# Forum About Russia Travel and Tourism  сколько стоит ?

## Dogboy182

i think i'm planning a trip to moscow. starting now, i have started doing research. i read alot of other posts on this forum, and i know to rent a flat its like 1000 rubles, thats not bad. its like  40 dollers. but, i know plain tickets are always fluxuating. but can somone estimate a general price for round trip? i also looked at russians 6 diffrent type of visas. they all suck. what if i want to stay there for more than a month? do i have to leave the country and get it re-newed and then coem back? or can i buy a new one in the country? what about driving. my frien alex said. you can just buy a car and drive it without anything because even if the cops pull u over u can just bribe them and keep going. how much does it cost to rent a car? and how much would i need to bribe a cop   ::   or, how could i get some sort of license? i can't be without wheels.  any thing else i need to know ? i think i forgot a bunch... just general expenses of things like hotel, or apartments, and plane tickets, subway and bus fairs. ok thanks. from a future muskovite   ::

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## drew881

you can definately be without wheels, moscow and st petersburg have two of the best metro systems in the world.  The underground stations are like museums and its dirt cheap.  SHould be similar in moscow but in petersburg a month pass for the metro was 10 bucks, unlimited usage.  Plus Russians are crazy drivers and you wouldnt have insurance.  What if you got into an accident with the tons of mafia hummers and mercedes suvs driving around, you are screwed buddy.   
As for visas, if you want to stay there longer than a month, you apply for an entry visa and then on the way out you have to apply for the exit visa.  However, if you are there longer than a month, you have to have an aids test...or at least my program in the fall is requiring it but they said it was because of visa restrictions. 
Off topic, but if when you say "сколько стоит?" make sure you have the stress on the O because стоит with soft O sound is a different word (to stand).    
Where are you finding those prices to rent a place for?? Ive only seen really expensive prices online but those were tourist type sites.  My guess is that it would be very hard to find the same price that a Russian pays for unless you have some kind of connection.

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## Dogboy182

uhmm, i think. in this forum... theres only like 4 other posts... just hafta look,i found it in like 20 seconds. and, i kinda want a car because i want to drive out to suburbs and regular neiborhoods, not just see the city. and, maybe i can join the mofia while i'm there too.   ::   so, when you aplly for a visa, is it possible to be denied? how does that work? and if u are denied, is it possible to re apply? or can u just never go to russia ?

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## JB

Geez Dogboy.......Translate this:  NO VISA GO TO JAIL. 
A good way for you to go to Russia is through a student program. They will arrange a student visa for you and guide you through the paperwork. If you want to stay past 30 days they can extend your visa. Turn on your search engine and plug in "Russian Language Programs".  Also check out AFS sites and individual American and Russian University sites.  I  will be spending all of August at Moscow State U. Living in the dorm is dirt cheap and together with the language classes it will only cost $800 for the month. Plane tickets in summer are expensive, $1200-$2000 round trip.  But that is why God invented frequent flyer miles. 
Now about that car....Aren't you like only 16?  Forget the car! The Metro, busses, taxi etc. will get you anywhere you want to go. 
Do not mess with The Man in Russia.  I've been to the police station there and it's NOT FUN!

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## Dogboy182

when the hell did i ever say i planned on going without a visa? where did you get that from?  anyways, do you already have to be enrolled in an american university to go to a russian university? and, i think in two years (then i will be 18, and thats when i plan n going) my russian will be pretty good. but. do they have classes in english? how am i supposed to go to russia and study at a university where i dont even know the language? crazy.

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## drew881

> when the hell did i ever say i planned on going without a visa? where did you get that from?  anyways, do you already have to be enrolled in an american university to go to a russian university? and, i think in two years (then i will be 18, and thats when i plan n going) my russian will be pretty good. but. do they have classes in english? how am i supposed to go to russia and study at a university where i dont even know the language? crazy.

 you wont be taking regular russian classes unless you want to (good luck) but they have classes for foreigners.  I did a summer program last summer at st petersburg state university.  The courses were taught in russian but you still understand a lot of it, they write stuff on the board, diagrams etc...there are tons of programs, probably a lot that arent even necessarily through an insitution and if you are in one of these programs it is really easy to get a visa because that institution is inviting you.

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## drew881

> Geez Dogboy.......Translate this:  NO VISA GO TO JAIL. 
>  Plane tickets in summer are expensive, $1200-$2000 round trip.  But that is why God invented frequent flyer miles. 
> and it's NOT FUN!

 yeah plane tickets are a pain.  I just had to book mine for the fall, multi destination flight because we have an orientation in helsinki.  So, nj-helsinki, with a return from petersburg....cost 900 bucks.   
Have you looked at travelocity student tickets through student universe? You can usually find flights for about 900-1000.  I got pretty lucky for mine but i have to spend a night in copenhagen on the way back...no big deal

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## Brandon8

here is the set up...right now me and dogboy are 16 years old...we dont have credit cards to get those miles

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## JB

drew,  How was the university at St. Petersburg?  I had a hard time deciding between MSU and Petersburg.  I finally opted for Moscow because I have friends there.  The plane tickets get a lot cheaper after Sept 1 (that's the end of Russian summer vacation time) But I already had schedualed my  time off of work for August.
Dogboy, when you mentioned bribing cops I got nervous. Also trying to extend a visitor's visa is your worst nightmare once you are in the country. To attend regular university classes there you must be fluent in Russian. You are tested when you arrive and placed in the appropriate level Russian language class. Check out those websites as they explain everything.  To go as a high school student is probably easier. Check out the AFS site.

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## Dogboy182

well. thats all fine and dandy but. the first time i go to russia i want to just go to moscow, like i said, and spend a few weeks. with nothing to worry about. no tight schedual, no homework to worry about, just sit back and chill in the city. see the sites, maybe познакомить with some russian ladies. u know. the works. 
after that i will look into student visas and such... but i doubt any colleges even in russia would accept me with my GPA   ::

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## JB

you have 2 years to work on your Russian and your GPA.  ::

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## Dogboy182

yes, my russian gets better everyday... my gpa HAH well ok. but i have anouther question. what about a train ride from moscow to st. pete? how much does that cost  (and sorry if i sound a little american here) but do u need any papers or anything to travel around the country in russia ? or can u just go around like u can in america ? (given i have my passport and what not).

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## drew881

I think the train ride is like 50-80 for a round trip (туда и обратно)depending on what class you want, and youll want the better class.  I did it but it was already paid for in my trip so im not completely sure.  The trip is 8 hours

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## z80

Only 8 hours? How far is Moscow from SPB?

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## Dogboy182

i'd say give or take 500 kilometers

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## z80

hell the train line must be in bad condition. Our shitty train here takes 7 hours to get 600kms. When it was new back in the 70's it only took 5 hours.

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## drew881

There are a couple stops, i took the night train so i didnt really notice any of them but one at about the middle which scared the shit out me.  Train stops, random russian being yelled over a loudspeaker outside...pause, then repeated louder. hehe, it was an interesting experience.  Then we started moving again and i went to sleep.   
ALso i think they stretch out the night train time so you can sleep a decent amount and its probably more efficient.  The way back during the day was more like 5 or 6 hours.  http://www.waytorussia.net/Transport/Ti ... sburg.html here you go...prices range from 15 or so-75 it looks like.  I think for foreigners you might pay more though.

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## Dogboy182

i would want to take the day train, so i could see everything. at night u might miss alot of cool sites... or maybe not, i've never been to russia, so i wouldn't know.

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## drew881

lots of countryside, couple cool nuclear reactor type looking plants.

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## Dogboy182

hmm have u seen russian suburbs? do they resemble american suburbs? what do russian houses look like? whats a quite "middle class" russian neiborhood like? and what's inbetween all the big citys? a whole lot of nothin ? what are your odds for survival if u plane went down quite aways from a city?

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## drew881

it appeared in the cities that almost everyone lived in huge apartments that all look the same.  Leftover soviet architecture from the 60s and 70s.  There are some smaller older ones too that appeared to be cheaper or more expensive based on location and quality.  There definately is not a suburb system like what we have with backyards for each house, fences for each property.  You would have to go pretty far outside cities to see that i guess...I went as far as the metro could take me in petersburg in almost every direction and still couldnt see anything like what we have, but there were a couple 20 story apartments at the very edge of town and then the city just kind of ended abruptly.  Its crazy... 
In the nicer areas, new developments were being constructed in both petersburg and moscow but these are still high rise buildings.  It doesnt really appear like there is a huge suburb movement that we have with houses that all look the same being constructed in blocks outside of cities.

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## z80

The large apartment blocks make servicing large amounts of people with public transport very efficient. How many “suburbs” do you see in western countries with good public transport?

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## Dogboy182

hmm interesting. i guess thats america for you.. suberbia forever. дрew... с кем ты ехал в россии ?

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## drew881

http://www.djh.dk/europe/photos/russia/sp36.jpg I stayed in the building on the left, farthest down.  Notice how they all look alike.   
heres another set of buildings http://www.djh.dk/europe/photos/russia/sp20.jpg

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## Dogboy182

drew when did you go? got any more picutres? sorry we kinda got off on the wrong foot.   ::

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## scotcher

Cost: 
How long is a piece of string? I was there just over two weeks, and including flights, visas, insurance, food and accomodation, and all the money I spent while I was there I reckon I must have spent about

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## JB

My friends wanted me to drive their car when I was in Russia. They were so amazed that a woman could drive and own a car that they wanted me to prove it.  But when I saw people driving in the wrong direction and on the sidewalks I refused to get out of the back seat. Also the potholes there are deeper and wider than the Suez Canal!  ::

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## drew881

> The large apartment blocks make servicing large amounts of people with public transport very efficient. How many “suburbs” do you see in western countries with good public transport?

 true the planning is very good, but at the cost of being an eyesore to some.  I think its pretty cool, but some would have some culture shock. 
I went last summer with my college, spent a month.  Going in august for four months to petersburg again.  I have tons of pics on my computer but they are really big and not hosted.  I can try to get some up but i no longer have photoshop.

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## B_Knotty

Just thought I would add some info about getting around Moscow.  I'm going to be there in 2 weeks, and plan to ride the metro quite often.  It is one of the best public transport systems in the world.  The stations are like museums, it is efficient, fast, and cheap.  Here are some maps you can check out.  Moscow Metro Map  Moscow City Map

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## drew881

Yeah, the moscow metro is rediculous, so many lines.  I found some cool sites on the moscow and petersburg metros with pictures of the stations, here it is 
Petersburg: http://webspace-empire.de/metroplanet/s ... allery.htm 
Moscow:http://www.metropla.net/eu/mos/pix/mos-gallery.htm could take a while to search through...they have 11 lines 
Check out both, they are really interesting.  St. Petersburg has a couple stations with Mayakovsky and Dostoevsky themes to them.

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## drew881

metro station or museum?   
hope the person doesnt mind me posting the link

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## V

> The large apartment blocks make servicing large amounts of people with public transport very efficient. How many “suburbs” do you see in western countries with good public transport?

 Swedish suburbs have good public transport. It seems American suburbs do, too, but I guess I haven't been there long enough to know for sure.

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## JB

In California public transportation is nonexistant or a joke.

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## V

California...liberal*cough*...democrat*cough*

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## JB

You'd think those liberal Democrats would get out of their SUV's long enough to vote in a decent public transport!  
The newest branch of the Metro opens by my house in July.  It will be great for going to some fun tourist spots but it doesn't go anywhere near my work.  So all of us Angelinos will have to keep guzzling gas and making smog.

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## Dogboy182

i was talking to my russian friend alex, who is from moscow, he might come with us, anyway he said that you can buy cars for like 20 dollers, and if a cop pulls you over, all you have to do is "show him your green money" and you'll be fine. anyways, what if i wanted to just go live for in indefinite amount of time ?say i wasn't sure when i wanted to leave. i think a year woud be good, so i could see it in summer and in fall. or, are the only people who can stay longer than a month russian citizens and students ?   ::

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## JB

Dogboy, I think your friend is teasing you. Forget the car.
You cannot get into Russia without a visa.  To get a visa you must have an invitation from a tour agency,a hotel, a business or a Russian resident. You send this document along with your passport to your nearest Russian Embassy (I think you would use the San Francisco office).  They issue you a visa with an entry and exit date.  You cannot get into Russia before your entry date and you have to be outta Dodge by your exit date.  While you are in Russia you must carry your passport and visa with you at all times in case you get stopped by the police (who randomly check documents at will). You also have to register at a special office within 3 days of arriving in the country or your visa is in trouble.

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## drew881

> Dogboy, I think your friend is teasing you. Forget the car.
> You cannot get into Russia without a visa.  To get a visa you must have an invitation from a tour agency,a hotel, a business or a Russian resident. You send this document along with your passport to your nearest Russian Embassy (I think you would use the San Francisco office).  They issue you a visa with an entry and exit date.  You cannot get into Russia before your entry date and you have to be outta Dodge by your exit date.  While you are in Russia you must carry your passport and visa with you at all times in case you get stopped by the police (who randomly check documents at will). You also have to register at a special office within 3 days of arriving in the country or your visa is in trouble.

 I dont know about carrying the visa and passport at all times, i went with xerox copies instead which is less risky keeping my passport and visa in my room.  When we went to moscow though, I had it in pocket because our teacher said they check there more often.

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## z80

I can't beleave the photos of the metro !!!   What a bit of art work, and there all diferent too, no chance of getting off at the wrong stop. 
Dogboy, get out of your american "i must have a car" attitued. 
Public transport during the soviet era was used by the great majority of the population in Moscow and SPB.

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## JB

drew881, I never was asked for my visa by any police in the Far East or in Moscow.  But getting checked can also depend on what you look like. As a blond female I was left alone. I'm also sure that had a lot to do with the police letting me off easy when I didn't register after I arrived in Russia. But in Moscow we saw people being checked (mostly dark haired or dark skinned males) everywhere. One day a bomb exploded in a metro station. For the next week there wasn't a dark male anywhere in public.  I also have been told by friends living in Russia that the police love to harrass teenage males.

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## Линдзи

> I dont know about carrying the visa and passport at all times, i went with xerox copies instead which is less risky keeping my passport and visa in my room.

 This _is_ a risk.  You can, theoretically, be arrested for not having your actual papers on you.

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## drew881

yeah but i would rather have that happen and present the documents later than be mugged by chance and lose my passport and visa.

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## Dogboy182

Oh My God. JB, when the hell did i EVER say that i wanted to sneak into russia and go as long as possibe without getting a visa ? i KNOW that i need one, so stop telling me that i do. and, i know that a car is not that important, judging by the comicle nature of my last post, i think it would have been pretty obvious to spot that i was just joking. anyways... so how do the cops know your a tourist? i dont plan on walking around with a huge camera. i will probly just walk around and blend in with the crowd as much as possible. i don't want alot of attention on myself. infact, i bet i;m so good, once i leave the customs or whatever, and i am on my own on the street, i bet a cop wont stop me once.   ::   anyways, thanks for the great info, and if you have anymore foto's keep posting them. they are very neat.

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## JB

Dogboy, your last post was supposed to be funny?  
I have no doubt the Russians won't figure out you're American.  ::

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## Scorpio

> i think i'm planning a trip to moscow. starting now, i have started doing research. i read alot of other posts on this forum, and i know to rent a flat its like 1000 rubles, thats not bad. its like  40 dollers.

 Renting a flat - 1000 R for a month?! Can't believe it. Real prices are much higher - starting from $100 monthly.   

> but, i know plain tickets are always fluxuating. but can somone estimate a general price for round trip? i also looked at russians 6 diffrent type of visas. they all suck. what if i want to stay there for more than a month? do i have to leave the country and get it re-newed and then coem back? or can i buy a new one in the country?

 Of cause, not: you can go to embassy and prolongate your visa...   

> what about driving. my frien alex said. you can just buy a car and drive it without anything because even if the cops pull u over u can just bribe them and keep going. how much does it cost to rent a car? and how much would i need to bribe a cop    or, how could i get some sort of license? i can't be without wheels.  any thing else i need to know ?

 If you don't plan to spend 80% of you visit in the moscow traffic jams, forget about car. Use public transport, especially metro. It's not only cheaper, but quicker.

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## Brandon8

> Oh My God. JB, when the hell did i EVER say that i wanted to sneak into russia and go as long as possibe without getting a visa ? i KNOW that i need one, so stop telling me that i do. and, i know that a car is not that important, judging by the comicle nature of my last post, i think it would have been pretty obvious to spot that i was just joking. anyways... so how do the cops know your a tourist? i dont plan on walking around with a huge camera. i will probly just walk around and blend in with the crowd as much as possible. i don't want alot of attention on myself. infact, i bet i;m so good, once i leave the customs or whatever, and i am on my own on the street, i bet a cop wont stop me once.    anyways, thanks for the great info, and if you have anymore foto's keep posting them. they are very neat.

 arent you forgetting someone there Dogboy...

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## Dogboy182

i dunno brandon? u still goin?  ::   anddd, only 100 dollers a month? in america they cost at least 800 a month for a decent one. 100 is great !... how do russians afford those ? i heard that if u make 200 rubles a month then you are cool. how do they afford that ?

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## drew881

> i dunno brandon? u still goin?   anddd, only 100 dollers a month? in america they cost at least 800 a month for a decent one. 100 is great !... how do russians afford those ? i heard that if u make 200 rubles a month then you are cool. how do they afford that ?

 200 rubles is less than 7 bucks dude.   Ive heard the avg Russian makes 100 dollars a month.

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## z80

Although the average income of Russia’s huge 150m population is only around $120 per month, official figures are deceptively low and many Russians have other undeclared sources of income.  
quote from http://www.tradepartners.gov.uk/food/ru ... view.shtml

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## drew881

true....i remember seeing some recent stats, something like 30 percent of the total economy isnt legitimate.

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## scotcher

And you have to remember also that stats covering the whole of Russia aren't really relevant when you're only talking about Moscow. It's like comparing London with the far north of Scotland, only more so.

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## B_Knotty

Apparently Moscow is one of the most expensive cities in the world to live, comparable to New York or London.  Here is an extremely useful link to find out more about travel to Russia.  Way To Russia 
You might also want to pick up the latest "Lonely Planet" travel guides for the areas you plan to visit.

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## Brandon8

uhhh....why wouldnt i be going?

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## Scorpio

> how do russians afford those ? i heard that if u make 200 rubles a month then you are cool. how do they afford that ?

 I bet you heard it loooong time ago  :P 
For these day, the (very relative) cooliness starts from 10000 R monthly. 
About "how do they afford that" - well most russian don't need to rent a flat, because have own. Also note: we are discussing *Moscow* prices, which a way different from the most of the country.

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## igorfa100

> i think i'm planning a trip to moscow. starting now, i have started doing research. i read alot of other posts on this forum, and i know to rent a flat its like 1000 rubles, thats not bad. its like  40 dollers. but, i know plain tickets are always fluxuating. but can somone estimate a general price for round trip? i also looked at russians 6 diffrent type of visas. they all suck. what if i want to stay there for more than a month? do i have to leave the country and get it re-newed and then coem back? or can i buy a new one in the country? what about driving. my frien alex said. you can just buy a car and drive it without anything because even if the cops pull u over u can just bribe them and keep going. how much does it cost to rent a car? and how much would i need to bribe a cop    or, how could i get some sort of license? i can't be without wheels.  any thing else i need to know ? i think i forgot a bunch... just general expenses of things like hotel, or apartments, and plane tickets, subway and bus fairs. ok thanks. from a future muskovite

  you could probably rent a bed in a dirty roach swarming dormitory 30 min bus ride from the nearest metro station for 1000 roubles, apartment rents in Moscow start at $350 per month for a one room shaby aptmnt, the more real prices now are $400-$500, they've gone up since last year quite a bit, plus it's very dificult to contact a landlord/lady directly most of the apartment rent deals are done thru real estate agents which means that if an ad says $350 per month you'll end up having to cough up at least $1050 up front as a downpayment, the usual practice is you pay for two months in advance plus a month's rent to the real estate agent.
 cops will rip you off of everything, they belive all foreigners to be inexhaustible sources of cash, if you really get some wheels in Russia try to do it the legal way and should you get stopped by traffic police, insist that all things be done the legal way, you may spend a coule of days going thru red tape and end up paying a modest fine or or you may get cheated out of $1000 or more, but also you could play dummy and get the cop to conclude that messing around with you is not worth the trouble, anyways the best bet would be to get a car with diplomatic plates and a flashlight, then you could just ignore the cops

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## Dogboy182

> Originally Posted by Dogboy182  how do russians afford those ? i heard that if u make 200 rubles a month then you are cool. how do they afford that ?   I bet you heard it loooong time ago  :P 
> For these day, the (very relative) cooliness starts from 10000 R monthly.

 Well november was quite awhile ago, but she didn't say dollers or rubles, she just said 200. so since she lived in russia i assumed it was rubles. anyways  so for a 2 months stay, how much money should you expect to bring ?

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## Brandon8

Matt... are you staying two months?

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## Dima

> she just said 200. so since she lived in russia i assumed it was rubles.

 No, it's definitely bucks because bucks are the Russian second currency.  
Анекдот:
Русский приезжает из Америки и говорит приятелю:
- Слушай, у них, в этой Америке, доллары совсем как наши баксы!

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## Dogboy182

i want to stay in moscow for about a month, and then go up to petersburg, and maybe vyborg for 2 weeks, so probly a month and a half. man i better start saving !

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## mike

::  This trip sounds like it is going to cost a few thousand dollars.

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## z80

I thought the idea of traveling around was to do just that. If I go some where, I usually don't put a whole lot of planing into it. You just go where ever you want.  
You want to go to vybourg? Is that because of the camera? 
Doyboy, you are really easily influenced.

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## Brandon8

haha...matt we can find the camera... ah that would be so fun

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## z80

Go and stand in front of the camera and then ring us up so we can look at you waving at us.

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## Dogboy182

well, i wanted to see a small town too, because not all of russia is just highrise apartments, but since vyborg is the only small town i have ever heard of in russia, and it reletivly close to st.petersburg, why not?

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## Dogboy182

easily influenced...   ::  i started learning russian didn't i.

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## Veedey

> i'd say give or take 500 kilometers

 about 700

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## Propp

I was in Vyborg several years ago. Nice town, especially old fortress. There you can visit a museum of frontier guards and old sells where the prisoners in 18 century were under arrest.

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## z80

> Originally Posted by Dogboy182  i'd say give or take 500 kilometers   about 700

 yay !! Veedey !!! Where have you been mate????

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## waxwing

Hi,
I spent a couple of weeks in Moscow in Dec. 2001. You could get apts. over the internet for $50 a day back then, don't know if it's changed. I spent $70 if I remember rightly and it was very nice; beautiful location on the Garden Ring, very secure with all mod cons etc etc. 
If you're not a newbie tourist you can get nice apts. for 300-500/month no doubt, and even lower if you're happy to be living at the end of the metro line.
Moscow has an expensive, expat/New Russian 'scene' for restaurants and clubs etc. and if you're not careful you can easily spend alot. Equally, you don't need to. 
Bottom line is that, like so many other 'exotic' locations, you *will* spend too much as a first timer. That's just the way it works. 
As to visas, I got the tourist invitation from one of several perfectly good agencies over the web which sell it fairly cheap, and then got the <1month tourist visa via some company in London.
The trick is that they give some meaningless info to the bureaucrats, and then when you get to Moscow you pop into their office in the first week and get it stamped/registered whatever. It's a doddle.
 It's really not hard, just do a search on the Web. For longer stays you could consider the multiple-entry business visas (6 months/12 month) but the latter could set you back up to 200 $ (take my advice on this with a pinch of salt, since I haven't done it; do the research).

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## Dogboy182

Screwь itь, imь goingь toь kazanь toь seeь myь bigь TUь teddyь ! ! !

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