Thread: Chapter 21 questions

Hello all,

I'm just beginning this chapter and have a question on the dialogue that begins the chapter. One of the characters, Kolya, says "Ну что ж, пошли", which on the English side says, "Well, let's go". Can "пойдём" also mean "let's go"? I've only learned "пошли" as a past tense form so far. How does that work as "let's go"?

Z

Its like saying "I'm gone" or "We're gone" in English when you're leaving.

Originally Posted by zorro

One of the characters, Kolya, says "Ну что ж, пошли", which on the English side says, "Well, let's go". Can "пойдём" also mean "let's go"?

Yes, it can: "Ну что ж, пошли! = Ну что ж, пойдём!"

I've only learned "пошли" as a past tense form so far. How does that work as "let's go"?

In colloquial speech, past tense forms of verbs of motion are often used to express an invitation to go together (like пошли! поехали! побежали! полетели! поплыли! etc.) or a command (note - if a command, it sounds rude): пошёл вон отсюда! (go away from here!) etc.

Usage of past tense intensifies the imperative sentense (as if we are half a way already to get something done).

Note. Although it can be used with other verbs sometimes, the most typical usage of this form is verbs of motion.

Zorro, are you talking about my blog?

Originally Posted by Deborski

Zorro, are you talking about my blog?

It's funny. Zorro has his own chapter book: Lesson 13 questions

Originally Posted by Lampada

It's funny. Zorro has his own chapter book: Lesson 13 questions

Whoops! LOL I was confused because there is also a Kolya in my story.

Deborski--No it's just the dialogue in the grammar book I'm working through.

Another question: I need the choose the imperfective or perfective aspect.

сегодня я (received)только одно письмо от брата, но завтра я, наверно, (will receive) 2-3 письма от своих друзей.
Is the first получил and the second буду получать?

Also how is "2-3" said in speech? We say "two to three" or "two or three" in English. Is it "две три" in Russian?

Z

Originally Posted by zorro

сегодня я (received)только одно письмо от брата, но завтра я, наверно, (will receive) 2-3 письма от своих друзей.
Is the first получил and the second буду получать?

I'm pretty sure you should use the perfective future (я получу) even though there more than one letter will be received -- after all, you expect that several letters will be delivered simultaneously, on the same day. However, I think you could say:

В декабре я буду получать много писем от друзей.
(In December, I will be receiving many letters from friends [i.e., over the course of the entire Christmas season].)

Originally Posted by zorro

Deborski--No it's just the dialogue in the grammar book I'm working through.

Another question: I need the choose the imperfective or perfective aspect.

сегодня я (received)только одно письмо от брата, но завтра я, наверно, (will receive) 2-3 письма от своих друзей.
Is the first получил and the second буду получать?

Also how is "2-3" said in speech? We say "two to three" or "two or three" in English. Is it "две три" in Russian?

Z

... я получу два-три письма.

Note 1. "две" is for feminine nouns only. So, it is "два-три" in this case.
Note 2. Robert is right about the aspect.

Bob,

My God, what a response! Thank you!

A couple more translation problems:
Well, here I am in Moscow. I'd like to write a letter home, but I don't know where to begin.
Ну, вот я и в Москве. Я хотел бы написать письмо домой но не знаю, где начаться. Not sure about imperfective/perfective here.

--Did you notice that that tourist had a Bible in his suitcase?
--Yes, I did, but I want only provocative books.
--Вы не заметили, что у этого туриста выла Библия в чемодане?
--Да, заметил, но я хочу только провокационные книги. Again imperfective/perfective isn't clear to me.

Thanks again,
Z

Originally Posted by zorro

Well, here I am in Moscow. I'd like to write a letter home, but I don't know where to begin.
Ну, вот я и в Москве. Я хотел бы написать письмо домой но не знаю, где начаться. Not sure about imperfective/perfective here.

Ну, вот я и в Москве. - OK!
Я хотел бы написать письмо домой, но не знаю, с чего начать.

Aspects are OK. "Хотел бы написать" is correct. "Не знаю, с чего начать" and "не знаю, с чего начинать" are both possible. The former sounds more spontaneous (perfective "начать"), and the latter implies some "long thinking" (imperfective "начинать").

But there are 3 mistakes:
- always put a comma before "но",
- we do not say "где начинать", we say "с чего начинать" (from what to begin). "Где начинать" sounds as if you do not know WHERE to start physically (in your room, or on a bench in the park).
- "начаться" does not work here. It is a reflexive verb. It is only used when something starts by itself: "фильм начался", "началась зима", "началась война". A person cannot "начаться", he can only "начать" something.

--Did you notice that that tourist had a Bible in his suitcase?
--Yes, I did, but I want only provocative books.
--Вы не заметили, что у этого туриста выла Библия в чемодане?
--Да, заметил, но я хочу только провокационные книги. Again imperfective/perfective isn't clear to me.

--Вы не заметили, что у этого туриста была Библия в чемодане? - Aspects are OK.
--Да, заметил, но я хочу только провокационные книги. - (!) What do you mean by "провокационные книги"? The sentence sounds strange. "Хочу провокационные книги" hardly makes any sense.

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

--Вы не заметили, что у этого туриста была Библия в чемодане? - Aspects are OK.
--Да, заметил, но я хочу только провокационные книги. - (!) What do you mean by "провокационные книги"? The sentence sounds strange. "Хочу провокационные книги" hardly makes any sense.

I can only guess what this means because it's from a series of translation exercises without any coherent context. I didn't write them. Reading the English sentence, I can imagine a young Soviet customs agent asking his superior why he let that Western tourist through when there was a Bible in his suitcase. The boss replies that he's not concerned about Bibles, it's the "provocative books" he needs to confiscate, capitalist propaganda, maybe?

Z

Oh, well, now I get what you actually mean.

However, in the passage below

Originally Posted by zorro

--Did you notice that that tourist had a Bible in his suitcase?
--Yes, I did, but I want only provocative books.

the verb "want" is completely unusual for me. We never say it like that in Russian.

If someone says "Я хочу книги", it is literally understood as he wants some books. I mean, he wants to have them in his possession. Maybe, he wants to buy books, or wants to read them. So, the phrase e.g. "Я хочу только новые интересные книги" can be expected in a book store, or in a library etc.

That is why, the phrase you wrote in Russian

Originally Posted by zorro

--Да, заметил, но я хочу только провокационные книги.

sounds really strange. It is if he really WANTED (to have/to buy/to read) only provocative books.This verb expresses one's desire.

So, "хочу" should not be used here. Instead, it should be something like

"... но меня интересуют только провокационные книги"
"... но я ищу (искал) только провокационные книги"
"... но меня беспокоют только провокационные книги"

or probably some other versions may also work.

When you WANT something (Russian "хотеть") it is understood as "once you get what you want, it kinda makes you happy".
Now imagine that the customs agent finally finds a provocative book in someone's suitcase, and his face breaks into a smile of happiness! "Wow! I'm so glad! I've finally found it!" - and then he takes this book for himself.
Is this imaginary situation funny for you? So, you see why "хочу" in this context is completely strange for us.

BTW, I checked the English verb "to want" in an English-Russian dictionary.
It is not only translated as "хотеть". In one of its meanings it is translated to Russian as "разыскивать", as in the context of "He is wanted by the police" = "Его разыскивает полиция".
And the backwards translation of "разыскивать" from Russian to English shows up as "to look for, to search for".

Thanks Bob,

This is a problem I've run into more than once with this book. There are exercises using structures or expressions that haven't been covered in the book up to that point. Thank you for filling in the blanks.

On to chapter 22...only six more chapters to go.

Z

Originally Posted by zorro

There are exercises using structures or expressions that haven't been covered in the book up to that point.

Hmm... That may be a good reason to change the book then...

I know what you mean. But every book has it's problems; on the whole I'm satisfied and plan to finish to the end.

Z