The first ever Slavic pope died last night.
Printable View
The first ever Slavic pope died last night.
Rather, he died 2 hours ago.
Still it is very sad.
I Don't understand why Christians are sad. Isn't he supposed to go live with God?Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
Yes, Mordan, let us all rejoice in the death of the pope! :roll:
Rather, the first man of Slavic descent to wear a pointy hat and carry a big stick has died.
In Turkey, the leatherworker Mehmet has died.
Какая там разница?
The difference may be that your fictitious Mehmet hasn't meant much to the hundreds of millions of catholics, while the pope did?
But that's fine, u are allowed to be indifferent!
Anyway the hat isn't THAT big!
I still don't see why one man's death is more important than another's. At any rate the pope's death seems to be a rather normal one; he lived to a ripe old age and then died, like all old people. If he had been assassinated or something, I could understand people making such a fuss over it.
Of course, you and all the American media networks are allowed to be sad about it.
Mehmet may have died alone, but I see no point in comparing number of mourners like some kind of score. But why don't we, for fun? :)
Number of mourners for Pope's death: 1,000,000,000+
Number of mourners for Mehmet's death: 0
Number of countries visited by Pope: 100+
Number of countries visited by Mehmet : 0
Number of exorcisms performed by Pope: 3
Number of exorcisms performed by Mehmet: 0
Number of shoes made by Pope: 0
Number of shoes made by Mehmet: 1000+
Pope beats Mehmet in three out of four categories. I guess his existence was more important than Mehmet's.
Мне очень грустно. :oops:
Какая разница, умереть богатым или бедным?Quote:
Originally Posted by kwatts59
Какая разница, умереть богатым или бедным?
Какая разница, умереть богатым или бедным?
И вот тебе вопрос: Какая разница, умереть попом или меховщиком?
People arent just sad for the pope because of religious reasons. He was a great figure in politics too. He played an important role in the fall of communism, and showed compassion for everyone. He may have been a religious leader, but he was also a great person. I had the privelage of seeing him once, but not one on one of course. He just gives off this vibe thats hard to explain. He was a cool dude. Im looking forward to seeing who the next pope will be, but let us not forget John Paul II.
I don't care if he was a religious leader or a Wild West cowboy. Would you not think it ridiculous if everyone made such a fuss over the death of my Мехмет-меховщик? So why Karol the chemical factory worker from Krakow?
I take it you dont have many religious beliefs.... Its just that when a person that so many ppl love dies..its sad to lots of ppl. The pope was an icon...your shoe maker was not.
Prav-it!
It is not about who's life is more worth than others. All life is worth the same. People are sad that the pope died, because they care about him. They would also be sad if their mother died, their dog and anything else that matter to them, even their pet-hamster named Mehmet.
You obviously don't care too much about him, but please don't make fun of the people who do. Ave!
It's precisely this attitude which keeps me away from having any religious beliefs.Quote:
Mr. A was an icon...Mr. B was not.
Yeah, and people care about Terri Schiavo too, despite not knowing her, even though hundreds of people in vegetative states die every day. People also seem to care about Jessica Lynch despite many American POWs that do not come back alive.Quote:
because they care about him.
Not making fun of anyone who cares about the pope, but I find there are many people who do not actually care about the pope and are not even Catholics saying that they're sad because the television is making a big deal about it. LMAA.
I agree with eveything kalinka_vinnie wrote.
>I still don't see why one man's death is more important than another's.
It isn't. What you are seeing/hearing about is the grief of individuals who felt some connection to the Pope. They are expressing their own sorrow at losing this man. If your makebelieve shoemaker had had millions of people who loved him and made a pilgrimage to his village, that would be on TV too. That's the news, not just another person dying.
Grief my ass, again. If Catholics got something with the Pope, fine, I'm not Catholic, so I wouldn't know. But I'm hearing every Joe Muhammad say he feels sad about the Pope dying just because the television is making a big fuss about it. Joe Muhammad needs to get his head out of his ass and figure out who he actually cares about and who the TV is telling him to care about.
I think the starvation of Terry Shaivo is a more important story.
Well, Pravit, why should anything be more important than anything else? Huh? Please explain why my shoe is less important than the northern hemisphere?
Why is it any more logical to think that all human life is equally valuable than to think that some are more important than others? To believe that there is only one right answer to this is to admit that you have unquestioningly accepted a social value as a universal truth.
Kind of like those, uh...TV watchers you were complaining about?
You are missing my point, Geoduck. It would be ridiculous to do a TV story on the death of my leatherworker, so why is it not ridiculous to do a huge story on the pope's death? But the one thing that is getting on my nerves is everyone saying they're so sad the pope died when they're not even Catholics, don't even know the guy personally, and wouldn't even have known or cared if the TV didn't tell them.
There are plenty of things more important than something else, the point is, both the Pope and the leatherworker are dead men. Why are a bunch of people who didn't even think about the pope's existence(unless someone tried to assassinate him or something) suddenly acting like they care? I am not going into importance here. Obviously a man who wears a pointy hat must be more important than a man who makes shoes. My point is - why judge the value of their lives and the meaning of their deaths?Quote:
Well, Pravit, why should anything be more important than anything else? Huh? Please explain why my shoe is less important than the northern hemisphere?
It is not.Quote:
Why is it any more logical to think that all human life is equally valuable than to think that some are more important than others?
When did I say there is only one right answer?Quote:
To believe that there is only one right answer to this is to admit that you have unquestioningly accepted a social value as a universal truth.
No it isn't.Quote:
is to admit that you have unquestioningly accepted a social value as a universal truth.
It would be ridiculous to do a story on your leatherworker because no one knows of him. He is just that. A leather worker, sitting at his little bench, making shoes. The pope was a religious leader, and a cultural icon. He was leader to over 1 billion people. Of course his death is going to be huge! Everyone knew him. But not Mehmet. He is just a leatherworker.
And people can be sad for the pope, even if they werent catholic. If someone told me that a leatherworker that i have never heard of died, I would still feel bad for him. Its not because the news told me to feel sad. When someone dies, its a sad thing.
To me, he is just a man, like Mehmet, and I don't see why he is anything more to that to all the people who have nothing to do with him. Or why people seem to care more about the Pope now that he's dead.
Maybe he's not more than that to all the people who have nothing to do with him. He could still be just a guy to them. But still, its sad, because a person, a human being, has died.
Har har har. How come you aren't sad every moment of the day then? There are worse things going on every day than a very old man dying of natural causes.Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot
Im not sad every moment of the day, because i dont hear of every person that dies everyday.
So you have to be told a person died before you're sad, even though you know people are dying even as I type this message? You could look in your newspaper's obituaries section or something. Get a little kick start of sadness every morning.
Well i know ppl are dying right now. Its obvious. But its when you actually hear a persons name, and see them and think "wow. that person had a family." then you get a little sad for them. and reading the obituaries is sad..thats why i avoid them.
Aww.
It is a little sad now that you think about it. A person, feeling compassion for another person. Who'd of thunk it.
Perhaps we should just close this thread. There is no point in arguing about this. It could go on for days. Lets just stop it here, and leave it at that. Everyone has their own opinions. Besides, this is a russian forum.
Almost sounds like a Friendy sig!
(no offense Friendy, I still think you're #1 :thumbs:)
Why are we getting on your nerves, Pravit-san? You think we are sad just because the media tells us to be? how ignorant do you think we are?
I thank the media for telling me the Pope is dead, otherwise I wouldn't of known. They make a big story out of it, because he is the leader of the catholic church, 1 billion people have true feelings towards him. You can't blame the media on this, голубчик.
I am not sad because the media tells me, maybe I didn't know him personally, but it still makes me sad. He did good things to millions of people, and now he has passed away. Just because you don't know the person personally or think about him every day, you can truly sense the loss these millions of people must feel. You don't, fine, but lets not make a big sircus out of it!
Anyway they are degrees to sadness, it isn't black or white. I would feel more saddened if someone closer to me had died, naturally. I feel a moderate sadness towards the pope, little sadness to the random Igor who died at 99 in Kazan, and minute sadness to the ant I stepped on and cold-bloodedly murdered. His name was Mehmet.
Kalinka, I must point out that my first post in this thread was a little comment expressing my views, whereas all of the replies to them were confrontational. In effect, the pope-lovers provoked the circus. :)
Edit: And I must admit, probably I was just tired of hearing about the Pope's endless health problems and all the gruesome details about feeding tubes.
Thou art forgiven! :)
Thanks, babe!
I sense closure. This makes me happy.
I don't. The next person who doesn't like what I said about the pope is going to come by and flame me(this seems to happen even after threads have been dead for some time). I can feel it!
Its closed enough for me.
I feel that I need to respond to your question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pravit
This is a very strange statement. Are you saying death is death? Are you implying there is no difference who dies? What is the difference between the death of your mother or the death of Hitler?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pravit
I feel saddened by the death of this holy man who has dedicated his life for the benefit of a better world. I remember 30 years ago when he first became the Pope. I remember some of his missions. I remember when he was shot. And now he has died. I admit that I have never met with him or spoke with him personally as like many other people. But, I was raised Catholic; I was Baptized and Confirmed Catholic; I went to Catholic schools for many years and there is no doubt in my mind that Pope John Paul II was a great man. It is sad when someone of great importance passes on. It does not matter whether or not you are Catholic or even religious. I do not understand why being sad for the death of the Pope is an issue.
What is the difference between the death of a king, or the death of a carpenter?
Dunno, it sounds a lot like your signature.Quote:
What is the difference between the death of a king, or the death of a carpenter?
Sure it does; I'm sure if you were a European during the Middle Ages you couldn't give a hoot if the Caliph died.Quote:
It does not matter whether or not you are Catholic or even religious.
LOL. You don't get it, Pravit. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Pravit
The carpenter is far more important than the king.
I thought everybody knew that!
Pravitt has made a valid point. There is a lot of commotion made over the pope's death. That is all that is on the news now. People act as though the man was as pure as snow, as though he was better than anyone on earth. As if he was a leader of truth and light. Was he better than every one else? Not likely. But I don't know if he was good or bad and I don't know anything at all about Pravitt's leather guy. But I do know of a lot a people who would not be sad at the death of a pope because of what he represents and that does not include the 150,000,000 men women and children killed by popes in the Dark Ages in Europe. (By the way the popes at that time were known to have led celebrations through the streets to commemorate these killings, oh what the hell, let's call it what it was, murder!) Some people argue that the immorality of Popes is a thing of the past. That objection fails, however because even if only Popes of the past were immoral, and modern Popes had not been, the papacy’s claim to authority today rests upon the legitimacy of those past popes
So Pravitt is right. There is something fishy about all this "let's be sad about the pope" routine. Most people don't even know the first thing of the true nature of the papacy, so why are they acting all sad all of a sudden. Perhaps they should be happy. I think that they just go along things without really thinking things through, rather like a bunch of old cows do once you get them lined out on the road.
Oh, I know I took this a few steps further than Pravitt so if you are going to flame him you better flame me too…….ayl be awaitn’.
.