Thread: Belarus!

"Belorussian station" is a good movie with some good actors in it. But as stated above, it's not about Belarus. And I wouldnt call it a war movie per se.

Anyway, "Come and See" is a much better film, in my opinion. But definitely not for the sensitive. Some scenes are very visceral.

Marc Chagall was ethnically Jewish (you can see predominance of Jewish themes and motiffs in his work); artistically he's a Russian-French artist. His artistic development is definitely tied to Paris.

Originally Posted by Johanna

If you were asked to give an example of something that is typically Belarussian, then what would you say?

This is something along my line of work. I dont know much about Belarus, but it's history is similar to Ukraine in a sense that the area was partitioned between different empires in different times. There's no "high culture" that would define a national identity. Reference is always either to folk culture or to nationalist discourse of 19th century and on. Given the mix of ethnicities and cultural influences, something being "typical" is extremely problematic. Plus, place of birth in such a place is no proof of ethnicity. This is further complicated by Soviet folk kitsch especially surrounding the brotherhood of the three Slavic peoples.

For all historically similar areas, constructing a national mythos can lead to ridiculous claims (my favorite example is that of some particularly nationalistic Ukrainian scholars here claiming that Gogol is a Ukrainian writer), although understandably this process of construction is necessary (this is true not only in Belarus or Ukraine, but, for ex., in former Yugoslavia). Except that European nations went through this process in the 19th century. How do you construct a unified (monolithic) and distinct national identity in such a place? What would be "typical" in this case?

That's exactly my statement. I wrote about Russian or Ukrainian province.

Basil77, я понял ваш пост, с переводом у меня нет особых проблем, просто хотелось добавить пару слов. Вообще вопрос политики заслуживает отдельной темы, в завершение, мне хочется сказать пару слов: Все относительно и если говорить про российские честные выборы, там тоже не все так просто (ИМХО).

Vitebsk has a music festival in the summer, and a castle. A friend of mine went to that music festival a few years ago and really enjoyed it. Has anyone else been there? I think it's a festival of Eastern European music.

I think Vitebsk may be one of the medieval towns that I have heard about, in Belarus. I like well-preserved medieval towns, that's why I remember it.

Это фестиваль называется "Славянский Базар" Как вы сказали, это фестиваль восточно-европейской (славянской) музыки. К сожалению я там не был, смотрел пару раз по телевизору.

Если вас интересуют замки (castle), то советую обратить внимание на "Мирский" и "Несвижский" замки, особенно на первый, это одни из самых значительных памятников средневековья, которые сохранились.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_Castle_Complex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nesvizh_Castle

alex, who are your famous writers?

На счет моих любимых писателей, мне сложно ответить, в данный момент Raymond Murphy (Essential Grammar in Use). А если говорить про самых знаменитых писателей Беларуси то это Якуб Колас и Янка Купала.

The most valuable asset of Belorussia was its legendary soviet times folk or pop (not sure of the appropriate term) group - Pesniary. This is one of their songs of that era in a not so perfect sound quality, by today’s standards, but nonetheless so dear to many Russians and Byelorussians who remember the time.http://www.mp3-slovo.ru/mz/via/Pesni...eksandrina.mp3
They say there was an American tour they made in the 70s, which was a great success. It’s hard to say was it mainly Russian emigrants or general American audience that liked the band and was there any success at all and not just a propaganda bubble. Did anyone by any chance hear of the band then or any time later on? And, btw, about the song, what would you say of it, honestly though? Keep in mind, it’s more than 30 years old and it is in Byelorussian, something about love.

Originally Posted by alexB

The most valuable asset of Belorussia was its legendary soviet times folk or pop (not sure of the appropriate term) group - Pesniary. This is one of their songs of that era in a not so perfect sound quality, by today’s standards, but nonetheless so dear to many Russians and Byelorussians who remember the time.http://www.mp3-slovo.ru/mz/via/Pesni...eksandrina.mp3
They say there was an American tour they made in the 70s, which was a great success. It’s hard to say was it mainly Russian emigrants or general American audience that liked the band and was there any success at all and not just a propaganda bubble. Did anyone by any chance hear of the band then or any time later on? And, btw, about the song, what would you say of it, honestly though? Keep in mind, it’s more than 30 years old and it is in Byelorussian, something about love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv1oD6SzZW4

Ты мне вясною прыснiлася
(Ю. Семяняка - М. Шушкевiч)

Летняя ночка купальная
Яснай растаяла знiчкаю.
Падаюць зоры свiтальныя
Ў чыстыя воды крынiчныя.
Ой ты, дзяўчыначка мiлая,
Як жа ты свет упрыгожыла.
Ластаўка ты, сiзакрылая
Лёгкi мой сон растрывожыла.

Ты мне вясною прыснiлася
Неразгаданымi чарамi,
Сэрца парыўна забiлася
Лёгкiмi крыламi-марамi.
Пэўна цябе, ненаглядная,
Стрэў я часiнаю ўдалаю.
Ты ж мая доля спагадная
I не шкадую нямала я.
_______________________________

http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product ... 4&genreid= (Before "Pesniary" they were "Lyavony")
http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product ... 3&genreid=
http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product ... 3&genreid=


http://www.russiandvd.com/store/album_a ... Fnumber=02

Ой рана на Йвана, Ой рана на Йвана,
Проць Івана(?) ночка мала. Ой рана на Йвана.

Ой рана на Йвана, Ой рана на Йвана,
Дзе Купала начавала? Ой рана на Йвана.

Ой рана на Йвана, Ой рана на Йвана,
Начавала ў чыстым полі. Ой рана на Йвана.

Ой рана на Йвана, Ой рана на Йвана,
Чым Купала вячэрала? Ой рана на Йвана.

Ой рана на Йвана, Ой рана на Йвана,
Вячэрала белым сырам. Ой рана на Йвана.

Ой рана на Йвана, Ой рана на Йвана,
Чым Купала запівала? Ой рана на Йвана.

Ой рана на Йвана, Ой рана на Йвана,
Запівала варэніцай. Ой рана на Йвана.
________________________


http://www.russiandvd.com/store/album_a ... Fnumber=08

Скрыпяць мае лапці
(Беларуская народная песня)

Скрыпяць мае лапці, як іду да цебе.
А я каля цебе думаю што ў небе.
- Скажы, Ганулька, а ты праўду мне -
А ці любіш мяне, а ці не?
- Скажы, Ганулька, а ты праўду мне -
А ці любіш мяне, а ці не?
Паслухай, Ганулька, а што людзі кажуць:
Нашага кахання нічым не развяжуць.
Ніколі нас не змогуць сілаю,
Бо мы будзем жыці з мілаю.
Ніколі нас не змогуць сілаю,
Бо мы будзем жыці з мілаю.
Паслухай, Ганулька, што сава спявае.
Пэўна яна наша ўсё гора знае.
Скажы, Ганулька, а ты праўду мне -
А ці любіш мяне, а ці не?
Скажы, Ганулька, а ты праўду мне -
А ці любіш мяне, а ці не?
________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgOuGnAVRMg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-TQKVkNioI
http://www.russiandvd.com/store/album_a ... Fnumber=18

Касiў Ясь канюшiну
(белорусская народная песня)

Касiў Ясь канюшiну, (3 р.)
Паглядаў на дзяўчыну.
А дзяўчына жыта жала,
Ды на Яся паглядала: -
Цi ты Ясь, цi ты не, (3 р.)
Спадабаўся ты мне...
Кiнуў Яська касиць, (3 р.)
Пачаў мамку прасiць: -
Люба мамка мая, Ажанi ж ты мяне! -
Дык бяры ж Станiславу, (3 р.)
Ка сядзела на ўсю лаву. -
Станiславу не хачу, (3 р.)
Бо на лаву не ўсажу! -
Дык бяры ж ты Янину, (3 р.)
Працявiтую дзяўчыну.
Касiў Ясь канюшiну, (3 р.)
Паглядаў на дзяўчыну.
________________________________

Originally Posted by Basil77

If you check my thread with photos about a trip to Belorussia, you can find several photos of Vitebsk there, including the picture of the stage where the festival takes place. I also mentioned there that although Vitebsk is rather ancient city (it was founded more than a thousand ago), it was almost completely razed during WWII. So most medieval buildings were completely lost. Some were restored though.

Yes I remember the thread about your hols to Ukraine and Belarus.
It was very interesting. I had forgotten the details though but I was really impressed that you had taken photos and posted them here!

We should start more photo threads!
That was a great one and also the one about Metros in Russia and elsewere.

I might try taking some pics myself next time I go for a walk in my neighbourhood in case anyone is interested in everyday life in London.

I'd love to see more pics of Orthodox churches! (They just look so chic and interesting compared with "regular" churches.... )

Another cool thing in Russia that I remember form visiting there ages ago is that there are lots of really cool outdoor lightning; the lightning is a bit like art in some places (funny what impresses and sticks in the mind of kid/teenager -- I also remember that there were plenty of super-impressive playgrounds, almost like a mini tivoli... ) On the other hand I hardly remember anything from the visit to the Hermitage..

What else....? something that is unique to Russia/Ukraine/Belarus..? Can you think of anything?

is this real: Belarus declares Rammstein an enemy of the state??

I think Rammstein considers itself the enemy of all states, so well done them; 1 done, 199 to go....

Personally I am not a big fan of Rammstein's performances and I can see that some of it might be percieved as offensive.

Belarus is not the only country banning certain bands from performing in the way they want, or force them to change their lyrics to perform in public.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Касiў Ясь канюшiну
(белорусская народная песня)

Слушать тут с 5-ой минуты клипа
This song sonds on 5-th minute of the cartoon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlvecQb9OSA

Originally Posted by Hanna

But from what everyone is saying, it seems that Belarus is almost the same as Russia with no important differences at all? Perhaps the two countries might unite in the future? What do you think?

Never. This is not useful for Lukashenko and this is not useful for Belorussian people. I think, that Belarus must become a member of European Union in future, after it will be ended with Lukashenko dictatorship here.

Never. This is not useful for Lukashenko and this is not useful for Belorussian people. I think, that Belarus must become a member of European Union in future, after it will be ended with Lukashenko dictatorship here.

You do understand that this is even less realistic, do you?

Originally Posted by Waterlaz

You do understand that this is even less realistic, do you?

I understand that now it isn't realistic at all because of Lukashenko politics, but he won't be the President forever. Belarus is a European contry and I believe that one day we will got a President who will understand it and will put the country on the right way. Maybe not in the nearest 20 years, but one day...

Btw, Belarus GDP in 2009 was $48,973 bln. Almost half of it from resale 'special-priced-for-ally' (i.e. very cheap) Russian oil&gas to Europe. Do you think if Belarus will say 'good bye' to Russia and embrace the EU she will find such a халява anywhere else? EU does not need another whining bankrupt state like Greece.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Do you think if Belarus will say 'good bye' to Russia and embrace the EU she will find such a халява anywhere else?

I've heard that Russia don't want to sale gas and oil to Belarus so cheap anymore. So, халява is over already, and now we can go to Europe to try to find another халява. By the way, Lukashenko has already found a new source of халява in Venezuela.

Originally Posted by Basil77

EU does not need another whining bankrupt state like Greece.

This is arguably, because if EU doesn't need Belarus, why they included it in Eastern partnership programme?

Originally Posted by Cute Shark

I've heard that Russia don't want to sale gas and oil to Belarus so cheap anymore. So, халява is over already, and now we can go to Europe to try to find another халява. By the way, Lukashenko has already found a new source of халява in Venezuela.

Russia doesn't mind to sale cheap gas and oil to Bealrus for it's inner needs. Russian goverment just wants to keep the profit from sales to EU, but Lukashenko made gas/oil resale the main sourse of Bealrus' budget revenues. As for EU or Venezuela 'халява'... that's just rediculous.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Russia doesn't mind to sale cheap gas and oil to Bealrus for it's inner needs. Russian goverment just wants to keep the profit from sales to EU, but Lukashenko made gas/oil resale the main sourse of Bealrus' budget revenues.

I've never heard anything about this resale. Are you sure, that this is not a fantasy of Russian government?

Originally Posted by Basil77

As for EU or Venezuela 'халява'... that's just rediculous.

Why? Even now Europe is ready to make steps towards better relationships with Belarus, I'm sure that if it were not for Lukashenko, Europe would do much more, to gain influence on Belarussian government. They would help us in some ways.
And the President of Venezuela now is even closer friend of Lukashenko than Medvedev. And Venezuela has much oil, their oil is also cheap.

Originally Posted by Cute Shark

I've never heard anything about this resale. Are you sure, that this is not a fantasy of Russian government?

This information can be found elsewere, this is from one of the first links I get from Google after typing "Belarus gas oil resale":
Under the terms of the contract, Belarus did not pay customs duty on oil imported from Russia. Minsk did not use all of these oil imports domestically, however, sending much of it on to Europe and keeping the customs receipts, despite participating in a customs union with Russia. The profits from reselling Russian oil have long been an important source of hard currency for the authoritarian government of President Aleksandr Lukashenko, making up around a third of Belarus's export revenue.
In 2001, Belarus unilaterally canceled a contract that mandated the sharing of these revenues, leading to substantial losses for Russian pipeline monopoly Transneft and the Russian state budget. Now, Transneft is demanding that Belarus pay full import duties for the portion of Russian oil that it resells on the European market, a demand that could cost Belarus as much as $5 billion per year.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...bors?page=full
This sourse says the amount of this resale is about a third of Belarus's export revenue, but some others says it's more than a half. Belarus also built two very modern oil refinery plants in Mozyr and Novopolotsk wich produce high-quality fuel from Russian oil for export sale to EU.

Originally Posted by Basil77

As for EU or Venezuela 'халява'... that's just rediculous.

Why? Even now Europe is ready to make steps towards better relationships with Belarus, I'm sure that if it were not for Lukashenko, Europe would do much more, to gain influence on Belarussian government. They would help us in some ways.
And the President of Venezuela now is even closer friend of Lukashenko than Medvedev. And Venezuela has much oil, their oil is also cheap.

"Better relationships" doesn't mean "халява". And I think the main EU economics like Germany and France are already having a big pain-in-the-@ss with Greece, Portugal and partially Spain. This caused a big rise of Euroskepticism in these (donator) countries. I strongly doubt that they need another country which wants to be "helped in some ways". As for Venezuela, haven't you looked at the Globe, friend? It's on the opposite side! Too far away to become a reasonable sourse for cheap oil&gas for further EU resale. All these Russian&Belorussian dances around Chaves&Venezuela are mostly just PR. By the way, if I sound a bit anti-belorussian, it's not so at all. I love Belorussia. But we should be realistic, aren't we?

Originally Posted by Basil77

As for Venezuela, haven't you looked at the Globe, friend? It's on the opposite side! Too far away to become a reasonable sourse for cheap oil&gas for further EU resale.

I know geography pretty well, thank you. I don't know how, it's not my business, but the first batch of oil was already delivered to Belarus. Maybe oil in Venezuela is so cheap, that it remain cheap even with it's delivery?

Originally Posted by Basil77

And I think the main EU economics like Germany and France are already having a big pain-in-the-@ss with Greece, Portugal and partially Spain. This caused a big rise of Euroskepticism in these (donator) countries. I strongly doubt that they need another country which wants to be "helped in some ways".

And what's about Russia? Do you really think that Russian government sale oil and gas cheap to Belarus исключительно по доброте душевной and because we are best friends forever? This can't be called "халява" also. Russia needs something from Belarus in political sphere and EU may need it too. And that is the reason for me to think that they will help us if we become independent from Russia with it's gas and oil, которыми российские власти вертят перед носом белорусских политиков, как сосиской перед котом.

Originally Posted by Cute Shark

I don't know how, it's not my business, but the first batch of oil was already delivered to Belarus. Maybe oil in Venezuela is so cheap, that it remain cheap even with it's delivery?

Ерунда это всё. Тут речь не может идти об объёмах, стоящих внимания. Чисто политический ход.

And what's about Russia? Do you really think that Russian government sale oil and gas cheap to Belarus исключительно по доброте душевной and because we are best friends forever? Russia needs something from Belarus in political sphere and EU may need it too. And that is the reason for me to think that they will help us if we become independent from Russia with it's gas and oil, которыми российские власти вертят перед носом белорусских политиков, как сосиской перед котом.

Я частично согласен. Вся эта ерунда с разными ценами для "наших" и "ненаших" изначально была полнейшей глупостью. Норвегия вон продаёт газ всем без исключения по $400 c гаком за 1000 кубов и никто её не обвиняет, что она использует свои энергоресурсы в политических целях. Надо было изначально устанавливать для всех стран СНГ единую формулу расчёта цены с Европой, а все эти скидки выделять как адресную помощь или беспроцентные долгосрочные кредиты с последующим списанием. Так было бы гораздо честнее и без обид. США помогают своим сателлитам суммами на порядок меньше, но умеют продать это как сверхблагодеяние. Наши же власти сами себя посадили в лужу с этими скидками на газ и нефть, и теперь не знают, как из неё выбраться.

Originally Posted by Basil77

"Better relationships" doesn't mean "халява".

No, it doesn't. However, among other things, the "халява" usually contributes to the corruption. Think about it this way: Belarus occupies 207,600 sq km with population of less than 10 million (less than Moscow alone). Statistically speaking, Belorussians have so much unused land that they can install several wind turbines per person (figuratively speaking) and start exporting energy rather than importing it. The very same "халява" seems to support the present corrupted Belorussian government and maintains the energy status quo.