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Thread: Travelling by vehicle

  1. #1
    JackBoni
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    Travelling by vehicle

    Здравствуйте,

    When specifying how you are travelling to a location, is it usual to use a prepositional construction, or an instrumental one? I seem to remember that it's possible to use both, however I think that there must be a difference.

    Каждый день я езжу на поезде на работу.
    Каждый день я езжу поездом на работу.

    Мне нравится ездить на машине в Лондон.
    Мне нравится ездить машиной в Лондон.

    Я еду на велосипеде в город.
    Я еду велосипедом в город.

    Where is the difference, if there is one at all? I suspect it's stylistic, or so.

    Спасибо за помощь
    Джек

  2. #2
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    Re: Travelling by vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Каждый день я езжу на поезде на работу.
    Каждый день я езжу поездом на работу.
    Мне нравится ездить на машине в Лондон.
    Мне нравится ездить машиной в Лондон.
    Я еду на велосипеде в город.
    Я еду велосипедом в город.
    Only "ехать поездом" is acceptable in certain situations (although it doesn't work in all contexts, and many people prefer "ехать/ездить на поезде" anyway).
    "Ехать машиной" and "ехать велосипедом" are both incorrect.

  3. #3
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    While it’s quite natural to use the instrumental with “поездом,” it’s almost impossible with other words in your examples. When you tell us «Мне нравится ездить машиной в Лондон» it might be understood either ungrammatical or grammatical in a different sense. Say, “машина” is your condition/unusal appearance/anything else: “I go to London like a car." This, certainly, will make people's faces listening to you like . The reason why “поездом” sounds all right in the case, I think, is that a train is considered as public transport. You can easily substitute it with “автобусом,” “самолётом,” “паромом” and so on. Well, “машина,” I assume, can fit the pattern sometimes, but the usaul way is the prepositional case.
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  4. #4
    JackBoni
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    Thanks. So really, the only usual construction is на with the prepositional? Are there any other forms with which the instrumental is acceptable? According to a grammar book that I have, there are certain expressions that combine vehicles and the instrumental, and apparently they are considered acceptable. The examples given are:

    автобусом
    автомобилем
    поездом
    самолётом

    Would those be acceptable? For example, ехать автобусом, ехать автомобилем? I can't think of an example with which you could use самолётом, or indeed на самолёте. Ехать на самолёте I presume would be wrong, because you летать/лететь на самолёте. But you wouldn't need to mention this, because if you're flying, it's fairly obvious it's by plane, isn't it?

    Jack

  5. #5
    JackBoni
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    “I go to London like a car."
    ездить/ехать машиной, although I now accept that it does not exist in any normal context, would not mean this, anyway, I don't think. Я обычно езжу машиной в Лондон" would have the same meaning as the prepositional construction, in my eyes. I.e "I go to London by car. Still wrong, though?



    Jack

  6. #6
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    Would those be acceptable? For example, ехать автобусом, ехать автомобилем?
    "Ехать автобусом" is possible, "ехать автомобилем" is wrong, as well as "ехать самолётом".

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Я обычно езжу машиной в Лондон"
    Yes, still wrong. Correct is "на машине".
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  7. #7
    JackBoni
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    So the only safe option is the prepositional case, as the instrumental constructions don't seem to have a pattern. I'll stick to that, then. Unless there are any cases where the instrumental is somehow preferred?

    I only say that because Russian grammar seems to have a crazy amount of exceptions to it.

    Jack

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    So the only safe option is the prepositional case, as the instrumental constructions don't seem to have a pattern. I'll stick to that, then. Unless there are any cases where the instrumental is somehow preferred?

    I only say that because Russian grammar seems to have a crazy amount of exceptions to it.

    Jack
    I think that instrumental case can only be used if you are speaking about using a conventional method of transportation rather than an individual vehicle, aircraft, train, etc.

    Hence, we can say "поехать поездом" meaning "to go by rail." You can say "Поехать автобусом" if you are talking about using a public bus line, but if someone owns the bus in question, he or she would will be more likely to say "я поеду на автобусе (а не на грузовике)".

    I would imagine that if there was a regular transportation route served by cars instead of buses, people would start saying "поехать машиной".

  9. #9
    JackBoni
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    So, these two constructions are not just random; they seem to represent two completely separate concepts. That never really occurred to me.

    Я обычно езжу на поезде на работу.
    Они всегда ездят поездом на роботу.

    Мы никогда не ездим на автобусе на работу.
    Мы никогда не ездим автобусом на роботу.

    For most others, only the prepositional construction is possible, by the sound of it.

    Джек

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Я обычно езжу на поезде на работу.
    This word order means that when you take train, you usually go to work.
    If you want to say that you usually go to work by train, you need another word order:
    Я обычно езжу на работу на поезде.

    Они всегда ездят поездом на работу.
    "Ехать поездом" is OK in some cases, for example: "Не хочу лететь самолётом. Лучше поеду поездом" (this sounds perfect). But in the sentence above it doesn't sound that fine to me. "На поезде" is still better here.

    Мы никогда не ездим на автобусе на работу.
    This means you never use the bus for getting to work. You are only allowed to use it for taking for a ride...

    Мы никогда не ездим автобусом на работу.
    No, really, "автобусом" sounds bad here; I don't know why. Maybe because the prepositional case is OK only for a one-time action. I'm not sure though.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  11. #11
    JackBoni
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    Thank for all your help. It is much clearer now than it was a few hours ago.

    Thanks again

    Jack

  12. #12
    Старший оракул
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    Quote Originally Posted by translations.nm.ru
    I think that instrumental case can only be used if you are speaking about using a conventional method of transportation rather than an individual vehicle, aircraft, train, etc.

    Hence, we can say "поехать поездом" meaning "to go by rail." You can say "Поехать автобусом" if you are talking about using a public bus line, but if someone owned the bus in question, he or she would be more likely to say "я поеду на автобусе (а не на грузовике)".
    I would imagine that if there was a regular transportation route served by cars instead of buses, people would start saying "поехать машиной".
    Эта теория, кажется, всё расставляет на свои места. Класс!

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