Thread: Meltdown!

that's fine, man, it's all cool You just came across as saying that it is all bullsheise, which is the typical reaction of people nowadays. It is irritating, that's all.

Of course there will be cancer, even if we don't smoke. But that is far from saying that smoking doesn't cause cancer. Tell that to my friend's dad who had three oral surgeries to remove cancer and just two days ago had to remove one lung. Funny how he got cancer the very same place where he kept his cigar for the last 25 years. You think that he would have gotten cancer there anyway?

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Funny how he got cancer the very same place where he kept his cigar for the last 25 years. You think that he would have gotten cancer there anyway?

It's a little more complex than that. Chances are, you and I already have multiple microscopic tumors. It's how you treat your body or parts of it will define where these tumors will proliferate faster and how soon they become detectable. In fact, although smoking is undoubtly a great risk factor, it's what you eat seems to be more important. So yes, there is a chance that he would have gotten cancer anyway, who knows. This is just FYI. Also, the definition of "cause" is quite stringent in my field, so I can't afford nor am I used to use the word lightly.

In case you are wondering, I don't drive a huge asSUV, and I collect my recyclables. But that's mostly because I am a cheap bastard and proud of it.

My field has also a pretty stringent definition of "cause". I am an engineer, if something is wrong we try to find the root cause. I know we are just arguing over semantics here, but if micro tumors are there anyway (part of the natural system), what caused them to go el wacko? In my fault tree analysis, I would color that box red.

Anyway, keep recycling.

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

My field has also a pretty stringent definition of "cause". I am an engineer, if something is wrong we try to find the root cause. I know we are just arguing over semantics here, but if micro tumors are there anyway (part of the natural system), what caused them to go el wacko? In my fault tree analysis, I would color that box red.

Here is the difference. Cancer cells (or any other organisms) are not designed, they are the ones that survived. There may not be a root cause per se. I'll try and explain in your terms. If you have a system of thousands and thousands dependencies, triggers and feedbacks, what is the root cause that makes it go off balance? You pull switches A and B, but if the C is on, A and B being on is good and if it's off A and B being on is bad. And if A and C are on, D is off and if the A is on and D is off C is good if B is on, but bad if it's off, etc. And it's somewhat different for every person. And I am talking only a primitive model, in reality there are no switches, but dependencies, so be my guest and find the cause and effect relations. The most you can do is measure the probability and say - there, when this "cause" is present this "effect" is observed more often.

I might as well say that your organisms's ability to be born, develop, heal and protect itself from the environment is the cause of cancer. We are not designed, and cancer is a side effect of evolution.

Adoc and KV, my dear cyberfriends......
It's funny reading through this exchange "from the outside", so to speak.

You do both realize that you actually agree, don't you?

Befitting a language board, this is really a discussion about the semantics of the words "cause" and "trigger"......