Where did the Russian system of declensions come from? The only other language that I know of that has it is Latin and I don't think they're related.
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Where did the Russian system of declensions come from? The only other language that I know of that has it is Latin and I don't think they're related.
Well, most, if not all slavic language... Serbian, Ukrainian, Belorussian, Croation... Etc.
German kinda declines its articles...
Die, Der, Der, Die.
Der, Den, Dem, Der...
Etc...
I dont know of any asain languages that do, though my knowledge of asain languages is kinda limited.
But I know that Suomi (Sami(Finnish)) Has something like 14 cases, which may or may not have declenions which closely relate with Russia.
Does English count?
I, me
He, him, his
We, us
etc...
Quote:
Originally Posted by basurero
No
Lame.
I know =(. Maybe that means german doesnt count either...
I don't know but personal pronouns are a pretty common thing in just about every language, thus excluding them from the argument... I think.
I heard that when they teach Japanese to Russian speakers they teach them that が (ga), か (ka), を (o) etc are like cases, but in English they teach them like particles. Anyway, what is the true definition of cases?
падежиQuote:
Originally Posted by basurero
their definiton of declension is very broad and technical (even including English!). I'm talking about cases like in russian; German doesn't have that. I'd be surprised if Tamil and those Indian languages did.Quote:
Originally Posted by basurero
I know that Punjab, or hindi does. I've breifly looked over thier grammar, and saw how a few nouns decline.
From Latin.Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
:oQuote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Должно заметить, что склонения сохранились в славянском так же богато, как в эллинском, едва уступают санскритскому и представляют даже падеж местный, еще не замеченный грамматиками, напр., в древних: яве, выну, долу, низу и пр. и в теперешней русской форме: в лесу, в саду, в виду и пр., которая отличается от дательного падежа перенесением ударения на последний слог, хотя падеж уже изменен необходимостью предлога. Очень легко понять причину оскудения спряжения славянского при неизменном богатстве склонений. Она та же самая, по которой большая часть корней у нас находится в существительном, а у санскрита — в глаголе, именно: бытовое направление славянской жизни и славянской мысли, отличающее их от их мудрствовавшей братьи — брахманов.
http://www.klikovo.ru/db/book/msg/6806
Многие говорят что падежи в славянских языках из санскрита (а про латинское происхождение падежей я первый раз слышу :o :?: )
I guess, it did not "come from" -- it was always there. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
Russian (as well, as Latin, Greek, Sanskrit...) it descendant of common Proto-Indoeuropean language. I'm almost sure it had cases. Of course, after 2-3 milleniums case system changed a lot, so the case systems of modern IE languages now are different, but they have something in common still.
Я все время это слышала на занятиях по латыни.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alware
Я вообще-то имела в виду именно систему падежей (мы взяли пять латинских и прибавили один свой). Что падежи были и раньше, это не вопрос. Просто в момент систематизации национальных грамматик все научные труды писались на латыни, и все вообще смотрели на латынь как на образец. Даже названия наших падежей - это калька с латыни: Nominativ (именительный), Genitiv (родительный), Dativ (дательный) и т.д.
Вопрос не про систематическое описание а про происхождениеQuote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Quote:
Where did the Russian system of declensions come from?
German does have cases and declension. There are four cases and both the noun (masc., neut. and pl.) and the article participate in declension. Adjectives are also declined, there are 3 types of declension depending on the context (Russian has only one).Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
Another example of language that has cases is Romanian. It has five cases (those of German + vocative).
YeapQuote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Just curious - what do you mean? :?Quote:
Originally Posted by pisces
I mean without article, with definite article, and after possesive pronouns or indefinite article. These are the contexts.Quote:
Originally Posted by kt_81
(schwache Deklination, starke Deklination und gemischte Deklination)
In German, as I understand, it's basically only one member of the "noun group" that carries full gender and case information. I.e. "der schwarze Hund", not "der schwarzer Hund". In Russian, everything attached to the noun (and the noun itself) is declined the same way according only to case and gender of the noun.
Another language that declines alot is Basque. 17 cases! I think I would die :o
Tabasaranish (Dagestan) has 48 cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
Uralic languages have many cases:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
* Erzya: 12 cases
* Estonian: 14 cases
* Finnish: 15 cases (or more)
* Hungarian: 18 cases (and some more case-like suffixes)
* Inari Sami: 9 cases
* Komi: 27 cases
* Moksha: 13 cases
* Nenets: 7 cases
* North Sami: 7 cases
* Udmurt: 16 cases
* Veps: 24 cases
(from Wikipedia).
But, AFAIK, cases in these languages are relatively simple (one or a few suffices for each case).
There you goQuote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Ahh, OK, now it's clear. :) I've never learned it that way. I, basically, know what is right but not exactly why it is. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pisces
Не поняла.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alware
[quote=Оля]Не поняла.[/quote:o0g5rqsr]Quote:
Originally Posted by Alware
I mean - who did count? I personally heard of fifty two
Philologists. Anyway there are more then 40 cases in this language.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alware
One can hear about 46, 48, 52 or 64 (etc) ones. That's not the fact of the matter.
Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
That's the matter of fact.