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Thread: тоже and также

  1. #1
    JackBoni
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    тоже and также

    Hello

    These two little words are causing me a lot of confusion. I always seem to pick the wrong one, although they (supposedly) mean roughly the same thing. However ridiculous it may seem, no-one I know seems to be able to explain the difference(s) to me. It can't be that difficult.. can it? If anyone can attempt an explanation I would be very grateful.

    Thanks

    Jack

  2. #2
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    Re: тоже and также

    I think examples is the better explanation.

    "Также" very often sounds too formal, really formal, and its usage could look strange/unnatural in many contexts.
    "Тоже" is not formal at all, but it is not the same as "также"! They are not interchangeable in any context.
    Well, roughly speaking, "тоже" is "too", and "также" is "also", but we do not use "также" the same way as you use "also" in English.

    For example:
    English - I think that snow is white. I also think that the moon is yellow.
    Russian - Я думаю, что снег белый. А еще я думаю, что луна жёлтая.

    Basically, you can say here, "Я также думаю, что луна жёлтая", but it sounds very, very, very formal, and such phrasing is tipical for English speakers when they write in Russian. Moreover, "я также думаю" is ambiguous; it could mean "I think, too... (like someone else who thinks so)". It depends on intonation though.

    So I suggest to avoid the word "также", at least in the beginning. Try to use only "тоже" and "(а) ещё".
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: тоже and также

    It's a pity you haven't provided examples that confuse you. Well, let's start with this:
    - Я люблю помидоры.
    - Я тоже люблю помидоры. Я также люблю огурцы.

    Я тоже люблю помидоры - (you like tomatoes) so do I
    Я также люблю огурцы - in addition to tomatoes I like cucumbers

    So, "также" means "in addition" or "кроме того" in Russian. I'm not suggesting that this "rule" is watertight, but I can't think of an exception just now.

    I also agree with
    "Также" very often sounds too formal, really formal, and its usage could look strange/unnatural in many contexts.
    Because of that, my example doesn't sound very good but I wanted to highlight the difference in meaning.
    It should have been "А ещё я люблю огурцы".

    (Thanks to alexB for the correction in my English)

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    Re: тоже and также

    Quote Originally Posted by E-learner
    - Я люблю помидоры.
    - Я тоже люблю помидоры. Я также люблю огурцы.

    Я тоже люблю помидоры - (you like tomatoes) so do I
    Я также люблю огурцы - in addition to tomatoes I like cucumbers

    So, "также" means "in addition" or "кроме того" in Russian. I'm not suggesting that this "rule" is watertight, but I can't think of an exception just now.
    Can’t say anything against it except for tomatoes that I happened to eat lately were not as good as to like them.

    There’s also one more aspect to также I think, here's an example:
    Ты очень любишь помидоры.
    Я также (сильно) люблю помидоры - my liking of tomatoes is as intense as yours
    You may even make up the following not so elegant a construction:
    Я тоже также люблю помидоры – You like tomatoes, I like them too – тоже. You like them very much; I like them as much as you do - также.
    также needs to be stressed here, I mean by intonation.

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    Re: тоже and также

    Quote Originally Posted by alexB
    There’s also one more aspect to также I think, here's an example:
    Ты очень любишь помидоры.
    Я так_же (сильно) люблю помидоры - my liking of tomatoes is as intense as yours
    You are confusing "также" и "так же".

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    Re: тоже and также

    Indeed.
    Don't mix up:
    также (also) and так же (the same way)
    тоже (too) and то же (the same [thing])
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: тоже and также

    Попробуй, с ихними разберись, когда свои по полкам расставить не всегда получается!

  8. #8
    JackBoni
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    Re: тоже and также

    It's a pity you haven't provided examples that confuse you.
    I just find it confusing that can both be translated by the same English words. Olya, can you think of any examples in which также would not be considered too formal? Looking at the two, the latter does seem quite formal to me, even though my knowledge of Russian is not very extensive. How would these sentences be translated into Russian?

    I like to play tennis. Anya likes to play tennis, too.
    I like to go ice skating, too - would these two examples be translated by the same word?

    Can someone explain the use of "a ещё", as well? Olya suggested it a little earlier on, but I'm not familiar with it.

    Thanks
    Jack

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    Re: тоже and также

    I like to play tennis. Anya likes to play tennis, too. - Я люблю играть в теннис. Аня тоже любит играть в теннис.
    "Аня также любит играть в теннис" sounds formal/unnatural.

    I like to go ice skating, too - А ещё я люблю кататься на коньках (if you mean that in addition to playing tennis you like ice skating).
    "Также/кроме того, я люблю кататься на коньках" sounds formal/unnatural ("кроме того" sounds a bit better).

    "А ещё" means ˜"and more".
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  10. #10
    JackBoni
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    Re: тоже and также

    Can someone look at these three sentences to make sure I've understood... thanks.

    Анна любит кататься на коньках а ещё она любит играть в теннис.

    Мама любит путешествовать. Я тоже.

    Джек любит слушать "машина время" а ещё ДДТ.

    When talking about bands, do their names decline?

    Jack

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    Re: тоже and также

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Анна любит кататься на коньках, а ещё она любит играть в теннис.

    Мама любит путешествовать. Я тоже.

    Джек любит слушать "Машину времени", а ещё ДДТ.

    When talking about bands, do their names decline?
    Generally, names that are or look like abbreviations do not decline.
    Names that consist of ordinary words decline.

    There are also strange names that I myself don't know what to do with. "Чайф", for example. What gender is it? How to decline it? Some people might say '"Чайфу" устроили хороший приём'. Other people could say '"Чайфе" устроили хороший приём'. I wouldn't say either of those. I would rephrase it so that there wasn't any need at all to decline it: 'Группе "Чайф" устроили хороший приём'.

  12. #12
    JackBoni
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    Re: тоже and также

    It's interesting to think that even native speakers have trouble with certain parts of their own language. I would decline Чайф as though it were masculine, as it ends in a consonant, but I don't know if it is as simple as that, really.

    Спасибо за исправления.

    Джек

  13. #13
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    Re: тоже and также

    I would rephrase it so that there wasn't any need at all to decline it: 'Группе "Чайф" устроили хороший приём'.
    The problem with 'Группе "Чайф"...' is that it sounds official so I would write it, rather, not say. In a conversation I would decline it, after all ("Чайфу" устроили...).

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    Re: тоже and также

    Generally, names that are or look like abbreviations do not decline.
    The reason I said "generally" is that in an informal setting people could break this "rule".
    For example, if I can't stand ДДТ and they come to our city I could say "Только ДДТы нам тут не хватало". That would express my contempt for them.

  15. #15
    JackBoni
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    Re: тоже and также

    Thanks for the info. I will keep that in mind. How do you say "to keep something in mind" in Russian?

    Getting back to the topic, are there any situations where также is not considered too formal, or when a ещё is considered too informal? Presumably также is also used in other contexts, perhaps in combination with other words with a different meaning.. I don't know, I'm probably making it too complicated.

    Jack

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    Re: тоже and также

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Thanks for the info. I will keep that in mind. How do you say "to keep something in mind" in Russian?
    запомнить.
    Я это запомню.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Getting back to the topic, are there any situations where также is not considered too formal, or when a ещё is considered too informal?
    If the whole context is formal, then "также" doesn't sound too formal.
    I don't think "a ещё" could be formal in any context, it's too colloquial.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: тоже and также

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Thanks for the info. I will keep that in mind.
    If I were to write it in Russian I would write
    "Спасибо за информацию (or 'объяснение'). Буду иметь в виду."

    "Я это учту" is also possible.

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