Thread: Question regarding reflexive endings

I have one question regarding reflexive endings 'ся' and 'сь'. As far as I know when given word ends on consonat then 'ся' ending is used e.g. 'говориться'. On the other hand when word ends on vowel then short ending 'сь' is used, e.g. 'вестись'.

But, do I understand it well that participles are exception to that rule in such a way that in case of participle one should always use 'ся' ending no metter if it ends on vowel or consonat? Some examples:

попавшиеся
занявшаяся
жалевшееся

If so, should 'ся' ending be pronounced in such cases exactly in the same way as in non-participle words, i.e. like 'saa'?

Originally Posted by glukoz

But, do I understand it well that participles are exception to that rule in such a way that in case of participle one should always use 'ся' ending no metter if it ends on vowel or consonant? Some examples:

попавшиеся
занявшаяся
жалевшееся

If so, should 'ся' ending be pronounced in such cases exactly in the same way as in non-participle words, i.e. like 'saa'?

Yep, you're exactly right on all points -- both in writing and pronunciation, -ся at the end of a participle stays -ся, and is not "reduced" in any way to -сь after a vowel.

I would also point to such possible examples as Он показал учащемуся... ("He showed the learner/student..."), where учащийся is a present active participle that has taken on an independent life of its own as a noun.

P.S. Don't forget that the past passive participle -- which is far more common in speech than the other three types of participle -- can't be formed from -ся verbs. In other words, it's not very often that you'd actually have to worry about the pronunciation of -ся in a past active participle such as занявшаяся, since you'd mainly encounter it in formal writing, not everyday conversation. In speech, short-form PPPs such as написано ("it has been written") are heard all the time, but these would never have a -ся.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

P.S. Don't forget that the past passive participle -- which is far more common in speech than the other three types of participle -- can't be formed from -ся verbs. In other words, it's not very often that you'd actually have to worry about the pronunciation of -ся in a past active participle such as занявшаяся, since you'd mainly encounter it in formal writing, not everyday conversation. In speech, short-form PPPs such as написано ("it has been written") are heard all the time, but these would never have a -ся.

Thank You for answer.

Do You also mean that present active participle is rarely used in spoken language as well? I am asking about this because in my native language (Polish) present AP is often used in speech as well as in writing. If it is the case, then how would You formulate following exemplary sentence in spoken Russian (without present AP):

Я не люблю людей делающих плохие вещи.

Originally Posted by glukoz

Do You also mean that present active participle is rarely used in spoken language as well? If it is the case, then how would You formulate following exemplary sentence in spoken Russian (without present AP):

Я не люблю людей делающих плохие вещи.

May I answer? I'd say that both present and past active participles are not often used in spoken Russian. Attributive subordinate clauses are used instead.

Я не люблю людей, которые поступают плохо.
Я не люблю людей, которые совершают плохие поступки.

Originally Posted by glukoz

Thank You for answer.

Do You also mean that present active participle is rarely used in spoken language as well? I am asking about this because in my native language (Polish) present AP is often used in speech as well as in writing. If it is the case, then how would You formulate following exemplary sentence in spoken Russian (without present AP):

Я не люблю людей делающих плохие вещи.

Participle construction like in your example in speech most probably would be rearranged as a complex sentence.

Я не люблю людей, которые делают плохие вещи.
Я не люблю, когда люди делают плохие вещи.
Я не люблю людей, если они делают плохие вещи.

Single PA participles are used in spoken Russian often, but yes, native speakers still prefer alternative ways.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Я не люблю людей, которые делают плохие вещи.

Плохие вещи - это плохие стулья или плохие столы?

Originally Posted by Lena

Плохие вещи - это плохие стулья или плохие столы?

Hmm, can 'вещь' noun be used in material meaning only? If so, it has narrower usage than English 'thing', right?

Originally Posted by glukoz

Hmm, can 'вещь' noun be used in material meaning only? If so, it has narrower usage than English 'thing', right?

No, it can be used in both senses as well as in English. That was a kind of a wordplay around that ambiguity.

Ok, understood.

Thank You all for answers!

Originally Posted by glukoz

Hmm, can 'вещь' noun be used in material meaning only? If so, it has narrower usage than English 'thing', right?

Yes, I would say that. I think that everyone would understand the phrase "Я не люблю, когда ты делаешь плохие вещи", but it is illiterate. I wouldn't even recommend you to remember that. I hardly-hardly ever hear that.
Dla czego pan chce uczyc jezyk rosyiski?

Dla czego pan chce uczyc jezyk rosyiski?

Мне русская культура очень нравится: фильмы, музыка, литература итд. Вообще восточные страны интересны для меня и я хотел бы поехать в Россию когда-та.

Originally Posted by glukoz

Мне русская культура очень нравится: фильмы, музыка, литература итд. Вообще восточные страны интересны для меня и я хотел бы поехать в Россию когда-та.

*когда-нибудь. Когда-то is used when you speak about past time.
*мне интересны восточные страны
*Russia cannot be referred to as восточные страны. Japan and China may be called восточные страны though no one says that. Страны Восточной Европы or восточно-европейские страны, but it depends on where the speaker is as he says that. If you are in Poland that makes no sense.