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Thread: Russian man beaten by police in America

  1. #1
    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Russian man beaten by police in America

    Berkeley Man Nearly Beaten to Death by CHP | NBC Bay Area

    What do you think? Did he in any way provoke the beating? Is America becoming a police state?
    Вот потому, что вы говорите то, что не думаете, и думаете то, что не думаете, вот в клетках и сидите. И вообще, весь этот горький катаклизм, который я здесь наблюдаю, и Владимир Николаевич тоже…

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deborski View Post
    What do you think? Did he in any way provoke the beating? Is America becoming a police state?
    Well, police officers obviously overreacted. I think initial problem might be the language barrier, maybe the guy didn't understand what officers asked him but I don't think it is an excuse for two big guys to beat up the man, so brutally.
    Also the attempt to "cover up" their actions with DUI citation, which was clearly false makes me think that those police officers might have had experience in those kind of situations before

  3. #3
    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    I think they beat him because he didn't speak good enough English. He didn't want to sign because he didn't understand, so they took that as an excuse to nearly kill him. It outrages me, to be honest. I hope he sues their pants off! Those two cops are STILL working for two years since the incident. I wonder how many more people they've beaten? It's sad to me that our police have gone from Adam-12 to AK-47.
    Вот потому, что вы говорите то, что не думаете, и думаете то, что не думаете, вот в клетках и сидите. И вообще, весь этот горький катаклизм, который я здесь наблюдаю, и Владимир Николаевич тоже…

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    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    "police state" in Russian has other meaning.
    Lawlessness has almost opposite meaning.
    This is high level of violence in my opinion.
    Americans are used to kill children, kill disabled men, and very often shoot in schools and kindergartens.
    Nothing new happens, no?
    It's like Russia (except shooting kids), but our police usually deals with foreigners with more piety.
    This is main reason I don't want to visit U.S. (considering my English especially )
    "Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."

  5. #5
    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxmixiv View Post
    "police state" in Russian has other meaning.
    Lawlessness has almost opposite meaning.
    This is high level of violence in my opinion.
    Americans are used to kill children, kill disabled men, and very often shoot in schools and kindergartens.
    Nothing new happens, no?
    It's like Russia (except shooting kids), but our police usually deals with foreigners with more piety.
    This is main reason I don't want to visit U.S. (considering my English especially )

    I wish I could just reassure you and say, no, no, please come visit - you'll be safe here!
    Truth is, sometimes I am scared myself.
    Our police are not the same as they were 20 or 30 years ago. These days they are very militarized and most of them are veterans of our wars Iraq and Afghanistan.
    This was a total overreach of authority and the two police who beat him should have been stripped of their badges and guns. Unfortunately they are still in uniform two years later.
    I think you can still safely visit the US. As horrible as this incident was, it doesn't happen to everyone, every day. The main thing is, it's better to be with a friend and not alone. That way, you always have a witness.
    Tararwen likes this.
    Вот потому, что вы говорите то, что не думаете, и думаете то, что не думаете, вот в клетках и сидите. И вообще, весь этот горький катаклизм, который я здесь наблюдаю, и Владимир Николаевич тоже…

  6. #6
    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    stripped of their badges and guns
    In Russia they probably would even be imprisoned.
    But new accidents arise at constant rate. They, prospective policemen are not filtered well.
    Deborski likes this.
    "Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."

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    Почтенный гражданин 14Russian's Avatar
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    'Putin's' Russia is already a police state. So, it's a matter of which one.

  8. #8
    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxmixiv View Post
    In Russia they probably would even be imprisoned.
    That's good, I think. Bad cops get away with horrible crap like that in America, far too often.
    I also think they should have been sent to prison for beating that man.
    Вот потому, что вы говорите то, что не думаете, и думаете то, что не думаете, вот в клетках и сидите. И вообще, весь этот горький катаклизм, который я здесь наблюдаю, и Владимир Николаевич тоже…

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    Подающий надежды оратор
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    Police also tend to treat foreigners with much more disdain and charge them with harsher penalties for crimes than they would charge a native citizen. The problem is accountability. Checks and balances are apart of almost every part of government. But in the U.S. it is the police that police themselves. Internal affairs are useless when it comes to issues of police brutality. If you wanted to report a police officer for a crime that you witnessed, and you didn't have absolute, incontrovertible evidence, you'd be s*** out of luck. You'd have absolutely no viable recourse. If you do happen to have video of the incident, then who do you go to? You can't go directly to the police. They're a fraternity and there are repurcussions for those who turn on their brothers. The average American wouldn't know who else to turn to. Your only recourse is to post it to Youtube and hope it goes viral. Even then, there's no guarantee that any law-enforcement agency will take it action. And even then, you can't guarantee that the offending officer will be dealt the proper punishments.
    Deborski likes this.

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    В Америке что ли нет органа, стоящего выше полиции? У нас можно обратиться в прокуратуру или ФСБ, если дело серьезное.
    Deborski likes this.

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    Увлечённый спикер Fester's Avatar
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    Becoming a police state? I honestly thought that was a fact more or less. If not, you're definately a prime example of such a state.

    Most likely the truth is somewhere in between in these cases, for example, the russian guy might have been a bit smart mouthed and the officers became frustrated and abused their badge to excessively beat the guy up. Either way, it makes me angry, because in my world such beating should not ever be needed by 2 police officer when cuffing a man, because with some will it can be made without anyone getting hurt...
    Deborski likes this.

  12. #12
    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Eledhwen - in the US, the FBI and Police are all one big "fraternity" like Russiancause said. Sure, they may have "turf wars" over investigations, but when it comes to citizens vs cops, they are going to side with the police 9 times out of 10.

    You can go to the newsmedia and have them do a story, and sometimes a reporter might be sympathetic to your plight and give it attention. But these days even reporters seem to be part and parcel of the problem.
    Вот потому, что вы говорите то, что не думаете, и думаете то, что не думаете, вот в клетках и сидите. И вообще, весь этот горький катаклизм, который я здесь наблюдаю, и Владимир Николаевич тоже…

  13. #13
    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    To me, "police state" implies that it's virtually impossible for a citizen to win a lawsuit against the police, and that constitutional limitations on police are essentially non-existent, because the courts and the lawmakers always take the side of the police against the citizenry.

    In other words, it's not individual cases of police brutality that make a country into a "police state"; the "police state" begins to develop when there is no longer any genuine balance-of-powers among the judicial, legislative, and executive branches of the government. (It can also occur when there is no longer a separation of power between federal and local authorities.)

    That said, I agree with the comments about corrupt police "protecting their own." I also have a suspicion that pressure from police unions may partly explain why the two officers involved were (apparently) not even put on some sort of administrative leave or restricted to "desk duty." Finally, bureaucratic proceduralism may explain why Kozacenko's case against the officers hasn't been resolved faster.

    However, while all of these are problems, they're not necessarily evidence of a "growing Police State."

  14. #14
    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Throbert, have you ever tried to win a lawsuit against the police? I know people who have tried and failed despite legitimate claims...
    Вот потому, что вы говорите то, что не думаете, и думаете то, что не думаете, вот в клетках и сидите. И вообще, весь этот горький катаклизм, который я здесь наблюдаю, и Владимир Николаевич тоже…

  15. #15
    Подающий надежды оратор Neilan's Avatar
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    I've had a few dealings with the former Militsia in Russia and must say they are not a Police force I feel safe with but it's all down to bureaucracy and petty theft (of which they are usually guilty themselves!). I've never been to America so I can't comment but my opinion on the Russian Police force is that they are somewhat ridiculed by the people (and with good reason).
    Although beatings by the Police are likely not uncommon I find this story quite disturbing. The Police service in America is well supported and trusted (i think) by nationals of that country. They are a service that people possibly used to trust and have faith in.

    On a funnier note I knew a guy from England when I was at University. He went on a study/exchange programme to Moscow. He was a bit of a hippy and passionate for music so he used to try and play in the metro but this obviously annoyed some of the regulars of that station (that old lady with the accordion!) and so they started making complaints and telling him to move! The Militsia of the time helped him and allowed him to keep playing. The people who were objecting were told to leave him alone etc and so the Militsia ensured he was able to play in peace and earn as much money as possible. That was until they were leaving the station and the Militsia, after letting them earn decent money, took them to the office, told them it was illegal and that they would have to leave all the money with them! hahahaha

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