# Forum About Russia Travel and Tourism  University of Tartu, University of Latvia

## Pravit

My university's got exchange programs with various universities. For Russian the only ones they've got are the University of Tartu and the University of Latvia. I might consider going, because all I have to do is pay for the air tickets and room and board. Anyone know something about these universities? I'm going to be majoring in electrical engineering, somebody know if I could take EE classes at these schools? It's too bad there aren't any Russian universities in ISEP...Is Russian still widely spoken in the Baltic nations? What language do you think the classes would be in?  
Of course, there's Technische Universit

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## drew881

I know Latvia just passed a bill that all education courses be taught in Latvian, however im not sure if that extended to the uiversity level.  It might just be for public schools.  It definately pissed off a lot of Russians who still live in latvia.     
When I was in Riga, seemed like a good number of people spoke english so who knows, maybe you would get lucky.   
Also, you dont have to necessarily go on a school program.  Look at what your school accepts for transferring credit.  A number of colleges dont have a program, but will be affiliated with another university or program and it is very easy to transfer credits.

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## Pravit

Thanks for your response. I looked into it more and found that it's not really a school program. It's something called ISEP(international student exchange program, and for those wanting to know how to pronounce the acronym, I'd say "eye-sep"   ::   ) and I think people from any university can apply for it. I'll look more into programs dealing specifically with Russian schools, although I'll most likely just go to Germany. As for Latvians speaking English, that's nice, but I was hoping that more of them would speak Russian   ::   I want to immerse myself in a Russian-speaking environment.

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## JJ

> As for Latvians speaking English, that's nice, but I was hoping that more of them would speak Russian

 As I know there are about 35% of Russian-speaking natives in Latvia and most of them are "non-citizens", and now officials make everything for genocide all "non-citizens" - whos relatives didn't live in Latvia before 1940.
BTW, I guess Latvia is the only one country where is an annual parade of latvians SS-veterans.

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## bad manners

I would not recommend going there for a "Russian immersion". It might be compared with going to India to learn English, only it is much worse in Latvia: the Indians got rid of the English long time ago and English is the international language; the Latvians got rid of the Russian big brother just a few years ago, and Russian is not all that important in that region (as they trying to integrate with the EU, not Russia).

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## waxwing

> I would not recommend going there for a "Russian immersion". It might be compared with going to India to learn English, only it is much worse in Latvia: the Indians got rid of the English long time ago and English is the international language; the Latvians got rid of the Russian big brother just a few years ago, and Russian is not all that important in that region (as they trying to integrate with the EU, not Russia).

 Yes, I heard as much. Actually I was recently considering a job in Georgia. Amongst other reasons (insecurity), I decided against it because it might not be much fun trying to learn Russian there. They have a rather incredible language of their own, and whilst there is a lot of Russian spoken there, they might not be keen on teaching you about what they consider as their 'past'.
Could we make a list of how much Russian is spoken, and how it's perceived, in each of the ex-Soviet states?
Clearly it's still important, massively so, in all of those countries (consider TV for example). But which would be good for a Russian learner? 
I'd guess Belarus would be the best one from the point of view of Russian language. Ukraine might not be too bad. Clearly Latvia is not a good one.

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## JJ

> Could we make a list of how much Russian is spoken, and how it's perceived, in each of the ex-Soviet states?

 As I know Ukrainians and Belarussians wide use Russian language - about Ukraine I know it from my friend, his cousin from Kiev came in my city last summer, I didn't notice any accent, his prononcation was close to moscow's pronouncation. About Belarus - my wife's friend's relatives came in my city a couple of years ago, they're living in Minsk and as I remember my wife didn't tell me about their accent. My friend's wife is from Tajikistan, she is half-tajic and half-korean and she speak perfect russian and Tajick languages. Her relatives - her sister, a sister's little son and thier nephew came from Dushanbeh 2 years ago - all of them speak russian absolutely normal. 
There are a lot of kazakh here on the markets. They are not well educated people so they speak with accent but one of my friend went to Kazakhstan last year and she didn't tell me about some special Kazakh pronouncation - they all speak good russian in the cities.

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## JJ

BTW, there is a programm on TV like "Candid camera" they make it in Ukraine, so I've never heard in this program that people in the streets speak another language than Russian.

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## bad manners

> BTW, there is a programm on TV like "Candid camera" they make it in Ukraine, so I've never heard in this program that people in the streets speak another language than Russian.

 It could be they delete non-Russian content because they obviously want to trade that in Russia. Just like the RTL channels broadcasted in Germany have no French content, even though the L in RTL stands for Luxembourg.

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## JJ

> It could be they delete non-Russian content because they obviously want to trade that in Russia.

 I'm not sure about that. I've read some articles (in Ukrainian too) where the authors say the problem is that even people who called theirselves Ukrainian can not speak in рiдна мова more than 5 minutes...

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## Pravit

I suppose Estonia would also not be a very good choice. Germany then, unless I find a better program. I might go one one of those summer language courses hosted by MGU or one of those St. Petersburg universities. 
Кстати, а говорит ли твой друг "суржик"? Я переписываюсь с одной девченкой с Украины. Она считает себя русской и дома общается на русском, но иногда она говорит слова как "матерь" и т.д.   ::  Она сказала, что когда она говорит на украинском, говорят, что это неправильно звучит. Но она пишет на украинском свободно.

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## JJ

Правит, он не мой друг, он двоюродный брат моего друга, я общался с ним всего пару раз - поэтому не знаю.

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## waxwing

с другой стороны, правит, мне кажется, что Эстония или Латвиа были бы гораздо интереснее чем Германия. But chacun a son gout..

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## Pravit

Well, the thing is, I speak German fairly well(and after a couple years studying it I'll speak it even better) but I don't know any Estonian or Latvian. Also, sadly enough, I speak German a bit better than I do Russian. And I've read the courses at those unis will be mainly in English. Of course, it would be a more convenient distance to Russia...

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## drew881

but youll still need a visa to get in

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## BETEP

> For Russian the only ones they've got are the University of Tartu and the University of Latvia. I might consider going, because all I have to do is pay for the air tickets and room and board. Anyone know something about these universities?

 Two of my friends were being studied in University of Latvia. You can find a lot of information about this one at Latvijas Universitaate. The University of Tartu you can find here Tartu Ulikool.   

> I'm going to be majoring in electrical engineering, somebody know if I could take EE classes at these schools?

 The University of Latvia has a great experience in mathematics, chemistry, languages and law, but for EE you should look at Riigas Tehniskaa Universitaate or Transporta un sakaru instituuts. The first one certainly has electrical engineering studies, and the second one perhaps too but I'm not sure. (actually, TSI is the best in electronic engineering)   

> Is Russian still widely spoken in the Baltic nations? What language do you think the classes would be in?

 The Baltic States are different. The Russian language is popular in Latvia, has the local popularity in Estonia, and are rarely using in Lithuania. You can live in Latvia (especially in Riga and Daugavpils) and don't know Latvian (most of Russian-speakers do so). Grievously, but the language question are rising now. When you will have more information I could ask friends for details. Just let me know. But anyway, you could not found Latvian professor who doesn't know Russian language, and the most of them know English.   

> I would not recommend going there for a "Russian immersion". It might be compared with going to India to learn English, only it is much worse in Latvia: the Indians got rid of the English long time ago and English is the international language; the Latvians got rid of the Russian big brother just a few years ago, and Russian is not all that important in that region (as they trying to integrate with the EU, not Russia).

 It might not! First of all, because too many Russians live in Latvia. The Russian-speakers can and do teach Russian language, and in India Englishman is a rareness. The second one, Russian language is still popular in Latvia, and Latvian-Russians are keeping their language and culture and I respect them for this.   

> but youll still need a visa to get in

 Nope! (if Pravit is an American citizen)

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## waxwing

> Originally Posted by drew881  but youll still need a visa to get in    Nope! (if Pravit is an American citizen)

 drew was referring to the possibility of visiting Russia while in Latvia, and of course he was correct.

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## drew881

yeah sorry for not being specific.  When I went to Latvia, i was reading this book on the train ride over that i borrowed from my teacher.  I think it said that only 60 percent of Riga's citizens speak Latvian.  The rest i think was german, russian and other languages.

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## bad manners

> It might not! First of all, because too many Russians live in Latvia. The Russian-speakers can and do teach Russian language, and in India Englishman is a rareness. The second one, Russian language is still popular in Latvia, and Latvian-Russians are keeping their language and culture and I respect them for this.

 In India, almost 100% of the population speak English. In India, the English language is not considered "the white trash" language. 'nuff said.

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## drew881

I think he was saying not many british people live there?

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## Pravit

BETEP, so you live in Latvia! I was curious where you lived from an earlier post of yours. Thanks for your helpfulness!! I guess I'll look into it, but ISEP is specifically with University of Latvia. If I wanted to study EE at a different uni in a former Soviet state, I think I would go to Russia... Has anyone here studied in Russia? How much did it cost you? And how accepted are degrees from Russian universties in the West?

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## drew881

I studied for a semester so you dont really get a degree, its just credit accepted at your university for that semester.  I spent i think 8 grand for a ciee program semester, which was soemthing like 10 grand cheaper than a normal semester at my university so it is nice.  If you dont care about the credits transferring, you can go straight through universities like st petersburg state or moscow, and it will be like 1000 i think, but depending on how strict your school is, the credits may not transfer and it will be harder for you to graduate on time.  Basically these programs have better relations with universities, making it easier to accept the credits towards whatever degree you have.

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## waxwing

> In India, almost 100% of the population speak English. In India, the English language is not considered "the white trash" language. 'nuff said.

 Nowhere near 100%. You could say 'almost 100% of the educated middle class', maybe that's true. India is still largely rural and there are still areas where people live the same was as they did 500+ years ago. Kerala might be an interesting exception.
And where is English considered the 'white trash' language?  ::  Not here I think. Maybe France - and good luck to them, by the way  ::

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## BETEP

> drew was referring to the possibility of visiting Russia while in Latvia, and of course he was correct.

 Sorry, I lost the thread. Of course Pravit have to obtain visa to get in Russia (I even don't know who don't have to) but Baltics is visa free.  ::    

> I think it said that only 60 percent of Riga's citizens speak Latvian.

 Be carefully with the word "citizen" when you talk about Latvia. It's not so easy. I think the number 60 is not correct. About a half of Riga's population is Russians and Russian-speakers. Many of them are gone to Latvia (especially to Riga) in Soviet times when the main part of Latvian official papers was written in Russian and only their children learn Latvian language in schools. Now, the official papers are written in Latvian language. This one is not going to be native for Russian-speakers but is not meaning they don't use that.
In another hand, many of Russians live in Latvia very long time and share historical roots with Germans and Swedes. Actually, it is a very interesting part of history but it's long story. If somebody wants we can discuss it in Political forum.   

> The rest i think was german, russian and other languages.

 It's pity, but German language is no more popular in Latvia. "Other languages" is still popular at the East (a few people knows about Latgalian language).   

> In India, almost 100% of the population speak English. In India, the English language is not considered "the white trash" language. 'nuff said.

 You just have no idea what’s going on in Latvia and have the same knowledge about India.   

> BETEP, so you live in Latvia!

 Actually, I live in many places but Latvia is "Home, sweet home".  ::    

> If I wanted to study EE at a different uni in a former Soviet state, I think I would go to Russia... Has anyone here studied in Russia? How much did it cost you?

 I'll could know that too but it's easy to ask Moscow's and Peterburg's residents.   

> And how accepted are degrees from Russian universties in the West?

 You should to ask this question in foreign office of specific West country. Do not forget to inform them about exactly name of university.

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## BJ

Do people go to Universities in their home towns in Russia or do they go anywhere they like? In the UK most students prefer to leave home at 18 and move to a University some distance from their parents. (although with the introduction of higher fees more are choosing to live at home to study locally) Is there an 'IVY' league of universities in Russia?

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## bad manners

> Originally Posted by bad manners  In India, almost 100% of the population speak English. In India, the English language is not considered "the white trash" language. 'nuff said.   Nowhere near 100%. You could say 'almost 100% of the educated middle class', maybe that's true. India is still largely rural and there are still areas where people live the same was as they did 500+ years ago. Kerala might be an interesting exception.

 OK. I obviously could not have been everywhere in India. My estimate works in the capital anyway. Very different in Riga.   

> And where is English considered the 'white trash' language?  Not here I think. Maybe France - and good luck to them, by the way

 Precisely. In Latvia, Russian is considered so. It is almost like Yiddish in Nazi Germany.

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## joysof

> And where is English considered the 'white trash' language?  Not here I think. Maybe France - and good luck to them, by the way    Precisely. In Latvia, Russian is considered so. It is almost like Yiddish in Nazi Germany.

 You do have some unsettlingly hyperbolic tendencies, bm. Thirty percent of the population of Latvia is ethnically Russian; indeed, in Riga itself, there are more Russians than there are Latvians. With this in view, I'm not sure that the 'Yiddish in Nazi Germany' parallel stands up.

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## drew881

I spoke russian to people in Latvia who didnt know english.  It didnt seem to matter.  People were mainly helpful with directions, suggestions on where to eat, go out, etc.  On a bus the driver told me where to get off for where i wanted to go (conversation in russian), and a provodnitsa on a train let 5 of us have a free train ride back to riga after us asking her when we got on how much we had to pay (first in russian, no english used).

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## bad manners

> I'm not sure that the 'Yiddish in Nazi Germany' parallel stands up.

 Look up the definition of 'almost' in your favourite dictionary, joysof. At any rate, whatever is going on in Latvia is as far as you can get away with Nazism while joining the EU. I've read your posts about "racial profiling" in Moscow, but it is nowhere nearly disgusting there as it is in Latvia. I wonder why that country is still afloat given the amount of vomit their citizens and non-citizens should have produced by now.

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## joysof

> Originally Posted by joysof  I'm not sure that the 'Yiddish in Nazi Germany' parallel stands up.   Look up the definition of 'almost' in your favourite dictionary, joysof.

 http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=almost 
One of your less sensible posts, that. We all - except Nonna, perhaps - know what 'almost' means: it implies proximity. There isn't any. Or does adding an 'almost' make any nonsense acceptable these days? Some sort of semantic reflux? Do tell.

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## Линдзи

I'm gonna start a band and all it "semantic reflux."

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## Friendy

> I'm gonna start a band and all it "semantic reflux."

 Wow! A great name for a band!

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## bad manners

> Originally Posted by bad manners        Originally Posted by joysof  I'm not sure that the 'Yiddish in Nazi Germany' parallel stands up.   Look up the definition of 'almost' in your favourite dictionary, joysof.   http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=almost 
> One of your less sensible posts, that. We all - except Nonna, perhaps - know what 'almost' means: it implies proximity. There isn't any.

 The Jews in Germany were labeled, and that label entitled them to _less_ rights and _more_ suffering than those non-labeled. Replace "Jews" with "Russians", and "Germany" with "Latvia", and hopefully you shall see that the rest applies verbatim.

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## joysof

[quote=bad manners] 

> Originally Posted by "bad manners":2s3uwwcu        Originally Posted by joysof  I'm not sure that the 'Yiddish in Nazi Germany' parallel stands up.   Look up the definition of 'almost' in your favourite dictionary, joysof.   http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=almost 
> One of your less sensible posts, that. We all - except Nonna, perhaps - know what 'almost' means: it implies proximity. There isn't any.

 The Jews in Germany were labeled, and that label entitled them to _less_ rights and _more_ suffering than those non-labeled. Replace "Jews" with "Russians", and "Germany" with "Latvia", and hopefully you shall see that the rest applies verbatim.[/quote:2s3uwwcu] 
Grammar: '_fewer_ rights'. 
Sorry, bm, but when you talk about 'almost' and 'verbatim', I expect a little more. Where's the Latvian equivalent of the Enabling Act or the Citizenship Law? What goes on with the Russians in the Baltic these days is a 'то отлив, то прилив' state of affairs and comparisons with Hitlerian Germany are not far short of odious. Unless you have something dramatic to share...

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## BETEP

BM knows something and thinks that he knows everything and even has solved the problem. I'm going to write a little essay about Latvia where explain some history details or at least correspond real facts without populism. I don't have so much time right now but I'll post into the forum it as soon as possible.

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## bad manners

Oh. I'd expect you to say "Ugly ugly ugly _fewer_. Ugly." Nevermind.  
If you think that I am going to start proving what you want me to start proving, then you've got another think coming, joysof my splendid old chap. Your adopting red herring tactics implies that you cannot dispute my analogy, which I am enormously pleased to notice. I, on the other hand, do not think it necessary to state anything beyond that analogy, because that analogy alone is already enough to speak about nationalistic (to put it mildly) tendencies in that pitiful country. When you have any hard facts that would enable you to disprove my analogy, it will be my pleasure to continue this discussion.

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## drew881

> Oh. I'd expect you to say "Ugly ugly ugly _fewer_. Ugly." Nevermind.  
> If you think that I am going to start proving what you want me to start proving, then you've got another think coming, joysof my splendid old chap. Your adopting red herring tactics implies that you cannot dispute my analogy, which I am enormously pleased to notice. I, on the other hand, do not think it necessary to state anything beyond that analogy, because that analogy alone is already enough to speak about nationalistic (to put it mildly) tendencies in that pitiful country. When you have any hard facts that would enable you to disprove my analogy, it will be my pleasure to continue this discussion.

 what a lame cop out

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## bad manners

> what a lame cop out

 what a stinky arsehole

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## joysof

> If you think that I am going to start proving what you want me to start proving, then you've got another think coming, joysof my splendid old chap. Your adopting red herring tactics implies that you cannot dispute my analogy, which I am enormously pleased to notice. I, on the other hand, do not think it necessary to state anything beyond that analogy, because that analogy alone is already enough to speak about nationalistic (to put it mildly) tendencies in that pitiful country. When you have any hard facts that would enable you to disprove my analogy, it will be my pleasure to continue this discussion.

 Have you been eating raw ginger, bm? Logic appears to have deserted you.  
Of course I can dispute your analogy: it's wrong, enormously so. I have already made the point that Latvia has no legislation to compare with that passed in Germany in the early thirties. At most, they're indulging in a little over-enthusiastic identity-reclaiming after nearly fifty yoked years. Ethnic Russians in Latvia have a difficult time; so do Algerians in Paris, Tutsis in Rwanda and Italian telephonics experts in Iraq. The world's a hell of a place and Latvia these days is one of the better places in it. Where's the herring? What more can I fetch you?

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## bad manners

joysof, it is you who appears to have been deserted by logic. I made one very simple statement: 'The Jews in Germany were labeled, and that label entitled them to less rights and more suffering than those non-labeled. Replace "Jews" with "Russians", and "Germany" with "Latvia", and hopefully you shall see that the rest applies verbatim.' Is there anything in _this_ statement you want to dispute? (You need not mention 'less' again.) 
As for "nearly fifty yoked years", then you must not forget that the country accepted it without any coercion whatsoever. It is true that the Soviet diplomatic terms had certain military backing, but that is the case with any diplomatic term which is not null and void. It was not quite like in Scotland where the population had been decimated a gazillion times before it accepted the English terms. It was not quite like in Finland either, which had not accepted the terms until it realized that they actually were moderate. Latvia accepted the terms by signing a treaty that was not predated by any hostilities. 
Your mentioning some other nations and states is more of that stinky red herring. I do not eat it, thank you very much.

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## joysof

> joysof, it is you who appears to have been deserted by logic. I made one very simple statement: 'The Jews in Germany were labeled, and that label entitled them to less rights and more suffering than those non-labeled. Replace "Jews" with "Russians", and "Germany" with "Latvia", and hopefully you shall see that the rest applies verbatim.' Is there anything in _this_ statement you want to dispute? (You need not mention 'less' again.)

 Why, yes. But today I'm not going to play your well-worn 'contradict my statement' game - it's a punt at sophistry in your part. Rather, I'll approach the matter as I see fit, thanking you kindly.   

> Your mentioning some other nations and states is more of that stinky red herring. I do not eat it, thank you very much.

 We do like to discuss things on our own terms, don't we? By we, of course, I mean you. You're an obfuscator-supreme. As well you know, the 'some other nations and states' mentioned are very much to and of the point: they illustrate plainly that ethnic minorities (or, indeed, majorities) can endure suffering within a nation without the laws of that nation necessarily being directed specifically towards that end. I have never sought in this thread to defend Latvian government policy: Russian-speakers should, of course, be able to see their geometry textbooks printed in Cyrillic. In truth, I entered the fray only to challenge a flight of fancy. You, let the record show, haven't responded straightforwardly to anything I have written here 
In essence - because I'm sick of this - there is a difference between sanctioned persecution and the bastardry, to coin a phrase, of circumstance. Ethnic Russians in Latvia bear the brunt of the latter, not the former. German Jews - a whole 'nother story. No fish.

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## bad manners

> Why, yes. But today I'm not going to play your well-worn 'contradict my statement' game - it's a punt at sophistry in your part. Rather, I'll approach the matter as I see fit, thanking you kindly.

 As you please, my dear fellow, as you please.   

> We do like to discuss things on our own terms, don't we?

 And who does not, who does not!   

> In essence - because I'm sick of this - there is a difference between sanctioned persecution and the bastardry, to coin a phrase, of circumstance. Ethnic Russians in Latvia bear the brunt of the latter, not the former. German Jews - a whole 'nother story. No fish.

 Not quite so. Take the "trials" on whom they call "Soviet occupants"; they surely will qualify for your "sanctioned persecution". It could be 'nother story, but not wholly.

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## drew881

the trials?  So Latvia passed a law wanting all education taught in public schools in their national language.  Did Russia not try to pass a similar bill last year stating that the russian language and cyrillic should be used in the public sector such as on passports, documentation, etc, leaving many with the same problem.

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## Tu-160

This law claims that the national languages must use Cyrillic when being written, but it doesn't prohibit them. National languages are still taught in schools, freely used in conversations and TV programs. Duma passed this bill in response to stupid nationalistic movements which want their national languages to be written by Latin letters. People have been writing their national languages in Cyrillic for decades and now they have to change their skills because somebody consider Latin letters «more convenient» for reading.

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## bad manners

> the trials?

 Yes, the trials. I don't suppose you understand what I'm talking about, do you? You just know that Latvia is a nice democratic country and the Russians living there deserve whatever the Latvian state thinks they deserve, correct?   

> So Latvia passed a law wanting all education taught in public schools in their national language.  Did Russia not try to pass a similar bill last year stating that the russian language and cyrillic should be used in the public sector such as on passports, documentation, etc, leaving many with the same problem.

 Clueless but opinionated. Typical. You must come from the US, right?

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## drew881

You never counter points with facts.  You just insult people and bring up irrelevant information.  Good job.

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## bad manners

> You never counter points with facts.  You just insult people and bring up irrelevant information.  Good job.

 Points? I detect no points in your blathering. How can I counter your absurdity with facts if you don't understand the facts (such as those on the trials)? And where is insulting in what I wrote? Coming from the US is an insult for you? What kind of inferiority complex is that?

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## drew881

Coming from the US is not an insult to me, but it is irrelevant to the conversation.  Just because I am from the United States must mean that I am opinionated on the issue? No...   
What you do is make a broad statement.  Latvia is almost like Nazi Germany or something along that line.  Then when someone refutes it, all you are doing is shooting down their claim with no facts, but stupid little ploys like attacking one's grammar.  Very lame.

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## bad manners

I may repeat that 'almost' sentence again. For me, it is almost the same. For somebody else 'almost' implies some other kind of likelihood. Arguing about the definitions and the perceptions of 'almost' would have been lame indeed. 
As for "with no facts, but stupid little ploys like attacking one's grammar", could you show me one instance of the latter in this thread? I can attract your attentions to "the trial" again, that's facts for you. 
To conclude, you lied about "no facts" and I'm pretty sure you lied about "attacking one's grammar". You're a liar. It also was you who started personal attack. You are a rude ignorant liar, drew881 my dear opinionated USan (hmm, that sounds like a tautology).

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## joysof

> What you do is make a broad statement.  Latvia is almost like Nazi Germany or something along that line.  Then when someone refutes it, all you are doing is shooting down their claim with no facts, but stupid little ploys like attacking one's grammar.  Very lame.

 I think I was the grammar fascist in this particular exchange. Not proud.

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## Pravit

> You are a rude ignorant liar, drew881 my dear opinionated USan (hmm, that sounds like a tautology).

 I'm an AMERICAN, dammit, proud viewer of FOX news, the most fair and balanced news program in the history of television. All AMERICANS watch Fox News while at their Great AMERICAN Barbecues. CNN and NBC are run by Axis of Evil Islamic Communists. Peter Jennings is a TERRORIST! TERRORISTS are people who want to turn our great country AMERICA into opressive freedomless terrorist states such as Canada. TERRORISTS try to destroy our unique AMERICAN freedoms such as being able to vote, a freedom not granted to the unhappy citizens of all other countries, for example, England. Hell yes I'm an opinionated USan! I'm opinionated for FREEDOM!

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## Линдзи

PETER JENNINGS beat up my GRANDMA!  And he STOLE HER CANE! 
AND HE'S A COMMIE! 
I give {{{{{{Bill O'Reilly}}}}}}} hugz!1!!!!1

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## waxwing

> TERRORISTS try to destroy our unique AMERICAN freedoms such as being able to vote, a freedom not granted to the unhappy citizens of all other countries, for example, England.

 что ты?? Everyone knows it would be напрасно to give the Englandanians выборы, since they would all vote for the Queen anyway!

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## Линдзи

> что ты?? Everyone knows it would be напрасно to give the Englandanians выборы, since they would all vote for the Queen anyway!

 Don't be silly, the Englandishers would obviously vote for His Majesty Sir President Bush II like all good Americans!  They love him lots and lots like me and {{{Bill O'Reilly}}} do!  I say we should let them vote in our next elections!

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## Tambakis

::  Gawd I love you guys...and Bill O'Reilly.

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## Линдзи

> Gawd I love you guys...and Bill O'Reilly.

 I was going to say that Bill is MINE AND YOU CAN'T HAVE HIM, but then I remembered that Billy is VERY JESUS-LIKE and therefore probably advocates SHARING.  So I guess we can both love him.  Hugz!!!11!!1!!!!111!

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## Tambakis

Well, thats all nice and good, but HE'S MINE AND YOU CAN'T HAVE HIM!  ::

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## BETEP

I have written a little essay (it's here) Please, write your comments there.

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## possopo

waxwing wrote: 

> Could we make a list of how much Russian is spoken, and how it's perceived, in each of the ex-Soviet states?

 i second that and i'll add eastern europe countries :: )) 
i've been to prague and russian was pretty helpful but i guess this has to do with the similarities between czech and russian languages. when i was in budapest though, the only persons who were speaking a bit of russians were the elder. 
does anyone know about poland?

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