бусурманам

what does this word mean - is it a country?

It's a dative plural from бусурман / басурман - stranger, foreigner, usually who is not christian (most likely muslim). The word is almost abusive, but since it's old-fashioned, it could sound ironical, too. I find this word very funny :)

Бусурманин. :)

Here are two interesting explanations:

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Basurman, or Bursurman, mutilated from Mussulman, is an archaic and contemptuous designation for Mohammedans and in general for all who do not profess the Greek Orthodox faith.

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Dubnow, Simon and Friedlaender, Israel, History of the Jews in Russia and Poland 35 n.2 (1916) Link

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The term Bursurman for Muslims in the old Russian annals was from the language of Khwarazm in the Arabo-Persian script current until the Mongol conquest of the Volga region in the 13th century.

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Rahul, Ram, March of Central Asia 156 (2002) Link

This word nowadays can be used to refer to any foreigner not just muslim. And in the past, any person that belonged to non-orthodox confession could be called with this word.

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Originally Posted by Ramil

This word nowadays can be used to refer to any foreigner not just muslim. And in the past, any person that belonged to non-orthodox confession could be called with this word.

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Это точно.
"Вот затрещали барабаны -
И отступили бусурманы." (с) Лермонтов

Бусурманин - иноземец ... А вообще исторически бусурманин это искаженное от мусульманин

What would be a cutting remark, in Russian, in response to someone who has used that word to me?

...and I am not a Muslim btw, not that it makes this remark from this prudish imbecile any less infuriating...

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Originally Posted by randir

Бусурман_ - иноземец ...

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The plural is бусурмане, and the singular is бусурман, not бусурманин.

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Originally Posted by kid

What would be a cutting remark, in Russian, in response to someone who has used that word to me?

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This word is not so much offensive, and depending on context, it could be even a joke.
But if you want, you can tell him, for example: Поскреби себя, и найдешь татарина. :) Although this answer maybe too clever. :lol:

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Originally Posted by kid

What would be a cutting remark, in Russian, in response to someone who has used that word to me?

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По крайней мере, я знаю кто мой отец.

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Originally Posted by kid

...and I am not a Muslim btw, not that it makes this remark from this prudish imbecile any less infuriating...

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I wouldn't fret over that too much. While it does mean Muslim, it's often used ironically to denote any foreigner. This word is very archaic and thus has a funny ring to it, and Russians like using funny sounding words. :)

Some people use it jokingly, and even if they are somewhat serious, it's just mildly offensive. There are much more offensive words in Russian, I assure you. ;)

PS. My Grandma used to call me and my brother like that, when we were naughty. I have no idea why.

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Originally Posted by BappaBa

По крайней мере, я знаю кто мой отец.

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Sorry, it's pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Оля

Поскреби себя, и найдешь татарина.

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Cool! :D But probably you're right. It's too clever for the random bickering.

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Originally Posted by Оля

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Originally Posted by randir

Бусурман_ - иноземец ...

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The plural is бусурмане, and the singular is бусурман, not бусурманин.

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В словарях, к моему удивлению, басурман.

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БАСУРМАН. pl. -ане. В старину: иноземец, иноверец (преимущественно о мусульманине).
ж. басурманка.
прил. басурманский.

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Originally Posted by Yul'a

В словарях, к моему удивлению, басурман.

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All four versions are correct: басурман, басурманин, бусурман, бусурманин. In Dahl's dictionary you can see even the fifth one: бусорман (!).

There's no point in arguing over spelling, when the word itself is a distorted and colloquial archaic version of the 'foreign' word Muslim ("мусульман"/"мусульманин").

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Originally Posted by Оля

Поскреби себя, и найдешь татарина.

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Nice!! Never heard that expression, but it sounds very sharp. I guess, you could probably make use of it since the person using the word "бусурман" is probably educated enough to get offended by the above. :)

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

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Originally Posted by Оля

Поскреби себя, и найдешь татарина.

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Nice!! Never heard that expression, but it sounds very sharp. I guess, you could probably make use of it since the person using the word "бусурман" is probably educated enough to get offended by the above. :)

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Come on, guys! The phrase itself is clever and ironic and is a perfect answer, but I doubt you can offend anybody with it. :D It's famous and Russians use it about themselves freely, mostly in it's original form - "Поскреби русского - найдешь татарина" (Scrape off a Russian and you'll find a Tatar).

It's a quote from some French Russophobe treatise, which was so often mentioned by Russian XIX century writers, that it became almost a proverb. Many Russian humorists use it too.

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

All four versions are correct: басурман, басурманин, бусурман, бусурманин.

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Gramota.ru offers only бусурман / басурман. No бу(а)сурманин.

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

Never heard that expression

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Are you kidding?

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Scrape off a Russian and you'll find a Tatar.

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It would probably be more like "scratch off" but other than that I totally accept what you're saying. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Оля

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

Never heard that expression

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Are you kidding?

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Да ладно... я же не ходячая энциклопедия! :oops:

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Originally Posted by Оля

Gramota.ru offers only бусурман / басурман. No бу(а)сурманин

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.
Gramota.ru is not an ultimate authority.
Словарь Ушакова в 4 т. (1935 г.), а также словарь Ефремовой (2006 г.):
"БАСУРМА'НИН, а, мн. ане, ан, м. (нар.-поэт.). То же, что басурман."

Через "У" в современных словарях не нашла, но не раз видела в книгах. Вполне очевидно, что по аналогии с мусульманином, иногда добавляли окончание -ин.

Thanks for all the replies guys, I think your discussion was actually very interesting!

Однако вы плохо Даля смотрите ))) Внимательнее надо быть
Значение слова "БУСУРМАН" в толковом словаре Даля


БУСУРМАН - , см. БАСУРМАН.


БАСУРМАН - , бусурман, босурман, бесермен, басурманин м. басурманка ж. басурманщина ж. собират. неверный, нехристианин; особ. мусульманин, а иногда всякий неправославный; всякий иноземец и иноверец, в неприязненном значении, особенно азиятец или ТУРОК. басурманский, относящийся до басурмана. басурманская (бусурманская) трава, растение см. бодяк. басурманство ср. басурманщина; состояние, вера басурмана; мусульманство, исламизм, мохамеданство. басурманить кого (более употреб. с предлогом о), обращать в мусульманство, в неверие; приучать к обычаям иноземным. басурманиться, принимать веру или обычаи басурманские. наши бары за морем басурманятся, а домой воротятся, свое и не любо.

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Originally Posted by randir

Однако вы плохо Даля смотрите ))) Внимательнее надо быть
Значение слова "БУСУРМАН" в толковом словаре Даля
[...]

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Да речь шла о том, что слово "бусурманИН" есть, но в словарях его как бы и нет. И где ты его увидел у Даля? Ну-ка ткни пальцем. Я не вижу. ;)

http://www.dal.sci-lib.com/word000963.html

http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enc2p/205986

Достаточно или еще ссылки ... или вы под сомнения ставите?

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

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Originally Posted by Оля

Поскреби себя, и найдешь татарина.

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Nice!! Never heard that expression, but it sounds very sharp. I guess, you could probably make use of it since the person using the word "бусурман" is probably educated enough to get offended by the above. :)

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Come on, guys! The phrase itself is clever and ironic and is a perfect answer, but I doubt you can offend anybody with it. :D It's famous and Russians use it about themselves freely, mostly in it's original form - "Поскреби русского - найдешь татарина" (Scrape off a Russian and you'll find a Tatar).

It's a quote from some French Russophobe treatise, which was so often mentioned by Russian XIX century writers, that it became almost a proverb. Many Russian humorists use it too.

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I've always thought these words belonged to Turgenev.

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Originally Posted by Ramil

I've always thought these words belonged to Turgenev.

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The thing is they were quoted almost by everybody, but the phrase itself was said (or rather written) by some French author - Кюстен (I think, unless I invented his last name under the influence of Кубертен :)).
I've seen an LJ entry, there were posted ten or so links to different sources, in which these words were attributed to different people (Dostoevsky, Turgenev, Pushkin (!), etc.).

Короче, эти слова приписывают очень многим. И вероятно, все эти люди действительно их произносили. :)

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Originally Posted by randir

Достаточно или еще ссылки ... или вы под сомнения ставите?

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Что именно... ставим под сомнениЯ? Ты бы хоть посты внимательно прочитал.

Я сказал, что слово "бусурманин" (через "у" и с окончанием "-ин") тоже есть (видела в книгах), но не смогла подтвердить это ссылкой на словарную статью (не нашла). По тем ссылкам, что ты привел, ЕГО ТОЖЕ НЕТ.
Ну и что дальше? :)