# Forum Other Languages English for Russians - Изучаем английский язык Practice your English  Difficulties of translating. English / Russian

## ekaterinak

*songs and not only ones* 
Everyone of us have done mistakes in translation. Reason of them is conditioned by difference of grammar rules. For example, Russian can be misled in English article, because we have not them in Russian at all. English native speakers are confused by Russian rules for verbs and using of case.  ::   
But if we look at it more attentively we will notice that our mistakes very often are typically. I guess that these typically errors were found by you or authors of textbooks before. So, please, let change our own experience like that. Maybe you can give us some links for interesting publications or books about this theme.  ::   
To make our efforts of learning language more attractive, we can discuss here translate of modern songs (but not only this). I know it is very creatively process.  Probably somebody of us will become to a poet.   ::  Anyway we will meet a lot of idioms and reference to national literature, traditional and proverbs.   ::   
There are many English and Russian native speakers here, and we could help one another. So take our textbooks and dictionaries for help. Translate, discuss, listen, learn.
Lets begin          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXANpfmiWVw  
Most difficult expression was marked by me in green *Moscow never sleeps*  
Moscow never sleeps.
Moscow never sleeps.
Я люблю тебя, Москва!
Люблю тебя. 
Moscow never sleeps.
Я люблю тебя, Москва!
Люблю тебя.  А есть ли любовь?!
Возьми мое сердце,
Коснись меня взглядом,
Почувствуй тепло
И будь со мной рядом. Не бойся любить
И разбей все преграды,
Ведь я, все быть может,
Люблю тебя тоже. 
Я люблю тебя, Москва!
Люблю тебя.
Moscow never sleeps. 
А есть ли любовь?!
Возьми мое сердце,
Коснись меня взглядом.
Ведь я, все быть может,
Люблю тебя тоже. 
Возьми мое сердце,
Коснись меня взглядом,
Почувствуй тепло
И будь со мной рядом.
Не бойся любить
И разбей все преграды,
Ведь я, все быть может,
Люблю тебя тоже. 
А есть ли любовь?! 
Возьми мое сердце,
Коснись меня взглядом,
Почувствуй тепло
И будь со мной рядом.
Не бойся любить
И разбей все преграды,
Ведь я, все быть может,
Люблю тебя тоже. 
Я люблю тебя Москва!
Люблю тебя. 
Moscow never sleeps 
Я люблю тебя Москва!
Люблю тебя.
Moscow never sleeps   English translation *Moscow never sleeps*  
Moscow never sleeps.
Moscow never sleeps.
I love you, Moscow!
I love you.
Moscow never sleeps.
I love you, Moscow!
I love you. 
Would the Love exist?!
Take my heart,
Touch on me with your sight,
Feel the warm 
And be near me.
Don’t be afraid of be loving
And break the all obstacles,
Everything may be, 
Maybe I love you too.  
I love you, Moscow!
I love you.
Moscow never sleeps.
Does the Love exist?
Take my heart,
Touch on me with your sight,
Everything may be, 
Maybe I love you too.  
Take my heart,
Touch on me with your sight,
Feel the warm 
And be near me.
Don’t be afraid of be loving
And break the all obstacles,
Everything may be, 
Maybe I love you too.  
Would the Love exist?! 
Take my heart,
Touch on me with your sight,
Feel the warm 
And be near me.
Don’t be afraid of be loving
And break the all obstacles,
Everything may be, 
Maybe I love you too.  
I love you, Moscow!
I love you.
Moscow never sleeps.
I love you, Moscow!
I love you.
I love you, Moscow! 
__________________________________________________  ____________________ 
and in addition  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PuJgxTuTxE  *Между мной и тобой* 
Сколько нам с тобой теперь осталось? Лишь малость.
И живет со мной святая жалость – моя усталость.
Между мной и тобой остается ветер.
Между мной и тобой только слово: «Где ты?». 
Нет моей вины, что тобой болею, 
Седею.
Ты придешь ко мне, я тебя согрею,
Жалею. 
Между мной и тобой остается ветер.
Между мной и тобой только слово: «Где ты?».
Между мной и тобой остается ветер.
Между мной и тобой только слово: «Где ты?». 
Но снедает нас моя дорога – тревога.
Расстояние в жизнь – это так много, 
Долго.
Между мной и тобой остается ветер.
Между мной и тобой только слово: «Где ты?».
«Где ты», – я спрошу,
Может, кто ответит.
Между мной и тобой остается ветер. 
Ветер.
Где ты?
Может , кто ответит.
Где ты?  in English  *Between me and you* 
How much time are we having for the future?/How much time will we have spent together? Only a little.
And the saint pity as my tiredness are living inside me.
The wind is staying between me and you.
There is the word, “Where are you?”  
It’s not my fair, that I am ached by you,
                                                     that I turned gray.
You will come to me, I will give you the warm heart.
                                                      I regret. 
The wind is staying between me and you.
There is the word, “Where are you?”
The wind is staying between me and you.
There is the word, “Where are you?” 
But my life choice is an anxiety is exhausted us.
The distant like a whole life, it is so much, 
                                                              So long.
The wind is staying between me and you.
There is the word, “Where are you?” 
“Where are you?”- I will ask.
Maybe somebody will reply to…
The wind is staying between me and you. 
Wind.
Where are you?
Maybe somebody will reply to….
Where are you?
__________________________________________
Some translations were done already http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...p?f=57&t=18959 http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...hp?f=2&t=16684 http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...hp?f=2&t=16668 http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...hp?f=2&t=16328

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## MikeM

"Feel the worm" is my favorite!   ::

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## bitpicker

I want to play, too!  ::  
OK, I've been learning Russian for eight months only and English isn't my native language either, but here goes. I mentioned this song in Rockzmom's thread and linked to the video on Youtube.  Слот - Мёртвые звёзды 
Я сам себе придумал путь,
Расставил маяки
Иду по узкой пустыне
Один в толпе людской
И всё пытаюсь обмануть
Течение быстрой реки
Пока мой след не простынет,
Не ходи за мной 
Ты идёшь по воде
Зная как, зная где
А я следом по дну
Я тону 
[Послушай]
Остановись, пока не поздно
Я падаю вниз за тобой
Туда, где светят твои мёртвые звёзды,
Ослепляя солнце пустотой 
Я распугал давно друзей,
Но мой спокоен взгляд
Свободный волк-одиночка
К законам спиной
Мне надо сдать себя в музей
И жить там как экспонат
Всё, я сказал и точка -
Не ходи за мной 
Сделать наоборот,
Подобрать к тебе код,
Отключить от сети
Не уйти   Dead Stars 
I devised a path for myself
Lined it with beacons
Walking through a narrow desert
Alone in a pulk of people
And everything tries to change the course
Of the quick river
While my tracks do not grow cold
Do not follow me 
You are walking on water
Knowing how, knowing where
And I am sinking immediately
To the ground 
Listen!
Stop before it is too late
I am sinking down behind you
To where your dead stars shine
Eclipsing the sun with their void 
I chased away my friends long ago
But placid is my gaze
A free lone wolf
with his back towards the law
I should put myself in a museum
And live there as an exhibit
That's all, I say, no more -
Don't follow me 
Undo it
Break your code
Unhook you from the net
No leaving    
Of course, there might be errors in there, so feel free to post corrections. BTW, in case you're wondering, the lyrics are from the album version, the video version only has a repetition of 'за тобой' (behind you) in place of the two stanzas beginning with 'you are walking on water' and 'undo it' respectively. 
Robin

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## ekaterinak

> "Feel the worm" is my favorite!

 and mine too   ::   ::   ::  
Even like this way we can learn new foreign words. It is very useful word in technical translations. 
Змеевик. Может быть частью охлаждающей системы.  ::

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## ekaterinak

> Слот - Мёртвые звёзды  Dead Stars 
> I devised a path for myself
> Lined it with beacons
> Walking through a narrow desert 
> Alone in a pulk of people
> And *everything* tries to change the course
> Of the quick river
> While my tracks do not grow cold  (I think the word “everything” must not be in your translation. In Russian this sentence means that 
> He tries to go against the stream. He is doing it now and did it before now but the stream is stronger and faster. He can not change anything in this circumstances. 
> ...

 Молодец! Мне понравился твой перевод. / attaboy! I liked your translation.  ::

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## bitpicker

Thanks for the correction! 
Robin

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## Zaya

> "Feel the worm"

 Нельзя же так пугать, я уже было подумала, что там про глистов.  ::

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## ekaterinak

This song stuns everybody who listens to it. It is the excellent, funny joke. After it I always want to ask somebody: “Well, who wants to be repainted?”  ::   :"":  
It was found by *ski-ops* from this forum. more is here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18854&start=90  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glvMMfmIQIA  *Брюнетка* _Группа Kamon_  
Раньше я была
Натуральная блондинка – 
Розовое платьице,
Домик и машинка.
Розовые туфельки,
Сумочка, собачка
Но захотелось перемен – 
Купила краски пачку! 
Хей, детка, я теперь брюнетка!
Бежать бессмысленно,
Я стреляю метко!
Хей, детка, я теперь – брюнетка!
Спасения нет – 
Ты застрял в моей сетке! 
Раньше я была натуральной русой –
Косу заплетала, одевалась безвкусно.
Знала где у мужа прячется заначка,
Но захотелось перемен –
Купила краски пачку. 
Хей, детка, я теперь брюнетка!
Бежать бессмысленно,
Я стреляю метко!
Хей, детка, я теперь – брюнетка!
Спасения нет – 
Ты застрял в моей сетке! 
Я стреляю метко! 
Ты застрял в моей сетке! 
Раньше я была натуральная рыжая.
Дерзкой, красивой, смелой и бесстыжей.
Укрощала тигра, мужика и тачки,
Но захотелось перемен –
Купила краски пачку. 
Хей, детка, я теперь брюнетка!
Бежать бессмысленно,
Я стреляю метко!
Хей, детка, я теперь – брюнетка!
Спасения нет – 
Ты застрял в моей сетке! 
Хей, детка, я теперь брюнетка!
Бежать бессмысленно,
Я стреляю метко!
Хей, детка, я теперь – брюнетка!
Спасения нет – 
Ты застрял в моей сетке! 
Раньше я была… 
Хей! Детка! Я теперь – брю…, брю…, брю…
Хей! Детка! Я теперь брюнетка!
Хей! Я теперь – брю…, брю…, брю… 
Хей!!!  *Brunette* _by “Kamon”_  
Earlier I was naturally blonde.
And I had all usual attributes of blonde.
I had a pink small clothes,
A pink small house and a pink small car.
Also I had nice pink shoes,
A small handbag, a sweet small dog.
But one day I wanted the changes,
I bought a bundle of hair dye! 
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
Don’t try to run away! It’s senselessly.
My shots are excellent-aimed! 
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
You won’t be saved.
You stuck in my nets.  
Earlier I was naturally light brown.
I was making my hair into the plait, getting dressed without any charm.
I knew where my husband hides the money.
But one day I wanted the changes,
I bought a bundle of hair dye! 
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
Don’t try to run away! It’s senselessly.
My shots are excellent-aimed! 
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
You won’t be saved.
You stuck in my nets.  
My shots are excellent-aimed!  
You stuck in my nets.  
Earlier I was naturally chestnut,
Impudent, beautiful, bold and shameless.
I was taming a tiger, a man and cool cars.
But one day I wanted the changes,
I bought the bundle of hair dye! 
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
Don’t try to run away! It’s senselessly.
My shots are excellent-aimed! 
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
You won’t be saved.
You stuck in my nets.  
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
Don’t try to run away! It’s senselessly.
My shots are excellent-aimed! 
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
You won’t be saved.
You stuck in my nets.  
Earlier I was… 
Hey, baby! I am the bru… bru… bru…
Hey, baby! I am the brunette now!
Hey, baby! I am the bru… bru… bru… 
Hey!

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## Hanna

That's funny!  It's a little bit like the old Danish song Barbie Girl -- also a parody.. 
[video:12iolryt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y24EKmzgYGU[/video:12iolryt] 
Ekaterinak --- I've got to help you with your English in this post; it had some errors! (Don't worry, wait until I start writing in Russian!!!  )    

> This song is stunned everybody who was listening its.  -->  This song stuns everybody who listens to it.  
> It is the excellent fanny joke. --> It is an excellent, funny joke.    (Warning: "Fanny" is an old nickname for "Frances", but it also means..... private part of women!  So the nickname is not used anymore   
> Well, who wants to be redyed?”  --> Well, who wants to be a redhead?

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## ekaterinak

> Well, who wants to be redyed?”  --> Well, who wants to be a redhead?

 Probably, I took the unsuitable word. I wanted to use the passive form of verb “repaint”. It is like “change color of hair”. Maybe it is in other words is “Well, Who wants to be changed color of your hair?”
 In Russian it is: Ну, кого перекрасить?! 
Эх, нелегкое это дело – учить иностранный язык, но я буду стараться! / Oh, learning of foreign language is not easy thing, but I will try! Thanks, Johanna for your corrections.   ::     ::   ::  
Your phrase "Well, who wants to be a redhead?" in Russian is “Ну, кто хочет быть рыжим?!” has two meanings.
The first one is a simple question is like “Do you want to have red hair?”
The second one has a hidden meaning. Sometimes we use this word “рыжий” (“a person who has red hair”) in meaning of “a person who is guilty of everything, a person of little importance who is blamed for the errors, incompetence, etc., of others, esp his superiors; scapegoat”. 
In context of “Brunette” song and my ironic question your variant is almost the goal. __________________________________________________  _____   

> That's funny!  It's a little bit like the old Danish song Barbie Girl -- also a parody..  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y24EKmzgYGU

   ::  I cannot see this video. Russian Internet has some limitation of admission to some video. But I think, I know what it is. It is "Barbie Girl" by Aqua, isn't it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxn567bHny8 ???

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## bitpicker

> Probably, I took the unsuitable word. I wanted to use the passive form of verb “repaint”. It is like “change color of hair”. Maybe it is in other words is “Well, Who wants to be changed color of your hair?”

 That would be 'who wants the color of their hair to be changed?' or simply, without any passive, 'who wants to change their hair color?'. 
As for the first sentence, it should be 'I chose an incorrect word'. Regarding articles, which I suppose are a major problem for native speakers of Russian: you use a definite article (the) when you refer to something specific. For instance: 'maybe the word I chose was incorrect'. This sentence refers to the specific word you chose. In the sentence I suggested I used an indefinite article (a, an) because there isn't just a single incorrect word you could have chosen but any number. 'I chose the incorrect word' technically means that there is just a single incorrect word you could have chosen, and you did.  
I hope I am making this clear - if you don't understand, please say so and I'll try harder.  ::  
Robin

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## ekaterinak

> As for the first sentence, it should be 'I chose an incorrect word'. Regarding articles, which I suppose are a major problem for native speakers of Russian: you use a definite article (the) when you refer to something specific. For instance: 'maybe the word I chose was incorrect'. This sentence refers to the specific word you chose. In the sentence I suggested I used an indefinite article (a, an) because there isn't just a single incorrect word you could have chosen but any number. 'I chose the incorrect word' technically means that there is just a single incorrect word you could have chosen, and you did.  
> I hope I am making this clear - if you don't understand, please say so and I'll try harder.  
> Robin

 Your explanation was very clear. Thank you very much. 
We have widespread joke in Russia. It is about of “Russian articles”.  ::   It is words which are littering our speech. They are “типа” and “вроде”. In English it is “like”, “similar”. Very often you can hear them from young people. If somebody to use them more then need we can ask him/her “Where are you from?” from England or USA? Is “типа” your English article “the”?”  ::   
So every time I ask myself “What must I use, “the” or “a (an)” or nothing? It is very difficult. Especially it is difficult to choose between “use articles” and “nothing”.   ::   ::  I know that I can say: “I like sea (sugar, sunlight…..)” (at all) and also I can use: “I like the Sea” (if I am telling about Red Sea to a person who knows or guesses what kind of sea I mean). But this question is not always so easy.   ::

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## bitpicker

Actually articles are quite simple, but that's easy for me to say as both my native German and English have them and use them in a similar fashion. Well, if you had to learn German you'd not only have to know when to use an article but also inflict declension on them, so English is the easy way out.  ::  
Well, and now that I really start to think about it, it's not quite so easy anymore. I can tell you that it really should be 'I like the sea' in the same way as it should be 'I like the sky'. And you don't use an article with uncountable things of which there still are quantities: milk, sugar, bread are examples. You only use a definite article with them, if you further define them with additional constituents of a sentence: I like milk, but I especially like the milk from the farm over there. However, adjectives etc. are no constituents of their own: I like curdled milk. But if given a choice of normal milk or curdled milk you could then say 'I like the curdled milk' - it's not curdled milk as such in this case, but it is a specific sample of milk set before you. 
And it gets worse of course when you consider when to use definite and indefinite articles. It is getting quite off-topic for this thread, so I'll stop here. However, it is refreshing to see what (to us) simple things are hard for native speakers of Russian, so we don't have to feel so stupid when we have a hard time with the peculiarities of Russian.  ::  
Robin

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## rockzmom

::   I know...sorry...   

> However, it is refreshing to see what (to us) simple things are hard for native speakers of Russian.
> Robin

 Robin, I am soooooo happy that you can explain all of that to ekaterinak! As an ignorant native, I just know naturally which words to say when (well most of the time). I don't remember or never learned most of the rules. It is all of the non-natives who learn all the rules and remember them!  It is the same for our government test for immigration! If you had to ask a native the same questions that an immigrant needs to know to become a citizen, all of us natural born citizens would be deported!   ::

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## bitpicker

> It is the same for our government test for immigration! If you had to ask a native the same questions that an immigrant needs to know to become a citizen, all of us natural born citizens would be deported!

 Rest assured it is just the same here in Germany... 
Actually I spend much time on a forum at delphiforums which is about learning German, and I work there as a tutor. There are so many things I need to teach people which I never thought twice about before, and which weren't even mentioned at any time during my university studies of German and English... I have to come up with rules constantly, rules you never find in any learner's grammar... 
Robin

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## ekaterinak

I know it is   ::  
But very want to speak about  

> Well, and now that I really start to think about it, it's not quite so easy anymore......

 My mind has been becoming lighter after your explanation. 
Actually, I started to understand English grammar from the books where every explaining was catching a likeness with Russian. Also I have liked the text-book for English studying by Cambridge University Press. There are all explaining in English, without any Russian words at all. But explaining build on everyday situations. I suppose, these ways of learning are the best. 
In Russian we have short expression «Объяснить на пальцах». It means to be able to explain hard things with using of easy (down-to-earth language) words. I think, an ability like that is the hi level of mastery. It seems to me, I met here persons like one.  ::   ::    

> However, it is refreshing to see what (to us) simple things are hard for native speakers of Russian, so we don't have to feel so stupid when we have a hard time with the peculiarities of Russian.

 Well, I constantly remember one thing, everybody has aptitude for foreign languages. Otherwise, Why can we speak in our own languages?   ::   ::  
just we (Russian and English, German and English, Russian  and German and so on) think in different ways. 
Ищущий – да найдет!   ::    

> If you had to ask a native the same questions that an immigrant needs to know to become a citizen, all of us natural born citizens would be deported!

 It is strange, but after my studying of English I started to understand better my own languages. I think, my knowledge of Russian is  more deeper now.   ::   ::   ____________________________________________
English native speakers, people who studying Russian, and persons who knows English, please help us with translations of song, for example “Brunette” song. There are many of using of articles (“the”, “a(an)”). And the text is simple. Look at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18854 . There are many Russian songs there. May be somebody wants to translate some. Ask about it.  English songs for translation into Russian are interesting too!  
For example a piece from “Clock” by Coldplay: 
Come out of things unsaid
Shoot an apple off my head and a
Trouble that can't be named
A tiger's waiting to be tamed, singing 
What does “an apple of….” mean? I don’t think that it is about an apple as a fruit! *Please, help!*

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## bitpicker

> What does “an apple of….” mean? I don’t think that it is about an apple as a fruit! Please, help!

 Actually I suppose it is about an apple. Do you know Wilhelm Tell? His legend has it that he was a fighter for freedom in Switzerland's history. I don't recall all the details, but there's a story about him being forced to shoot an apple from the head of his son with his crossbow, which he managed to do. I suppose this is in reference to that story. 
Robin

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## ekaterinak

> What does “an apple of….” mean? I don’t think that it is about an apple as a fruit! Please, help!
> 			
> 		  Actually I suppose it is about an apple. Do you know Wilhelm Tell? His legend has it that he was a fighter for freedom in Switzerland's history. I don't recall all the details, but there's a story about him being forced to shoot an apple from the head of his son with his crossbow, which he managed to do. I suppose this is in reference to that story. 
> Robin

 Probably it is, like you told. But in this case it is "Do something very dangerous for a person which is very dear to you" Hm... very interesting! 
I did not this meaning before, and I translated it like this 
Я выпущу то, что не сказано 
Все то, что двусмысленно и не может быть названо: 
Надежды, проблемы, дела, 
И хищника перед броском сдержит песня моя – Ты.

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## bitpicker

Well, I really don't know enough Russian to comment on a translation into Russian...  ::  
Robin

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## rockzmom

> I know it is   
> But I very much want to speak about this

 My laugh for the morning... (not your errors, the fact that you want to stay off topic and it is your thread!) thank you!    

> Well, I constantly remember one thing, everybody has aptitude for foreign languages. Otherwise, Why can we speak in our own languages?

 Well..... we speak our own language because we grow up learning it. If my parents and done as I have done with my children and thrown me into an immersion language school at the age of 5, then yes..  I would be able to speak 2 languages. However.. I have tried at different times in my life to learn three different languages and I have failed miserably at each.
With Spanish, I have tried multiple times and failed multiple times   ::   I honestly don't think I have the aptitude for language. I have it for many other things, just not that.  ::    _Maybe, Maybe_... I could do as many of you and learn to read and write a language and just not speak or listen...as that would be more like a programming language and I have in the past learned computer languages. But still, that would be a long stretch and wishful thinking.

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## bitpicker

Well, the aptitude children have for obtaining their native language dries up before puberty, normally. Some people are lucky enough to retain it, you send them into a foreign country for six weeks and they return talking like a native. At university, I had a professor with that talent. He spoke the usual languages plus Arabic, Gaelic... But that didn't make him any less boring as a teacher. 
I recently read that kreol languages, which develop from pidgin languages after one generation*, tend to develop a system of perfective vs. imperfective verbs just like Russian has, even if the languages which were parents to the pidgin don't have that feature. That means such a feature seems to be part of the innate grammar we are all born with. Well, the way I am having a hard time with Russian perfective verbs shows me I have not retained that talent from childhood.  ::  
* Does that need some explaining? Don't want to wast more off-topic space if everyone knows what that means.

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## rockzmom

> kreol languages

 hehehe, the only place I have heard Creole (as us American's spell it) is in Florida!

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## bitpicker

In that case it's a specific language, but it is also a linguistic term for a type of language. A pidgin language is what people use who have different native languages but are forced to communicate. During the time of slavery and colonization it happened quite a lot in various places of the world. There were the languages of the various slaves or subjugated people, and the language of the 'masters'. Invariably, the pidgin created from such languages is relatively free of grammatical structure. Pidgin is the word for such a language, which borrows words from all the various languages but usually has no discernible grammatical patterns all speakers of this language share. 
However, speakers of pidgin have children eventually, and among them grammar spontaneously comes into being. They structurize the pidgin spoken and instinctively give it common features and patterns which form a grammar. The pidgin language becomes a creole language.

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## ekaterinak

Rockzmom, Bitpicker, of course, you are right when you are speaking about the conditions of learning. I suppose, if detach a person from the conditions, then  a success of  learning of languages depends on two ingredients. 
The first is your aptitude (your memory, memory, memory and a bit of logical thinking). It is 20% of the success. 
The second is your willpower. It is 20%.
 Of course, it is not all. The rest are the conditions.
The third is a talented teacher. (this person have to find the best way to your mind. He/She have to choose the right method of teaching for you. This ability is a talent. Not all teachers have one! I know a Russian person who knows English very well, but she cannot explain, and don’t like do the explanation). Instead of or in addition to the teacher are text-books. It is 30% .
The fourth is practice. It is 30%. (The living in foreign country it is the best way of practice  ::  )
I know that *the numerical values are very roughly*. Just, when we learn own languages we have the best ways of all these components.  But anyway, every of us have memory and a bit of logical thinking.  ::   So every of us have the aptitude.   ::   But the another components nobody can cancel  ::

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## bitpicker

I think it is different for every learner. Each needs to find his or her perferred way or learning. I, for instance, don't have much use for a teacher or standard teaching material such as flash cards, exercises etc.  
First and foremost I need to have some reason to learn. This does not only apply to languages, but when it comes to language, the reason I really learned English was because it was so incredibly useful, not because I had to learn it in school anyway. The music I liked was in English, the books I liked were written in English originally, the movies I liked were in English, the role-playing games I liked to play were often available only in English... It was pretty obvious to me even back then that knowing this language would be very useful. 
I failed to learn Dutch and French as an adult, even though I tried, precisely because I lacked a real reason to learn the languages. Dutch isn't far enough from German to make it impossible to understand, though understanding spoken Dutch is quite hard. You can handle French texts if you had Latin at school, even if you were the worst student in class, which I was - and I have little use for French as a means of transporting culture (French novels, music don't interest me). 
Now Russian is a whole other kettle of fish. I'm learning it because it is a challenge, which is a reason all on its own, but also because I'd love to be able to read Ночной дозор and other modern Russian fantastic literature in the original one day. There are quite a number of native speakers of Russian in Germany (3 million or so), and I have Russian-speaking neighbours the sons of whom are the same age and go to the same school as mine. We get invited to their family celebrations, and the language spoken there is Russian, most of the time. So I see a reason to learn the language, and these eight months of doing so I think I have come quite far; farther than if I had just visited a course in any case. I am already reading a novel in Russian, though not a fantastic one, and never without a dictionary nearby. 
I probably have some aptitude for languages, after all, I studied English and German at university; but of course it is hard to assess one's own talent, as you never have a chance to understand how easy or hard learning a language is for someone else. 
I follow a German podcast on learning Russian, I think this was very important for the basics. I am also in e-mail conversation with a couple of friends, which is at least partly in Russian. All in all, my approach is immersion and learning by doing rather than following exercises or trying to memorize rules or words. 
Robin

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## ekaterinak

I did an exercise to study a using of follow English structure *Verb + preposition + -ing*
I met there sentences like that “The rain did not stop us from enjoying our holiday.”
Word for word translation into Russian is very bulky.  __________________________________________________  ______________ (Attention. When I say ‘word for word translation’ I mean that I take into account tenses, parts of speech (verb, noun, participle, adverbial participle and so on) and their form (case, conjugation and so on). Result of it is not a set of words!!!.) 
__________________________________________________  ______________
It is  _Дождь не остановил нас от наслаждения нашим отпуском_.
The Russians don’t speak like that. 
If I wanted to say about it (I’m native Russian speaker) I would use other structure. It is *The rain did not damage of our enjoying from holiday. *   _Дождь не испортил нам удовольствие от отпуска._ 
One more example  “Nobody suspected the general of being a spy”
Word for word translation into Russian is _Никто подозревал генерала в бытии шпиона._ 
To use a “быть шпионом” in genitive case of Russia languages is unmanageable even for me  ::   I think this form don’t exist in Russian at all.  ::   We don’t speak like that in Russian In this situation we use double negation and noun «шпионаж» So it is *Никто не подозревал генерала в шпионаже.* 
I feel it offers difficulty.   ::  Especially from English into Russian translations.

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## bitpicker

It is no different if you translate English or Russian to German or the other way round. There are many things which you can translate word for word but the result isn't a normal sentence in the other language. The progressive form (English -ing) doesn't even exist in German at all (nor does it in Russian). Neither English nor German have perfective verbs; neither English nor Russian have a subjunctive form quite like German, nor quite the same ability to concatenate words to form new ones. 
And that's just three languages with (in the case of Russian, relatively remote) family ties. It gets worse if you look at non-Indo-European languages. For instance, in spoken Japanese the gender of the speaker is very important, the language is permeated with manners of expression and even words which only women or only men use. Imagine the difference of Russian сказал / сказала were present in every facet of Russian speech. 
Different languages are so much more than just different words. And it is incredibly hard to attain a level of mastery where you sound like a native speaker of a 2nd language, even if you know all the rules of the language by heart. 
Robin

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## rockzmom

> And it is incredibly hard to attain a level of mastery where you sound like a native speaker of a 2nd language, even if you know all the rules of the language by heart.

 I agree with Robin about knowing the rules and sounding like a native. There are many different levels of mastery. 
One of the reasons I came on this forum was so Dmitri could sound like a native. If you remember the types of questions that I ask on this forum... they are all questions that only native speakers know the answers to! And in many of my postings I try to give hints about how "real" Americans speak and explain why I say things or write things the way I do and how I don't follow the "rules" of proper grammar. I speak in run-on sentences all the time, as do all Americans. If I ever want to send my book to a publisher, I will need an editor BEFORE I send it out! Maybe I should post the entire thing on this forum and have ya' all correct the entire thing as an exercise in proper English grammar!   ::   
As for my girls, they actually have what is called "radio Spanish." Their spoken Spanish has little to no American influenced accent to it. Here in the states, many kids speak perfect Spanish; yet, their spoken Spanish has a harsh New York or New Jersey accent to it (or an accent from where ever they happen to live) which is not good at all for commercials, tv or films. So, to a true native, say from Spain, they come across as if they speak it like a native, yet sound like a foreigner. And as a side note, many of the kids can't read or write. They can only speak and understand.

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## ekaterinak

> It is no different if you translate English or Russian to German or the other way round. There are many things which you can translate word for word but the result isn't a normal sentence in the other language. The progressive form (English -ing) doesn't even exist in German at all (nor does it in Russian). Neither English nor German have perfective verbs; neither English nor Russian have a subjunctive form quite like German, nor quite the same ability to concatenate words to form new ones.

 In Russian the English form *verb+ing* according to 
1.adjectival participles / *действительные причастие*
A reading girl *Читающая* девочка 
2. noun formed from a verb / *отглагольное существительное* (it is like English Gerund) 
I like reading. 
Я люблю *чтение* (also you can translate it as ‘Я люблю читать’, but if you make exact grammatical translate, it will be ‘Я люблю чтение’. When I said ‘Word for word translation’ (see my preceding post) I meant situations like this)  
3.imperfective verb (like English continuous verb) / *глагол несовершенного вида*
when she was reading a book ……
Когда она *читала* книгу ….  *I hope this little explanation will be able to help to persons which are learning Russian.*   ::

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## bitpicker

Of course you can translate anything, but (the gerund notwithstanding) as you can see Russian needs two entirely different verb forms to express the progressive aspect of the English verb, depending on grammatical context. We can express the idea in German, as well, but we need additional words for it. 
Every idea can be expressed in every language that there is. But languages can differ in what they do to achive that. For instance, let's say you were telling mewhat a female physician said to you yesterday. In Russian, the word врач is used, but I do learn the gender of the doctor from the verb, at least in past tense. In German, the noun for the profession 'Ärztin' has a female marker -in and an umlaut (as opposed to male 'Arzt'), telling me you are talking about a female physician. In English, I have to wait until you use a pronoun to refer to the physician (she, her). I have frequently noticed that the gender of a person in an English novel may remain elusive for lines and whole paragraphs until a pronoun at last clears it up. All three languages transport the information 'female' somewhere without actually mentioning the fact, but they do it differently. 
Robin

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## ekaterinak

I remember one episode from “The Da Vinci Code” movie. It was somewhere of the finale. Sophie Neveu has known that she is a descendant of Jesus Christ. She is standing near the water and looking at it with reverie. All dangers which were frightening her before are behind. She is cautiously touching the water with her foot. The surface of the water does not hold her, of course. 
Robert Langdon is coming to her and seeing her action. He asks her: ‘What are you trying to do?”.
She replies with a slightly smiling: ‘Oh… I’ve just remembered that HE could to walk on the surface of water as on the ground. I’ve tried to repeat this thing. I could not’
This episode is loved by me. It is so simple and the same time is so thoughtful. 
We have one song in Russia which has been popular. This topic sounds from it too. I decided to do the translation of it into English. I have some reason for it. 
The music and the lyric are great. The lyric has so few simple Russian words, but has a huge ocean of meaning. 
This story (about water and Jesus Christ) are well known and so it will be understood by everybody. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogh3GjpS07k
[video:73ah6309]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogh3GjpS07k[/video:73ah6309]  *Прогулки по воде*
by _Nautilus pompilius_ (more information here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus_Pompilius_(band)) 
С причала рыбачил апостол Андрей 
А Спаситель ходил по воде.
И Андрей доставал из воды пескарей,
A Спаситель - погибших людей.
И Андрей закричал: "Я покину причал,
Если ты мне откроешь секрет".
А Спаситель ответил: "Спокойно, Андрей,
Никакого секрета здесь нет. 
Видишь там, на горе, возвышается крест?
Под ним десяток солдат. Повиси-ка на нём.
А когда надоест, возвращайся назад,
Гулять по воде, гулять по воде,
Гулять по воде со мной". 
Но, Учитель, на касках блистают рога,
Чёрный ворон кружит над крестом.
Объясни мне сейчас, пожалей дурака,
А распятье оставь на потом.
Онемел Спаситель и топнул в сердцах
По водной глади ногой:
"Ты и верно – дурак!". И Андрей в слезах
побрёл с пескарями домой. 
Видишь там, на горе, возвышается крест.
Под ним десяток солдат. Повиси-ка на нём.
А когда надоест, возвращайся назад,
Гулять по воде, гулять по воде,
Гулять по воде со мной   *To walk on the water* 
The apostle Andrew was catching a fish at a mooring,
And the Savior at the same moment was going on the surface of this river.
And Andrew was taking only some gudgeons from the water,
And the Savior was taking lost people.
And Andrew has cried: "I will leave a mooring,
If you don’t open to me the secret ".
And the Savior answered: "Be quiet, Andrew,
There is not any secret at all in this. 
He asked Andrew: ‘Are you seeing a rising cross on that hill?
There is something like a dozen of soldiers around it. Just hang on cross.
And when you are bored with it, come back to me,
We will walk on the water, walk on the water.
To walk on the water with me". 
He answer: ‘But, Teacher, the horns of the helmets are shining and frightening,
A black raven turns(flies) over the cross.
Explain to me now, regret the fool (me),
And let the crucifixion of mine will be after.’
The Savior has struck dumb with astonishment and stamped his foot in irritation on the surface of the water.
"You are really a fool!". And Andrew burst into tears
And trudged with his gudgeons to home. 
He asked Andrew: ‘Are you seeing a rising cross on that hill?
There is something like a dozen of soldiers around it. Just hang on cross.
And when you are bored with it, come back to me,
We will walk on the water, walk on the water.
To walk on the water with me".  I would be appreciate for help with my English.

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## ekaterinak

It is really difficulties of translations / Вот уж действительно - трудности перевода.   ::   ::   ::  
If you are tired from learning of foreign language a little, read this, It will help to encourage you a lot / Если Вы чуть-чуть подустали от изучения иностранного языка, прочтите это. Поможет приободриться.    ::   ::   
Secretary: - Mr. President, Condoleeza Rice is here to see you.
George B. : - Good, send her in.
Secretary: - Yessir. 
(Hangs up. Condi enters.) 
Condoleeza: - Good morning, Mr. President.
George B. : - Oh Condoleeza, nice to see you. What's happening?
Condoleeza : - Well, Mr. President, I have the report here about the new
leader in China.
George B. : - Great, Condi. Lay it on me.
Condoleeza : - Mr. President, Hu is the new leader of China.
George B. : - Well, that's what I want to know.
Condoleeza : - But that's what I'm telling you, Mr. President.
George B. : - Well, that's what I'm asking you, Condie. Who is the new leader of China?
Condoleeza : - Yes.
George B. : - I mean the fellow's name.
Condoleeza : - Hu.
George B. : - The guy in China.
Condoleeza : - Hu.
George B. : - The new leader of China.
Condoleeza : - Hu.
George B. : - The Chinaman!
Condoleeza : - Hu is leading China, Mr. President.
George B. : - Whaddya' asking me for?
Condoleeza : - I'm telling you Hu is leading China.
George B. : - Well, I'm asking you, Condie. Who is leading China?
Condoleeza : - That's the man's name.
George B. : - That's who's name?
Condoleeza : - Yes. 
(Pause.) 
George B. : - Will you or will you not tell me the name of the new leader of
China?
Condoleeza : - Yes, sir.
George B. : - Yassir? Yassir Arafat is in China? I thought he was in the
Middle East.
Condoleeza : - That's correct.
George B. : - Then who is in China?
Condoleeza : - Yes, sir.
George B. : - Yassir is in China?
Condoleeza : - No, sir.
George B. : - Then who is?
Condoleeza : - Yes, sir.
George B. : - Yassir?
Condoleeza : - No, sir. 
(Pause. Crumples paper) 
George B. : - Condi, you're starting to piss me off now, and it's not 'cause
you're black neither. I need to know the name of the new leader of China. So
why don't you get me the Secretary General of the United Nations on the
phone.
Condoleeza : - Kofi Annan?
George B. : - No, thanks. And Condi, call me George. Stop with that ebonics
crap.
Condoleeza : - You want Kofi?
George B. : - No.
Condoleeza : - You don't want Kofi.
George B. : - No. But now that you mention it, I could use a glass of milk.
And then get me the U.N.
Condoleeza : - Yes, sir.
George B. : - Not Yassir! The guy at the United Nations.
Condoleeza : - Kofi?
George B. : - Milk! Will you please make that call?
Condoleeza : - And call who?
George B. : - Well, who is the guy at the U.N?
Condoleeza : - No, Hu is the guy in China.
George B. : - Will you stay out of China?!
Condoleeza : - Yes, sir.
George B. : - And stay out of the Middle East! Just get me the guy at the
U.N.
Condoleeza : - Kofi.
George B. : - All right! With cream and two sugars. Now get on the phone. 
(Condi picks up the phone.) 
Condoleeza : - Hello. Rice, here.
George B. : - Rice? Good idea. And get a couple of egg rolls, too, Condi.
Maybe we should send some to the guy in China. And the Middle East. Can you
get chinese food in the Middle East? I don't know. 
(Door slam. Música.)

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## bitpicker

That was very funny - I just read it aloud to my colleague.   ::   ::

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## rockzmom

Ahhh, yes. That is a great take off on the old Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First?" Here is a short version of the A&C routine that is done *very well* in Kenetic Typography.
[video:2wa9d31v]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejweI0EQpX8[/video:2wa9d31v]

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## ekaterinak

I know that English language does not have ‘double negation’ grammatical construction.  
In English you say: *They are not going anywhere* 
In Russian we say: *Они никуда не едут* (not like in English: Они не едут куда-то)
For expression of negation English use *1* negation form of words (where), Russian use negation form of words for *2* words (куда, едут).  *I never meet anyone anywhere* *Я никогда никого нигде не встречаю* (not like in English: Я никогда встречаю любого где-нибудь).
For expression of negation English use only *1* negation word (never), Russian use negation form of words for *4* words (когда, кого, где, встречаю).  ________________ 
So if you see in English sentence words like  *Never 
Nobody 
Nothing
Nowhere
No one
None of*
with “*any…*” (like *any*thing, *any*body and so on) or “*any + noun*” you have to use negation form of Russian words in your translation. ________________ 
And one more a slightly smiling thing. 
Look at this in following dialog : 
Петя: Будешь (хочешь) кофе? / Piter: Do you want some coffee?
Катя: Да нет, наверное. / Kate: Yes, I do not, probably.  What did she mean? Did she say ‘Yes’? Maybe she meant ‘No’ or something else    ?????? Actually she meant “*No*”, but she has been hesitating what she has to say ‘Yes’ or ‘No’. 
‘Да нет, наверное’ is soft form of ‘No’. Of course, her answer in English is ‘No, I do not’. 
But maybe she did want to say him the sharp word ‘No’    ::   ::

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## ekaterinak

> Ahhh, yes. That is a great take off on the old Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First?"

 Thank you

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## Ramil

> Of course, her answer in English is ‘No, [s:hopl1tg6]I’m not[/s:hopl1tg6]’.

 I don't   _Well, perhaps I don't_ - if you want to express indecision. 
Look at the modal verb in the question to 'construct' your answer.  *Are* you thirsty? - No, *I'm not*. *Do* you want it? - No, I *don't*. *Have* you met him? - No, I *haven't*. *Would* you do that? - No, I *wouldn't*. 
P.S. And... I'd translated the song's title 'Прогулки по воде' as 'Walking on the water'. 
Something like this:  Andrew the apostle was fishing at a mooring,
And the Savior was walking on the water.
And Andrew was fishing out minnows,
While the Savior was fishing out dead people. 
And Andrew cried out: "I will leave the mooring,
If you [s:hopl1tg6]don’t[/s:hopl1tg6] share this secret with me".
And the Savior answered: "Be quiet, Andrew,
There is no secret at all here. 
You see, there on a hill, is a cross?
And a dozen soldiers nearby. Go, hang there a little.
And when you get bored, come back to me
To walk on the water with me. 
But Teacher, there are shining horns on the helmets
And a black raven circles above the cross.
Would you tell me now, spare the fool, 
And postpone the cricifixion. 
The Savior got numb and stamped his foot on the water in frustration
"You are a fool indeed!" 
And Andrew in tears plodded home with his minnows.

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## rockzmom

> And one more a slightly smiling thing. 
> Look at this in following dialog : 
> Петя: Будешь (хочешь) кофе? / Piter: Do you want some coffee?
> Катя: Да нет, наверное. / Kate: Yes, it is not, probably.  What did she mean? Did she say ‘Yes’? Maybe she meant ‘No’ or something else    ?????? Actually she meant “*No*”, but she has been hesitating what she has to say ‘Yes’ or ‘No’. 
> ‘Да нет, наверное’ is soft form of ‘No’. Of course, her answer in English is ‘No, I’m not’. 
> But maybe she did want to say him the sharp word ‘No’

 ekaterinak,
If I am following your thought process correctly... than in English the same conversation might go like this:
Peter: Do you want some coffee?
Kate: "Thanks, that's okay." or "Thanks, but I'm good." or "No, not right now." 
In the first two, Kate is saying "thank you" which would seem like yes, but she is actually saying no. In the last one, she is saying "no" yet leaving the door open to maybe have some later. BTW, in the second one, the word "but" is often left out when actually speaking. 
Let me know if I missed your point here.   ::

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## ekaterinak

> Originally Posted by ekaterinak  Of course, her answer in English is ‘No, ....   I don't 
> P.S. And... I'd translated the song's title 'Прогулки по воде' as 'Walking on the water'.

 Спасибо, Рамиль.

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## Звездочёт

> Петя: Будешь (хочешь) кофе? / Piter: Do you want some coffee?
> Катя: Да нет, наверное. / Kate: Yes, it is not, probably.  What did she mean? Did she say ‘Yes’? Maybe she meant ‘No’ or something else    ?????? Actually she meant “*No*”, but she has been hesitating what she has to say ‘Yes’ or ‘No’.

 In this case the word «да» does not mean “yes”. It’s like a parenthesis or even an interjection here. Compare with «Да, ну!», «Да брось», «Да я не знаю» etc. In these sentences «да» has no meaning, it’s “a set of sounds”, the way to delay an answer only, but not “yes”. Do not believe Zadornov.  ::

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## ekaterinak

> Do not believe Zadornov.

  I don't either  :: 
Хотя, где-то он прав.  *resume* 
In this case: "Да нет, наверное" - our "Да" expresses a shadow of doubt. It is an indicator of her instantaneous hesitations about "Would I drink coffe?"
This answer sounds less sharp as 
1. "Нет / No"
or 
2. "I don't need coffy / "Не *нужен/надо* мне кофе". 
If we want to say harder "No" than in 1. and 2. we'll say:  
3. "I don't need your coffe at all / "Не *нужен* мне *твой* кофе!",  
Atenntion, our specification in 2. (*нужен/надо*) and 3. (*нужен*, *твой*)  indicates two variants of emotional: either she is annoyed by him (or by his question) or she is bored to have this dialog. 
According to sentenses like:
А: Земля квадратная. / The Earth is square  
Б: *Да* *нет*!!!   / No, it is not!!!    
Our "Да" gives a bit more emotional shade for answer "Нет / No".  It means "What did you say?! It is not be true! / "Да что ты такое говоришь!? Это не может быть правдой!" or more easer with slightly reproach "You are wrong". _______________________ 
So our "Да / Yes" in all these cases does not have the meaning "Yes". It gives emotional only.    ::   
Да здравствует, великий могучий русский язык.   ::

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## bitpicker

> Originally Posted by Звездочёт  Do not believe Zadornov.     I am too

 Supposing you want to agree with the original quote, you should say 'I don't either'. You have to mirror the verb (I have - no you haven't; I must - no you mustn't...), and in negative sentences you have to use 'either' instead of 'too'. 
Robin

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## ekaterinak

> Peter: Do you want some coffee?
> Kate: "Thanks, that's okay." or "Thanks, but I'm good." or "No, not right now." 
> In the first two, Kate is saying "thank you" which would seem like yes, but she is actually saying no. In the last one, she is saying "no" yet leaving the door open to maybe have some later. BTW, in the second one, the word "but" is often left out when actually speaking. 
> Let me know if I missed your point here.

 In your 1. and 2. variants Kate answers about coffe at all, not about her desire (wish) of drinking that coffee.   ::  It is a reason of her "No" in this variants, isn't it? In 3 variant she replays 'Maybe I will drink coffe later'. It is halfway between "No" and "Yes"   ::

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## ekaterinak

> You have to mirror the verb (I have - no you haven't; I must - no you mustn't...), and in negative sentences you have to use 'either' instead of 'too'.
> Robin

 Thank you Robin  ::

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## ekaterinak

The Russian idiom "*на (во) всю Ивановскую*"  the automatic translation is "on the whole Ivanovo"   ::   
Long ago in the Moscow Kremlin there was a square called *Ivanovskaya*. 
The place was often crowded, it was often full of people. They were making bargains, discussing latest news and gossiping here. 
This place was instead of modern radio, TV, newspapers. Public criers proclaimed tsar’s edicts loudly in this square. 
Ivan the Great's bell tower has been standing here too. The thirty bells of it rung on holidays. Like this http://rutube.ru/tracks/1140611.html 
Their sound could be heard very far from here. Russian Language has the expression «на (во) всю Ивановскую» from these days. It means “with all one's might” or “shout at the top of one's voice” or “*to make something public*”.
Btw, everybody can say about this forum that it sounds «*на всю Ивановскую*»/loudly (or something like this "The posts of MR are well-known")  ::   ::

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## ekaterinak

I know that a definition of correct form of Russian verb is a difficult task for foreigners. Believe me, English tenses is not less difficult for us.   ::  But English and Russian languages have one common thing which can make our efforts easier.
I think about infinitive form of Russian and English verbs. 
For example:  *to* draw – рисова*ть*, тяну*ть*, черти*ть* *to* read – чита*ть* *to* write - писа*ть* 
Do you see that English “*to*”*=*Russian ending of verb “*ть*”?
If you remember this property you will be able to create Russian sentences which have two semantic verbs. 
The first of them is the verb “want”. Any next verb after it will have an infinitive form of Russian verb.  For instance:
We want *TO* write and *TO* read. / Мы хотим писа*ТЬ* и чита*ТЬ*. (писать, читать are the infinitive)
I want *TO* read any novels. / Я хочу чита*ТЬ* любые романы. (читать is the infinitive)
They want *TO* buy that house. / Они хотят купи*ТЬ* тот дом. (купить is the infinitive) 
Actually this little crib*** can be used with many other Russian verbs. ***) _If you have two semantic verbs in one sentence, than the second of them is an infinitive of Russian verb._   For instance:
They hate *TO* bite and *TO* fight. / Они ненавидят куса*ТЬ*ся и дра*ТЬ*ся.
We try *TO* leave. / Мы пытаемся уеха*ТЬ*
You plan *TO* pay for this.  / Ты планируешь (за)плати*ТЬ* за это.  _But remember, the crib has some exclusions! It is always correctly for verb “want”._

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## ekaterinak

A continuation of my preceding post. I'd like to tell about 'some exclusions' of the crib. ___________________________ _One of these exclusions is the verb “enjoy”. 
All Russian verbs which are following “enjoy” are a verbal noun/отглагольное существительное in Instrumental case. English language uses gerundive form  too. Please, don’t forget about Instrumental case and your Russian will be ok._   For example: 
I enjoy read*ing*. (not I enjoy *TO*read) – Я наслаждаюсь *чтением* (not Я наслаждаюсь чита*ТЬ*) *Чтение/reading*  is a verbal noun of the verb “читать”. The “*чтением*” is the Instrumental case of it  
I enjoy draw*ing* (not I enjoy *TO* draw) – Я наслаждаюсь *рисованием/черчением*(not Я наслаждаюсь рисова*TЬ*/черти*ТЬ*)  *Рисование/черчение/reading* is a verbal noun of the verb “рисовать/чертить”. The ‘*рисованием/черчением*’ is the Instrumental case of it.

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## FedorV

There is a good book: http://www.kodges.ru/2008/03/16/malyjj- ... a-115.html. In this book explains many of simple rules how to build a different forms of verbs.
it also exists in audio format.

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## ekaterinak

> There is a good book: http://www.kodges.ru/2008/03/16/malyjj- ... a-115.html. In this book explains many of simple rules how to build a different forms of verbs.
> it also exists in audio format.

 Это первый автор, который сумел донести до меня смысл английской грамматики. А Вы знаете что-либо подобное для изучения русского языка?

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## FedorV

Не-а, грамматика в русском меня не интересует, экзамены сданы в школе, все забыто ((

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## ekaterinak

*Lucky Max*  
When I was a child I liked dogs very much. I liked their selflessness, devotion and courage. I had a thought: “It would be great to have such a wonderful friend!” I liked two dog breeds much better than others. These were the German shepherd and the Cocker spaniel. The first seemed to me an ideal bodyguard, and I admired the Cocker spaniels’ beauty and cheerful temperament. It is not easy to have a dog in a big city so my family postponed a purchase of a pet from one year to the next. 
All at once, there was an unforeseen event. One of our friends phoned us and offered a cocker spaniel that was one year old. Its owners were moving into another city and they couldn’t take their dog. The dog would be abandoned on the street. Having discussed the matter, we decided to take in this little dog. I was rejoicing! I thought: “I will be an owner of a dog and it will be the bread of my dream!”
Several days later we brought the dog called Max home. He had intelligent brown eyes, a nose like a small button, fluffy paws, long, soft ears. The color of the dog was light red like the color of gold. In addition, he had a short tail and he could wag it very fast. The tail was as an exact indicator of Max’s mood. When Max was happy he did a little dance on all four paws, and his tail wagged as fast as the wings of a dragonfly. When something alarmed him he stood at attention like a soldier in front of a general, and his tail was still.
Max’s charm did not leave anyone indifferent, and very soon all my neighbors knew my dog by name. Having seen him, strangers said: “What a cheerful doggy! What a gold little dog!” 
I took him on the Moscow subway a couple of times. There was no doubt that he was frightened by unusual noise. But my Max found a witty way out of that situation: he copied the behavior of the passengers around us in a carriage. He jumped up on the passenger’s seat next to me, sat down and looked around proudly. If he had had a newspaper in his front paws he would have seemed a real human. People observing us seemed to be touched by the scene. Children were smiling shyly. The looks of even the grumpiest-looking adults mellowed. I bet that some passengers decided to get a dog. My Max proved that he is a real aristocrat!  
Actually, Cocker spaniels are real aristocrats! It is one of the oldest hunting breeds. The homeland of ancestors of the dogs is Spain. The breed was created in 15-16th centuries there. The English word ‘spaniel’ was formed by the Spanish word ‘espanol’. so you can read it in the name of the breed even nowadays. 
Though spaniels were breed specially for hunting, there was a period when these dogs were not used as assistants for hunters and were used as a decoration of palaces and castles. It is said that the appearance of Cocker spaniels was the most beautiful in that period.  
Initially, only one breed of  Cocker spaniels existed. It was divided into two breeds in 19th century and difference was based upon weight.
There are three well known kinds of Cocker spaniels in Russia. They are called the English, The American and the Russian Cocker spaniel. 
Modern Cocker spaniels are superb hunter with excellent sense of smell. Obviously, any borders of countries and difficulties of translation are not obstacles for these dogs, so they are very popular all over the world. 
When I look at my dog I think: ‘Well, Hello, my devoted friend is a Spanish aristocrat from England who was born in Russia!’/ Каждый раз, когда я гляжу на свою собаку, мне хочется сказать: "Ну, привет, мой преданный друг - испанский аристократ из Англии, который родился в России!"  I will be grateful for correcting of my English  ::   ::

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## bitpicker

I liked two dog breeds much better th*a*n others. 
so my family postponed a purchase of a pet from one year to *the* next.  
One of our friends phoned us and offered a cocker spaniel that was one *year* old.  *Its* owners were moving into another city  
The dog would be abandoned. 
I will be an owner of a dog and it will be the breed of my dream! 
Several days later we brought the dog called Max (to) home. 
The colour of the dog was light red like *the* colour of gold. 
In addition, *he* had a short tail and he could wag it very fast. 
Though(,) (the breed is hunting) *spaniels were bred specially for hunting*, *there was* a period when these dogs were not used as assistants for hunters 
There are three well known kinds of (the) Cocker spaniels in Russia. 
The names of the kinds are an English, an American and a Russian Cocker spaniel.  -> They are called the English, the ... 
Modern Cocker spaniels are (a) super*b* hunter*s*   *It is o*bvious(,) that any borders of countries and difficulties of translation(s) are no(t) obstacles for these (kinds of) dogs, so they are very popular *all* over the world. Or: Obviously, any borders... 
The text is very good! 
Robin

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## vox05

> The colour of the dog was light red...
> ... and very soon all my neighbors knew my dog by name.

 Either color (en-us for the entire text) or neighbour (en-uk).

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## ekaterinak

Thank you very much Robin, for correcting of my English. Очень признательна!   ::     

> Either color (en-us for the entire text) or neighbour (en-uk).

 Thank you for the remark. I looked at my dictionary and chose US variant, because I think that grammar of US English is easier than British.   ::  Though, British pronunciation is more understandable for me.  ::

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## ekaterinak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRnNMsfLyPI *"As I sat sadly by her side"* 
by _N.cave_ 
As I sat sadly by her side
At the window, through the glass
She stroked a kitten in her lap
And we watched the world as it fell past
Softly she spoke these words to me
And with brand new eyes, open wide
We pressed our faces to the glass
As I sat sadly by her side 
She said, "Father, mother, sister, brother,
Uncle, aunt, nephew, niece,
Soldier, sailor, physician, labourer,
Actor, scientist, mechanic, priest
Earth and moon and sun and stars
Planets and comets with tails blazing
All are there forever falling
Falling lovely and amazing" 
Then she smiled and turned to me
And waited for me to reply
Her hair was falling down her shoulders
As I sat sadly by her side 
As I sat sadly by her side
The kitten she did gently pass
Over to me and again we pressed
Our different faces to the glass
"That may be very well", I said
"But watch the one falling in the street
See him gesture to his neighbours
See him trampled beneath their feet
All outward motion connects to nothing
For each is concerned with their immediate need
Witness the man reaching up from the gutter
See the other one stumbling on who can not see" 
With trembling hand I turned toward her
And pushed the hair out of her eyes
The kitten jumped back to her lap
As I sat sadly by her side 
Then she drew the curtains down
And said, "When will you ever learn
That what happens there beyond the glass
Is simply none of your concern?
God has given you but one heart
You are not a home for the hearts of your brothers 
And God does not care for your benevolence
Anymore than he cares for the lack of it in others
Nor does he care for you to sit
At windows in judgement of the world He created
While sorrows pile up around you
Ugly, useless and over-inflated" 
At which she turned her head away
Great tears leaping from her eyes
I could not wipe the smile from my face
As I sat sadly by her side  I think about this song something like that: 
All of us try to find their own way. This journey is hard and we must remember that any road starts with the short first step. The road could be easier if we did not forget to help each other. If somebody cannot help it means that he or she is still standing in front of her or his first step, thinking that they are masters already. Those persons who reproach as if they were the judges are weak. It is because to make talking is easier than doing something. 
It exists in the world. One part of people thinks like that women; another part thinks like that man. The first part is too pragmatic (almost as a cynic); the second part is too out of touch with realities. And both of them are blind and doing nothing, because all what they need is their immediate needs.
The heroes of the song do only one important and right thing to each other. They force to change their blind points of view to see more than they can see now. Maybe it is their first step to become better.  
I suppose that the song is the questions: “What should people do? What can people do? Who are right or wrong? Why are they wrong? Why are they right? What are they right or wrong in? Where is the truth? And so on like these”
I did my own interpretation of the song in Russian. 
My heroes are arguing as well. The man is too self-confident. He says that there are no miracles in this world. The women cannot disagree with him, but she cannot believe in his point of view. She is too out of touch with realities. Man’s logic is something like that: “Look! It is a coin and it has only two sides. If I throw it on the ground, you will see only one of them. It is the fact!” Then he threw the coin. He was sure that either one side of the coin would be or another. But the coin chose the third way. There was the edge!  I will be grateful for correcting of my English  ::   ::    *Ребро** _o том, что делают циники и романтики, и что предлагает жизнь_ 
«Мир черно-белый,
В нем нет радуги!» –
Я спорил с тобою
Об этом до хрипоты.
В том споре ты выдавала на руки
Причины своей правоты. 
Я думал тогда…
Нет! Мне казалось…
Что аргументы мои хороши.
«Смотри,» – я сказал: 
«Вот монета,
В ней только две стороны:
Куда не подкинь – 
Иль «янь», или «инь»». 
Твой голос дрожал:
«Нет! Я не верю!» – воскликнула:
«Что небо бывает только цвета земли!»
Я кинул монету в окно, 
Уверенный, что не проиграл.
Глядел на тебя – потерянную,
И улыбаясь, ждал. 
Мгновение – жребий решен:
Та монетка 
Покружила по улице и замерла. 
После чего – оба,
Растерянно, мы глядели в окно…
Вы – не поверите!.. 
Там было – ребро!  _10-11 октября 2009 г.
by Katerina K._ _________________________________
* ) Put question point-blank = Ставить вопрос *ребро*м   ::   ::   ::

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## ekaterinak

The movie “*Russian translation*” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian...28TV_series%29 ) was created thanks to a book “Journalist” by Andreij Konstantinow (the real name is Andreij Baconin). The book was published in 1996 and it is based on a real story. Some facts of the book happened with the author of the book who was working during 1984-1991 as a translator. His working years included a period when he was working in Yemen and Libya. 
The main hero of the movie is a young translator, Andrey Obnorskij. In 1985, he was sent to the Aden (the capital of Yemen) for his Arabic language practice. This year was the last year of his studying at the university. The hero met with the complex situations there. The reason of them was the fact that Yemen was on the brink of a war. After several years he was sent into another country, Libya. And there he found himself in the center of an another war conflict again. 
In spite of the fact that movie describes events which is close to policy I would say that mostly the movie is about a human life and feelings which a decent person can have living in the hard time.  
One of the first scenes of the movie begins with the attempt of the hero to speak in Arabic with an Arab man at the Aden airport. And the hero was not understood at all. His speech sounded strange at least! It was like that because he was learning the Literary Arabic language which is not equal to many of spoken varieties of Arabic. Of course some his practice removed this error.
The original scenario had not had any dialogs in Arabic. But the director of the movie decided that his movie would be brighter and closer to the real events with using the language. It was supposed that phrases of the scenario would be translated into Arabic and then they would be written down (???transliterated???) by Russian letters. And those texts would be memorized and reproduced by the Russian actors. It was a difficult task, of course. And the consultants, war translators had a very difficult question: which spoken varieties of Arabic did they have to use?  ::   ::  
Inhabitants of each Arab country, city, and region speak in their own spoken dialect. These dialects differ from one territory to another. They look like kindred but almost independent languages which don’t have own writing form. 
As a result they selected a variety of the language which the Arabic East had in those years. And as the hero was improving his skills inside of the movie story his language was changing as well. The variety of the Arabic language which was used in the movie has a Palestine dialect accent. 
The Arabic language was used in the movie so often that it would be correct to say that Arabic became one of the main hero of the movie as well. 
And there were some curious facts which are connected with the movie.  ::  
Having read the scenario, the government of Libya didn’t allow making a movie in Libya. 
Yemen government invited the team of the movie very much but as the situation in Yemen was not safe the part of movie was making in Tunisia.  
The music for the movie was created by Igor Korneljuk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Kornelyuk ). He used an oriental style for the music. I have to mention that some years ago he performed songs as a singer and he was pretty popular in Russia. Now he often works like a compositor. 
The music for the movie was so good that the invited consultant who was an Arab asked the director to record this wonderful music for him. And the consultant was extremely astonished when he learned that the music had been created by the person who is very far from oriental culture. (http://www.korneluk.ru/kino.php ).  ::  
Among the movie music is a song which you can hear with the subtitles in the beginning of the movie. It is a rap and it was the first Korneljuk’s rap experience.  
The song is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrXy5...eature=related  *The letter  / Письмо*  _music by Igor Korneljuk
words by R.Lisits
Performance by Pavel Ostroumov & Nina Vedenina_ 
Я приеду, я приеду, я приеду домой
И расскажу тебе всё на свете.
Но когда это будет: зимой, весной?
Мне никто не ответит. 
Думал, скоро вернусь, 
Боюсь, что это не светит.
Ничего, я держусь, но очень жарко,
И ветер обжигает висок.
Я ненавижу пустыню – этот жёлтый песок.
Он никогда не остынет! 
Ни мозги, ни тела не могут выдержать это.
Вот такие дела. Такое вечное лето!  
Это ладно, а тут недавно, 
Самолёты кружили и непонятно, главное,
Где свои, где чужие.
Спасибо, кто-то сказал:
«Парень, не делай резких движений»
Я-то раньше не знал, что люди – просто мишени.
Да… пока не забыл, моё здоровье в порядке.
Я всегда говорил, всё будет тихо, мирно и гладко.
Я всё смогу. Я – такой! Тебе не надо бояться
Тебе нужен покой, (тебе нельзя) тебе нельзя волноваться.  _Припев:_
По небу кружит листопад,
(По небу кружит листопад).
И разве кто-то виноват,
(И разве кто-то виноват),
Что ты оставил уходя
(Другие сны), другие сны
(Под шум дождя), под шум дождя
Ложатся капли на стекло
(Ложатся капли на стекло)
И лишь одно произошло
(И лишь одно произошло)
Что на излёте сентября
(Я вижу сны), я вижу сны
(Не про тебя), не про тебя. 
Сегодня третье число
Всё хорошо, я – везучий.
К тому же, время прошло,
Оно любого научит
Ни о чём не жалеть, 
Иначе туго придётся,
И никогда не смотреть
На раскалённое солнце.
Иногда самолёты пролетают над нами,
И тогда, сразу, кто-то вспоминает о маме.
Я уже не из тех, кто сейчас падает первый,
Но вообще-то у всех, у нас, натянуты нервы.
Привыкать привыкаю думать и дышать по-другому,
Но скучаю безумно по тебе и по дому.
Это – обычный синдром 
По вечерам, на закате
Ушел бы, к чёрту, пешком,
Да только силы не хватит.
Моё второе письмо 
Вчера вернулось обратно,
Может, всё – ничего,
А может, что-то – неладно.
Невозможно понять,
Что это всё означает:
На конверте печать – 
”Такие не проживают”  _Припев:_
(…) 
Я приеду, я приеду, я приеду домой…  *In English* 
I will come, I’ll come, I’ll come home
And tell to you all.
But when will it happen: in winter, spring?
Nobody will give an answer  
I’ve thought I would be back soon,
But I’m afraid it will not promise to be like that.
I’m ok I don’t loose a hope, but it is very hot here
And wind scorches the temple.
I hate a desert, this yellow sand!
It’ll never get cold!
Neither brains nor bodies can bear this.
It’s my life here. It’s such an eternal summer! 
It doesn’t important. Recently
Plans were circling in sky over us and it was fairly incomprehensible
Which ones were ours and which were enemies’.
Thanks to anyone who told me:
“Guy don’t make any jerk”
I had not known before that people are targets.
And till I don’t forget to tell you I say “I’m well”
I have always said everything would be quite, peaceful and ok.
I will do everything. I’m such a courageous man! You don’t have to fear.
You need quiescence, you don’t have to worry.  _Refrain:_
Fallen leaves are circling in the sky
(Fallen leaves are circling in the sky)
And is somebody guilty,
(And is somebody guilty)
That when you was coming away  you left 
(The other dreams) the other dreams 
(Under rain noise) under rain noise?
Drops are falling on the glass
(Drops are falling on the glass) 
And only one thing has happened
(And only one thing has happened)
That by the end of the September
(I see dream pictures) I see dream pictures
(Which don’t have you) which don’t have you. 
Today is third day.
Everything is good, I’m lucky.
In addition the time flew by
Which teaches anyone
Not to regret anything
Otherwise you will have difficulties,
And never to look at
The incandescent sun.
Sometimes plans fly over us
And then, at once someone recall his mother.
I am not already among those who fall down first being smote to deaf.
I’m accustoming to be used to think and breathe in another way.
But I miss you and the house terribly.
It is a usual syndrome:
Each evening, at sunset
To have a wish to walk away
But I know that I will not have power enough.
My second letter 
Returned yesterday.
Maybe you are ok,
And maybe something is bad.
It is impossible to understand
What all of it means:
There is a stamp with the inscription
On the envelope:
“Such persons don’t live here”  _Refrain:_
(…) 
I will come, I’ll come, I’ll come home…   ::  I will be very much obliged for correcting of my English  ::

----------


## Seraph

This song in English has some difficulties. 
And so I did an interpretation of it, to try and make sense of what is going on in the life of the protagonist in the song. 
And this is something like in vernacular English.  I hope this makes some sense to you, and anyone reading it.  It's like I repainted the picture a little.  So it's not exactly literal. 
In English. 
I will return.  I’ll come, I’m coming home.  
To tell you everything.
But when, I ask, in winter or in spring?
I cannot say. 
I thought I’d be back before now.
But it doesn’t look like I’ll be back soon.
I’m well, I still have hope, but it’s very hot here.
And the wind scorches the temple.
I hate this desert, its endless yellow sand.
It never cools off.
Neither body nor soul can bear this.
This is my life here.  It is eternal summer.
Those are just passing details though.
Recently, planes circled over us in the sky.
It was impossible to tell which were ours and which were enemy.
I’m still breathing, thanks to the fellow that said, “Man, don’t move a muscle!”
I hadn’t known before that people were their targets.
But I won’t forget to tell you “I’m well”.
I thought everything would be quiet, peaceful, and fine.
I will do all that is set before me.  
And strive to maintain courage, so that you have nothing to fear.
You need peace.  Please don’t worry. 
refrain
Falling leaves circle in the sky.
And someone is to blame.
For when you went away,
You left our dreams dissolved by rain.
Rain falls against my pane.
(Rain falls against my pane.)
Something striking has befallen us
(Something striking has befallen us)
For by September’s end, my dreams were bereft of you,
(my dreams were bereft of you.)  
This is the third day.
Everything is fine, I’m well.
And the time flies by
That teaches all
To regret nothing,
Else you will have pain.
And never look at 
The burning sun.
Occasionally, planes fly passed.
And out of the blue, someone will recall his mother.
I thank my stars I am not among those already struck dead.
This is all so different from how we used to think and feel.
And I miss you and everyone there terribly.
Every day’s the same:
Each evening at sunset
The wish to fly away takes me.
But I know I don’t have the strength.
My second letter to you
Returned yesterday.
Perhaps you are well,
Or perhaps something is wrong.
I cannot tell.
The letter came back with
“Return to sender.  Addressee unknown.” 
Refrain. 
I will return.  I’ll come, I’m coming home.

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## ekaterinak

> And so I did an interpretation of it, to try and make sense of what is going on in the life of the protagonist in the song.
> It's like I repainted the picture a little.  So it's not exactly literal.

 Thank you very much Seraph for your interpretations of the song. I am not a native English speaker but it seems to me that your lines have rhymes. Definitely your translation is an another creation/poem. Thank you very much. It was interesting to read.  ::   ::   
I have just remembered an amusing dialogue which I saw in a book. I don’t remember the name of the book but the book was an autobiography of a translator. The translator described a case which had happened with his daughter.  
The daughter had been talking to somebody: Somebody: Do you know who my favourite poet is? It is Gottfried Benn! The daughter: Do you read his works in German? Somebody: No, I read it in Russian. The daughter: It means that your favourite poet is my father.  ::   ::

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## Seraph

The falling leaves were the dreams and plans falling from the tree that was their love.  And that is why someone was guilty.  Someone killed their love, the tree that was their love.    
The rain fell against his "pane"  I picked pane for this, to sound like pain.  Pain is his window on the world now.

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## ekaterinak

> The falling leaves were the dreams and plans falling from the tree that was their love.  And that is why someone was guilty.  Someone killed their love, the tree that was their love.    
> The rain fell against his "pane"  I picked pane for this, to sound like pain.  Pain is his window on the world now.

 Thank you very mauch Seraph for the comments.  ::  I liked the idea with the words "pane" and "pain" It seems to me that the lines obtained a deeper meaning. Thank you  ::

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## ekaterinak

This song was created by Erkesh Shakeev (Еркеш Шакеев) in 1996 (A’Studio). The song is very popular and it is like that nowadays too. I think the song is above the time. It is sharp and calm at the same time. It is about love and indifference and it is about a hope. 
If you read the words of it you will probably think the song is about a man and a woman. The woman is falling in love with him. The man is not. And he leaved her… it is a usual story of life.
But I am sure the song is about the the hope and the dream. 
She is crying seating next to the window. It is the truth but the reason of it is that she has not met him yet. _She is unloved because they have not met each another yet…_  *Нелюбимая* _группа "А-Студио"_  YouTube - А-Студио - Нелюбимая (1996).flv  Позолоченный след твоей слезы горел в ночи,
Обнимая меня, сказала ты: не уходи.
Зная, что нет моей вины,
Я прошептал тебе: “Прости,
Все пройдет, не грусти, не грусти. ”   Нелюбимая ждет меня у окна
Вечерами темными, как всегда,
У окна ждет меня, ждет меня.   Позабыл о тебе я навсегда, но иногда
Желтых писем листва летит ко мне издалека.
Я не прочту твои слова
И не увижу никогда
Облака горьких слез между строк.   Нелюбимая ждет меня у окна
Вечерами темными, как всегда,
У окна ждет меня, ждет меня.   Я не прочту твои слова
И не увижу никогда
Облака горьких слез между строк.   _in English_   *Unloved *  _by A-Studio_   
  A gold-filled light of your tear was shining through the night
  Embracing me you said “Don’t leave me”
  I knew that it is not my fault
  I whispered to you “forgive me,
Your sorrow will be allayed. Don’t be sorrow, don’t be sorrow” 
  The unloved waits for me next to the window
  When evenings are dark she always waits for me
  It is always. She always waits for me next to the window. 
  I forgot you forever, but sometimes
  Your letters which are like yellow leaves are flying to me from far
  I will not read your words 
  And I will never see 
  Clouds of your bitter tears which are between the lines. 
  The unloved waits for me next to the window
  When evenings are dark she always waits for me
  It is always. She always waits for me next to the window. 
  I will not read your words 
  And I will never see 
  Clouds of your bitter tears which are between the lines.

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