Thread: Politeness in America

Originally Posted by Оля

Originally Posted by doninphxaz

For instance, a Russian college instructor is likely to say, "You are a really weak student. Study harder or you will fail." In the same context in the US an instructor will feel obliged to say something like, "You have an excellent brain, and if you put a little bit more time into studying, then you will do much better."

Oh my Gooooooooooooood. Is it really so?
No, really, it's quite strange to me. And not to me only, I think...

Yes, this is a huge difference between our cultures. Or at least between parts of it. There is significant pressure in parts of American society to not say things to people that might make them feel bad about themselves. I don't mean to say that everyone in the US acts that way, but the people I consider polite do, for the most part.

A buddy of mine who is a doctor once treated a child with a thyroid condition, if I remember correctly. The child was not taking her medicine consisitently and gained a lot of weight. He told the mother that she needed to actively work with her child to develop the habit of taking the medication on time, otherwise the daughter would always be fat. The mother lodged a complaint against the doctor because he had called her daughter fat. That's how hypersensitive we Americans are sometimes to criticism.

And polite people often will say things indirectly. My mother has observed that if you give direct, unsolicited advice to people, they may be offended. So when she wants to give advice to certain family members, she won't say directly, "Do such-and-such." Instead she'll say, "I remember once that so-and-so had a similar situation, and he did such-and-such. That seemed to work out really well." That way she delivers helpful information without setting off the negative reaction that direct advice might set off.

Originally Posted by doninphxaz

The mother lodged a complaint against the doctor because he had called her daughter fat.

Вспомнился анекдот, когда дамочку назвали полной дурой, и она обиделась на слово полная. =)

I remember once that so-and-so had a similar situation, and he did such-and-such

Isn't it.... mmm... erm... lie?
I mean, she has to say that thing even if there was no any so-and-so person and there was no any "similar situation", has she?

Originally Posted by Оля

I remember once that so-and-so had a similar situation, and he did such-and-such

Isn't it.... mmm... erm... lie?
I mean, she has to say that thing even if there was no any so-and-so person and there was no any "similar situation", has she?

No, she only says that when there in fact was a so-and-so who did such-and-such. Mom doesn't tell lies; she just expresses things indirectly. If there is no so-and-so, then she says something like, "Gosh, I wonder what I would do in that kind of situation? Maybe I would do such-and-such. What do you think of that?" But she would avoid saying directly, "Don, there's an easy solution. Just do such-and-such."

The problem of America is that there are too many lawyers.
They all have education and they all demand high salaries. So they go out of their way to create new challenges in the field of law.
The solution is simple: hang all the lawyers or at least make them find decent jobs.

Originally Posted by doninphxaz

My mother has observed that if you give direct, unsolicited advice to people, they may be offended. So when she wants to give advice to certain family members, she won't say directly, "Do such-and-such." Instead she'll say, "I remember once that so-and-so had a similar situation, and he did such-and-such. That seemed to work out really well." That way she delivers helpful information without setting off the negative reaction that direct advice might set off.
...
No, she only says that when there in fact was a so-and-so who did such-and-such. Mom doesn't tell lies; she just expresses things indirectly. If there is no so-and-so, then she says something like, "Gosh, I wonder what I would do in that kind of situation? Maybe I would do such-and-such. What do you think of that?" But she would avoid saying directly, "Don, there's an easy solution. Just do such-and-such."

You know, I actually don't think that it's something wrong with that situation. I don't think we should order directly to people, and to certain family members, "do such-and-such". And I think your mom is a quite polite woman.

I just was a little shocked about the situation with students. That you say to a bad student "You have an excellent brain"...

And yes, the story about the fat girl and her mother would shock any Russian, I'm sure.

Originally Posted by Оля

I remember once that so-and-so had a similar situation, and he did such-and-such

Isn't it.... mmm... erm... lie?
I mean, she has to say that thing even if there was no any so-and-so person and there was no any "similar situation", has she?

Isn't it.... mmm... erm... a lie?
I mean she has to say that even if there was no such so-and-so and no such similar situation, doesn't she?

Originally Posted by Ramil

The problem of America is that there are too many lawyers.
They all have education and they all demand high salaries. So they go out of their way to create new challenges in the field of law.
The solution is simple: hang all the lawyers or at least make them find decent jobs.

And now make it indirectly.

Originally Posted by Оля

I just was a little shocked about the situation with students. That you say to a bad student "You have an excellent brain"...

Actually, most weak students do have decent brains: they are just too lazy to use them. As to the girl the other day, she had straight A's last year, but this year she overburdened herself. I won't tell a bad student he has a good brain. Now I just say, "If you don't come to class and do homework, you will fail." I'm not subtle about them anymore.

America's sensitivity and the aforementioned necessity to do and say everything with politeness is a historically intrinsic trait, inherited from its' sense of unconditional acceptance.

Originally Posted by Оля

You know, I actually don't think that it's something wrong with that situation. I don't think we should order directly to people, and to certain family members, "do such-and-such". And I think your mom is a quite polite woman.

I just was a little shocked about the situation with students. That you say to a bad student "You have an excellent brain"...

And yes, the story about the fat girl and her mother would shock any Russian, I'm sure.

You know, I don't actually think there's anything wrong with that situation. I don't think we should order people directly or tell certain family members to do "do such-and-such". And I think your mom is quite a polite woman.

Американец успокоил девчонку - «Не обижайся - мол, - у них всё по другому, по честному» и наш народ загордился. Вот оказывается мы какие, Русские, прямые, бескомпромиссные - «настоящие индейцы». А я вспомнил сразу передачу «Форт Байард». Помните такую? Когда у участника очередного испытания ни черта не получается, все ему, «Давай, братан, у тебя всё будет хорошо, ты сделаешь это, ты вообще лучше всех!»
А братан sucks по полной программе.
Я наоборот где-то слышал, что в больницах у них смертельно больному без церемоний говорят, что жить ему осталось месяц. И все дела.

Originally Posted by doninphxaz

... I won't tell a bad student he has a good brain. Now I just say, "If you don't come to class and do homework, you will fail." I'm not subtle about them anymore.

Понятно. "С кем поведёшься, ...". ( http://sayings.ru/eproverb/056.html )