# Forum Other Languages Germanic languages German  Letzebuergisch

## VendingMachine

Anyone speak Letzebuergisch?

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## bad manners

Why?

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## Евгения Белякова

What is that?

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## Старик

That's the German dialect which is spoken in Luxemburg.
Besides French it is one of the official languages of this country.

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## Евгения Белякова

Would other German parts be able to understand? What if you are from Frankfurt?

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## Старик

If sombody from Frankfurt hears this language he will only partly understand what is spoken. But in genral I think he will grasp "о чем идет речь"

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## Евгения Белякова

How close would you say Dutch is to German? Can you understand Dutch since you know German? I was wondering of Frankfurt because Anne Frank was from there. How many dialects are there in Germany? 
(Sorry to anyone, I am off topic)

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## Старик

> How close would you say Dutch is to German? Can you understand Dutch since you know German? I was wondering of Frankfurt because Anne Frank was from there. How many dialects are there in Germany? 
> (Sorry to anyone, I am off topic)

 No, I don't understand Dutch. If I hear a Dutch speaker I only understand some words and phrases. But that is because I'm from southern Germany. German dialects near the Dutch boarder are quite similar to Dutch so that Germans who live in these areas often have no problems to converse with Dutch people.
I don't believe that you can give a certain number of dialects in Germany. It depends on how you define when two diealects should be looked upon as different.
In the area where I grew up I could tell from the kind how people spoke from which village they came i.e. each small village had it's own dialect. But otusiders from other areas typically could not hear any difference.

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## Евгения Белякова

I understand. Is Frankfurt close to The Netherlands? Would people in this city be able to understand it better?

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## Pravit

No, Frankfurt is around the southwest of Germany. I never got a chance to see the city itself, but I did get to navigate its labyrinthine airport twice  ::

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## waxwing

I guess people in Trier might understand it pretty well. Most Germans would struggle I think.
By the way, if you're ever in the world's second biggest illicit loot storage center, as I like to call it, avoid calling this language a German dialect (even if it is). They won't be exactly ecstatic at hearing that  ::

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## VendingMachine

No, the people in Frankfurt won't have a chance. Even the people in Westfalen who live near the Dutch border will not understand fluent Dutch (only a few words here and there) - only those who speak the local dialect, Westfalischer Platt, for instance, will be able to understand the Dutch from the border regions (because they too will be speaking a dialect of Dutch close to the Platt in Germany, not your "classical" or "proper" Dutch). Unfortunately, very few people speak Westfalischer Platt nowadays - most young people speak more or less Hochdeutsch albeit with a greater or lesser degree of a local accent. Young people there won't even be able to understand the dialect of their grandfathers, just a few common expressions, but that's not enough to understand real Dutch as it is spoken, say, in Amsterdam. The reason why the Germans often have no problem communicating with the Dutch is because in the majority of cases the Dutch are the ones who learn to speak the other party's language. When I was living in Westfalen I was constantly travelling to Holland and back to Germany and I was regularly witnessing the following situation (both on the German and on the Dutch side) - the Germans would adress the Dutch in German, without even asking them sprechen Sie Deutsch, and the Dutch would always reply in German.

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## waxwing

Sorry I got confused in my last post. I thought you were talking about Letzebuergesch but you were talking about Dutch   ::

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## bad manners

> I guess people in Trier might understand it pretty well. Most Germans would struggle I think.
> By the way, if you're ever in the world's second biggest illicit loot storage center, as I like to call it, avoid calling this language a German dialect (even if it is). They won't be exactly ecstatic at hearing that

 Not true. Most of them understand very well that their language is nothing but a German dialect. What makes it special is the French influence, which is both in the vocabulary and in the grammar.

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## waxwing

Well, I'm sure you're right at one level - if they have half a brain they know it's a German dialect with French influences rather than vice versa, or something else. It's just a historical/political point - they don't like to be considered as part of the Germanic world, for obvious reasons.

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## bad manners

That's right. But I'd say that are more relaxed about purely linguistic issues these days.

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## Евгения Белякова

VendingMachine: Do you speak Letzebuergisch?

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## VendingMachine

> VendingMachine: Do you speak Letzebuergisch?

 Not yet. But any day now.

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## Евгения Белякова

I'm sorry for being random and off topic, but you speak Russian and English? Any other languages?

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## VendingMachine

Yes, there are some.

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## bad manners

> Originally Posted by Евгения Белякова  VendingMachine: Do you speak Letzebuergisch?   Not yet. But any day now.

 What for? Probably the most useless language in the world.

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## VendingMachine

[quote=bad manners] 

> Originally Posted by "Евгения Белякова":q694rjtj  VendingMachine: Do you speak Letzebuergisch?   Not yet. But any day now.

 What for? Probably the most useless language in the world.[/quote:q694rjtj]There's no such thing as a useless language. I just happen to find it beautiful (after Afrikaans and Danish) and that's what for enough for me to want to learn more about it.

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## Евгения Белякова

I agree with VendingMachine.

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## bad manners

> There's no such thing as a useless language. I just happen to find it beautiful (after Afrikaans and Danish) and that's what for enough for me to want to learn more about it.

 Any native speaker of that language speaks some other language as well. This language is completely superfluous. That is why it is useless. 
And it is not even a language.

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by VendingMachine  There's no such thing as a useless language. I just happen to find it beautiful (after Afrikaans and Danish) and that's what for enough for me to want to learn more about it.   Any native speaker of that language speaks some other language as well. This language is completely superfluous. That is why it is useless. 
> And it is not even a language.

 'Usefulness' of a language is never a reason for me to study it. I'm well aware of the fact that everyone from Luxemburg speaks perfect German and French and yes, Letzebuergisch is a dialect of German (probably related to the one they speak in Saarland in a way), so what? Do you speak Letzeburgisch, bad manners? No? Then butt out. Why are you so hell bent on dissuading me from studying it? My linguistical tastes are hardly any of your business.

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## bad manners

> I'm well aware of the fact that everyone from Luxemburg speaks perfect German and French and yes

 Wrong.   

> Letzebuergisch is a dialect of German

 If you write "Letzebuergisch" then you should also write "Deutsch".   

> Do you speak Letzeburgisch, bad manners? No? Then butt out.

 And if the answer is "yes"?   

> Why are you so hell bent on dissuading me from studying it?

 Am I? I am simply dealing with your prior argument that "There's no such thing as a useless language." Even though now it is merely "'Usefulness' of a language is never a reason for me to study it."

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## Евгения Белякова

If VendingMachine wants to study this language, he should. His reasons I think are good reasons to study any language. I do think to study useful language is good because you can use it more, but to study a non useful language because of it's beauty and interest in it is a good reason too. If you have passion about any language, that is good enough.

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## waxwing

As a 2.5 year veteran of the Duchy, I wholeheartedly concur with BM on each of the above points. I was trying to think of something equally useless but at the same time still in use. Nothing quite fit . Old British languages such as Cornish and Welsh do at least deserve the title of separate language ( I mean to say that they're quite separate from English..), as do things like Udmurt in Russia .. but the difference is that the population that actually bothers to speak these languages in everday life must be tiny, and that's not quite true with Letzebuergesch.
I can't think of another example quite like Letzebuergesch. Prob. if places like Monaco and Lichtenstein have their own languages/dialects it's something similar. How about Romansch in Switzerland?  ::  
As a curiosity, it is of course very interesting, nothing to argue about there. One can be interested by virtually anything. 
[PS Just to explain one point, the oldsters usually speak French OR German, depending on their upbringing whereas all the youngsters speak both (they are schooled in both) and usually English too, if they have a brain. Come to think of it a fairly large percentage of the Luxembourg city dwellers speak Portuguese  :: ] 
If you are curious, the most useful language to speak in Luxembourg city is, I think, French. Outside the city, it's a slightly more complicated equation.

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## VendingMachine

> Just to explain one point, the oldsters usually speak French OR German, depending on their upbringing whereas all the youngsters speak both.

 Utter nonsence. I have some people from Luxemburg living next door (visiting professor at our Uni and his family) - they *always* speak Letzebuergesch among themselves. And no matter how early in their lives they master French and German they are still foreign languages to them. 
Anyway, if you can't help me with my Letzebuergesch, I don't see why you should be posting to this thread at all.

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## waxwing

> Originally Posted by waxwing  Just to explain one point, the oldsters usually speak French OR German, depending on their upbringing whereas all the youngsters speak both.   Utter nonsence. I have some people from Luxemburg living next door (visiting professor at our Uni and his family)

   ::   yeah yeah right.  
btw sort it out with the spelling will you - nonsen*s*e.  
I can help you on this point: whilst you've started spelling Letzebuergesch properly (you didn't notice my first correction eh?) .. perhaps you should start working on 'Luxembourg' (although of course we'll accept Letzebuerg).
It is, as always, an unalloyed pleasure to help.

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## VendingMachine

I don't no wot your on about, *waxwing*. Wot I do no is that ewe've never bean to Luxemburg (http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictiona ... =luxemburg) and you know nothig about Letzebuergisch - that's one of the possible German spellings, by the way, your spelling isn't correct at all - in proper Letzebuergisch they spell the first e as the Russian ё, that is Lёtzebuergesch - you wanted to extract the Michael out of my spelling but you simply made a fool of yourself. 
I live in a very posh block of flats - we often get visiting professors from Europe and North America and one of my neighbours is actually a dean. (I don't expect you to have met a dean in real life, but I trust you have enough general knowledge to know what the word means.)

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## waxwing

Of course letzebuergisch and luxemburg are German spellings, however as far as I can tell, we're not posting in German here are we? I've already tried to explain how people there perceive it if you try to assume that they're part of Germany. See how helpful I am? 
You've already made a massive cultural gaffe by putting this thread in the German lounge, let's not compound it eh? 
We're posting in English, in which case you need Luxembourg and, as I say, Letzebuerg is fine since you're trying to learn the language 'n all. 
To write 'Luxemburg' in English is rather like writing 'color'. Nuff said.  
Lёtzebuergesch
good one - but since this is not the Russian ё I think we should avoid confusion.     

> I live in a very posh block of flats

 Does it have a podezd?   

> Wot I do no is that ewe've never bean to Luxemburg...
> I don't expect you to have met a dean in real life...

 Oh I'm SO offended!!   ::  Enjoy learning this fantastically useful language with your incorporeal friends!

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## VendingMachine

> You've already made a massive cultural gaffe by putting this thread in the German lounge, let's not compound it eh?

 There is no Lёtzebuergesch lounge here and you ruddy well know it.    

> We're posting in English, in which case you need Luxembourg and, as I say, Letzebuerg is fine since you're trying to learn the language 'n all.

 Wannabe editor with an oedipous complex.   

> To write 'Luxemburg' in English is rather like writing 'color'. Nuff said.

 I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to offend your Royal Limeness.    

> Lёtzebuergesch
> good one - but since this is not the Russian ё I think we should avoid confusion.

   I said *like* the Russian ё - it's the closest I can get on my keyboard.   

> Does it have a podezd?

 What is a 'podezd'? It has a "paradnoe", I know not what podezd means unless you mean 'driveway'.   

> Enjoy learning this fantastically useful language with your incorporeal friends!

 You are pathetic. Having nothing useful to say on the subject you resorted to personal attacks. You are a troll, sir. You are the one who made this topic spirall off into offtopic realms. Good day to you, sir.

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## bad manners

> Anyway, if you can't help me with my Letzebuergesch, I don't see why you should be posting to this thread at all.

 If there is some Luxembourgish professor living next door, he is all the help you will ever need. What I do not understand though is what kind of professor he is, given the lack of universities in Luxembourg.   

> There is no Lёtzebuergesch lounge here and you ruddy well know it.

 There are lounges for languages, not dialects. Or shall we need a Bavarian lounge as well? BTW, here is another "language" for you to admire, a severely screwed dialect with diminutives galore.

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> What I do not understand though is what kind of professor he is, given the lack of universities in Luxembourg.

 The fact that there are no universities in Luxem*burg* doesn't mean that there are no professors of mathematics who come from Luxem*burg*. He studied in Belgium and this is where he teaches but he comes from Luxemburg and so does his entire family.   

> [quote:3vuf4a47]There is no Lёtzebuergesch lounge here and you ruddy well know it.

 There are lounges for languages, not dialects. Or shall we need a Bavarian lounge as well? [/quote:3vuf4a47]That's exactly my point. Get yourself a pair of glasses.   

> BTW, here is another "language" for you to admire, a severely screwed dialect with diminutives galore.

 Thank you, where would I be without you. Unfortunately, I don't drink beer by the masl.

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## waxwing

> We're posting in English, in which case you need Luxembourg and, as I say, Letzebuerg is fine since you're trying to learn the language 'n all.
> 			
> 		  Wannabe editor with an oedipous complex.

 Was this 'oedipous' a subtle joke on the theme? If not, I'm here a-editin' again! If so, well done  ::  
'spiral' is another one.   

> Does it have a podezd?
> 			
> 		  What is a 'podezd'? It has a "paradnoe", I know not what podezd means unless you mean 'driveway'.

 Don't tell me you've forgotten our wonderful little chat on this subject already?! Short term memory loss, or a more serious condition I wonder...

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## bad manners

> Unfortunately, I don't drink beer by the masl.

 Then you should not care about Luxembourgish, too.

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by Anonymous  Unfortunately, I don't drink beer by the masl.   Then you should not care about Luxembourgish, too.

 And why's that? I said I wouldn't learn a language just because it was "useful" - I learn only those languages I like. I don't find _boarisch_ that much attractive. I don't care how use_ful_ or use_less_ it might be. I think the world of Lёtzebuergesch and that alone is reason enough for me.  
P.S. Need I remind you that I hardly find it necessary to discuss my language learning priorities with you, Segnor Bizibodi?

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## bad manners

> Originally Posted by bad manners        Originally Posted by Anonymous  Unfortunately, I don't drink beer by the masl.   Then you should not care about Luxembourgish, too.   And why's that?

 I gathered that your dislike of beer somehow prevented you from studying the Bavarian dialect. Then I felt it my duty to warn you that Luxembourg is just as big on beer as Bavaria is (both produce the same kind of piss-resembling (and probably tasting) liquid, BTW).   

> I said I wouldn't learn a language just because it was "useful" - I learn only those languages I like.

 I am not discussing its usefulness anymore. Get on with that.   

> P.S. Need I remind you that I hardly find it necessary to discuss my language learning priorities with you, Segnor Bizibodi?

 Need I remind you that anything you don't feel like discussing should not be posted on Internet forums? 
Wei geet et, BTW?

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> I gathered that your dislike of beer somehow prevented you from studying the Bavarian dialect.

 You gathered incorrectly. Go and put everything back where you took it from.   

> I am not discussing its usefulness anymore. Get on with that.

 Indeed you aren't. You seldom stick to your original arguments.   

> Need I remind you that anything you don't feel like discussing should not be posted on Internet forums?

 Rubbish. I didn't post anything I didn't feel like discussing. This is not a discussion of whether one should or shouldn't study Lёtzebuergesch.    

> Wei geet et, BTW?

 Gei futti, bad manners. Du geess mir op d'Schlappen.

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## Евгения Белякова

Bad manners, do you speak Letzebuergisch?

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## bad manners

> Originally Posted by bad manners  I gathered that your dislike of beer somehow prevented you from studying the Bavarian dialect.   You gathered incorrectly. Go and put everything back where you took it from.

 OK. So you do drink beer by the masl, then. So when are you going to start a pointless discussion on Bavarian?   

> [quote:343i68bs]I am not discussing its usefulness anymore. Get on with that.

 Indeed you aren't. You seldom stick to your original arguments.[/quote:343i68bs]
My arguments? My arguments were that the above mentioned language is useless. But I am not discussing that anymore, because I'm perfectly OK with your wasting your worthless time on an equally worthless language.   

> [quote:343i68bs]Need I remind you that anything you don't feel like discussing should not be posted on Internet forums?

 Rubbish. I didn't post anything I didn't feel like discussing. This is not a discussion of whether one should or shouldn't study Lёtzebuergesch. [/quote:343i68bs]
Which is fine, because as I admitted earlier I am not discouraging you from learning this useless language.   

> [quote:343i68bs]Wei geet et, BTW?

 Gei futti, bad manners. Du geess mir op d'Schlappen.[/quote:343i68bs]
As a person recently advocating severe punishment for use of foul language, you are not very polite. To say nothing about the grammar. Did you learn it from your Croatian friend naturalised in Luxembourg educated in Belgium?

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## Евгения Белякова

There is no such thing as a worthless language, bad manners. There are languages that are useful, or not useful(as you know) but no language is 'worthless'.

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## bad manners

You are right. It is not entirely worthless. I even know a category of people who value it very highly. To become a teller in a Luxembourg-based bank, one must speak that language.

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## VendingMachine

My Lёtzebuergesch is perfect. Perfect_er_ than yours. And as far as swearing is concerned, I was talking about swearing in Russian, not the heavenly Lёtzebuergesch. All right me old bean? 
I'm getting the feeling that you envy me - obviously you've wanted to learn Lёtzebuergesch all your life and now that I've got a real opportunity to become fluent in it you're all green with envy.   ::

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## waxwing

> You are right. It is not entirely worthless. I even know a category of people who value it very highly. To become a teller in a Luxembourg-based bank, one must speak that language.

 Good point. But here's a question: do you think they'd allow a non-native to take such a job, in the unlikely event that they were fluent in the lingo? 
The interesting thing is that, despite the fact that French is supposedly the official administrative language of the Grand Duchy*, they will hire non-French-speakers in customer service roles in banks. Customer service is a bit of an issue in Luxembourg, a country where all the taxi drivers run a top-of-the-range Mercedez Benz. 
*arguably not the only, but the main admin. lang.

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## bad manners

> My Lёtzebuergesch is perfect. Perfect_er_ than yours.

 Question of definitions, I guess.   

> obviously you've wanted to learn Lёtzebuergesch all your life

 I've actually wanted not to know that language for a quite some time.

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## bad manners

> Good point. But here's a question: do you think they'd allow a non-native to take such a job, in the unlikely event that they were fluent in the lingo?

 Native or not, it all boils down to connections in the end. Teller positions are very popular with the native Luxembourgers, you know.   

> French is supposedly the official administrative language of the Grand Duchy* ... *arguably not the only, but the main admin. lang.

 It is. All state papers are issued in French, all road signs are posted in French. The only exception is the local administration, who might do it in French and German. Luxembourgish is almost not used by administration, except for some slogans and fliers.

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## waxwing

> Originally Posted by waxwing  Good point. But here's a question: do you think they'd allow a non-native to take such a job, in the unlikely event that they were fluent in the lingo?   Native or not, it all boils down to connections in the end. Teller positions are very popular with the native Luxembourgers, you know.

 That was kind of the point I was trying to make.. I did have a bank account there, you know  ::    

> [quote:21lv6he6]French is supposedly the official administrative language of the Grand Duchy* ... *arguably not the only, but the main admin. lang.

 It is. All state papers are issued in French, all road signs are posted in French. The only exception is the local administration, who might do it in French and German. Luxembourgish is almost not used by administration, except for some slogans and fliers.[/quote:21lv6he6] 
Yes I got the impression that maybe there were some local newspapers and newsletters in Luxembourgish, and that's it. But I kind of deliberately avoided it, to tell the truth, as I did German while I was there .. the polyglots on here are horrified, I'm sure   ::   
So, you've lived there yourself, right? Still do?

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