Thread: ac or ic?

Он любит плавать под (нос).
The answer (in bracket) should be нос или носом? The book says it is носом, but I thought that swimming would be a word of motion, thus нос.
Пожалуйта, помочь мне. (Please help me). Спасибо.

Originally Posted by tohca

Он любит плавать под (нос).
The answer (in bracket) should be нос или носом? The book says it is носом, but I thought that swimming would be a word of motion, thus нос.
Пожалуйта, помочь мне. (Please help me). Спасибо.

Honestly, I have no idea what does it mean. The only meaningful context I could deduce is под носом (корабля). (Under the bow of a ship).

Originally Posted by tohca

Пожалуйста, помогите мне. (Please help me). Спасибо.

I agree with Ramil.
Anyway, the sentence sounds strange to me ("Он любит плавать под носом") without any additions or some appropriate context.

By the way, you can say, for example:
Он любит заплывать под нос корабля.
But I don't think it's everything ok with this guy.

thousand apologies, was rushing out when I sent the question. It should read:
Он любит плавать под (вода) and not (нос). So should the answer be воду или водой. Book's answer is водой, but to me плавать is to swim and thus a word of motion -> ac.
Помогите мне, пожалуйста.

Originally Posted by tohca

thousand apologies, was rushing out when I sent the question. It should read:
Он любит плавать под (вода) and not (нос). So should the answer be воду или водой. Book's answer is водой, but to me плавать is to swim and thus a word of motion -> ac.
Помогите мне, пожалуйста.

The preposition 'под' makes it a location - where? underwater.
So под водой is correct. Always look on a preposition if there is any.

Actually, both Russian and English speakers make the same mistake:
Whether you're swimming or standing in water, you're really not under it,
you're within it.
You can be under the surface of the water, but to get under the water itself
you must dig into the mud or rock at the bottom of a lake, river, or other body of water.


В действительности, владеющие и русским и английским языками ошибаются тем же самым образом: Если вы плаваете или стоите в воде, вы на самом деле не под ней, вы и внутри неё.
Вы можете быть под поверхностью воды, но чтобы оказаться под водой самой, вам надо зарыться в грязь или горную породу на дне озера, реки, или другой массы воды.

Originally Posted by Ramil

The preposition 'под' makes it a location - where? underwater.

I can't agree. Consider the expression "нырнуть под воду".

"Плавать под водой" is actually idiomatic expression, but in other cases both variants are possible with a little difference in meaning.

Карась любит плавать под корягой - in this sentence the speaker slightly focuses on location.

Щука любит плавать под корягу - focus on motion.

Originally Posted by tohca

Он любит плавать под (нос).
The answer (in bracket) should be нос или носом? The book says it is носом, but I thought that swimming would be a word of motion, thus нос.
Пожалуйта, помочь мне. (Please help me). Спасибо.

You have got a little confused.

Swimming is a verb of motion, however the direction of the motion is not вода. Вода is the location of the action. It answers the question "Где он любит плавать?".

под + accusative means to "go under".
под + instrumental means to "be under".

Swimming underwater is "swimming while being underwater".


It's the same as:
Он ходит в парке (preposition case, therefore парк is the location.) = He is walking in the park.
Он ходит в парк (accusative case, therefore парк is the direction.) = He goes to the park.

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by tohca

Он любит плавать под (нос).
The answer (in bracket) should be нос или носом? The book says it is носом, but I thought that swimming would be a word of motion, thus нос.
Пожалуйта, помочь мне. (Please help me). Спасибо.

You have got a little confused.

Swimming is a verb of motion, however the direction of the motion is not вода. Вода is the location of the action. It answers the question "Где он любит плавать?".

под + accusative means to "go under".
под + instrumental means to "be under".

Swimming underwater is "swimming while being underwater".

It's the same as:
Он ходит в парке (preposition case, therefore парк is the location.) = He is walking in the park.
Он ходит в парк (accusative case, therefore парк is the direction.) = He goes to the park.

Большое спасибо! Сейчас всё ясно. So it is:
Нырнуть под воду (to borrow Полуношник's example) и плавать под водой. To dive into the water and to swim underwater.

Originally Posted by tohca

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by tohca

Он любит плавать под (нос).
The answer (in bracket) should be нос или носом? The book says it is носом, but I thought that swimming would be a word of motion, thus нос.
Пожалуйта, помочь мне. (Please help me). Спасибо.

You have got a little confused.

Swimming is a verb of motion, however the direction of the motion is not вода. Вода is the location of the action. It answers the question "Где он любит плавать?".

под + accusative means to "go under".
под + instrumental means to "be under".

Swimming underwater is "swimming while being underwater".

It's the same as:
Он ходит в парке (preposition case, therefore парк is the location.) = He is walking in the park.
Он ходит в парк (accusative case, therefore парк is the direction.) = He goes to the park.

Большое спасибо! Сейчас всё ясно. So it is:
Нырнуть под воду (to borrow Полуношник's example) и плавать под водой. To dive into the water and to swim underwater.

Yes because "to dive into the water" the direction is "under water", but with "to swim underwater" it's not the direction, but the location.

Originally Posted by mudrets

Actually, both Russian and English speakers make the same mistake:
Whether you're swimming or standing in water, you're really not under it,
you're within it.
You can be under the surface of the water, but to get under the water itself
you must dig into the mud or rock at the bottom of a lake, river, or other body of water.


В действительности, владеющие и русским и английским языками ошибаются тем же самым образом: Если вы плаваете или стоите в воде, вы на самом деле не под ней, вы и внутри неё.
Вы можете быть под поверхностью воды, но чтобы оказаться под водой самой, вам надо зарыться в грязь или горную породу на дне озера, реки, или другой массы воды.

Actually, both languages just skip the word "surface".

Originally Posted by Freeloader

Originally Posted by mudrets

Actually, both Russian and English speakers make the same mistake:
Whether you're swimming or standing in water, you're really not under it,
you're within it.
You can be under the surface of the water, but to get under the water itself
you must dig into the mud or rock at the bottom of a lake, river, or other body of water.


В действительности, владеющие и русским и английским языками ошибаются тем же самым образом: Если вы плаваете или стоите в воде, вы на самом деле не под ней, вы и внутри неё.
Вы можете быть под поверхностью воды, но чтобы оказаться под водой самой, вам надо зарыться в грязь или горную породу на дне озера, реки, или другой массы воды.

Actually, both languages just skip the word "surface".

mudrets, I wouldn't say it's a mistake, it's just a term of expression. When you are "under water" you may not be under the entire body of water, but there still is a certain amount of water above you, so you still are "under water".

Hence the word "submerged" - which takes care of both scenarios, huh, TATY?

But, could you imagine: I am currently submerged in water. I shall ring you later.