Thread: Number of Ukrainians currently living in Russia...

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Well Cantonese is considered a dialect of Chinese, and they are totally different phonetically...

I am not sure if there are any real definitions of what is exactly a dialect.
But, as far as Ukrainian and Russian go, different vocabulary, different alphabet, different grammar and different phonetics suggest that they are actually different languages, as common wisdom accepts it.
Polish is understandable to me, probably to a similar degree to how Ukrainian is understandable to a Russian person without any prior exposure. This does not mean that Polish is a dialect of Russian (or Ukrainian).

I actually have doubts about Cantonese too -- it is quite common to see it being referred to as "Cantonese language". Probably political considerations are the main reason it has not yet attained a formal language status in China (but as we know these are always subject to change).

Czech and Slovak are basically dialects, as are Serbian and Croatian. But the difference between Russian and Ukrainian is easily sufficient to be considered as separate languages.

Originally Posted by TATY

Czech and Slovak are basically dialects, as are Serbian and Croatian. But the difference between Russian and Ukrainian is easily sufficient to be considered as separate languages.

Serbian and Croatian are, but I am not so sure about Czech and Slovak. Slovak is a good deal easier to understand for me (I can't understand Czech at all). All Polish speakers I know also made the same observation - that they very easily understand Slovak, but not Czech.

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by Анатолий

Ukrainian and Russian languages are so close that if not for national pride the 2 languages could be considered dialects (together with Belarusian). Ukrainians constantly living and Russia were russified and now the reverse is true in Ukraine (to a lesser extent because Russian is still very strong and in common use in Ukraine). There is a huge number of mixed families and kids had to decide how to report themselves - including myself. My Russian mother insisted on me being Russian and I didn't resist besides, I didn't speak much Ukrainian, didn't read any Ukrainian books at that time.

I disagree that Ukrainian and Russian can be considered dialects. .

I didn't say that, read carefully! I am just comparing the similarities between the 2. A German dialect (e.g. Plattdeutsch) has more differences from standard German than Ukrainian from Russian.

Serbian and Croatian are, but I am not so sure about Czech and Slovak. Slovak is a good deal easier to understand for me (I can't understand Czech at all). All Polish speakers I know also made the same observation - that they very easily understand Slovak, but not Czech.

Deciding, which language can be called a language and which one a dialect is not only a linguistic but a politicial issue. Czech and Slovak are close as Russian and Ukrainian but different, Serbian and Croatian used to be called Serbo-Croatian language (with 2 alphabets shared by republics).

Originally Posted by Jeff

Originally Posted by DDT

Whoa! That must be some heavey shyt you've been smoking there Jeffy boy!! Roll another one.

I like that. May I use it as my signature ?

Why certainly! Be my guest.

[quote=Анатолий]

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by "Анатолий":1h1ul649

Ukrainian and Russian languages are so close that if not for national pride the 2 languages could be considered dialects (together with Belarusian). Ukrainians constantly living and Russia were russified and now the reverse is true in Ukraine (to a lesser extent because Russian is still very strong and in common use in Ukraine). There is a huge number of mixed families and kids had to decide how to report themselves - including myself. My Russian mother insisted on me being Russian and I didn't resist besides, I didn't speak much Ukrainian, didn't read any Ukrainian books at that time.

I disagree that Ukrainian and Russian can be considered dialects. .

I didn't say that, read carefully! I am just comparing the similarities between the 2. A German dialect (e.g. Plattdeutsch) has more differences from standard German than Ukrainian from Russian.

Serbian and Croatian are, but I am not so sure about Czech and Slovak. Slovak is a good deal easier to understand for me (I can't understand Czech at all). All Polish speakers I know also made the same observation - that they very easily understand Slovak, but not Czech.

Deciding, which language can be called a language and which one a dialect is not only a linguistic but a politicial issue. Czech and Slovak are close as Russian and Ukrainian but different, Serbian and Croatian used to be called Serbo-Croatian language (with 2 alphabets shared by republics).[/quote:1h1ul649]

Slovak and Czech are much closer than Russian and Ukrainian.

Slovak and Czech are much closer than Russian and Ukrainian.

I think, it's all the matter how you wish it to be? You want to emphasize the differences between Russian and Ukrainian? I don't want to discuss politics, I am just judging it from the linguistic point of view. Croatians emphasized the difference from Serbian after the break-up of Yugoslavia.

Czech language has the letter ř (r + zh), which makes pronunciation very different from Slovak and Slovaks have letter

Originally Posted by real_cola

One interesting thing i have read about last US Census is that among all the people that declared being either Ukrainian and/or of Ukrainian descent, only 13% something said they spoke Ukrainian.All it suggest though is that there sure are a lot of people that just because they had a Ukrainian grandfather or a grandmother they probably never knew, think it entitles them to declare they are Ukrainian or have noticeable ukrainian roots.

The same thing goes in Russia. Of course it's not 13%, nevertheless only 1,8 out of 2,9 milllion Ukrainians in Russia speak Ukrainian.

http://perepis2002.ru/ct/doc/lang.xls

By the way, why would Ukrainians living in Soviet Russia be that afraid to report themselves in a census? The whole idea looks bizarre to me.