Russia warming twice as fast as the rest of the world

The point is not money. The point is switching to clean energy. The argument of the right wing who is against new forms of energy is that its just left wingers getting rich off of wind.

Ok so whats the problem? People getting rich right now off oil. At least wind doesn't kill anything.

Global warming is a conspiracy by the Americans, Europeans and Chinese to make sure winter won't save Russia next time. All is going according to plan... :beer:

Hey, Russians tend to love conspiracies, especially international ones aimed against Russia. So there you go. Added global warming to the list. Враги везде! :good:

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

The point is not money. The point is switching to clean energy. The argument of the right wing who is against new forms of energy is that its just left wingers getting rich off of wind.

Ok so whats the problem? People getting rich right now off oil. At least wind doesn't kill anything.

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I didn't say they kill. They cheat people and make them spend more money, than is necessary.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

Nice to hear that a few more people than me on this forum acknowledge global warming and want something done about it.

Not sure if it is already too late.
But if there is serious melting of the poles and the ice on Greenland, then a large number of coastal cities will be flooded across the globe, with horrendous refugee problems... And too hot weather will ruin crops across the world, as just happened in Russia... Things would be truly horrible!

And we'll have to ask ourselves: did I really need to go on all these holidays to another continent... did I really need all these gadgets, designer clothes travelling everywhere by car... and why was I too lazy to recycle... ?

I keep reflecting on these things as I am tied down in the super-consumerist and generally un-ecological lifestyle of London... :bad: Sorry if I am ranting about it.....

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First off, I'm a little perplexed that you have these strong sentiments and are living in London. It's a megacity - you can't expect it to be a beacon of ecology.

Secondly, I think a great deal of scepticism regarding global warming might not necessarily arise from people who don't believe it exists. I personally do believe in it. More important is the fact that in order to have a significant impact on the global climate, you need global co-operation. You can't simply have a bunch of nations recycling a bit more. It is somewhat hypocritical of western nations such as the UK to suddenly decide that enough is enough - conveniently at a time when we are industralised whilst other nations are not and are in the process of doing so. We cannot expect developing nations to suddenly stop developing because the West believes it is time to do something about global warming.

However, yes, little things such as recycling are good, but solely because it is a good thing to reuse items anyway.


Oh, and:

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Originally Posted by deker

I really don't mind for some warming in Russia. :D There is an proverb: Жар костей не ломит.
And those fires it is mainly handiwork of people, blaming the climate it is переваливать вину с больной головы на здоровую.

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:wink:

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Ok so whats the problem? People getting rich right now off oil. At least wind doesn't kill anything.

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Birds caught in the wind turbines won't thank you for saying that :P

Interesting article

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Originally Posted by LuxDefensor

One more thing about CO2 and is it really anthropogenic. [..] P.S. I once read in a popular book that taking into account the cycling nature of ice ages it is exactly the time for a new one. And thanks to the greenhouse effect that we are still not frozen to death ;)

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I'm not sure if the current global warming is really anthropogenic. However, I think the global warming does exist based on the dynamics of the melting of both polar caps. This info is open and I don't think it's been disputed. So, what should we do? I would really like to read that popular book mentioned by LuxDefensor as, to the best of my knowledge, the vast majority of the modern climate models are based on the major ocean currents and not on the amout of the greenhouse gases that allegedely save us from the ice age. So, let's say the global warming is not antropogenic, what should we do? I think the first thing would be cooling off the planet so that the dynamics of the melting ice would stop and preserve the ocean currents in their current state. Reducing the amount of the CO2 in the atmosphere is one thing to start with. (The other, more invasive approaches would include creating a shade by means of the 'space mirror'.)

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

I would really like to read that popular book mentioned by LuxDefensor

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A.Nikonov - very polpular author but very contentious

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

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Originally Posted by LuxDefensor

However, I think the global warming does exist based on the dynamics of the melting of both polar caps. This info is open and I don't think it's been disputed.

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Actually, it's being disputed.

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Originally Posted by Полуношник

Actually, it's being disputed.

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I would appreciate a reference to a credible source that mentiones the sea ice is not disappearing.

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Originally Posted by http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100428142324.htm

"It was previously thought that loss of sea ice could cause further warming. Now we have confirmation this is already happening."

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@LuxDefensor
As far as I remember, Nikonov used to predict a 'global hydrogen economy' based on the allegation by a Russian geologist that the hydrogen in the gaseous form could be mined straight from the Earth crust. I still don't really see that happening. Hmm... why's that? :search:

I think I need to read the book first, but based on the description that you mentioned, Nikonov relies on another Russian scientist for his new revolutionist idea. I wonder... :mosking:

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

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Originally Posted by Полуношник

Actually, it's being disputed.

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I would appreciate a reference to a credible source that mentiones the sea ice is not disappearing.

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http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/2345-2/

http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index ... -thickens/

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

@LuxDefensor
As far as I remember, Nikonov used to predict a 'global hydrogen economy' based on the allegation by a Russian geologist that the hydrogen in the gaseous form could be mined straight from the Earth crust. I still don't really see that happening. Hmm... why's that? :search:

I think I need to read the book first, but based on the description that you mentioned, Nikonov relies on another Russian scientist for his new revolutionist idea. I wonder... :mosking:

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Well, I suppose it's his old journalist's habit, the quest for sensations :) It's not a scientific article, just some easy reading. But still, sometimes it's quite interesting. I hope you will enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Полуношник

http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/2345-2/
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index ... -thickens/

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Thanks, Полуношник. That is quite educational.