Thread: Massacre at Virginia Tech

Originally Posted by DDT

It also appears that among the student males there were no heros. They seem to have done exactly what the killer told them. Many students appear to have been told to line up along a wall and wait to be shot, which they did.

The only hero so far, is a 76 year old Jewish Professor who had lived through a German concentration camp during WWII, as a boy. The Professor blocked the doorway of the classroom with his body and told the students to escape out the window.

It is unclear at the present but it seems that none of the male students stayed to help the Professor subdue the killer. They ran and left the professor to die alone.
Somehow this doesn't surprise me as I look at today's soft bellied American youths. There was no, "watching each others' back"!

At least he saved all people he could save. A great person, he was.

A great person indeed! I agree with Rtyom.
The whole story is painfully shocking, and the shock grows when such detailes appear. If same events continue to happen time after time in colleges and schools - there should be found a same reasons for it. Perhaps they must start something similar with the antytobacco actions in Europe, when the injured anathomy of chainsmokers was shown with the shocking particularies. Perhaps they have to make the posters with the words like: If you wont stop persecute your neighbor, he will shout youand your friends today, after lunch.

It is looking like the killer, though an immigrant from Korea, may have adopted some ideas from Islam. On the inside of his left arm he had written in red, "Ismail Ax". These words relate to the Muslim belief that Abraham was to kill Ishmael with an axe and that Abraham destroyed idols with an axe. Probably he was not connected with any formal sort of terrorism but my guess is that he was a seriously deluded piece of sh!t.

Here is the picture of the guy that held the door while the students jumped out the window. The last two guys to jump out the window saw him get shot. He was from Romania.
http://www.esm.vt.edu/php/person.php?id=10023

The kid was twisted... A loner that hated the "rich kids", he stalked women, his 'Creative Writing' instructor thought he was off his rocker because of the violent themes in his writings; she talked to the cops and asked him to seek counceling for depression, anger, etc.
His rommates were just on TV, said he wasn't very well developed socially. No friends, no visitors, had a Finked-up My-Space profile. The boy had issues, or maybe a subscription.
In one classroom, a few guys held a table ocross the door so the nut-case couldn't get in.
Gun control? Where I live, you have to jump through hoops of fire to get a pistol permit. License to carry is even harder. Have to be locked in the house. A Firearms Identification Card is needed for a BB-gun. Slingshots and dart guns (the blow-gun type) are illegal. Being a member of the NRA gets me insurance so I can use the range at the Boy Scout camp. I've never shot anything other than targets, cans, bottles and clay pigeons (OK, bricks at a 1/4 mile with a rifle is fun). Self protection? Louisville Slugger makes a few models and a spray bottle with Tabasco Sauce in the car.

This may not be a solution: criminals will get guns, one way or another but law-abiding citizens will not have protection!

Yeh criminals will get guns, but the people who do these shootings are not real criminals, more like loner rich kids/satanists etc...

You are missing the point on firearms and the US Constitution. The constitutional protection of the "right endowed by our Creator" is also to protect the citizens duty to keep our government from overstepping their place in case they become "tyrannical".
We are authorised to overthrow our own government. This is the way that America was set up by the first government here. They formed their country through revolution and recognised that future generations may have to do the same thing again. So, they wrote the 2nd Amendment into the Constitution to ensure that the citizens would still have guns in order to accomplish the task, just as they did.

There is no other country who has recongnised this right of the people. The US Constitution is remarkable in this.

You can not compare our gun problems with anywhere else.

Haha that's utter anachronistic bullshit. So the US government advocates terrorism does it? Some would argue the government already is tyrannical. Isn't that what democracy is for anyway?

Scotcher is right anyway. I've also never seen a handgun in my country. The truth is that if it were impossible for ordinary people to get handguns then there would be 32 more Americans alive today. You can't kill 32 people with your fists...

Besides, boys have always had some strange fascination with weapons. I think it's something in their blood. In every culture in all times boys have been playing with toy weapons, be that a wooden stick to represent a sword, or a toy bows, spears, and a little later - pistols, guns, rifles, etc. And don't blame toys manufacturers they just respond to the demand.

Yeh, sure I would love to have my own handgun, but there's not a lot you can do when they are banned.

There will always be psychos like that guy so you may as well limit the damage by banning guns. Not many people know how to build bombs, but anyone can pull a trigger.

Originally Posted by Ramil

...идея повсеместного обязательного вооружения может сработать...

Если хотите посмотреть как сработает идея, то не обязательно вооружать сразу всех и именно огнестрельным оружием. Тенденция будет понятна уже после частичного вооружения. Далее она будет только усугубляться.
Пару лет назад под новый год нас в деревне обстреляли. Сынок местной старосты нажрались и пожелали развлечься. Взял папкино ружьё и пошёл на озеро. Пуля-торпеда оказывается классно скользит по ровной снежной поверхности. Мы потом нашли пару пуль и пошли жаловаться старосте. Она после этого побежала заметать следы (собирать гильзы). И это местная "элита".

We're talking about a deeply disturbed young man with major social skill problems. It's not guns, it's not America or MTV/Disney. He was a displaced human.
If one wants to cause mayhem, they will. I'm sure everyone on these boards has the intelligence to do so, but (most ) also has the proper mind-set NOT to do so.
In keeping with the Russian theme, Molotov Cocktail... 4 quarts of vodka (drunk to empty bottles) + gallon of gasoline + old t-shirt, mix with a strong conviction = mayhem.

Let's just hope there is a kind God for the boy and his victims.

Originally Posted by capecoddah

We're talking about a deeply disturbed young man with major social skill problems. It's not guns, it's not America or MTV/Disney. He was a displaced human.

Well, maybe, but America takes lead by the number of incidents like that, for some reason. This isn't the first time, and not even the second one. There is some shooting here and there in other parts of the world (I mean just senseless shooting when someone kills just to feel better). Shooting news from the USA arrive with suspicious regularity. Why is that?

P.S. USA takes lead in the world by the percentage of gunshot murders also compared to murders commited without firearms.

We're talking about a deeply disturbed young man with major social skill problems.

All the more reason to make sure can't get his hands on a gun in the first place. If he's gonna lose the plot no matter what, you want it to happen in the least damaging way possible.

He might kill five people with a Molotov Cocktail but he probably wont kill 32, unless he's really skilled, and chances are he isn't.

No one took him out because he had a gun, if he had had a knife or a chainsaw an unarmed student would have a much better chance of being a hero and stopping him.

No one 'took him out' as you said because a law was passed forbidding the law abiding teachers and students to bring a gun to the school. So, they were sitting ducks. I, on the other hand in my state, can legally, and did, carry concealed to classes. It would have been a different outcome if the little prick had have walked into my class.

Some are saying that since the school in VA refuses to let the students protect themselves that they have assumed the liability themselves. So they therefore are liable for a law suit for failing to supply adequate protection to the students and teachers. He he he he !!!

Yep! We have a lot of bad guys in USA, so us good guys need our guns more than you Kiwis. And don't think that you will ever take away all the guns in America. The estimate is that we have 170 million guns here. The bad guys will always find a way to get them. They can't stop the illegal drug traffic and they won't be able to stop the firearm smugglers either, if it ever came to that.

Many times i have heard police here in the USA say that in their time of need or emergency that they have been assisted by the average citizen with a concealed weapon.

As a matter of fact the statistics from the USA Justice Department estimates that a gun is used in PREVENTION of a crime 2 million times every year in the USA.

The rest of the world are just going to have to face the fact that there are some bad guys living in the USA and the good guys here need to be able to kill them. Welcome to America!

Yep США is beyond help by now. I heard recently that there are as many guns there as there are wristwatches.

But still... and although this case was a no brainer, it's not going to be easy to justify shooting someone in self-defense. It's just as likely the people "defending themselves" will wind up in court as the university for not allowing them to defend themselves.

Originally Posted by DDT

As a matter of fact the statistics from the USA Justice Department estimates that a gun is used in PREVENTION of a crime 2 million times every year in the USA.

It seems you're proud of this. I think that's horrible. All these "ordinary" guys shooting on a whim. I wonder how many millions every year are killed by mistake.

Originally Posted by DDT

The rest of the world are just going to have to face the fact that there are some bad guys living in the USA and the good guys here need to be able to kill them. Welcome to America!

That's utter crap. Bad guys are living evrywhere, and not all of them have criminal records or connections. So no need to make it easy for them to get a gun.
And have you ever heard about escalating the violence?

It's the Americans who aren't complete imbeciles that I feel sorry for.

i've only been in the UK for two weeks. This is a country where you can't even carry pepper spray for personal protection or you can go to prison on the same charges as a gun crime. Any knife over 3 inches, or that locks is considered a deadly weapon and if you're caught with one its automatically assumed you had intent to use it... because why else would you have a knife other than to stab someone?

While I might not agree with the UK on all of their weapons control laws... I do feel 1000x safer here walking on the street at night than in America. Even if I was carrying a gun.

Don't get me wrong. I love guns. I bought an AK on my 18th birthday... But I don't know how necessary they are anymore in the 21st century. Why does anyone need an AK-47? I also think the excuse that if guns are outlawed, then only criminals will have guns is pretty stupid. If you can't get guns then no one will have guns. Europe/ the UK is a prime example of this. You can buy shotguns and rifles but they must be locked up in your house when not in use (for hunting or target shooting).

I guess I could go either way because I really do enjoy collecting and shooting guns, But I don't know if its worth risking getting my face blasted off because I stole somebodies parking lot.

Maybe gun control wouldn't have stopped the dude at V-tech, He could have probly just as easily made bombs, or some other ways to kill a large group of people, but he might have had a lot harder of a time doing it if he couldn't have just walked into a store and walked out with a glock.

Btw, how the hell did he kill 32 people with a f*cking glock 9 -mil??? They are such weak pieces of crap.

I wonder why don't they use metal detectors at building entrances? And where were the security guards? Maybe this is a problem. Here in Moscow we are so used to heightened security measures that we don't even notice them anymore, though metal detectors and armed guards or policemen can be seen everywhere.

Originally Posted by DDT

No one 'took him out' as you said because a law was passed forbidding the law abiding teachers and students to bring a gun to the school. So, they were sitting ducks. I, on the other hand in my state, can legally, and did, carry concealed to classes. It would have been a different outcome if the little prick had have walked into my class.

Some are saying that since the school in VA refuses to let the students protect themselves that they have assumed the liability themselves. So they therefore are liable for a law suit for failing to supply adequate protection to the students and teachers. He he he he !!!

Yep! We have a lot of bad guys in USA, so us good guys need our guns more than you Kiwis. And don't think that you will ever take away all the guns in America. The estimate is that we have 170 million guns here. The bad guys will always find a way to get them. They can't stop the illegal drug traffic and they won't be able to stop the firearm smugglers either, if it ever came to that.

Many times i have heard police here in the USA say that in their time of need or emergency that they have been assisted by the average citizen with a concealed weapon.

As a matter of fact the statistics from the USA Justice Department estimates that a gun is used in PREVENTION of a crime 2 million times every year in the USA.

The rest of the world are just going to have to face the fact that there are some bad guys living in the USA and the good guys here need to be able to kill them. Welcome to America!

Well said!

Originally Posted by charlestonian

I have several guns at home, and ADT security service. I feel safe at home but I feel less safe in public places. I carry a gun in my car but it is difficult to get to it when you are not in the car.

Hey, dude, it's paranoia if you ask me. I haven't any gun and never had and feel perfectly safe here, in Russia. )) The worst thing that had happen with me in my life was the case about 10 years ago, than I was a young stupid student, I was so drunk that fall asleep on the bench in some park and woke up without a wallet in my pocket. And you say after that that Russia is unsafe country comparing to America???

It's not a paranoia it's a custom.

And about the thread. The case is shocking and horrible of course. I think that the gun control is the only way to avoid such nightmares in future. Yes, the serious criminals always will find the way to get a gun, but the chance that a gun can appear in the hand of some crazy maniac is much less.