Thread: All about один!

OK, I was looking over some grammar exercises, and I saw "один" used in some ways I hadn't seen (or noticed perhaps). This brings me to my questions:
1. Он в киоске купил один конверт и одну марку. Is there ANY difference from just saying Он в киоске купил конверт и марку. I understand the meaning, but is there any context in which one is better/different from the other? Does one sound better to your native-Russian ears?
2. Is один 100% interchangable with только? Can I say Только Бог знает and have it mean exactly what Один Бог знает? На тарелке остались одни крошки is 100% interchangable with На тарелке остались только крошки?
3. And finally, is it interchangable with самый and тот же? Are all these acceptable and equal statements?:
- Мы учились в одной школе.
- Мы учились в той же школе.
- Мы учились в самой школе.

1 You need use один here if the number really does matter. Say, if you need to count how much money he spent. In most cases it does not mater and it's even better to not use один at all.

2 In such cases - yes, true, completelly equal - только=один.

3 Мы учились в одной школе - we (you and someone else) studied in the same school.
Мы учились в той же школе - you just inform someone else that you studied there too.
Мы учились в самой школе - works only with the stressed o in самой - and means that you studied right in the school building, not in the school courtyard, not in the neighbour building or on its roof, but inside the school.
Мы учились в той самой школе - we studied in the very school (which was destroyed by tornado last week).
Мы учились в той же самой школе = Мы учились в той же школе.
Мы учились в самой+adjective школе - we studied in the most+... school

Originally Posted by Barmaley

OK, I was looking over some grammar exercises, and I saw "один" used in some ways I hadn't seen (or noticed perhaps). This brings me to my questions:
1. Он в киоске купил один конверт и одну марку. Is there ANY difference from just saying Он в киоске купил конверт и марку.

the same difference as in
He bought one envelope and one postmark in a kiosk
against
He bought an envelope and a postmark in a kiosk.

In the first case you explicitly specify number for some reason.

Originally Posted by Barmaley

I understand the meaning, but is there any context in which one is better/different from the other? Does one sound better to your native-Russian ears?

Better without один - it's more fluent but to me there's very little difference.

Originally Posted by Barmaley

2. Is один 100% interchangable with только? Can I say Только Бог знает and have it mean exactly what Один Бог знает? На тарелке остались одни крошки is 100% interchangable with На тарелке остались только крошки?

Yes, here is the 100% equality.
Funny it may seem but you can use both of these words in a single sentence:
На столе остались одни только крошки.
На столе остались только одни крошки.
both are correct.

Hahaha:
Один Бог - is a name of a Norse god Odin
Never use capital letters unnecessarily

Seriously though, the difference in English would be as in:

God only knows
versus
God alone knows

Originally Posted by Barmaley

3. And finally, is it interchangable with самый and тот же? Are all these acceptable and equal statements?:
- Мы учились в одной школе.
- Мы учились в той же школе.
- Мы учились в самой школе.

The seconds sentence needs an object (clarification):
Мы учились в той же школе, что и ты.
Мы учились в той же школе, что и Гагарин

The last one is incorrect.
It means We've been going to the school itself.

Мы учились в одной и той же школе.
Мы учились в той же самой школе, что и ...(кто-нибудь ещё).

Мы учились в той же школе. - It's a right sentence.

В какой школе учился Иван Иваныч?
В школе №3.
А вы с папой?
Мы учились в той же школе.

На углу был банк. Магазин находился в том же доме.
Иван жил на Волхонке/9. Мы жили в том же доме.

Один бог знает. - Big O is correct as well - don't lissten to Ramil Barmaley - everytime use it in the begining of the sentence - it's nessesary!

PS: бог Один is Norse god Odin

Spoilsport. I was only joking.

Would this be correct?
(I would like to order one pair of blue jeans and one pair of black jeans)
я хотел бы заказать одни синие джинсы и одни черные джинсы.

Exactly.

только и один are always interchangable or just in some cases?

Not always, occasionally.

I'd suggested that только=один in all cases where something/somebody belongs to something/somebody, like:

Его сердце принадлежит только ей и ей одной.
His heart belongs to her and her only.

Одному ему известно = Только ему известно means that he owns some knowledge, it belongs to him.
He only knows = the knowledge belongs to one person, only to him.

Это было адресовано вам обоим? Нет - одному мне.
Was it adressed to both of you? No - to me only. No just (to?) me.

means that the subject (a letter, a present, a phrase) belongs to one person and you wish to underline that fact.

Originally Posted by Leof

Одному ему известно = Только ему известно means that he ought some knowledge, it belongs to him.
He only knows = the knowledge belongs to one person, only to him.

What did you want to say? "that he owns some knowledge, it belongs to him"?

ah yes - it was a wrong word, thank you!

OK one more question, then. The example I gave with the jeans was ok, I was told (I can't believe something was actually 100% right for a change! ). But if you use туфли it would be different, right, because you can have a single shoe. So how would you guys say this, like you were calling Nike on the phone to order shoes:
I would like to order one pair of blue shoes and one pair of black shoes.
Would you have to use пара in such a case, like so?:
я хотел бы заказать одну пару синих туфлей и одну пару черных туфлей.

you can ask them to sell you:
...одни синие и одни чёрные туфли
...по (одной) паре чёрных и синих туфель
...синие и чёрные туфли

one shoe will be одна туфля ,say, if you have one leg only you can try to ask them sell одну синюю и одну чёрную туфлю. But don't forget to ask both on the same leg, otherwise they might sell you left and right.

Originally Posted by Leof

...одни синие и одни чёрные туфли

And that doesn't sound bizarre in Russian? I was going to mention that one, but I though I'd get laughed out of the forum. If I were to say "I would like to buy one black shoes and one blue shoes," in English, I would be directed to a mental hospital...

Originally Posted by Barmaley

Originally Posted by Leof

...одни синие и одни чёрные туфли

And that doesn't sound bizarre in Russian? I was going to mention that one, but I though I'd get laughed out of the forum. If I were to say "I would like to buy one black shoes and one blue shoes," in English, I would be directed to a mental hospital...

It's because one in English can only be singular.

Whereas we say "one pair", Russians can use одни.

If I said "one clock", would it be "одни часы"?

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by Barmaley

Originally Posted by Leof

...одни синие и одни чёрные туфли

And that doesn't sound bizarre in Russian? I was going to mention that one, but I though I'd get laughed out of the forum. If I were to say "I would like to buy one black shoes and one blue shoes," in English, I would be directed to a mental hospital...

It's because one in English can only be singular.

Whereas we say "one pair", Russians can use одни.

If I said "one clock", would it be "одни часы"?

Right. I knew that, but I thought it was just because it was a single object that just so happened to have a plural form. But I thought shoes would be different, since you have a PAIR of shoes. You can have both туфли as well as a туфля. You can't have часы and a час.

yes. but note that you can separate the pair of shoes and take one shoe.
часы is a single thing and you can not separate it. It's called so because of the dial with hours.

Originally Posted by Leof

yes. but note that you can separate the pair of shoes and take one shoe.
часы is a single thing and you can not separate it. It's called so because of the dial with hours.

That was precisely my point!

No! It was mine, and my only!

Originally Posted by Barmaley

That was precisely my point!

Originally Posted by Leof

No! It was mine, and mine only!

You mean...... this thread actually has two points?!


Excuse me, I just have to go and sit down for a minute......



:P