# Forum About Russia Travel and Tourism  Russia-Belorussia-Ukraine-Russia trip.

## Basil77

I'm planning Russia-Belorussia-Ukraine car trip next week. The purpose of the trip isn't exactly the touristic, I'm just visiting some relatives in both countries, but I'll take a camera with me and if it happen to make some interesting photos (although the weather in our latitudes now isn't perfect for photographing, but still), I could post them here, if someone interested. Here is the route that I plan:

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## fortheether

> I'm planning Russia-Belorussia-Ukraine car trip next week. The purpose of the trip isn't exactly the touristic, I'm just visiting some relatives in both countries, but I'll take a camera with me and if it happen to make some interesting photos (although the weather in our latitudes now isn't perfect for photographing, but still), I could post them here, if someone interested. Here is the route that I plan:

 
Yes please do post pictures.  Especially hot Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussian woman snaps! 
Thank you, 
Scott

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## sperk

Can you rent a car and do that?

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## Basil77

> Yes please do post pictures.  Especially hot Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussian woman snaps!

 Well, I'll hardly can make many photos of this type cause I'm going with my wife.   ::     

> Can you rent a car and do that?

 I don't need to, I already have one. Also as far as I know Moscow car rental services don't allow to use rent cars for remote (especially abroad) trips.

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## Basil77

Well, I'v returned and since I'v announced this trip here I think I have to give some report about it. The trip was nice, but as I wrote above it wasn't touristic so I haven't visit any historical sites or so. I just made some pictures from the road so I'll post some of them here. One sad remark: tonight, while watching the celebration of Berlin Wall Fall on TV, I was thinking about the fact that while Europe opened it's borders at that time and now celebrating this, we, here in former USSR, vice versa built up new borders and walls that never existed here before, I still remember the times, than you could cross for example Russian/Ukrainian border without even a stop only reading the sideroad sign "Ukraine (or whatever) welcomes you!"  ::   
About the trip. It's already late and I have to wake up rather early tomorrow (oops, already today), so I'll post a couple of pictures from the first part and will continue tomorrow. 
Tranzitting throw Moscow:     
The condition of the road to Belorussia (Minsk Federal Highway) is good, for Russia you could say even perfect, so it's just a pleasure to drive on it  :   
The weather was fine for that period of the year so I even pictured some contryside peisage from the car window (somewere in Smolensk region)  ::  :   
The are many war memorials along the road since there were many battles in that area during WWII and the War with Napoleon (I didn't picture them since their fotos could be found elsewere). Then you pass the Smolensk region by the Minsk Highway you cross the Dnepr river, and it's very small there. Then I cross it I am always remembering a quote from Gogol about "Rare bird, who can fly even half of the Dnepr's wideness".  ::   Of course he meant not THIS part of the river, but it's still funny for me. Unfortunately I'v been too lazy to stop and picture the river, sorry.  ::  
Soon I'v been at the Belorussian border. Russian and Belorussian citizens can cross it without stop (in case if they bought insurance police already). I stopped only to buy one (it works in Ukraine and Moldavia also). After crossing the border you can notice that you are in a different country (road signs in Belorussian; even some unknown for me road signs). 
Here is some crazy Belorussian road sign (I can only guess what it mean  ::  ):   
to be continued...

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## Hanna

Great pictures and interesting to hear about the trip. So you've got family in both these countries?    

> "Ukraine (or whatever) welcomes you!"

 Well - together you are stronger.... that's why we are uniting in Europe... They'll probably change their view on Russia back to generally positive eventually. Maybe when the Ukranian gov. changes.  Did your relatives have a view on it? 
I'd love to visit the historical towns and castles in Belarus... and Ukraine would be interesting too.   
Can I ask something...? Is Russia noticably better off than these countries? I mean do people in Russia live better? 
I think Orthodox churches are so incredibly cool looking... Did you take any more photos with churches?

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## Basil77

Sorry, I hadn't time yet to continue the report, I'll do it a bit later. Johanna, quick responce:  

> Great pictures and interesting to hear about the trip.

 Thanks.  

> So you've got family in both these countries?

 Yes. To be strict I have some relatives in Belorussia and my wife has some at Ukraine (she was born and raised there).  

> Did your relatives have a view on it?

 On ties with Russia? Of course. Absolutely all of them think that it's a tragedy that we live in separate countries now  

> Can I ask something...? Is Russia noticably better off than these countries? I mean do people in Russia live better?

 Noticably? No. After visiting all them three in short period of time I can compare and had the feeling that the best social conditions are in Belorussia. Of course if you live in Moscow or Kiev you have many possibilities that can't be found in Belorussia, but... If I have to live in a small provincial town or village I'll choose Belorussia without doubts.  

> I think Orthodox churches are so incredibly cool looking... Did you take any more photos with churches?

 Yes, a couple:  
This one locates in the city of Vitebsk, Belorussia.  
Town of Konotop, Ukraine.

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## Wowik

> I think Orthodox churches are so incredibly cool looking... Did you take any more photos with churches?
> 			
> 		  Yes, a couple:  
> This one locates in the city of Vitebsk, Belorussia.

 It is not truly Orthodox church. Initially it was a Catholic church.

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## Ramil

> I think Orthodox churches are so incredibly cool looking...

 Here's the masterpiece of the Byzantian style - Saint Sophia Cathedral in Kiev:   
And here's my favourite Gate and Resurrection Cathedral in the New Jerusalem monastery:

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## Wowik

> Here is some crazy Belorussian road sign (I can only guess what it mean  ):

   ::

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## Basil77

> It is not truly Orthodox church. Initially it was a Catholic church.

 Unfortunately I don't know the history of this exact church. Are you sure It was catholic in it's past? Today, as you can see, it has orthodox crosses on top. I found an article about it:  http://www.belarus-magazine.by/en.ph..._from=&ucat=4& 
The church was restored only several years ago, it was completely raized during WWII, as the rest of the city. The city itself is rather ancient (it was founded in 974), but it was almost completely destroyed during WWII. When Soviet army retook it from nazis in 1944 there were only 118 inhabitans alive from 200000 pre-war population and only a couple of buildings left. Today's population of the city is about half of a million. Unlike many other Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian ancient cities and towns since it's historical downtown was completely razed the city hasn't narrow streets in it's center. The streets are very wide. My impression from that trip about Vitebsk - very beautiful and clean. I wish to see it in summer full of flowers and blooming gardens and I hope I will have a possibility to go there next summer. Here are some extra pictures of Vitebsk that I made:       
P.S. The little bug on the last two pictures is my son. When I was trying to make these pictures he was constantly trying to appear in the focus of the camera. I told him: "Sonny, please come aside, daddy is going to make some pictures for posting in the net." He answered: "No prob, dad". Then I made shots. On the little camera screen this bug was unnoticable, I only saw him after downloading photos to PC.  ::

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## rockzmom

Basil, I know I am the over-emotional American female of the forum... but I must thank you sooooooo very much for once again allowing us into your life. You have no idea how much it means to me that you share your photos with us. Everytime I see photos of places I have never been and most likely will never get to go...and especially photos of a world which was closed off to me my entire youth, well... I just cannot explain it. Even the ones of the traffic jams on your daily drive to work!  You bring joy to me. Thank you.   ::

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## fortheether

As an American male I thank you also.  I love to see snaps of places I've never been. 
Scott

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## Basil77

Thanks to all of you who is interested. Special thanks to Johanna, Rockmom and Fortheether for kind words.  :: 
Well, I'll try to continue the story  ::  . After spending a couple of days in Vitebsk, I went to my next destination - Ukraine (exact point - some place in a contryside in Sumy region). The condition of the road from Vitebsk to Ukrainian border is perfect (I think that all main Belorussian road are in such condition), I had to cross the country of Belarus from it's north to south and the road lied before me:   
Belorussian province looks noticably better than Russian and Ukrainian. (Not so depressing, I haven't seen any abandoned building or uncultivated field. I think that it's so because they were lucky and recieved not such a huge amount of "West Democracy" poison  ::  ). I went out then it was still dark and made a picture of sunrise somethere in a contryside in Mogilev region:   
Interesting fact about Belorussian roads: they paint roadsigns right on the pavement in color (this picture made in the city of Gomel, Belorussia):   
A little while a beautiful country of Belorussia was behind and I came to the Ukrainian border:   
To be continued...

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## fortheether

Basil,
   Great snaps.  Next trip ditch the wife and get some snaps of hot Russian, Ukrainian, and Belorussian women also! 
(We really don't know each other so I have to say I'm just kidding.  But I'm not.)  
Scott

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## Ramil

> Originally Posted by Wowik  It is not truly Orthodox church. Initially it was a Catholic church.   Unfortunately I don't know the history of this exact church. Are you sure It was catholic in it's past? Today, as you can see, it has orthodox crosses on top. I found an article about it:

 The architecture is definitely catholic. Just remove orthodox crosses and you'll see a catholic church.
Just compare:

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## Wowik

> Unfortunately I don't know the history of this exact church. Are you sure It was catholic in it's past? Today, as you can see, it has orthodox crosses on top. I found an article about it: http://www.belarus-magazine.by/en.ph..._from=&ucat=4&

 Thanks for the article.
Here is one more:
Храм Воскресения Христова - http://www.vitebsk.orthodoxy.ru/temple/ ... tr12.shtml 
It was build as Uniat (Greek Catholic) church so the shape of the building is closer to Catholic churches than Orthodox churches. 
After uprising 1831 in Western part of Russian Empire all Uniat churches and even many Catholic churches became Orthodox. http://belchrist.narod.ru/pages/1_kanf_ ... k_1839.htm

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## Basil77

Belorussian/Ukrainian border is much harder to pass than Russian/Belorussian one (but IMHO still easier than Russian/Ukrainian). I had only one problem leaving Belarus territory - border guards ask me if I bought a tranzit ticket. Then I told them that anybody didn't even stopped me when I entered Belorussia, they told I still have to by a ticket, wich cost 15$. I was thinking about the variant to live Belorussia trough BY/RUS border (in Bryansk region) and to enter Ukraine from Russia but after a little thinking I decided that I'll spend more on gasoline. And then another problem appeared: for some reason Belorussian border guards refuse to take tranzit ticket payment in Belorussian roubles, they demanded only dollars or euros or Russian roubles. I'v got about a million of BY roubles (about 400$  ::  ) at that time and didn't know what to do with them, but when I tried to reason border officers (something about**: "it's your national currency, why can't you take it?") I was given only one answer: "The rules are so".  ::   The exchange course at the border bank was robbing (although I had to by some Ukrainian grivnas because my gas tank was almost empty at that moment and I had to by some gasoline soon), so I had to pay ticket's cost in Russian roubles. On that point formalities with Belorussian border guards were over and I went to the Ukraininan side of the border. Since I'v got an incurance already I hadn't pay nothing and after filling migration cards and passing customs and passport controls I was free to go to Ukraine territory. One funny thing: for somewhat reason Ukrainian border guards when you cross Ukrainian border by car put their stamps on the last page of the passport:   
At the same time their collegues on trains put the stamps as any other guards: at the first empty place in the passport:   
to be continued...

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## sperk

thanks for the report!

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## Hanna

It's totally insane that you get STAMPS in your passport for travelling in the ex-USSR.... You even speak the same langauge as these people and have family there!  
Surely the CIS countries could at least fix up some kind of Schengen-style arrangement.. ? This must be irritating for everybody, not just Russians..  
It's just like you said Basil -- in Europe we got more unity while you got more split up... *Sad!*   
To think that people died to defend the Soviet Union, and now people can't even pass the Belarus/Russia border without paying silly fees in foreign currency! *History can be such a crazy joke!* 
I can travel from Spain, Balticum, Iceland, UK, France.... ETC and NEVER get *any* stamps in my passport.. Needless to say I have nothing in common with Netherlands... or Hungary... Can't speak the same language and no family connections.. Yet it's an open border if you are driving. No checks, just a sign.

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## Hanna

> Saint Sophia Cathedral in Kiev

 *Gorgeous church! Thanks for posting that...!* 
If anyone reading this is bored... Why not make a thread about the top 10 nicest looking Orthodox churches?   _
When I went to school the story was  "There is no religion in the USSR, only some old people are religious..." Also that churches were used for storage and allowed to fall into disrepair... _  *But they seem to have made a great comeback!* 
There are lots of great pictures of churches on this site... 
It seems people were more religious than the official statistics.

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## Hanna

> Originally Posted by Basil77        Originally Posted by Wowik  It is not truly Orthodox church. Initially it was a Catholic church.   Unfortunately I don't know the history of this exact church. Are you sure It was catholic in it's past? Today, as you can see, it has orthodox crosses on top. I found an article about it:   The architecture is definitely catholic. Just remove orthodox crosses and you'll see a catholic church.
> Just compare:

 Hehe.....! To me it looks Orthodox... I think I've heard that Ukraine is acutally a mix of Orthodox and Catholic people though?  
But you can never know... Some churches were built Catholic but the country later became Lutheran... or people moved around due to religious wars etc....  
Here is an Orthodox church in Finland that looks EXACTLY like a Lutheran church. 
Helga Treenighetskyrkan, Helsinki

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## Wowik

> Here is an Orthodox church in Finland that looks EXACTLY like a Lutheran church. 
> Helga Treenighetskyrkan, Helsinki

 1. Сlassicism was popular in XIX century everywhere. 
2. The same architect Carl Ludvig Engel build some Lutheran church also. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ ... dvig_Engel
I like his buildings in Helsinki.   ::   
Orthodox Cathedral

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## Hanna

> Originally Posted by Johanna  Here is an Orthodox church in Finland that looks EXACTLY like a Lutheran church. 
> Helga Treenighetskyrkan, Helsinki   1. Сlassicism was popular in XIX century everywhere. 
> 2. The same architect Carl Ludvig Engel build some Lutheran church also. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ ... dvig_Engel
> I like his buildings in Helsinki.   Orthodox Cathedral

 Haha, yes you are right about that of course... 
I have walked past that building many times actually (I studied near there for a while). I don't think I realised it was a church at all! The entrance isn't visible from the street and it looks like it might be a government building, lol!!

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## rockzmom

Basil (and others)... as it has been pointed out several times, this is a language forum. So, even though I am very tardy with this, I would be remiss if I did not correct your postings. I'll work on your other ones soon.  ::     

> Well, I've returned and since I[s:1jnleige]&#39;v[/s:1jnleige] announced this trip here I think I have to give some report about it. The trip was nice, but as I wrote above it wasn't touristic so I [s:1jnleige]haven&#39;t[/s:1jnleige] didn't visit any historical sites or so. I just made some pictures from the road so I'll post some of them here. One sad remark: tonight, while watching the celebration of Berlin Wall Fall on TV, I was thinking about the fact that while Europe opened [s:1jnleige]it&#39;s[/s:1jnleige] its borders at that time and now celebrating this, we, here in the former USSR, are now vice versa and have built up new borders and walls that never existed here before[s:1jnleige],[/s:1jnleige]. I still remember the times[s:1jnleige], than[/s:1jnleige] when you could cross [s:1jnleige]for example[/s:1jnleige] the Russian/Ukrainian border without even [s:1jnleige]a[/s:1jnleige] having to stop and only a [s:1jnleige]reading the sideroad[/s:1jnleige] road sign stating "Ukraine (or whatever) welcomes you!" was there to greet you.   
> About the trip. It's already late and I have to wake up rather early tomorrow (oops, already today), so I'll post a couple of pictures from the first part and will continue tomorrow.  [s:1jnleige]Tranzitting throw[/s:1jnleige] Transiting through Moscow:   
> The weather was fine for that period of the year so I even took some picture[s:1jnleige]d[/s:1jnleige]s [s:1jnleige]some[/s:1jnleige] of the countryside [s:1jnleige]peisage[/s:1jnleige] from the car window (somewhere in Smolensk region)  :   
> The are many war memorials along the road [s:1jnleige]since[/s:1jnleige] as there were many battles fought in [s:1jnleige]that[/s:1jnleige] this area during WWII and the War with Napoleon (I didn't make photos [s:1jnleige]picture[/s:1jnleige] of them since their fotos [s:1jnleige]could[/s:1jnleige] can be found elsewhere). Then you pass the Smolensk region by the Minsk Highway and you cross the Dnepr river, [s:1jnleige]and[/s:1jnleige] where it's very [s:1jnleige]small[/s:1jnleige] narrow [s:1jnleige]there[/s:1jnleige]. [s:1jnleige]Then[/s:1jnleige] When I cross it I am always remembering a quote from Gogol about "Rare bird, who can fly even half of the Dnepr's wideness".   Of course he [s:1jnleige]meant[/s:1jnleige] did not mean THIS part of the river, but it's still funny for me. Unfortunately I[s:1jnleige]&#39;v been[/s:1jnleige] was too lazy to stop and [s:1jnleige]picture[/s:1jnleige] photograph the river, sorry.  
> Soon I'[s:1jnleige]v[/s:1jnleige] am [s:1jnleige]been[/s:1jnleige] at the Belorussian border. Russian and Belorussian citizens can cross it without stopping ([s:1jnleige]in case[/s:1jnleige] if they already bought insurance police [s:1jnleige]already[/s:1jnleige]) (basil, I am certain there is a better term for "insurance police" maybe a "visa"?) . I stopped only to buy one (it works in Ukraine and Moldavia also). After crossing the border you can notice that you are in a different country (road signs in Belorussian; even some unknown for me road signs).

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## Basil77

> basil, I am certain there is a better term for "insurance police" maybe a "visa"?

 Thanks for corrections, rockzmom!  ::   It's awful how many stupid mistakes I've made!  ::   ::  I should re-read my posts more carefully. About visa. The citizens of Russian Federation don't need a visa to go to Belarus or Ukraine. But we must buy insurance in case a road accident occurs (the Russian insurance isn't valid abroad).

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## katerinaG

Beautiful photos!!   ::

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  basil, I am certain there is a better term for "insurance police" maybe a "visa"?    About visa. The citizens of Russian Federation don't need a visa to go to Belarus or Ukraine. But we must buy insurance in case a road accident occur[s:1pcw6h45]e[/s:1pcw6h45]s (the Russian insurance isn't valid abroad).

 Ahhh... okay then. It would be "Russian and Belorussian citizens can cross it (probably should be "the border" and not "it") without stopping [s:1pcw6h45](in case[/s:1pcw6h45] if they already bought [s:1pcw6h45]insurance police already)[/s:1pcw6h45] the mandatory auto insurance which needs to be purchased ... (how? at a police station or the border crossing?)."    

> It's awful[s:1pcw6h45]l[/s:1pcw6h45] how many stupid mistakes I've made!   I should re-read my posts more carefully.

   Not to worry! This first one you said you wrote when it was very late!  And besides, your English is still about a million times better than my Russian.

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## Hanna

Re Rockzmom's corrections. Respect to you girl...   ::   ::    Re the standard of Basil77's English: Actually, *you didn't make any serious, irritating or confusing mistakes*. I was so interested in the content that I didn't think of it. Nothing was unclear. 
I work with people here in London who are very successful in IT ($$$) but who would make a lot more mistakes in a text like this than you did.  
I suppose for some jobs it's necessary to sound "near native"...  But for many jobs it doesn't matter and being a non-native English speaker can work in your favour.  
One thing I'd recommend is to read a culture guide to the main English speaking countries.  Such as the "Culture Shock" series. The worst problems I have come across are to do with culture / behaviour confusion and misunderstandings, not the language per se. 
Yes, I know it STINKS to have to adopt ones manners to English-speaking "standards", but for practical reasons it's good to be 100% familiar with them, depending on what you plan to use your English for.

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## Basil77

> how? at a police station or the border crossing?

 Any insurance company agent can sell it. And since they have some profit from it they are more than willing to sell it to you. There are plenty of these agents at any border check points, they are residing in cars, little booths, wagons etc., and of course they have advertising signs, you just can't miss them.

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## Basil77

My Internet connection was very slow for last couple of weeks for some reason so I couldn't upload any more photos. It's fixed now so I can continue. So, I came to Ukraine. Road to Kiev in Chernigov region:   
Then I turned to Moscow-Kiev road. It's condition is perfect (the part in Ukraine, the Russian part was horrible when I travel by it last spring):   
A little while I turned to the local road. And immediately saw many signs that I entered agricultural countryside. Cows and gees on the road, horses etc.:       
Ukrainian countrysiade have a fascinating feature: stork nests everywere: on roofs, chimney tubes etc. At this time the birds are migrated for the winter so I'll post a couple of pictures of stork nest from my previous trip in summer:

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## Basil77

On the way to my mother-in-law house in a small Ukrainian village I passed several small towns:     
Although this part of the country speaks Ukrainian (to be strict they speak so-called "Surjik", a mix of Ukrainian and Russian), some signs are in Russian:   
The last several kilometers to my destination point were very challenging because the road barely exists where. Also it's a "black earth" region so the dirt is very greasy and slippery so it was more like a rally. My wife panicked:" AAA!!! We'll stuck here! We'll turn over the car's top!", but my son thinks that it was the coolest part of the trip. You can imagine how my car looked like after driving 15 km by the roads like this:   
After spending several day's at my mother-in-law we finally came to the Russian border:

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## Hanna

Great pictures Bas  - you really have an eye for the interesting details. 
Thanks for sharing them! 
"Black earth" is very fertile soil, isn't it?

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## Basil77

> Great pictures Bas  - you really have an eye for the interesting details.

 Thanks!  ::     

> "Black earth" is very fertile soil, isn't it?

 Yep.

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## gRomoZeka

Great report, *Basil77*!It feels almost like we travelled there with you.   ::

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## Basil77

> Great report, *Basil77*!It feels almost like we travelled there with you.

 Спасибо, Женя!   ::   
And finally some pictures from the last part of the trip.
Zheleznogorsk, the center of Kursk magnetic anomaly (anomaly means that magnetic compass doesn't work there):   
Globalization, як вона є (Coca-cola plant in the city of Oryol):   
Some funny village names:   
Translation: "Long cheek"   
"First warrior"   
"Free sickle"

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## fortheether

Great stuff Basil77!  Thank you.  If you are interested I can post snaps of a trip from New Jersey to New York State.  Boring stuff actually.   
Scott

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## Basil77

> Great stuff Basil77!  Thank you.  If you are interested I can post snaps of a trip from New Jersey to New York State.  Boring stuff actually.   
> Scott

 Thanks! Boring stuff for you, who lives in U.S. But for people like me, who have never been there and probably never will such pictures can be very interesting!   ::

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## Hanna

Exactly, fortheether, why don't you post them?
I have no idea what that looks like either - my guess would be 5 lane motorways and roadstops?  
Would be nice to see what that precisely that looks like.  
I for one like pictures of "regular" things and "regular people".

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## fortheether

> Originally Posted by fortheether  Great stuff Basil77!  Thank you.  If you are interested I can post snaps of a trip from New Jersey to New York State.  Boring stuff actually.   
> Scott   Thanks! Boring stuff for you, who lives in U.S. But for people like me, who have never been there and probably never will such pictures can be very interesting!

 Basil/Johanna,
   I'll post some snaps soon for the trip and about my town.   
Scott

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