Thread: School / Career

[quote=BladeStuckin]

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

Originally Posted by "kalinka_vinnie":24asrinb

Reasons why Americans join the army:

1) They are patriotic and want to defend their country
2) They are poor and see the army as a way to get out of poverty. The army will pay for their eductaion
... please continue the list

I quite agree with your first statement but the second one is not tenable. Are you sure that Americans are poor and this is the main reason why they join the army? Or do I have to take it on trust?

It is very real, I know many people who have joined the military (not necessarily the army) because they offer free education. There are poor Americans, and lots of them too.

I joined to Navy in order to get out on my own. Alot of the people I worked with in the military joined for monetary reasons, i.e. University Fees, Home Loans, etc.

There are also other reasons someone joins...
To continue Kalinka's list:

3. Choice between Military or Prison for first time felony crimes. (Very common in the 90's)
4. Chance to travel abroad.
5. To kill people. (Movies and video games are a big reason for this)[/quote:24asrinb]

4. Chance to travel abroad - what do you mean by 'abroad'? You want to be sent to Iraq to die there defending your president's wishes? You must be kidding?!
5. That's weird. I'd even say - it's insane to kill people.

I can't understand why so many people join the military with the view of making their own money! Are their parents so poor that they can't afford to give their kids enough allowance? Or do American kids/teenagers want to independent of their parents in terms of money?

I think it's a good thing that people are ready/eager to defend their country but I really don't believe that this is the main reason why teenagers join the army. If the need arises (for example, if the US is involved in a major war), lots of people who never displayed any sort of patriotism, will get out of their beds to defend the country. I don't think there were many people in the USSR in the late 1930s who were eager to join the army if Hitler suddenly made war upon the SU. But when the war broke out on June 22, there were a lot of people who were absolutely ready to defend their country even if they didn't qualify for a conscript, for example, due to age.
IMO, Americans join the army chiefly for monetary reasons (as BladeStuckin's already said).

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

4. Chance to travel abroad - what do you mean by 'abroad'? You want to be sent to Iraq to die there defending your president's wishes? You must be kidding?!

Yes, travel to another country. No, not for increasing the profits of an Oil Tycoon President.

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

5. That's weird. I'd even say - it's insane to kill people.

It is insane, but it is true. At least 65% of teenagers are joining the military for the chance to kill. Trust me. I am a reservist recruiter. That is the reason given when asked "Why do you want to join?". In my opinion, to much violence in every aspect of entertainment is the major contributing factor.

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

4. Chance to travel abroad - what do you mean by 'abroad'? You want to be sent to Iraq to die there defending your president's wishes? You must be kidding?!

No, he's absolutely serious. Think about it. We have bases in or relationships with a huge number of the world's countries. Consider:
Army: bases around the world, bilateral/training programs, etc.
Navy: You sail. Guess what? Ships have to set anchor at ports. Thus, when you sail all over the place, you have to "park" your ship somewhere and resupply.
Marines: Guard Embassies/Consulates in every country we have a relationship with. Also, the same training/bilat programs as the army.
Air Force: Fly planes. Planes are like ships. They stop places, too, and as shocking as it may be, we don't yet own the world (MWAHAHAHA --evil laugh), so they land in friendly airfields or airbases that are leased.

So yeah, there is an opportunity for travel. Of course, it's completely random where you go -- you might get to have a peaceful couple years in Italy or you might end up in Baghdad.

Originally Posted by BladeStuckin

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

4. Chance to travel abroad - what do you mean by 'abroad'? You want to be sent to Iraq to die there defending your president's wishes? You must be kidding?!

Yes, travel to another country. No, not for increasing the profits of an Oil Tycoon President.

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

5. That's weird. I'd even say - it's insane to kill people.

It is insane, but it is true. At least 65% of teenagers are joining the military for the chance to kill. Trust me. I am a reservist recruiter. That is the reason given when asked "Why do you want to join?". In my opinion, to much violence in every aspect of entertainment is the major contributing factor.

omfg, do people actually say that? I sure hope you don't accept them. And who the hell would want to go to Iraq, 45C heat, dead bodies, bombs.... nice holiday.

Yes, they say it. No, they are not accepted. (At least by me anyway)

Originally Posted by Barmaley

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

4. Chance to travel abroad - what do you mean by 'abroad'? You want to be sent to Iraq to die there defending your president's wishes? You must be kidding?!

No, he's absolutely serious. Think about it. We have bases in or relationships with a huge number of the world's countries. Consider:
Army: bases around the world, bilateral/training programs, etc.
Navy: You sail. Guess what? Ships have to set anchor at ports. Thus, when you sail all over the place, you have to "park" your ship somewhere and resupply.
Marines: Guard Embassies/Consulates in every country we have a relationship with. Also, the same training/bilat programs as the army.
Air Force: Fly planes. Planes are like ships. They stop places, too, and as shocking as it may be, we don't yet own the world (MWAHAHAHA --evil laugh), so they land in friendly airfields or airbases that are leased.

So yeah, there is an opportunity for travel. Of course, it's completely random where you go -- you might get to have a peaceful couple years in Italy or you might end up in Baghdad.

Having read your posts, I've come to the conclusion that the American army is completely different from the Russian one. People willing to join the army follow the aims that are so uncommon for me that after I read BladeStuckin's first post about people's wish to kill while they're in the army, I was shocked to the core. In present-day Russia, hardly anyone wants to join the army to kill. There were too many massacres in the twentieth century and even teenages planning to join the army (if there are such) don't aim for more massacres. There are umpteen problems in our army and the worst is probably victimizing other recruiters.
No one wants to go to Chechnya because everyone understands how they might end up.
Barmaley, I strongly concur with you that the US has a lot of bases in the world. NATO is the first thing that comes into my head when I think about American bases. But like you said, you might end up somewhere in Iraq.


Is it not easier to make an attempt to look for a job than join the army?

[quote=love.angel]

Originally Posted by "Орчун":3nbj3wgf

I'm studying Russian and Russian Literature in university.

Is that a double-major in itself? Or do you have another program as well? (Hopefully all universities use the same terms, or else you will not know what I'm talking about).[/quote:3nbj3wgf]

hell neah im just studying Russian in university.I have also an oppurtunity to choose another program as well cuz i just don't think that i can handle both of em.

Originally Posted by BladeStuckin

Yes, they say it. No, they are not accepted. (At least by me anyway)

Well that's a slight relief.

Man, it's disturbing. I blame irresponsible parenting rather than the media. I've cheerfully played FPSs (y'know, Counter-Strike, Unreal Tournament), and, indeed, the infamous Grand Theft Auto series, and have never had the desire to join the army, carjack old ladies, run over policeman, or in any way harm another human being, basically.

Сначала, я училась в Университете <<Корнелл>> на факултете театра. После этого, я работала в Нью-Йорке - много других пьес. Сейчас, я аспирантка. Я изучаю профессию <<dramaturgy >>. Это как критик литература театра. Я думаю, что по-русскии <<заф-лит>>. Я окончу в июне. тогда, я буду изучать русский язык каждый день.

Please forgive my awful mistakes. I want to try to begin posting a bit in Russian.

Originally Posted by demoiselle

Please forgive my awful mistakes. I want to try to begin posting a bit in Russian.

Althiugh, there are some, your Russian is very good.

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Reasons why Americans join the army:

1) They are patriotic and want to defend their country
2) They are poor and see the army as a way to get out of poverty. The army will pay for their eductaion
... please continue the list

I quite agree with your first statement but the second one is not tenable. Are you sure that Americans are poor and this is the main reason why they join the army? Or do I have to take it on trust?

Of course, there are many poor people in America, and many of them want a higher education. State schools have more reasonable tuition, but many schools are private and very expensive. People who have not saved a lot of money (more accurately, whose parents have not saved a lot of money) may face huge loans in order to complete a BA.

The military promises to help pay for your education (though maybe you will get killed first). I think that the GI-Bill (which helped World War II veterans get college degrees) was partly responsible to the large middle class in America.

Historians are welcome to correct my facts, of course.

Shari

Originally Posted by Seventh-Monkey

Originally Posted by BladeStuckin

Yes, they say it. No, they are not accepted. (At least by me anyway)

Well that's a slight relief.

Man, it's disturbing. I blame irresponsible parenting rather than the media. I've cheerfully played FPSs (y'know, Counter-Strike, Unreal Tournament), and, indeed, the infamous Grand Theft Auto series, and have never had the desire to join the army, carjack old ladies, run over policeman, or in any way harm another human being, basically.

Isn't it a paradox? I personally love to watch or to play different bad stuff (pictures, games, books) but I don't feel like repeating all these horrible things. Conversely, I am strongly opposed to that. However, some people take it in good faith.

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

4. Chance to travel abroad - what do you mean by 'abroad'? You want to be sent to Iraq to die there defending your president's wishes? You must be kidding?!

My ex-boyfriend joined the Navy in the 1980s, when it seemed like there was NO chance of facing combat. He was a poor boy with a single mother, who wasn't ready for college. The Navy gave him structure, and did take him all over the world far from any real combat duties. He took classes on board his ship.

Of course, he saw some of the worst parts of the world, and mostly toured the inside of bars etc. And he had no choice about where he went. And he was surprised when the Gulf War began and he was actually engaged in battle.

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

I can't understand why so many people join the military with the view of making their own money! Are their parents so poor that they can't afford to give their kids enough allowance? Or do American kids/teenagers want to independent of their parents in terms of money?

Thoughts:
Generalizing, but it is not considered a sign of success for an American to remain living with his/her parents into their 20s. So often, they want to get out and support themselves.

An allowance is not enough to fund a college education.

Generalizing again, a lot of military enlistees come from poorer families - perhaps families with single mothers, or many children.

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

IMO, Americans join the army chiefly for monetary reasons (as BladeStuckin's already said).

And yet, the pay is not very good.

Another reason for joining the American military: it is a way to gain US Citizenship.

Originally Posted by BladeStuckin

At least 65% of teenagers are joining the military for the chance to kill. Trust me. I am a reservist recruiter. That is the reason given when asked "Why do you want to join?". In my opinion, to much violence in every aspect of entertainment is the major contributing factor.

You're serious? That's frightening. I vow, no TV and no videogames in my future home!

My ex-boyfriend joined the Navy in the 1980s, when it seemed like there was NO chance of facing combat. He was a poor boy with a single mother, who wasn't ready for college. The Navy gave him structure, and did take him all over the world far from any real combat duties. He took classes on board his ship.

Of course, he saw some of the worst parts of the world, and mostly toured the inside of bars etc. And he had no choice about where he went. And he was surprised when the Gulf War began and he was actually engaged in battle.

I'm not trying to say that joining the army is bad. I'm sure there are a lot of advantages in joining the army, you've pointed out most of them already. demoiselle, I hope your ex-boyfriend wasn't injured during the Gulf War when, as you said, he was actually engaged in battle. The worst thing is that you have no choice. Am I right in saying that if you've joined the army, you cannot leave because of some sort of contract you sign before/when joining the army?

Generalizing, but it is not considered a sign of success for an American to remain living with his/her parents into their 20s. So often, they want to get out and support themselves.

In my opinion, it's quite natural that a 20-year-old American doesn't want to be financially dependent on his/her parents and is willing to get out and support him/herself.

An allowance is not enough to fund a college education.

That's why "paid" education isn't good. Even in the most developed countries. If you don't have enough money to pay for your education, you have very little chance of receiving good education and thus being able to live on your own.

Isn't it a paradox? I personally love to watch or to play different bad stuff (pictures, games, books) but I don't feel like repeating all these horrible things. Conversely, I am strongly opposed to that. However, some people take it in good faith.

That's why they're so worried about their children spending plenty of time playing computer games and other stuff rather than doing sports, homework, etc. I used to play FPSs myself a few years ago and I had a lot of friends who were hooked on Counter-Sttrike and other computer games but I can't remember any of them ever having the desire to kill in real life. There have been such killings in Russia, though. I believe it very much depends on parenting. I don't think it's a good idea to not allow your children to play any videogames at all. Your kids might
feel left out among other kids.

And yet, the pay is not very good.

That's right. It's hard to make a killing through the army but someone seems to have said that people join the army largely for monetary reasons... or am I wrong?

Originally Posted by BladeStuckin

Yes, they say it. No, they are not accepted. (At least by me anyway)

What? So you'd rather leave them in society with the rest of us? jeeesh !

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

An allowance is not enough to fund a college education.

That's why "paid" education isn't good. Even in the most developed countries. If you don't have enough money to pay for your education, you have very little chance of receiving good education and thus being able to live on your own.

This is such a load of сrap (and I'm not directing my irritation against you Red, but against this myth in general). Despite the supposed fact that nobody can afford a college education, they keep building more and more schools and attendance keeps rising and rising. Financial aid in some amount is fairly easy to get, and student loans can cover the less -- assuming you don't want to go to a "private" college (there are plenty of good state colleges around -- if you go to one in the state in which you reside, your tuition is GREATLY less -- 25% or so of the general cost). I personally went to college on my own -- my parents couldn't afford to support me. I did take out loans at low interest rates -- but the way I see it, what's really wrong with that? People are willing to buy homes, cars, etc. (to say nothing of stereos, CDs, TVs, etc. at horrible interest rates) on credit alone -- what's wrong with doing the same thing for a degree that increases my chances of finding a good job?

Isn't it a paradox? I personally love to watch or to play different bad stuff (pictures, games, books) but I don't feel like repeating all these horrible things. Conversely, I am strongly opposed to that. However, some people take it in good faith.

Heh. Yeah, it's funny how that works. One of my buddies is a total peacenik and wouldn't hurt a fly -- but he'd love to smash your skull or blow you to smithereens on the Playstation!

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

I'm not trying to say that joining the army is bad. I'm sure there are a lot of advantages in joining the army, you've pointed out most of them already. demoiselle, I hope your ex-boyfriend wasn't injured during the Gulf War when, as you said, he was actually engaged in battle. The worst thing is that you have no choice. Am I right in saying that if you've joined the army, you cannot leave because of some sort of contract you sign before/when joining the army?

He was not injured, and never directly in the battle since he was on a ship. But he was involved in launching and guiding weapons, and had to live with the guilt of that.

No, I believe you have to complete your tour of duty and then there is time in the reserve forces, etc.

That's why "paid" education isn't good. Even in the most developed countries. If you don't have enough money to pay for your education, you have very little chance of receiving good education and thus being able to live on your own.

However, there is an up side to the american system. I think in some countries you are tested and put onto a certain track at a very young age. Specialization happens very young. In others, your education is free, but you are then indebted to work for your government at a low wage. So in some ways, there are freedoms in paid education.

I agree that it can be cost prohibited. Yet again, many state schools (and others) offer very good scholarships and grants for those who are both poor and good students. The problem is - what if you are a mediocre student, poor, and want an education?

Don't admission tests determine where students may study in Russia? And those who do not do well enough may gain admittance to some schools by paying tuition? Or am I mistaken?

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Originally Posted by Seventh-Monkey

Originally Posted by BladeStuckin

Yes, they say it. No, they are not accepted. (At least by me anyway)

Well that's a slight relief.

Man, it's disturbing. I blame irresponsible parenting rather than the media. I've cheerfully played FPSs (y'know, Counter-Strike, Unreal Tournament), and, indeed, the infamous Grand Theft Auto series, and have never had the desire to join the army, carjack old ladies, run over policeman, or in any way harm another human being, basically.

Isn't it a paradox? I personally love to watch or to play different bad stuff (pictures, games, books) but I don't feel like repeating all these horrible things. Conversely, I am strongly opposed to that. However, some people take it in good faith.

Your use of "conversely" is slightly confusing there, I feel. Sounds like you're counter-counter-arguing or something (conversely to your "but I don't..." bit?). I'd just say "in fact", or "as a matter of fact".

Anyway, I'm glad that people (here, at least) agree with the sentiment.

Thanks, Alex. I think the sentenences are not very good to connect them with "conversely". I know the specifics of usage of that word. Now I see it doesn't quite fit in. And you say it's "slightly confusible", so I inferred it might be all right with a bit another environment.