# Forum Other Languages All other languages Japanese  Some kanji

## laxxy

I keep getting confused about writing some kanji... 
e.g. does 叫have 5 or 6 strokes? Kanjidic says 6, Heisig says 5. And if it is 6, shouldn't 収 then have 5? 
Similarly, is it correct to write e.g. 既 in 9 strokes (with "L"-shaped stroke #7)?

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## MOG

http://kakijun.main.jp/
See here and click 漢字の検索 and enter the words. It shows well what you want.  ::

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## laxxy

Thanks! That is useful. 
so the "4"-like shape in 叫is quite different from 収, huh.
Interesting: Yarxi, TakaDB and Halpern list 収 with 5 strokes, but Heisig, KanjiDic and this site have it with 4. 
And I won't even start talking about the order -- I've seen 4 (!!!) versions already for that little element  ::  
I guess I have to take the site as the authoritative reference for writing, it doesn't help looking things up when dictionaries themselves don't agree though... 
BTW, I wonder how do you write 必? I just find it rather unnatural to follow the "standard" version, it is much easier to write 心 and cross it imo...

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## MOG

漢字源（学研） says:  

> 叫
> 《解字》
> 会意兼形声。右側は、糾（キュウ）の原字で、なわをよじりあわせたさまを描いた象形文字。叫はそれを音符と  し、口を加えた字で、金切り声（しぼり声）でさけぶこと。 収
> 《解字》
> 会意。左側は、二本のひもを一つによじりあわすさま。

 It seems both "4" have the same origin. It represents how two strings twine. I guess they are different in writing because the part is on the right side of the kanji and the other is on the left side. Maybe it is because it is easier to write or they look more beautiful in the separate ways of writing. 
from another site http://dictionary.www.infoseek.co.jp...ty=&qtb=&qtk=0 http://dictionary.www.infoseek.co.jp...ty=&qtb=&qtk=0 
I write 必 with the standard version now. I used to write it in the weird way when I was little, don't remember how I did but it made the letter look very poor. It let me write it easier and look better following the standard way  ::

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## laxxy

Thanks! 
By the way:　which way are they teaching to write 人 in schools now? Namely, should the little piece on top be straight (like in print), or slanted (as suggested on that site)? 
It seems like there are two camps on this issue  ::  last year I took a Japanese course and professor there was correcting all my slanted ones to straight.

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## MOG

Excuse me, but I don't get what you want to know about. What do you mean by "the little piece on top"? I suppose you are talking about the first touch of the first stroke. If you write it with a brush, you put it on the paper left to right first, I mean, getting the top of the brush on the left side and the root on the other side to start the stroke. So it is just a track of it. But when you write it with a pen, you can't make a stroke bold like a brush, so it looks like this: 人. 
Maybe you wrote it like this: 入? Am I talking right?

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## laxxy

> Excuse me, but I don't get what you want to know about. What do you mean by "the little piece on top"? I suppose you are talking about the first touch of the first stroke. If you write it with a brush, you put it on the paper left to right first, I mean, getting the top of the brush on the left side and the root on the other side to start the stroke. So it is just a track of it. But when you write it with a pen, you can't make a stroke bold like a brush, so it looks like this: 人. 
> Maybe you wrote it like this: 入? Am I talking right?

 Thanks, I think you've answered my question  ::  
It's not so much about the first touch, as about a bend in the first stroke. (first straight down, then to lower left). The printed version has the piece above the junction pointing straight up. Which is, as I understand from your reply, how they are teaching to write it now, too. 
There are some manuals (e.g. Tuttle: Reading and Writing Japanese) that prescribe drawing a *straight* first stroke from upper right to lower left even when writing with a pen. The piece on top is then slanted to the right, as there is no bend at the junction. That is, writing exactly like your page shows, but using a pen. And 入 is then an exact mirror image of 人, with a straight first stroke from upper left to lower right.
Hope I was clear enough  ::

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## MOG

Ah, you're talking about the upper half of 人 above the junction  ::

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