Thread: 150+ Chechnya photos

You probably confuse it with fascism which is based on humiliating other nations. Really, nationalism is far from that.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

Nationalism is a method, or so to say, basic rule of creating and upholding the state. Nothing more. It cannot be used to manipulate anything or anyone.

Than nationalism means "nation" I agree. But than it means "nationality" it's exactly that scotcher told.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

You probably confuse it with fascism which is based on humiliating other nations. Really, nationalism is far from that.

I am not confusing anything with anything buddy, I know exactly what I mean by nationalism, but since smarter people than us have been filling entire books arguing for or against this or that definition of the word for hundreds of years, I doubt that we are likely to make more progress here in a few lines on a forum, so it's probably better to agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

A non-nationalistic state has no nation.

USA counts that there is such a nation: americans. And I agree with it. Do you think that US is a nationalistic state? I don't think so. Сhauvinist, perhabs. Or Switzerland. There is no such nationality: switzers.
There are french, germans and italians living there. But they count theyself as a Swiss nation.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

Nationalism is a method...

Надо быть осторожнее с этими "...измами". У нас не одна нация в стране и все должны чувствовать гордость за неё.

As I see it, nationalism by no means implies military expansion, cult of Fuehrer, anti-Semitism, anti-Communism etc.

It implies that the nation must be the rock, from which you chisel the state. And nationality has nothing to do with that. But there's one rule, to be called a part of nation, you must: 1) love your country 2) support its interests 3) consider yourself its integral component.

And whoever doesn't share the same beliefs, shall be considered a sojourner and be deprived of certain rights an ordinary citizen has.

Do you think that US is a nationalistic state?

Nationalism helped them become independent. And yes, they are a nationalistic state. They put the nation above all.

Юрка,
Reread my post above. To be a part of nation doesn't mean to be Russian by birth.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

As I see it, nationalism by no means implies military expansion, cult of Fuehrer, anti-Semitism, anti-Communism etc.

It implies that the nation must be the rock, from which you chisel the state. And nationality has nothing to do with that. But there's one rule, to be called a part of nation, you must: 1) love your country 2) support its interests 3) consider yourself its integral component.

And whoever doesn't share the same beliefs, shall be considered a sojourner and be deprived of certain rights an ordinary citizen has.

Do you think that US is a nationalistic state?

Nationalism helped them become independent.

It seems to me you are confusing the terms. You are talking about patriotism. I disagree with Dostoevsky that it is "прибежище негодяев". But nationalism is something different.

you're right, Basil77. Patriotism is what every citizen of a nationalistic state should bear in his/her heart. But nationalism is the base on which such a state stands.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

As I see it, nationalism by no means implies military expansion, cult of Fuehrer, anti-Semitism, anti-Communism etc.

I don't agree. Who "THEM" happens to be may be fluid, but nationalism is always about "THEM", as opposed to "US". That is its nature. That contrasts with patriotism, which is simply about "US", and is not unhealthy, though sadly the two terms tend to get muddled up, especially in the minds of nationalists.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

It implies that the nation must be the rock, from which you chisel the state. And nationality has nothing to do with that. But there's one rule, to be called a part of nation, you must: 1) love your country 2) support its interests 3) consider yourself its integral component.

And what if you believe that upholding those three points requires you to completely oppose the actions and interests of the current government?

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

And whoever doesn't share the same beliefs, shall be considered a sojourner and be deprived of certain rights an ordinary citizen has.

You're getting very close to illustrating exactly why nationalism is unhealthy.

Carry on, I have to get back to work

but nationalism is always about "THEM", as opposed to "US". That is its nature.

Yes, England was "THEY" and the States were "WE".

And what if you believe that upholding those three points requires you to completely oppose the actions and interests of the current government?

That's left for you to decide.

You're getting very close to illustrating exactly why nationalism is unhealthy.

Yes, France is VERY healthy now.

Well, let's put an end to such a pointless discussion. Me have to get back to work too

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

Reread my post above. To be a part of nation doesn't mean to be Russian by birth.

Не надо всех загонять в одну нацию. И не надо говорить о государствообразующей (основной) нации. Это не интеллигентно и не продуктивно.

Originally Posted by scotcher

But either way... so what? The point still stands. Even if he did hate absolutely everything about Russia, that has nothing whatsoever to do with his 'right' to learn the Russian language or contribute to a Russian language internet forum.

I see you haven't been to the forum that frequent lately, charlestonian is an ex-Russian turned American (and a proud one too) that speaks Russian fluently. He is a great contributer for us Russian learners to understand the language.

They're simply asking if he hates Russia so (perfectly legal) why does he help the hapless foreigners learn the language?

My definition of Nationalism is you saying that your Nation is better than any other Nation.
Patriotism is you saying that you will die for your country. There is a fine line between the two, you can't have Nationalism without Patriotism, but you can have Patriotism without Nationalism.

Originally Posted by DDT

Originally Posted by Siriusly

The people who only truly understand war are regrettably never included in such lively discussions as we are having. Oh yeah...that's right...they are dead!!

Interesting point.......but you don't actually have to be dead to understand war.

I think you should try it. Then tell the forum what you think!

Originally Posted by Siriusly

Originally Posted by DDT

Originally Posted by Siriusly

The people who only truly understand war are regrettably never included in such lively discussions as we are having. Oh yeah...that's right...they are dead!!

Interesting point.......but you don't actually have to be dead to understand war.

I think you should try it. Then tell the forum what you think!

Blah, blah, blah! Some people actually like war. Who gives you the right to try to ruin things for them? Hmmm?

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

My definition of Nationalism is you saying that your Nation is better than any other Nation.
Patriotism is you saying that you will die for your country. There is a fine line between the two, you can't have Nationalism without Patriotism, but you can have Patriotism without Nationalism.

Absolutely agreed.

Originally Posted by Basil77

His Russian is perfect.

Не преувеличивай...

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

My definition of Nationalism is you saying that your Nation is better than any other Nation.

Kalinka, you are right but... Unfortunately, there is another definition of Nationalism. That's why people don't understand each other sometimes. Never been to Norway but I think we could find the "second Nationalism" there, too. And in the other West countries as well...
Your opinion?

«ГРАМОТА.РУ»: Словари русского языка

Толково-словообразовательный
НАЦИОНАЛИЗМ м.
1. Идеология и политика, основа которых - идеи национальной исключительности и национального превосходства, трактовка нации как высшей формы общества. // Возведение в ранг государственной политики эгоизма какой-л. нации.
2. Национальное самосознание, которое в определенных социально-исторических условиях - в условиях национального угнетения - служит делу национального раскрепощения и национальной независимости.

[/quote] Blah, blah, blah! Some people actually like war. Who gives you the right to try to ruin things for them? Hmmm?[/quote]

Oh, I don't want to ruin it for them. On the contrary, I enourage them to do it, up front and personal. Any rooski needing a bus ticket to Chechnya, just drop me a line, I'll be glad to oblige.

Wow....What have I started ?????

And, KV, thanks for:

"I see you haven't been to the forum that frequent lately, charlestonian is an ex-Russian turned American (and a proud one too) that speaks Russian fluently. He is a great contributer for us Russian learners to understand the language. "

You are welcome!