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Thread: Библии or Библий or what?

  1. #1
    Ern
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    Библии or Библий or what?

    Greetings, Worshipful Experts!

    I'm new to this site, and am very glad to have found it.

    Any help with this passage from a recent news article would be much appreciated.

    "История манускрипта весьма примечательна. Выполненный в 4 веке на греческом языке на пергаменте, этот труд содержал в себе канонические тексты Старого и Нового завета, а также два апокрифических библейских текста: "Апостол Варнава" [sic, should be "Послание" rather than "Апостол"] и "Пастырь Гермы".

    "В течение многих веков они(1) хранились в греческом православном монастыре святой Екатерины на Синайском полуострове (Египет). С течением времени некоторые фрагменты его были утрачены, но в целом(2) Синайский Кодекс оставался древнейшим из сохранившихся полным списком Библии, которая к моменту написания как раз обрела свое каноническое содержание.(3)"

    (1) I expected "он" (referring to манускрипт or труд) rather than "они". Does "они" refer to "канонические тексты"?

    (2) what exactly does "в целом" mean here? "In its [the Codex's] completeness"? "On the whole (for the most part)"?

    (3) shouldn't "Библии" be "Библий"? If Библии is correct, why?

    Does this final passage mean something like, "the Sinaitic Codex remained the oldest of the preserved-with-full-contents Bibles, which [meaning the Bible] at the moment of writing [of the Codex] was just taking on its [complete] canonical contents."? That is, does "которая" refer to Bible, and does "к моменту написания" refer to the moment of the wrting of the Codex?

    Thanks in advance. Be nice.

    Ern

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    Библия ---- Библии (prep)
    Nouns ending -ия or -ие in the nominative, change to -ии in the prepositional.

    В России
    Ingenting kan stoppa mig
    In Post-Soviet Russia internet porn downloads YOU!

  3. #3
    Ern
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    Thanks for the speedy reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    Библия ---- Библии (prep)
    Nouns ending -ия or -ие in the nominative, change to -ии in the prepositional.

    В России
    I know that, but I don't yet see why this word should be in the prepositional. What is the preposition? "В" from "в целом"?

    в целом Синайский Кодекс оставался древнейшим из сохранившихся полным списком Библии

    "in the whole Bible the Sinaitic Codex remains the oldest of those preserved with complete contents"? That's really strange word order, and "in the whole Bible" doesn't make sense. I'm prob. missing sometheing really obvious, but I still don't get it.

    Ern

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    N
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ern
    в целом Синайский Кодекс оставался древнейшим из сохранившихся полным списком Библии
    My try:

    all in all, the Sinaitic Codex remained the oldest of the preserved-with-full-contents copy of Bible

    в целом - all in all; by and large
    список Библии - handwriten copy of Bible


    And you are right "они" does refer to "канонические тексты" and "два апокрифических библейских текста".

  5. #5
    Властелин
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    It's not prepositional here but genetive that has the same "ии" ending.
    "Happy new year, happy new year
    May we all have a vision now and then
    Of a world where every neighbour is a friend"

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    Ern
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendy
    It's not prepositional here but genetive that has the same "ии" ending.
    Thank you for the reply, Friendly.

    > в целом Синайский Кодекс оставался древнейшим из сохранившихся полным списком Библии

    Why is it genitive singular, rather than genitive plural?

    I think this should be, "из сохранившихся ... библий" (gen. pl.) rather than "из сохранившихся ... Библии" (gen. sing.). Maybe it is the term "полный список" that is adding to my confusion.

    Ern

  7. #7
    Ern
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    Thanks for your reply, with its several helpful responses.

    список Библии - handwriten copy of Bible
    Maybe this term is confusing me. I thought it meant "contents" of the Bible.

    Anyway. What I really want to know is: Does the sentence as written seem fine to you native Russian speakers?

    " ... из сохранившихся полным списком Библии" is OK?

    " ... из сохранившихся полным списком Библий" is not?

    Thanks, one and all, for your replies.

    Ern

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    Ern, I would be inclined to agree with you on this one. My only guess is that there is a really an implied "copies" in here that is taking the genitive plural you are looking for, and then we can go ahead and say "[copies] of the Bible." Of course, it could be a typo.

  9. #9
    N
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ern
    " ... из сохранившихся полным списком Библии" is OK?

    " ... из сохранившихся полным списком Библий" is not?
    Those fragments don't make sense. Look at the whole phrase:

    в целом Синайский Кодекс (singular) оставался древнейшим из сохранившихся полным списком Библии (singular)

    i.e.:

    в целом Синайский Кодекс оставался древнейшим полным списком Библии (singular) из сохранившихся (полных списков Библий) (plural).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by N
    в целом Синайский Кодекс оставался древнейшим полным списком Библии (singular) из сохранившихся (полных списков Библий) (plural).
    Thanks. . . . Oh, now I see! That makes sense. Where I really went wrong was in thinking that "список" meant "list" rather than "example" or "copy.

    This is great. I really appreciate the help.

    Ah, well. It only took me a week to see it.

    . . . Guess I'd better reread the article with the proper meaning of "список" in mind! Every time I read "полный список" I'd think, "full list (of the Bible, or something . . . maybe it's a technical term)."

    BTW, the article is here:

    http://www.newsru.com/religy/10mar2005/codex.html

    I haven't found this news story in any English language or French sources (my only choices besides Russian), and it's quite interesting.

    Many thanks to you, N, and to all who wrote about this quotation.

    Best,

    Ern

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