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Thread: в... толпе люди; 'in the.. crowd of people' or 'in the.. crowd (there were) people?

  1. #1
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    в... толпе люди; 'in the.. crowd of people' or 'in the.. crowd (there were) people?

    'Он знал, что теперь у него за спиною на помост градом летят бронзовые монеты, финики, что в воющей толпе люди, давя друг друга, лезут на плечи, чтобы увидеть своими глазами чудо – как человек, который уже был в руках смерти, вырвался из этих рук!'

    'He knew that behind his back on the platform thick and fast flew bronze coins, dates, that in the howling crowd of people, squashing one another, climbing on shoulders to see this miracle with their own eyes; how a man who was already in the hands of death, wrenched himself out of these hands!'

    в воющей толпе люди : because во/в requires genitive anyway, this sentence could mean:-
    1) 'in the howling crowd of people' or
    2) 'in the howling crowd, (there were) people...'

    It only makes sense in English (my translation doesn't) with the second version, but I don't understand why, because to me, the first version seems more correct on its own. Grammatically, as far as I know, the sentence can't mean 'in the howling crowd, (there were) people...', unless it has a comma after 'толпе'?

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    в воющей толпе люди, давя друг друга, лезут

    in the howling crowd, people are climbing

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    в толпе людей ... in the crowd of people...
    в толпе люди ... in the crowd, people...
    For some odd reason, I thought 'люди' was genitive. Another simple mistake, need o heck more thoroughly it seems.

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    " He knew that behind his back a hail of bronze coins and dates was showering the platform, that people in the whooping crowd, elbowing each other aside, were climbing on to shoulders to see a miracle with their own eyes--a man already in the arms of death and torn from their grasp!"


    http://www.masterandmargarita.eu/est...ita_glenny.pdf

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    Властелин maxmixiv's Avatar
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    во/в requires genitive anyway
    Here "в толпе" is prepositional.
    Sometimes в corresponds with the accusative.
    Never genitive.
    "Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."

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    Thanks Lampada, thats a more English sounding translation than my efforts.

    '...in the arms of death and torn from their grasp!'
    'в руках смерти, вырвался из этих рук!'

    Is 'этих' translated as 'their' simply to make it sound more dramatic (or just more readable to English readers,) or is there something here that means it must be the crowd he is being torn from, and not the hands of death?

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    Thanks maxmixiv, I think I generally need to slowly re-read, and then parse any sentences that I can't easily understand. Then check again, THEN post on here...

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    "этих рук" definitely says about hands of death (last used 'hands' in the sentence).

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    Thats what I thought too. I imagine the translation that Lampada found is just a bit more 'creative'.

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