Thread: страдательные причастия прошедшего времени (Very Difficult Question)

I believe you can easily find many illogical phenomena in Greek as well if care to search.

In Greeks about the 30% of linguistics issues cannot be explained (i.e. you have just one letter sound like и we have five: ι, υ, ει, οι, η). However the 100% can be explained if you have knowledge of ancient Greeks. Greek language is the only one that the mathematical system of numbers, the musical system of notes and linguistic system of letters are united (I don't bother to explain). What matters that even the most insignificant detail has a specific rule explaining it (the only language in the word that has this privilege). Unfortunately very few people possess this knowledge usually those who studied ancient Greeks (in there majority Greeks, Cypriots, Germans and English). I don't encourage anyone to learn Greek ... if I had a choice I would have never learned Greek

P.S. Advice from a moderate Greek: Never insult the Greek language or history in front of a Greek or a Cypriot ... you have a big probability to be insulted back. This is just a cultural knowledge in case ...

Honestly, I've never found much use to studying all these rules regarding the different причастия. I learned how to use them just by reading a lot of Russian, learning different songs, and listening to people speaking. I once got a job tutoring Russian and that was probably the first time I ever actually sat down and studied the rules, but I used all these different forms every day in my speaking. Okay, I sometimes get confused about the difference between предъявляемый and предъявленный, but that's just me.

I think it makes a lot of sense to learn fixed expressions using these forms - the first one that comes to mind is считанные секунды, but there are many others. Once you know enough of these expressions you should be able to form new sentences based on the models you already know. For example, from считанные секунды, it's easy to come up with прочитанные книги or even протраченные деньги without even thinking about the rule behind it.

At least that's my opinion.

Originally Posted by John_Douglas

Honestly, I've never found much use to studying all these rules regarding the different причастия. I learned how to use them just by reading a lot of Russian, learning different songs, and listening to people speaking.

Thanks for sharing this. Always wanted to find someone using a listen-fisrt approach in learning russian.
I know it works just fine for English. But i was wondering if it provides the same result with russian having all theese multiforms of words. And it sounds great.

I don't want to make myself look silly saying I've never learned grammar rules cos I'm not sure if there are many of them in the english language but i do want to say that I'm not going to. We analyze grammar for 10 years in school and yet we end up with no language skills at all.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

(i.e. you have just one letter sound like и we have five: ι, υ, ει, οι, η).

No, we also have many letters pronounced like [и] in unstressed syllables:
лиса [л’иса́]
леса [л’иса́]
плясать [пл’иса́т’]
часы [ч’исы́]

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

However the 100% can be explained if you have knowledge of ancient Greeks. Greek language is the only one that the mathematical system of numbers, the musical system of notes and linguistic system of letters are united (I don't bother to explain). What matters that even the most insignificant detail has a specific rule explaining it (the only language in the word that has this privilege).

Unfortunately, I don’t speak Ancient Greek. So I can’t be sure, but your phrase sounds like some kind of misconception.
Yes, every natural language has many ‘illogical’ things that appear to be perfectly logical when you learn the history of the language. But Ancient Greek was a natural language too. As a natural language, it also had many ‘illogical’ things that appeared to be logical when you learned its history — Ancient-ancient Greek or Proto-Indo-European, and so on.

As for using the same symbols for writing words, numbers, and musical notes, this seems to have no relation to the language itself.

If you mean the orthography only, then yes, Ancient Greek has a phonetic orthography with a strict correspondence between the letters and the phonemes. That’s not because of the uniqueness of the language or anything like that. That’s because the phonology of the language had not yet changed significantly since the time when the writing system had appeared. A language with a short writing tradition usually has less complex spelling rules than a typical language with a long-standing writing tradition.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

In Greeks about the 30% of linguistics issues cannot be explained (i.e. you have just one letter sound like и we have five: ι, υ, ει, οι, η). However the 100% can be explained if you have knowledge of ancient Greeks.

Historical spelling-pronunciation mismatch is a must for any more or less phonetic alphabet. Obviously Greek should be a leader. Internal contradictions in spoken grammar is a different matter.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Greek language is the only one that the mathematical system of numbers, the musical system of notes and linguistic system of letters are united (I don't bother to explain).

Hmm... AFAIK system of letter number standards exists for all major alphabets and even for many different languages separately. In Russian such system exists as well, probably brought from the Byzantium along with the very alphabet. But such systems are nowadays almost completely out of use (except Roman one, which is still very limited) and most people are unaware about them. You want to say that Greeks actually widely use alphabetical numbers now? Even in phone numbers?

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

P.S. Advice from a moderate Greek: Never insult the Greek language or history in front of a Greek or a Cypriot ... you have a big probability to be insulted back. This is just a cultural knowledge in case ...

You think it can be taken as an insult? Most Russians actually proud of the illogicality and complication of their language even if sometimes hypocritically complain of that to the foreigners... So be sure that you pleased all native speakers by your complains.