# Forum Other Languages Slavic languages Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian  Artificial languages (not Esperanto ;)

## wviz

Artificial languages (not Esperanto  ::  
Hi all. I would like to hear from you, what do you think about creation of new languages because of political reasons? 
Look at the former Yugoslavia. First it was only Croat-Serbian; Serb-Croatian and Slovenian.
Then we had Macedonian, soon after the ww2.
After the war in Balkans Slovenian and Macedonian are still there, as well as Serbian and Croatian, although separate. 
But now we have to more: Bosnian (Bosnjak) and Montenegrin. 
I believe that everyone has right to call their language the way they want.
But it is very bad to lose from the eyesight-linguistic science! 
First of all, we need to know ethnic structure and country borders that not follow that.
Language does not know for country borders. The very some dialect can be found in 3 states, spoken by 3 ethnic groups. 
Lets make an example. City of Banja Luka, Bosnia.
Same street, house next to house. Bosnian Muslim, Serb and Croat families live there. 
Ask them what language they talk.
Croat will say-Croatian; Serb-Serbian and Muslim-Bosnian or Bosnia.
The most absurd thing is that all speak the same dialect of that region.
Them means that in Croatian capital they speak different Croatian, and in Serbian Capitol of Belgrade they speak different Serbian. 
Slav Muslims in Serbia are claim now that they speak Bosnian. 
Again they neighbors, Serbs speak the very same dialect-but they speak Serbian.
In Croatia, Serbs are speaking Serbian, but its sounds very the same as Croatian in that region. It is the same dialect as Croatian, and not the Serbian in Serbia.
Same story with Croats in Serbia.
Script
Though all could theoretically use either, the scripts differ: 
official language in Croatia use exclusively the Latin alphabet 
official language in Bosnia and Herzegovina uses both Cyrillic alphabet and Latin alphabet 
official language in Serbia uses both Cyrillic alphabet and Latin alphabet 
In history, Croats, Serbs and Montenegrins have used glagolica script; Croatian form was mostly "squared", while Serb form was "mostly" rounded. Still, both peoples unrarely had mixed forms of glagolica letters used. Glagolica is oldest South Slavic script. 
Bosnians have also used script, that was less standardized, so it had more versions and names: bosanica (means the script that was originally from Bosnia), begovica (used by Bosniak nobility), bosančica. In some regions of Croatia, it was used until 1860's. 
Bosniaks used arabic script.  
I know this is very confusing, but my point is-that is very the same language with different dialects.
Tragically comedy gets more actors with Montenegrin and possible Voyvodian
I know, many people will be uppset now. 
The various nonsense differences aren't linguistically based, but important as is the symbolic value that is assigned to them by their ethnically, religiously, socially and politically diverse group of speakers.
But science needs and fact need to to come at the first place, not some close minded nationalistic ideas!   
Nice maps of ex-Yugoslavia (ethnic, dielsects, borders) http://lrrc3.sas.upenn.edu/popcult/MAPS/srbcroat/  [/img]

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## gRomoZeka

::  I can't even imagine how you live with all those languages. What textbooks do kids use at school when studing native language? Are they differ? Is there a special textbook for each "language"?

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## Triton

"What is the difference between a language and a dialect? - A language is a dialect with an army." ©  ::

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## TATY

Slovenian is a clearly distinct language.
Yes Macedonian is just a dialect of Bulgarian.

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## Triton

I bet Macedonians would disagree.  ::

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## Pejko

> Slovenian is a clearly distinct language.
> Yes Macedonian is just a dialect of Bulgarian.

  ::   
Yes, and may be Slovak is just a dialect of Czech, 
and may be Ukiainian is just a dialect of Russian,
and may be Dutch is just a dialect of German,
and may be USEnglish is just a dialect of GBEnglish,
and may be we are all just a type of a dialect... 
Yes, it is possible, guess...  ::  
There are so many languages which have done their bloody fight for they use in the past to say "any language is just a dialect." So many people have died, so many people have been persecuted, so many of them were abused to simply say --any language is just a dialect of the other one--, I only guess.  Guess. 
It is important to look ahead, to look forward for better tomorows because the victims. Because the crazy amount of victims been killed for their nation, language and customs.  
Idea of universall language is nice to me. But hard to proceed.  
Please, come somebody and stop the world killing, please come somebody and tell me, this is only bad dream and people are not so bad.    ::  Wake me up -- wake univerall language up -- wake up language of people, wakes it for people  ::

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## Stjepan

Standard Language is very much a political categorization and has very little to do with sicence.  The standard forms of Croatian and Serbian are intelligible between each other but represent different historical traditions.  Serbo-Croatian was the attempted merger of those traditions into a single one which was just as political a move than the reseparating into Serbian and Croatian in the 1990's.  Neither standard were anything new as both were layed out in the 19th century before the attempted complete convergence during socialism. 
The point is that the insistence by some over re-convergence is just as political as their separation, because of the implications that "Serbo-Croatian" carries about political union.   
It's interesting the Hindi and Urdu languages share almost the same relationship to each other as Serbian and Croatian do, but you never hear nearly so much crying over their separate standards as you do over this.

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## Janes

S L O V A N O (S-lingva)	                                                
MODERNE KONSTRUKTE SLOVANE LINGVA
( modern constructed slavic language )						    	 
BAZE GRAMATIKA - basic grammar  
ABCD  - ABC
(26 literi – 26 letters)
a, b, c, c‘, d, e, f, g, h, h‘, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, r, s, s‘, t, u, v, z, z‘      
S-lingva                  English        ( pronunciation ) 
    c'               -           ch             ( cheese )
    s'               -            sh             ( ash )
    z'               -            zh             ( pleasure, garage )
    h'               -            kh            (Kazakhstan, Mikhail)
   dz'              -            j / g          ( Jersey, gesture ) 
Slovosledenie es volne.
Kien fonem es spojite so en litera a kien litera reprezentit en fonem.
Ak vi slis’it slovo vi moz’et toi skribit a ked vi toi vidit vi moz’et toi gvorit.
Tam ne egzistit neki stres na slog 
Word order is free.
The spelling is a cinch: every phoneme matches one letter, and every letter matches one phoneme.
If you hear a word, you can spell it; if you see it, you can say it.
There is no stress on syllables.  
Letters q, w, y, x, ch  are used only in personal names and geographical names :
(Lydia,Sydney,Cyprus, Felix,  Egypt, Willson, New York, Quito, Mexiko,Chemnitz, Londin, 
Paris, Beograd, Moskva, Praha, Roma, Wars'awa, Kahira, Kipros 
Vele Britania (Great Britain), Anglia (England), Bavaria(Bavaria), Viena (Viena) 
Spelling in foreign words : olimpiada, fizika, dinamika, simbol, bicikel   
SUBSTANTIVI - Nouns 
Singular of nouns is in natural form :
sport, otec (father), mama, dieva (girl), junak (boy), deta (child), teta (aunt), zem (earth, soil), reka (river), mesto (place)
more (sea), ezero (lake), planeta, kosmos, galaksia, veda (science), radio, komputer, ekipaz' (crew), gord (fortress)
vokabular (vocabulary), denar (money), dom (house), mur (wall), osada (village), grod (town), stat (state) luc‘ (light) 
Plural is done by suffix :  - i
luc‘ – luc‘i, otec - oteci, brat - brati, komputer - komputeri, sport - sporti, aeroplan - aeroplani, aviator – aviatori, 
ekipaz' - ekipaz'i, mesec - meseci, den - deni, tiden - tideni, noc - noci, rok - roki, den - deni, put - puti, denar – denari 
Nouns ended in wovel : 
nome - nomi, mama - mami,  auto - auti, krilo - krili, herba - herbi, 
larva - larvi kamera - kameri, posta - posti, funga - fungi, raketa - raketi, triska - triski
planeta - planeti, litera - literi, prognoza -  prognozi, industria – industrii, variacia - variacii 
Nouns ended in difthongs : -ia, -io, -eo  :
instrukcia - instrukcii, bakteria - bakterii, tragedia - tragedii, televizia - televizii, radio - radii, 
evolucia - evolucii, distancia - distancii, galaksia - galaksii, video – videi
Nouns of living things with gender  :  ten, ta 
NOUNS OF MALE GENDER - before noun is :   ten
ten muz', ten kon, ten pes, ten orol, ten krokodil, ten lev, ten slon, ten delfin, 
ten direktor, ten s'ofer, ten europan, ten robotar, ten traktorist 
NOUNS OF FEMALE GENDER- before noun :   ta / - a
ta germanian(a) - german woman, ta anglian(a) - english woman, ta slovakian(a) - slovak woman,
ta europan(a) - european woman, ta s'ofer(a) - she driver, ta kosmonaut(a) - she astronaut
ta direktor(a) - she director, ta robotar(a) - she worker, ta vedar(a) / ta siencist(a) - she scientist
ta orol - she eagle, ta slon - she elephant, ta lev - she lion, ta kot - cat, ta delfin - she dolphin
·	Ending –a can be added as a suffix to the noun of female gender of living person e.g. 
    s’ofera, europana, kosmonauta, vedara  whereby ta doesn’t have to be used before the noun. 
GENDER NOT SPECIFIED :   to
to lev(lion), to medved(bear), to kot(cat/tom cat), to hus(goos,drake), to delfin(dolphin), to tur (cow, bull)
to dub(oak), to javor(maple), to lipa(lime), to breza(birch), to motil(butterfly), to riba(fish), to pteric(bird), 
to zover(animal), to savec(mamal),  to insekt(insect), to mis‘(mouse)
to komputer, to stol(table), to strom(tree), to olej(oil), to stolica(chair), to hrnec(pot), to dom(house), to ulica(street),
to autobus(bus), to list(leaf), to zem(soil,earth), to mas'ina(machine,engine), to olem(oil), 
Cubs are created by :  june e.g. june kon - foal, june kot - kitten, june kura - chicken, june lev - lion cub 
ADJEKTIVI - Adjectives
Finala - ending :   e
pekne - pretty,  dobre - good, rih'le - quick, interesante - interesting, slabe - weak, mocne - powerful, terme - warm
astere noc - starry night, terme diferencia - warm difference, polare - polar, pale – combustible, mizerne - bad
Globe gravitacia - Earth gravitation, Lune luc‘ - moon shine, dene tiket - daily ticket, komputere igra-computer game,
 televizie program - television programme, Severe Polare Cirk - North Polar Circus,  nove - new, Nova - new created star
Nouns ending in - e remain unchanged (more breg - sea coast) 
ADVERBI - Adverbs
Finala - ending :   o
dobro - well,  pekno - nice,  pomalo - slowly,  stalo - still, rih'lo - qwickly, nahlo - suddenly, malo - little, few,
termo - warmly, mezo - middle, between, among 
Nouns ending in - o remain unchanged : radio transmite - radio transmitted, racio narobite - rationally done
                                                           termo odevite - warmly dressed 
Kreatenie adverbiov zo verbi – Creating adverbs from verbs  
Adding  - o to infinitive of verb :
skribit / skribito (to write / in writing) , sunit / sunito (to sunbathe / sunny), videt / videto (to see / visibly) 
Gradacia ov adjektivi a adverbi  - Graduation of adjectives and adverbs :
vic - more, -er
nai - most, -est 
vic pomalo(slower) / nai pomalo(slowest), vic pekno(nicer) / nai pekno(nicest),
vic dobre(better) / nai dobre(best), vic malo(less/lesser) / nai malo(the least) 
Tie es vic rih'le kao ten - They are quicker then he.
Ta il nai pomale zo vse - She was the slowest of all. 
PREPOZICII - Prepositions
pri - at, na - on, vo – in (inside), od - from, do - into, cez - over, pod - under, nad - above, so - with, s - by means of, 
zo - from inside out, po - after, pred - before / in front of, za - behind, mezo - between, among, middle, o - about/at, 
via – through, by means of, ku – to (direction) 
o pette c'as - at five o'clock
o pet c'asi  -  in five hours 
Junak idet do les  -  A boy is going into a forest
Junak idet ku les  -  A boy is going to a forest
Junak es vo les   -  A boy is in a forest 
Skolar idet do skola – A pupil goes into a school
Skolar es vo skola – A pupil is in a school
Skolar idet zo skola – A pupil goes from a school
Skolar idet ku skola – A pupil goes to / towards a school   
KONJUNKCII - Conjuctions
a, i (and), tez'(also, too, as well)  
VERBI  - Verbs
Infinitive of verb - ending :   -  t  
sportit - to sport, grat - to play, idit - to go, gvarit - to speak, spat - to sleep, vedet - to know, kalkulit - to count videt - to see
luc’it - to shine, publikit - to publish, audit - to listen/to hear skopit - to scope, observit - to watch, medikit - to heal 
Creating the verbs from nouns is unlimited (sarkazmus - sarkazit, litera - literit, fonia - fonit, skopenie - skopit,
skribenie – skribit, observenie - observit, maenie - mat, laborenie - laborit, skienie - skit, komputenie - komputit, 
agrenie - agrit, medikenie – medikit, luc‘ – luc’it, vera – verit,   
- preterite c'as -  past tense :        -   l  
- prezente c'as -  present tense :    -  t  (infinitive)
- future c'as -  future tense :          -  m   
Mi gvarit   -  We speak / talk / say
Mi gvaril   -  We spoke / talked / said
Mi gvarim -  We will speak / talk / say 
Creating of verbs from nouns is unlimited e.g. sarkazmus - sarkazit (sarcasm - to sarcas), 
literar – literit (a writer - to write),  fonia – fonit (phono - to phono) etc. 
Konjugacia verbov  - Conjugation of verb    bit  -  to be  
Preterite c'as  - Past Tense :
ja  il    -     I was         			mi  il    -    we were
ti  il      -     you were			vi   il    -    you were
ten  il    -   he was		                  tie  il    -    they are
ta  il  -     she was
to  il  -     it was 
Prezente c'as  - Present Tense :
 ja  es      -  I am                                 mi  es   -    we are
 ti  es    -    you are                              vi   es  -     you are
ten  es    - he is                                   tie  es  -     they are
ta  es  -    she is
to  es   -    is is   
Future c'as  - Future Tense :
ja  em     -  I  shall / will                    mi  em    - we shall / will
ti   em     -  you will 	                  vi   em    - you will
ten em    -  he will		                  tie  em    - they will
ta  em     -  she will
to  em     -  it will 
KONDICIONALE FORMA - Conditional  :   bi
ja bi muset - I would have to
ja bi trebit  - I would need to (duty)
ja bi smiet  -  I would be allowed to
ja bi mogut -  I would be able to
KONDICIONALE FORMA PRETERITA - Past Conditional :   bi  +  -  l
ja bi musel - I would have had to
ja bi trebil  -  I would have needed to (duty)
ja bi smiel  -   I would have been allowed to
ja bi mog'il  -  I would have been able to 
imat - to have(posses), trebit - to be to (duty), h'cet - to want
moz‘et - can, smiet - may, muset - must,  
ja imat   -  I have
ja imal   -  I had
ja imam  -  I will have
ja bi imat   -  I would have
ja bi imal  - I would have had 
ja trebit  -  I am to / need to
ja trebil  - I was to / needed to
ja trebim  - I will need to
ja bi trebit   -  I would need to
ja bi trebil -  I would have needed to 
ja h'cet    -  I want
ja h'cel   -  I wanted
ja h'cem  -  I will want
ja bi h'cet   -  I would want
ja bi h'cel  -  I would have wanted 
ja moz‘et   - I can
ja moz‘el   -  I could[was able]
ja moz‘em   - I will be able 
ja bi moz‘et   -  I would be able
ja bi moz‘el  -  I would have been able 
ja smiet  - I may
ja smiel  - I might
ja smiem  - I will be allowed to
ja bi smiet  -  I would be allowed to
ja bi smiel  -  I would have been allowed to 
ja muset -  I must
ja musel -  I had to
ja musem - I will have to
ja bi muset  -  I would have to
ja bi musel  -  I would have had to   
KVESTIA - question
Robit ti ?    - Do you work / Are you working ?
Robil ti ?    - Did you work / Were you working ?
Robem ti ?  - Will you work / Will you be working ?  
NEGACIA  - negation   ne 
ja ne robit      -  I do not do/work
ja ne robil      - I did not do/work
ja ne robem   - I will not do/work  
PASIVE ROD VERBOV - Pasive Voice of Verb : 
Infinitive + suffix  - e  
Libro es skribite s moi priatel - A book is written by my friend
Libro il skribite s moi priatel - A book was written by my friend
Libro em skribite s moi priatel - A book will be written by my friend  
PERFEKTE  FORMA VERBOV - Perfect active voice of verb :  na -
na + infinitive (naskribit, narobit, naedukit, naplanit, navarit, naplantit)
na +  - l ( e.g. Ja naskribil to  - I have written it )
na +  - m (e.g. Ja narobim to do sutra - I will have done it by tomorrow) 
Tie bi narobil to, ak bil tam  - They would have done it if they had been there
(bi + il  = bil) 
Tie naskribim  to -  They will have written it
Tie naskribil to  -  They have written it  
PERFEKTE PASIVE FORMA VERBOV -  perfect passive voice of verb   na .... te 
Libro es naskribite s moi priatel  -   A book has been written by my friend
Libro es ne naskribite s moi priatel  -  A book has not been written by my friend
Libro il naskribite s moi priatel   -   A book had been written by my friend
Libro il ne naskribite s moi priatel  -  A book had not been written by my friend
Libro em naskribite s moi priatel  -   A book will have been written by my friend
Libro em ne naskribite s moi priatel  -  A book will not have been written by my friend 
MENENIE  STATUSOV  -  changing of status  :  pre 
vic  prevelit  - to get bigger         vic premalit  - to  get smaller
vic prevelij  -  get bigger !          vic premalij  -  get smaller ! (imperativ)
pretmavit  - to  get dark	            pretmavite - darken
presvitit  - to  get enlighten         presvitite - enlighten
prestaret  -  to grow old             prestarete - grown old
prekamenit  -  to turn to stone  prekamenite - turned to stone    
OPOZIT  -  oposite of activity  :  roz
vazat / rozvazat           -   to tie / to untie
kluc'it / rozkluc'it       -  to lock / to unlock
budovat / rozbudovat  -  to build / to demolish 
Enokrate aktenie – one-time  action  :  u
slis’al – uslis’al
videl – uvidel 
KREATENIE SUBSTANTIVIOV ZO VERBI - Making nouns from verbs :
without  vowel + t  ending and adding  - enie , plural – eni 
robit - robenie(to do/work - doing/working), skribit - skribenie(to write-writing), numerit - numerenie(to count-counting), 
dat - daenie(to give - giving), agrit - agrenie(to crop - cropping), laborit - laborenie(to labour - labouring) 
daeni, robeni, skribeni, numereni, agreni, laboreni
* one syllable words are created by omiting just last -t ending : dat - daenie -daeni, spat - spaenie - spaeni 
CIVIL NACIONOV -  Citizen of nation :  an / ani (pl.) 
Germanian(i), Italian(i), Rusian(i), Amerikan(i), C'eh'ian(i), Slovakian(i), Polakian(i), Hungarian(i), Spanian(i), 
Francian(i), S'vedian(i), Ukrainan(i),Europan(i), Japonian(i), Arabian(i), Afrikan(i), Australian(i),Eskiman(i) 
ameroindian(i), judean(i), cigan(i)     
LINGVA - language - ending :  - o 
germanio - german,  rusio - russian, slovakio - slovak, c'eh'io - czech, anglio - english, belorusio - belarussian 
polakio - polish, slovenio - slovenian, ukraino - ukrainian, latvio - latvian, litvio - lithuanian, estonio - estonian, 
japonio, arabio, francio, italio, spanio, holandio, serbio, h'rvatio, macedonio, bulgario,  esperanto, slovio, ido, 
slovano, kelto, hebreio, koptio, staroegypto, kec'uano, maio, azteko, arabio, c'ino, basko, katalanio, afrikano,
but : interlingva, slavisk, proslava, slovianski, slezan, volapuk, occidental, novial, latina, glosa, dunia 
        germane lingvi - germanic languages, romane lingvi - romance languages, slovane lingvi - slavic languages
        rusie lingva - russian language, slovakie lingva - slovak language, anglie lingva - english language
 or : lingva germanio, lingva rusio, lingva slovakio, lingva anglio, lingva c’ino, lingva polakio 
PARTICIP  -  s  -enie 
S s‘oferenie auto tie slis’al muzika  -  Driving a car they were listening to music 
DEKLINACIA OV SUBSTANTIVI - Declination of Nouns   
Nominativ                         To es dom                           -  It is a house
Genitiv         ov               To es auto ov otec                -  It is the car of father
Dativ            om             Tie em dat to libro om deti -  You will give the book to children          
Akuzativ    			 Tie nabudoval dom               -  They built up a house 
Lokal :   o  - about, on   
( o mama - about mum, o otec - about dad, o nam - about us, o me - about me, 
o te - about you(sg.), o tenu - about him, o tau - about her, o tiem - about them )
Instrumental :   s  - by    
( s mama - by mum, s otec - by dad, s nam - by us, s me - by me, s te - by you,
s tenu - by him, s tau - by her, s tiem - by them)  
In case of substantive in accusative in the beginning of a sentence this is in passive voice :
Dom il nabudovate s tiem   - The dom was buit up by them.  
To es govorite o te    -    It is spoken about you.
Auto es s'oferite s otec   -   A car is driven by father 
Kafe es servite s c'as'iner  -  Coffee is served by a waiter
Kafe es so cukor   -  Coffee is with sugar 
Bit s te, ja bi ne idet tam  -  Being you I wouldn

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