Thread: Ukrainian language similair to Russian?

As part of my University course i have to pick a language unit and i was stoked to see Russian listed, however when i tried to choose it they said it wasn't available this year . However the only Slavic language they have to offer this year is Ukrainian.

This somewhat disappoint's me, since i've read that the majority of people in Ukraine speak Russian. Furthermore i'm beginning to think learning this language would be useless (no offense to the Ukrainians) since no other place speaks the language.

I'd like to know if Ukrainian is similar to Russian and if i did learn Ukrainian would it be easy for me to learn Russian? How different is the language and would Russians understand Ukrainian speech? And would I be able to understand Russians?

These are the other languages to choose from:

Chinese ; Classical (Greek, Latin); French ; German; Indonesian; Italian; Japanese; Korean ; Spanish

Thanks

I'd pick Ukrainian! It is similar enough to Russian and Ukraine is the cradle of modern Russian! They share much of the same history and culture, that you will not be disappointed!

and Ukraine is the cradle of modern Russian!

Whaaat?

I presume he speaks about Киевская Русь

Можно говорить про "территорию современной Украины"

I would never pick Ukrainian, I'm sorry. This language is not very much liked by Russians(may be not by each and everyone, but a lot of people pretty much hate it).
I'd say, if you want to learn Russian, you should study it in it's strict way, the grammar of Russian and Ukrainian is not the same.
but since you don't have an opportunity to do it now, may be you should choose another language, but then, it's up to you anyway.

Originally Posted by Hedonist

I'd like to know if Ukrainian is similar to Russian and if i did learn Ukrainian would it be easy for me to learn Russian? How different is the language and would Russians understand Ukrainian speech?

Last year I read a couple of articles about Ukrainian, so by one of them this language was just southern dialect of Russian but in 20's of the last century bolshevicks decided to make it as a language. The Ukrainian language is also politilized in very moment - ukrainian politicians change it with a lot of polish words but anyway it is still more or less understandable(especially written language) for most Russians.

And would I be able to understand Russians?

I don't know. I've never met a non-Russian speaking Ukrainian.

Originally Posted by JJ

20's of the last century bolshevicks decided to make it as a language

Это дело начала еще раньше Австро-Венгрия. Сначала пытаясь ввести латиницу и фонетический принцип в орфографии. Латиницу, в отличие от сербско-хорватского, ввести не удалось, а вот фонетический принцип – вполне.

Originally Posted by JJ

Originally Posted by Hedonist

I'd like to know if Ukrainian is similar to Russian and if i did learn Ukrainian would it be easy for me to learn Russian? How different is the language and would Russians understand Ukrainian speech?

Last year I read a couple of articles about Ukrainian, so by one of them this language was just southern dialect of Russian but in 20's of the last century bolshevicks decided to make it as a language. The Ukrainian language is also politilized in very moment - ukrainian politicians change it with a lot of polish words but anyway it is still more or less understandable(especially written language) for most Russians.

And would I be able to understand Russians?

I don't know. I've never met a non-Russian speaking Ukrainian.

That's typical Russian propoganda. Ukrainian politicians didn't put lots of Polish words into the language, it doesn't work like that. Western Ukraine was part of Poland for a long time, this is where the so-called
'polonization' of Ukrainian culture and language arose from. Also a lot of the time it's the other way round: Russian adopted a foreign word (derived from Bulgarian, latin, etc.), whereas Ukrainian kept the older word.

Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian descended from the same language, Old East Slavic, also know as Old Russian, древнерусский. The literary languages started to split from the 15th-18th centuries. Russian branched off first. Ukrainian, Belarusian (and Rusyn) branched off in the 18th-19th centuries.

As for the Bolsheviks deciding to make it into a language. In the census of the Russian empire in 1897, the language options for people to choose included малорусский язык (Ukrainian).

It is true, the Bolsheviks promoted national identity among the republics of the Soviet Union. The pro-Ukrainian attitude of the Bolsheviks only lasted until 1932 though. That's just 10 years.

The above was typical TATY propaganda.

Originally Posted by TATY

That's typical Russian propoganda. Ukrainian politicians didn't put lots of Polish words into the language, it doesn't work like that. Western Ukraine was part of Poland for a long time, this is where the so-called
'polonization' of Ukrainian culture and language arose from. Also a lot of the time it's the other way round: Russian adopted a foreign word (derived from Bulgarian, latin, etc.), whereas Ukrainian kept the older word.

Don't forget that Western Ukrainian and Eastern Ukrainian, are also not completley identical.

Originally Posted by Remyisme

Originally Posted by TATY

That's typical Russian propoganda. Ukrainian politicians didn't put lots of Polish words into the language, it doesn't work like that. Western Ukraine was part of Poland for a long time, this is where the so-called
'polonization' of Ukrainian culture and language arose from. Also a lot of the time it's the other way round: Russian adopted a foreign word (derived from Bulgarian, latin, etc.), whereas Ukrainian kept the older word.

Don't forget that Western Ukrainian and Eastern Ukrainian, are also not completley identical.

I know. Western Ukrainian is more Polonised. Eastern Ukrainian is more Russified. Ukraine was only re-unified after WWII. Also, for the person who said that Ukrainian politicians intentionally added Polish words to Ukrainian, it might be worth pointing out, that Ukraine and Poland historically hate each other.

Originally Posted by TATY

Ukraine and Poland historically hate each other.

Which Ukraine? East or West? or both?

Originally Posted by Remyisme

Originally Posted by TATY

Ukraine and Poland historically hate each other.

Which Ukraine? East or West? or both?

Most of the disputes occured between the West part of Ukraine and Poland.

English:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_ ... n_Volhynia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_ ... n_Volhynia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paw%C5%82okoma_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmelnytsky_Uprising
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koliyivschyna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Uman

Русский:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0% ... 0%BD%D0%B0
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0% ... 0%BD%D1%8F

The Ukrainian diaspora, most of whom left Western Ukraine around the time of WW1/The civil war, and went to Canada, America, Britain, and other places, have a slightly different variant of Ukrainian. This is actually less like Russian than modern Ukrainian spoken in Ukraine today. They have some very Polish sounding things. One of which is the greeting
Як ся маєш? (How are you), which can be compared with the Polish Jak się masz? / Czech Jak se maš? Interestingly, the Polish was used as Borat's greeting Jagshemash.

Anyway, back to the point. The Soviets tried to Russify the Ukrainian (and Belarussian) languages. In the 40s or 50s, I forget, they imposed a number of spelling rules on Ukrainian (which made it more like Russian). In 1933 they banned the letter Ґ (hard g) from the Ukrainian alphabet. It was only replaced in 1990.

Originally Posted by TATY

That's typical Russian propoganda. Ukrainian politicians didn't put lots of Polish words into the language, it doesn't work like that.

А вот что думают по этому поводу сами хохлы:
http://www.km.ru/magazin/view.asp?id=1B ... 85D3A537D2

"Вот передо мной лежит статья некоего Вячеслава Панфилова "Украинская терминология должна иметь собственное лицо" (Киевский вестник за 03.04.1993). Автору этой статьи почему-то не нравится, что многие украинские электротехнические термины совпадают с русским: виток, гайка, генератор, катушка, коммутатор, реостат, статор, штепсель... Вместо этих "москальских" терминов он требует принять такие истинно украинские: звій, мyтра, витворець, цівка, перелучнык, опірниця, стоя'к, притичка...

Что это за слова, откуда они взялись? Все очень просто: открываем польский словарь и читаем: zwoj, mutra, wytwornica, cewka, przelacznik, opornik, stojan, wtyczka. Вот вам и "совершенствование технической терминологии": ее "собственное лицо" имеет давно знакомые польские черты! В то время как одни упорно отрицают наличие в украинском языке огромного количества полонизмов, другие с маниакальным упорством продолжают его дальнейшее ополячивание.... "

А вот здесь список на 500 с лишним польских заимствований:
http://russian.kiev.ua/books/zheleznyj/ ... u2_8.shtml

TATY, меньше слушай BBC.

Originally Posted by JJ

Originally Posted by TATY

That's typical Russian propoganda. Ukrainian politicians didn't put lots of Polish words into the language, it doesn't work like that.

А вот что думают по этому поводу сами хохлы:
http://www.km.ru/magazin/view.asp?id=1B ... 85D3A537D2

"Вот передо мной лежит статья некоего Вячеслава Панфилова "Украинская терминология должна иметь собственное лицо" (Киевский вестник за 03.04.1993). Автору этой статьи почему-то не нравится, что многие украинские электротехнические термины совпадают с русским: виток, гайка, генератор, катушка, коммутатор, реостат, статор, штепсель... Вместо этих "москальских" терминов он требует принять такие истинно украинские: звій, мyтра, витворець, цівка, перелучнык, опірниця, стоя'к, притичка...

Что это за слова, откуда они взялись? Все очень просто: открываем польский словарь и читаем: zwoj, mutra, wytwornica, cewka, przelacznik, opornik, stojan, wtyczka. Вот вам и "совершенствование технической терминологии": ее "собственное лицо" имеет давно знакомые польские черты! В то время как одни упорно отрицают наличие в украинском языке огромного количества полонизмов, другие с маниакальным упорством продолжают его дальнейшее ополячивание.... "

А вот здесь список на 500 с лишним польских заимствований:
http://russian.kiev.ua/books/zheleznyj/ ... u2_8.shtml

TATY, меньше слушай BBC.

The BBC doesn't mention Ukraine apart from when they are having a 'revolution' :P

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by JJ

Originally Posted by Hedonist

I'd like to know if Ukrainian is similar to Russian and if i did learn Ukrainian would it be easy for me to learn Russian? How different is the language and would Russians understand Ukrainian speech?

Last year I read a couple of articles about Ukrainian, so by one of them this language was just southern dialect of Russian but in 20's of the last century bolshevicks decided to make it as a language. The Ukrainian language is also politilized in very moment - ukrainian politicians change it with a lot of polish words but anyway it is still more or less understandable(especially written language) for most Russians.

And would I be able to understand Russians?

I don't know. I've never met a non-Russian speaking Ukrainian.

That's typical Russian propoganda. Ukrainian politicians didn't put lots of Polish words into the language, it doesn't work like that. Western Ukraine was part of Poland for a long time, this is where the so-called
'polonization' of Ukrainian culture and language arose from. Also a lot of the time it's the other way round: Russian adopted a foreign word (derived from Bulgarian, latin, etc.), whereas Ukrainian kept the older word.

Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian descended from the same language, Old East Slavic, also know as Old Russian, древнерусский. The literary languages started to split from the 15th-18th centuries. Russian branched off first. Ukrainian, Belarusian (and Rusyn) branched off in the 18th-19th centuries.

As for the Bolsheviks deciding to make it into a language. In the census of the Russian empire in 1897, the language options for people to choose included малорусский язык (Ukrainian).

It is true, the Bolsheviks promoted national identity among the republics of the Soviet Union. The pro-Ukrainian attitude of the Bolsheviks only lasted until 1932 though. That's just 10 years.

+
Listen to TATY, he knows what he's talking about.
as for studying Ukrainian, it is similar enough to Russian that you will be able to switch easily if you decide to do so. Or to Polish. Someone who knows two of these three languages is going to be able to understand the third one at no cost

Originally Posted by JJ

А вот здесь список на 500 с лишним польских заимствований:
http://russian.kiev.ua/books/zheleznyj/ ... u2_8.shtml

TATY, меньше слушай BBC.

A nice list, which clearly illustrates the fact that modern Russian (unlike, say, Ukrainian or Polish) is largely an artificial language, into which a large number of Bulgarian (and later French) words were forcibly adopted, replacing traditional Slavic roots.

Originally Posted by TATY

Interestingly, the Polish was used as Borat's greeting Jagshemash.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha What Borat actually says is "yog she mazh" which is Kazakh for "no cow dung here". (Edited. L.)

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by JJ

А вот здесь список на 500 с лишним польских заимствований:
http://russian.kiev.ua/books/zheleznyj/ ... u2_8.shtml

TATY, меньше слушай BBC.

A nice list, which clearly illustrates the fact that modern Russian (unlike, say, Ukrainian or Polish) is largely an artificial language, into which a large number of Bulgarian (and later French) words were forcibly adopted, replacing traditional Slavic roots.

Exactly. Russian is the one that changed. Ukrainian was more of a peasant, every day language, whereas Old Church Slavonic, formed from Bulgarian (a South Slavonic language), was that of the Church, literature and Science. It also absorbed a lot of latin and later French. Ukrainian preserved the old roots. I learn both Russian and Ukrainian. When I learn Russian I very often come accross words that my teachers tell me are archaic or 'old slavic' words, that I recognise as modern Ukrainian words.
Ukrainian vocabularly has more in common with the West Slavic languages (Czech, Slovak, Polish, Sorbian, Kasubian, etc.). Russian is far more influenced by South Slavonic (Bulgarian). (I'm not saying it IS a South Slavic language though, JJ.)

From that list of words:

Polish: miasto
Ukrainian: місто
Rusian: город

The Russian comes from the South Slavonic, (e.g. Београд).

The months nicely illustrate the foreign influence on Russian. Ukrainian retained the old Slavonic months, Russian would have once had similar names. Now Russian (like Serbian, Bulgarian) have the Latin names similar to the English January, February.

Also I can think of plenty of example where Russian and Polish are the same, and Ukrainian is different:

Russian: Он, Она, Оно, Они
Polish: On, Ona, Ono, Oni
Ukrainian: Він, Вона, Воно, Вони

English: Language
Russian: Язык
Polish: Język
Ukrainian: Мова
Belarusian: Мова