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One question that I wonder about, is there in the internet a list like "the 200 most usual words in Russian" or something like that. So a list of words you should learn in order to build sentences, like necessary conjunctures, basic verbs etc.
Any ideas?
A little more research and you will probably find a list with stress patterns too, but then again, maybe not.
That's what is wrong with such a list - a new learner has no idea how to pronounce the words because Russian has free accent placement. A list is good only if all you plan to do is read, and I'm not sure of that even.
There is a book, a frequency dictionary of 10,000 Russian words in frequency order with stress and irregular pronunciation guide:
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Learners- ... 414&sr=8-2
Amazon.co.uk
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Russian-Learner ... 466&sr=8-1
There's a very helpful book by V. Klepko concerning stress: A Practical Handbook on Stress in Russian.
http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Handboo ... 216&sr=8-2
Anything by Nicholas Brown is worth looking into.
Have you been here?
I reckon learning of word list isn't good idea because you won't know how to use them.
At first you have to study some lessons from self-study reference.
Then try to describe your life with very simple sentences in English ( 4 or 5 sentences is enough for first time). And then try to write the same in Russian. One more step, type that in this forum. We will correct your mistakes.
Then go to first step and so on. Next text has to be more difficult.
Such way is more useful for learning words and you will get word list.
Thanks for the link. But if I look at the file I only see things like "Quote:
Originally Posted by Leushka
[quote=authentic silence]Thanks for the link. But if I look at the file I only see things like "Quote:
Originally Posted by Leushka
[quote=authentic silence]Thanks for the link. But if I look at the file I only see things like "Quote:
Originally Posted by Leushka
Ditto. I think the word list is absolutely fantastic. It gives one an objective way of accumulating words which are used according to frequency. Of course, as what had been said earlier about knowing the other parts of the language is just as important, do not forget the grammar too.
So once you have 5000 words under your belt you sould theortically be able to understand up to 80+ % of all written text. Of course keeping in mind the grammar.
Now learning Russian seems to be just a little bit easier, with this word list. Also very true, once you pick up the first couple hundred (thousands even better) words and it gets into your active vocabulary, then gathering the rest seems easier.
It's a mistake, unfortunately. Trust me, I'm an old learner. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tohca
We can learn words in a context only. And you really will know a word when you can use it.
That is a bit of a generalization too, isn't it? While the old method of word lists plus grammar plus plenty of translation exercises is terribly inefficient and almost useless when you are having your first conversation... it works too. First, you can add context by yourself; second, those words you learned "by heart" will pop up in some context and if not the first time, they will be familiar enough the second time to be used in conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by XPaul
Says Leushka, who studies Russian by "good" methods only, but studied Latin by grammar and translations.
I found it easier to study Latin by speaking with natives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leushka
Yeah, but less effective. How often have they praised you for your Latin?Quote:
Originally Posted by xRoosterx
Thanks for the input guys. I guess there is nothing better than to be right where the action is, that is to be in Russia to learn the Russian language. However, for someone who does not have much opportunity to interact with native Russians (or any native for that matter when you are learning their language), I think soaking up the vocabulary is not such a bad idea. Hard work though, but have not found a better way yet. Of course, vocabulary by itself if not enough, unless of course you are learning the Malaysian language, then it is plenty already because it virtually has no grammar.
Now that I have quite a bagful of Russian vocab, it makes learning the grammar part seems easier and somehow more interesting.
Well like the saying goes, different strokes for different folks, certainly does apply here. :wink:
I don't think that they are opposing grammar to vocabulary. Instead, they are opposing a kind of "theorical" learning (vocabulary and grammar) to a "practical" one.Quote:
Originally Posted by tohca
Their concern is that if you learn the vocabulary by heart, but don't learn and exercise it in context, you will not be able to use it in a real life conversation. The words just don't come quick enough when you want to use them.
For this reason, they suggest to learn the words in context, that is in complete sentences, in situations and dialogues similar to real life, as many textbooks do. This way you'll "automatize" what you learn, almost being able to "think" in that language when you have to speak it.
But while I am beginning Russian with normal textbooks, I don't agree with them that learning word lists is completely useless.
Me again :-)
What I said applies to beginners. If as you said you already have a bagful of words, the "suggested" approach would probably be to read "authentic" material as much as possible: from literature to newspapers. This way you'll encounter new words, again in context: it will be easier for you to use them and you'll learn in what situation they are used.
Valde Sepius!Quote:
Originally Posted by Leushka
Roosty is a time traveller.
I admit that somebody can learn word list with 5000 words. As for me I can't. I can learn word list with 200 words. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Leushka
Besides that, a language is more then knowing of grammar and translation of words.
I think word lists are useful to realize how many words you already know.
Which methods do you use to study Russian? I just wonder?Quote:
Says Leushka, who studies Russian by "good" methods only, but studied Latin by grammar and translations.
Latin is a peculiar language and word lists is more likely to learn it.
There are some useful tips on how to learn words in a series of books "Cambridge English Vocabulary in Use" by Michael McCarthy and Felicity O'Dell. They are suitable for Russian vocabulary too.
I started with some Russian Pimsleur, but now I'll use the free Princeton course and/or Assimil.Quote:
Originally Posted by XPaul
Obviously Latin is peculiar and my example was just because I learned it with word lists and grammar. I would NOT learn a living language with the same method (*). All that I am saying is that "We can learn words in a context only" is a bit of a generalization.
(*) EDIT: as well as I would never learn Latin by the "modern" approach, with a dialogue between Marcus and Tullius, who meet on the street and greet themselves.
Sorry! Now I see what you mean.