You probably confuse it with fascism which is based on humiliating other nations. Really, nationalism is far from that.
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You probably confuse it with fascism which is based on humiliating other nations. Really, nationalism is far from that.
Than nationalism means "nation" I agree. But than it means "nationality" it's exactly that scotcher told.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
I am not confusing anything with anything buddy, I know exactly what I mean by nationalism, but since smarter people than us have been filling entire books arguing for or against this or that definition of the word for hundreds of years, I doubt that we are likely to make more progress here in a few lines on a forum, so it's probably better to agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
USA counts that there is such a nation: americans. And I agree with it. Do you think that US is a nationalistic state? I don't think so. Сhauvinist, perhabs. :) Or Switzerland. There is no such nationality: switzers. :?: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
There are french, germans and italians living there. But they count theyself as a Swiss nation.
Надо быть осторожнее с этими "...измами". У нас не одна нация в стране и все должны чувствовать гордость за неё.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
As I see it, nationalism by no means implies military expansion, cult of Fuehrer, anti-Semitism, anti-Communism etc.
It implies that the nation must be the rock, from which you chisel the state. And nationality has nothing to do with that. But there's one rule, to be called a part of nation, you must: 1) love your country 2) support its interests 3) consider yourself its integral component.
And whoever doesn't share the same beliefs, shall be considered a sojourner and be deprived of certain rights an ordinary citizen has.
Nationalism helped them become independent. And yes, they are a nationalistic state. They put the nation above all.Quote:
Do you think that US is a nationalistic state?
Юрка,
Reread my post above. To be a part of nation doesn't mean to be Russian by birth.
It seems to me you are confusing the terms. You are talking about patriotism. I disagree with Dostoevsky that it is "прибежище негодяев". But nationalism is something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
you're right, Basil77. Patriotism is what every citizen of a nationalistic state should bear in his/her heart. But nationalism is the base on which such a state stands.
I don't agree. Who "THEM" happens to be may be fluid, but nationalism is always about "THEM", as opposed to "US". That is its nature. That contrasts with patriotism, which is simply about "US", and is not unhealthy, though sadly the two terms tend to get muddled up, especially in the minds of nationalists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
And what if you believe that upholding those three points requires you to completely oppose the actions and interests of the current government?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
You're getting very close to illustrating exactly why nationalism is unhealthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
Carry on, I have to get back to work :)
Yes, England was "THEY" and the States were "WE".Quote:
but nationalism is always about "THEM", as opposed to "US". That is its nature.
That's left for you to decide.Quote:
And what if you believe that upholding those three points requires you to completely oppose the actions and interests of the current government?
Yes, France is VERY healthy now.Quote:
You're getting very close to illustrating exactly why nationalism is unhealthy.
Well, let's put an end to such a pointless discussion. Me have to get back to work too :)
Не надо всех загонять в одну нацию. И не надо говорить о государствообразующей (основной) нации. Это не интеллигентно и не продуктивно.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
I see you haven't been to the forum that frequent lately, charlestonian is an ex-Russian turned American (and a proud one too) that speaks Russian fluently. He is a great contributer for us Russian learners to understand the language.Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
They're simply asking if he hates Russia so (perfectly legal) why does he help the hapless foreigners learn the language? :wink:
My definition of Nationalism is you saying that your Nation is better than any other Nation.
Patriotism is you saying that you will die for your country. There is a fine line between the two, you can't have Nationalism without Patriotism, but you can have Patriotism without Nationalism.
I think you should try it. Then tell the forum what you think!Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
Blah, blah, blah! Some people actually like war. Who gives you the right to try to ruin things for them? Hmmm?Quote:
Originally Posted by Siriusly
Absolutely agreed. http://smiles2k.net/smiles/aiwan_smiles/yes.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
Не преувеличивай...Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
Kalinka, you are right but... Unfortunately, there is another definition of Nationalism. That's why people don't understand each other sometimes. Never been to Norway but I think we could find the "second Nationalism" there, too. And in the other West countries as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
Your opinion?
«ГРАМОТА.РУ»: Словари русского языка
Толково-словообразовательный
НАЦИОНАЛИЗМ м.
1. Идеология и политика, основа которых - идеи национальной исключительности и национального превосходства, трактовка нации как высшей формы общества. // Возведение в ранг государственной политики эгоизма какой-л. нации.
2. Национальное самосознание, которое в определенных социально-исторических условиях - в условиях национального угнетения - служит делу национального раскрепощения и национальной независимости.
[/quote] Blah, blah, blah! Some people actually like war. Who gives you the right to try to ruin things for them? Hmmm?[/quote]
Oh, I don't want to ruin it for them. On the contrary, I enourage them to do it, up front and personal. Any rooski needing a bus ticket to Chechnya, just drop me a line, I'll be glad to oblige.
Wow....What have I started :o :o :o :o :o :o ?????
And, KV, thanks for:
"I see you haven't been to the forum that frequent lately, charlestonian is an ex-Russian turned American (and a proud one too) that speaks Russian fluently. He is a great contributer for us Russian learners to understand the language. "
You are welcome! :thumbs:
So are unemployed people not part of the nation? They may love their country but the don't support its interests and couldn't be considered an integral component... Yet they have the same rights as everyone else... :evil:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
Errr... you got it wrong, it seems. By supporting your state's interests I mean... when you want to see your country grow and prosper in every aspect, No way making a significant contribution to its economy.Code:but the don't support its interests and couldn't be considered an integral component...
Я не преувеличиваю. Если ты имеешь ввиду его подпись, то, имхо, это он просто так стебётся.Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Ты, наверное, не обращаешь внимания на то, какие он иногда дает "советы" относительно русского языка...Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
Например http://masterrussian.net/mforum/viewtop ... 630#142630
("Я спросил у Миши передать мне ручку" is ok in his opinion)
И другие случаи были не лучше.
[quote=Оля][quote=Basil77][quote="Оля":1a4xx4vl][quote=Basil77]His Russian is perfect.[/quote]
Не преувеличивай...[/quote]
Я не преувеличиваю. Если ты имеешь ввиду его подпись, то, имхо, это он просто так стебётся.[/quote]
Ты, наверное, не обращаешь внимания на то, какие он иногда дает "советы" относительно русского языка...
Например [url="http://masterrussian.net/mforum/viewtopic.php?p=142630#142630"]http://masterrussian.net/mforum/viewtop ... 630#142630[/url]
("Я спросил у Миши передать мне ручку" is ok in his opinion)
И другие случаи были не лучше.[/quote:1a4xx4vl]
Hey, get off my case, OK? What did I do to you?
Hey, I don't understand you, так что не напрягайся.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlestonian
Ты Родину не любишь :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by charlestonian
Kakuyu takuyu Rodinu? Ya na Ukraine rodilsya...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Ты в СССР родился.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlestonian
Yeah... :( Do you have to remind me? :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Well I don't really give a sh*t whether my country grows or prospers, in fact it'd be kind of funny if we had some kind of recession, as long as it didn't affect me. Ha ha just imagine the whinging then! Finally something real to worry about. :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
Well, you're obviously neither a nationalist or patriot :wink:
You are from New Zealand, aren't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by basurero
basurero,
That's because you live not in your home country :D
I wouldn't give a sh*t either if I lived in Denmark, for example, cos I could always pack my bags and catch a first plane home :)
Чё тебе стыдно что ли?Quote:
Originally Posted by charlestonian
Ты не можешь изменить прошлого. По этому, привыкай!
Блин, я уже почти всю свою жизнью провёл в Англии. Чють свой родной язык не забыл, ну я никогда ни забыл свою родину. Там где я родился. Там где мой родственники родились.
И никакой я не "nationalist".
Я просто не думал что украинций все так быстро бросили нас :cry:
I can see that those who love their country are trying to kick butt of those who hate it again, which reminds me of something related to women (a much more interesting topic that mysteriously is rarely touched upon, considering all the testosterone). Hate is not the opposite of love. The opposite of love is indifference.
Indifference is also the opposite of hate. (depending on where to look from) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by adoc
I totally agree. Which places love and hate in the same camp, I'd say. Can we go to discussing women now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by adoc
There's no need to discuss women. I can find much more interesting things to do with a woman :)
hahahahaha yeh, it's so much more fun hassling women! :lol:
My favourite quote:
"You do well to weep as a woman, for what you could not defend as a man."
- Moors fleeing Spain.