Thread: Да здравствует грамматика Ленина!

I saw a photo in a book yesterday of an exhibit at the Central Lenin Museum in Simbirsk. In the photo, there is a display that shows Lenin's handwriting, presumably as a school boy, which said "Зовут меня Владимир Ильич Ульянов. Родился я в Симбирске 10ом 1870 года" Obviously, I know what this means and I know that it's grammatically correct, since Russian isn't always as strict about word order as English but what I'm curious about is the way the sentance is composed. I've always said "Меня зовут... and Я родился" in that order. Is there a reason? Do we foreign speakers say it differently than the average Russian? Is it because it was written in childhood, was it a regional thing, or is there a special emphasis? Or is it simply Владимир Ильич's personal style or completely random?

It doesn't have anything to do with him being a kid or his bad grammar or anything regional. I get the feeling hes trying to emphazise something. Exactly what could be hard to translate word for word into english. unfortunelately I can't Help you much further.

I would say this word order creates a narrative feeling, akin to fairy tales... It is really hard to explain.... You can say that the verb gets emphasized rather than Я, but that doesn't really explain the feeling I get from reading the text...

Originally Posted by MikeM

but that doesn't really explain the feeling I get from reading the text...

Thats exactly what I was meaning to say. When you said emphasizing the verb more then Я its almost like hes saying "They call me Vladimir ilyich Ul'yanov". Even though меня зовут... Literally is "they call me" it is the equaivlant of like for example in english. "They call me Arnold, I am the governator of California". Instead of "My name is Arnold".


Thats just the feeling that i get from it. Im probly completely and 100% wrong, which more often than not, the case turns out to be so.

Anyways if i was going to translate it to english i would say something like "They call me Vladimir Il. Ul'yanov. Simbirsk is where I was born in the year of 1870". Almost like hes narating himself. Even at a young age, he knew he was destined for greatness

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Almost like hes narating himself.

That's it Now, why he was writing in this way I don't know, but generally we (people coming from Russia) don't like stereotypes, so we are trying to say things differently every time That's why I am puzzled when someone asks me to give Russian words for Hi, or for typical Russian toast. I would be bored to death if I had to say cheers every time when raising glasses Of course, the best toasts come from Georgia, we are only bad imitators

Thanks for the replies, Dogboy and MikeM. That's a crazy nuance for a Westerner to get -- the same grammatical arrangement takes on a different tone when slightly rearranged. I do completely understand what you mean, though (good explanations that is to say). After reading this, I wonder if perhaps this was NOT written in childhood (a very cocky kid if so!), but rather later to add the an "epic" or "folksy" feeling to the Lenin story. The only reason I necessarily thought it was a child writing was b/c it was a)sloppy (but then again many adults have sloppy writing) and b)it seemed like such rudimentary sentances -- but when explained as a "narration," it's not so basic sounding (I just couldn't see V.I. Lenin starting a paper by saying "I'm Lenin. I was born in 1870" -- if someone did that they'd probably be laughed at).

Update: Here's a pic I googled for, for those interested:

If you try to make questions to that, you'll see that the answers start with the last word of each question.

Как вас зовут? - Зовут меня Владимир Ильич Ульянов.
Где вы родились? - Родился я в Симбирске.
Где вы учились? - Учился я в Казанском университете.
и т.п.

So it might look Lenin was anwsering some supposed questions, it might be a sort of rhetorical style or something.

Originally Posted by Barmaley

Here's a pic I googled for, for those interested

1. This handwriting is definitely of an adult.
2. It must have been edited to get rid of pre-reform letters.

Wow, thats an interesting picture. I'll sure have to add Simbirsk to my list of russian cities =).

BTW glad I could help.

Underneath the display, a little plaque reads:

Было так мало бумаги и так немного карандашей тогда, что дети должны были писать свои упражнения на стенах зубной пастой.

Originally Posted by mishau_

If you try to make questions to that, you'll see that the answers start with the last word of each question.
So it might look Lenin was anwsering some supposed questions, it might be a sort of rhetorical style or something.

Typically though, if you're answering questions in Russian, you want to "get to the point," and supply the requested info right away, right? For instance "В Симбирске (я родился)," would be what the average Russian would say?

I'll sure have to add Simbirsk to my list of russian cities =).

Uhm... sure! I found this in a really odd little book called "Places Associated with Lenin in the Volga Region: an Illustrated Guidebook." It devotes about 200 pages to Simbirsk, Kazan, and Samara. I have no idea why anybody would write this or even buy it (except me, of course)

Underneath the display, a little plaque reads:
Было так мало бумаги и так немного карандашей тогда, что дети должны были писать свои упражнения на стенах зубной пастой.

OK, I'm not sure whether to cringe at this (it's true) or laugh at this (it's a joke); I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't -- I'll either be really insensitive to their plight or an uptight blockhead, so I'll just be both:

I would buy it. Lenin is THE MAN!

I'll sure have to add Simbirsk to my list of russian cities =).

It's now called Ulianowsk (Ульяновск) where armed to the teeth policemen assault children.

http://www.gazeta.ru/2005/12/27/last183280.shtml

Originally Posted by mishau_

It's now called Ulianowsk (Ульяновск) where armed to the teeth policemen assault children.

http://www.gazeta.ru/2005/12/27/last183280.shtml

I'm not sure I got the entire article (did the juveniles actually DO something, or was this just a round-up of suspicious looking punks?), but I certainly got this:

"Один из милиционеров, требуя от подростка поехать вместе с ним в отделение, на вопрос подростка: «По какому праву вы меня задерживаете?» - упер ствол пистолета ему в глаз и ответил: «Вот мое право!». "

File that one somewhere between "Hasta la vista, baby!" and "Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!"

Originally Posted by Barmaley

OK, I'm not sure whether to cringe at this (it's true) or laugh at this (it's a joke); I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't -- I'll either be really insensitive to their plight or an uptight blockhead, so I'll just be both:

кто знает, как сказать "you must be sh*ting me!" на разговорном русском языке?

Originally Posted by mishau_

It's now called Ulianowsk (Ульяновск) where armed to the teeth policemen assault children.

Awesome. Just the way Lenin would have wanted it.

Originally Posted by scotcher

кто знает, как сказать "you must be sh*ting me!" на разговорном русском языке?

I guess in one word - Пи*дишь! Stress is important here.

OK, I'm not sure whether to cringe at this (it's true) or laugh at this (it's a joke); I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't -- I'll either be really insensitive to their plight or an uptight blockhead, so I'll just be both:

Of course it's wrong, Underneath the display there was a line


Время было голодное. Хлеба на все не хватало, поэтому икру намазывали прямо на колбасу.