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Thread: informal usage

  1. #1
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    informal usage

    Sometimes I've noted my Russian-speaking friends use "говорил" where I'd think you'd say "сказал." Is that common informal usage?

    Besides that, I've noticed them write 3rd person sg. forms with a soft sign, example:
    Я сегодня ходила в театр, тебе нравиться театр?

    BTW, what's with the ходила there? Shouldn't it be пошла? I've seen Russians use the indeterminate forms of the verbs of motion much different than the way they were explained in my books... If it's indeterminate motion, how is it possible to have a determined destination for such motion? Sometimes I think it looks more like you use "indeterminate" form for habitual action("I go to St. Petersburg every winter"), imperfective determinate for continuing action("I'm going(right now) to St. Petersburg), and perfective for perfective.

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    Re: informal usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Pravit
    Sometimes I've noted my Russian-speaking friends use "говорил" where I'd think you'd say "сказал." Is that common informal usage?
    Pravit, I have no clue where you'd think you'd say "сказал". Can you give an example? If you mean a situation where somebody says "я тебе говорил" meaning "I've told you (so)", then this is the correct (not informal) usage. In fact, we often use imperfective forms where you'd use Present Perfect in English.

    E.g.:
    Have you ever been to France? - Ты когда нибудь бывал во Франции/ездил во Францию?
    Yes, I have - Да, бывал.

    Besides that, I've noticed them write 3rd person sg. forms with a soft sign, example:
    Тебе нравиться театр?
    That is just bad spelling, just like people writing "there" instead of "their" or vice versa in English.

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    I've wondered the same thing. I know говорил is standard here, but if you go by the rules they teach us about perfective, it would seem if you told someone once in the past, it would be сказал. When would you then say "Я вам сказал"?

    Also, is the difference between спрашивать and расспрашивать just one of flavor?

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    Re: informal usage

    About that skazal/govoril, yeah, it was in that sort of situation. It was: Ты никогда не говорил, что пишешь стихи!

    Besides that, I've noticed them write 3rd person sg. forms with a soft sign, example:
    Тебе нравиться театр?
    That is just bad spelling, just like people writing "there" instead of "their" or vice versa in English.[/quote]

    So do they actually talk like that? BTW, what about the "khodil" thing(I edited my post)

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    pravit, i think when you studied indeterminate verbs you missed a part about them. You would say я ходил в театр and not пошёл. If you used пошёл it would mean you never came back, just that you set out for the theatre. If you said ya shla v teatr, it would mean I was on my way to the theatre/I was going to the theatre....(same thing). But xodil is basically saying, i went to the theatre. It can also be used in the example you came up with, meaning i go every day. repetition...

    Also, imperfective verbs are used when you have a nikogda, or a redko because those acts, despite never occuring are repetion. For example, I rarely go to the theatre. ya redko xozhu v teatr.

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    al
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    Re: informal usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Pravit
    That is just bad spelling, just like people writing "there" instead of "their" or vice versa in English.
    So do they actually talk like that? BTW, what about the "khodil" thing(I edited my post)
    The problem is that "-ться" and "-тся" are both pronounced as "-цца", and many Russians confuse those two endings (in fact, it is the most popular spelling mistake).
    Хорошо не просто там где нас нет, а там где нас никогда и не было.

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    Re: informal usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Pravit
    So do they actually talk like that? BTW, what about the "khodil" thing(I edited my post)
    Endings of infinitive and 3rd person sing of reflexive verbs (e.g. нравится and нравиться) are always pronounced in the same way ("нравитса"). That is the reason some people make this stupic mistake. As to "ходила", this is a standard usage. I can't quote the exact rule here, but if when you want to say that you have been somewhere or have visited some location, you often use an imperfective form of a verb.

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    Re: informal usage

    double-post

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    p.242 of the Bible:
    "Note that ходить type verbs can be used for a single round trip only in the past tense" (italics not mine)

    Also, isn't it the case that there's a rule regarding use of the imperfective in negatives (govoril/skazal)?
    Ah yes i looked it up in the Bible again p.151
    Where there is no action, use the imperfective:
    Она не звонила.
    Use of the perfective in the negative implies a failure to do something:
    Она не позвонила.
    She failed to phone - she was expected to do so.
    Море удачи и дачу у моря

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    Aha! Gah, I have a whole bunch of gaps in my Russian learning. I'm gonna have to hit the books again. Thanks everyone.

    However, I consider this very strange error. Wouldn't it be more work to put in that soft sign at the end? I mean, I would understand if someone made this error consistently(and actually thought that was how it was written), but the person who made that particular mistake usually writes it correctly.

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    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pravit
    However, I consider this very strange error. Wouldn't it be more work to put in that soft sign at the end? I mean, I would understand if someone made this error consistently(and actually thought that was how it was written), but the person who made that particular mistake usually writes it correctly.
    Somehow it is very tempting to put a soft sign there Even I sometimes when I'am writing have to stop and think for a second, should there be a 'ь' in a word or not.
    Хорошо не просто там где нас нет, а там где нас никогда и не было.

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