# Forum About Russia Politics  Local people comment what happened in Mariupol at 9th May (video) + related

## Basil77



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## UhOhXplode

The massacres in Odessa and Mariupol are obviously exactly what the West wants - since Victoria Nuland hand-picked the murderers (leaders) of the neo-Nazi interim government. And also since they downplay the atrocities in the Western media.
What they need to understand is that the atrocities in Ukraine and Syria are both a perfect reflection of what the West represents... And it couldn't be worse if Satan was in power in Kiev. But then maybe he is.
All that blood is on the hands of everyone that supports the interim government in Ukraine.

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## Eric C.

Heh, atrocities in Syria done by whom? Skunky Assad's government and military, or whoever else? And by the way, the rebels there are fighting it back just like that. So what's the difference? It seems like all of us are the same victims of propaganda, the question is what team we joined. Very few people really know what the truth is... But hey, all those who wanted bipolar world can celebrate now --- at least, the propaganda model sure is. I personally never seem to be able to accept the idea of encouraging dictators or authoritarian style rulers in power, or meddling with other countries' business out of helping a few so called compatriots at the cost of everyone else in those countries, BUT it's just me. You guys, every one of you, is sure entitled to choosing whatever side that you find fits you better. All I wanted to say by this is, doesn't it seem a little weird to you that in fact you have to pick one of two?...

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## UhOhXplode

> Heh, atrocities in Syria done by whom? Skunky Assad's government and military, or whoever else? And by the way, the rebels there are fighting it back just like that. *So what's the difference?* It seems like all of us are the same victims of propaganda, the question is what team we joined. Very few people really know what the truth is... But hey, all those who wanted bipolar world can celebrate now --- at least, the propaganda model sure is. I personally never seem to be able to accept the idea of encouraging dictators or authoritarian style rulers in power, or meddling with other countries' business out of helping a few so called compatriots at the cost of everyone else in those countries, BUT it's just me. You guys, every one of you, is sure entitled to choosing whatever side that you find fits you better. All I wanted to say by this is, doesn't it seem a little weird to you that in fact you have to pick one of the two?...

 The difference is respect and there are no choices. When there's a fight, I don't "pick" which side I'll migrate to. The only side to migrate to is the side that AGREES WITH ME. That's called honor. It can't be bought and it doesn't even have a National label. 
Syria? Try this. Obama Bypasses Terrorism Rule To Give Weapons To Syrian Rebels | FDL News Desk  

> Traitor (trā-tər) = A person who is not loyal to his or her own country, friends, etc. : a person who betrays a country or group of people by helping or supporting an enemy.

 What people do is not propaganda. And the slaughter of civilians in Odessa and Mariupol are not propaganda. They are video recordings of real events (like Nuland's phone call). You don't have to read anyone's views to see what's happening.
I don't understand this war on Russia but it basically seems to be a war against Slavic people (rewind to the bombings of Yugoslavia). So if you ask me to "pick one of two", I can't because I'm already on the side that AGREES WITH ME... Russia. 
As for me, I strongly condemn what the interim government is doing in Ukraine and I strongly support the annexation of Crimea & Sevastopol. And I also strongly support the Peoples Republic of Donetsk.
"Only God knows why Novorossiya became part of Ukrainian SSR in 1922." - President Putin. Tbh, Novorossiya, Sevastopol, and Crimea were Ukrainian land-grabs after the break-up of the USSR. 
Oh, and while I'm on the topic of quotes: “Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” (President) Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”. I think that was after Congress blocked him from selling 7 vital US shipping ports to the United Arab Emerate. It would have been the perfect way to import terrorists into the US.
Anyway, 3 Republican Congressional Leaders confirmed that quote from President Bush. It was made during a meeting to renew the Patriot Act. Patriot of what? "a goddamned piece of paper!”? *srsly confused*
So you tell me. Is siding with Russia on a specific issue somehow worse than being a Constitution hater or aiding the enemy? I very seriously doubt that.

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## BappaBa

> 

 Это просто малообразованные люди, как написал Ит-ого:   

> The reason is obvious: educated people can have an idea of perspectives  and real consequences of making our region a rogue state under the  control of Russian militaries (there are three such states already so we  can compare). Less educated people don't think about that, they just  feel abused by Kiev's rebellion and say "why can't we do the same?"

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## Lampada

> Это просто малообразованные люди, как написал Ит-ого:

 Они хоть знают, что в России им больше нельзя будет материться и, в случае чего, демострации протеста устраивать?

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## Hanna

> Это просто малообразованные люди, как написал Ит-ого:     
> 			
> 				                                  The reason is obvious: educated people can have an idea of  perspectives  and real consequences of making our region a rogue state  under the  control of Russian militaries (there are three such states  already so we  can compare). Less educated people don't think about  that, they just  feel abused by Kiev's rebellion and say "why can't we  do the same?"

 Yes, but even if that's true, are their opinions not worth anything? 
Just because they are not well educated, that doesn't mean they should put up with everything the central government wants to do!
Surely they have the same right as educated people to look after their best interests.  
It-ogo on the other hand, fears he would be worse off financially as a Russian citizen, and also believes that the political climate in Russia is restrictive and has some other concerns about Russia's outlook on things.  
There is a lot of poverty and difficulties in that area, aren't there. Particularly among working class people.  *So the question would be, which would give them a more comfortable life: Remaine Ukrainian, Independent Donbass, or Russian citizen? * 
I can understand that if a person is struggling with finances every day, and their nationality is a complex question, then finance will weigh in as they decide their way forward partly based on that. If their national identity is a bit hazy, then why not make a decision based on whatever gets them the most money in their pockets, and money to their region to improve public services.  
As I understand it the Ukrainian state is broke. They won't be able deliver anything but the bare minimum of public services for many years to come. Russia can trump that. An independent Donbass - I don't know.  
They might have almost a repetition of the 1990s ahead of them, in Ukraine.  
The EU / USA / IMF who say they will help Ukraine don't care about people's lives. They care about creating a good climate for business, selling all state property that can possibly be sold, privatizations and pave the way for big business. Russia wanted to try to let Ukraine continue as before. 
In Romania, an EU member country, people sell their kidneys, to citizens of richer EU states. The EU doesn't see a problem with this. And between the EU, USA and IMF, the EU is the most decent entity. It could get really ugly.

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## BappaBa

> Они хоть знают, что в России им больше нельзя будет материться и, в случае чего, демострации протеста устраивать?

 Ты, как настоящий либерал, сразу сумела заметить  главное.

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## Basil77

Another video from Mariupol (opinion of people standing in line to give their vote at referendum):

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## UhOhXplode

> The reason is obvious: educated people can have an idea of perspectives and real consequences of making our region a rogue state under the control of Russian militaries (there are three such states already so we can compare). Less educated people don't think about that, they just feel abused by Kiev's rebellion and say "why can't we do the same?"

 The Donetsk region voted 89.07% for self-determination. For Lugansk, it was 96.2%. In our country, people are very proud of the phrase "We the people.". Well, the people have spoken in those regions.
So who else has an idea of perspectives and real consequences? Kids being bullied in school. They know they'll be outcasts if they report it so a lot of them just let it continue. One was even arrested recently for speaking out.
There's very obvious prejudice in the West and the UN towards ethnic Russians so the only real chance that those 89.07% and 96.2% have is to turn to the nations that support them. 
You won't find that in the classroom criteria for "perspectives and real consequences" but hey, classrooms aren't where real-life happens.  
So maybe western Ukraine will have a better chance with the West but imo, eastern Ukraine has made the only intelligent choice that was available for them.
Also imo, Ukraine will never survive as a single country. The ethnic divide is way too extreme and all the hate speech I've heard is unbelievable. I can't even imagine what it would take to fix that.

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## lodka

> Yes, but even if that's true, are their opinions not worth anything?

 I suppose BappaBa's remark was sarcastic.

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## diogen_

> The Donetsk region voted 89.07% for self-determination. For Lugansk, it was 96.2%. In our country, people are very proud of the phrase "We the people.". Well, the people have spoken in those regions.
> So who else has an idea of perspectives and real consequences? Kids being bullied in school. They know they'll be outcasts if they report it so a lot of them just let it continue. One was even arrested recently for speaking out.
> There's very obvious prejudice in the West and the UN towards ethnic Russians so the only real chance that those 89.07% and 96.2% have is to turn to the nations that support them. 
> You won't find that in the classroom criteria for "perspectives and real consequences" but hey, classrooms aren't where real-life happens.

 These self-style people's republics have already asked Russia to bring them back into the fold today. Actually, it’s the ultimate sanity check for Putin now. He must unequivocally reject the request and reiterate the claim for dialog about federalization with Kiev. Otherwise, consequence for his country may be very close to dire.))

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## Crocodile

> Actually, it’s the ultimate sanity check for Putin now. He must unequivocally reject the request and reiterate the claim for dialog about federalization with Kiev.

 Has he passed the check now?   

> По мнению представителей МИД, претворение в жизнь итогов референдумов должно проходить в рамках диалога между Киевом, Донецком и Луганском.

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## diogen_

Not yet,IMHO. He still needs formally postpone reject  the plea to show himself as a proponent of  Ukraine’s territorial integrity. Croc, remember his final goal is not DPR & LPR but Novorossia as a whole. Blessing is in disguise.))

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## Hanna

> These self-style people's republics have already asked Russia to bring them back into the fold today. Actually, it’s the ultimate sanity check for Putin now. He must unequivocally reject the request and reiterate the claim for dialog about federalization with Kiev. Otherwise, consequence for his country may be very close to dire.))

 "his country" ? Aren't you Russian? Or are you Ukrainian?  
I too think he should continue to push for federalization. Politically it's definitely the thing to do.  
But on the other hand, I wouldn't lose any sleep if Russia annexed either. That would teach the USA once and for all, about the price of engineering coup d'etats in Europe.  I mean, if they can do this in Ukraine, who in Europe is next?  
What do most people in Russia think he should do? 
At the same time, I also think Putin is a bit cruel towards the people in these regions. After what they saw happening on Crimea, they probably thought there was a good chance they could trigger something similar. 
And now, it looks like it's not going to be possible? If he had made it completely clear from Day 1 that Russia would never annex them, a lot of chaos could have been prevented, and lives saved. So it seems unfair to "lead them on" and then pull back.   *If this had been the 18th century,* Russia (and/or someone else!) would have conquered all, or parts of Ukraine by now. It's served up on a silver platter, practically. As countries goes, it as young as a child, and it's been on artificial breathing all its life. It just doesn't seem to be able to stand on its own feet. But alas, today in the 21st century, we don't do that (well, the US does, sort of.. but no other country, really) 
If Russia does anything, it will be called an invasion. If NATO somehow figures out a way to get a legitmate foothold in Ukraine, it will be called "stabilisation" or "peacekeeping" or something like that.  
As for the price that Russia would have to pay: I don't think much more can be done. Serious sanctions against Russia are not an option in Europe. The rhetoric is already at the level of comparing Putin with Hitler, so how much worse can that get; not much.... or?    

> Has he passed the check now?

 I've enjoyed your argumentation in this question - always wanted to  see you come out squarely in one camp or another and on Crimea etc, you  finally did. It doesn't make your posts any less interesting, so keep it  up!
Hard to follow all of it for me though, but nonetheless. No more devils advocate crocodile..  
I am more like you normally are, in this. I don't really know who's right or wrong and I can see both sides of the argument. I sway back and forth.   

> Not yet,IMHO. He still needs formally  postpone reject  the plea to show himself as a proponent of   Ukraine’s territorial integrity. Croc, remember his final goal is not  DPR & LPR but Novorossia as a whole. Blessing is in  disguise.))

 Que? What is Novorussia (I can guess, but I never heard it, where does the expression come from..? ) 
From the completely detached, political science perspective, this is  fascinating because nobody really pulled off an actual land grab in  Europe since 1939 -1945.... Putin just did it in Crimea, but without  anybody dying and with more or less the full support of the population.  It really is genius work, from a Political Science perspective. 
But part of being a Political Science genius is to quit when you are ahead. Not get greedy and lose all.  
The US was genius too, when it "won" the Cold War despite having less  noble ideals and all of that, essentially making all of Eastern Europe  just resign and hand themselves over to the American sphere, including  NATO membership etc. And then getting the Soviet Union into an  economical competiton it couldn't win. 
But still, none of the areas became American territory like Crimea became Russian. 
The areas became under strong US influence, in NATO but still with their own borders.  
I thought that maybe the time of land-grabbing wars in Europe are over,  the new way is just who controls the economy and which foreign bases are  on that country's territory? 
But here it's actual land changing names.  
If Russia DID go into Ukraine, it wouldn't meet any serious resistance  though, would it? Hardly much from locals and probably not much from the  UA army... NATO cannot enter Ukraine as far as I know.  
So this is like when you are trying to diet and somebody brings you chocolate. Just say no!    

> Another video from Mariupol (opinion of people standing in line to give their vote at referendum):

 Omg,  the accent of the British reporter, lol !  I guess they had to pull him  out of the closet after Ukraine wouldn't allow entry to the regular  native speaking reporters. But well done him to get these ladies to open  up and speak their minds!  
Your first clip I couldn't follow, but this I more or less understand.  
However, from a Western perspective, anything that RT says is "Russian propaganda". So.......

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## Hanna

> The Donetsk region voted 89.07% for self-determination. For Lugansk, it was 96.2%.

 Ok, the question is, how many percent participated, how honest was the vote counting etc...? 
This to me seems less clearcut than Crimea.
It very much appears like those who are against self determination did not bother voting. The question is how many were that? 
For this particular referendum, sure it gives an indication, but I don't have the impression that it would stand for much international scrutiny, whereas Crimea would have...  
Not to say it's phony or that they deliberately cheated - I wouldn't know, and clearly a lot of people are FOR. 
But what precisely did they vote for? They had nothing concrete beyond "more self-determination" and after the referendum the first thing they do is call Moscow and ask for annexation.  
Although I sympathise with these people it's just not as professional or convincing as it could be. 
Which is why it seems ludicrous to believe that Russia is pulling the strings.  
And I pity the leaders of the Donetsk and Lugansk people states. 
If they can't pull something off, they are at risk of some very long prison sentences I imagine.  
All of this makes me think of a REAL and genuine working class uprising situation. Even the language they use. It's not polished and it's not impressive. Remains to see what they can pull off and whether they are all alone or have friends in Russia....  I have a lot of sympathy for them.

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## E-learner

> Que? What is Novorussia (I can guess, but I never heard it, where does the expression come from..? )

 Novorossiya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Don't miss "Present-day References" section.

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## UhOhXplode

> These self-style people's republics have already asked Russia to bring them back into the fold today. Actually, it’s the ultimate sanity check for Putin now. He must unequivocally reject the request and reiterate the claim for dialog about federalization with Kiev. Otherwise, consequence for his country may be very close to dire.))

 Exactly. It's a long long way to Novorossiya...   

> Ok, the question is, how many percent participated, how honest was the vote counting etc...? 
> This to me seems less clearcut than Crimea.
> It very much appears like those who are against self determination did not bother voting. The question is how many were that? 
> For this particular referendum, sure it gives an indication, but I don't have the impression that it would stand for much international scrutiny, whereas Crimea would have...  
> Not to say it's phony or that they deliberately cheated - I wouldn't know, and clearly a lot of people are FOR. 
> But what precisely did they vote for? They had nothing concrete beyond "more self-determination" and after the referendum the first thing they do is call Moscow and ask for annexation.  
> Although I sympathise with these people it's just not as professional or convincing as it could be. 
> Which is why it seems ludicrous to believe that Russia is pulling the strings.  
> And I pity the leaders of the Donetsk and Lugansk people states. 
> ...

 Voter turnout was about 75% in both regions. In Lugansk there were 30 International Observers. None of the Observers registered for the Donetsk referendum and they were invited. But there were hundreds of journalists in Donetsk and they were watching for cheating. A journalist caught one woman cheating and reported it. Btw, voter turnout for both Obama elections was about 65%.
Also, anyone who decided not to vote chose to let the voters make the decision. Since they didnt want a choice they didn't get the choice so they have to accept the results.
The same is true in the Obama elections. The 35% of registered voters that didn't vote had to accept the results. 
Because the Observers and journalists were watching for cheating - and the voter turnout was that high - I accept the results of those votes. But it could be the start of a civil war.
The leader of the Peoples Republic of Donetsk said they need to work fast and the first things on the agenda was securing the economy and re-building the military in the region. He also said that anyone that wouldn't swear an oath would be deported to Ukraine.
That's why talks are very important right now because if the Ukraine military tries to destabilize the new Republics, they will fight back and may even ask Russia for military assistance.
It's a huge level up from just being labelled terrorists.
Btw, I don't understand why they were talking about annexation either. 
About Novorossiya, you can see in the list that 3 of the regions were in the Russian Federation before the conflict, not in Ukraine: Krasnodar krai, Rostov oblast, and the Republic of Adygea. Also, the slow creation of Novorossiya involved a lot of signed treaties.

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## eisenherz

> Also, anyone who decided not to vote chose to let the voters make the decision. Since they didnt want a choice they didn't get the choice so they have to accept the results.
> .

 For that argument to be valid, the 'election' would have to be free and fair in the first place. And that would imply: "no fraud and no intimidation." - both were not given. Do you honestly think any person in this referendum could have openly been against the 'separation' and vote 'pro-Kiev' without fear for his safety? Secondly I have seen documented instances where the same person voted at different times (voted more than once); and it is common knowledge that persons were allowed to vote on behalf of others. So this hardly qualifies for 'free and fair'. Having said this, i nevertheless believe that the majority in a genuinely fee and fair referendum would have been for independence; but not 85-90% of the vote.

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## UhOhXplode

> For that argument to be valid, the 'election' would have to be free and fair in the first place. And that would imply: "no fraud and no intimidation." - both were not given. Do you honestly think any person in this referendum could have openly been against the 'separation' and vote 'pro-Kiev' without fear for his safety? Secondly I have seen documented instances where the same person voted at different times (voted more than once); and it is common knowledge that persons were allowed to vote on behalf of others. So this hardly qualifies for 'free and fair'. Having said this, i nevertheless believe that the majority in a genuinely fee and fair referendum would have been for independence; but not 85-90% of the vote.

 I wouldn't honestly think that in the last Obama election people coulda been openly against Obama in a lot of cities in the US. But there were no mass executions here after the election and I haven't seen any news feeds about any mass executions of the 12% of the voters that voted against the referendum either.
Tbh, there have been lots of cases of voter fraud and voter intimidation in the US but the outcomes were still accepted. Another phrase that Americans like is "Innocent until proven guilty.". So if I don't see any proof of mass voter fraud or intimidation or both then I still stand by what I said. I accept the outcome of the referendums... until I'm proven wrong. And a few isolated cases of cheating isn't enough to prove that. 
But those issues aren't as important as what the vote enabled - the rebuilding of those regions as separate, organized States with their own Military bases. And that's probably what the referendums were all about - to create a strong and accepted (by the people at least) Military front against the deadly assaults of the Ukrainian Military forces.

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## UhOhXplode

I think what President Putin is doing is very logical and it will help Southeast Ukraine more than a show of force will.
He knows it was the US that started the "Ukrainian crisis". He also knows that the EU is being influenced by the US. President Putin can't get the US on his side but he does have a chance to get the EU on his side.
If he can prove to the EU that Russia isn't arming or training the pro-Russians then they will have to accept the fact that it's mostly just Ukrainian citizens defending themselves, their homes, and their families. When the EU and European countries have enough evidence then they will have to accept the truth - that the "Ukrainian crisis" is really just Ukrainian government oppression of the Ukrainian people and that the US is actively supporting government oppression. 
The truth will be revealed and when it is, Europe will know that the US supports military oppression, not democracy. President Putin is helping Europe to learn the truth and that's very important.
Imo, that will do more to help Southeast Ukraine than accusations that the US/EU would only dismiss.

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## Alex_krsk

> The truth will be revealed and when it is, Europe will know that the US supports military oppression, not democracy. President Putin is helping Europe to learn the truth and that's very important.

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## Lampada

> 

 "Дурак-дурак, да умный":  пока всё чётко идёт по его плану, если эта карикатура в какой-то мере отражает действительность.

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## hddscan

> "Дурак-дурак, да умный":  пока всё чётко идёт по его плану, если эта карикатура в какой-то мере отражает действительность.

 Yes, I think the short-term goal of the US is to convince the EU to apply energy sector sanctions against Russia, killing two birds with one stone: Russia would lose significant part of its revenue and the US could supply the EU with liquefied gas, acquiring new partner in this sector. Hence all the anti-Russian propaganda and calls to decrease dependence on Russian natural gas supplies.
However so far the EU does not want to stop buying cheap Russian gas and switch to expensive liquefied gas and increase its dependence on the US.
In the face of recent events the EU might want to re-think its dependence on the US.
Here is an example of the US reach - BNP Paribas Agrees to Pay Nearly $9 Billion to Resolve U.S. Probe - WSJ
The US "fines" French bank for nearly $9 billions, I mean it is clear that the US wants to control the whole world and dictates its will even to Europe.

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## UhOhXplode

This is interesting. Poroshenko's Ministry of Defense is now the RAND Corporation.  President Poroshenko Uses RAND Corporation “Action Plan” for Eastern Ukraine including Ground Assaults and Air Strikes | Global Research 
To make it easier for Russians to read the photographed document, I typed it up.    

> Confidential document prepared by the RAND corporation: 
> MEMORANDUM *On the advisable course of action in case the peace plan fails* 
> In case further negotiation with southeast Ukrainian Insurgents should prove futile, the only practicable solution should be a swift crackdown on the separatists and terrorists, to be undertaken irrespective of public opinion or operation costs. Procrastination would dramatically reduce the operation's chances of success. 
> Possible political and material downsides of an operation should be greatly outweighed by the following probable gains: 
> - Activists of a pro-Russian political movement get decimated, pro-Russian voters get disorganized.
> - A significant share of the region's coal industries get destroyed in the fighting, or are otherwise designated for a quick shutdown, thus relieving Ukraine's budget of the burdensome subsidy costs.
> - Shutting down Donbas Industries will mean a stark reduction in gas consumption, and therefore a lesser dependency on Russian energy imports.
> - Rinat Akhmetov and his clan's political and economic clout is considerably weakened.
> - Ukraine's current economic and social difficulties can be explained to the public as the unwanted yet unavoidable consequences of the military operation, which the Ukrainian government has been keen yet unable to avoid due to the terrorists' Intransigence.  *The Presumable Stages of a Military Operation*  *Stage One: Total isolation of the rebel region* 
> ...

 Notice the last part about foreign media. And I thought the US Constitution supported Freedom of the Press. Hmmm.... Maybe I misread the Constitution. Maybe the White House thinks it meant Freedom of Propaganda?

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## 14Russian

> It's not about the conflict between Ukrainians and Russians. From 1/3 to 1/2 of population of Russian Federation have Ukrainian heritage and vice versa. Many ethnic Ukrainians are defending Donetsk and Lugansk republics while at the same time many ethnic Russians are fighting on nazis side. The conflict is more like between Russophobic Russians/Ukrainians etc. and Pro-Russian Russians/Ukrainians etc. You underestimate the current level of hysterical propaganda in Ukraine. For example my wife's mother called yesterday and asked why Russian army is shelling and air-bombing Donbass and killing civilians. Ordinary people in Ukraine believe that all these atrocities which currently happen made by Russian regular army by personal Putin's orders and poor Ukraine soldiers are defending these lands and trying to save civilians by the cost of their lives. But such blatant lies can't be supported too long, that's why after some time I'm certain most people in Ukraine will realise the truth.

 LOL!   "Many ethnic Ukrainians are defending Donetsk and Lugansk republics while at the same time many ethnic Russians are fighting on nazis side. "   Huh?  ::  
Some of you guys are good for comedy.    
".....why Russian army is shelling and air-bombing Donbass and killing civilians....But such blatant lies can't be supported too long, that's why after some time I'm certain most people in Ukraine will realise the truth" - > where did the separatists get all their artillery and tanks?   Just got them out of thin air I suppose. 
Putin doesn't give a **** about ethnic Ukrainians or ethnic Russians.   This is the same ruler who called ethnic Russians IDIOTS and has laws that prevent that group from having a voice.   You are uninformed about your own country.   You're not ashamed AT ALL?!?  Wow.  It's really fascinating.

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## dtrq

> This is the same ruler who called ethnic Russians IDIOTS and has laws that prevent that group from having a voice.

 Wtf are you even talking about.

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## hddscan

> where did the separatists get all their artillery and tanks?

 That's something new AFAIK the rebels don't have artillery, except mortars, which they got from multiple military bases in Ukraine, there were reports that the rebels have taken control over several of those.
As for the tanks, I believe officially only three tanks were seen to be in possession of rebels, both sides confirmed that, and those tanks were T64BV models and only Ukraine has them. And Kiev's army already claimed that they have destroyed two out three of those tanks, so it is unclear what is all the fuss about?
There were also unconfirmed reports that the rebels have taken control over military repair base in Artyomovsk and got themselves over 200 tanks in semi-working conditions and several "Grad" rocket launchers, but again, it's unconfirmed

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## lodka

> "Дурак-дурак, да умный":  пока всё чётко идёт по его плану

 Да что ты говоришь. В его планах было занять крымские военные базы, а потом главной целью стало спровоцировать военное вторжение России на территорию Украины (этого некоторые и сейчас добиваются, устраивая прилеты осколков от снарядов на российскую территорию) и устроить всемирную истерию по этому поводу.
Ни то, ни другое не удалось. "Вигвам называется".

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## UhOhXplode

> ... Where did the separatists get all their artillery and tanks?   Just got them out of thin air I suppose.

 The 3 tanks are T-64BV's, a Ukrainian military upgrade of the old Soviet T-64. The fact that they were seen crossing into Ukraine doesn't exclude the possibility that they coulda crossed into Russia first. The Ukrainian army has been caught driving APC's into Russia. The rest of the artillery coulda been taken from any Ukrainian base or warehouse. It's also common practice to take artillery from captured enemy troops... or maybe even the ones that surrendered and changed sides?   

> Putin doesn't give a **** about ethnic Ukrainians or ethnic Russians.   This is the same ruler who called ethnic Russians IDIOTS and has laws that prevent that group from having a voice.   You are uninformed about your own country.   You're not ashamed AT ALL?!?  Wow.  It's really fascinating.

 1. Putin doesn't care about ethnic Ukrainians. (emotional language isn't required in any debate)
2. Putin doesn't care about ethnic Russians.
3. This is the same ruler who called ethnic Russians idiots...
4. and has laws that prevent that group from having a voice.
5. You are uninformed about your own country. 
You've made 5 completely unsupported claims. If you don't back them up with concrete evidence, they will be summarily dismissed.
Also, tell me how much you knew about the PRISM surveillance system, the international wiretapping, and the deaths of the Reuters journalists (by friendly fire) before the Manning/Snowden leaks.
If you can't provide an answer and proof of your early knowledge of those events, then I will have to conclude that "You are uninformed about your own country.".

----------


## Hanna

I saw the RAND document on RT. Flabbergasted!  
I am very propganda conscious so I immediately read it looking for signs that it was fake. I.e. dodgy English. But as far as I can tell, it's got every sign of being compiled by a young think-tank employee with legal training "shall this, "shall that".  
I noticed no non-native English grammar mistakes, missed definite articles, incorrectly used words or expressions or anything to indicate that anyone other than a young, reasonably educated think tank employee, with some limited legal background wrote this.  Exactly as you would expect if it was genuine.
Native English speakers, do you agree with my assessment of language?  
If it was a plant, it's very unlikely that it would be in native English with the exact type of tone you'd expect from the type of employee who'd write something like that.  
Also the fact that it doesn't seem well aqcuainted with real conditions in Ukraine, is probably a further confirmation that it's genuine; a Ukrainian or Russian who hypothetically created this for propaganda reasons would be better informed about the real situation in Ukraine.  
The fact that RAND denies writing it, means nothing. 
This is exactly how the US does these types of operations; through instructions provided by privately or gov't funded think tanks. 
It's how the flower and colour revolutions are planned. 
Obviously now that it's been revealed, they'll have to re-rig the plan so it's not too obvious when it's later implemented.        
@14Russian: I'll let your rant slip because I assume you were drunk when you wrote it. Feel free to clarify what you  mean when you sobered up because it made no sense whatsoever.  
@hddscan: You are a breath of well needed fresh air in this forum for sure. Keep it up!

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## Alex_krsk

> the RAND document

 Regargless of is it fake or not, it's pretty predictable, not surprising and quite boring.
These plans were pretty obvious from the very beginning.

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## Hanna

> Yes, I think the short-term goal of the US is to convince the EU to apply energy sector sanctions against Russia, killing two birds with one stone: Russia would lose significant part of its revenue and the US could supply the EU with liquefied gas, acquiring new partner in this sector. Hence all the anti-Russian propaganda and calls to decrease dependence on Russian natural gas supplies.
> However so far the EU does not want to stop buying cheap Russian gas and switch to expensive liquefied gas and increase its dependence on the US.
> In the face of recent events the EU might want to re-think its dependence on the US.
> Here is an example of the US reach - BNP Paribas Agrees to Pay Nearly $9 Billion to Resolve U.S. Probe - WSJ
> The US "fines" French bank for nearly $9 billions, I mean it is clear that the US wants to control the whole world and dictates its will even to Europe.

 Unfortuntely we are "hooked" on the USA in Europe.  
If the USA is heroin, we are junkies.  
It will take a long time to 1) admit the problem, 2) kick the habit, 3) start a new life with sound relationships.  
The USA spies on us, tricks or bullies us into its idiotic and consistently failed wars and is responsible --- deliberately or not --- for some very disturbing cultural and moral developments in Europe.  
Yet we continue coming back for more. We are guilty of this ourselves and NOTHING seems to be able to snap most people out of it. Wikileaks and Snowden changed little.   

> “We do not merely destroy our enemies; we change them.”   
>   ―     George Orwell,     _       1984    _

 Most people in Western Europe and lately also Eastern Europe grew up surrounded by:  
American food 
American beverages 
American style clothing 
American music 
American films 
American TV 
American computer games
American military bases 
American culture
American values
...and more 
When Europe did this to Asia, Africa and South America we called it by its rightful names: Imperialism and colonialism. But this is on a grander scale and not acknowledged for what it is.  
If a German person puts on tracht he's considered a backwards nerd. But nobody thinks twice if he wears jeans and a T shirt with an American slogan, in English.  
In England, people dancing traditional English dances are often accused of being racist. But nobody thinks twice if they dance to hip-hop or disco.  
In Sweden, kids nowadays are swearing in English. They'd choose a McDonald's Happy Meal over a traditional healthy meal of fresh fish and newly picked mushrooms.  
Every kid on the European continent knows Disney's characters. But the traditional fairytales are being forgotten. The kids can sing the tunes to these films, but not traditional songs that existed for hundreds of years.  
I could go on forever with examples like this. 
I'm not saying this is America's fault exclusively or that all of it is deliberate. We are guilty for allowing it to happen.  
Americans, please don't take this as an insult on your culture, it isn't. American culture in small doses, or in the country where it belongs is an amazing thing that I greatly appreciate.  
But all this has created a situation where America can get away with ANYTHING in Europe. We are US zombies! I doubt if a massacre perpetrated by the US in central London, Paris or Berlin would make people snap out of it. It would be justified as anti-terrorist or a tragic accident in the US controlled media and people would get back to their Cokes, computer games and Hollywood films.  
The US energy plan will fall on geographical and economical realities though.   

> Regargless of is it fake or not, it's pretty predictable, not surprising and quite boring.
> These plans were pretty obvious from the very beginning.

 To you maybe, to me they weren't, and what's more its proof that might convince English speaking people who believe that the Kiev gov't is conducting an anti-terrorist operation.

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## Eric C.

Some good news coming, (in case it's not fake, of course) :  Ukraine claims victory as rebel fighters reportedly flee Slavyansk - Telegraph  _Ukraine claims victory as rebel fighters reportedly flee Slavyansk
Rebel fighters abandoned their most important stronghold in the Donetsk region, according to reports in local media_  
Yes, what they called it was a "tactical retreat", but according to some news sources, it's just an euphemism for defeat. I hope Ukraine gets back its integrity pretty soon! 
Now, this statement of one of the separatists should get you, Russians, really angry:  _“Kutuzov also retreated, as was the plan,” he said, In an apparent reference to the 1812 battle of Borodino. “Russians only retreat before a decisive victory.”_ 
They intentionally use every opportunity to boast about their alleged links to your country, deliberately making an international deal out of a local criminal gang thing. What do you say?

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## hddscan

> Now, this statement of one of the separatists should get you, Russians, really angry

 Wow, where is a moderator when you need one? ::

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## Alex_krsk

> Wow, where is a moderator when you need one?

  ::   ::   ::   ::

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## Eric C.

> Wow, where is a moderator when you need one?

 Why? If I were Russian, what that idiot said would get me real pissed off... 
I mean, they're trying to get your country into their criminal gang stuff, isn't that enough???

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## lodka

> what that idiot said

 Лампада, ты же ж напишешь же ж, что называть людей идиотами is not nice, правда ж ведь? ::

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## RedFox

> А есть ли доказательства целенаправленных убийств беззащитных мирных жителей в том регионе вообще, и в частности, подобных убийств совершенных украинской армией? Вы ведь понимаете, что убийства вооруженных агрессоров никак не могут учитываться в этой статистике. Не вижу причин не ликвидировать тех с оружием в руках воюющих против украинской армии в том регионе - и чем скорее те сепаратисты будут все положены, тем скорее наступит мир.

 Украинец, пытающийся пропагандировать русского, — всё равно, что папуас, пытающийся пропагандировать этнолога. (c)

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## lodka

> I hope Ukraine gets back its integrity pretty soon!

 When you asked us "But what about you, Russian guys? So you ARE involved, or still not?", we answered here (although you seem to not care about our replies). Now I have a question to you, "What about YOU? Are YOU involved? What is YOUR interest if you HOPE something will happen in Ukraine?" Your position is Russophobic, still you can write a very good Russian, and you *hope* about some events in Ukraine. I'm beginning to have a guess...

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## Eric C.

> Лампада, ты же ж напишешь же ж, что называть людей идиотами is not nice, правда ж ведь?

 Защищать бандита по кличке стрелок - еще менее nice =))

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## Eric C.

> When you asked us "But what about you, Russian guys? So you ARE involved, or still not?", we answered here (although you seem to not care about our replies). Now I have a question to you, "What about YOU? Are YOU involved? What is YOUR interest if you HOPE something will happen in Ukraine?" Your position is Russophobic, still you can write a very good Russian, and you *hope* about some events in Ukraine. I'm beginning to have a guess...

 Good question. Well, I'm involved there as much as caring about a country that's being attacked by inside criminal separatist groups. I'm rooting for Ukraine simply because I don't want THAT to happen to any other country in the world.

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## Eric C.

> Украинец, пытающийся пропагандировать русского, — всё равно, что папуас, пытающийся пропагандировать этнолога. (c)

 Возможно, но при чем здесь это? =)

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## RedFox

> Возможно, но при чем здесь это? =)

 При том, что прежде чем браться за высказывание любых мыслей относительно ЛНР, ДНР, России, Украины, Европы, Стрелкова, Путина и прочая, вам следовало бы для начала ознакомиться с человеческой культурой хотя бы в объеме античности. (Про Возрождение и Новое время даже не говорим.)
У вас отсутствует образование.

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## Eric C.

> При том, что прежде чем браться за высказывание любых мыслей относительно ЛНР, ДНР, России, Украины, Европы, Стрелкова, Путина и прочая, вам следовало бы для начала ознакомиться с человеческой культурой хотя бы в объеме античности. (Про Возрождение и Новое время даже не говорим.)
> У вас отсутствует образование.

 Наверное, быстрее всего мои пробелы в образовании закроются переходом на сторону ЛНР/ДНР, и прочих группировок иже с ними.  ::

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## RedFox

> Наверное, быстрее всего мои пробелы в образовании закроются переходом на сторону ЛНР/ДНР, и прочих группировок иже с ними.

 Увы, переход на сторону ЛНР/ДНР не добавит вам ни культуры ведения диалога, ни образования, ни ума.

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## Eric C.

> Увы, переход на сторону ЛНР/ДНР не добавит вам ни культуры ведения диалога, ни образования, ни ума.

 Возможно, прежде чем выдвигать голословные обвинения по поводу уровня образованности и культуры других, некоторым стоило бы подтянуть, например, свой уровень распознавания сарказма.  ::

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## Lampada

Почему не оставить эту тему на какое-то время? Там люди гибнут, а вы тут пререкаетесь.

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## Eric C.

> When you asked us "But what about you, Russian guys? So you ARE involved, or still not?", we answered here (although you seem to not care about our replies). Now I have a question to you, "What about YOU? Are YOU involved? What is YOUR interest if you HOPE something will happen in Ukraine?" Your position is Russophobic, still you can write a very good Russian, and you *hope* about some events in Ukraine. I'm beginning to have a guess...

 One more thing. My position about this matter can't possibly be Russophobic, because not only do I not assume any involvement of Russia in that conflict, but I'm actually trying to bring up the idea of Russia totally staying out of it. Now, what some of you guys are doing by saying that you and your country have sympathy for those separatist groups is that you in fact question the impartiality of your country in the matter. That is what could be called Russophobic, as it doesn't do good for the image of your country. I would probably think of it if I were you. =)) 
That country might have problems and features that not everyone likes, but they're better off fixing those by themselves. They do not need to give up a piece of their territory to *God knows whom* to start fixing them.

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## RedFox

> Почему не оставить эту тему на какое-то время? Там люди гибнут, а вы тут пререкаетесь.

 Люди там гибнут 4 месяца.
4 месяца на этом форуме идёт срач.

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## Lampada

> Люди там гибнут 4 месяца.
> 4 месяца на этом форуме идёт срач.

 Форум, как отражение всего происходящего и волнующего в реале.  Просила русскоязычных по-русски хоть писать.

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## Alex_krsk

> Почему не оставить эту тему на какое-то время? Там люди гибнут, а вы тут пререкаетесь.

 Наверняка ведь создаётся неправильное представление?

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## RedFox

Статистика одного из пользователей форума с начала этого года. Число сообщений в различных темах:      23 Local people comment what happened in Mariupol at 9th May (video) + related
     21 Future of Eastern Ukraine? /  Будущее Восточной Украины?
     17 USA government gone rogue (... not exactly a 100%. L.)
     15 Что произойдет в восточной Украине? (Eastern Ukraine?)
     11 Russian Oligarchs
     11 &quot;Russophobia&quot; and &quot;Russophilia&quot;
      7 Sanctions on Russia: Facts and end-resultsd
      4 С праздником, дорогие форумчане!
      3 Анекдоты, шутки, шуточные стишки, смешные истории или не очень
      2 Негатив об &quot;опасной&quot; Америке. И всякое другое о жизни в США, вкл. шутки
      2 &quot;Next time someone tells you about the fascists in Ukraine...&quot; pic
      2 Obsenity laws in Russia
      1 Обращение к форуму
      1 Весёлые картинки и другое смешное или не очень
      1 Why I love (and hate) dating Russian men (article)
      1 Ukraine, the EU and Russia (suspension of EU - Ukraine talks)
      1 stuck, lost, put on (jewelry)
      1 Russian Caravan Tea?
      1 per person  
У меня два вопроса.
1. Зачем такие пользователи нужны на _лингвистическом_ форуме?
2. Зачем на _лингвистическом_ форуме нужен раздел _Политика_?

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## Lampada

Я не вижу ничего криминального в этих темах.  Форумчане никак не ограничены в выборе тем для дискуссий. Так всегда было и раньше.
Иногда я переношу темы в более подходящие для них разделы.  Вообще, главное, отвечать на вопросы по русскому языку и на разные другие вопросы,  связанные с Россией.  Ещё хорошо бы исправлять ошибки учащихся.  Я думаю, МастерАдмин будет рад интересным идеям для улучшения привлекательности форума и его популярности.  Он, правда, наверное, очень занят там у себя, только иногда его вижу в чате. 
PS. О, я не поняла вопроса и не поняла, о каком пользователе идёт речь.

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## RedFox

В подобные моменты я вспоминаю замечательные слова одного персонажа одной компьютерной игры, которые он произносил с неподражаемым колоритом: «Глупо всё время повторять одно и то же и ожидать другого результата!»

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## RedFox

> The conflict is more like between Russophobic Russians/Ukrainians etc. and Pro-Russian Russians/Ukrainians etc.

 Russophobic = Soviet.

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## UhOhXplode

> Some good news coming, (in case it's not fake, of course)

 The only good news from Ukraine is that everybody isn't dead... yet.   

> I hope Ukraine gets back its integrity pretty soon!

 Unarmed elderly people were burned alive in a building while pro-Kiev rioters cheered. Ukraine's integrity was one of the casualties. If the Ukrainian army was planting flowers and smiling at tourists right now, I would still rather go to Hell than Ukraine.
When I saw that, I didn't even care anymore who was right or who was wrong. Humans don't do what they did in Odessa.

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## RedFox

> Я не вижу ничего криминального в этих темах.  Форумчане никак не ограничены в выборе тем для дискуссий. Так всегда было и раньше.
> Иногда я переношу темы в более подходящие для них разделы.  Вообще, главное, отвечать на вопросы по русскому языку и на разные другие вопросы,  связанные с Россией.  Ещё хорошо бы исправлять ошибки учащихся.  Я думаю, МастерАдмин будет рад интересным идеям для улучшения привлекательности форума и его популярности.  Он, правда, наверное, очень занят там у себя, только иногда его вижу в чате.

 Мне утверждение «На форуме, посвященном языкам и культурам, обсуждают языки и культуры» кажется самоочевидным. Примерно из разряда «Суп едят ложкой», «Зубы следует чистить как минимум два раза в день» или «На пляж ходят в купальной одежде, а не в семейных трусах». Ведь нет ничего криминального в том, чтобы суп хлебать ртом прямо из кастрюли, не чистить зубы и ходить купаться в чем придётся. Но это путь обратно на деревья. *Культура* отличает человека от примата, а вовсе не наличие возможности выкладывать фотки в инстаграмм. 
На этом форуме культура общения отсутствует. Это — непосредственная заслуга проводимой политики модерирования. (Вернее, её полного отсутствия.) 
Я сожалением вынужден прийти к выводу, что этот форум собрал в себе худшие проявления советского бескультурия, которые только можно было найти. Это очень показательная иллюстрация к тому, что бывает, если на 70 лет отобрать у народа право иметь частную собственность, читать книги и думать собственной головой. Но неужели это именно то, что мы хотим и можем продемонстрировать миру в лице тех людей, что заходят сюда за тем, чтобы познакомиться с *русской культурой*?

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## Lampada

> Мне утверждение «На форуме, посвященном языкам и культурам, обсуждают языки и культуры» кажется самоочевидным. Примерно из разряда «Суп едят ложкой», «Зубы следует чистить как минимум два раза в день» или «На пляж ходят в купальной одежде, а не в семейных трусах». Ведь нет ничего криминального в том, чтобы суп хлебать ртом прямо из кастрюли, не чистить зубы и ходить купаться в чем придётся. Но это путь обратно на деревья. *Культура* отличает человека от примата, а вовсе не наличие возможности выкладывать фотки в инстаграмм. 
> На этом форуме культура общения отсутствует. Это — непосредственная заслуга проводимой политики модерирования. (Вернее, её полного отсутствия.) 
> Я сожалением вынужден прийти к выводу, что этот форум собрал в себе худшие проявления советского бескультурия, которые только можно было найти. Это очень показательная иллюстрация к тому, что бывает, если на 70 лет отобрать у народа право иметь частную собственность, читать книги и думать собственной головой. Но неужели это именно то, что мы хотим и можем продемонстрировать миру в лице тех людей, что заходят сюда за тем, чтобы познакомиться с *русской культурой*?

 Этот пост написан в стиле опытного партийного работника, с чем вас и поздравляю.  Очень знакомо. Будем искать _"врагов народа"?_

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## Lampada

> Я не согдасен с тем, что на лингвистическом форуме не должно быть места разговорам о политике. Ведь язык - это не просто набор слов и грамматических правил. В первую очередь - это инструмент общения между людьми. Можно, конечно, общаться на исключительно лингвистические темы, но такое общение было бы весьма ограниченным, оно подразумевает использование очень узкого круга терминов и т.д. Кроме того, этот форум интересен тем, что на нем встречаются люди разных национальностей, разных культур и политических взглядов. Это и делает форум интересным. Русскоязычные, изучающие английский пытаются писать по-английски, дабы развить у себя навык владения этим языком. Я не вижу в этом ничего зазорного. Непонятно только, почему наши форумчане-иностранцы так стесняются писать по-русски... 
> Очередной бред. В начале XX века население России на 85% состояло из крестьян, в подавляющем большинстве безграмотных. Советская власть дала народу возможность получать бесплатно очень неплохое образование, вырастило целый новый класс рабоче-крестьянской интеллигенции, сделало советских людей самой читающей нацией в мире. И как культура соотносится с правом иметь частную собственность?

 Я думаю, что принципиальных перемен в организации форума в перспективе не предвидится.  Форум есть и будет в основном таким, каким его создал Алексей, наш первый МастерАдмин, трагически погибший в прошлом году.  Конечно, всё в руках его отца, нынешнего МастерАдмина.

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## 14Russian

> Wtf are you even talking about.

 WTF?   Perhaps, this?!?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gat-hrgeajQ   ::

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## 14Russian

Putin loyalists are even conceding the RAND thing can't be verified and RT even took their article down.  ::

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## UhOhXplode

> WTF?   Perhaps, this?!?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gat-hrgeajQ

 1 down. 4 left.
But President Putin didn't call ethnic Russians "idiots". He called *prejudiced* ethnic Russians "idiots". It was probably a politically motivated statement since there is some Nationalism in other Russian political parties.   

> Putin loyalists are even conceding the RAND thing can't be verified and RT even took their article down.

 Real or not, it's a perfect example of American corporate intervention. They write more political policy in America than non-corporate American citizens and they've been highly invested in every war. That's why the Iraqi oil fields are now controlled by private companies instead of Iraq or the Iraqi people.

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## hddscan

> Why? If I were Russian, what that idiot said would get me real pissed off... 
> I mean, they're trying to get your country into their criminal gang stuff, isn't that enough???

 Eric, I consider this post a primitive trollism. It is somewhat insulting to even read it.
But I'm going to accept your "confusion", even it looks like deliberately chosen bait.
You are confusing Russians with Russia.
From the day one of the conflict Russian officials were saying that there are many ethnic Russians in Ukraine and i don't see anything wrong with that expression said by potentially ethnic Russian.
As for "criminal gang stuff", there are many different opinions on that topic, some consider current Ukrainian president to be in "criminal gang stuff" but I don't see any point of discussing that with you, you made it very clear in your previous posts, that you prefer to deny any positive facts that would be related to Russians.
Just try not to throw insults and do not create ethnic and national hatred here.

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## lodka

> WTF?   Perhaps, this?!?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gat-hrgeajQ

 What's crimial in his words? Или ты из тех, кто кричит "Россия для русских"? Я согласна с Путиным,(Вытерто. Л.) Хоть бы историю немного поучили, что ли.

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## 14Russian

> 1 down. 4 left.
> But President Putin didn't call ethnic Russians "idiots". He called *prejudiced* ethnic Russians "idiots". It was probably a politically motivated statement since there is some Nationalism in other Russian political parties.

 Wrong.   Find Russian sites (where they discuss it) or Russians that can translate for you.   Many Russians have said that he called ethnic Russians who want the country for themselves (naturally), idiots.   It's a recognizable insult.  So, he insulted a sizable portion of the population.   Sugarcoating or spinning it as anything else is inaccurate and insulting.   
(Вытерто. Л.)

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## UhOhXplode

> Wrong.   Find Russian sites (where they discuss it) or Russians that can translate for you.   Many Russians have said that he called ethnic Russians who want the country for themselves (naturally), idiots.   It's a recognizable insult.  So, he insulted a sizable portion of the population.   Sugarcoating or spinning it as anything else is inaccurate and insulting.  
> (Вытерто. Л.)

 It's your narrative that takes the statement out of context and makes it inaccurate and insulting. Not mine.
I never jump into a conversation, listen to it for 19 seconds, and expect to know what anyone was discussing.
But I do know that President Putin is opposed to extreme Nationalistic groups that use that slogan and those groups are a very small minority in Russia.  
Video uploaded on February 4, *2010*. That's almost 4 1/2 years ago and it hasn't affected President Putin's popularity in Russia. 
Thanks for the invitation to those Russian sites but I'm not a Navalny supporter. Like I said before, if I was a Russian, I would vote for Vladimir V. Putin, not Alexei Navalny or anyone else in the Progress party. I don't agree with their ideology. 
If you find any more ancient videos, please share. But try for videos longer than 19 seconds - Tbh, that's really not long enough to be very entertaining.

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## dtrq

> WTF?   Perhaps, this?!?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gat-hrgeajQ

 He said nothing about ethnic Russians. And I, as a Russian, agree with what he said.
BTW, recent events in Ukraine proves his words true. You know, they were like "Ukraine for Ukrainians", and what ever came of it.

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## Alex_krsk

В Киеве напали на редакцию издания Вести  Опубликовано видео нападения на редакцию "Вестей" - Korrespondent.net

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## Alex_krsk

CNN высоко оценила успехи АТО на Украине  ::   ::   ::   ::    
I seriously doubt.... are they THAT stupid or it's done on purpose?

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## lodka

> What's crimial in his words? Или ты из тех, кто кричит "Россия для русских"? Я согласна с Путиным,(Вытерто. Л.) Хоть бы историю немного поучили, что ли.

 Лампада, ты либо действительно крайняя лицемерка, либо при сдаче современного ЕГЭ по русскому языку у тебя была бы махровая двойка (там есть задания, проверяющие, насколько ты вообще понял содержание фразы, написанной на русском языке). 
Какой "Переход на личности и грубость"??? На чью личность я перешла? Кому я нагрубила? Тебе вообще, кстати, хорошо известно значение и стилистика слова "придурок"? Учитывая, что я никого конкретно не обзывала, а просто процитировала слова другого человека, особенно лицемерным выглядит то, что вот этот пост с 12-й страницы темы тобой оставлен без внимания, хотя там употреблено гораздо более грубое слово "идиот" и имеется в виду вполне конкретный человек, а автор поста никого не цитирует, а высказывает свое собственное мнение: 
"If I were Russian, what that idiot said would get me real pissed off..." 
Можешь впарить мне сколько хочешь предупреждений или банов, это не отменит того факта, что ты самодурка и лицемерка, и это знает весь форум.

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## RedFox

Еще один мастрид от Галковского, ссылку на которого Лампада, разумеется, удалит: 901. ХОРОШЕЕ ПОВТОРИ И ЕЩЁ РАЗ ПОВТОРИ

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## Lampada

> Лампада, ты либо действительно крайняя лицемерка, либо при сдаче современного ЕГЭ по русскому языку у тебя была бы махровая двойка (там есть задания, проверяющие, насколько ты вообще понял содержание фразы, написанной на русском языке). 
> Какой "Переход на личности и грубость"??? На чью личность я перешла? Кому я нагрубила? Тебе вообще, кстати, хорошо известно значение и стилистика слова "придурок"? Учитывая, что я никого конкретно не обзывала, а просто процитировала слова другого человека, особенно лицемерным выглядит то, что вот этот пост с 12-й страницы темы тобой оставлен без внимания, хотя там употреблено гораздо более грубое слово "идиот" и имеется в виду вполне конкретный человек, а автор поста никого не цитирует, а высказывает свое собственное мнение: 
> "If I were Russian, what that idiot said would get me real pissed off..." 
> Можешь впарить мне сколько хочешь предупреждений или банов, это не отменит того факта, что ты самодурка и лицемерка, и это знает весь форум.

 Бан на три дня и тема закрывается.

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## 14Russian

> He said nothing about ethnic Russians. And I, as a Russian, agree with what he said.
> BTW, recent events in Ukraine proves his words true. You know, they were like "Ukraine for Ukrainians", and what ever came of it.

 Whatever.    Ask Russians in a political forum.   Here's yet another video with the same interpretation.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=263RBEe7lAQ 
I don't want to engage simpletons further.   It's a waste of time.

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