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Thread: The accusative case of "который"

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    The accusative case of "который"

    Alright, my book is horrible at explaining things. I'll quote the book exactly on this one.

    15.5 The Relative Adjective который in the Accusative Case
    Это институт, который строил Олег.
    Вот идёт Максим, которого вы уже знаете.
    Это фотография, которую сделал Олег в Академгородке.
    Вот идёт Нина, которую вы уже знаете.
    Вот письмо, которое я вчера получил.
    Вот письма, которые я сейчас написал.
    Мы говорили о Николае Петровиче, которого вы сейчас видели.
    Remember that the relative adjective "который" takes its gender and number from the noun to which it refers, but its case is determined by its function in its own clause."
    And that's it.

    The examples help... I suppose. They still do not give a set in stone set of rules about how to use it, though. For example, is the assumption that the ending "ого" is for animate nominative nouns? I still don't understand how "ую" ending works at all; I remember using it on the accusative adjective clause, but I suppose to say I am lost right now would be an understatement.

    Any help?

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    Re: The accusative case of "который"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrm
    but its case is determined by its function in its own clause."
    A strange statement. Its case is actually the same as the noun's case. Only for inanimate nouns of masculine and neuter gender and for all inanimate nouns in plural forms the accusative case looks like the nominative one. But it doesn't mean it's not accusative.

    So, for animate nouns of masculine gender it's которого
    and
    for inanimate nouns of masculine gender it's который (looks like the nominative)

    For all nouns of feminine gender it's которую

    For all nouns of neuter gender it's которое (looks like the nominative)

    For animate nouns of all genders in plural forms it's которых
    For inanimate nouns of all genders in plural forms it's которые (looks like the nominative)
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    Re: The accusative case of "который"

    The rule is this: if the noun is in accusative case and it is male or neuter and animated, then it uses the genitive ending.

    Вот идёт Максим, которого вы уже знаете.

    Maxim is a male person, so the adjective refers to a male person in accusative case. As the reference is a living individual the case ending is that of the genitive. This is not only true for который but for all adjectives by the way, and the nouns, too. So the accusative of Максим is Максимого. The accusative of учитель is учителя, just like the genitive.

    Female nouns and adjectives ending in -а or -я referring to animated individuals in singular do not follow this rule, they use the normal accusative ending -у or -ю, as do the adjectives. So the accusative of старая бабушка is старую бабушку. Female nouns ending in -ь are always the same in nominative and accusative singular.

    Female animated nouns and adjectives in plural use the same form in genitive and accusative, so the accusative plural of старая бабушка is старых бабушек, like the genitive. This goes for nouns ending in -ь as well.

    I think that pretty much covers it.

    Robin
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    Re: The accusative case of "который"

    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Its case is actually the same as the noun's case.
    You mean the gender.

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    Re: The accusative case of "который"

    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrm
    but its case is determined by its function in its own clause."
    A strange statement.
    Actually it's not strange. Take the sentence Вот идёт Максим, которого вы уже знаете. In this sentence, the personal name is in nominative case, but in the subordinate clause which follows the subject in nominative is вы and the role of которого is that of an accusative. So it is not in grammatical agreement with the noun it refers to, but with the role it fulfils in the subordinate clause. That's what this statement means.

    Robin
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    Re: The accusative case of "который"

    Quote Originally Posted by bitpicker
    The rule is this: if the noun is in accusative case and it is male or neuter and animated, then it uses the genitive ending.
    What? No I don't think so. Я убью это чудовище, а не этого чудовища. I think.

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    Re: The accusative case of "который"

    Actually it's not strange. Take the sentence Вот идёт Максим, которого вы уже знаете. In this sentence, the personal name is in nominative case, but in the subordinate clause which follows the subject in nominative is вы and the role of которого is that of an accusative
    Yes, you're right. I misunderstood it first.

    Quote Originally Posted by bitpicker
    The rule is this: if the noun is in accusative case and it is male or neuter and animated, then it uses the genitive ending.
    "The genitive ending" has nothing to do with this. It's the accusative case, and the ending is accusative too.
    Now, if the noun is neuter, it doesn't matter if it's animated ot not. For neuter nouns, nominative and accusative endings are the same, in singular and plural. Like in Latin. You can't say "Это чудовище, которого я люблю", although чудовище is animate.

    Maxim is a male person, so the adjective refers to a male person in accusative case. As the reference is a living individual the case ending is that of the [s:1do72nh5]genitive[/s:1do72nh5].
    The accusative.

    So the accusative of Максим is Максимого.
    The accusative of Максим is Максима. The form Максимого doesn't exist and makes no sense.
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    Re: The accusative case of "который"

    Eek, according to my grammar book which uses this word in its declension tables it is чудовище in accusative singular (like the nominative) but чудовищ in accusative plural (like the genitive). So it works like a fmeale noun in that the singular accusative is not like the genitive. And лицо for example works like any other neuter noun and is the same in nominative and accusative regardless of number.

    The mind boggles.

    @ Оля: Grammar books usually say that the accusative ending of animate masculine nouns is like that of the genitive case. And it is. It uses the same letters. That's all it means. Of course it is the accusative case, but it looks identical to the genitive case, whereas for instance мать could be accusative or nominative because these two cases look alike here.

    You're right about the name of course, I got a little sidetracked. It felt strange when I was writing it...

    Robin
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    Re: The accusative case of "который"

    Quote Originally Posted by bitpicker
    it is чудовище in accusative singular (like the nominative) but чудовищ in accusative plural
    Stop.....
    I mixed up something...........
    Really...

    Nominative - животные, but "я люблю животных".......

    So I mixed up my native language with Latin........
    Well, I hate theory!
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    Re: The accusative case of "который"

    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Nominative - животные, but "я люблю животных".......
    But this is plural. The accusative plural is always similar to genitive plural for animated and to nominative plural for non-animated.

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    Re: The accusative case of "который"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zubr
    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Nominative - животные, but "я люблю животных".......
    But this is plural.
    I know. I meant the Latin rule for neuter nouns that they always have the same form in the nominative and accusative cases. It works with окна, for example:
    Это окно (This is a window)
    and
    Я вижу окно (I see a window)

    Это окна (These are windows)
    and
    Я вижу окна (I see windows)
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: The accusative case of "который"

    Вот тут хорошее объяснение:

    Современный русский язык.

    Там и про единственное и множественное число и про лицо...
    Налево пойдёшь - коня потеряешь, направо пойдёшь - сам голову сложишь.
    Прямой путь не предлагать!

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