I want to improve my English, but don't know what to begin with.
What's the main feature of poor using foreign language?
How do you think, what should foreigner get rid of first of all to sound more natural?
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I want to improve my English, but don't know what to begin with.
What's the main feature of poor using foreign language?
How do you think, what should foreigner get rid of first of all to sound more natural?
If you are older than 14-15, you will never sound like a native speaker. :cry:
You notice all of those things, but I think grammatical mistakes are the most conspicuous.
Not everyone uses slang or has a big vocabulary, and I think speed comes with practice. Using strange words is noticable but if its done properly I thing it sounds better than using typical words but messing up the grammar.
My 2 cents.
Slaughter yourself and reincarnate in new land :twisted:
Well, I don't even dream of sounding like native speaker. I just want my English to be pleasant to listen to. If you know what I mean...
DagothWarez, thanks a lot, I prefer to be russian and learn English, but not vice versa. :wink:
You can't get rid of your accent but you want to make it as slight as you can. Slight accent might be cute, strong one - never. You can't get rid of grammatical mistakes but you want to make them as rarely as you can.Quote:
Originally Posted by mariashara
I think that most people would disagree with this statement. Only a few "perfectionists" would think this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh
А если серьезно, то по-моему, очень от слуха это все зависит. Не совсем от музыкального, но что-то вроде того. Есть такие люди, которые наверное, привыкли слушать только себя, так у них наверное никогда не получится. Например политики. Тот же Горбачев по-русски так и не научился разговаривать или Явлинский, например. С точки зрения ошибок и словарного запаса, все неплохо. Но звучит он так противно, что подташнивает слегка. Вывод. Тренируй слух. Как не знаю. Кстати у тебя спутниковая антенна есть? Очень способствует. 8)
I do not think this is the case; it is not easy to do but it is possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh
I've met several people who spoke Russian without any accent and were pretty much undistinguishable from native speakers, and a few more who were very close.
У Горбача наитипичнейшее южно-русское произношение, от которого он не пожелал (или не смог) избавиться за годы, проведённые в Москве. Явлинский ИМХО вполне нормально говорит по-русски.
От слуха да, зависит.
Есть преподаватели, помогающие избавиться от акцента, некоторые очень хорошие (и, соответственно, дорогие).
Ошибки, которые делает неграмотный носитель языка (ихний, большеватый (вместо великоватый), лаболатория и т.д.) сильно отличаются от ошибок, допускаемых иностранцем, изучающим язык.
i think its as simple as some people can do accents some can't. some can run fast, some can't. also it probably depends on what languages you're trying to speak in relation to where you're from. for example, there was a chinese girl in my russain class, and sweet jesus, she sounded like a robot when speaking russian. it was like я го вор ю по русс ки.
most dutch people who speak englsih pronounce fine with only a small amount of accent.
as for me, people would believe i was russian until i droped grammar mistakes, but it was enough to get russian studant prices for stuf mwaaaaaahaaaa :twisted:
Весь вопрос в том, кто производит лучшее впечатление:
а) иностранец, который, возможно, делает грамматические ошибки, но при этом разговаривает живым, образным языком и/или почти без акцента;
б) иностранец, который говорит грамматически правильно, но с очень сильным акцентом и фразами, напоминающими упражнения из учебника.
Мне кажется, что первый.
Movies, watch a lot of American movies. In no time, you'll be speaking like Bruce Willis. Caution: Do not watch Arnold Schwarzenegger movies.
Otherwise, from your choices, I'd say grammatical mistakes sticks out the most. Word choice next, and accent third. If you get the first 2 down right, you'll sound like Arnold (a Russian sounding Arnold that is), so you really need to consider the accent too.
How about with foreign speakers of Russian, Im sure its pretty much the same, the clues that the speaker is foreign.
I think all these things are important, and there is no single answer - the most important thing for you is the one you are the least good at.Quote:
Originally Posted by mariashara
I'd say that slow rate of speech is rarely a problem for Russian speakers, at least as far as standard American English goes: the natural rate of speech in Russian is quite a bit higher, so what may seem slow to you would often sound OK to americans.
In general, I'd say that for Russian speakers, the largest issue in English is the accent. If their English is really poor and they had little speaking practice, strange words and other stylistic mistakes stand out too.
Я имел в виду его английский. Довелось слушать его перлы по BBC, принеприятнейшие впечатление.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh
I am der ubergubernator fur Kalifornien uhaaaaaaa :twisted:Quote:
Originally Posted by siberiangoddess
You will be pleasant to listen to as long as you can express yourself even moderately. There is no reason for you to try to lose your accent unless you have some particular reason that you want to pass for a native speaker. If you do want to pass for a native speaker I'd suggest that you hire a voice coach as it is very difficult to do this without help unless you are gifted in this area. I know this from experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by mariashara
If I were you I would not worry about it!
I learned English by songs, when you sing it's easier to get rid of the accent. I mastered my German and English accent in the age of 16-17, almost adult. I still have some slight accent when I speak both of them but but it's barely noticeable.Quote:
Originally Posted by mariashara
When you sing you imitate everything - sounds, intonation. Of course, singing is different from normal speaking but you can improve your accent greatly. Sing even if you can't sing, it's much more fun than reading along with a tape/CD, which is also very efficient.
It's my advice for learners of all languages, not just English.
If you've got an accent in English,... cherish it,.. American girls love it,..You can say anything you want and they'll still like it.
Is that you Arnold? So when is Terminator IV coming out, oh and Twins 2? LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by DagothWarez
If your Russian accent is strong, reducing it is an important thing to do, imho.
It does not sound particularly pleasant, and many ppl (especially older folks who lived through a Cold War, and are now in a position to give you job interviews and stuff) tend to be suspicious towards such speakers (unlike certain other accents, like British/Australian for example which has an inverse effect). Of course this is not universal, but it is still common enough.
On the other hand, a _slight_ accent is usually OK and some people will find it cute.
In addition to songs, I'd mention audiobooks - some of them are read very professionally, and it makes a _huge_ difference when you are trying to imitate or learn new sounds. George Guidall (e.g. American Gods by Neil Gaiman here, a great book btw) was particularly good in my opinion.
And yes, a "language coach" may help a lot - but only if she is good at it and knows what she is doing, and speaks very clearly.
A random native speaker is not going to help too much. Although if your accent is really strong she may still help, at least by locating things that you need to work on. But at some point people without training will not be able to do this anymore. They'd just be able to tell you that something is not right, but not exactly what, because some issues are rather obscure.
I'd like to (what's the word..) (oh right! echo) Anatoli's advice about singing. In another life this process helped me greatly to learn German, British, (some italian) and even English.
The "key" identifiers with accent are for one the beautiful russian R.
You will have to lose this, or rather it is a big chunk of a starting point if you do. (I believe telling someone to "lose their R" is sacralidge!)
Also, I understand your wanting to speak as a native would speak. Their are enough of us on here who are like that too. (only the other way around).
Personally,
I believe that russians who sound more english get higher paid jobs than those that don't (america).
But I still appreciate hearing the russian accent on the english language--
They are the same sound ...with a difference.
The difference is that yours is "complex"
(help here appreciated-also with "L"(I think))
You have to learn to not ...use your tounge to carry on the sound.
Even if you sound to yourself like a bleating sheep for a while, try this, and you will sound native with alot of practice.
sheesh! a tough explaination--anybody?
I think the Russian r is pretty in an accent. :cry:
Why is there so much space under my signature?
I'm not too worried about my accent. It's not very strong (at least I have no problems with R and TH). And I have nobody to TALK with in English anyway. But I'm not so sure about my grammar.
I know I make mistakes, but nobody corrects 'em. :(
What do you think about my grammar and vocabulary, analyzing my posts. What should I pay attention to?
I think maybe because of the length of your last signature. Try deleting this one and saving profile. Then go back in and repost it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TriggerHappyJack
huh??? I dunno....
I have problems with translating religious text in English, but it's something like that:Quote:
Originally Posted by mariashara
правильно: but it's something like this:
--------------------------------
Once one guy asked me to translate russian word, which sounded to him like "bibizi". It turned out to be "priblizitel'no"
правильно: ...to translate a russian word...
----------------------------------------------------
Russian surname of the same origin is Klimov. And it's common enough.
правильно: A Russian surname..
правильно: The Russian surname..
(depending on context)
----------------------------------
Word запонимал doesn't exist, though it sounds like some form of понимать.
правильно: The word запонимал doesn't exist, ...
----------------------------------
You should pay attention to placing "the" and "a" (are these articles? I don't even know) with the subject of the sentence particularly.
They are very small mistakes. You ARE very good otherwise.
Thanks a lot!!! :D I'll work on my articles.
Mariashara, I am happy to speak with you sometime on skype chat?Quote:
Originally Posted by mariashara
We could find something to chatter about?
The download page is : http://www.skype.com/products/skype/win ... oload=true
If this doesn't work, just search the internet or google keyword "skype"
If you do not want to or are too shy I will not be offended.
I did notice a problem with Skype in that my computer would freeze after about 15 minutes of conversation. I am saying so ahead of time...just in case. I think it is my "low memory" computer; but I did notice that Skype put out a new version to fix "bugs" so...maybe it was that. But, I can't tell yet, because my speaking partner is not back from their family vacation for me to try the new program. But, the sound quality is MUCH better than on ICQ, and is in real time, opposed to "your turn/my turn" time.
I learn alot from this person this way. We speak on Skype and simultaneously type out errors or ask for clarification via ICQ. It is very great because it helps me to move forward. Send an email if you would like to try this sometime. I think it would be great to also speak with a female russian because it could help me too with my own female voice within the russian language.
Bye!
And your welcome for the article help! I don't usually post on the same threads as you I guess, or I've missed the conversations, so.. maybe those people that do will answer your "please correct my mistakes" signature more often. Or maybe, it is that your mistakes are very small and people either miss them, (I think the English tend to "lose" their articles when communicating with Russians as a side-effect), or maybe more closely, people may have a tendency (english) to NOT correct somebody who isn't making GLARING DETRIMENTAL ERRORS. It is something a few of us could unlearn-myself included. I am glad you have your signature as being one that reassures others to do something, or reminding others to remember something for you that is important to you-such as-correct me please. It is ALWAYS a good thing to respect others when they ask for a simple help such as this. That is what the forum is for, right? :-)
That's a great opportunity for me. Thank you. But you are right, I feel shy a bit, so I need some time to get used to the thought.
Feeling shy is a common problem of those, who studied English in Soviet public schools, as I did. Teachers terrorized us for every mistake, so we learned better keep silent than to say something wrong. :lol:
I'll be glad, if you mail me. And I will not be offended, if you don't. :wink:
mariashara@ukr.net
:) cool...Quote:
Originally Posted by mariashara
правельно: ...so we learned that is better to keep silent than to say something wrong.
правильно: ...so we learned "to better keep silent," than to say something wrong. *
*(I think this is the one you may have been saying, and it is very close to my own speech, only, I added the punctuation to indicate quickly to the reader that you are describing (to better keep silent) as a thing in and of itself so that they do not need to read it twice. (dare I say the phrase to an outsider is in and of itself: a noun; a thing; a concept pre-packaged and handed to another for their understanding of the 'thing that is: to better keep silent'). My high-school aged child says that it is grammatically correct, but we are not English teachers.
Both are as correct as we possibly know how.
Disclaimer: correct me if I am wrong.
Yavlinsky's English is not too bad for a politician. Mind you, he is not a linguist. If more Russian politicians could speak English as well as him, it would be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by DagothWarez
Not very good conditions to learn under.Quote:
Originally Posted by mariashara
Well, I'm not Ms Perfect English, but as a native speaker I would be happy to look at anything emailed to me -- life stories, filthy poetry, whatever you've got -- and make corrections and suggestions about written and spoken English.
I am in no way terrifying and I won't laugh at you (at least you'll never see me laughing at you :wink: ) If interested, just PM me so I can give you a faster email address than the one here. Maybe someday I'll get some similar help with my Russian (I'm a bit shy too.)
It is better to make a mistake and learn from that mistake, than to keep silent and learn nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
Given the option, I'd vote for intonation. It's no rocket science but people tend to overlook it. I've heard many people with perfect Russian pronunciation (much better than that of most native speakers including myself) who were nevertheless easily identified as non-natives only because their intonations were wrong.
If only Russian was as easy as rocket science... sigh...Quote:
Originally Posted by Doldonius
My guess is that in the land of Victorious Proletariat it was the main task of the schools, to never let nobody learn no nothing... :evil:Quote:
Originally Posted by kwatts59
What does your remark mean, Doldonius? Does it help you if you slander your country and what does it have to do with the topic in question?Quote:
Originally Posted by Doldonius
i think loosing the accent is the first thing..