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Thread: Saying you're from somewhere

  1. #1
    Увлечённый спикер
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    Saying you're from somewhere

    The other day, someone said моя семья с украины, meaning that their family was from Ukraine.

    1) What does the 'с' stand for in this sentence?

    2) This is in genitive, correct?

    3) Can you say this with other words? It doesn't just apply to that country?

    For example could you say 'я с Америки' ?

    4) What's the difference between из украины and с украины ?

    спасибоооо :3

  2. #2
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    if i don't mistake, Ukrine in russian is the only country which may using with two different preposition to the same mean:

    All below sentence are correct:
    Я живу на Украине (предложный падеж).
    Я живу в Украине (предложный падеж).
    Я с Украины. (родительный падеж)
    Я из Украины. (родительный падеж)

    For example could you say 'я с Америки' ?
    You will understand, but nobody say "Я с Америки".

  3. #3
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    That's a very good question. Just rececntly heard a similar question on radio.

    Usually the pr. ИЗ is used when the country (or federal state within a country with clear borders) or town is meant. So strictly speaking the correct sentence is

    Я из Украины. Моя семья из Украины. - any country - Я из России, Я из Германии и т.д. And also Они из Баварии must be used (because Бавария is Bundesland which is a separate region within a larger country Germany). Я из Москвы - because it's a city and the borders are quite clear.

    But when they talk about 'some location, mountain region, lake region, river, sea, island, peninsula - where you don't really have borders or it's a part of a bigger geographical body the preposition C must be used in most cases.

    Examples where C MUST be used: Я с Урала (some place in the area where Urals mountains are), Я с Волги, Я с Кольского полуострова (peninsula is part of bigger continent), Мы с Камчатки, Он с Аляски (peninsula again), but Я из Сибири. As you get more fluent in Russian you don't have problems with using the correct preposition here.

    But some native speakers of Russian use C where it really should be ИЗ - these must be some dialects, especially South of Russia, and regions close to Ukraine, you see this might the influence of the Ukranian language where the form is this - Я з України. Я з Бангладешу. Я з Росії.
    And also some speakers with poor knowledge of grammar (there are many of them in Russia and Russian speaking countries) might use C instead of ИЗ.

    So the correct usage is Моя семья из Украины. But Моя семья с Украины sounds like a dialectical variant with slight deviation from correct usage. The influence of the Ukranian language in this family is more than obvious, so it's quite normal to speak for them like that.

    At the same time Украина (when part of the USSR) was understood as area, region, like a geographical location (not independent country like today), so this C-usage might have been quite common during the USSR. So you see in case with Ukraine you really have several factors at play (Ukranian language, history of the USSR)

    2) This is in genitive, correct? - answer - correct.


    you can also say Моя семья родом из Украины. Мы родом из Украины - meaning we were born in Ukraine.


    3) ..... For example could you say 'я с Америки' ? - no, only Я из Америки (usually that would mean USA, for shortness). But you MUST say Я с Гавайских островов - the isles are understood as some geographical body, or Я с Аляски (peninsula as part of a bigger continent)


    I hope it all makes sense, it's something off the top of my head,
    I can elaborate on that and provide more and better examples if you need.
    As I said, linguistically, this is an interesting question.


    Звездочёт and kburr like this.

  4. #4
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    So the correct usage is Моя семья из Украины. But Моя семья с Украины sounds like a dialectical variant with slight deviation from correct usage. The influence of the Ukranian language in this family is more than obvious, so it's quite normal to speak for them like that.
    gramota.ru: Горячие вопросы

    Как правильно: на Украине или в Украине?

    Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.

    «В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства, поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69).

    Однако литературная норма русского языка, согласно которой следует говорить и писать на Украине, – результат исторического развития языка на протяжении нескольких столетий. Сочетаемость предлогов в и на с определенными словами объясняется исключительно традицией. Ср.: в школе, в институте, в аптеке, в отделе, но: на заводе, на почте, на курорте, на складе и т. д. Литературная норма не может измениться в одночасье из-за каких-либо политических процессов.
    kburr likes this.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Звездочёт View Post
    Agree, the 2010 dictionary of names http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=x...B8%D0%BD%D0%B0 says it must be "с Украины".

    So моя семья с украины - this variant should be used according to the dictionary.

    My linguistic intuition - going a bit ahead of the dictionary (as I think would be the case with many other contemporary Russian speakers) has chosen из Украины, because today it's an independent state and you want to say из Украины (at least that what I want to say by default).
    For example, I would say Семья Петрова происходит из Украины - though this is still not correct according to this dictionary.

    But I would never say в Украине , I would say на Украине - however this question was NOT asked by the topic starter. Thus, I automatically choose на Украине, but из/c Украины - my mind is split between tradition and the modern situation that Ukraine is an independent state.

    (Notice I never use the article when I write 'Ukraine', which is also my preference as a speaker of English - non-native though, but I think this variant is correct).





  6. #6
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    My linguistic intuition - going a bit ahead of the dictionary (as I think would be the case with many other contemporary Russian speakers) has chosen из Украины
    It's not result of intuition, it's result of mass media intervention. Many politics and especially diplomats says "из Украины" and "в Украину". Even Lavrov does that! So we hear this variant often and many people really think that it's correct. No, it is not. When I studied at institute our teacher warned us if you take an exam, don't say "из Украины" and "в Украину" because it's a mistake.

    my mind is split between tradition and the modern situation that Ukraine is an independent state
    If we have to be guided by the political situation to select an prepositions, how we should say:
    "Кому на Руси жить хорошо?" - traditional variant
    or
    "Кому в Руси жить хорошо?" - variant, wich bases on modern political situation.
    Lampada likes this.

  7. #7
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    Wonderful! I understand - thanks so much. Also, English isn't your native tongue? I wouldn't have guessed

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