Thread: The use of Partitive Case in Russian

Well, when in Russia I heard a lot of "Хочешь воды?" instead of "Хочешь воду?". That's the partitive in action, right?

Originally Posted by fabriciocarraro

Well, when in Russia I heard a lot of "Хочешь воды?" instead of "Хочешь воду?". That's the partitive in action, right?

Yes, exactly.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Yes, exactly.

No.

Originally Posted by Полуношник

No.

There are terminological contradictions among the linguists. Some define case through the grammatical function, others - through the morphology. If you like (or found in internet first) morphological approach, it does not mean that others are impossible. Don't confuse the way of description with the law of nature and formalism with the essence. If you don't like term "Partitive case" you can use "Partitive function of Genitive case". Which sometimes can have alternative morphological form (case) unlike other functions.

So, if the question was: does "Хочешь воды?" mean "Do you want some water?" than answer is simple "Yes". Independently of any smart system of cute words you prefer to describe that phenomenon.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

There are terminological contradictions among the linguists. Some define case through the grammatical function, others - through the morphology. If you like (or found in internet first) morphological approach, it does not mean that others are impossible. Don't confuse the way of description with the law of nature and formalism with the essence. If you don't like term "Partitive case" you can use "Partitive function of Genitive case". Which sometimes can have alternative morphological form (case) unlike other functions.

So, if the question was: does "Хочешь воды?" mean "Do you want some water?" than answer is simple "Yes". Independently of any smart system of cute words you prefer to describe that phenomenon.

I have three different computers. One for MasterRussian, another for Might of Magic and the third for VLC. They happen to share the same physical incarnation just by coincidence. Right.

Anyway, the phrase "Хочешь воды?" doesn't show up the existence of partitive in Russian. "Хочешь мышьяку?" makes the real difference between genitive and partitive. I mean the difference which does exist in nature rather then in descriptive approaches.



Out of curiosity: do the linguists of the "functional school" argue that English nouns have seven (or probably more) grammatical cases?

Originally Posted by Полуношник

I have...

Enjoy some rhetorics? Welcome!

Out of curiosity: If some evil hacker change on your computer the image in the shorthcut of VLC to the image of Might of Magic, will you insist on naming your VLC "Might of Magic"? The image on shortcut does exist in nature and it is definitely more important than what the program really do. Right?

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Enjoy some rhetorics? Welcome!

Out of curiosity: If some evil hacker change on your computer the image in the shorthcut of VLC to the image of Might of Magic, will you insist on naming your VLC "Might of Magic"? The image on shortcut does exist in nature and it is definitely more important than what the program really do. Right?

That is exactly my point. It somebody change a label or adds another one for an object it doesn't affect the object.

Originally Posted by fabriciocarraro

Well, when in Russia I heard a lot of "Хочешь воды?" instead of "Хочешь воду?". That's the partitive in action, right?

That's accusative vs. genitive problem. You can use either accusative or genitive in a such sentence with slight difference in the meaning. There is additional complication. Some nouns have the special form of genitive which is called partitive. "Вода" doesn't have it. You can see partitive in action when you hear "сахару" for example. There are three possible variants:
Хочешь сахар? - accusative. It refers to a substance as a class. Соли нет, хочешь сахар?
Хочешь сахара? - genitive. One of the multiple functions of genitive is to refer to some amount of a substance: "стакан воды", "ложка сахара".
Хочешь сахару? - partitive. It's the special form of genitive to refer to some amount of a substance: "ложка сахару".