# Forum Learning Russian Language Pronunciation, Speech & Accent  How do you pronounce the name "Kovalev"

## snorkyller

How do you pronounce the name of hockey player Alex Kovalev? 
Some hockey descriptors pronounce it "Koval*ef*", while some other pronounce it "Koval*yef*" 
Thank you

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## TATY

Ka-va-lyoff
or
Ka-va-loff  
Stress on the last sylable. 
Ковалёв 
I presume these are American commentators, in which case they don't have a clue about pronouncing it. Although written as E in English the Russian letter is a Yo.

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## net surfer

Ka-va-loff is wrong.

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## snorkyller

Someone just told me that a hockey commentator asked to Alex Kovalev, in october, if he should say "Kovalef" or "Kovalyef".  He answered that "Kovalef" is ok. 
Can you explain me what is the purpose of writting everywhere "Kovalev" instead of Ковалёв?  "Kovalev" doesn't even indicate the right way to pronounce it.  Since they don't write Ковалёв, I would rather write something like "Kavalyoff"...   
Everybody pronounce it "Kovalef" and even some people are saying "Kovaleve"...

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## TATY

> Ka-va-loff is wrong.

 I presume you are talking about the absence of y. Well I find ly gives the wrong impression of a soft L. And English L is not a hard L in Russian. Just look at how English words with L are written in Russian. Often, maybe usually with a soft sign: Noble - Ноубль  
English L is probably closer to a soft Russian L than a hard one. 
If I just wrote lyoff, he would pronounce a Y after the L.

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## TATY

> Someone just told me that a hockey commentator asked to Alex Kovalev, in october, if he should say "Kovalef" or "Kovalyef".  He answered that "Kovalef" is ok. 
> Can you explain me what is the purpose of writting everywhere "Kovalev" instead of Ковалёв?  "Kovalev" doesn't even indicate the right way to pronounce it.  Since they don't write Ковалёв, I would rather write something like "Kavalyoff"...   
> Everybody pronounce it "Kovalef" and even some people are saying "Kovaleve"...

 They don;;t write Ковалёв because it's Russian.  
Е - ye
Ё - yo 
But Russians don't usually write the dots on the E. Anyway, generally, Ё is just transliterated as E in English. 
Hence Горбачёв - Gorbachev 
Хрущёв - Khrushchev 
Both are pronounced with -yoff endings.

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## gRomoZeka

> But Russians don't usually write the dots on the E.

 ...to save an energy.   ::  It seldom causes any problems to native speakers. They use dots usually only in books for kids not to confuse little ones.

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## snorkyller

> Hence Горбачёв - Gorbachev 
> Хрущёв - Khrushchev 
> Both are pronounced with -yoff endings.

 Yes, and everybody here are saying Gorbache*f* and Khrushche*f*.    ::   ::   
My first language is french and everytime I hear a french name incorrectly pronounced, especially when I'm watching hockey games, my hears got hurted   ::   .  Martin St-Lewis instead of "St-Louis".  Patrick Woy instead of "Roy". 
I think it's difficult to pronounce russian, french or spanish language when you speak english.

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by TATY  Hence Горбачёв - Gorbachev 
> Хрущёв - Khrushchev 
> Both are pronounced with -yoff endings.   Yes, and everybody here are saying Gorbache*f* and Khrushche*f*.      
> My first language is french and everytime I hear a french name incorrectly pronounced, especially when I'm watching hockey games, my hears got hurted    .  Martin St-Lewis instead of "St-Louis".  Patrick Woy instead of "Roy". 
> I think it's difficult to pronounce russian, french or spanish language when you speak english.

 Well in Russian the V at the end is pronounced F.

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## Rtyom

English names are often mispronounced and you you'll know so many variants of one and only name which the owner of tis name wouldn't hear in all his/her life.  ::

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## Бармалей

> Someone just told me that a hockey commentator asked to Alex Kovalev, in october, if he should say "Kovalef" or "Kovalyef".  He answered that "Kovalef" is ok.

 It's entirely possible that :
a) he just didn't care to put any effort into explaining it to some reporter who also doesn't really care and who probably has all of two Russian words in his vocab (nyet and vodka)
or 
b) he understands that it's his "professional" name, meaning people who aren't familiar with Russian have butchered it for so long, so what's the point?

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## net surfer

Well, I think it's better, faster and easier to make a recording.

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## snorkyller

> Well, I think it's better, faster and easier to make a recording.

 Thank you for the sound file!!! 
Well for "Kavaloff", to me, the first "a" doesn't sounds like the second "a".  It seems to be something between an "o" and an "a".
In french, "K

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## TATY

[quote=snorkyller] 

> Well, I think it's better, faster and easier to make a recording.

 Thank you for the sound file!!! 
Well for "Kavaloff", to me, the first "a" doesn't sounds like the second "a".  It seems to be something between an "o" and an "a".
In french, "K

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## laxxy

> Originally Posted by net surfer  Ka-va-loff is wrong.   I presume you are talking about the absence of y. Well I find ly gives the wrong impression of a soft L. And English L is not a hard L in Russian. Just look at how English words with L are written in Russian. Often, maybe usually with a soft sign: Noble - Ноубль  
> English L is probably closer to a soft Russian L than a hard one. 
> If I just wrote lyoff, he would pronounce a Y after the L.

 I agree with Taty here -- "loff" is likely to be pronounced closer to truth, by an average English speaker at least.

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## snorkyller

Thank's again for your interesting explanations! 
I got a new question (yes, again   ::  ) 
Is the pronounciation of "ev" the same as for "ov"?  It seems to me to be the same...
If so, does it means that "ev" and "ov" has both the same signification, the difference being the location from where the name come from?

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## Rtyom

They sound differently but overall the idea implied in them is the same.

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## laxxy

> Thank's again for your interesting explanations! 
> I got a new question (yes, again   ) 
> Is the pronounciation of "ev" the same as for "ov"?  It seems to me to be the same...
> If so, does it means that "ev" and "ov" has both the same signification, the difference being the location from where the name come from?

 It depends.
After a hard consonant you'll often have an "ov", but after a soft one (as in Коваль), you'll have "ёв" (->ev),  since "ьо" is replaced with "ё", which is in its' turn usually written as "e" in Russian orthography. If he were a Ukrainian citizen, his name would have been written as Ковальов in Ukrainian (since we don't have the letter "ё") and transcribed as "Kovalyov". 
Also there are of course proper "ev's", without a hidden ё, like in say Медведев (Medvedev), which is pronounced "medvEdeff", not "medvedYOff". This ending is typically unstressed, unlike "ов/ёв", which often is (always in the case of "yov", but not necessarily of "ov", e.g. Kurnikova is "kUrnikava", with the stress on the first syllable, bit Ivanov is "ivanOff"). exceptions, exceptions....

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## TATY

Смирнов - Smirnov
Попов - Popov
Медведев - Myedvyedyev
Ковалёв - Kovalyov 
Ё - yo
Е - ye
О - o 
Those three are PRONUNCIATIONS. 
However in newspapers and on TV and stuff Russian E tends to be *written* as E, 
Ё also as E
and O as O. 
But Ё is often just written as E in English, infact it is a convention in academic usage.

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## snorkyller

Thank's a lot.  I think that I now have a good comprehension.
We never stop to learn...!   ::

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## alexieff

> Well, I think it's better, faster and easier to make a recording.

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## erika

Since everyone is already talking about names, I'm not gonna open a new topic to ask this. 
What's the stress syllabe on the name Воронин?

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## tyomitch

Вор*о*нин

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## Chuvak

I DO HATE Popov!!! (Its my former teacher and he's a sod)

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## Rtyom

You mean it?
Maybe you want to say "sob"? Sod is a way different.

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## kalinka_vinnie

> I DO HATE Popov!!! (He is my former teacher and he's a sod)

 Sod is right, if you mean that he was an asshole (technically he is a sodomite)

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## translationsnmru

> And English L is not a hard L in Russian. Just look at how English words with L are written in Russian. Often, maybe usually with a soft sign: Noble - Ноубль  
> English L is probably closer to a soft Russian L than a hard one.
> .

 That's a very interesting point. As a matter of fact, Brits seem to palatalize "L" more than Americans. I have noticed that on more than one occasion. I am talking averages here, of course, there may be (and probably are) a lot of exceptions to this rule.

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## Chuvak

> You mean it?
> Maybe you want to say "sob"? Sod is a way different.

 Кароче, он был (и по видимому остался) настоящим пид*расом в прямом смысле этого слова!!!

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## Seventh-Monkey

My (Ukrainian) Russian-teachers are always saying "no, a hard 'l'" when I say 'l's.

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## laxxy

I personally find Russian hard L closer to English W, the tongue position feels almost identical and quite different from Russian soft L or English L.

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## TATY

> I personally find Russian hard L closer to English W, the tongue position feels almost identical and quite different from Russian soft L or English L.

 The tongue position of Hard L and English W are completely different. The tongue isn't really used in W, it lies flat at the bottom of the mouth. With Hard L the tip of the tongue is up behind the top teeth. 
Remember, Soft L is just Hard L but palatised.

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## laxxy

> Originally Posted by laxxy  I personally find Russian hard L closer to English W, the tongue position feels almost identical and quite different from Russian soft L or English L.   The tongue position of Hard L and English W are completely different. The tongue isn't really used in W, it lies flat at the bottom of the mouth. With Hard L the tip of the tongue is up behind the top teeth. 
> Remember, Soft L is just Hard L but palatised.

 In my case at least, the hard and soft L, unlike the other Russian consonants, are definitely NOT a palatized and non-palatized version of each other, not even close -- in particular, the tip of my tongue is down, and is in fact located pretty much in the same place as when pronouncing W.

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by TATY        Originally Posted by laxxy  I personally find Russian hard L closer to English W, the tongue position feels almost identical and quite different from Russian soft L or English L.   The tongue position of Hard L and English W are completely different. The tongue isn't really used in W, it lies flat at the bottom of the mouth. With Hard L the tip of the tongue is up behind the top teeth. 
> Remember, Soft L is just Hard L but palatised.   In my case at least, the hard and soft L, unlike the other Russian consonants, are definitely NOT a palatized and non-palatized version of each other, not even close -- in particular, the tip of my tongue is down, and is in fact located pretty much in the same place as when pronouncing W.

 Well you are probably saying one of them wrong :P

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## laxxy

> Originally Posted by laxxy        Originally Posted by TATY        Originally Posted by laxxy  I personally find Russian hard L closer to English W, the tongue position feels almost identical and quite different from Russian soft L or English L.   The tongue position of Hard L and English W are completely different. The tongue isn't really used in W, it lies flat at the bottom of the mouth. With Hard L the tip of the tongue is up behind the top teeth. 
> Remember, Soft L is just Hard L but palatised.   In my case at least, the hard and soft L, unlike the other Russian consonants, are definitely NOT a palatized and non-palatized version of each other, not even close -- in particular, the tip of my tongue is down, and is in fact located pretty much in the same place as when pronouncing W.   Well you are probably saying one of them wrong :P

 could be of course -- I could never pronounce the Russian R, but so far I have never heard much complaints about my L, and I'm quite sure my W is correct.

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## TATY

Well then maybe your interpretation of where your tongue is is wrong.

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## Rtyom

> Well then maybe your interpretation of where your tongue is is wrong.

 'Is is' - rarely do I see this one being repeated!

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by TATY  Well then maybe your interpretation of where your tongue is is wrong.   'Is is' - rarely do I see this one being repeated!

 It would be better to say: 
maybe your interpretation of your tongue's position is wrong, to avoid "is is".

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## laxxy

> Well then maybe your interpretation of where your tongue is is wrong.

 I have just conducted an experiment -- I've put a thin strip of paper between my teeth, and when I am saying a word with a soft L lika "lyazhka" I feel the tip of my tongue touching it (since it moves up); on the other hand, when I am saying a word with a hard L like "lozhka" it is not touching the strip since it stays down.

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by TATY  Well then maybe your interpretation of where your tongue is is wrong.   I have just conducted an experiment -- I've put a thin strip of paper between my teeth, and when I am saying a word with a soft L lika "lyazhka" I feel the tip of my tongue touching it (since it moves up); on the other hand, when I am saying a word with a hard L like "lozhka" it is not touching the strip since it stays down.

 When you say a hard L the tip of the tongue is definately UP. In Phonetics an L is described as dental or alveolar approximate. Dental means touching the teeth. Alveolar means the ridge behind the top teeth. In Russian it is Alveolar.  
There is no way you can produce a hard L with your tongue "staying down".

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## laxxy

> Originally Posted by laxxy        Originally Posted by TATY  Well then maybe your interpretation of where your tongue is is wrong.   I have just conducted an experiment -- I've put a thin strip of paper between my teeth, and when I am saying a word with a soft L lika "lyazhka" I feel the tip of my tongue touching it (since it moves up); on the other hand, when I am saying a word with a hard L like "lozhka" it is not touching the strip since it stays down.   When you say a hard L the tip of the tongue is definately UP. In Phonetics an L is described as dental or alveolar approximate. Dental means touching the teeth. Alveolar means the ridge behind the top teeth. In Russian it is Alveolar.  
> There is no way you can produce a hard L with your tongue "staying down".

 well maybe once I get to a microphone I can record a sample.

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## TATY

I imagine you are actually pronouncing an L but you just aren't tracking the movement of your tongue properly.  
Sorry, I trust the hundreds of years of Phonetic science than some random off the internet.

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## laxxy

> I imagine you are actually pronouncing an L but you just aren't tracking the movement of your tongue properly.  
> Sorry, I trust the hundreds of years of Phonetic science than some random off the internet.

 well -- I realized the similarity between L and W when I was trying to learn how to pronounce "salad" in English properly (used to be a mighty hard word for me), and I was told that the version with the Russian hard L sounds quite like W.

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## Rtyom

Laxxy, maybe you try to vocalize your [l] and thinks it's kind of [w] sound? There is a tendency in the English phonetics, I must admit.

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## laxxy

> Laxxy, maybe you try to vocalize your [l] and thinks it's kind of [w] sound? There is a tendency in the English phonetics, I must admit.

 I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "vocalize" here.

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## Rtyom

Vocalization is the phonetic process which core is substitution of a consonant with a vowel sound having similar articulation basis. 
I'm sure you also vocalize [l] in the word 'milk', so it sounds more like 'miwk'.

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## laxxy

> Vocalization is the phonetic process which core is substitution of a consonant with a vowel sound having similar articulation basis. 
> I'm sure you also vocalize [l] in the word 'milk', so it sounds more like 'miwk'.

 that could be it, I guess.

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## TATY

That's called a dark L, and is what I do in my dialect, and basically L becomes a W. 
However we were talking about Russian Л.

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## basurero

Во всяком случае, я произношу это имя так: 
koh vuh lev 
лол, это из-за того, что я не русский.

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## Chuvak

> Во всяком случае, я произношу это имя так: 
> koh vuh lev 
> лол, это из-за того, что я не русский.

 А я ваще не произношу эту фамилию, так как у меня нет и не было знакомых с такой фамилией!!!

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## basurero

Я когда-то увидел игрателя хоккея, которого звали по этому имени.  ::   ::   ::   ::   ::   ::   ::   ::   ::   ::

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## Chuvak

> Я когда-то (better видел)увидел хоккеиста, которого звали по этому имени.

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## TATY

It's Ковал*ё*в anyway.

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## Chuvak

> It's Ковал*ё*в anyway.

 Yes, Its the only way to make it sound natural!!!

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## TATY

Вы не читали "Нос" Гоголя?

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## Chuvak

> Вы не читали "Нос" Гоголя?

 Мне русскую классику влом читать.

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## Оля

> Я когда-то увидел игрателя хоккея, которого звали по этому имени.

 "которого звали по этому имени" - так никто не скажет.
Лучше: "которого так звали" или "у которого была такая фамилия".

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## basurero

спасибо за исправления.   ::

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