# Forum General General Discussion  happy news

## Biancca

Well this doesn't have to do with Russian but I am really happy because my brother is finally on his way home from Iraq.  Now both of my brothers have been sent to war against their will and shot at and all of those things.  One of my brothers still has nightmares about it all the time, and because they gave him experimental drugs he has some health problems too.  Go U.S.A.!

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## DDT

Experimental drugs! What kind?

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## Biancca

> Experimental drugs! What kind?

 He had to take 3 different medications (which were not FDA approved) that were supposed to help protect against nerve gas.  But it turns out the drugs when taken together cause a kind of arthritis and also make it difficult to have children.  Some return soldiers have been having deformed babies (born without ears etc.)
This was back in the gulf war.

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## Spiderkat

What do you mean by they have been sent against their will? Are they civilians or soldiers?

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## Biancca

> What do you mean by they have been sent against their will? Are they civilians or soldiers?

 Well I was being dramatic.  My one brother was supposed to get out of the army the same day they called and told him he had to go to war. 
The other brother was just in the national guard and he was about to get out of that too when he got sent.   
They almost sent my dad but decided he was too old (he was just in the national guard too) 
I just meant they all didn't want to go.  Who would?

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## DDT

So is this the "Gulf WAr Syndrone" you are talking about or is this new ?

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## Biancca

> So is this the "Gulf WAr Syndrone" you are talking about or is this new ?

 Nothing new, its just that.  But anyway I am happy that my other brother wil be home for Christmas nevermind all the other complaining.

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## DDT

So your brother was in Gulf War I and has been in the Reserves since?

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## Biancca

One brother was in Gulf war I.  He is an elite forces explosives expert.  
The other was in the army and then the reserves.  Hes the one comming home now. 
Dogboy is going to yell at me for doing this whole thread that has nothing to do with Russian.    
Oh well.

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## BlackMage

> Now both of my brothers have been sent to war against their will and shot at and all of those things.

 No offense, but they both signed a contract with the United States Government offering their services for X years for Y dollars.  In exchange for these dollars they were required to do what soldiers do-fight. 
Simliarly, serving in the Reserves doesn't somehow exempt one from taking up arms in defense of the Constitution.  They wanted to be weekend warriors and all that jazz, they have an obligation to this country. 
Sorry, but I'm sick of people *****ing about how they only joined the Army (Navy, Marines, Air Force, etc.) to get paid for college and whatnot.

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## Spiderkat

> I just meant they all didn't want to go.  Who would?

 Actually they wanted to since they made this choice by joining the army. And I would say that their lives don't belong to them anymore but to their country and its leader.

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## Biancca

> Sorry, but I'm sick of people *****ing about how they only joined the Army (Navy, Marines, Air Force, etc.) to get paid for college and whatnot.

 My brother that is comming home would agree with you.  He is very patriotic and he never complained about going (only I did). 
My brother that fought in the gulf war was pressured into the army by my dad but that's another story.  
Anyway sorry about this thread, its one of those things I did without thinking because I am supposed to be studying for a test.

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## Biancca

> And I would say that their lives don't belong to them anymore but to their country and its leader.

 Wow.  Reminds me a little of Hitler.

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## DDT

Go get 'em girl! I want expletives here!!

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## tdk2fe

I've talked to a few people who are in reserves and they basically all say that the government owns you once you sign up.  Like, you can get in trouble if you get sunburns or do things to damage "Government Property".  It's scary, because they pretty much do own you.  [/quote]

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## Spiderkat

> Wow.  Reminds me a little of Hitler.

 Him or the Texan one, there's no difference in their act and invasion is the exact word.  ::

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## Biancca

> Originally Posted by Biancca  Wow.  Reminds me a little of Hitler.   Him or the Texan one, there's no difference in their act and invasion is the exact word.

 Agreed.  ::

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## Spiderkat

> Agreed.

 I guess we are on the same wave on this one.   ::

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## DDT

Boring!!

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## Biancca

> Boring!!

   ::   I knew you would be disappointed.  Maybe BlackMage still wants to fight??

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## BlackMage

I guess the point is, we have an all volunteer army.  That is, each and every member voluntarily joined.  Just because a few soldiers regret their decision doesn't make the whole operation a bad idea.

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## adoc

> Experimental drugs! What kind?

 Probably, acetylcholinesterase reactivators (oximes). Potentially toxic themselves and generally forbidden for testing in humans for obvious reasons (one would have to study how a group of people reacts to nerve gas with and without administration).

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## Biancca

> I guess the point is, we have an all volunteer army.  That is, each and every member voluntarily joined.  Just because a few soldiers regret their decision doesn't make the whole operation a bad idea.

  
What about the draft though?   
  Also, like I was saying they army can recall soldiers for a long time after they are out of the army, i.e. not getting paid anymore.  My brother was done with the army and he got a call saying he had to go to war anyway. 
They also split up families.  On TV they showed a nursing baby being pulled away from its mother so she could go to war.  Things like that.  And my brother that is just now comming home had been out of the army for years, he is not in shape at all, and who knows how long it had been since he had fired a gun but they sent him anyway in my opinion completely unprepared.

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## BlackMage

The draft has not been out of the picture since 1971. 
As for your brother (Unless I am sorely mistaken)... he had finished his tour of _active duty_, but not his obligation to the US Army.

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## Mordan

> Originally Posted by Spiderkat  And I would say that their lives don't belong to them anymore but to their country and its leader.   Wow.  Reminds me a little of Hitler.

 
lol don't know why but this exchange in particular made me laugh  ::

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## Mordan

> Originally Posted by Biancca  Wow.  Reminds me a little of Hitler.   Him or the Texan one, there's no difference in their act and invasion is the exact word.

 common! don't bring this subject up. Saddam killed more.  
just happy for Biancca  
it seems that the way the system works sucks. Looks also like you are selling your soul to the Gov? 
i don't have time to argue, but as a stone hearted stateman as I can sometimes be, Irak liberation was initially a good thing. However the guys who carried out the war deserve to get their ass spanked red.

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## Spiderkat

> The draft has not been out of the picture since 1971. 
> As for your brother (Unless I am sorely mistaken)... he had finished his tour of _active duty_, but not his obligation to the US Army.

 Then they become reservists for an amount of years and the army may order them to be back as active when needed.

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## DDT

> They also split up families.  On TV they showed a nursing baby being pulled away from its mother so she could go to war.

 You can thank the Femminist Movement for that.

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## Biancca

> Originally Posted by Biancca  
> They also split up families.  On TV they showed a nursing baby being pulled away from its mother so she could go to war.   You can thank the Femminist Movement for that.

 I don't know what to think about femminists.  I agree with a lot of things like that women should be independent etc. (says me who has never had a job) but I don't hate all men or anything like that.  I guess when you take a good idea to the extreme it gets corrupted.

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## subpar

Уф! I hope all goes well for the both brothers. 
[insert controversial political opinion based on abosolutely nothing here]

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## Spiderkat

> Originally Posted by Biancca  
> They also split up families.  On TV they showed a nursing baby being pulled away from its mother so she could go to war.   You can thank the Femminist Movement for that.

 And I think we can call this to be hit by the other side of the coin.

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## kalinka_vinnie

Well at least both your brothers are alive, and haven't paid the ultimate sacrifice for what seems to be an increasingly pointless war.

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## subpar

Well put! *clap clap*

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## Biancca

> The draft has not been out of the picture since 1971.

 But they were talking about reinstating it.  
I am happy they are both alive.  The one in the gulf war said he felt a bullet graze his head.  He fired back and then he had to see the guy he shot in the head.  He got creadit for hundreds of kills because his unit had to blow up buildings.  I guess thats where the nightmares come from. 
But at least he is alive. 
OK I will stop with the sob stories now.  ::

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## BlackMage

> increasingly pointless war

 Tell that to the democratic peoples of Iraq.   

> But they were talking about reinstating it.

 Who is this 'they'?
Sources, please.

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## kalinka_vinnie

> Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie  increasingly pointless war   Tell that to the democratic peoples of Iraq.

 It is your "democratic peoples" of Iraq who want us out. Not only the insurgents.  
My opinion is just the longer we stay, the worse it is going to get. Our presence is not helping the situation, but worsening it. Almost all rebuilding progress has been hampered and sabotaged. At times when our deficit is larger it has every been in the history of US, do we really want to stay in Iraq another 2,5,10 years?  
BTW, which "democratic peoples of Iraq" asked us to invade them in the first place?

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## Spiderkat

> ...
> BTW, which "democratic peoples of Iraq" asked us to invade them in the first place?

 Exactly! What would the american people say if another country decided to invade the US and help the hundreds and hundreds of homeless dying on the streets, for example. And while they're at it replace the leader because they believe this one is no good.

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## Biancca

> Who is this 'they'?
> Sources, please.

 Good point lol.  I forgot where I heard that even, I think someone was saying it on tv but I don't remember who    ::  .

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## Biancca

> What would the american people say if another country decided to invade the US and help the hundreds and hundreds of homeless dying on the streets, for example. And while they're at it replace the leader because they believe this one is no good.

 Well said!  One difference is that Americans supposedly have the choice of replacing our own leader if we want to. 
My gov't teacher said we have the richest of the rich and also the poorest of the poor.  But I wish that could be solved without an invasion please.

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## kalinka_vinnie

> My gov't teacher said we have the richest of the rich and also* the poorest of the poor*.  But I wish that could be solved without an invasion please.

 I think the bolded portion of your post is very exaggerated. Poor people in America are much better off than poor people in Africa, no matter what the democrats say!

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## BlackMage

[quote=kalinka_vinnie] 

> Originally Posted by "kalinka_vinnie":1czpv3xy  increasingly pointless war   Tell that to the democratic peoples of Iraq.

 It is your "democratic peoples" of Iraq who want us out. Not only the insurgents.  
My opinion is just the longer we stay, the worse it is going to get. Our presence is not helping the situation, but worsening it. Almost all rebuilding progress has been hampered and sabotaged. At times when our deficit is larger it has every been in the history of US, do we really want to stay in Iraq another 2,5,10 years?  
BTW, which "democratic peoples of Iraq" asked us to invade them in the first place?[/quote:1czpv3xy] 
By your logic we should never have fought WW2 because the Jews never asked for our help.

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## kalinka_vinnie

> By your logic we should never have fought WW2 because the Jews never asked for our help.

   ::  News alert:   ::   
We didn't fight the war to help the Jews. We fought the war because the Japanese attacked US. Let us get the facts straight. The war did not start to save the jews, be it UK, France, Russia or anybody. Just as this war wasn't started to 'save' the Iraqis.

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## BlackMage

> BTW, which "democratic peoples of Iraq" asked us to invade them in the first place?

 I'm refuting _your_ point, using a historical example.   
(We can fight a war though the oppressed peoples haven't asked us.)

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## Spiderkat

> ... We fought the war because the Japanese attacked US.
> ...

 Let me rephrase this one. We fought the war because we let the Japanese attacked US. And I will add, to have a good reason to go to war.

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## kalinka_vinnie

But we aren't fighting the war to free the opressed people of Iraq. No country has ever gone to war for the express purpose of freeing "opressed people", there is always more important reasons to the country in question. 
Offical reasons for war:
(1) to eliminate Saddam's weapons of mass destruction (WMD); (mission accomplished (in 1991))
(2) to diminish the threat of international terrorism; (err... uh... well... not yet)
and (3) to promote democracy in Iraq and surrounding areas  
So, since (1) falls away (a fact that should not be ignored), (2) is getting worse with every day, is the whole muslim world is chanting love songs yet?  
we are left with (3) Shotgun democracy. The people are so free that they are free of security, stability and money. We can obviously see the democracy florishing in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria and so on. 
Admit it, the war is pointless. At least Afghanistan was successful, we had the world on our side. We went ot Iraq against the world, oh how that helps the American image. We are undoing ourselves.

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## Spiderkat

> I'm refuting _your_ point, using a historical example.   
> (We can fight a war though the oppressed peoples haven't asked us.)

 It is not that simple. There's so many countries with oppressed people and nothing will be done unless there's something that is worth helping them, which would be things like the wealth of the earth, the location of the country, and so forth.

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## kalinka_vinnie

> Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie   ... We fought the war because the Japanese attacked US.
> ...   Let me rephrase this one. We fought the war because we let the Japanese attacked US. And I will add, to have a good reason to go to war.

 I don't know, I have also heard that _theory_. Note that the U.S. didn't declare war on Germany, Germany did on the U.S. 11 December 1941, three days after the U.S. declared war on Japan. 
But of course U.S. wasn't totally neutral in the conflict, lending alot of money and equipment to the U.K. at the time. It wasn't in U.S.'s best interest to have a Nazi Europe.

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## Spiderkat

> ...
> But of course U.S. wasn't totally neutral in the conflict, lending alot of money and equipment to the U.K. at the time. It wasn't in U.S.'s best interest to have a Nazi Europe.

 I agree. A Nazi Westhern Europe and a communist Eastern Europe wasn't the US government's best interest, although some American compagnies and holdings were happy with it.

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## DDT

Why we went to war can be debated all you want.... but it won't solve anything. The reason we are still there is what is important now. It is pretty clear why we are still in Iraq. Everybody pretty much is aware that if we pull out tomorrow the real bloodbath would begin and after the killing had stopped Iraq would be nothing more than another Afgahnistan complete with  terrorists training camps. Even President Putin ( of whom, is one of the few leaders I have great respect for)  has said that Bush can not pull out yet. 
All of this bickering by so called world leaders about pulling out of Iraq is only making us have to stay longer by giving insurgents hope that if they only hold out a little longer they will win. 
Lastly for all those that thought that we could just go in there and get out quick. When has history showed that this was possible? Look how long the allies have been in Germany and Japan.

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## Plastic-Saint

"Tell that to the democratic peoples of Iraq." 
  They won't be very democratic for long... just like middle ages europe wasn't democratic... any society that allows religion/philosophy/dogma to govern everything will have problems because not everyone has the same religion/philosophy. 
  Also, argueing about something like this is pretty silly as everyone taking part has their minds set in a certain frame and will, most likely, not be swayed by a conversation on an online Forum...

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## Spiderkat

> ...
> Lastly for all those that thought that we could just go in there and get out quick. When has history showed that this was possible? Look how long the allies have been in Germany and Japan.

 You can't make this kind of comparaison because Germany was a strategic location during the cold war. That's the only reason why they stayed that long, and also to rebuild the country they had completely destroyed. 
But I agree, it would be foolish to ask the US army to leave Iraq tomorrow. The thing is whether they stay or leave won't help this country. They stupidly thought that Iraqi would have acclaimed and welcomed the US army the same way it happened in Europe. Plus, so many lies and bullshиt had been told concerning the so called "rescue", and this didn't help the situation either.

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## DDT

> They won't be very democratic for long.

 Actually I agree with that. So, the problem now is should we just give up and walk away knowing there will be a blood bath or at least try to ensure that there won't be too much killing by sticking around a little longer? Do you want to be the politician that makes that decision?

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## Biancca

> Also, argueing about something like this is pretty silly as everyone taking part has their minds set in a certain frame and will, most likely, not be swayed by a conversation on an online Forum...

 If your objective is to get everyone to think like you then yes it would be silly to try. 
I think there are other reasons to express you opinion besides just getting other people to agree with you.  And I am willing to listen to people that I disagree with as well.

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## DDT

> You can't make this kind of comparaison because Germany was a strategic location during the cold war. That's the only reason why they stayed that long, and also to rebuild the country they had completely destroyed.
> .

 I donknow SpiderKat, seems like you just explained my point about staying in Iraq real nice with this post!!!

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## kalinka_vinnie

> Originally Posted by Plastic-Saint  
>   They won't be very democratic for long.   Actually I agree with that. So, the problem now is should we just give up and walk away knowing there will be a blood bath or at least try to ensure that there won't be too much killing by sticking around a little longer? Do you want to be the politician that makes that decision?

 You are damned if you do, and damned if you don't. 
Opinion parts on how damned you will be in either case. 
We will be paying for mistakes for a long time, fellas.

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## DDT

Oh look! We have really stuffed up Biancas thread haven't we?

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## adoc

> They stupidly thought that Iraqi would have acclaimed and welcomed the US army the same way it happened in Europe.

 Whatever you may think of your government, I don't believe they are that stupid.  The result of that war was obvious to pretty much everyone from the very beginning (Saddam will be caught or killed, no WMD will be found, the economic and political infrastructures of the country will be ruined, no "democracy" will be possible to implement, the US army will be stuck in the destroyed country on the brink of civilian war).  And if all that was outweighed by certain private interests of a small group of people, so what? I am not judging. At some point I lived in the USSR, the other "truly democratic country helping the oppressed people all over the world".  It's amazing how well the US government's BS mirrors the one I was exposed to in the 70s-80's

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## Biancca

> Oh look! We have really stuffed up Biancas thread haven't we?

 Thanks!    ::   4 pages in 1 day.  Not bad!

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## Spiderkat

> Whatever you may think of your government, I don't believe they are that stupid.

 Actually it's not mine but it's doesn't matter. I didn't say they're stupid but the idea of theirs.  

> so what?

 To me there's no point invading a country to create a bigger mess, and especially when the reasons are only based on lies.

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## Lampada

> Well this doesn't have to do with Russian but I am really happy because my brother is finally on his way home from Iraq.  Now both of my brothers have been sent to war against their will and shot at and all of those things.  One of my brothers still has nightmares about it all the time, and because they gave him experimental drugs he has some health problems too.  Go U.S.A.!

 Очень хорошая новость!  Спасибо, что поделилась с нами.  Главное, что живы твои братья!  Сразу вспомнилась песня: http://67.104.22.37/russ/mp3/songs/vv100_03.mp3 
Подумаешь — в семье не очень складно,
Подумаешь — неважно с головой,
Подумаешь — с работою неладно, — *Скажи ещё спасибо, что живой.* 
Ну что ж такого — мучает изжога?
Ну что ж такого — не пришёл домой?
Ну что ж такого — наказали строго? —
Скажи ещё спасибо, что живой. 
Нечего играть с судьбою в прятки!
Так давай, кривая, вывози!
В общем, всё нормально, всё в порядке,
Всё, как говорится, "на мази"! 
Что-что? Партнёр играет слишком грубо?
Что-что? Приснился ночью домовой?
Что-что? На ринге выбили два зуба?
Скажи ещё спасибо, что живой. 
Да ладно — потерял алмаз в опилках,
Ну, ладно, что на финише другой, 
Да ладно — потащили на носилках,
Скажи ещё спасибо, что живой. 
Нечего играть с судьбою в прятки!
Так давай, кривая, вывози!
В общем, всё нормально, всё в порядке,
И, как говорится, "на мази"! 
Неважно, что не ты играл на скрипке,
Неважно, что ты бледный и худой,
Неважно, что побили по ошибке,
Скажи ещё спасибо, что живой. 
Всё правильно: кто хочет — тот и может,
Всё верно: в каждом деле выбор — твой,
Всё так; но вот одно меня тревожит:
Кому сказать спасибо, что живой? 
И нечего играть с судьбою в прятки!
Так давай, кривая, вывози!
В общем, всё нормально, всё в порядке,
Всё, как говорится, "на мази"!

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## tdk2fe

It's funny how someone being happy about their brother returning from war can turn into a war of the ideologies  ::

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## Biancca

> It's funny how someone being happy about their brother returning from war can turn into a war of the ideologies

 I blame DDT    ::   
Lampada- That was a neat little song, I liked it.  Thanks.

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## Vesh

> My gov't teacher said we have the richest of the rich

 Yes.  

> and also the poorest of the poor.

 S/he doesn't have a slightest clue what s/he is talking about.

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## Rodja

I tried to make a translation.  
Подумаешь — в семье не очень складно, 
I say all is well with your family
Подумаешь — неважно с головой, 
I say unimportant in your head ???
Подумаешь — с работою неладно, — 
I say your job is wrong
Скажи ещё спасибо, что живой. 
Always say thanks to be alive 
Ну что ж такого — мучает изжога? 
Well what about being tortured by heartburn
Ну что ж такого — не пришёл домой? 
Well what about no return home
Ну что ж такого — наказали строго? — 
Well what about severe punishment
Скажи ещё спасибо, что живой. 
Always say thanks to be alive 
Нечего играть с судьбою в прятки! 
Nothing plays hide and seek with destiny
Так давай, кривая, вывози! 
So go, ???, take out!
В общем, всё нормально, всё в порядке, 
In general, everything is normal, in order.
Всё, как говорится, "на мази"! 
Everything as they say, “oiled” 
Что-что? Партнёр играет слишком грубо? 
What? Your partner plays too rough?
Что-что? Приснился ночью домовой? 
What? Dreamt to be home at night?
Что-что? На ринге выбили два зуба? 
What? Two teeth have been beaten out?
Скажи ещё спасибо, что живой. 
Always say thanks to be alive 
Да ладно — потерял алмаз в опилках, 
Well all right, you lost a diamond in sawdust,
Ну, ладно, что на финише другой, 
But, all right, somebody else finished (first)
Да ладно — потащили на носилках, 
Yes, all right, being carried out on an stretcher.
Скажи ещё спасибо, что живой. 
Always say thanks to be alive 
Нечего играть с судьбою в прятки! 
Так давай, кривая, вывози! 
В общем, всё нормально, всё в порядке, 
И, как говорится, "на мази"!  
Неважно, что не ты играл на скрипке, 
It’s unimportant, that you don’t play violin,
Неважно, что ты бледный и худой, 
It’s unimportant, that you’re pale and thin
Неважно, что побили по ошибке, 
It’s unimportant, that you’re beaten by mistake
Скажи ещё спасибо, что живой. 
Always say thanks to be alive 
Всё правильно: кто хочет — тот и может, 
All is right: who wants, can 
Всё верно: в каждом деле выбор — твой, 
All is true: In every matter you have choice
Всё так; но вот одно меня тревожит:
All well; but here’s one that puzzles me:
Кому сказать спасибо, что живой? 
To whom to tell thanks to be alive 
И нечего играть с судьбою в прятки! 
Так давай, кривая, вывози! 
В общем, всё нормально, всё в порядке, 
Всё, как говорится, "на мази"!

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## Biancca

> Originally Posted by Biancca  My gov't teacher said we have the richest of the rich   Yes.       Originally Posted by Biancca  and also the poorest of the poor.   S/he doesn't have a slightest clue what s/he is talking about.

 If he wants to argue with you he can I'm not going to stick up for him.  We do have starving people, homeless people, sometimes people freeze to death downtown, etc.  There is a 3 month wait to get into the homeless shelter ih Salt Lake...but my mom was in the peace corps in Africa and I have heard all kinds of things so I think my teacher is wrong too.

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## Vesh

> Originally Posted by Vesh        Originally Posted by Biancca  My gov't teacher said we have the richest of the rich   Yes.       Originally Posted by Biancca  and also the poorest of the poor.   S/he doesn't have a slightest clue what s/he is talking about.   If he wants to argue with you he can I'm not going to stick up for him.  We do have starving people, homeless people, sometimes people freeze to death downtown, etc.  There is a 3 month wait to get into the homeless shelter ih Salt Lake...but my mom was in the peace corps in Africa and I have heard all kinds of things so I think my teacher is wrong too.

 We do have poor people. But they are FAR from being poorest of the poor.

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