Past passive participle

Here is а question on this matter.
Appearing ё for e. Повернýть -> повёрнутый, повернута (short form), ( and in verbs like развернýть), that I suppose stressed повéрнута. In the dictionary it presents as a rule in verbs like these, but my problem is why appears this ё not being in its stem nor in past; just obviously in present 2nd person sing. I have no explanation for it, save of course: Roma locuta est, causa finita ;-). Thank you.

it appears to combine the traits of both (c) and (d) types from the list Passive Participles | Russian language grammar on RussianLearn.com

since there're tons of exceptions from the rule in Russian this could be one of them

then i believe the rules were defined in hindsight to put the language in a kind of logical framework, but since the language itself didn't develop according to any set of strict rules or strict logic, exceptions occur and more often in a such complex language as Russian

also the -ут of the infinitive isn't dropped in the participle

another one is подчеркнуть - подчеркнул - подчёркнутый

it also may be related to consonants junction -веРН- and -чеРКН-


another idea is to check whether imperfect infinitive of this verb can receive ё

подчеркнуть - подчёркивать - fits

повернуть - поворачивать - seemingly doesn't fit, but there's a folk form повёртывать, which is admittedly rare and doesn't go with every prefix

Повернýть -> повёрнутый, повёрнута

I think it is connected in some way with stress migration, which in its turn connected with word length.

Remember that ё in Russian is always stressed.

Thanks, LXNDR and it-ogo, for your help. I'll study your answers carefully.

"it appears to combine the traits of both (c) and (d) types from the list Passive Participles | Russian language grammar on RussianLearn.com"
This link is very very usefull. I translate it and put in my folder on verbs. Thank you.

here's another one

застегнуть - застёгивать - застёгнутый


i think i figured a tentative rule for these verbs, not sure if it's any philological revelation though :smiley:

this pattern applies to verbs with -нуть ending in perfect infinitive form where -н- is not the part of the stem
it's rather not clear cut (like in the case of согнуть) but generally it's true

sometimes instead of -ё- the participle receives -о- which is a similar sound, only in this case you can't rely on the verb's imperfect infinitive form for guidance

взболтнуть - взбалтывать - взболтанный (not взболтнутый however)
проткнуть - протыкать - проткнутый (not a literary word, but grammatically correct)

suffix -нуть signifies a momentary action and many verbs can receive it

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Originally Posted by radomir

Here is а question on this matter.
Appearing ё for e. Повернýть -> повёрнутый, повернута (short form), ( and in verbs like развернýть), that I suppose stressed повéрнута. In the dictionary it presents as a rule in verbs like these, but my problem is why appears this ё not being in its stem nor in past; just obviously in present 2nd person sing. I have no explanation for it, save of course: Roma locuta est, causa finita ;-). Thank you.

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1. повёрнута
2. For the purpose of learning Russian as a foreign language I would recommend to consider it the other way around. It could make more sense if you just consider ё as the default vowel in this verb and memorize it as "повёрнуть". Yes, there is no such a word in Russian. But the only thing you need is to apply the rule: ё is always replaced by е when it is not stressed (both in spelling and in pronunciation).
So, you get: повернуть - я повернул - повёрнутый; развернуть - я развернул - развёрнутый - развёртка; отвернуть - я отвернул - отвёрнутый - отвёртка, завернуть - завёрнут, свернуть - свёрнут etc. I cannot think of a single word (not only a verb, but a noun as well) with "вёрн/вёрт" root where it is pronounced with е in a stressed position.
3. Unfortunately, the most of printed text in Russian fail to distinguish ё and е in spelling. You cannot do anything with that, it's just a tradition (ё is not considered mandatory by most of people).

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Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

Unfortunately, the most of printed text in Russian fail to distinguish ё and е in spelling. You cannot do anything with that, it's just a tradition (ё is not considered mandatory by most of people).

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I have a conspiracy theory :)
It was done to make it harder for foreigners to learn Russian
Just joking :)

i think the vowel Ё is too obscene, that's why

but yeah, i overlooked the simple detail Боб Уайтман pointed out, if there's -e- in the stem of the -нуть verb, it will transform into -ё- in the participle which will receive stress as it-ogo suggested

there are all kinds of words where e is really a hidden o but you don't know it until stress reveals it.

село жена зерно имя (!) стекло

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Originally Posted by LXNDR

i think the vowel Ё is too obscene, that's why

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I think it's much simpler - letter ё located awfully inconvenient on a standard qwerty keyboard (on the "~" key), people just skip it because it is too inconvenient to type

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Originally Posted by Doomer

I think it's much simpler - letter ё located awfully inconvenient on a standard qwerty keyboard (on the "~" key), people just skip it because it is too inconvenient to type

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i kinda agree, consciously i never skip ё but sometimes when i type quickly i find myself having typed е instead and get upset lol

but that doesn't explain why they replace it with e in print

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Originally Posted by LXNDR

but that doesn't explain why they replace it with e in print

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You think originals come from different keyboards? :)

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Originally Posted by Doomer

You think originals come from different keyboards? :)

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from different keyboardists ;-)