Results 1 to 15 of 15
Like Tree5Likes
  • 2 Post By Black Forest
  • 1 Post By Slowhand
  • 1 Post By Meerkat
  • 1 Post By Black Forest

Thread: Grrrrrrrrr Translation Websites

  1. #1
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    56
    Rep Power
    2

    Question Grrrrrrrrr Translation Websites

    Hi everyone, I'm frustrated using Google Translate to learn phrases
    in Russian for my gf. It seems every time I type in a phrase there
    is a word or 2 with bad translation.

    So just when I think I've learned some Russian, I am told that
    some of the words are wrong. Can anyone help.

    Am I doing something wrong? Should I change translation sites?
    Or should I be learning in an entirely different way?

    Thanks for any help, sorry I'm just frustrated....

  2. #2
    Подающий надежды оратор Black Forest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    38
    Rep Power
    4
    The truth is, no automatic translator will generate perfectly accurate results. It would be best to acquaint yourself with rules of grammar while using dictionaries to study unfamiliar words and phrases. However, you are welcome to post troublesome examples on the forum for help.
    xXHoax and Slowhand like this.
    Шварцвальд

  3. #3
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    56
    Rep Power
    2
    Thank you so much! Would I be required to post in Cyrillic? Or can I use latin/english.
    I appreciate you offering real help. : )

  4. #4
    Почтенный гражданин xXHoax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    318
    Rep Power
    20
    It is possible to write Russian in... A standard Latin spelling system but..... Eww, it's pretty hard to nail down what the rules are for it. Latin isnt really meant to represent slavic words, cyrillic was handmade for it. Just ask the Polish. Cyrillic is important for various things, among them being pronunciation and understanding aspects of endings, but I guess in theory it's not utterly necessary.

    It's important to see words in context for their various slightly different meanings. Google translate just assigns a match for each word, when in reality any given word in a language is like an archery target, with a range of possible interpretations to a similar target in the other language (Sometimes the meaning you want to hit the side of the target and not the center). The absolute best way to learn where the target starts and stops for a word, is to see it hit by various contexts. So you can see just how much the word can be bent before it means something completely different, or just stops making any sense. Some words have pretty small targets, like вода... Pretty much "water" no matter how you spin it.

    To do this, I recommend getting an addon for chrome or whatever browser you have, that allows you to double click a word to get its translation, rather than having a whole GoogleTranslate window open. Then you can go to youtube comments or an article and translate *both word by word, and phrase by phrase*. Take each translation with a grain of salt, and after seeing a word in 2-3 contexts it both sticks better and is pretty reliably free of Robotic translation bias.

  5. #5
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    56
    Rep Power
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by xXHoax View Post
    It is possible to write Russian in... A standard Latin spelling system but..... Eww, it's pretty hard to nail down what the rules are for it. Latin isnt really meant to represent slavic words, cyrillic was handmade for it. Just ask the Polish. Cyrillic is important for various things, among them being pronunciation and understanding aspects of endings, but I guess in theory it's not utterly necessary.

    It's important to see words in context for their various slightly different meanings. Google translate just assigns a match for each word, when in reality any given word in a language is like an archery target, with a range of possible interpretations to a similar target in the other language (Sometimes the meaning you want to hit the side of the target and not the center). The absolute best way to learn where the target starts and stops for a word, is to see it hit by various contexts. So you can see just how much the word can be bent before it means something completely different, or just stops making any sense. Some words have pretty small targets, like вода... Pretty much "water" no matter how you spin it.

    To do this, I recommend getting an addon for chrome or whatever browser you have, that allows you to double click a word to get its translation, rather than having a whole GoogleTranslate window open. Then you can go to youtube comments or an article and translate *both word by word, and phrase by phrase*. Take each translation with a grain of salt, and after seeing a word in 2-3 contexts it both sticks better and is pretty reliably free of Robotic translation bias.
    Thank you so much for this nice post. I use Chrome so I'll look for an extension. You brought up some great points. Russian is a very difficult language to learn - and I thought Dutch was hard..lol. Well I started using Google Translate when my girlfriend started emailing me large blocks of Russian Cyrillic text, and it works ok, but many times just average. Anyway thank you again for your help. : )

  6. #6
    Почтенный гражданин Serge_spb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    St Petersburg
    Posts
    294
    Rep Power
    15
    Using Google.Translate for learning phrases is awkward. The current mechanism may help to get the essence of a text. You have to find correct sentences somewhere else...

    I`m trying to learn some Georgian now, btw, what Google gives completely annoys me. Probably, one of the least developed vocabularies they provide

  7. #7
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    56
    Rep Power
    2
    Where do I find the correct sentences somewhere else, after I've done the initial quick translation on Google Translate?

  8. #8
    Подающий надежды оратор Black Forest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    38
    Rep Power
    4
    Unfortunately, there is no single source for correct sentences. Instead, it is recommended to consult dictionaries for help on individual words, though a translator could be useful for idiomatic language. Start small and try to get a feel for the right syntax.
    Шварцвальд

  9. #9
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    56
    Rep Power
    2
    Nice. Thanks for the advice.
    Lampada likes this.

  10. #10
    Почётный участник Meerkat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    86
    Rep Power
    4
    I have used orfogrammka.ru to check my grammatical mistakes. Requires registration, and then just paste your text in the field and push проверить, and it will highlight peculiarities of your text and make some proposals to correct them.

    Of course you need to compose the text yourself in the first place and make the corrections by hand.
    Исправите мой ошибки, пожалуйста. Я хочу учиться.

  11. #11
    Подающий надежды оратор Black Forest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    38
    Rep Power
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Meerkat View Post
    Исправите мой ошибки, пожалуйста. Я хочу учиться.
    If you insist...

    Исправьте мои ошибки, пожалуйста.
    Шварцвальд

  12. #12
    Почётный участник Meerkat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    86
    Rep Power
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Forest View Post
    If you insist...

    Исправьте мои ошибки, пожалуйста.
    Я этого уже знал, но подумал это честнее оставлять вот так. Приятно познакомиться в любом случае!
    RedFox likes this.
    Исправите мой ошибки, пожалуйста. Я хочу учиться.

  13. #13
    Подающий надежды оратор Black Forest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    38
    Rep Power
    4
    Ой, забавно. Ведь судят не по словам, а по делам.
    Шварцвальд

  14. #14
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    56
    Rep Power
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Meerkat View Post
    I have used orfogrammka.ru to check my grammatical mistakes. Requires registration, and then just paste your text in the field and push проверить, and it will highlight peculiarities of your text and make some proposals to correct them.

    Of course you need to compose the text yourself in the first place and make the corrections by hand.
    Nice. Ok, I'm translation large blocks of text at a time. Say 250 to 500 words, will it handle that? Thanks

  15. #15
    Подающий надежды оратор Black Forest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    38
    Rep Power
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowhand View Post
    Say 250 to 500 words, will it handle that?
    Above 500 characters at a time, you will need to pay. Moreover, the service is best suited for writers of Russian, people who already have a working understanding of the structure and style of the language. If you're just inserting the nonsensical dregs that pop out of Google Translate or some other algorithm, Orfogrammka's results will be comparatively flawed; keep in mind that it's not a translator, but rather a grammar checker. If someone is sending you text in Russian, then this service will do little beyond helping you correct any errors that may be present.

    It does its job for people who wish to perfect their writing, but, alas, it is not a shortcut to understanding written Russian - or being understood, for that matter.
    Last edited by Black Forest; September 21st, 2016 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Addendum
    Meerkat likes this.
    Шварцвальд

Similar Threads

  1. Belarus and foreign websites
    By fortheether in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: January 17th, 2012, 08:04 PM
  2. websites for learning russian
    By frederic in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: August 31st, 2009, 06:33 PM
  3. What websites do you use to find penpals?
    By MasterAdmin in forum Penpals and Language Exchange
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: October 18th, 2006, 12:44 AM
  4. favorite Japanese websites?
    By ST in forum Japanese
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: May 30th, 2006, 05:10 AM
  5. cheap airlines/websites
    By dcunited11 in forum Travel and Tourism
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: April 19th, 2006, 03:06 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Russian Lessons                           

Russian Tests and Quizzes            

Russian Vocabulary