# Forum Learning Russian Language Pronunciation, Speech & Accent  Russian R

## Nathan

Ok, I'm sure you guys have gotten this before, and I've asked it in other places before as well, but how do you laern to roll your Rs?  I've been trying on and off for about 2 years!  I didn't really want to take up a language with rolled Rs until I could learn to do it; that' why ive put off Spanish for so long.  I just can't seem to get the knack of it. 
I know the tongue is supposed to be touching the top of the mouth near the front... and you apply air pressure to get it to flap, but somehow, I just can't seem to do it. 
Anyone have any suggestions? 
Also, my tongue is shorter than average.  Could this 'cripple' my rolled Rs? 
edit: found a couple of threads about this a few pages back... but stlil if anyone has anything new to say id love to hear it.  I've heard that some Russians and Spaniards can't roll their Rs but I've also heard that everyone is capable of learning to do it.

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## Линдзи

I could never ever roll my Rs.  I'd been trying since Spanish class in elementary school.  And then magically last year, I could.  I can't tell what I started doing differently. 
  So in summary...Rs are magic.

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## DDT

I thought everyone could roll their tongue. Don't all kids run around their neighbourhoods making shrill rolled tongue noises? Sheeze! OK, stick your tongue to the roof of your mouth just about where your teeth and palate meet and try to say the letter "D" or "duh" . You will have to force air from you diaphram fairly hard at first to get the tongue to begin rolling. You want to try to obtain a continuous roll like a machine gun. Once you get it, keep doing it. I mean a lot. Wake your significant other up in the morning with a shrill rolled tongue noise really loud in the ear. But make sure your are wearing protective gear first. This is important!
In no time at all it will have  become second nature to you and you will be able to sound like a pompus ass at the drop of a hat.

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## Nathan

When I do that I get a buzz.  I feel my tongue flapping ever so slightly, but I think I'm doing it totally wrong because to get even the buzz flap I have to vary the force of my exhalation.  I've read that when rolling Rs the exhalation force should be constant.  Is this your experience?

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## DDT

> When I do that I get a buzz.

 Do you get the munchies too?  ::   
Seriously, try moving your tongue further back. The air flow should be constant.

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## VendingMachine

The irony is that we don't actually roll our R's in Russian. The Russian R is actually a tap, not a roll and is therefore almost identical with the 't' in 'Betty' and 'matter' in some varieties of English.   

> You will have to force air from you diaphram fairly hard at first to get the tongue to begin rolling.

 Forcing air from the diaphragm? Give me a break! You hardly exhale at all when saying the Russian R. Looks like you're doing something wrong.

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## DDT

Yes that is true. This is just a training exercise.

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## Pioner

No, that is not true.  
I speak Russian. I cannot prononce Russian "R". Nothing worked on me, my "R" is still very soft.  
No diagrams, no teachers were able to teach me.   ::

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## VendingMachine

> No, that is not true.  
> I speak Russian. I cannot prononce Russian "R". Nothing worked on me, my "R" is still very soft.  
> No diagrams, no teachers were able to teach me.

 You mean you speak with a burr. Just like Mr Lenin.

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## translationsnmru

I have problems with Russian "эр" too. Tried doing the drills and stuff, but I guess I was just too lazy to follow them through.

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## Nathan

Ok, how exactly does one breathe 'through the diaphram'?  How is this different from normal breathing. 
Also, what drills?

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## DDT

> Ok, how exactly does one breathe 'through the diaphram'?  How is this different from normal breathing. 
> Also, what drills?

 All you really need to do is contract the muscles in your abdomen while attempting to make the sound. It is not like you are blowing or anything. There will not be much actual movment of air. VM is right about that.

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## adoc

When I was a child, I could not pronounce RRRRR, and my parents took me to a speech doctor. And this is what as far as I can remember he suggested me to do, and it did work:   

> OK, stick your tongue to the roof of your mouth just about where your teeth and palate meet and try to say the letter "D" or "duh" . You will have to force air from you diaphram fairly hard at first to get the tongue to begin rolling. You want to try to obtain a continuous roll like a machine gun.

 D-D-D-D-D-RRRRRRRR

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## dariushka

> No, that is not true.  
> I speak Russian. I cannot prononce Russian "R". Nothing worked on me, my "R" is still very soft.  
> No diagrams, no teachers were able to teach me.

 Well did you try to just say it over and over and over again... without people.....It worked for me when i was little. I couldn't say the Russian "R" and my parents took me to the doctor and I still couldn't do it, and then one day i decided to try it again and i said it over and over again for like an hour and it worked.

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## Pioner

> Originally Posted by Pioner  No, that is not true.  
> I speak Russian. I cannot prononce Russian "R". Nothing worked on me, my "R" is still very soft.  
> No diagrams, no teachers were able to teach me.     Well did you try to just say it over and over and over again... without people.....It worked for me when i was little. I couldn't say the Russian "R" and my parents took me to the doctor and I still couldn't do it, and then one day i decided to try it again and i said it over and over again for like an hour and it worked.

 Well, a lot were done, nothing worked. I can't make tip of my tongue to vibrate properly. Anyhow, it does not bother me anymore, why waste my time? Actually I even heard, that it is surgical problem, "уздечка яызка" quite tough, and needed to be cut a little for that. But that should be done while I was little. It will not work now. Whatever, it is not a problem anymore, more then that many girls said that my soft "r" sounded very sexy.  ::

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## fantom605

*makes weird noises and spits a little*  
  Aww, crap, I give up!!!!     ::  
 -Fantom

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## Biancca

I learned to roll my "r"s when I was little by saying "brush" over and over but with a little "d" sound where the r would go...like saying "bdush" I guess. 
On some language tape it says to say "prince of Prussia" like that (pdince of pdussia...)  
To roll  a German "r" I just kept saying gr

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## Линдзи

Personally, my experience with Rs suggests that faith healing is probably as effective as speech therapy in correcting wussy R syndrome   ::

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## Анатолий

Guys, don't be put off , if you can't pronounce Russian R. Both English and French/German R sound cute when pronounced in Russian. It is in no way a problem to understanding, there are Russian who burr. We can even understand when Chinese pronounce it as L (Japanese R is also similar to L).   ::   
Just keep practising and listen to the sounds.

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## Remyisme

aren't you americans make a sound that's close to our R, when you pronounce the words, "throat" or "through"?

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## Moryachka

> aren't you americans make a sound that's close to our R, when you pronounce the words, "throat" or "through"?

 You know, I never thought about that - and I think your right!  At least for when the R is in the middle of a word, the comparison works.  That's so cool.

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## Kris C

Being Scottish, a 'hard' R comes naturally when I speak.  As does the 'och' sound.

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## awjln

German's "R" is pronounced forcing air from diaphragm similar to the sound when you gargle your throat with liquid.  
But Russian's "R" and many other countries' "R" such as indian spanish the machinegun sound is mainly caused by vibrating tongue with a little bit air flow.  
However in real life when i hear russians talking to each others, i can hardly hear that machinegun sound, but something like "L", eg, "zdLasvooytye", "da skoLaga". But songs like "Катюша" and such have too much stunning machinegun sound.  
My question is that If I cannot "machinegun" what so ever, can i just pronounce "L" instead? eg "halasho...etc" not "harrrrrrrrrrrrrrrasho"?
cuz I think using english "R" to pronouce russian "R" sounds strange, i'd prefer using "L". 
many thanx!

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## TATY

Холошо 
sounds tatar  :P

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## Spiderkat

> German's "R" is pronounced forcing air from diaphragm similar to the sound when you gargle your throat with liquid.  
> ...

 You probably meant _ch_ instead of _r_, which sounds like _x_ in Russian or _j_ in Spanish.

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## TATY

Or French R. It is uvular.

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## VendingMachine

Do not substitute R with L - you will have a Chinese accent or something.

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## Spiderkat

> Do not substitute R with L - you will have a Chinese accent or something.

 I would say a Japanese accent since the _r_ sounds like an _l_.

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## Spiderkat

> Or French R. It is uvular.

 Probably and I would say whether it is an uvular _r_ or not will depend on the word and on the person.

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## Triton

> I would say a Japanese accent since the r sounds like an l.

 Nope, it’s viceversa —  in Japanese accent L would sound as R.  ::  (Remember _Lost in Translation_ movie).

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## Spiderkat

> *Nope, it’s viceversa* —  in Japanese accent L would sound as R.  (Remember _Lost in Translation_ movie).

 What's in bold makes no sense, unless you don't know the meaning of _vice versa_. Was it humor?  ::  
And it's about how to pronounce a _r_ and not a _l_.  ::

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## scotcher

It makes perfect sense.  
The Japanese language has no L sound, so Japanese people tend to pronounce L sounds in other languages as R, and not, as you said, the opposite way around:   

> I would say a Japanese accent since the r sounds like an l.

 Hence "vice versa".

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## Spiderkat

> It makes perfect sense.  
> The Japanese language has no L sound, so Japanese people tend to pronounce L sounds in other languages as R, and not, as you said, the opposite way around:     
> 			
> 				I would say a Japanese accent since the r sounds like an l.
> 			
> 		  Hence "vice versa".

 Did you read what I wrote? You can't say "no + it's vice versa" since "no" here implies that I'm wrong and "vice versa" implies that I'm right.   
Here's the definition of _vice versa_ : used to say that the opposite of a situation you have just described is also true. 
This means that "the opposite way around" has nothing to do with the meaning of "vice versa".  ::  
You're right, no L groups sound but R groups sound which sound like L. For instance, _domo arigato_ would sound like _domo aligato_.

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## scotcher

> Did you read what I wrote? You can't say "no + it's vice versa" since "no" here implies that I'm wrong and "vice versa" implies that I'm right. 
> Here's the definition of vice versa : used to say that the opposite of a situation you have just described is also true.
> This means that "the opposite way around" has nothing to do with the meaning of "vice versa". Wink

 Yeah you're right, his use of vice versa was wrong, but since it was still blindingly obvious what he meant, and since what he meant was perfectly correct, it didn't warrant the sarcasm you dished out.   

> You're right, no L groups sound but R groups sound which sound like L. For instance, _domo arigato_ would sound like _domo aligato_.

 Are you on crack? Japanese doesn't have an L sound so it's R sounds like an L? If that were the case, why not just call it an L in the first place?

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## Spiderkat

> Yeah you're right, his use of vice versa was wrong, but since it was still blindingly obvious what he meant, and since what he meant was perfectly correct, it didn't warrant the sarcasm you dished out.

 There was no sarcasm. I simply pointed out something.    

> Are you on crack? Japanese doesn't have an L sound so it's R sounds like an L? *If that were the case, why not just call it an L in the first place?*

 No, I'm not. What kind of stupid question is that _[what's in bold]_.
Do I need to go through a bunch of explanation or can you do your own research? But maybe you can speak Japanese.

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## Triton

> What's in bold makes no sense, unless you don't know the meaning of vice versa. Was it humor?

 I was thinking of the best translation for the word *наоборот*. Wrong choice, I guess.  ::

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## Spiderkat

> I was thinking of the best translation for the word *наоборот*. Wrong choice, I guess.

 This kind of thing happens sometimes, don't worry.  ::

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## kalinka_vinnie

> Are you on crack? Japanese doesn't have an L sound so it's R sounds like an L? If that were the case, why not just call it an L in the first place?

   ::  They dooon't? Then they must have a really thick r that sounds like an 'l'. Many of the standard pharses I learnt use an 'l'... have I really been mistaken all these years (and the Japanese dont correct me?)

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## scotcher

> No, I'm not. What kind of stupid question is that _[what's in bold]_.
> Do I need to go through a bunch of explanation or can you do your own research? But maybe you can speak Japanese.

 You are having trouble understanding what everyone else is typing and _I_ am the one who needs further explanations? haha. Yeah right.   

> But maybe you can speak Japanese

 I_ could_ speak reasonable Japanese (for a gaijin) a few years ago after having studied it at uni for three years then sat (and passed) level 2 of the Japanese Language Proficiency Test, so while I don't really speak it very well_ now_, you can rest assured that I am perfectly well aquainted with how the language works and sounds.   

> They dooon't? Then they must have a really thick r that sounds like an 'l'. Many of the standard pharses I learnt use an 'l'... have I really been mistaken all these years (and the Japanese dont correct me?)

 No, they don't, but yes, the Japanese R does sound different to English or Russian R. In some parts of Japan they pronounce it closer to an L, in other parts they pronounce it closer to a D. It's still recognisably an R though. 
That is why Japanese people often transpose R for L when speaking foreign languages, or at least so the stereotype goes: _ 
Customer: The chicken was rubbery. 
Japanese waiter: Oh thank you very much!_ 
which is what Triton meant when he corrected Spiderkat in the first place.

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## Spiderkat

> No, they don't, but yes, the Japanese R does sound different to English or Russian R. In some parts of Japan *they pronounce it closer to an L*, in other parts they pronounce it closer to a D. It's still recognisably an R though.

 Make up your mind. In your own words you just agreed to what I had said in my first post.
And I agree with you they pronounce the _r_ in difference ways.   

> ...
> which is what Triton meant when he corrected Spiderkat in the first place.

 Actually he didn't because it was about how they would pronounce an _r_ in Russian and you jumped into the pot with both feet to argue how they pronounce an _l_ in English.

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## scotcher

Err. Go back and re-read the thread, in order, and see if you can see at what point you started getting confused. I'll give you a hint, since I don't credit you with the brains to find it on your own, it was around about here:   

> Originally Posted by VendingMachine  Do not substitute R with L - you will have a Chinese accent or something.   I would say a Japanese accent since the _r_ sounds like an _l_.

 I suggest you read it a couple of times. 
Incidentally, welcome to my ignore list.

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## Spiderkat

> ...       Originally Posted by Spiderkat        Originally Posted by VendingMachine  Do not substitute R with L - you will have a Chinese accent or something.   I would say a Japanese accent since the _r_ sounds like an _l_.   I suggest you read it a couple of times. 
> Incidentally, welcome to my ignore list.

 You seem to have some problem to understand your own language.
The first one means do not replace the R sound by an L sound.
The second one means try not to pronounce the R the Japanese way since theirs sound like L.
In both cases you'll get either a Chinese or Japanese accent. 
The posts you mentioned refer and were an answer to these ones   

> My question is that If I cannot "machinegun" what so ever, can i just pronounce "L" instead? eg "halasho...etc" not "harrrrrrrrrrrrrrrasho"?
> cuz I think using english "R" to pronouce russian "R" sounds strange, i'd prefer using "L".

  

> Холошо 
> sounds tatar  :P

 You're a big boy, I guess, so write whatever you want on your... ignore list.

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## Triton

Ok, let me explain how I understood all this and what I meant.   

> can i just pronounce "L" instead? eg "halasho...etc" not "harrrrrrrrrrrrrrrasho"?

  

> Do not substitute R with L - you will have a Chinese accent

 My understanding of the last statement: 
you have a Chinese accent in Russian, if you substitute Russian R with the Chinese sound, which for a native Russian speaker sounds close to Russian L, e.g. you pronounce the word *хорошо* as [ха*л*ашо] instead of [ха*р*ашо]. 
(Btw, *Awjln*, it’s ok to speak like this, you will be understood and that’s what you want, isn’t it? Everybody has accent, so don’t bother about it.)   

> I would say a Japanese accent since the r sounds like an l.

 My understaning of this statement:
you have a Japanese accent in Russian, if you substitute Russian R with the Japanese sound, which for a native Russian speaker sounds close to Russian L, e.g. you pronounce the word *хорошо* as [ха*л*ашо] instead of [ха*р*ашо]. 
This statement seems wrong to me, because for a native Russian speaker, this specific Japanese sound sounds closer to Russian R, not to Russian L. So when Japanese people pronounce the word *хорошо*, the R in it sounds a bit different from Russian R, but it definitely doesn’t sound as Russian L. 
At the same time, when Japanese people pronounce Russian words with L, e. g. *плохо*, for a native Russian speaker it sounds as R - [п*р*оха]. 
In other words: 
Chinese people substitute both Russian R and Russian L with the Chinese sound which sounds close to Russian L.
Japanese people substitute both Russian R and Russian L with the Japanese sound which sounds close to Russian R. 
Thus
[ха*л*ашо] [п*л*оха] – Chinese accent
[ха*р*ашо] [п*р*оха] -  Japanese accent 
I assumed that the same is right for the accents these people have in English, but now I’m not so sure about it.  ::

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## Spiderkat

> ...
> My understaning of this statement:
> you have a Japanese accent in Russian, if you substitute Russian R with the Japanese sound, which for a native Russian speaker sounds close to Russian L, e.g. you pronounce the word *хорошо* as [ха*л*ашо] instead of [ха*р*ашо].
> ...

 That's what I meant. But I used _would_ to make it a suppositional statement based on how some of their _R_s, in transliteration, sound like _L_s.

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## Анатолий

> Ok, let me explain how I understood all this and what I meant. 
> Thus
> [ха*л*ашо] [п*л*оха] – Chinese accent
> [ха*р*ашо] [п*р*оха] -  Japanese accent

 In Chinese accent it depends on the position of л/l. As there is no final L in Chinese dialects, so it is pronounced closer to English R at the end of a word. So "file" (файл) may sound like "fire" (American way) from a Chinese speaker. 
In Korean there are both L and R (pronnounced like Japanese R) sounds, it is driven by the position of the letter. So between vowels it's R, before and after consonants, when doubled and at the end of a word it's L. The same letter is also sometimes pronounced as N. The Koreans confuse R and L a lot as well.  _Can anyone provide some links on how to explain in details the pronunciation of the Russian R_ to a foreigner, for example a Chinese speaker please? Audio links would be good too.  Comparing with other language wouldn't work.  ::

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## Chuvak

> [ха*л*ашо] [п*л*оха] – Chinese accent

 Халасо (like Халасо, я тосе такда фам ф цай писаць не буду)  ::

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## Wowik

> D-D-D-D-D-RRRRRRRR

 TH-TH-S-SSS  ::   
I also prononce R as Mr. Lenin.

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## Wowik

> I even heard, that it is surgical problem, "уздечка яызка"

 I thik I has it    ::

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## Vladi

> Ok, I'm sure you guys have gotten this before, and I've asked it in other places before as well, but how do you laern to roll your Rs?  I've been trying on and off for about 2 years!  I didn't really want to take up a language with rolled Rs until I could learn to do it; that' why ive put off Spanish for so long.  I just can't seem to get the knack of it. 
> I know the tongue is supposed to be touching the top of the mouth near the front... and you apply air pressure to get it to flap, but somehow, I just can't seem to do it. 
> Anyone have any suggestions? 
> Also, my tongue is shorter than average.  Could this 'cripple' my rolled Rs?  
> edit: found a couple of threads about this a few pages back... but stlil if anyone has anything new to say id love to hear it.  I've heard that some Russians and Spaniards can't roll their Rs but I've also heard that everyone is capable of learning to do it.

 Spanish cars when you press gas pedal "say": Roooom, room, rooom.  ::

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## awjln

finally I can roll my Rs! at the beginning I thought it was impossible, but it is possible, if I can do it, then anyone can do it as well.   
It's like learning to drive a manual transmision car, frustrating to learn, but once you've mastered it, fun and easy to drive  
this tip worked extemely well for me: try rolling your R at much higher pitched tone. have you ever been a night disco or dancing club or whateva, those people Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr at a very high pitched tone for a few seconds and the pitch keeps going up. this long high pitched Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr can also found in many latin american music.  
but here is the problem: I cannot roll my Rs when I am eating. besides, I found that a rolling R is kinda different from a real russian "p",  "p" sounds much more crispier and with a single or very few flap(s), and it seems that when russians pronounce "p", their tougue seems not rolling back, or straightt up. instead it goes forward and up behind the upper teeth, am I correct?

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## Lampada

> ..., and it seems that when russians pronounce "p", their tougue seems not rolling back, or straightt up. instead it goes forward and up behind the upper teeth, am I correct?

 I do not think it goes forward, just up and parallel to the roof of the mouth.

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## charlestonian

---

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## charlestonian

Russia... sorry for a typo. My bad ::

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## Wowik

> sorry for a typo

 You could use "Edit" button on upper right corner of your message  ::

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by charlestonian  sorry for a typo   You could use "Edit" button on upper right corner of your message

 ЖЖОШЬ!

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## Garfunkel

My advice - do not roll the Russian 'R' at all! Just say  *'Betty bought a bit of better butter'.*
it should sound american - something like (I can't attach files so you have to figure out the pronunciation yourself. - beddy bad a bid av bedder budder) the 'd' sound is close the Russian 'R'. When I first heard an American say 'Get out of here' (gedaudav...) I thought: 'well, he can say a perfect russian r!'.
maybe you ought to put your tongue tip a bit more backward in your mouth. Any questions? Ask me. And, btw, I don't care for my spelling, grammar or whatsoever ::

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## Lampada

> My advice - do not roll the Russian 'R' at all! Just say  *'Betty bought a bit of better butter'.*
> it should sound american - something like (I can't attach files so you have to figure out the pronunciation yourself. - beddy bad a bid av bedder budder) the 'd' sound is close the Russian 'R'. When I first heard an American say 'Get out of here' (gedaudav...) I thought: 'well, he can say a perfect russian r!'.
> maybe you ought to put your tongue tip a bit more backward in your mouth. Any questions? Ask me. And, btw, I don't care for my spelling, grammar or whatsoever

 Американец в Иллинойсе будет бить себя в грудь, твердя, что в словах _daughter, water_ он произносит _t_ , хотя ясно слышится подобие русского "р".

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## gRomoZeka

> Американец в Иллинойсе будет бить себя в грудь, твердя, что в словах _daughter, water_ он произносит _t_ , хотя ясно слышится подобие русского "р".

 Я что-то не пойму... Т.е. фактически в этом слове t звучит как русское "р"??? Не могу представить. Можно ли где-то это послушать?

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