то
pron. that, pronoun used to indicate a specific person or thing
So, if "то" means "that", and "что" also means "that"... what's the difference between them? Are they interchangeable?
i.e.
Я хочу сказать тебе что.....
Я хочу сказать тебе то...
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то
pron. that, pronoun used to indicate a specific person or thing
So, if "то" means "that", and "что" also means "that"... what's the difference between them? Are they interchangeable?
i.e.
Я хочу сказать тебе что.....
Я хочу сказать тебе то...
что is conjunction and an interrogative pronoun
то is а demonstrative pronoun
Что? - То!
What? - That!
the only correct form is Я хочу сказать тебе, что or if you like to рассусоливать, then Я хочу сказать тебе то, что
in Hebrew что is ma and she-
I like the way you form your reply by considering history of conversations :)
That doesn't make much sense in English. "I wanna tell you that, that..."Quote:
the only correct form is Я хочу сказать тебе, что or if you like to рассусоливать, then Я хочу сказать тебе то, что
We got "that" twice, that doesn't seem right.
Quote:
Что? - То!
What? - That!
Not sure I get it -- if it ends with a question it's a что and otherwise it's то?
in English of course it doesn't, quite a different language, therefore i'd not advise trying to base your understanding on literal translationQuote:
Originally Posted by Valda
but in Я хочу сказать тебе, что you only have one that just like in English so if another variant (то, что) confuses you, forget it, it's not that euphonical anyway
i was trying to show that что and то are not one and the same in Russian, although into English they could be translated with just one word thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Valda
here, in Hebrew то, что sounds like ma she-
ani lo shamati et ma she-hu amar - я не слышал то, что он сказал
alternatively
ani lo shamati ma hu amar - я не слышал, что он сказал
I'm not an expert, but I think English "that" has two different meanings:
1. this - that => это/этот/эта - то/тот/та
2. which => что
When you say something like: "I want to tell you that I like you", that essentially means:
I want to say a phrase, which would convey the meaning: "I like you". => Я хочу тебе сказать, что ты мне нравишься.
Alternatively, you could say: "I've been waiting to tell you that for a long time." => Я уже давно хотел тебе об этом сказать.
So, when you say something like: "Я давно хочу сказать тебе то, что ты уже сам знаешь." that would be a colloquial way of a better equivalent: "Я давно хотел сказать тебе о том, о чём ты уже сам знаешь." and that would mean: "I've been waiting for long to tell you something that you already know."
Hope it helps.
Yes, though I'm still not entirely sure how to differentiate them. I think my problem is the difficulty at grasping "demonstrative case"... in my mind it means "accusative case".. but how do you build a sentence with that? oohhh.....head hurts... ohhh..Russian...почему вы должно быт такый трудный?...Quote:
i was trying to show that что and то are not one and the same in Russian, although into English they could be translated with just one word that
i think you confuse things, there's no demonstrative case, it's the pronoun which is demonstrative тот/та/эти/это etc. because they point at objects out thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Valda
so wasn't Hebrew example helpful? i believe it illustrates the idea pretty accurately
as conjunction which is not что, but которыйQuote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
Oh, if that's really the case then "то/тот/та" ought to be way more frequent than "что"...Quote:
I'm not an expert, but I think English "that" has two different meanings:
1. this - that => это/этот/эта - то/тот/та
2. which => что
Поправьте меня, если я неправа
Quote:
Originally Posted by LXNDR
You said that:
"in Hebrew что is ma and she-"
What does it leave for то/тот/та?
no, because they're used for different purposes, it's like comparing apples and orangesQuote:
Originally Posted by Valda
try giving English examples where you think these should be used when translated into Russian
they have different purpose, maybe you missed thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Valda
ani lo shamati et ma she-hu amar - я не слышал то, что он сказал
alternatively
ani lo shamati ma hu amar - я не слышал, что он сказал
as demonstrative pronoun то/тот in Hebrew is hahu, та - hahi
tistakel, hine holechet ha-bahura hahi - смотри, вон идёт та девушка
Yes, if you want to translate that word for word. All I wanted, was to demonstrate the difference, since Valda was confused how "that" could be used for two different purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by LXNDR
I think that I saw him playing ping-pong at the beach -> тоQuote:
try giving English examples where you think these should be used when translated into Russian
The Americans used the A-Bomb, which still inflicts people today -> что
BTW you posted one second after me so there might be a reply you missed (replying to the Hebrew comment)
It rather would be the other way around. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Valda
Try to replace "that" with its ["то"] equivalent "something" and see what you could and could not say.
Pick the one which would be closer in meaning: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Valda
I think something I saw him playing ping-pong at the beach.
I think, which I saw him playing ping-pong at the beach.
Я думаю, что я видела как он играл в теннис на пляжеQuote:
Originally Posted by Valda
Американцы применили атомную бомбу, которая до сих пор вредит людям OR что до сих пор вредит людям (which is not very literal but understandable)
can you explain on what basis you decide where you're going to put что and where то?
____________________________________________
i think i figured out what your crux is :D
in Russian то is used to connect two clauses within one compound sentence only when their relationship is conditional and into English it translates as then or so
if you go, then i go too - если ты идёшь, то и я иду
you stay, so i do toо - если ты остаёшься, то и я остаюсь
here то is interchangeable with тогда which literally means then in English
That comment is perfect for my understanding, actually :) If those are really the definitions of то/та/тот then it's much easier than I thought. English dictionary did a disservice to me then, I needed a Hebrew-Russian dictionary for those!Quote:
they have different purpose, maybe you missed this
ani lo shamati et ma she-hu amar - я не слышал то, что он сказал
alternatively
ani lo shamati ma hu amar - я не слышал, что он сказал
as demonstrative pronoun то/тот in Hebrew is hahu, та - hahi
tistakel, hine holechet ha-bahura hahi - смотри, вон идёт та девушка
On the basis of "whether LXNDR says it's correct or not" ;)Quote:
Я думаю, что я видела как он играл в теннис на пляже
Американцы применили атомную бомбу, которая до сих пор вредит людям OR что до сих пор вредит людям (which is not very literal but understandable)
can you explain on what basis you decide where you're going to put что and where то?
I'm planning to use что for all purposes which just means "that" (in Hebrew "she", "ma")...
I'm planning to use то just for "that one" (in masculine form) (In Hebrew "hahu"), and та/тот with their genders accordingly
Ohh...so то has more definitions!? Yikes!Quote:
i think i figured out what your crux is
in Russian то is used to connect two clauses within one compound sentence only when their relationship is conditional and into English it translates as then or so
if you go, then i go too - если ты идёшь, то и я иду
you stay, so i do toо - если ты остаёшься, то и я остаюсь
here то is interchangeable with тогда which literally means then in English
Thanks for letting me know! Any more definitions for то I should be aware of?
BTW if we translate it word by word....Quote:
ani lo shamati et ma she-hu amar - я не слышал то, что он сказал
ani (Я) lo (не) shamati (слушал) et (что) ma (что) she-hu (то) amar (сказал)... and according to you - я не слышал то, что он сказал
so if I turn it into math, 2 times что followed by то becomes то, что... ;) little wonder why so many russians are mathematicians and engineers!
J/K-- I know I am being too literate in my comparison of languages....
in my time i read to tatters the dictionary of Baruch Podolski, it's two-parted Hebrew-Russian and vice versa, but they're not completely identical in their vocabularyQuote:
Originally Posted by Valda
well, sounds good enough for me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Valda
doing so hopefully you'll eventually be able to get to the bottom of thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Valda
not that i can think of at the moment :) and more material may just confuse you moreQuote:
Originally Posted by Valda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valda
ani (Я) lo (не) shamati (слышал) et ma (то) she-hu (что он) amar (сказал)
et isn't a pronoun but a direct object preposition so it's not counted
Oh, an actual "book" dictionary? People still use that? Eep, that's terrible. I'll stick to my electronics ones if you don't mind :)Quote:
in my time i read to tatters the dictionary of Baruch Podolski, it's two-parted Hebrew-Russian and vice versa, but they're not completely identical in their vocabulary
Good point.Quote:
ani (Я) lo (не) shamati (слышал) et ma (то) she-hu (что он) amar (сказал)
et isn't a pronoun but a direct object preposition so it's not counted
Thanks for all the corrections
:)
it was before computers became mobile and portable somewhere in the 19th century :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Valda
maybe there's an electronic version of that
Please watch the comma. The comma separates two things in each sentence
Я хочу сказать тебе, что ты мне нравишься -> I want to tell that I like you
Я хочу сказать тебе то, что говорил вчера -> I want tell you the same thing I told you yesterday. In this sentence "то" is basically shortened form of "это", IMHO
it's not shorthand, то and это are two different demonstrative pronouns like that and thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Doomer
the use of то in compound sentences is the only norm, it's irreplaceable by это even if you add direct object
Я хочу повторить тебе тот анекдот, что рассказывал вчера
NOT
Я хочу повторить тебе этот анекдот, что рассказывал вчера
occasionally you may hear people say so but it's incorrect and usually occurs in situations where they intend to end the statement at the comma, but then decide to add some clarification
"То Ипполиту Матвеевичу казалось, что он никогда не покидал Старгорода, то Старгород представлялся ему местом совершенно незнакомым."
Илья Ильф и Евгений Петров. Двенадцать стульев (1956г.)
Another use of "то"?
yezzirQuote:
Originally Posted by Seraph
one time..., another time
only that '12 chairs' first publication is dated to 1928
In idiomatic Eng: "One moment it seemed to I.M. ... the next moment ..." Instant, moment, minute etc. more or less interchangeable.
The date is from the lib.ru version, refers to date edited or something, not original publication.
Я нашла эту фразу в тексте перевода ( Ilf and Petrov. The Twelve Chairs) : "At one moment Ippolit Matveyevich felt he had never left Stargorod, and the next moment it was like a place completely unfamiliar to him."Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraph
Ещё была шутка: Японца зовут - Тояма Токанава (Дорога там ужасная: то яма, то канава).
If I want to say "not only that, but"... I say - "Не только то, что"?
Не только то, но и это.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valda
Не только тот сосед придёт, но и этот.
Мне нужна не только эта книга, но и та.
Gotcha, thanks!