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Thread: "I hope you had a good morning" - Я надеюсь, что у тебя была доброе утро ?

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    Властелин Valda's Avatar
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    "I hope you had a good morning" - Я надеюсь, что у тебя была доброе утро ?

    "I hope you had a good morning"

    Я надеюсь, что у тебя была доброе утро?


    Does this sound correct?
    "Особенно упорно надо заниматься тем, кто ничего не знает." - Като Ломб

    "В один прекрасный день все ваши подспудные знания хлынут наружу. Ощущения при этом замечательные, уверяю вас." -Кто-то

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    Почтенный гражданин Dmitry Khomichuk's Avatar
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    было, and it is better to say хорошее for good in this case

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valda View Post
    "I hope you had a good morning"

    Я надеюсь, что у тебя было доброе утро?


    Does this sound correct?
    Well, grammatically this is absolutely correct. But it sounds very unnatural, we never say it like that.

    First: "доброе" literally means "kind". When related to time, it is only used in fixed expressions like "Доброе утро!" - it is a wish, it means you wish someone "a kind morning". In other contexts it does not work. You should use "хорошее" instead, for example: "Сегодня хорошее утро" - "It's a nice morning today".

    So, your choice is: "Я надеюсь, что у тебя было хорошее утро?"

    Second: However, this expression would only be appropriate if you REALLY want to know if someone's morning was good, it implies you have some reason to doubt that your interlocutor's morning was good. Otherwise, it would be very strange why you ask this question.
    The verb "надеюсь" underlines your state of doubtness, as if you were afraid something might have been wrong with your interlocutor this morning.

    If you just wish to show your care of someone's life, the best choice is just to ask "Как дела?" or "Как ты?", "У тебя всё хорошо?". The question like "I hope you had a good morning" can be used in very specific situations only.

    This is already a cultural point. In Russian culture, when you ask someone "How are you?" (Как дела?), it is understood literally, and the person will tell you a story about his/her recent affairs.
    It is not customary to ask everybody "как дела?" in our culture. It is OK to ask your relatives, your friends or someone you know well. Also, a doctor may ask this question to a patient, or a teacher may ask it to a student. It shows you really care about your friend's health/life/business etc. And it is expected to get a honest answer, not just "I'm fine!" all the times as it occurs in the US, for example.

    PS Yes, I did not notice one mistake: "было", not "была"!

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    Just a few examples for you to show the cultural difference

    A typical dialog between a purchaser and a shop assistant.

    In US:
    - Hi! (informal!)
    - Hi!
    - How are you doing?
    - I'm fine. How are you?
    - I'm fine too! May I help you?
    - Yes, I'd like ...

    In Russia:
    - Здравствуйте! (formal!!!)
    - Здравствуйте! Что вы хотите? (What do you want?)
    - Мне нужно... (I need ...)
    No "как дела"!!! It would be completely strange in this situation!!!

    A typical dialog between friends.

    In US:
    - Hi!
    - Hi!
    - How are you doing?
    - I'm fine!
    - Great!
    - How are you?
    - I'm very nice!
    - ... (meaningful conversation starts here)

    In Russia:
    - Привет! (informal!)
    - Привет!
    - Как дела? (meaningful conversation starts here)
    - Да вроде всё хорошо! Вчера я ходил в бассейн. Потом посмотрел новый фильм! (Well, looks like everything's nice! Yesterday I was at a swimming pool. Then I saw a new movie!) - А как у тебя? (And what's about you?)
    - У меня не очень. Кажется, я заболел. Горло болит. (I'm not so nice. It seems I feel sick. I have a sore throat.)

    I hope you get what I mean

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    Властелин Valda's Avatar
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    Thanks!

    PS Yes, I did not notice one mistake: "было", not "была"!
    Gotcha I just thought since she is female to use было.. but I guess it depends on "what is good" (like morning in our case) and not "who" is good.

    Well, grammatically this is absolutely correct. But it sounds very unnatural, we never say it like that.
    I understand your explanation, but I was planning to say it to a very close friend of mine (Russian) who was sick, and I didn't manage to catch her in the morning.

    I take your point on " хорошее утро" instead.

    So, yes, it was not a regular greeting Thank you for pointing it out though.
    "Особенно упорно надо заниматься тем, кто ничего не знает." - Като Ломб

    "В один прекрасный день все ваши подспудные знания хлынут наружу. Ощущения при этом замечательные, уверяю вас." -Кто-то

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valda View Post
    Gotcha I just thought since she is female to use было.. but I guess it depends on "what is good" (like morning in our case) and not "who" is good.
    Yes! In the Russian sentence "У тебя было хорошее утро" the subject is "утро", and it is neuter. So, the verb agrees with the subject: "Утро было".

    In the English sentence "You had a good morning" the subject is "you".

    But note: there is no "had" in the Russian version! There is "was" instead. Think of it this way: "A good morning was at you".

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    I was planning to say it to a very close friend of mine (Russian) who was sick, and I didn't manage to catch her in the morning.
    Native speakers, how about something like "А всё тебе ладно/нормально было сегодня утром?" -- literally, "Was everything okay for you this morning?"

    Or, if the context is not about sickness but you simply want to know whether the morning in general was enjoyable, what about a construction like "Надеюсь, что утро приятно проходило" ("I hope that the morning passed along pleasantly")??

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    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    "Утро добрым не бывает" (народная мудрость). Так что мы едва ли зададим такой вопрос. Но, вообще, можно спросить "как прошёл период_времени?" (все надежды, что прошёл хорошо - подразумеваются, в вопросе слова "хорошо","приятно",... не фигурируют!)

    Так что,
    - Как прошло утро?
    - Нормально. Выпил 3 чашки кофе, и мне полегчало.
    Хотя, если подумать, мы можем поинтересоваться и "Как спалось?" и "Хорошо спалось?" (то, что это вопрос, а не утверждение, определяется по интонации). То есть, иногда всё-таки в вопросе содержится намёк на положительный ответ.

    И предостережение американцам: утро в России начинается где-то в 4 часа, а не после 12:00 a.m.
    Расходясь после вечеринки в час ночи (at 1:00 a.m.), следует говорить "Спокойной ночи", а не "С добрым утром"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    Native speakers, how about something like "А всё тебе ладно/нормально было сегодня утром?" -- literally, "Was everything okay for you this morning?"
    Unfortunately that is unnatural.
    1. "Ладно" in sense of "хорошо/нормально" is very old-fashioned.
    In the modern language, "ладно" is only used when you agree to obey someone's request or someone's proposal. It expresses your concession to someone else:
    - Приходи завтра утром ко мне.
    - Ладно, приду.

    - А всё-таки я заберу у тебя эту книгу.
    - Ладно, забирай.

    As to the case when "ладно" = "хорошо", I can only think of one example:
    "Он ладно сложен" - he is well-built (physically), but this is almost a fixed expression, and it itself sounds old-fashioned.


    "А всё тебе нормально было сегодня утром?" - bad wording. Better: "У тебя всё нормально было сегодня утром?" or even better: "У тебя утром всё нормально было"? (сегодня is clear from the context, I would prefer to omit it).

    This one is natural, but again, if only you have some reason to predict that he/she might have had some problems this morning.


    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    Or, if the context is not about sickness but you simply want to know whether the morning in general was enjoyable, what about a construction like "Надеюсь, что утро приятно проходило" ("I hope that the morning passed along pleasantly")??

    "Надеюсь, что утро приятно проходило" - bad wording. Better: "Надеюсь, что утро прошло приятно" (note the perfective verb!)
    This one can only be used, if you know that he/she should have had something very exceptional this morning. For example, you know he/she was planning to have a great dating with his/her beloved in a nice expensive restaurant this morning!

    In this case, yes, welcome to ask "Надеюсь, у тебя утро прошло приятно!"

    In other cases, I agree, you can easily say:
    "Как прошёл день?" (after the end of a business day)
    "Как спалось?" (after waking up in the morning)
    etc.
    "Как прошло утро?" is not often used, sinse it means you ask someone about his/her morning (not a whole day!), so you mean only the period of time before waking up and the noon... But if you know the person had some appointment in the morning, then yes, "Как прошло утро?" would suit fine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxmixiv View Post
    утро в России начинается где-то в 4 часа
    I disagree.
    In Russian, the concepts of «утро, день, вечер и ночь» are not fixed. They depend on a person’s daily schedule, and different people may have different opinions when the night ends and the morning starts.

    For those who are accustomed to waking up early, yes, 4:00 am can already be considered the morning. But not for everyone! As to me personally, I would say 4:00 am is still night time. Sometimes my friends and I have weekend parties which end later than 4:00 am, and we would not say that it’s already morning! Although, if I go to bed at 6:00 am, I would admit that it is a morning time. So, psychologically "my morning" starts somewhere between 4:00 am and 6:00 am (the border is not clearly defined), and "my day" starts somewhere between 12:00 pm and 1:00 pm.

    Other people would say differently, though.

    But the most common concept that «утро» is the period between someone’s wake up and the noon.

    Now, you can see why «Как прошло утро?» is not a popular question in Russia. What do the most people usually do in the morning? They wake up, wash, clean their teeth, have some breakfast at home, or just a cup of tea/coffee, and leave for their work. And then they start their business activity, and … and it’s already the noon!

    That’s why it is meaningless to ask «Как прошло утро?» in a normal situation (without a specific context).
    On the other hand, it is perfectly fine to ask «Как прошёл день?» (when being asked in the evening time, вечером).
    And it is perfectly fine to ask «Как прошёл вчерашний вечер?» (when being asked the next day).

    And yes, "день" is usually the period between the noon and the end of business (the end of "день" can vary from 5:00 pm to 6:00 pm or even 7:00 pm for some people).
    "Вечер" is usually one's free time (after the end of business and before going to bed). Usually "вечер" ends at 11:00 pm, for some people -at 12:00 am, for others - even at 10:00 pm. We never use "ночь" for "вечер".
    That explains why many Russians rarely use the English expression "tonight" although they understand what it means. They usually stick to saying "this evening", including myself

    And "ночь" is normally the time for sleep. So, for me "ночь" is between 12:00 am and 5:00 am or 6:00 am.

    To put it more accurately, this concept is not only linked to someone's daily schedule, it is somewhat of interrelation between:
    - the daily schedule on the one hand,
    - and the daily sun cycle on the other hand (so "ночь" is still associated with the dark time, "день" - with the sunny time, "утро" is somehow related to the sunrise and beginning of the sunny time, but not exactly, "вечер" is related to the sunset and twilight, but again, does not exactly coincide).
    So, two factors matter of how someone understands утро, день, вечер и ночь.

    And also have in mind: Russia is located mostly in high geographical latitudes, that leads to the big differences between day duration and night duration throughout the year (in winter the sunrise is late - 9 - 10 am, and the sunset is very early, it can be just after 4 pm in December; in summer the sunrise is very early - after 3 am in June, and the sunset is late - 10 - 11 pm). That is why you cannot fully rely on the daily sun cycle.

    And that is why in the summer time I would agree 4:00 am is already morning, even if I am not in the bed yet. But in the winter I would never say 4:00 am is a morning, it is definitely night time to me.
    However, sometimes when I go for a business trip, I have an early morning flight, and I have to wake up at 3:30 am to be in time at the airport for the check-in. In this case, I say 3:30 is the morning!

    Sorry for the long post, it’s just an interesting subject to discuss.

    When I first time was in the US, it surprised me a lot to hear "this morning" just a few minutes after the midnight!
    And finally, a question to native English speakers:
    I have never understood what is the difference between "evening" and "night" in English. It seems as you can use "night" for the whole evening period.

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    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    Боб, haven't you noticed, that phrase "в четыре утра" could be heard more often than "в четыре ночи"?
    And it is very unlikely to encounter "в пять часов ночи"?
    I agree, of course, that there is no clear boundary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxmixiv View Post
    Боб, haven't you noticed, that phrase "в четыре утра" could be heard more often than "в четыре ночи"?
    And it is very unlikely to encounter "в пять часов ночи"?
    I agree, of course, that there is no clear boundary.
    Hmm... Nope, I usually hear "в четыре ночи", at least among my friends. I'm a night owl by myself, I'm used to falling asleep late (after 2:00), and waking up late, too Since I have to work with companies in the US. Maybe that explains why

    Yes, I did hear some people saying "в четыре утра", but that's a bit strange for me.
    However, it's not a reason for arguing. I agree opinions may differ.

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    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    I too don't insist in relation to 4am.
    But at least, agree that 5am is уже утро

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман View Post
    And finally, a question to native English speakers:
    I have never understood what is the difference between "evening" and "night" in English. It seems as you can use "night" for the whole evening period.
    Боб -- first, thanks for the corrections! Is it really impossible to say Как проходило утро? I instinctively wanted to use the imperfective in order to emphasize the "whole process", instead of only the result.

    And to answer your question: I would say that "evening" roughly corresponds to the time period from 5 PM to 9 PM. But that's only approximate, because people don't necessarily perceive "evening" in terms of exact "clock time." Rather, it may signify "from the time you leave work till after you've eaten dinner." It's also roughly tied to закат -- from the time when it's beginning to get dim, until the sun has completely set and it's dark as night.

    But the expression "tonight" can cover both вечер and ночь. Like, if you say to a coworker "I have a date tonight," it means "Sometime after I leave work, and before I go to bed."

    "I have a date this evening" is correct, but can sometimes sound overly-precise and uncolloquial. You could say it, though, if friends invite you to go out drinking after work, but you already have some sort of appointment: "I'm having dinner with my parents this evening, but I'll be free by 9:30 or so, and could join you guys then." (But in the case of a romantic date, saying "this evening" may sound pessimistic, as though you expect the date to end early -- so "tonight" sounds better!)

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    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    Как проходило утро? - так не говорят.
    Только Как прошло утро? или Чем занимался утром? или Что ты делал утром? или Как обычно проходит твоё утро?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    Боб -- first, thanks for the corrections! Is it really impossible to say Как проходило утро? I instinctively wanted to use the imperfective in order to emphasize the "whole process", instead of only the result.
    Throbert, yes, it is impossible (at least if used out of a specific context).
    But there are some examples when it is possible:

    1. (However it's used not as a question, but as a statement):
    You write: "Как проходило моё утро:" and then write a long story with a detailed description of your morning activities.
    So, the imperfective would consider the action in its time duration here.
    But still, "Как прошло моё утро:" is also possible in this context.

    If you refer to a single action, you might say "Моё утро проходило так:" or "Моё утро прошло так:" if describing its details.
    But if you only give an appraisal of the process as a whole, you can only say "Моё утро прошло хорошо" or "Моё утро прошло неудачно" etc. - you do not view it "from inside the process", you view it "from outside" as a whole.

    2. When it is perfectly possible, is when you refer to systematic actions.
    Example: you come back from a business trip where you spent, say, a month. And you tell me a story about your life there. Then I would ask:
    "А как проходило твоё утро?" - 'cause I mean not a single morning, but all your mornings within that period.

    The usage of perf./imperf. aspects is sometimes very hard to explain. We just "feel" what sounds right and what sounds wrong. But we do not know all the rules
    But I would say: when you describe "the whole process" from the "outside view", you use perfective. Imperfective somewhat changes you "reference frame" as if you were viewing the process from its inside.
    We ask: "Как ты поработал?" "Как ты отдохнул?" etc. when we expect an appraisal (хорошо/плохо etc.), but we ask: "Как ты работал?" "Как ты отдыхал?" when we expect a description of process details.

    And "Я работал хорошо" implies "I worked carefully, following all the technology rules, etc." when "Я поработал хорошо" implies "I achieved good results with my work".

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    "А как проходило твоё утро?" - 'cause I mean not a single morning, but all your mornings within that period.
    Yes. For some reason, we prefer to avoid utilizing "утро" in plural form. Possibly, the correct question should be
    А как проходили твои утра?
    but to point out, that you want to know "template" of the morning processes, one inserts or impies "обычно", in which case singular утро is perfect
    Как [обычно] проходило твоё утро?

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