# Forum About Russia Politics  "EGYPT IS FREE!" - The  Egyptian People Celebrate

## Lampada

It's amazing!

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## Crocodile

> Egypt's Vice President Omar Suleiman said on Friday that Mubarak had  bowed to pressure from the street and had resigned, *handing power to the army*, he said in a televised statement.

 Huh?  ::

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## Lampada

> Huh?

 80 million people are still stronger than an army and the army is made of people.  Will see.

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## Crocodile

Do you mind to share your opinion about Egypt? I mean, whenever the US needed a place for Israel and Palestine to sign their so-called 'peace accord', the US chose Egyptian Sharm el-Sheikh and Hosni Mubarak was a host. Up until now I was kind of thinking you supported the official US foreign policy. Was I mistaken?

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## sperk

do you have a link?

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## Lampada

> Do you mind to share your opinion about Egypt? I mean, whenever the US needed a place for Israel and Palestine to sign their so-called 'peace accord', the US chose Egyptian Sharm el-Sheikh and Hosni Mubarak was a host. Up until now I was kind of thinking you supported the official US foreign policy. Was I mistaken?

 I am not political. I do hope that Israel stays safe.  Let's hear what's Obama'll say shortly.

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## Eric C.

I definitely agree with Lampada on that. I can only say "F*ck dictators of any kind!!!" I think 30 years of imprisonment for the whole nation is more than enough. I also think though, there's still much work to do in this direction, but Tunisia and Egypt have provided a good start for that. There're still several dozens of dictatorships in the world, and I hope they'll all face what the dictatorships of those two countries faced.

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## Crocodile

> do you have a link?

  Do you mean something like that? Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Crocodile

> I am not political. I do hope that Israel stays safe.  Let's hear what's Obama'll say shortly.

  I do not mean to confuse you, but isn't Obama also a politician? Or, do you mean, you perceive the politics the same way Obama does? You see, by mentioning you can't stop crying with joy, that's kind of saying you're somewhat political. At least, you have some opinion about Egypt, something that makes you crying with joy. All I asked, do you mind to share it? I promise, I won't bite ...

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## Basil77

Free Egypt!!!!!!!! Oh, wait, what??!

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## sperk

Рад того, что семьи погибших не почувствуются, что их детей умерли зря.

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## Lampada

> . At least, you have some opinion about Egypt, something that makes you crying with joy. All I asked, do you mind to share it? I promise, I won't bite ...

 " ..._Some Israelis regard Egypt as the most anti-Semitic country in the entire Middle East._ ..." ( HonestReporting )   This is sad. 
No, I did not have any opinion about Egypt, did not know what was going on over there.

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## Basil77

> Рад тому, что семьи погибших не будут чувствовать, что их дети умерли зря.

 Скажи это им. Ни один сраный переворот или революция не стоит и одной человеческой жизни. Ну, может быть, кроме жизни диктатора, его пусть убивают на здоровье - он знал на какие риски шёл. К сожалению, обычно бывает с точностью до наоборот. 
Edit: А с другой стороны правильно, ануевонах. Свобода или смерть. Patria o muerte. Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado. Лучше умереть стоя. Пойду брошусь под кортеж Чубайса.

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## Ramil

No revolution happens without a cost. I can only hope they wouldn't have to pay much. Such events are usually followed by inflation, worsening of peoples' lives. Famine and civil war is also possible. So I don't see how can one be filled with joy. The Egyptians have a very difficult time ahead and we can only hope they will manage that without turning into another Somali or Sudan. Freedom (and illusional one like Europeans or Americans have) is a little thing compared to what's in store for the Egypt in the future. I just hope they won't regret the choice they've just made.

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## Hanna

Good for them and good luck. Whatever political system they want is fine by me... Good riddance Mubarak. I had actually not realised that Egypt was a military dictatorship for 30 years. Interesting co-incidence that he stepped down on the exact same day as the anniversary of the revolution in Iran.  
Like a few others have expressed here, I am just hoping that the new Egypt does not decide to start any aggression against Israel.

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## sperk

"Швейцарский национальный банк сообщает, что вкладчик Хосни Мубарак хранит там около четырех миллиардов долларов." 
Его надо посадить.

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## wanja

So Egypt is free from tourists, free from their money...

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## Hanna

> "Швейцарский национальный банк сообщает, что вкладчик Хосни Мубарак хранит там около четырех миллиардов долларов."
> Его надо посадить.

 My word, how disgusting. In a righteous world, the banks would give up  the money and set it up in a fund to spend on healthcare, education and  infrastructure in Egypt - that's what it should have been spent on in the first place! No national leader has the right to get rich while in office.   
I actually didn't know the details about Mubarak and his rule but over the last few days I have gathered that this is one of the more peaceful examples of US foreign policy at work. 30 years these people have been ripped off by this despot, and lived under martial law! How long is it going to be until American people get fed up with these kinds of regimes being supported in their names!

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## Dmitry Khomichuk

Revolution? Ha-ha. I will see what you do, when new Islamic government will get nuclear weapons. 
It is good to say "revolution", "free Egypt" when you are sitting on the other side of globe.

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## Lampada

> Revolution? Ha-ha. I will see what you do, when new Islamic government will get nuclear weapons. 
> It is good to say "revolution", "free Egypt" when you are sitting on the other side of globe.

 Я надеюсь, что египтянки никогда не согласятся на шарию.

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## Eric C.

> Revolution? Ha-ha. I will see what you do, when new Islamic government will get nuclear weapons. 
> It is good to say "revolution", "free Egypt" when you are sitting on the other side of globe.

 I would really like to see your thoughts on the regime of Iran.

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## Dmitry Khomichuk

So, Iran. First of all they are not Arabs. But if they get nuclear weapons it will be the same shit.
Iran now looks good because it is as UK at the late XIX - early XX. For monarchies they are great monarchy with big history, and for democracies they are great democracy.
So Iran has the president, people's rights etc. Looks like civilized country with long history (Persia) and they hate Arabs. But the same time Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (second army under control of Guardian Council of Islamic Revolution). Hezbollah in Lebanon. "We will destroy fucking Israel" etc.

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## Eric C.

> So, Iran. First of all they are not Arabs. But if they get nuclear weapons it will be the same shit.
> Iran now looks good because it is as UK at the late XIX - early XX. For monarchies they are great monarchy with big history, and for democracies they are great democracy.
> So Iran has the president, people's rights etc. Looks like civilized country with long history (Persia) and they hate Arabs. But the same time Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (second army under control of Guardian Council of Islamic Revolution). Hezbollah in Lebanon. "We will destroy fucking Israel" etc.

 I asked you about Iran because it is NOW what you were predicting Egypt was going to be - Islamic government trying to get access to nuclear weapon. In fact, very Islamic and very fanatical. So fanatical that people there are told what hairstyle to have, what to watch on TV, etc. And what's absolutely disgusting are women being stoned for having sex. That's what their _president_ stands for, and what kind of _human rights_ they have. But I knew you would defend that regime for some reason... And I was right.

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## Dmitry Khomichuk

Why do you think I defend this regime? I wrote that it is only looks like civilized. 
To be honest I do not care what regime they have. They should fight with themselves, and must not become enough unite, democratic or islamic, to have interests in other parts of the world.

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## Eric C.

Well, a country where people are punished with death for what's not even a crime can't look civilized... I generally agree about their great history, but what's going on there now is just awful. I thought having written they're a great democracy and have human rights, you admitted that you supported that regime. Maybe I didn't get you quite right?

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## Dmitry Khomichuk

About great democracy it was written about UK. 
About Iran was written only that is looks like civilized country with president, and comparing to islamic countries they have human rights. But the same time they have islamic government and islamic army controlled by imams, and they want to "clear fucking Israel from the face of the Earth"

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## Dmitry Khomichuk

Yes it is bad regime. By they can't become as you want "по мановению волшебной палочки". And I think they never become. They are other culture. So it is sad, but we should to do all that prevent them affecting other culture. Supporting dictators, supporting islamic fanatics. 
"Я очень добрый в душе и хочу помочь всем; но чтобы кому-то что-то дать, это что-то нужно у кого-то отобрать; поэтому я реалист и добр только к своему ближайшему окружению."

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## Ramil

> Я надеюсь, что египтянки никогда не согласятся на шарию.

 Кто их спрашивать будет?

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## Lampada

> Кто их спрашивать будет?

 Они могут голосовать.  Egyptian women and the right to vote

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## Ramil

> Они могут голосовать.  Egyptian women and the right to vote

 Это при тирании Мубарака! В демократическом свободном Египте - посмотрим )))

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## BappaBa

*События в Египте и Тунисе спланированы в США* 
"...Китайский след в интриге вокруг Туниса заключается в том, что одна из китайских  компаний намерена добывать нефть в туниской зоне океанского шельфа. Дело это  дорогостоящее. Затевать его можно лишь при уверенности в экономической  стабильности партнера – будь он диктатор или демократ. Работы уже идут. Но из-за  событий в Тунисе у Китая нет уверенности в том, что новые власти африканской  страны одобрят имеющиеся соглашения и не начнут искать себе опору среди других  нефтяных магнатов.  
Посылу о возможности нашей ссоры с Китаем  предшествовал недавний скандал вокруг хищений при строительстве нефтепровода из  России в Поднебесную. А такие скандалы просто так не возникают – на  международном уровне их устраивают. Поскольку воровали не больше обычных норм,  всем было ясно, что этим скандалом дело не кончится. Следующим этапом в плане  разработчиков провокаций и был Тунис, который использовали в качестве  промежуточного детонатора для взрыва Египта и *отсечения Китая от источника  нефти*..."
=)

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## Lampada

> *События в Египте и Тунисе спланированы в США* 
> =)

 Клоун.  
 "_Четыре звёздочки схватил по Вассерману..."_

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## sperk

"Например, в Интернете появился любопытный документ. В нем расписан чуть  ли не график начала стихийных народных восстаний в Тунисе и Египте и  поэтапный план подготовки этих волнений, списанный с образцов цветных  революций, включая оранжевую, которую США затеяли на Украине. " 
А где этот документ?

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## Ramil

It's not very important. I'm practically sure that Egypt will soon be controlled by islamists. The question is whether or not they would decide to block Suez Canal or not. I don't think it would be a wise move, but still there is such a probability. This would be a very difficult situation for Europe.

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## Eric C.

> "Например, в Интернете появился любопытный документ. В нем расписан чуть  ли не график начала стихийных народных восстаний в Тунисе и Египте и  поэтапный план подготовки этих волнений, списанный с образцов цветных  революций, включая оранжевую, которую США затеяли на Украине. " 
> А где этот документ?

 I'm sure it has never existed. There're just some clowns who got used to think that whenever people somewhere overthrow another dictatorship, it is only done with help of the US.

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## Lampada

__  _" Вся правда об Анатолии Вассермане_  _Анатолий Вассерман — отец Николая Валуева_   _У Анатолия Вассермана 7 мозгов, один в голове, 5 рассованы по карманам и один в бороде._   _Жилет Анатолия Вассермана весит 70 кг и содержит 354 предмета. Среди прочего он всегда носит с собой карманную астролябию и масштабную модель Вселенной._   _Мозг Анатолия Вассермана — это единственная вещь во Вселенной, которая нужна Чаку Норрису._   _Анатолию Вассерману не нужен интернет, у него есть память._   _В жилет Вассермана встроен металлический каркас для поддержки 30–и килограммового мозга._   _Когда разломается интернет, можно подключиться к Анатолию Вассерману и восстановить его из кеша_   _Пять минут созерцания фотографии Анатолия Вассермана увеличивает iq на 30%._   _Анатолий Вассерман — зам. начальника интернета._   _Мы все — полуденный сон Анатолия Вассермана._   _В далеком детстве Анатолий Вассерман носил колготки с 15–тью кармашками_  _Хомячок Анатолия Вассермана получил второе высшее образование_   _Гугл умещается в мозжечке Вассермана._   _Гугл и Википедия — всего лишь небольшие частные случаи мимолетной задумчивости Анатолия._   _Анатолий Вассерман — первая учительница Владимира Путина._   _Анатолий Вассерман всегда берет с собой на прогулку Британнику или Брокгауза и Ефрона, просто чтобы было что почитать в метро._   _Анатолий Вассерман читает книги в инфракрасном диапазоне со скоростью до 1250 Мбит/с на расстоянии до 900 метров._   _Досрочный ответ Анатолия Вассермана единственный случай превышения скорости света в макромире._   _Владимир Путин и Джордж Буш лишь пешки в коварной игре Анатолия Вассермана._   _В школьные годы Гриша Перельман проспорил Толе Вассерману шоколадку "Алёнка" в споре о бозонной модели теории струн._   _Хомячок Анатолия Вассермана возглавляет корпорацию "Microsoft"._   _Только близкие друзья знют, что очки Анатолия Вассермана выдолблены из цельного 17 киллограмового самородка альпийского горного хрусталя._   _Это Анатолий Вассерман изобрел борщ и отдых в Египте._   _Анатолий Вассерман спал один раз в жизни. 25 мая 2005го года_   _Анатолий Вассерман знает слово, которое было вначале._   _Каждая клетка головного мозга Анатолия Вессермана имеет IQ 200 и размером с крысу._   _Анатолий Вассерман какает поллонием._   _В кармане под номером ноль Анатолий Вассерман держит список содержимого всех карманов. А в кармане номер один — его_  _резервную копию._   _Отпечатки пальцев Анатолия Вассермана это фракталы Мандельброта._   _После ночи с Анатолием Вассерманом Памела Андерсон получила степень бакалавра космологии._   _Анатолий Вассерман полностью знает наизусть число Пи._   _Анатолий Вассерман настолько положительный человек, что когда он вступил в Аль–Каиду, эта организация получила нобелевскую_  _премию мира._   _В бороде анатолия Вассермана помещается два литра борща._   _Анатолий Вассерман снялся голым на развороте журнала "Популярная механика"._   _Очки Анатолия Вассермана сделаны из запасных линз орбитального телескопа имени Эдвина Хаббла._   _Это Анатолий Вассерман придумал секс, японскую поэзию и масонов._   _За один час работы мозг Анатолия Вассермана потребляет энергию, которой хватило бы для отопления трех детских садов._   _когда Анатолий Вассерман хочет куда то пойти, то он туда не идёт, а двигает вселенную навстречу себе_   _Карманы жилетки Анатолия Вассермана расширены в четвертое измерение._   _Когда Анатолий Вассерман хочет секса, он просто разрабатывает новую теорему, которая потом имеет весь научный мир._   _Когда Анатолию Вассерману становится скучно, он архивирует Вселенную._   _В одном из карманов Анатолия Вассермана лежит бутылка Кляйна._   _Анатолий Вассерман придумал ядерный реактор, в детстве разобрав соковыжималку._   _Анатолий Вассерман не дышит воздухом. Воздух дышит Анатолием Вассерманом._   _Вместо зарядки по утрам Анатолий Вассерман играет в шахматы со своим отражением в зеркале._   _Анатолий Вассерман отказался быть Президентом Земли. Он не разменивается по мелочам._   _Анатолий Вассерман тратит на одно мытье бороды 2 бутылька шампуня._   _За бородой Анатолия Вассермана нет подбородка, там еще один карман._   _Анатолий Вассерман не знает значения фразы "Анатолий Вассерман не знает"._   _Когда Анатолий Вассерман в очередной раз не смог найти подсолнечное масло для поджарки своих любимых гречишных оладушек, он придумал свет. Через несколько миллионов лет он оптимизировал свою идею до жилетки, в которой можно хранить все необходимое._   _Скинхеды стали брить головы после того как проиграли спор Анотолию Вассерману._   _Анатолий Вассрман единственный в мире человек который может доказать свою точку зрения Чат–боту._   _Свой дневник Вассерман ведет на ассемблере._   _Когда вы доламывали свою первую видеоприставку Анатолий Вассерман уже ушёл из ИТ_   _Анатолий Вассерман выиграл у Александры Пахмутовой в пахмуты._   _В правых карманах жилетки Анатолия Вассермана спрятано золото партии, а в левых — стабилизационный фонд РФ._   _ФИДЕ вовремя проплатила Вассерману. Поэтому шахматы до сих пор не решены._   _Мало кто знает, что Анатолий Вассерман обыграл Deep Blue в "Чапаевцев"_   _Малоизвестный факт: друг Анатолия Вассермана — Борис Бурда._   _Когда Анатолию Вассерману не хватает мелочи на новый осциллятор, он всегда идёт на вокзал, подходит к напёрсточникам и, неглядя, выигрывает._   _Раз в год Анатолий Вассерман сбрасывает жилетку и на несколько часов становится глупым и беззащитным._   _На днях, Анатолий Вассерман силой мысли совершил перестановки в правительстве._   _Вычислительная мощность Вассермана 57 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 операций с плавающей запятой в секунду_   _Ктулху — домашний осминог Анатолия Вассермана._   _Семенем Анатолия Вессермана можно оплодотворить Элтона Джона._   _Анатолий Вассерман без труда может вычленить квадратный корень из минус единицы. "_  Вся правда об Анатолии Вассермане | Статьи | Шуток нет - новые анекдоты, прикольные истории, афоризмы

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## BappaBa

> I'm practically sure that Egypt will soon be controlled by islamists.

 Присоединяюсь.

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## Eric C.

> It's not very important. I'm practically sure that Egypt will soon be controlled by islamists. The question is whether or not they would decide to block Suez Canal or not. I don't think it would be a wise move, but still there is such a probability. This would be a very difficult situation for Europe.

 Why islamists? You doom Egypt to be ruled either by a jerk keeping a curfew for 30 years or radical islamists???

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## Ramil

> Why islamists? You doom Egypt to be ruled either by a jerk keeping a curfew for 30 years or radical islamists???

 Oh, I forgot the probablility of civil war and turning Egypt in another Sudan, but I think I've told it already.

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## Crocodile

> " ..._Some Israelis regard Egypt as the most anti-Semitic country in the entire Middle East._ ..." ( HonestReporting )   This is sad. 
> No, I did not have any opinion about Egypt, did not know what was going on over there.

  Ok, thanks, I got the picture. Let me just show you one thing without any kind of pressure and I'll go back drifting like a log. Since the last Ice Age, as an alternative to the "some people say" approach, the humanity (among the other things) have invented a cool thing named _indicator_. What is that? If there's not enough _direct reliable_ information you can examine an _indirect reliable_ information and make some interpolation with a certain degree of confidence. Obviously, the more indicators you have, the greater the degree of confidence.  
Speaking of Egypt, let's try to create an indicator as an example. Say, we don't know *whether Egypt is the most anti-Semitic country in the entire Middle East or not*, but we want to find it out. If Egypt is the most anti-Semitic, then the Egyptians would prefer not to deal with the Israelis, and vice versa. Let's look at the direct flight schedule between Tel-Aviv and Cairo (FareCompare - Cheapest Airline Tickets, Cheap Flights, Travel Deals, Cheap Tickets and Discount Airfares   
That is a rather busy schedule for both Air Sinai (the Egyptian airlines) and El Al (the Israeli airlines). Compare that with the other routes from Israel to the other destinations in the Middle East and you'll get what I'm saying. The more indicators you have, the more accurate correlation with the reality you'll get. You don't need politicians or the so-called "political analysts" to make your own conclusions about what's around you. Since those guys operate with their personal impressions based on what they read in the newspapers rather than with the reliable information, no wonder they are wrong most of the time.  ::

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## Crocodile

> Клоун.

 So, first of all, I must say I do not agree with the EG's interpretation of Onotole here, as it seems to me Onotole was answering a different question. I "deeply respect" the journalists who think everyone but themselves is stupid.  ::  The situation might benefit the US, but it does not mean it was designed by the US. That claim looks especially funny since the former Egypt dictatorship was one of the most loyal to the US in the entire Muslim World. Having said that, I think the US was probably aware of what were about to happen to Egypt and did not interfere. Well, as I said, the Empire strikes back. It's rather amusing to see people believe in the omnipotence of the US so much, so that they are eager to interpret any major shift in power as the direct US involvement.  ::

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## Ramil

Wave of unrest spreads to Iran. The World Today - Wave of unrest spreads to Iran 15/02/2011 
So, that's what it was all about.

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## sperk

and in Bahrain too...all part of the plan, that and the bombings in Dagestan.  Protesters Clash With Police In Bahrain As Arab Unrest Spreads

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## Eric C.

> Wave of unrest spreads to Iran. The World Today - Wave of unrest spreads to Iran 15/02/2011 
> So, that's what it was all about.

 _Iranian authorities officially supported the uprising in Egypt. But it was a different story when the wave of unrest reached Tehran's streets on Monday._ 
They don't seem to have been bothered to figure out what they had in common with the Egyptian regime. But it's quite simple - they are both dictatorships, and each system like theirs is doomed to be overthrown, sooner or later. 
What about islamists, by the way? I guess everyone who was afraid of them coming to power in Egypt, is now supporting people of Iran in their struggle with the radical Islamic regime. Am I right?

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## Crocodile

> So, that's what it was all about.

 Yes, my young padawan learner. Much to learn you still have.  ::

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## Ramil

> Yes, my young padawan learner. Much to learn you still have.

 Guided by you I will be, master. Orchestrated by CIA all these coups were, doubt I not  ::

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## Crocodile

> Guided by you be I will, master.

 Witness the Great Empire strength unfolding. Meditate on the consequences and trust your feelings when it comes to action.  ::

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## Crocodile

> Orchestrated by CIA all these coups were, doubt I not

 Truly wonderful the mind of a child is. Much to learn you still have. Search your feelings: would an action on that scale be possible by the CIA to conduct without that being somehow-wiki-leaked a couple of weeks beforehand? Your feelings betray you not. The CIA is not an all-mighty, it's a bureaucracy, they can't do such things. Their primary job is to justify their expensive existence to the government. Most of the information is obtained legally, no need for the expensive undercover operations.

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## Ramil

Why Egypt needs democracy? There's no oil there.

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## Crocodile

> Why Egypt needs democracy? There's no oil there.

  Huh? What do you mean, there's no oil in Egypt? Natural Resources of Egypt 
"_The oil reserves of Egypt draw huge annual revenues from its export profits. [...] The newly discovered oilfields in the Mediterranean seabed have opened  up fresh opportunities for reviving the country's oil export business.  The 3.7 million barrel reserve that Egypt previously possessed, now have  more than doubled the reserve figures._"

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## Lampada

> ... Orchestrated by CIA all these coups were, doubt I not

 You have a high opinion of CIA, don't you?

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## Ramil

> Huh? What do you mean, there's no oil in Egypt? Natural Resources of Egypt

 Oh, that explains it  ::    

> You have a high opinion of CIA, don't you?

 Yes. They were behind everything bad that had hapenned since 1945, weren't they?  ::

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## Eric C.

> Yes. They were behind everything bad that had hapenned since 1945, weren't they?

 I hope it's just your sense of humor...

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## Ramil

::  Only partially. Oh, have they done something good when I wasn't looking?

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## Crocodile

> Only partially. Oh, have they done something good when I wasn't looking?

  Everything is measured in comparison. What have the Soviet Union done to the Middle East in those glorious days?  :: 
When it comes to Egypt, it was all sold inside out to the USSR until the mid 70 at which point it turned out it doesn't pay off to be allies with the USSR. Then Egypt found a new ally, the US and this way it got much more. Because of that, Egypt was one of the strongest allies to the US in the Middle East and, under Mubarak "Egypt was a member of the allied coalition in the 1991 Gulf War, and Egyptian infantry were some of the first to land in Saudi Arabia to evict Iraqi forces from Kuwait." (Hosni Mubarak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) The US did not have any apparent reasons to change Mubarak, it was done by someone else. However, the US didn't save his long-term ally either. The gratitude of the politicians is proverbial... yeah... 
Having said that, I'm not really sure what's the point of the caricature. It's not like the US didn't pay for the oil, did they? By the way, the Soviet Union exported their oil too, to those same capitalists, so why wouldn't they write СССР beside Ближний Восток?  ::  
As to the "blood" that is shed, I think the USSR should have sat quiet like a mouse, since the dominant majority of the Middle East countries have adopted the soviet weapons (until today) and the USSR was a major exporter of those weapons to the Middle East. On the other hand, Israel adopted NATO weapons. It has never been a secret the Middle East was a field testing for the soviet and the NATO weapons. (And not only the Middle East, by the way.)

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## gRomoZeka

> Everything is measured in comparison. What have the Soviet Union done to the Middle East in those glorious days?

 It gave a shitload of money to African and Middle Eastern developing states, along with sending civilian specialists - engineers, doctors, constructors- to help with making better living conditions for locals. The more intersting question is what it got in return - nothing tangible, in my opinion, just something to rub into USA face (nuh-nuh-nuh, there are more and more "Socialistic" states), and a lot of meaningless promises. USSR was arguably the only empire, that foolishly invested HUGE money in its "colonies" and allies, instead of draining them dry as any other self-respected empire did. 
Well, sure, we imported weapons too. Who did not at the time? ))

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## Hanna

> Why Egypt needs democracy? There's no oil there.

  Hehe... no... they were the exception to the rule... In their particular case... it seems in was "better" for them to have a 'stable' rule for 30 years. There is an American University there, for the elites, and Coca Cola for the masses,.... All good stuff... So no need to get too carried away with the democracy! (Particularly in view of the problems this would create for Israel.)
But of course, when it was a fait accompli, the tune was changed.   _The hypocrisy of suddenly condemning a regime it has propped up for 30 years is unbelievable. 
I would have respected the US more if it had actually stood by Mubarak. At least that means standing up to some principle... as opposed to being nothing but a manipulator, and when that fails, an opportunist._

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## sperk

> self-respecting empire

 =====

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## Ramil

> Everything is measured in comparison. What have the Soviet Union done to the Middle East in those glorious days?

 Many things, actually. Education, power plants, weapons, money, know-hows, etc.   

> Having said that, I'm not really sure what's the point of the caricature. It's not like the US didn't pay for the oil, did they? By the way, the Soviet Union exported their oil too, to those same capitalists, so why wouldn't they write СССР beside Ближний Восток?

 I was sure you'll recognize it because it's a very old one, made by Кукрыниксы.   

> As to the "blood" that is shed, I think the USSR should have sat quiet like a mouse, since the dominant majority of the Middle East countries have adopted the soviet weapons (until today) and the USSR was a major exporter of those weapons to the Middle East. On the other hand, Israel adopted NATO weapons. It has never been a secret the Middle East was a field testing for the soviet and the NATO weapons. (And not only the Middle East, by the way.)

 Yes, we've been selling giving them weapons sometimes for free and pursuing our own agenda, but weapons were only a part of it (see above).    

> [I]The hypocrisy of suddenly condemning a regime it has propped up for 30 years is unbelievable.

 Why? It was expected. Churchill once said 'Britain has no permanent allies, it only has permanent interests.' I don't see why US policy would differ from this.

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## Crocodile

> Many things, actually. Education, power plants, weapons, money, know-hows, etc.

 Ah, I see, when both you and Gromozeka replied similarly, it means it was my fault I didn't expressed myself correctly. I'll try to elaborate. For example, according to F.A.Q. on U.S. Aid to Egypt: Where Does the Money Go—And Who Decides How It’s Spent? - ProPublica since Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel, "_Egypt gets the most U.S. foreign aid of any country except for Israel. [...] The amount varies each year and there are many different funding  streams, but U.S. foreign assistance to Egypt has averaged just over $2  billion every year since 1979. [...] That average includes both military and economic assistance, though the latter has been in decline since 1998 [...] but is generally in the hundreds of millions annually._" In a nutshell, in terms of the aid the US had been doing for years pretty much the same thing that the USSR had been doing for years before that. With the soviet military aid, Egypt had started several wars against  Israel. Each time the blood was shed and the price of oil went up  (helping to boost the USSR economy as a by-product). So, what I meant was *the USSR and the US were both doing the same thing* developing Egyptian infrastructure and the Egyptian army and since everything is measured in comparison, the USSR wasn't entitled to criticize the US.    

> I was sure you'll recognize it because it's a very old one, made by Кукрыниксы.

 Ahm.. I'm not that old as you think I am.  ::  It's just you added that caricature to the context, so I asked you to explain why.  ::    

> _The hypocrisy of suddenly condemning a regime it has propped up for 30 years is unbelievable._

 That's what they call the politics, my dear.  ::   

> _I would have respected the US more if it had actually stood by Mubarak. At least that means standing up to some principle..._

 I think that is a very naive comment for someone who said she wants to become a politician. Do you think Mubarak was loyal to the US because he actually stood to a principle?????????  ::

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## Ramil

> according to F.A.Q. on U.S. Aid to Egypt: Where Does the Money Go—And Who Decides How It’s Spent? - ProPublica

 You masterly switched the context, sir crocodile. I wan't speaking of US, but of CIA. ))) 
  It was you who tried to oppose CIA (an organization) and USSR (a state).

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## Crocodile

> You masterly switched the context, sir crocodile. I wan't speaking of US, but of CIA. ))) 
>   It was you who tried to oppose CIA (an organization) and USSR (a state).

  Whoa!! Please, explain yourself. What do you mean I switched the context? I assumed the CIA reports to the US government as well as the KGB/GRU used to report to the USSR government. The USSR used to help Egypt and the US used to help Egypt. Both military and infrastructure-wise. Where do you think I crossed the line?

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## Ramil

> Whoa!! Please, explain yourself. What do you mean I switched the context?... Where do you think I crossed the line?

 
I think it happenned right bout there:   

> Originally Posted by Ramil    Only partially. Oh, have they done something good when I wasn't looking?   Everything is measured in comparison. What have the Soviet Union done to the Middle East in those glorious days?

 By 'they' I meant CIA (if you look at my previous remark)  ::    

> I assumed the CIA reports to the US government as well as the KGB/GRU used to report to the USSR government. The USSR used to help Egypt and the US used to help Egypt. Both military and infrastructure-wise.

 Come on, you should at least suspect that not everything CIA does it reports to the US Government, not to mention the people  ::  In fact, I think the government sometimes prefers not to know anything about their 'accomplishments' in order not to be embarassed later.

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## Crocodile

> By 'they' I meant CIA (if you look at my previous remark)

 Ah, ok. Sorry about that. I looked at the caricature and I had an impression those who allegedly 'milked' the Middle East wore some 'capitalistic uniform', so I thought it's about the capitalists, and mainly the US as the primary enemy of the USSR back then. I didn't think that you only meant the CIA wearing those 'capitalist' clothes. I'd say if the artist had the CIA in mind, he would probably picture some 'James Bond' kind of a guy with a smoking gun and a sex bomb or something like that. But, never mind, that's not important.    

> Come on, you should at least suspect that not everything CIA does it reports to the US Government

 Yes, I can agree with that. However, there's a HUGE distance between 'not everything' and make a series of revolutions in a couple of countries, won't you agree?  ::    

> In fact, I think the government sometimes prefers not to know anything about their 'accomplishments' in order not to be embarassed later.

 Yes, that is a good point. But again, the design of anything on a large scale cannot qualify as a 'black operation'.  ::  Come to think of it, I don't believe whenever the CIA boasts it was able to do something big like destroying the USSR from within by some kind of a smart tactics (i.e. keeping the oil down for a decade and stuff). Don't get me wrong, some of the CIA operatives are qualified enough to perform some very sophisticated things. But, when you try to design anything on a large scale, you notice the system is just too complex to be under control. Too many unpredictable/uncontrollable variables. And when you try to gather information about those variables, the situation had already changed.  ::

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## Ramil

Come on, I said I was only partly serious about that. I don't believe CIA orchestrated the Egyptian events. But still there were a number of 'revolutions' in other countries in which they played major roles.

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## Hanna

*
Bella ciao - Egypt... 
At the end are pictures of people who actually died in the protest. If anyone can read Arabic; what does it say? * Good luck and god bless to the people in Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Iran and elsewhere in the Middle East who are wanting a change! Hope no one else has to die.  **     _If someone is not familiar with this song: It's an old song for freedom fighters (during WW2, I think) and it's about someone who goes off to join the partisans, and says 'Goodbye my beautiful..... If I die, bury me in the mountains and plant flowers by my grave..'_

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## Hanna

Apparently both Mubarak and Ben-Ali got suddenly very sick after being ousted and both of them are in a coma. According to BBC.

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## Misha Tal

> *
> At the end are pictures of people who actually died in the protest. If anyone can read Arabic; what does it say?*

 My Arabic has never been perfect, and now after many years without practice, it's downright pathetic. But I'll try:  ::  
Those at the end are the names of the people in the pictures, and they are referred to as "martyrs". 
At 0:41, it's a rhyming verse, meaning something like: "Oh Army, Oh Tyrant! Beware of the formidable Almighty." Despite the rather threatening tone, no harm is meant: it's simply a reminder that whatever we do will be judged later. (See? Islamic beliefs can indeed be used in a good way!  :: )

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## Hanna

Thanks! You've got impressive language skills! I am aware of at least 4 languages that you can manage now - and quite different ones at that.

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## Crocodile

> " ..._Some Israelis regard Egypt as the most anti-Semitic country in the entire Middle East._ ..." ( HonestReporting )   This is sad.

 Lampada, just a quick follow-up regarding our olde talk about Egyptian-Israeli relations: BBC Russian - В мире - Нетаньяху: исход дипломатов не отменяет мир с Египтом 
"_... поскольку все понимают, что такое было невозможно при президенте Хосни Мубараке_" 
I know it might not change your mind, but at least I hope it could add some substance to my earlier claims that the Egyptian anti-semitic sentiments were not induced by Mubarak's regime. Cheers!

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## BappaBa



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