# Forum Learning Russian Language Pronunciation, Speech & Accent  Held up on ы and й

## Rosa Anna

й and ы  
what is the "sound" difference, please. ie: pronunciation basic. и sounds like "ee", and ы sounds like "ih", but й sounds like "?" what does it sound like... _helllllllp!"_   ::   ::

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## saibot

й is called "и краткое", which literally means "short и".  and that's exactly what it is.  Its just a shorter и.  And ы is kinda like the "i" in ill, or dim.  I cant really explain how to do it.  It took me like a year to get it down fully. The only thing i can say is just listen to it alot.  Then you will get it. 
You can listen to the alphabet here...maybe it will help. http://www.learningrussian.com/alphabet.mp3

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## chaika

Й sounds just like the Y in 'boy' 
In fact, we have this Russian word meaning 'battle, combat, fight, fighting': 
бой 
The Б probably isn't as breathy as it is in English, but otherwise it's pronounced pretty much the same. 
And then there's the word Йогурт. How do you think you say that??? =:^)

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## Zhenya

like j   ::  
Do listen to the sounds, it's the only way of getting it right...
I've heard people pronouncing english from description, it wasn't to good!

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## saibot

Also try this program.  Its called Alphabet letter-by-letter.  It can help you master the alphabet.  Download it here...  http://www.learningrussian.com/alphabetru.zip 
If you wondering where i got it.... http://www.learningrussian.com/alphabet.htm 
Oops.  I got it from a rival site...hehe

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## Rosa Anna

Thanks Saibot, Zhenya, Chaika,  
I will try all of those. Again. But... I may be back. Thank you for the additional download site too. I think it will be very helpful to listen in a variety of voices. Eventually, I hope the inflection comes out to my ears. Also, my cryillic does not even accent и like this. I'll keep at it. Very grumpy to be having a tough time with it.
Saibot's version of the letter being a shortened и is what I am going to stick to for understanding for now, as comparing the sound of i in dim and y in boy do not sound like the same thing to me at all. 
Yogurt...Chaika   ::

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## Rosa Anna

> http://www.learningrussian.com/alphabetru.zip

   ::  OOH Yeah, THAT GOOD.   ::

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## saibot

Im glad it helped   ::

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## Rosa Anna

Did everyone remember to load their clocks forward an hour?

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## saibot

Yeah I did.  It was like all over the news and tv.  I kept being reminded. 
I couldn't forget it.

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## Pravit

> Did everyone remember to load their clocks forward an hour?

 Yeah, I hate that crap. Why can't we just stay on the time before this and stick to it? I *liked* it.

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## kalinka_vinnie

Because the pope died and we are changing the time in his honor

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## Rosa Anna

Where is all this news everyone keeps talking about? I missed it all. 
We spring forward and fall back so the light of day makes sense?   ::

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## saibot

это конспирация....  ::

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## Pravit

I saw your comment in Tech Support and Site Comments, Rosa Anna. 
Most of the time Й is used to modify other vowels so they make a different sound. You never see it alone. For example 
бо - bo
бой - boi 
ко - ko
кой - koi 
You will also sometimes see it in the beginning of words, in which case you should just pronounce it as a "y." 
It is hard to pronounce this letter alone for the same reason it is hard to pronounce "y" alone - sure you can say "why", but that's the name of the letter, not it's sound.

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## Rosa Anna

Pravit,  
Yes, I saw your reply there. Clarity hit me earlier today that the wording after the letter might actually translate something to the effect of short...but I didn't check it out. Then, after the two of you commented back I altavista'd it.  ::   is now   ::   ::   ::  I hope an overly well fed man in a red suit brings you many many baubles. For the extra instructional though...sigh. That's it--very much (insert russian equivalent here ) спасибо!!!!! 
Saibot! это конспирация.....
LMAO... yes it is.
I was having trouble with the U's today too. у\ю\ы  
I took your listening advice, with inspiration from the download visual/audio, and added the three of them (now that и and и kractyeo is out of the way) to the real video playlist by themselves. Over and over and over and finally...the difference presents itself. 
Rambling...

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## TATY

> Pravit,  
> Yes, I saw your reply there. Clarity hit me earlier today that the wording after the letter might actually translate something to the effect of short...but I didn't check it out. Then, after the two of you commented back I altavista'd it.   is now     I hope an overly well fed man in a red suit brings you many many baubles. For the extra instructional though...sigh. That's it--very much (insert russian equivalent here ) спасибо!!!!! 
> Saibot! это конспирация.....
> LMAO... yes it is.
> I was having trouble with the U's today too. у\ю\ы  
> I took your listening advice, with inspiration from the download visual/audio, and added the three of them (now that и and и kractyeo is out of the way) to the real video playlist by themselves. Over and over and over and finally...the difference presents itself. 
> Rambling...

 I see what you mean, but ы isn't a u.

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## ramyfishler

the point is that ы goes with hard consonants while и goes with soft ones.
basicly. in hard consonants the back of the tongue goes down and in soft ones it goes up. as in pronouncing the vowel ee. 
now if you try to pronounce a hard consonant and the vowel и together. you get ы. and you a bit like you've been hit in the belly.  ::  
for example try saing "бa" (hard, back of the tongue down) and then keep your mouth shaped the same and try to pronounce би what you get is бы.

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## fantom605

> That's it--very much (insert russian equivalent here ) спасибо!!!!!

 большой спасибо  :: 
  -Fantom 
ps- I see the й transliterated as j in some translators, but I've never seen my Russian friends use it... How is it transliterated most of the time?  y?  i?

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## saibot

> Originally Posted by Rosa Anna   That's it--very much (insert russian equivalent here ) спасибо!!!!!   большой спасибо 
>   -Fantom 
> ps- I see the й transliterated as j in some translators, but I've never seen my Russian friends use it... How is it transliterated most of the time?  y?  i?

 спасибо большое 
I like to transliterate it "i".

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## chaika

Rosa Anna, even though the name of the character И краткое translates as "short i", the sound it makes is not a short i any more than the /y/ in "boy" is. I guess if you'd call the y in boy a "short i", then you can call Й a short i. But that is not the accepted terminology. Й is not a vowel.

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by Rosa Anna   That's it--very much (insert russian equivalent here ) спасибо!!!!!   большой спасибо 
>   -Fantom 
> ps- I see the й transliterated as j in some translators, but I've never seen my Russian friends use it... How is it transliterated most of the time?  y?  i?

 When the target language is English, it is usually transliterated as y or i. 
J is used for languages where J = English y, like German, the Slavic languages with use Latin alphabet.  
Transliterations vary depending on the target language:
Где ты живёшь?
English - Gde ty zhivyosh'?
German - Gde ty zhivjosch'
Czech - Gdě ty živjoš' (maybe živ'oš' even)

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## Rosa Anna

> I see what you mean, but ы isn't a u.

 I see that now. The sound I was getting on the audio of just the letter sounds very much to me like an "EU" I was picking out the man's breath at the end as a U I think. But in a program I downloaded from Declan (and other places where full words are "hearable" the spoken words sound more "like a small i or e" it it'll work itself out. I see what you mean Chaika about my relating a "consonant" to a vowel.   

> the point is that ы goes with hard consonants while и goes with soft ones.
> basicly. in hard consonants the back of the tongue goes down and in soft ones it goes up. as in pronouncing the vowel ee. 
> now if you try to pronounce a hard consonant and the vowel и together. you get ы. and you a bit like you've been hit in the belly.  
> for example try saing "бa" (hard, back of the tongue down) and then keep your mouth shaped the same and try to pronounce би what you get is бы.

   ::  hit in the belly....if that's what it takes...    

> большой спасибо 
>   -Fantom 
> ps- I see the й transliterated as j in some translators, but I've never seen my Russian friends use it... How is it transliterated most of the time?  y?  i?

 thanks   ::    

> Rosa Anna, even though the name of the character И краткое translates as "short i", the sound it makes is not a short i any more than the /y/ in "boy" is. I guess if you'd call the y in boy a "short i", then you can call Й a short i. But that is not the accepted terminology. Й is not a vowel.

 ah. 
I will try listening now to an й\и\ы soundtrack. 
Everything else here is very especially helpful, especially everything taken together. Thank you for working with me on this as you did. 
I found my й key. Like an idiot who never uses the "q" key that is where ...  
Gets that "I'm on the verge of a breakthough now frustrations hit mahc 10" misty eyed girl look.  ::  
God I love Russian.

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## Rosa Anna

> Й is not a vowel.

 But. But. But. Both my book (which really contradicts itself) and readwrite (it's full of bugs so who knows) program say it is a "soft vowel". Though... I am willing to believe it is a consanant..at least for a while   ::

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by chaika   Й is not a vowel.   But. But. But. Both my book (which really contradicts itself) and readwrite (it's full of bugs so who knows) program say it is a "soft vowel". Though... I am willing to believe it is a consanant..at least for a while

 й is basically the same as English Y, in words like Yam, boy, guy, may, yes. Y in English is sometimes known as a semi-vowel, but officially it is a consonant.

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## chaika

this may be the first time I agree with taty.

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## Rosa Anna

> this may be the first time I agree with taty.

 Why? Do you two fight? 
Well, ok, there is a good explaination on a page link the manager offered up on the technical section that I haven't been able to find through the many masterrussian links yet-but I got it through the link -hoorah. It says something to the effect of (not exact wording), make the sound i as in mit, then make the...no no no that is not it. It says place your tounge inbetween the sound of i as in mit and u as in sugar and you come up with ы. I don't "actually remember" the sound of English y, and it was probably the hardest letter I learned when a kid. I know what it sounds like when it is connected to a word but not by itself.  I could look it up, and probably will, maybe, but I am so very tired of the English Language-IN GENERAL. and might prefer surgery to looking up the meaning of Y. The sound I got from the link is matching the sound from the audio. Giving it I's and Y's won't help-though I appreciate the effort!~ The link says there is not an English equivalent. I'm ok with that. I actually like the sound of ы.
Thanks Guys~and Gals
Rosa Anna

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by chaika  this may be the first time I agree with taty.   Why? Do you two fight? 
> Well, ok, there is a good explaination on a page link the manager offered up on the technical section that I haven't been able to find through the many masterrussian links yet-but I got it through the link -hoorah. It says something to the effect of (not exact wording), make the sound i as in mit, then make the...no no no that is not it. It says place your tounge inbetween the sound of i as in mit and u as in sugar and you come up with ы. I don't "actually remember" the sound of English y, and it was probably the hardest letter I learned when a kid. I know what it sounds like when it is connected to a word but not by itself.  I could look it up, and probably will, maybe, but I am so very tired of the English Language-IN GENERAL. and might prefer surgery to looking up the meaning of Y. The sound I got from the link is matching the sound from the audio. Giving it I's and Y's won't help-though I appreciate the effort!~ The link says there is not an English equivalent. I'm ok with that. I actually like the sound of ы.
> Thanks Guys~and Gals
> Rosa Anna

 
If you look at the definition of a vowel, the letter й doesn't fir the definition, therefore isn't a vowel.
The break down of the Russian alphabet is: 
Ten vowels*
21 consonants (or 20 if you count Е and Ё as one letter)
2 znaks 
Я Е Ю Ё are technically not vowels though, since they represent two sounds: й + а = я. They do contain vowel sounds though.
й + э = е
й + у = ю
й + о = ё

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## Rosa Anna

> If you look at the definition of a vowel, the letter й doesn't fir the definition, therefore isn't a vowel.

 By whose definition though? English or Russian. I can see how by by the English definition of a vowel the й would be a vowel. Because english definition of a vowel is (for one example): "A speech sound, such as...( (e) or (a)", created by the relatively free passage of breath through the larynx and oral cavity, usually forming the most prominent and central sound of a syllable. 
A letter, such as a, e, i, o, u, and sometimes y in the English alphabet, that represents a vowel (dictionary.com)" But, Russia makes the rules for it's own language-and to learn that I need to follow those rules to the highest quality I am able. I imagine has it's own set of rules for characters, language, ect...not based upon English stuff.
In fact if I followed the above description for a vowel (English style) than й would be a vowel and ю\е\я\ё would not because the (yoo-ye-yah-yo) sound interrupts the passage of free flowing air through the larnx..... 
Edit: Still not sure about that "prominent and central stuff"-- but even at a couple of hours a day I have a long way to go. 
I guess I'm still confused as to why you would classify й as a consanant when Russian instruction (here) and in my book for example says that Й is grouped in the concept in Russian of what is most easily understood in American as vowel. 
Help? I'm not trying to be pesky, I'm just trying to understand what your saying. й is not a Russian vowel because English definition of vowel says it can't be a vowel by English rules? I guess I need to search around a bit to see what Russian concept is this letter, and what Russian rules govern it. I'm sure it has nothing to do with English language; it's just trying to be understood by English people-or Chinese, or Franks (whatever). Russian instruction says I am to think of this set of letters in a group, "let's call it vowel". Russian instruction says I am to think of those other letters  in a group, "lets call it consonant". Okies...sounds good to me. Shrug.  ::  
*Edit: Taty, are you saying that Russian character й does not meet the rules of the group that it is governed by?" 
oh gee....nuther long study night If I'm lucky enough to get the work I brought home finished.

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## chaika

The reason for the "and sometimes y" is words like  my, thy, spy. That is, the thinking goes that the letter Y must be a vowel because we don't have vowelless words in English, as they do in Czech, for example, where Strč prst skrz krk is a (humorous tho it may be, more or less) perfectly normal utterance.  But Y really isn't a vowel. 
The word spelled my really consists of three sounds, /m/, /a/ as in aha!, and /j/. Phonemically we write it /m

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by TATY  If you look at the definition of a vowel, the letter й doesn't fir the definition, therefore isn't a vowel.   By whose definition though? English or Russian. I can see how by by the English definition of a vowel the й would be a vowel. Because english definition of a vowel is (for one example): "A speech sound, such as...( (e) or (a)", created by the relatively free passage of breath through the larynx and oral cavity, usually forming the most prominent and central sound of a syllable. 
> A letter, such as a, e, i, o, u, and sometimes y in the English alphabet, that represents a vowel (dictionary.com)" But, Russia makes the rules for it's own language-and to learn that I need to follow those rules to the highest quality I am able. I imagine has it's own set of rules for characters, language, ect...not based upon English stuff.
> In fact if I followed the above description for a vowel (English style) than й would be a vowel and ю\е\я\ё would not because the (yoo-ye-yah-yo) sound interrupts the passage of free flowing air through the larnx..... 
> Edit: Still not sure about that "prominent and central stuff"-- but even at a couple of hours a day I have a long way to go. 
> I guess I'm still confused as to why you would classify й as a consanant when Russian instruction (here) and in my book for example says that Й is grouped in the concept in Russian of what is most easily understood in American as vowel. 
> Help? I'm not trying to be pesky, I'm just trying to understand what your saying. й is not a Russian vowel because English definition of vowel says it can't be a vowel by English rules? I guess I need to search around a bit to see what Russian concept is this letter, and what Russian rules govern it. I'm sure it has nothing to do with English language; it's just trying to be understood by English people-or Chinese, or Franks (whatever). Russian instruction says I am to think of this set of letters in a group, "let's call it vowel". Russian instruction says I am to think of those other letters  in a group, "lets call it consonant". Okies...sounds good to me. Shrug.  
> *Edit: Taty, are you saying that Russian character й does not meet the rules of the group that it is governed by?" 
> oh gee....nuther long study night If I'm lucky enough to get the work I brought home finished.

 A vowel is not defined in English, or Russian, or French, or Swalhili, a vowel is a vowel in any language* 
*sort of. The vowel sound is a vowel sound, although the character it is represented by may denote a different sound in the other language.
E.g., in English Y can have a vowel sound when it is used to replace I. In Czech Y is a vowel in words like Ty (tee). In Russian Й is not a vowel since it always has the English Y sound of *y*am, *y*earn, *y*ear  
You don't understand what a vowel is. So I'll tell you. In phonetics, a vowel is a sound in spoken language that is characterised by an open configuration of the vocal tract, in contrast to consonants, which are characterised by a constriction or closure at one or more points along the vocal tract. 
If you say the English vowel sounds (SOUNDS not their names):
say ah, eh, oh, ee, oo,
These are vowel sounds. Your mouth, and throat and stuff is open. 
Now say m, n, k. There are closures or partial closing of different parts of the mouth and/or throat.
Now say й. Й is the inital y sounds in *y*am, *y*ou. You should feel the back of your throat raise. This is a constriction of the vocal tract and therefore is not a vowel sound.

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## Rosa Anna

> In Russian Й is not a vowel since it always has the English Y sound of *y*am, *y*earn, *y*ear  
> You don't understand what a vowel is. So I'll tell you. In phonetics, a vowel is a sound in spoken language that is characterised by an open configuration of the vocal tract, in contrast to consonants, which are characterised by a constriction or closure at one or more points along the vocal tract.

   ::  um Taty? Thanks for writing back. I don't "understand" what a vowel is-This is fact...sort of.  
Other: I see no where stating that и or й has "Y" sound. Sorry....
Link?   ::  Though I think I may have read where depending on the word it's sound may be affected by other characters in the word.

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by TATY   In Russian Й is not a vowel since it always has the English Y sound of *y*am, *y*earn, *y*ear  
> You don't understand what a vowel is. So I'll tell you. In phonetics, a vowel is a sound in spoken language that is characterised by an open configuration of the vocal tract, in contrast to consonants, which are characterised by a constriction or closure at one or more points along the vocal tract.     um Taty? Thanks for writing back. I don't "understand" what a vowel is-This is fact...sort of.  
> Other: I see no where stating that и or й has "Y" sound. Sorry....
> Link?   Though I think I may have read where depending on the word it's sound may be affected by other characters in the word.

 Й has a y sound.  
й is y in may 
"Note that consonant й (also called semivowel) occurs only in combinations with vowels:
     a) й + vowel: йод(iodine), йога(yoga);
     b) vowel + й: мой(my), чай(tea), синий(blue), белый(white)." 
Й is always soft.
The hard variant of Й (absent in Russian) would be like Ukrainian Г

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## Kamion

I

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## Rosa Anna

Actually, my book translates it as an "i", and y in English is only sometimes a vowel. I'm still trying to find a solid answer to the question and a clear source. I don't care either way, just the facts please..  ::

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## Rosa Anna

Thanks all-especially for the help with the sound ы. I am going to leave this topic now as it is taking me way    ::      ::   ::

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## TATY

> Actually, my book translates it as an "i", and y in English is only sometimes a vowel. I'm still trying to find a solid answer to the question and a clear source. I don't care either way, just the facts please..

 Fact 1. = A vowel is a sound produced with a free flow of air through an unconstricted and open vocal tract.
Fact 2. = To pronounce Й the back of the tongue raises to the soft palate.
Fact 3. = This is obviously a constriction of the vocal tract.
Fact 4. = Therefore Й is not a vowel.

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## chaika

taty, 
good, but what's the deal with R L M N  
They don't fit somehow?

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## Propp

> taty, 
> good, but what's the deal with R L M N  
> They don't fit somehow?

 The vocal tract is NOT *nconstricted and open* in their case.

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## TATY

> taty, 
> good, but what's the deal with R L M N  
> They don't fit somehow?

 
To say the *r* in *r*at, *r*eally, *wr*ong, firstly the mouth starts CLOSED, as does M. 
N involves the tip of the tongue.
The vocal tract is from the throat to the lips I believe.  
The one that people often mention in English H, but to pronounce this the back of the troat is slightly closed, and is therefore a consonant.

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## chaika

taty, I was just pulling your leg. 
These consonants belong to a special group, called sonorants.

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## mp510

й is not a vowel. й is not a consoanant. й is called a semi-vowel.  I believe that the reason behind that is that it can only be used in conjunction with another vowel. 
Tй would not be pronounced tie because й could NEVER come after ANY consonant. 
TOй woulod be pronounced toy. 
ий makes the ey (ej sound for German's, Scandanavians, Polish Speakers, etc.........) from the english word key
Maй would be prounced mI or like the German word Mai (meaning May).

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## Rosa Anna

Thanks mp510.  ::

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## scotcher

> To say the *r* in *r*at, *r*eally, *wr*ong, firstly the mouth starts CLOSED, as does M. 
> .

 Don't talk shite boy! There is no way any _R_ sound in the history of the universe ever started with the lips together as it does with _M_!

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## Remyisme

that's true.   ::

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by TATY  
> To say the *r* in *r*at, *r*eally, *wr*ong, firstly the mouth starts CLOSED, as does M. 
> .   Don't talk @@@@ boy! There is no way any _R_ sound in the history of the universe ever started with the lips together as it does with _M_!

 I dont know what I was saying.

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## TATY

> й is not a vowel. й is not a consoanant. й is called a semi-vowel.  I believe that the reason behind that is that it can only be used in conjunction with another vowel. 
> Tй would not be pronounced tie because й could NEVER come after ANY consonant. 
> TOй woulod be pronounced toy. 
> ий makes the ey (ej sound for German's, Scandanavians, Polish Speakers, etc.........) from the english word key
> Maй would be prounced mI or like the German word Mai (meaning May).

 Й /j/ is a consonant, but can be called a semi-vowel. But it is a consonant, as featured on the International Phonetics Alphabet list of consonants: . The other consonant which may be called a semi-vowel is English w (/w/) which is the same as Belarussian Ў.

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## Rosa Anna

ta ta ta taty? I don't hear anyone but you saying й is a consanant.  ::   
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD????

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## TriggerHappyJack

You guys are WAY too into this.  ::

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## Darobat

> ta ta ta taty? I don't hear anyone but you saying й is a consanant.   
> ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD????

 [j] is a consonant and a semi vowels.  All semi-vowels are consonants.  It's juse like saying [b] is a plosive, not a consonant.

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## Rosa Anna

> Originally Posted by Rosa Anna  ta ta ta taty? I don't hear anyone but you saying й is a consanant.   
> ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD????   [j] is a consonant and a semi vowels.  All semi-vowels are consonants.  It's juse like saying [b] is a plosive, not a consonant.

 j is a consanant..... so. 
I want a russian to tell me й is j.  
thanks though darobat.

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## Friendy

> j is a consanant..... so. 
> I want a russian to tell me й is j.

 That's true. й[j] is consonant. Look here for example (the second paragraph from the bottom) http://www.philol.msu.ru/rus/galya-1/kons/n-4.htm

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## Rosa Anna

> Originally Posted by Rosa Anna  j is a consanant..... so. 
> I want a russian to tell me й is j.   That's true. й[j] is consonant. Look here for example (the second paragraph from the bottom) http://www.philol.msu.ru/rus/galya-1/kons/n-4.htm

 I don't need to look. Friendy said it-therefore it is true.   ::   
Finally! 
(I still don't agree with (j) as a transliteration. Confusing to Am-Eng speakers. J is a G sound almost always. 
Y is more correct, but
that й=й is much better.

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## Friendy

> (I still don't agree with (j) as a transliteration. Confusing to Am-Eng speakers. J is a G sound almost always.

 [j] is a symbol of the international phonetic alphabet here, of course it shouldn't be used when one is transliterating a text for an english speaker to understand it, but when we are dealing specifically with phonetics I think it's more preferable.

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## Rtyom

In accord with the book by Д.И. Ермолович "Имена собственные на стыке языков и культур", й is rendered as y. The combination ий is rendered as y, excepting Yuri. Vowel + й is rendered as i like in Baikal or Gaidar. 
Moreover, there is some more ways of rendering irrespective of language rules and of any language as well. They are used for specific purposes only like in telecommunications or technical documentation. Here you can find j or jj.

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## mp510

> Originally Posted by TATY  
> To say the *r* in *r*at, *r*eally, *wr*ong, firstly the mouth starts CLOSED, as does M. 
> .   Don't talk @@@@ boy! There is no way any _R_ sound in the history of the universe ever started with the lips together as it does with _M_!

 It is doable. In Englsih, especially when i am trying to talk slow for "perfect" pronunciation, I seem to start with my lips closed similar to with m when saying r. When it is is done intentionally, and one is paying attention, it is almost like saying mat instaed of rat. Never noticred that before.

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## chaika

mp510, saying /r/ with your lips together is, what - I cant imagine what you are saying.  
Of course, if you are saying a Russian word like /mraz/ then you have started with lips together for the /m/ but then /raz/ is something else again.  
To say /r/ you might put your lips in the position of Russian /u/ for ex. утро, but not lips touching. If you are doing that, you sound out-of-this-worldly. Say /run/ is it mrun? JK, but watch what you say!

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## TATY

In most European languages, J has the same sound as English Y. 
When you see letters given in [ ] or / / it is referring usually to the International Phonetics Alphabet symbol.  
J does not have a G sound in English. 
G sometimes sounds like J as in George. 
English J consists of two sounds d + s [mea*s*ure] 
But back to the point. Someone said й is not a consonant, or a vowel, it is a semi-vowel. That is wrong because semi-vowels are consonants. 
And when you say only I say that Rosa, you are wrong. It is just me and all the major phonetics organisations in the world.

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## Rosa Anna

> In most European languages, J has the same sound as English Y. 
> When you see letters given in [ ] or / / it is referring usually to the International Phonetics Alphabet symbol.  
> J does not have a G sound in English. 
> G sometimes sounds like J as in George. 
> English J consists of two sounds d + s [mea*s*ure] 
> But back to the point. Someone said й is not a consonant, or a vowel, it is a semi-vowel. That is wrong because semi-vowels are consonants. 
> And when you say only I say that Rosa, you are wrong. It is just me and all the major phonetics organisations in the world.

   ::    ::       ::  
somebody please give this one a poptart.

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## Rosa Anna

TATY- 
This is not a pissen contest. 
I'd have to read the entire thread to find your origional arguement against the data on this site-- and I'm just not going to do that for YOU on behalf of those you argue against. 
Quit practicing your arguement on me--and take it somewhere else. 
I've recieved some EXCELLENT and VALID information from very kind and educated people on this site. To which I am most grateful. 
But no offense,  
The way you write, you don't come across as believable--even if your data may be. 
So when I ignore commentary from you-- 
Maybe you will grasp- 
Why.

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## DDT

й -  is counted as a consonant!  There now I've said it.

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