Thread: How do Russians and others normally switch between Latin and non-Latin keyboards?

Unfortunately, in mid-1990s we saw dramatic spread of the American standard of computers, whose keyboard has no features to support languages other than English.

But the advantage of this, it seems to me, is that if you regularly type in MORE than three languages (such as English, Russian, and Hebrew), everything is done by software-switching.

And even if you type in just two languages (such as Russian and English), using software-switching allows you to switch conventiently between a phonetic mapping (as Hanna noted on the Yamaha keyboard) and the "standard" layout. (For instance, English speakers learning Russian with the intent of studying/working in Russia should really try to become accustomed to the "йцуке" layout, and Russians learning English should get used to the QWERTY layout. But in both cases, using a phonetically-mapped keyboard can be much easier at first!)

By the way, is there a common name for the standard Russian arrangement, analogous to QWERTY? I always mentally think of it as the "ФЫВА layout" -- because when I learned touch-typing in English as a kid, the teacher drilled it into my head to think of ASDF as the "home keys" for the left hand.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

But the advantage of this, it seems to me, is that if you regularly type in MORE than three languages (such as English, Russian, and Hebrew), everything is done by software-switching.

The switching is ALWAYS software. On Yamaha, on Soviet computers the switching mechanism was software based. It is just that the keyboard had special keys for switching layout and more alphabetic keys. Now the US standard considers that switching is not necessary. You have keys for scroll lock, for context menu, for main menu, for sleep and wake up etc etc - but not for layout switching.

Originally Posted by Anixx

Now the US standard considers that switching is not necessary. You have keys for scroll lock, for context menu, for main menu, for sleep and wake up etc etc - but not for layout switching.

Is there other language beside American

Originally Posted by Anixx

The switching is ALWAYS software. On Yamaha, on Soviet computers the switching mechanism was software based. It is just that the keyboard had special keys for switching layout and more alphabetic keys. Now the US standard considers that switching is not necessary. You have keys for scroll lock, for context menu, for main menu, for sleep and wake up etc etc - but not for layout switching.

It sounds like the sort of thing to start an online petition for! Imagine how many people would sign up. Just for them to add one or two more vertical lines of keys to the standard keyboard. For things like language switching and a few extra letters that have to be hidden away and can only be reached with irritating key combinationa.

I mean, it is certainly in the interest of most people in Europe, everyone in the ex USSR area, and probably Asians too!
Unbelievable with the Kazakh letters on the numpad!!! Some keyboards don't even have a numpad, so I wonder what they do then....... Like on an Ipad or something...

The placement of ё on the Russian is weird too, I had practically never had any reason to use that button when typing on an British keyboard, it's hard to use when touch typing. Can't even recall what's on it, but nothing you use regularly. I guess most Russians don't use it, but use e instead. But I use it.

For some strange reason the American and British keyboards are different, and that is another frustration. On an unfamilar PC you don't realise you are in American mode until you try to get a non alphabetic character, many of which are in a different location than on the British keyboard. I once worked for a company where the keyboard was automatically reset to American English with nothing else available, every time you rebooted.... It drove people mental.

I was fascinated by the "Dvorak" English keyboard and tried to learn typing on it a few years ago. But it was too hard and I gave up. The idea is that they placed the keys in the most logical and convenient position for minimum hand movement when typing. It is more comforatable and you can supposedly type faster. But it was too hard to re-learn the positions!

I DID memorise the position of all Russian keys though, since I wanted to be able to type Russian on any keyboard without messing around with stickers. So I can kind of touch type in Russian.......

It just sounds like quite a lot to ask from Russian pensioners and other computer users who are not familiar with English OR computers... that they should switch languages, etc... When people like my sister who is trilingual and well educated finds it confusing and challenging. She just wrote me a letter where all the Swedish letters were substituted with the closest looking English letter. It's an absolute pain in the neck to read, and I have showed her many times how to get Swedish letters on an English PC - but it's too hard apparently.

Originally Posted by Anixx

Yamaha was the most widespread personal computer in the USSR in the mid-80s. It was everywhere: in the schools, in youth creativity centers, in young pioneer houses etc. I think you could not buy it for home at the time or it was too expensive (like a half of a car). There were less expensive Soviet-made computers for home use which were more affordable.

I started programming at 8 years (2nd grade) at a programming group at creativity center. The group was free as anything in the USSR. Besides Yamahas there were also Toshibas there, and other groups were equipped with Soviet computers. My school was also equipped with Yamahas but the informatics subject only started from 6th grade (although as the teacher was informed that I attended a group, she allowed me to program and play games after lessons).

It was a Soviet standard. All computers, both imported and domestically produced were required to follow it.
The IBM PC-compatible computers that emerged in mid-1990s did not respect any Soviet standards.

Very interesting to read! Do you work in the IT industry today? You sure started very early for someone who went to school in the 80s! The Soviet youth programs are very impressive and I hope much it has survived! I did not know that you had Japanese computers back then, but I remember speaking with a Bulgarian guy who told me that Bulgaria supplied computers to much of Eastern Europe - this guy was an IT GENIUS. I was dating him, and sadly was not much attracted to him, but he had a brain to kill for. Back then, I visited Leningrad and since shops were not computerised in any form at all, I got the impression that the USSR was behind in computing. Perhaps only in places like shops though, not in universities, military etc.

Originally Posted by Hanna

It just sounds like quite a lot to ask from Russian pensioners and other computer users who are not familiar with English OR computers...

Guess the situation lacks symmetry. First, Russian symbols, though look similar to Latin alphabet and are partially based on it, differ from English for the most part. You may use transliteration, of course, but to type in Russian you must use a Russian layout.
Second, people in UK/US/CA/AU/EU/wherever may not bother lerning cyrillic writing, but people in Russia can and will write and read Latin characters. If someone had't got foreign laguage lessons in early elementary school, they are going to learn it all anyway in math classes, like in 4th grade. Yeah, we don't name variables and X's in cyrillic.
Foreign words and Latin characters are used everywhere, even just for the cool look of it, so you may very well say there little if any users in Russia who are not familiar with characters other than cyrillic. Even past the age of retirement. Hell, the MP3player I got wo weeks ago is by EXPLAY, and as I have come to know, that's actually a Russian company.