# Forum General General Discussion  The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

## Hanna

*This is a thread about the Police!* 
What do you think about them now versus in the past (regardless of where you live..)  
I think most people agree that violent criminals, thieves and certain other people need to be controlled by the police. But so often, the police overstep the mark!   *Here in England* I have no real negative experience of the police and I must say that they are surprisingly nice when you have to deal with them. Sometimes I find it annoying that they are standing around in the Metro for a silly job like catching people who don't pay... But they are forced to be civil to everyone and they are generally not very intimidating. A lot of the policemen are actually women. They don't actually wear weapons!  I suspect they are a bit racist and that they discriminate against people at the bottom of society. But that does not affect me and I have never actually seen it happen.  
I don't know anything about the *police in the US* other than from TV... If you live there, what's your view and/or experience?   I have heard and read MANY stories now about *police in Russia*; that the police is out of control: taking bribes, stopping innocent people/drivers to demand fines and beating up people they take dislike to. I don't know if it is true or not - a lot of the info about Russia on the web is quite exaggerated. 
What's your view on the above -- true / false, right or wrong?  Are you scared of trouble with the police? Have you had any trouble?  
What about *Ukraine and any other ex-USSR countries*?  
But in Sweden recently the police is getting increasingly unpleasant.. The police tend to be VERY large guys (>2m and bodybuilders..), dressed in uniforms that look like they are from a scary sci-fi thriller. Instead of talking to people in a NORMAL tone of voice like the English police, they  speak with a harsh accusatory tone of voice. When people speak back to them, they get accused of being drunk or under the influence of drugs which means they can be taken to the police station for a test.  Frankly, they are intimidating and people do not really dare to challenge them since they hav the law on their side. However they are not corrupt and there are no SERIOUS miscarriages of justice along the lines of what seems (?) to be happening in Russia.

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## Оля

> they are standing around in the Metro for a silly job like catching people who don't pay...

 Does that happen in England, too???   ::   ::    
Seriously, although I haven't dealt with our police personally, I believe that the info you found on the Internet is true, and I also believe that in the Russian police there is a total chaos as everywhere in Russia. 
P.S. The photo is great.   ::

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## Hanna

Yeah, they do. And the irritating thing about this is 
1) Public transport in London is EXTREMELY expensive and
2) It is also not very good...   So you think:_ "This bloody train is 30 minutes late, but all they care about is making sure I pay my $4 for travelling two stations... "_   ::   
Something interesting is happening in Sweden on this front. People born in the 1970s and 1980s still remember the times when it was almost free to travel on public transport, and the transport was quite good. The quality is the same, but it costs about 4-5 times more to travel. A lot of people want the old system back, whereby the public transport is financed by taxes and the price is symbolic.  
In order to support this, there is a new online movement which supports it politically and informs people how to travel for free, what to do if they are approached by a guard etc. They also have an "insurance policy" which people pay a small fee to. Then if they get caught, they send the fine to the organisation and it gets paid....  
Their site is very funny; this is one of their information videos for getting into the Metro in Stockholm _(getting out is not a problem, the door just opens for everyone)_.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVfkrpjhhmE However, the guy who is jumping over the gate must be very tall. I am tall too (1.7 ::   but I would never try to jump over these gates. He must be at least 1.9m.

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## Vincent Tailors

About 90% of things I read about Russia in the Western media are insanely exaggerated or outright idiotic. Take them with a grain of salt.

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## sperk

> The police tend to be VERY large guys (>2m and bodybuilders..),

 in the past in the US the police had a reputation for liking donuts, now they're all built like linebackers (picture: big and muscular.) There is no culture of corruption, I would never dream of offering a cop a bribe. As far as attitude there is a lot of variance, from complete arrogant asshole to decent. Always remember, a cop is the most powerful person you will meet on the street, so act accordingly.

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## fortheether

In the USA over 30 years ago the motto for many police departments was "Serve and Protect".  Now it seems it should be "Hide and Collect".  I live in the suburbs and the police here instead of cleaning up the bad side of town will be hiding behind bushes in their car in order to write speeding tickets.  Why?  I travel on the Garden State Parkway to go to work and there are days I will see about 10 police cars that have pulled cars over.  Yet there are very bad parts of towns in New Jersey: 
Camden
Newark
Jersey City
Atlantic City
Paterson
Asbury Park 
Why not use the ticket writers to help the folks out in these cities?  
Scott

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## SAn

My friends who were captured by the police told shocking stories to me. Policemen: Plunt drugs on innocent people;[/*:m:g1q970th]Charge people with unsolved crime (to enchance crime solving rate);[/*:m:g1q970th]Violently beat people in a way to not leave marks on the body (and they will not allow relatives to visit victim untill he stops peeing with blood);[/*:m:g1q970th]Take away personal belongings.[/*:m:g1q970th]
And the very distressing part is that the law is always at their side. It is nearly impossible to establish policeman's guilt. Listed cases usually end with bribe given to police in order to release victim, and months of fruitless attempts of the family to «right a wrong». 
Interesting fact is that Moscow policemen are angels compared, for example, with Taganrog policemen. So, do not listen to Moscow citizens—they do not have the full picture of what is going on in Russia. The muscovites can not imagine that one of the profitable job in a town can be steel melting 10 hours a day for 15000 rubles salary ($500/month, such workers usually die when they are under 60). One typical advertisement I have seen in Taganrog: «The cleaner is needed to kindergarten. The salary is 2000 rubles per month». So, policemen have the same low salary as others, and they doing their best to earn additional means.

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## DDT

> But they are forced to be civil to everyone and they are generally not very intimidating. A lot of the policemen are actually women. They don't actually wear weapons!

 I wonder what use these chick coppers without guns can be! I'm sure they just get in the way when there is real trouble. 
 Recently in Sydney Australia two of these "chick coppers" (who actually do carry guns) were beat up by one man. He was just about to take the club off one of the women and finish her off when some of the regular Australian men who were walking by  grabbed him and saved the two women from an even worse fate.  To illustrate how most of these females are unqualified to be a police officer I can relate a  story of one women, who recently graduating from the "academy" which is nothing more than a glorified university campus in Golburn NSW, asked her superior if she "could leave the bullets out of her gun until she needed it" because she felt safer with it unloaded. Another police woman left her male partner alone in time of trouble and went and sat in the squad car and cried. Another chick copper was shot at point-blank range inside a police station.  Her assailant jumped over the counter, grabbed her gun, shot her and then ran away. 
Or how about this one, a S. Australian woman cop was  interviewing  a witness who got angry at her and broke her neck (hauled her over the back of the couch they were sitting on).
She didn't die but soon after returning to work, she cautioned a cyclist for not wearing a helmet and he put her in a headlock and broke her neck a second time. A male police officer had to be called to tear the cyclist off her.  
Or this:  Two female police officers tred to apprehend two females who may have been heroin addicts. They  could not subdue the two. Luckily there were some taxi drivers nearby who put them down on the ground in a matter of seconds.  
The chief of police in the state of NSW (another chick copper) has declared that it is her intention to make the NSW Police 50% female! This means that female police will be working together without the assistance of a male policeman. Most of the male cops that I have talked to think that this is a very bad idea. Most police departments in the USA do not put two women together!

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## Marlow

Johanna,  
The police here in the US are very reasonable. As we don't have a metro or public transportation system in my city, they usually are in patrol cars or in the (very short) summer they sometimes will ride motorcycles or bikes. As long as you aren't doing anything exaggerated they generally don't care... i.e. if you are going 8 mph over the speed limit they rarely will pull you over. However, if your car is full of people who resemble gangsters and you are driving somewhat erratically at late hours, then you might worry. But they never really use excessive force and like sperk (i think) said previously, I would never even fathom trying to bribe a cop. They get paid reasonably well here, starting at 50,000 dollars [37,000 euros roughly] per year. I think this is reasonable considering the danger our cops face on a day to day basis because of the fact that most people have guns (both law abiding citizens and criminals), although cops are rarely killed.  
Regarding police in Russia - I don't know, although I myself am studying in St. Petersburg next year, and many Russian expats here whom I've talked to all warn me to avoid cops and to not draw attention to myself.

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## whipback

I don't know about the US, but in my city the police are so bad.  It's not that they are corrupt or intimidating, but THEY DON'T DO THEIR JOB!  Crime has gotten so bad in my city, and I don't even live in a very large city.  We don't have enough police officers, and we do not have enough prisons.  The police are sitting at the stations or in their cars playing on the computer instead of cruising around the streets looking for crime.  The problem is that people just join the police force because of all of the benefits.  They are able to retire at 50 with a huge amounts of money from working over time.  So they don't really care about their job.  The city does seem to try and take a little action.  They hired a helicopter to fly over the city, but that isn't doing anything besides sucking up money.

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## alexB

> I don't know about the US, but in my city the police are so bad.

 And where would that be?
There’s a little word *Location* under your avatar. Wouldn’t it be easier for all of us to know whom we are talking to if you placed your country’s name there?  ::

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## whipback

I live in Omaha, NE.  I guess I never found the need to add my location.  Why would someone need to know where I live in order to know if they are talking to me or not?

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## alexB

For one thing to avoid confusion.
When you said you didn’t know about US it meant you came from elsewhere. Now it turns out you are from US. Do you think it did you a great harm to disclose such a secret?))

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## whipback

Saying I don't know about the US doesn't mean I don't live in the US(????).  I'm just saying that different parts of the country work differently so I can only speak for my city.  If I would have said all the police in the US don't do their jobs I would have gotten a million people telling me I am wrong.

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## Ленивец

> ...

 Since the thread is about the police in different places of the world, your answer without any info where you live naturally makes people wonder what place you mean. That's not about getting personal data.

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## sperk

> Originally Posted by whipback  ...   Since the thread is about the police in different places of the world, your answer without any info where you live naturally makes people wonder what place you mean. That's not about getting personal data.

 not to mention the fact that you said you don't know about the US (implying some secret, mystery location)...then later reveal that you live there???!!!

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## gRomoZeka

I think that the horror of Russian/post-Soviet police is slightly eggagerated. Granted I am a girl, and thus I have a very minor chance to be assaulted by the police, but still... 
In my life I had only three direct encounters with police, and only one of them was negative. 
Twice I was interviewed as a potential witness (about a rape and a murder victim). Both times I didn't know anything and was absolutely useless (the kind of annoying witness who says: "Wait! I think I remembered something.. Ah, no. I got it wrong). Nevetheless the police officers were very polite and patient. 
The third time I was assaulted by some man who flashed his ID at me and accused me of drug trafficking (I was near a rail station and had a carton box with me). Then he dragged me (literally) to the nearby deserted alley, where it was so dark that I could hardly see his face. Considering that he looked like a crazed maniak, practically foaming at the mouth, I was beginning to wonder if I should cry for help, before he tried to kill me or something. 
To make the long story short, he threatened a lot (and got indignant when I said that I didn't know what the abbreviation in his ID means  ::  ), I tried to reason with him in that calm manner you reserve for dangerous loonies, then he thrashed my box (from pure spite, I think), and we parted our ways. I was unharmed, if a little shaken, I did not give him any money, and the only things that I lost were three smashed pears (there were fruits in the box). 
So.. it was not so bad, really.   ::   
Ok, it's only a single instance, but I wanted to contribute.  )))

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## whipback

> Originally Posted by Ленивец        Originally Posted by whipback  ...   Since the thread is about the police in different places of the world, your answer without any info where you live naturally makes people wonder what place you mean. That's not about getting personal data.   not to mention the fact that you said you don't know about the US (implying some secret, mystery location)...then later reveal that you live there???!!!

  I don't know if you didn't read my last post or what, but because I said I didn't know about US doesn't imply anything about me living somewhere else(I meant that I didn't know about the rest of the US).  It would make sense if I had said something like "I don't know about the US, but in my country" but it doesn't make sense to randomly say you don't know about a country and then start talking about your city.  It really isn't as big of a deal as you guys are making it.  You know where I live now so there is no point in arguing about it.

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## Hanna

_No worries Whiplack, you clearly meant to say "I don't know about the REST of the US" but you accidentally missed the little word "rest". I thought you were Canadian or Australian. But no harm done and it's interesting to "meet" someone who comes from the real heart of the USA. Omaha is just such a funky name for a city. I don't care one bit for Hollywood, Disneyland or the statue of Liberty, but I'd quite like to see the "real" USA, cities such as yours or Rockzmoms. My location also looks "mysterious" at the moment. I put EU but I am Swedish temporarily living in London (UK)._    *@Gromozeka, what a crazy experience!!!  *  What was the ID that the man showed? How bizarre!  
I'm lucky that nothing really bad ever happened to me. Just the usual things that happen to most women at some point in life: Some man behaving strangely, exposing himelf (happened to me in the metro in Stockholm), someone "shadowed" me once when I was walking home, late at night. Really spooke because the streets were empty. But nothing happened, I just ran in through the front door and slammed it and made sure it was locked. It was a block of flats. Another time a gang of girls tried to rob me of my wallet, here in England. But I could tell they were not fit, so I just ran away from them! I am tall and run fast for a woman.  (Just one more reason why it's insane to walk around in high heels - you can't protect yourself or run away from dangerous situations in heels!)

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## Medved

> My friends who were captured by the police told shocking stories to me. Policemen: 
>     * Plunt drugs on innocent people;
>     * Charge people with unsolved crime (to enchance crime solving rate);
>     * Violently beat people in a way to not leave marks on the body (and they will not allow relatives to visit victim untill he stops peeing with blood);
>     * Take away personal belongings. 
> And the very distressing part is that the law is always at their side. It is nearly impossible to establish policeman's guilt. Listed cases usually end with bribe given to police in order to release victim, and months of fruitless attempts of the family to «right a wrong». 
> Interesting fact is that Moscow policemen are angels compared, for example, with Taganrog policemen. So, do not listen to Moscow citizens—they do not have the full picture of what is going on in Russia. The muscovites can not imagine that one of the profitable job in a town can be steel melting 10 hours a day for 15000 rubles salary ($500/month, such workers usually die when they are under 60). One typical advertisement I have seen in Taganrog: «The cleaner is needed to kindergarten. The salary is 2000 rubles per month». So, policemen have the same low salary as others, and they doing their best to earn additional means.

 +1 
I can't talk for the rest of Russia, but here in province things are bad. 
People here in province can be divided on 3 categories:
1. Top (politicans, well known rich business-men, top managers/directors of various communal service departments (including police), etc.)
2. Middle (educated well enough, such as enterpreneurs with a tiny business, managers of various departments/trade enterprises, jurists etc.)
3. Bottom. (People who just live their lives. Usual people, who earn $1500-7000 PER YEAR! and they're not able to "fight for themselves") 
I'm not sure about "fight for themselves" (постоять за себя), I mean it not in physical but relative to the topic (if a policeman tries to do something wrong to such person). They have no powerful support as friends/relatieves from 1-2 categories and they are defenceless for both police and criminals. 
Next:
There are various types of police (милиция btw) here in Russia.
1. Criminal police
2. Road police
Criminal police has many departments like economy crimes, patrolling, inquest, investigation, struggle against organized crime, etc. 
Okay, next: Street police officers perfectly differ people belonging to above categories and behave themselves accordingly.  
Situation: a man from cat.1 fights an old women from cat.3.
Result: If she's not in a hospital, she is in a police department like "she started beating him up". He is free anyway. If she's in a hospital, then "the criminal wasn't found". 
You can meet only 2 of them on Russian streets: (ППС и ДПС) - patrols and road police. (If you won't catch the "luck" to be in a plane with terrorists  :: . Then you will meet "spetsnaz"  ::  ) 
Road police: They're good enough. Although they take bribes sometimes, it's not bad, because what would you prefer - to pay $40 or to let your driver license to be taken off for a 1-1.5 years. If you don't break rules, they can stop you, check documents, explore your car, and let you go if everything's okay. 
Patrol one: Same situation, but it's better to not attract their attention with huge bags, loud speaking, suspicious behaviour etc. Otherwise you're at risk to spend the night in a police department. 
Well, that's probably all, and of course, "I don't like very much to stay uncorrected".

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## whipback

> _No worries Whiplack, you clearly meant to say "I don't know about the REST of the US" but you accidentally missed the little word "rest". I thought you were Canadian or Australian. But no harm done and it's interesting to "meet" someone who comes from the real heart of the USA. Omaha is just such a funky name for a city. I don't care one bit for Hollywood, Disneyland or the statue of Liberty, but I'd quite like to see the "real" USA, cities such as yours or Rockzmoms. My location also looks "mysterious" at the moment. I put EU but I am Swedish temporarily living in London (UK)._

   Thank you for being so understanding.  I believe Omaha is named after the Omaha tribe that settled in north-east Nebraska/north-west Iowa who still reside their on a Native American Reservation.  Ever since I have learned that, I've wanted to learn the Omaha language.  Omaha is a good city, especially for looking into the past.  Our only problems are our crime, and that our city is in debt.  Once we get over those two problems we will be set.

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## Medved

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2H37rWn1TU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKl5f8JSqsw

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## Ramil

> There are various types of police (милиция btw) here in Russia.
> 1. Criminal police
> 2. Road police

 3. OMON (Russian S.W.A.T. + Anti-riot team) - they will hit you with their batons first and only then ask for documents  ::  People call their batons 'Демократизатор' (democratizer).

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## Trzeci_Wymiar

I have a lot of contact with the police (I'm a clerk - in between schooling right now). 
Sometimes, the police in the US are not so good:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjpOsGYxMo 
It depends on the person, the department, the city, probably even down to the precinct and such. Every level. It simply depends. 
Some cities are notorious for unethical policing, generally larger cities (Chicago, LA, NYC). 
But every police department has a few wackos and dirty cops for every ten ethical ones. 
The system in the US, though, is, on the whole, not as flowery as people would have you believe - sure, it may be that cop culture in the US is more ethically minded than in other parts of the world, but it has many shortcomings. 
I was talking about this with my girlfriend today, as a matter of fact. There are cops on my "beat," in the neighborhood I work in, who turn a blind eye to things depending on whether they feel like dealing with them. They will disproportionately go after the easier targets, such as junkies, ignoring bigger criminal blights on the neighborhood. Others will turn a blind eye to "vigilante" justice if it suits their purpose. Others lazily enforce the law. But still some of them are truly hardworking and concerned about the state of the neighborhood and the people in it. 
Here is a general picture of the types of cop I see every day in Tucson at the convenience store I work at: 
1. Cops in squad cars - regular beat cops, the "grunts"
2. Cops on bicycles - they have somewhat of an inferiority complex. They are truly the meanest of the cops I've met.
3. Cops on motorcycles - generally only handle traffic-related offenses; they wear those weird horse-riding boots
4. Foot patrol - not actually "on foot," they generally sit around in highly populated areas in these weird little golf carts
5. K-9 Cops - Cops who have specially trained dogs with them, and wear special patches showing their detail, generally wearing olive-drab cammies
6. Detectives - I generally see people from homicide; they dress in white shirts and khakis, generally, wearing a gun and a badge.
7. Undercover cops - Technically they are "undercover," mostly narcotics divisions, but a couple of them have shown me their badge in confidence on account of wanting to use the restroom
8. Cops from neighboring cities - occasionally cops will come down to Tucson on warrants, to pick up fugitives or people wanted in connection to an unsolved crime.
9. Border patrol - a different kind of cop, usually looking for illegal immigrants and drug traffickers 
The cops in the City of South Tucson (an adjoining city) are notoriously crooked...my friend's cousin was a dope dealer, had his drugs stripped of him by South Tucson police. And typically, you would be arrested (possession with intent to distribute is a SERIOUS crime) but these cops let him go, absconded with his crack/cocaine, and allegedly later sold it themselves, or else used it. There have been so many horror stories involving the cops down there ... one of the latest involved a cop who drank an entire "handle" of tequila in his patrol car, and was actually pulled over for drunk driving by another cop. Needless to say he was fired. 
I guess this is what you would call the "Wild West."

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## Basil77

Well, people, Russian police (милиция) isn't so bad (I mean regular guys, who are dealing with criminals every day) considering the enviroment they are working in. A couple of years ago some thieves broke a window in my car and I needed to get a paper from the police to get the insurance. I called the police. Then two guys arrived. They were very polite, did their job very carefully, although there were no witnesses around, they even asked the people from nearby apartment buildings, wich windows were facing the "crime scene"  ::  . It was 4 am, poor people who were woke up by door bell and asked stupid questions if they saw how some thugs broke into the car from their window (they even asked people from the high floors)  :: . A couple of days later I went to the police station to get the paper for insurance company. Militia captain, who wrote me the paper was also very polite, but while I waited at the station during all the formalities were processing, I was shocked by the contingent of people policemen dealing with. Drug addicts, alcoholics, street robbers - the station was full of them  ::  . I rarely meet such personalities in everyday life and these poor guys from the militia are dealing with them everyday, brrr  ::  . But they (the policemen of course) were still very polite and pleasant to me. Of course I had also some unpleasant experiense with Russian police (a couple of cases when I was brought to the police station for drinking vodka in public places in my student years, and bribing the road police), but in whole I think our police (militia) isn't so awful and scary how it's usually shown in media. 
Funny video (Russian police dealing with a hooligan, who is resisting arrest):  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3g2DR-m9Gc 
Another funny video about Russian police:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUYp9tt_8qs

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## Lusya

Russian policemen are corrupted and cruel. Believe me, I know that pretty well, my father was a policeman and I was put on probation.

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## Marlow

Haha Eugene-p, that second video was hilarious! 
I don't understand Russian all that well but i think he was saying "nope, i'm not getting out" and then when the officer asked for his documents, "nope, i'm not giving them." then rolled up the window on him haha.

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## alexB

> 3. OMON (Russian S.W.A.T. + Anti-riot team) - they will hit you with their batons first and only then ask for documents  People call their batons 'Демократизатор' (democratizer).

 Bart: _Can I hold your club?_ 
Officer Lou: _It's not a club it's a baton!_ 
Bart: _What do you use it for?_ 
Officer Lou: _We club people with it. ..._  ::

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## paulb

One way in which the police in the US are different than in most other countries (maybe all other countries???) is the way that they are divided into many different independent levels and jurisdictions. 
At the "highest" level is the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigations). They are highest only in the sense that they cover the whole country. Most people will rarely if ever have anything to do with the FBI because they only deal with "federal" crimes, which are usually things that cross state borders. FBI police are referred to as "agents." 
State police cover each state individually. They handle traffic on the large highways and many of the more serious criminal investigations. State police are referred to as "troopers." 
Each state is divided into counties, and each county has its own police force, known as the sheriff's department, headed by a sheriff. They handle many parks, airports, jails, and land which is not part of a city. County police are referred to as "deputies." 
Cities have their own police force, headed by a police chief. They handle most of the crimes and some emergencies that take place within a city. If you live in a city, these are the police that you are most likely to see. They are the people you call if you see a crime or have some other non-medical emergency. These police are referred to as "officers." 
The real strength of this system is that it is immune to wholesale corruption. While any particular part of it could be corrupted by some wealthy criminals, the various parts are all separate. Thus a criminal group who has paid off the city police could still be caught by state or federal police. 
There are some other police agencies as well (BATF, DEA, alcohol regulating agencies in various states, game wardens, etc.) but the are relatively less important.

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## Ramil

Hmm, I've never thought of it this way but yes, this system appears to be pretty well defended against a 'wholesale' corruption (but nothing prevents a county sheriff to 'organize his private business' somewhere). Still it's a rather good system. I wonder whether it would work in Russia. The authority of the federal government is *VERY* strong for local officials. A governor can simply depose an inconvenient chief of police and assign a 'reasonable man' to this post. As long as the chief of police depends on the local government it wouldn't work, I'm afraid  ::

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## Crocodile

> I wonder whether it would work in Russia.

 There should be at least one reliable, reasonably fair system people could actually appeal to. The US depends on the courts. Russia on the federal executive power. As a result, whoever is closer to that power he has the right. Anything else doesn't matter in practice.

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## kidkboom

I unfortunately have not yet been to Russia and have no experience over there - and my total time in Europe was less than a month so I can only draw inaccurate outlines of the Fraternal Orders in W. Europe - and I couldn't even speak for all of the US (моя родная страна), but in the state of Arizona where I live there is enough corruption to write a book about.  Шериф моего графства - очень развращенного человека по имени Джо Арпэйо.  Они не берут маленькие взятки.  Вместо этого они собирают плату от различных организаций. Они позволяют ограниченные свободы мексиканской организации "coyotes," но только некоторые в группе, не всех.  Арпэйо выиграл выборы неоднократно, но люди фактически не голосуют за него. Много подозреваемых, что он обманывает систему голосования.  Кроме того, его чиновники останавливают автомобили в движении, не из-за подозрения в преступлении, но главным образом из-за появления. Этнические меньшинства, люди, которые, кажется, бедные, люди от недорогого соседства - автомобили этих людей, которых они останавливают только.  Шериф - от итальянской семьи, и имеет связи с мафиозо, корни, которые отбегают к старым семьям преступления Ист-Коста.  Шериф борется против групп, которые защищают права граждан меньшинства. Он изобрел тюрьму, которая хуже чем нормальная Аризонская тюрьма; эту тюрьму называют "Городом Палатки."  Его ненавидят многие в Аризоне, и он боится возмездия. Когда он уезжает домой, он транспортируется в пуленепробиваемом автомобиле.  People in my city do not get pulled over or harassed by cops if they donate to the police force (look up Arizona-born actor David Spade who recently bought automatic rifles for the entire force), or drive an expensive car (which is common but I am not so rich  ::  ). 
Sorry for the ramble and bad Russian - please correct the stuffing out of me, if you like.    ::  
I think because of the systems in place, there is not so much corruption in very small sizes (like individual briberies) or in very large (country-sized) sizes;  but there is a lot, from what I have seen and heard here, on the state level.  Здесь полицейские всегда приносят больше вреда, чем пользы людям.  Мужчины улицы не телефонируют полиции - 'street cats don't call no cops.'    ::

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## kidkboom

@ Trzeci_Wymiar - Tucson?  Are you from AZ too?  Maybe you can back me up on some of this, idk about you but I've seen everything you listed except the 'hardworking and honest' cop....   ::   (Send one of those over to Phx please)   ::

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## Оля

> Шериф моего [s:28f51sgn]графства[/s:28f51sgn] округа - очень развращенный человек_ по имени Джо Арпэйо. Они не берут маленькие взятки.  Вместо этого они собирают плату [s:28f51sgn]от[/s:28f51sgn] с различных организаций. Они [s:28f51sgn]позволяют ограниченные свободы[/s:28f51sgn] _I didn't get this_ мексиканской организации "coyotes," но только некоторым в группе, не всем.  Арпэйо выигрывал выборы неоднократно, [s:28f51sgn]но[/s:28f51sgn] хотя люди [s:28f51sgn]фактически[/s:28f51sgn] на самом деле не голосуют за него. Многие подозревают, что он [s:28f51sgn]обманывает систему голосования[/s:28f51sgn] фальсифицирует / подтасовывает результаты голосования.  Кроме того, его чиновники останавливают автомобили [s:28f51sgn]в движении, не из-за подозрения в преступлении, но главным образом из-за появления. Этнические меньшинства, люди, которые, кажется, бедные, люди от недорогого соседства - автомобили этих людей, которых они останавливают только[/s:28f51sgn] _I didn't get this_.  Шериф - [s:28f51sgn]от[/s:28f51sgn] из итальянской семьи_ и имеет связи с мафиози [s:28f51sgn], корни, которые отбегают к старым семьям преступления Ист-Коста[/s:28f51sgn] и старыми преступными семейными кланами на Восточном побережье. Шериф борется против групп, которые защищают права [s:28f51sgn]граждан меньшинства[/s:28f51sgn] (национальных меньшинств?). Он [s:28f51sgn]изобрел[/s:28f51sgn] завел/учредил тюрьму, которая хуже, чем [s:28f51sgn]нормальная[/s:28f51sgn] обычная аризонская тюрьма (_better: хуже обычной тюрьмы в Аризоне)_; эту тюрьму называют "Городом Палатки."  Его ненавидят многие в Аризоне, и он боится возмездия. Когда он уезжает домой, он [s:28f51sgn]транспортируется[/s:28f51sgn] едет в пуленепробиваемом автомобиле. 
> Здесь полицейские всегда приносят людям больше вреда, чем пользы _ .  [s:28f51sgn]Мужчины улицы не телефонируют полиции[/s:28f51sgn] Люди на улице не звонят в полицию - 'street cats don't call no cops.'

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## CoffeeCup

> Шериф моего графства - очень развращенный человек по имени Джо Арпэйо. Его люди не берут маленькие взятки. Вместо этого они собирают плату с различных организаций. Они могут арестовать людей из мексиканской организации "coyotes," хотя и не всех, а только некоторых из них. Арпэйо выигрывал выборы неоднократно, но люди на самом деле не голосуют за него. Есть много подозрений, что он обманывает систему голосования. Кроме того, его подчиненные останавливают автомобили на дороге, не из-за подозрения в преступлении, а просто так. В основном останавливают машины людей, которые принадлежат к этническим меньшинствам или выглядят бедно или едут из бедных соседних городов. Сам шериф  из итальянской семьи, и имеет связи с мафиозо, корни которых уходят к старым преступным семьям (кланам) восточного побережья. Шериф борется против организаций, которые защищают права меньшинств. Он построил тюрьму, которая хуже чем любая нормальная Аризонская тюрьма; эту тюрьму называют "Городом Палатки." Его ненавидят многие в Аризоне, и он боится возмездия. Когда он едет домой, он едет в пуленепробиваемом автомобиле.

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## kidkboom

::   ::   ::  Thanks Оля and CC... 
'графства / округа' Оля, I meant to say "county," particularly "Maricopa County."  I think I might've missed a subtlety betwixt the two words..  
Sorry for the messy Russian.  I'm very much still learning.  Your corrections are so helpful to me, though, I can't even put it into words - I'll be studying this paragraph for another couple hours.

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## Medved

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2H37rWn1TU
Чувака приговорили условно. Блин. Сажать надо было!!! http://www.pavlovoportal.ru/forum/index ... t&p=165104

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## BappaBa

> Сажать надо было!!!

 За что? Я бы тоже в рыло дал если бы какой-то имбецил снимал меня на камеру.

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## Hanna

I don't understand what's happening but everyone in the video  sounds friendly and nice. What's the problem?  
Yesterday I saw 8 policemen standing over a man who was laying on the floor at an Underground (metro)  station, just by the ticket barrier. He was shouting really loud for them to get off him, but they actually STEPPED right on his hands to hurt him on purpose..!  
Me and some other women asked they police why they were being so violent, and why so many of them were surrounding just one, normal-looking man: They said that we didn't understand the situation and that there was "more going on than what we could see."  
The man was a regular English guy with normal clothes and a briefcase! Hardly a terrorist or dangerous criminal! 
It was really creepy and I had a strong feeling that the man had just tried to enter the underground without paying, or been rude to the underground staff, or the police...

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## Basil77

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2H37rWn1TU
> Чувака приговорили условно. Блин. Сажать надо было!!! http://www.pavlovoportal.ru/forum/index ... t&p=165104

 Я тут скорее на стороне гайцов. Толпа молодых оболтусов ведёт себя достаточно провокационно. У мента просто сдали нервы.

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## Ramil

> Originally Posted by Eugene-p  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2H37rWn1TU
> Чувака приговорили условно. Блин. Сажать надо было!!! http://www.pavlovoportal.ru/forum/index ... t&p=165104   Я тут скорее на стороне гайцов. Толпа молодых оболтусов ведёт себя достаточно провокационно. У мента просто сдали нервы.

 Нервы слабые - лечить надо, а не в МВД работать. Что там провокационного было?  
Ну и с другой стороны, приговор вполне суров, сажать за это было бы черезчур. Из органов попёрли и условный срок схлопотал ментяра - поделом ему! К тому же суд, рассматривая материалы дела, руководствуется УК, т. е. "вилкой" наказаний, предусмотренных статьёй, а конкретное наказание избирается исходя из наличия отягчающих и смягчающих обстоятельств. Отягчающих не было, смягчающие были, вот и получился условный срок. Прочитал приговор - всё вполне соответствует как букве, так и духу закона.

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## Basil77

Я написал "скорее на стороне", я мента совсем не оправдываю, я тоже против произвола и всё такое и сталкивался с беспределом ментов неоднократно. Но ментов тоже понять можно. Их двое, тут толпа молодёжи едет из ночного клуба. Чел за рулём без прав. Я ОЧЕНЬ сомневаюсь что мент изначально применил насилие БЕЗ ВСЯКОГО ПОВОДА. Я 15 лет за рулём, проехал больше миллиона км, общался с гаишниками тысячу раз и НИ РАЗУ не сталкивался с насилием или черезмерным хамством с их стороны. Я больше чем уверен, судя по отрывку видео, что провокационное поведение присутствовало изначально. 
Со мной тут произошёл случай позавчера. Я вечером зашёл вместе с женой (которая на 7-м месяце беременности) в магазин. Времени было около 9 вечера, еще светло и на улице полно народу. И вдруг на выходе из магазина вижу такую картину: какой-то кадр подбегает к пожилой женщине, бьёт её по голове, срывает с шеи цепочку и убегает. Я, к стыду своему, в первую секунду просто тупо уставился на эту картину (был шокирован). Первый среагировал охранник магазина, из которого я вышел, и побежал вдогонку за ублюдком. Я вышел из ступора и побежал за ними. В общем уродца мы скрутили, довели, попинывая, к магазину, где голосила ограбленная женщина и вызвали ментов. Я надеюсь лет на пять за грабёж его засадят. Но к чему я всё это пишу. К тому, что когда я догонял этого козла, у меня мелькнула мыслишка, как бы не получить удар ножом, с такого отморозка всё станется. К счастью, ножа у него не было. А вот теперь представь, что рядовой мент, даже гаишник (водителей неадекватных тоже хватает), подвергается такому риску каждый день.
 В общем, я считаю, что нельзя вешать всех собак на ментов и нужно уважительно относиться к их работе и к тому риску, с которым она связана.
З.Ы. Да, кстати, ни я, ни мои родственники или друзья не работают и никогда не работали в милиции. У меня даже "своих" ментов нет. Когда возникает необходимость в решении вопросов с той же ГАИ, к примеру, решаю на "общих" основаниях.

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## kybarry

Speaking of this, I literally just saw this movie, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800241/, "Transsiberian." It actually had some pretty good acting, and was certainly thrilling.  But, there is a major focus on the police in Russia, and they run away with the stereotype of corrupt.  Someone can tell me how Ben Kingsley's accent is; it seemed not too bad to me.  Then again, what do I know?  ::

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## Medved

> За что? *Я бы тоже в рыло дал* если бы какой-то имбецил снимал меня на камеру.

 И был бы неправ. И по закону, и по совести.
Лично я не имею ничего против, если меня снимают. Был бы гайцом - показал бы образцово-показательное первичное разбирательство и составление протокола, а не в рыло бы давал, подрывая репутацию МВД в целом и себя лично в частности.
Они должны быть примером для подражания. Это аксиома. *И они им являются*, независимо от того, как себя ведут.
Посмотрев на такие действия мента и взяв с них пример, какой-нибудь 16-летний отморозок может натворить тааааких дел....   

> Ну и с другой стороны, приговор вполне суров, сажать за это было бы черезчур. Из органов попёрли и условный срок схлопотал ментяра - поделом ему!

 Общественные работы на месяц к приговору бы пристегнуть, плюс по 50 тысяч морального ущерба потерпевшим, и я был бы удовлетворен. Но на моралку они еще только планируют подавать.

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## Medved

> but they actually STEPPED right on his hands to hurt him on purpose..!

 They could do that to block his hands if he was a drugseller. When catched, they try to eat that sh..t up or throw it away, to not be put in jail and continue their disqusting activity later. If he managed to swallow that in, police would be in a big trouble to prove his guilt. That's why they prevented him to do that, until criminalists get there. IMHO. 
And about that Russian road-police guy, He stopped a car, and the driver had no licence. He started drawing up a report and noticed that he had been filmed. He didn't like that another guy to film him, went off the car and and hit him. Then noticing the guy was going on filming, he tried to get his pistol, and then, being warned that he got no legal reasons to apply weapon, he went and threw another (third) guy down and hit him, too. Still nice? 
Hey, and correct my mistakes, please....  ::

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## Marlow

They could do that to block his hands if he was a drug dealer. When caught, they try to eat that sh..t up or throw it away, in order to not be put in jail and continue their disgusting activity later. If he managed to swallow it, police would be in big trouble trying to prove his guilt. That's why they prevented him from doing that, until criminalists (not sure what this is supposed to mean, possibly forensic scientists?) get there. IMHO. 
And about that Russian road-police guy, he stopped a car, and the driver had no license. He started writing up a report and noticed that he had been filmed. He didn't like that another guy was filming him so he went off the car and and hit him. Then noticing the guy was continuing filming, he tried to get his pistol, and then, being warned that he got no legal reasons to use a weapon, he went and threw another (third) guy down and hit him as well. Still nice?

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## quartz

> They could do that to block his hands if he was a drug dealer. When caught, they try to eat that sh..t up or throw it away, so they aren't put in jail and can continue their disgusting activity later. If he managed to swallow it, the police would be in a big trouble trying to prove his guilt. That's why they prevented him from doing that, until investigators (criminalists = в английском есть это слово но оно не употребляется в таком контексте или в разговорном языке) get there. IMHO. 
> And about that Russian road-police guy -- he stopped a car_ and the driver had no licence. He started writing up a report and noticed that he had been filmed. He didn't like that another guy was filming him, went off the car (неясно что вы имеете ввиду -- away from the car?) and and hit him. Then noticing that the guy was going on filming, he tried to get his gun (pistol это скорее револьвер) _and then, being warned that he got no legal reasons to use a weapon, he went and threw another (third) guy down and hit him_ too. Still nice? 
> Hey, and correct my mistakes, please....

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## Medved

Thanks guys!  :: 
A couple of questions/notices about the corrections / misunderstandings: 
1. "in order to not be put in jail" is exactly what I meant.
2. "If he managed to swallow it, police would be..." -- police, or the police, though? What's the difference if either?
3. How to say: "it will be very difficult for the police to prove his guilt" in informal?
4. Criminalists/Investigators -- I was just avoiding that "forensic scientists" term (that CSI: Crime Scene Investigation film). I don't know, why.   ::  
5. He started writing up a report -- Got it. Lingvo swindled me...
6. Since "went off the car" isn't clear, maybe "went out of the car" would be better?
7. "Then noticing the guy was continuing filming": what's better - continuing or going on? Maybe there's some tricky difference? 
Thanks in advance.

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## Pcloadletter

> Speaking of this, I literally just saw this movie, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800241/, "Transsiberian." It actually had some pretty good acting, and was certainly thrilling.  But, there is a major focus on the police in Russia, and they run away with the stereotype of corrupt.  Someone can tell me how Ben Kingsley's accent is; it seemed not too bad to me.  Then again, what do I know?

 I didn't see the movie and yet I'm expressing an opinion   ::  . Normally it takes a native Russian speaker to reproduce an authentic Russian accent, rolling "r"'s simply doesn't cut it. Professional singers are notable exceptions. Usually all Hollywood actors sound anything but Russian, perhaps arabic, but hey, what do I know?  :: . The only two big names that come to mind and who can do it are Milla Jovovich and Mila Kunis. But then again, they were born in Ukraine  :: .

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## quartz

> Thanks guys! 
> A couple of questions/notices about the corrections / misunderstandings: 
> 1. "in order to not be put in jail" is exactly what I meant. в принципе можно так сказать но звучит очень неловко; "to avoid jail" -- лучший вариант
> 2. "If he managed to swallow it, police would be..." -- police, or the police, though? What's the difference if either?   2 possibilities here; in both of them "the" is needed: 
> 1. you are speaking of _specific_ policemen involved in this specific situation. Their presence is already established. So, it's _this police exactly_ -- requires "the"
> OR 2. "police" here is a generic reference -- police in general. Police here is _collective plural_. This requires "the". 
> If you need, I can try to say this in Russian.    
> 3. How do you say: "it will be very difficult for the police to prove his guilt" in informal? -- "it would be hard for the police to prove that he's guilty" ?  
> 4. Criminalists/Investigators -- I was just avoiding that "forensic scientists" term (that CSI: Crime Scene Investigation film). I don't know, why.   
> ...

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## Pcloadletter

> Originally Posted by Eugene-p  Thanks guys! 
> A couple of questions/notices about the corrections / misunderstandings: 
> 1. "in order to not be put in jail" is exactly what I meant. в принципе можно так сказать но звучит очень неловко; "to avoid jail" -- лучший вариант
> 2. "If he managed to swallow it, police would be..." -- police, or the police, though? What's the difference if either?   2 possibilities here; in both of them "the" is needed: 
> 1. you are speaking of _specific_ policemen involved in this specific situation. Their presence is already established. So, it's _this police exactly_ -- requires "the"
> OR 2. "police" here is a generic reference -- police in general. Police is singular but refers to _complex_  _class_. This requires "the". 
> If you need, I can try to say this in Russian.    
> 3. How do you say: "it will be very difficult for the police to prove his guilt" in informal? -- "it would be hard for the police to prove that he's guilty" ?  
> 4. Criminalists/Investigators -- I was just avoiding that "forensic scientists" term (that CSI: Crime Scene Investigation film). I don't know, why.   
> ...

 Nice explanations, quartz, let me do my part   ::  
1. в принципе можно так сказать но звучит очень неловко;  
I'd suggest
в принципе, можно так сказать, но звучит очень неуклюже; 
2. более натурально сказать  
I'd suggest  
естественнее сказать, лучше сказать 
feel free to comment my attempts at English  ::

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## quartz

> feel free to comment on my attempts at English

 and ty   ::

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## Pcloadletter

> Originally Posted by Pcloadletter  feel free to comment on my attempts at English    and ty

 Grrr, those pesky prepositions   ::   
BTW, where do you study Russian, if you don't mind me asking? I can see that it is very advanced... well, apart from punctuation (lol).

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## quartz

My punctuation in Russian is terrible. Too many commas!!
I'm studying on my own. That's why I'm here.

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## Pcloadletter

> My punctuation in Russian is terrible. Too many commas!!
> I'm studying on my own. That's why I'm here.

 You show very impressive results, particularly for a self-taught person. As for commas... you shouldn't be too hard on yourself, the vast majority of Russians don't know how to use them properly either. Russian punctuation is a science, and can only be mastered after years of the appropriate formal education. 
*This is the moment when I die in agony struck by a mod for off-topic.*

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## RonCau

I am currently studying Criminal Justice and I have had experiences with US police. I can tell you that over here there are less violent crimes than anything else. Police can vary over here, they can either be really nice people willing to help you out but some will harass you. I was walking home one day from a football game when I was in high school and a cop stopped me and asked if I had any guns or hand grenades on me. I also know that some cops have stopped people and have beaten them severely and then arrested them claiming they resisted arrest, but over here cops can't use force like that even if someone does resist.

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## capecoddah

I sometimes deal with the police... If there are guests making my life miserable and I have no choice but kick them out of the motel, I call the police. I use the non-emergency business line, explain the situation and have a couple stop by to get rid of the problem people. If there is a fight or a threatening person is the problem, I call 911. It happens a couple times every season but not too alarming anymore. I work at night, on weekends, in a vacation/resort area so I get the alcohol-fueled idiocy people have saved up all year. Like most people in the hotel/motel business I have some stories. The cops are always very nice to me, fax / e-mail reports etc. "Cops" won't get filmed here. 
In the summer, the population doubles in size and weekends can triple or quadruple. The police hire a few Summer Cops, usually college students studying criminal justice. Bars close at 1am here and there is no public transportation. The "Bewitching Hour". Cars are pulled over for ANY small violation (drunk driving checks). "Come on vacation, leave on probation." Officially, the police don't pull over just anybody, but it's really a source of income for the town/state. ONE drink within one hour and you are busted. Since I'm driving home from at that time, I get pulled over 2-3 times a summer. It can be a pain in the ass if it's a new cop trying to go by the book but OK if I know him/her.  
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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