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Thread: Plane With 200 Aboard Crashes Past Runway in Siberia

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    Plane With 200 Aboard Crashes Past Runway in Siberia

    From NYtimes:

    MOSCOW, Sunday, July 9 — A Russian passenger airliner flying from Moscow to Siberia crashed as it landed at an airport on Sunday morning. At least 145 of the 200 people on board died, according to initial reports, while the others were hospitalized, many with burns.

    The airplane, an Airbus A-310 flying from Moscow, veered off the runway as it was landing in Irkutsk, a regional capital close to Lake Baikal in Siberia, a spokeswoman for the Emergency Situations Ministry in Moscow said.

    The plane then struck a concrete barrier and burst into flames, according to the Emergency Situations Ministry. Ekho Moskvy radio reported that many of the passengers were children traveling to vacation on the lake, the world's largest body of fresh water.

    The impact of the collision destroyed nose of the plane, but at least some of the passengers managed to evacuate through the plane's rear door, the Russian news agency Interfax reported. The plane burned for more than two hours before the fires were extinguished.

    Preliminary reports on the deaths and injuries were sketchy and contradictory. All eight crew members, two pilots and six flight attendants, were reported to have been killed. The ministry spokeswoman, Nataliya Lukash, said that 55 people were hospitalized, while other reports cited lower figures. By 8 a.m. in Moscow, 65 bodies had been pulled from the charred wreckage.

    The cause of the crash was not immediately clear.

    "Something happened to the wheels and veered from the runway," Ms. Lukash said in a telephone interview.

    The crash was the second in two months involving an Airbus trying to land in Russia. On May 3, an A-320 operated by the Armenian national airline, Armavia, crashed in the Black Sea as it tried to land in stormy weather at the Russian coastal resort, Sochi. All 113 people aboard that flight died, and the cause has not yet been established.

    After a chaotic period in the 1990's that saw many crashes of aging Soviet-era planes, Russian air safety has improved significantly. Airlines have bought new planes, including Airbuses and Boeings, and expanded routes domestically and internationally.

    The Airbus A310 is typically set up by airlines with 220 passenger seats. At 153 feet long, it is in the middle range of Airbus models, bigger than the A320 but smaller than the A300 and the A330.

    The plane that crashed on Sunday was operated by S7 Airlines, known until recently as Sibir Airlines. It is Russia's second largest airline, after the state-controlled Aeroflot.

    S7 has 100 flights a day out of its hubs in Moscow and in Novosibirsk and Irkutsk in Siberia. Last year, the company adopted its new name and redesigned its aircraft in a distinctive yellow green color.

    The airline lost another of its planes in August 2004 when a suicide bomber destroyed a Tupolev-154 as it was flying from Moscow to Sochi. A bomb destroyed a second plane in simultaneous terrorist attacks that killed 90 people.
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    I flew by S7 from Kazan to Moscow.

    I often think people in the west are too harsh on Russian airlines safety records. Russia has some difficult whether conditions and also a huge number of flights, so the chances of crashes are higher. But I did notice stuff on the S7 flight I took. Firstly there was no computerised checking in system, it was done by paper and such. Then on the flight there was luggage that should have been in the hold (big suitcases and lots of them), piled into the empty aisles. Is that allowed?

    Because you are allowed to keep small knives and stuff in your main luggage, because it will be out of your reach on the plane. But if peoples' main luggage is in the main cabbin they could retrieve it.
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    Oh, it's such a pity this diamond in the rough, this self-taught air flight safety instructor TATY was never given a position with our carriers. Please keep sending in your observations and recommendations, TATY, I'm sure they will reconsider one day.
    Show yourself - destroy our fears - release your mask

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    Маргарита Светлова (пассажирка рейса А-310): Мы стали садиться, сели нормально, все было гладко. После того как стали останавливаться, вновь стали разгоняться, я думаю, взлетаем. Потом полоса закончилась, нас стало трясти. Мы крылом зацепились и врезались в забор. Страшно, начался пожар, люди стали кричать. Я видела, как люди горели. Я на минуту сознание потеряла. Потом отстегнула ремень и побежала. Выскочила одна из самых первых. Какой-то мужчина подбежал, открыл дверь. Сам выпрыгнул, и три человека выпрыгнули. Трап не надулся. Я тоже выпрыгнула, мне повезло, ударилась ногой немного.

    отсюда http://www.rbc.ru

    если это подтвердится, то надо молчать т.к. о мертвых либо хорошее либо ничего

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alware
    После того как стали останавливаться, вновь стали разгоняться, я думаю, взлетаем.
    У меня дедушка раньше был лётчиком. Он говорит, что такого быть не может, что самолёт вначале тормозит, а потом разгоняется вновь. Даже если отказали реверсы двигателей, то всё равно ничто во время посадки не может (механически/технически) заставить самолёт разгоняться. Дедушка сказал, что это всего лишь ощущения.
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    Yes, usually once the aircrafts land, they reverse their jet engines, deccelerating the aircraft greatly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReDSanchous
    то всё равно ничто во время посадки не может (механически/технически) заставить самолёт разгоняться.
    так уж и не может?

    А если проворонили и поздно произвели посадку и вместо того чтоб продолжить торможение и выкатиться за полосу на небольшой скорости решили взлететь??

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReDSanchous
    Quote Originally Posted by Alware
    После того как стали останавливаться, вновь стали разгоняться, я думаю, взлетаем.
    У меня дедушка раньше был лётчиком. Он говорит, что такого быть не может, что самолёт вначале тормозит, а потом разгоняется вновь. Даже если отказали реверсы двигателей, то всё равно ничто во время посадки не может (механически/технически) заставить самолёт разгоняться. Дедушка сказал, что это всего лишь ощущения.
    А закон сохранения импулься?
    Можно провести такой эксперимент - разогнаться на автомобиле, затем резко нажать на тормоз. Не дожидаясь полной остановки - отпустить тормоз.
    Автомобиль слегка ускорится, так как его импульс не был полностью погашен тормозами.
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    Does you not mean that you are not experts? And our discussion is not more than gossips. Let's leave solution of this crash to the real specialists.
    "...я взбиваю подушку мычащим "ты" за морями, которым конца и края, в темноте всем телом твои черты, как безумное зеркало повторяя."
    (с) Иосиф Бродский

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    Let us speculate a little or make some new interesting post to discuss.

    This forum is all about just that - gossiping
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodor
    Does you not mean that you are not experts? And our discussion is not more than gossips. Let's leave solution of this crash to the real specialists.
    Let's leave everything to real specialists and then let's talk about ..... what?

    What about that landing, I think i'd listen to those specialists and on the other hand I'm gonna try to analize it myself cause surprisingly there happen to be some people on those planes besides pilots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Quote Originally Posted by ReDSanchous
    Quote Originally Posted by Alware
    После того как стали останавливаться, вновь стали разгоняться, я думаю, взлетаем.
    У меня дедушка раньше был лётчиком. Он говорит, что такого быть не может, что самолёт вначале тормозит, а потом разгоняется вновь. Даже если отказали реверсы двигателей, то всё равно ничто во время посадки не может (механически/технически) заставить самолёт разгоняться. Дедушка сказал, что это всего лишь ощущения.
    А закон сохранения импулься?
    Можно провести такой эксперимент - разогнаться на автомобиле, затем резко нажать на тормоз. Не дожидаясь полной остановки - отпустить тормоз.
    Автомобиль слегка ускорится, так как его импульс не был полностью погашен тормозами.
    Ну это всего лишь ощущения. Слегка - это ерунда в данном случае, т.к. если бы самолёт слегка ускорялся, то последствия были бы намного мягче. Что там какие-то +10 км/ч значат, когда всего за несколько секунд можно полностью остановить самолёт, двигающийся со скоростью около 200 км/ч?

    А если проворонили и поздно произвели посадку и вместо того чтоб продолжить торможение и выкатиться за полосу на небольшой скорости решили взлететь??
    Это просто бред, честно говоря. Это ещё дороже могло бы быть. Решить взлететь в такой ситуации мог только двинутый. На это времени не хватило бы просто - менять работу двигателей в обратную сторону, разгонять самолёт, отключать тормоза, ставить в другое положение закрылки, узнать у диспетчера об обстановке впереди (чтобы не врезаться в другой самолёт) - там всё-таки не лётчики из пилотажной группы, скажем, Русские Стрижи сидели. А потом они не могли проворонить посадку, т.к. диспетчеру командир экипажа сообщил, что посадка совершенна.

    Вчера по ТВЦ смотрел программу (не знаю, как называется). В гостях был лётчик-испытатель 1 класса. Он тоже сказал, что при работающем реверсе двигателя такое поведение самолёта невозможно. А даже если реверсы не работали бы, то и других систем торможения с лихвой хватило бы на ВПП.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReDSanchous
    Это просто бред, честно говоря. Это ещё дороже могло бы быть. Решить взлететь в такой ситуации мог только двинутый. На это времени не хватило бы просто - менять работу двигателей в обратную сторону, разгонять самолёт, отключать тормоза, ставить в другое положение закрылки, узнать у диспетчера об обстановке впереди (чтобы не врезаться в другой самолёт) - там всё-таки не лётчики из пилотажной группы, скажем, Русские Стрижи сидели. А потом они не могли проворонить посадку, т.к. диспетчеру командир экипажа сообщил, что посадка совершенна.
    Щас поговорил с летчиком, он сказал что взлетать действительно мог начать только "двинутый" (мин. высота ухода на второй круг - 30м)
    Скорее всего что-то с системой торможения случилось.
    Я рад что мои догадки не подтверждаются.

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    Я лучше подожду, что нам скажут, по крайней мере, официально. Сейчас мы всего лишь строим догадки, в то время как даже сами летчики, даже самые опытные, говорят о том, что на основании имеющихся данных очень сложно назвать точную причину катастрофы.

    А, кстати, причём тут второй круг? Ведь на второй круг самолёты идут не делая первой посадки?!
    Я тоже рад, потому что недавно прочитал на РБК:
    "В России 23 мая 1994 года произошла первая катастрофа A-310 в истории страны. В результате падения лайнера в районе города Междуреченск (Кемеровская область) погибли 75 человек. Причиной аварии стали неправильные действия пилота, допустившего детей к управлению самолетом. "
    Так что всё может случиться.
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    An Airbus, perhaps the same type as the one that crashed in Irkutsk, overshot the runway in Canada earlier this year and caught fire. Luckily no one was injured.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VendingMachine
    Oh, it's such a pity this diamond in the rough, this self-taught air flight safety instructor TATY was never given a position with our carriers. Please keep sending in your observations and recommendations, TATY, I'm sure they will reconsider one day.
    It's called common sense.

    My friend had quite a large knife, which is allowed on aircraft if stored in the main luggage, even in America, I believe. But the idea is that main luggage is stored in the hold and not the main cabbin, hence people have no access to it. If you let someone carry a knife in their main luggage then storing the main luggage in the row behind them, you might as well let them keep it in their hand luggage. I'm not saying such practice had anything to do what happened in Irkutsk, but you'd think S7 would take EVERY precaution. Especially considering they lost two aircraft to terrorist bombings less than two years ago.


    The fact that you are and many other Russians are extremely over defensive about everything suggests underlying insecurities. Or is that more western propoganda? Or is it that I have an inferiority complex because I live in little England, and Russia is so huge?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    An Airbus, perhaps the same type as the one that crashed in Irkutsk, overshot the runway in Canada earlier this year and caught fire. Luckily no one was injured.
    TATY, as far as I remember, this happened last summer
    A plane operated by Air France overshot the runway and burst into flames in August of 2004. As you said no one was injured. I remember this because I was in Toronto when the accident happened. The media turned a lot of attention to the catastrophe, that's why I've remembered that incident for almost year.

    P.S. It was A340.
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    I'm sure it wasn't that long ago....
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    I think we are talking at cross purposes. What I'm talking about is:

    Relief after 'miracle' air escape



    Canada's transport minister has called it a "miracle" that over 300 passengers and crew escaped from an Air France jet that skidded off a Toronto runway.
    The Airbus A340 crashed in bad weather on Tuesday, slithering into a ravine before bursting into flames.

    Passengers described chaotic scenes as they tried to escape Flight 358 in darkness while a thunderstorm raged.

    Moments after the last survivor clambered away, the fuselage was engulfed in smoke and flames.


    A total of 297 passengers and 12 crew fled the wreckage of the plane, which had tried to land in bad weather at Toronto's Pearson airport.


    Airport officials said some 43 people were injured in the accident.

    It was the first major crash of an Airbus A340-300 since the model's debut flight in October 1991.

    Transport minister Jean Lapierre made it clear how close those on board came to death.


    "I would say this is a miracle," he said. "It's nothing short of a miracle."

    The Airbus crash-landed amid thunder and lightning at 1603 local time (2003 GMT).

    Several passengers suggested that the aircraft might have been hit by lightning either just before or just after landing.

    "It was raining hard," said Gilles Medioni, a passenger seated in the centre of the plane.

    "When we touched down a lot of people clapped their hands, but it was a little premature."

    Explosion fear

    After touching down on the runway the plane lurched across the wet tarmac, before skidding towards the airport perimeter.

    It overshot the runway by about 200m (660ft) into a shallow ravine next to Canada's busiest motorway, Highway 401, ending with its tail pointing in the air.


    About 3.30pm the day turned to night as the fiercest storm we have had for a long time got into full swing
    Andy Horton
    Mississauga, Ontario


    Passengers spoke of smoke and kerosene fumes filling the cabin as they scrambled to escape, fearful of a massive explosion.

    "Everybody was jumping as fast as possible and running everywhere, because the fear was that the plane would blow," passenger Olivier Dubois told the AFP news agency.

    Steve Shaw of the Greater Toronto Airport Authority said emergency services had been on standby at Pearson airport because of the developing thunderstorm throughout the day.

    The airport had been under a "red alert" since midday on Tuesday because of the danger of lightning.

    One witness said rescue workers reached the airliner within 50 seconds.

    The Air France plane that crashed on Tuesday entered service in 1999 and was last inspected on 5 July.

    It had flown up 28,418 flight hours across a total of 3,711 flights.



    Story from BBC NEWS:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/a ... 741015.stm

    Published: 2005/08/03 12:54:52 GMT

    © BBC MMVI
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