Russia warming twice as fast as the rest of the world

Has a Warming Russia Outpaced the World?

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Better known for long, bitterly cold winters, Russia is well on the way to becoming the poster child for the perils of global warming this summer.

On Thursday, the mercury hit 100 degrees in Moscow, the hottest day since record-keeping began in 1880; it was the fourth day in a week that the city set a temperature record. Highs for July and August typically average in the low-to-mid 70s.

The heat stoked wildfires that continue to burn out of control and have overwhelmed the country’s firefighters, while an unparalleled drought withered crops so severely that Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin took the radical step of banning all grain exports. Smoke from the fires has turned the Moscow air into a thick, toxic soup.

Russia’s president, Dmitri A. Medvedev, blamed the crisis on climate change and called for action.

“What’s happening with the planet’s climate right now needs to be a wake-up call to all of us, meaning all heads of state, all heads of social organizations, in order to take a more energetic approach to countering the global changes to the climate,” Mr. Medvedev said recently.
One extreme heat wave or drought, of course, is not definitive proof of climate change.

Yet the heat-induced disaster may come as little surprise to Russian climate scientists, who have warned for years that the country is experiencing rapid warming that will only accelerate over the course of the 21st century. Drawing on the work of leading climate researchers, a 2008 report compiled by Russia’s state environmental agency concluded that Russia was warming twice as fast as the rest of the world and experienced an average temperature increase of about 2.1 degrees Fahrenheit over the course of the 20th century.

“Most of Russia is located in the area of considerable observed and projected climate change,” the report states.

The report found that the work of Russian scientists “agreed well” with a comprehensive 2007 report by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which urged all nations to take action to rein in greenhouse gas emissions. “With high confidence one can claim that since the middle of the 20th century the observed growth of the concentration of anthropogenic greenhouse gases has stipulated the largest portion of global warming,” it concluded.

Proof of warming is widespread across Russia. Glaciers and Arctic sea ice have dwindled, and as many as 385,000 square miles of Siberian tundra are thawing.

Wildfires have also been on the rise for decades, a trend that scientists expect to accelerate as temperatures continue to rise in coming decades.

Source:
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...-world/?src=me

100% agree that this has to be related to global warming.

If the world was fair, North America and Western Europe would suffer the consequences of global warming. But instead it seems that it is countries that have not contributed greatly to global warming that are now suffering, such as Russia.

Such a very cold winter you had, with much more snow than normal... and now this tropical summer... ! So strange.... Meanwhile in England the weather is as bland as always.

I am beginning to think there should be some restrictions on how much individuals are allowed to pollute per year.

For example: Allow a maximum of 4 flights per person per year. Tons of people fly multiple times per month on un-necessary personal or business trips: every time they do, they pollute and increase global warming! 3-4 flights is more than enough for essential trips.

I think car usage should be restricted too. Not to mention pollution from industry. Just because someone can afford a lifestyle that destroys the planet doesn't mean they should be allowed to lead it....

Unbelievable that the USA refused to sign the Kyoto treaty to try to control global warming! It sets a precedence for other countries. What's it going to take for them to wake up and smell the rotten fish... Maybe if the situation in Moscow had occurred in Washington or New York.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

100% agree that this has to be related to global warming.

If the world was fair, North America and Western Europe would suffer the consequences of global warming. But instead it seems that it is countries that have not contributed greatly to global warming that are now suffering, such as Russia.

Such a very cold winter you had, with much more snow than normal... and now this tropical summer... ! So strange.... Meanwhile in England the weather is as bland as always.

I am beginning to think there should be some restrictions on how much individuals are allowed to pollute per year.

For example: Allow a maximum of 4 flights per person per year. Tons of people fly multiple times per month on un-necessary personal or business trips: every time they do, they pollute and increase global warming! 3-4 flights is more than enough for essential trips.

I think car usage should be restricted too. Not to mention pollution from industry. Just because someone can afford a lifestyle that destroys the planet doesn't mean they should be allowed to lead it....

Unbelievable that the USA refused to sign the Kyoto treaty to try to control global warming! It sets a precedence for other countries. What's it going to take for them to wake up and smell the rotten fish... Maybe if the situation in Moscow had occurred in Washington or New York.

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Hanna,
You choose to believe that global warming is caused by humans. I do not. There are scientists that believe what you believe but there are also scientists that believe what I believe. We of course are not helping the earth by polluting. How did the earth in the past come out of ice ages? If you want to live your life with less than 4 plane trips a year go for it. If you want to restrict your driving go for it. I work 70 miles from my house. Public transportation is not an option. I work in a data center. We use lots of electricity. The cap and trade nonsense I would think would devastate my industry. I have a suggestion for you and your global warming friends that will save a lot of electricity. Stop using the internet. Put up or shut up.

Scott

I really don't mind for some warming in Russia. :D There is an adverb: Жар костей не ломит.
And those fires it is mainly handiwork of people, blaming the climate it is переваливать вину с больной головы на здоровую.

It's difficult to make such a generalization from one event.

>There are scientists that believe what you believe but there are also scientists that believe what I believe.
The overwhelming majority of climate scientists are of the opinion that humankind is the cause.

I don't know if global warming is real or not. I'd like to think it isn't. But I have to agree with the left wingers on this one. Even if global warming is NOT real... and we still pass all these green bills. What is the worst thing that will happen if we are wrong? The planet will be cleaner. Seems like its pretty F'ing win win to me.

Maybe a few oil billionaires will have to sell a few of their country homes and yachts but, I'm pretty sure they'll be fine.

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

I don't know if global warming is real or not. I'd like to think it isn't. But I have to agree with the left wingers on this one. Even if global warming is NOT real... and we still pass all these green bills. What is the worst thing that will happen if we are wrong? The planet will be cleaner. Seems like its pretty F'ing win win to me.

Maybe a few oil billionaires will have to sell a few of their country homes and yachts but, I'm pretty sure they'll be fine.

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If all those bills pass but the global warming is not real, some men will become richer. The planet will not be cleaner. CO2 isn't a pollution.

I guess its not just about CO2 and not really just about the air anymore either. Drilling for natural gas has become a serious problem for fresh water supplies all over America.

OK so some people will get rich whilst cleaning the planet... Isn't that 100x better than people getting rich while polluting it? Well, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

I guess its not just about CO2 and not really just about the air anymore either. Drilling for natural gas has become a serious problem for fresh water supplies all over America.

OK so some people will get rich whilst cleaning the planet... Isn't that 100x better than people getting rich while polluting it? Well, isn't it?

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There are some sort of businessmen here in Russia. They call old people and persuade them to purchase a vacuum cleaner. Some of customers give them their last money. The cleaners are good, they work perfectly, but they are ten times more expensive than other cleaners which can do the same job.

В настоящее время тепло от пожаров убивает людей и многие страдают, поэтому в моей стране, люди хотят знать: есть группы, или фонда, или что-то, что человек может пожертвовать, чтобы помочь людям в Москве? Новости страшное, что столь многие из них заболевают и умирают от плохого воздуха и тепла. Если есть способ, чтобы помочь, многие люди в нашей стране будут готовы оказать помощь, в дар или любой другой. Безусловно, мне бы пожертвовать, чтобы помочь.

Пожалуйста, скажите, есть ли фонд или группу, или в противном случае, возможно, будет создан в ближайшее время. Our thoughts are with you.

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

I don't know if global warming is real or not. I'd like to think it isn't. But I have to agree with the left wingers on this one. Even if global warming is NOT real... and we still pass all these green bills. What is the worst thing that will happen if we are wrong? The planet will be cleaner. Seems like its pretty F'ing win win to me.

Maybe a few oil billionaires will have to sell a few of their country homes and yachts but, I'm pretty sure they'll be fine.

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I respect your desire to question authority, but the global warming situation is very real. It is like a trashcan that fills with beer bottles in an AA person's home. No one wants to admit to drinking the beer, each bottle is a shame - but the trash still fills up, and faster once it is established that no one will admit their bottles.

And although I do love my country (for what that's worth) - I know that America has a huge hand in this injustice. Skies are filled with pollutants we made. I remember when I was in school, just before the turn of the year 2000, my science teacher told us that the smog cloud covering western us was meeting with the one from eastern asia and officially covered the width of the entire planet.. Of course things have not improved since then, and so many un-truths have been told about oil. I wish we could actually change this, instead of hiding more beer bottles to solve the problem.

And now BP wants, by the way, to open the hole BACK up to get more "priceless" oil.. grr :evil:

Nice to hear that a few more people than me on this forum acknowledge global warming and want something done about it.

Not sure if it is already too late.
But if there is serious melting of the poles and the ice on Greenland, then a large number of coastal cities will be flooded across the globe, with horrendous refugee problems... And too hot weather will ruin crops across the world, as just happened in Russia... Things would be truly horrible!

And we'll have to ask ourselves: did I really need to go on all these holidays to another continent... did I really need all these gadgets, designer clothes travelling everywhere by car... and why was I too lazy to recycle... ?

I keep reflecting on these things as I am tied down in the super-consumerist and generally un-ecological lifestyle of London... :bad: Sorry if I am ranting about it.....

Hello!
I had been watching telecast where scientists set a device at stadium afterwards captured CO2 out of atmosphere into snare in big quantity that was equal ~ total sum breaths of all people at stadium for awhile sport competition. It would wonderfully if ventures could collect CO2 that was thrown into atmosphere or simply pick up gas equal average the vital functions of mankind on the Planet.

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Originally Posted by kidkboom

I respect your desire to question authority, but the global warming situation is very real. It is like a trashcan that fills with beer bottles in an AA person's home. No one wants to admit to drinking the beer, each bottle is a shame - but the trash still fills up, and faster once it is established that no one will admit their bottles.

And although I do love my country (for what that's worth) - I know that America has a huge hand in this injustice. Skies are filled with pollutants we made. I remember when I was in school, just before the turn of the year 2000, my science teacher told us that the smog cloud covering western us was meeting with the one from eastern asia and officially covered the width of the entire planet.. Of course things have not improved since then, and so many un-truths have been told about oil. I wish we could actually change this, instead of hiding more beer bottles to solve the problem.

And now BP wants, by the way, to open the hole BACK up to get more "priceless" oil.. grr :evil:

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I never said I don't believe in it or that it isn't real (I believe global warming is real). I was simply stating that even if it was not real (which it is) what is the worst that can happen about cleaning our planet? The planet will be cleaner even though we were wrong. I agree with you 100%.

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There are some sort of businessmen here in Russia. They call old people and persuade them to purchase a vacuum cleaner. Some of customers give them their last money. The cleaners are good, they work perfectly, but they are ten times more expensive than other cleaners which can do the same job.

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What does that even mean? The reason windmills are so expensive is because no one is buying them. There is no demand. Once they start buying them and making more of them, the prices will go down. As for solar panels, well its because they used to literally be made of gold. They have recently found new material to stick in them as a substitute for gold though, so their prices should be falling soon as well.

I still don't get your point? So someone will get rich off of cleaning the planet. Who cares? You can't compare it to a vacuum cleaner because all vacuum cleaners clean. When talking about the environment its either clean or dirty, theres no middle ground.

Besides the billions we spend on overseas could be used to jump start clean energy here,but sadly it probably won't ever happen.

Hanna and Dogboy and others who talk about global warming, you are telling the right things, of course. Especially when it comes to cleaning and recycling, which is vital.
But let's look at the whole picture. All our technologies are based on the energy of hydrocarbons. If we try to decrease its consumption it will lead to famine becuase the population of the planet is so huge that we need global economy to survive. Try to isolate continents and contries from each other and we begin to extinct. Another option is to try to find another sources of energy. As you know, production of solar panes is very dirty technology. It doesn't matter now, because the amount of produced panes is not very large, but if we want to make it truly popular we have to built many factories which will then start to pollute the environment. As for wind generators, they are too expensive in production and maintaining and to provide enough energy we have to cover half of Europe with them. The only type of energy that can save us is, in my opinion, thermonuclear energy which isn't available yet. So the only way to survive is to support progress of sciense and technology. This is the decent subject fro spending as much money and efforts as we can. IMHO.

One more thing about CO2 and is it really anthropogenic. Do you remember the eruption of the Iceland volcano (with unutterable name) this spring? Do you remember that huge cloud of ash that covered all Europe. Where is all that ash now? And do you know what was the composition of that cloud?
http://eco.rian.ru/documents/20100418/223794946.html
It's not the first eruption in the history, and not the last one. Comparing to the volanos' contribution to the emission of carbon dioxide ours is not so very large as it seems. :)
P.S. I once read in a popular book that taking into account the cycling nature of ice ages it is exactly the time for a new one. And thanks to the greenhouse effect that we are still not frozen to death ;)

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

I still don't get your point? So someone will get rich off of cleaning the planet. Who cares? You can't compare it to a vacuum cleaner because all vacuum cleaners clean. When talking about the environment its either clean or dirty, theres no middle ground.

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I don't get your point either. Do you want to spend your money to make some people richer or your purpose to clean the planet?

CO2 is a natural component of the atmosphere. It doesn't make the planet dirtier. Those who say to you that decrease of carbon dioxide emission will make the planet cleaner are trying to sell you a ridiculously expensive vacuum cleaner. The most part of its price is determined by properties which doesn't have any connection with the ability to clean the environment. Why not to bye a cheaper cleaner instead? There are direct means to decrease pollutions.

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I don't get your point either. Do you want to spend your money to make some people richer or your purpose to clean the planet?

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Yes, exactly. I do. Why would ANYBODY spend money on sh** thats going to kill the earth... The only one that we have when you can spend money to clean it up. And its not just C02. Who cares about CO2? There are thousands and thousands of chemicals going into the sky, earth, water all the time. It doesn't even have to be chemicals. Too much of anything is never good (unless you're an oil billionaire then too much money is great)

http://www.youtube.com/sistersister2727

Just some chemicals used in the process to mine natural gas.

You don't even have a point. You just live and pollute and cause a mess and just don't care about it. You have no point yous so technically you can't even argue.

@LuxDefensor

Who cares if people starve? People are staving right now even with out dependence on oil? Isn't that what a capitalist free market is about? Being the newest/ biggest / best?

So if some companies come out with newer better energy and older companies that don't want to adapt go broke and people lose their jobs then so what? Its a free market. Thats the name of the game. Theres people out of work and starving all over the world right now. :upset:

Next point?

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Originally Posted by Hanna

But if there is serious melting of the poles and the ice on Greenland, then a large number of coastal cities will be flooded across the globe, with horrendous refugee problems... And too hot weather will ruin crops across the world, as just happened in Russia... Things would be truly horrible!

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Hanna, most of alarming news about melting of ice say about Arctic ice and Antarctic shelf ice. This ice is floating ice and its melting cannot contribute to rise of sea level and cannot flood cities. It melts each summer and freeze each winter. Seasonal variations of amount of ice are much greater than variations of minimal amount of ice in summer time from year to year. Nevertheless we don't hear about hundreds coastal cities flooded each summer.

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Who cares if people starve? People are staving right now even with out dependence on oil? Isn't that what a capitalist free market is about? Being the newest/ biggest / best?

So if some companies come out with newer better energy and older companies that don't want to adapt go broke and people lose their jobs then so what? Its a free market. Thats the name of the game. Theres people out of work and starving all over the world right now. :upset:

Next point?

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Oh yes they are starving! But still, population increases thanks to techonolgies and oil consumption. And not only that but all that is "progress". Now if we lose our sources of energy we lose the whole set. And it will be not about starving but about extinction. That's the point: we need energy. While oil and gas are all that we have (statistically speaking) we will continue to burn oxygene and to pollute carbon dioxide. There is no way to significantly decrease the amount of pollution and to remain the technological civilization. For now.

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

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I don't get your point either. Do you want to spend your money to make some people richer or your purpose to clean the planet?

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Yes, exactly.

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What exactly? You want to spend your money to make a small group of people richer?

The point is not money. The point is switching to clean energy. The argument of the right wing who is against new forms of energy is that its just left wingers getting rich off of wind.

Ok so whats the problem? People getting rich right now off oil. At least wind doesn't kill anything.

Global warming is a conspiracy by the Americans, Europeans and Chinese to make sure winter won't save Russia next time. All is going according to plan... :beer:

Hey, Russians tend to love conspiracies, especially international ones aimed against Russia. So there you go. Added global warming to the list. Враги везде! :good:

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

The point is not money. The point is switching to clean energy. The argument of the right wing who is against new forms of energy is that its just left wingers getting rich off of wind.

Ok so whats the problem? People getting rich right now off oil. At least wind doesn't kill anything.

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I didn't say they kill. They cheat people and make them spend more money, than is necessary.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

Nice to hear that a few more people than me on this forum acknowledge global warming and want something done about it.

Not sure if it is already too late.
But if there is serious melting of the poles and the ice on Greenland, then a large number of coastal cities will be flooded across the globe, with horrendous refugee problems... And too hot weather will ruin crops across the world, as just happened in Russia... Things would be truly horrible!

And we'll have to ask ourselves: did I really need to go on all these holidays to another continent... did I really need all these gadgets, designer clothes travelling everywhere by car... and why was I too lazy to recycle... ?

I keep reflecting on these things as I am tied down in the super-consumerist and generally un-ecological lifestyle of London... :bad: Sorry if I am ranting about it.....

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First off, I'm a little perplexed that you have these strong sentiments and are living in London. It's a megacity - you can't expect it to be a beacon of ecology.

Secondly, I think a great deal of scepticism regarding global warming might not necessarily arise from people who don't believe it exists. I personally do believe in it. More important is the fact that in order to have a significant impact on the global climate, you need global co-operation. You can't simply have a bunch of nations recycling a bit more. It is somewhat hypocritical of western nations such as the UK to suddenly decide that enough is enough - conveniently at a time when we are industralised whilst other nations are not and are in the process of doing so. We cannot expect developing nations to suddenly stop developing because the West believes it is time to do something about global warming.

However, yes, little things such as recycling are good, but solely because it is a good thing to reuse items anyway.


Oh, and:

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Originally Posted by deker

I really don't mind for some warming in Russia. :D There is an proverb: Жар костей не ломит.
And those fires it is mainly handiwork of people, blaming the climate it is переваливать вину с больной головы на здоровую.

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:wink:

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Ok so whats the problem? People getting rich right now off oil. At least wind doesn't kill anything.

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Birds caught in the wind turbines won't thank you for saying that :P

Interesting article

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Originally Posted by LuxDefensor

One more thing about CO2 and is it really anthropogenic. [..] P.S. I once read in a popular book that taking into account the cycling nature of ice ages it is exactly the time for a new one. And thanks to the greenhouse effect that we are still not frozen to death ;)

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I'm not sure if the current global warming is really anthropogenic. However, I think the global warming does exist based on the dynamics of the melting of both polar caps. This info is open and I don't think it's been disputed. So, what should we do? I would really like to read that popular book mentioned by LuxDefensor as, to the best of my knowledge, the vast majority of the modern climate models are based on the major ocean currents and not on the amout of the greenhouse gases that allegedely save us from the ice age. So, let's say the global warming is not antropogenic, what should we do? I think the first thing would be cooling off the planet so that the dynamics of the melting ice would stop and preserve the ocean currents in their current state. Reducing the amount of the CO2 in the atmosphere is one thing to start with. (The other, more invasive approaches would include creating a shade by means of the 'space mirror'.)

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

I would really like to read that popular book mentioned by LuxDefensor

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A.Nikonov - very polpular author but very contentious

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

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Originally Posted by LuxDefensor

However, I think the global warming does exist based on the dynamics of the melting of both polar caps. This info is open and I don't think it's been disputed.

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Actually, it's being disputed.

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Originally Posted by Полуношник

Actually, it's being disputed.

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I would appreciate a reference to a credible source that mentiones the sea ice is not disappearing.

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Originally Posted by http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100428142324.htm

"It was previously thought that loss of sea ice could cause further warming. Now we have confirmation this is already happening."

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@LuxDefensor
As far as I remember, Nikonov used to predict a 'global hydrogen economy' based on the allegation by a Russian geologist that the hydrogen in the gaseous form could be mined straight from the Earth crust. I still don't really see that happening. Hmm... why's that? :search:

I think I need to read the book first, but based on the description that you mentioned, Nikonov relies on another Russian scientist for his new revolutionist idea. I wonder... :mosking:

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

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Originally Posted by Полуношник

Actually, it's being disputed.

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I would appreciate a reference to a credible source that mentiones the sea ice is not disappearing.

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http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/2345-2/

http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index ... -thickens/

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

@LuxDefensor
As far as I remember, Nikonov used to predict a 'global hydrogen economy' based on the allegation by a Russian geologist that the hydrogen in the gaseous form could be mined straight from the Earth crust. I still don't really see that happening. Hmm... why's that? :search:

I think I need to read the book first, but based on the description that you mentioned, Nikonov relies on another Russian scientist for his new revolutionist idea. I wonder... :mosking:

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Well, I suppose it's his old journalist's habit, the quest for sensations :) It's not a scientific article, just some easy reading. But still, sometimes it's quite interesting. I hope you will enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Полуношник

http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/2345-2/
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index ... -thickens/

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Thanks, Полуношник. That is quite educational.