# Forum Learning Russian Language Resources for Studying Russian Russian Names  Transliterating english names?

## sun_rat

Is it common to just transliterate one's english name into russian? Or should one look for a reasonable facsimile if possible? 
One of my russian friends seems to have a little issue with direct transliteration of my name. It is masculine in Russian, but obviously I am not a man...   ::  
Of course the solution was simple enough in the case of my name, but I wondered what the general practice is?

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## it-ogo

Usually foreign names are trancribed, not transliterated. It means that Cyrillic equivalent of foreign name should reproduce original pronunciation rather then original spelling. Now more or less common English names have historically accepted ways of translation. Sometimes even more then one way per name.  ::  For example, Evelyn usually translated as Ивлин (masculine)  and Эвелин (feminine).  
Replacement of the original name by the equivalent Russian name is considered inacceptable nowadays.

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## Funanori

what do you mean unacceptable?

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## Оля

> what do you mean unacceptable?

 That means we won't call John _Иван_. We will call him _Джон_ and we will write his name like that, not _Иван_.

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## alexone

> Is it common to just transliterate one's english name into russian? Or should one look for a reasonable facsimile if possible? 
> One of my russian friends seems to have a little issue with direct transliteration of my name. It is masculine in Russian, but obviously I am not a man...   
> Of course the solution was simple enough in the case of my name, but I wondered what the general practice is?

 I'm just wondering what a name being transliterated in Russian would be a masculine  :: 
By the way in the last time in Russian it has a tendency not to transliterate foreign names at all. For instance, in many of scientific articles which I met all names stays written with Latin letters, names of musical bands and performers usually keep of its original spelling as well. Also, names of artists and movie titles often get written now in both Cyrillic and English (or another languige).

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## sun_rat

> Originally Posted by sun_rat  Is it common to just transliterate one's english name into russian? Or should one look for a reasonable facsimile if possible? 
> One of my russian friends seems to have a little issue with direct transliteration of my name. It is masculine in Russian, but obviously I am not a man...   
> Of course the solution was simple enough in the case of my name, but I wondered what the general practice is?   I'm just wondering what a name being transliterated in Russian would be a masculine 
> By the way in the last time in Russian it has a tendency not to transliterate foreign names at all. For instance, in many of scientific articles which I met all names stays written with Latin letters, names of musical bands and performers usually keep of its original spelling as well. Also, names of artists and movie titles often get written now in both Cyrillic and English (or another languige).

 a woman's name that is masculine? Jean, Джин.

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## Funanori

> Originally Posted by Tamerlane  what do you mean unacceptable?   That means we won't call John _Иван_. We will call him _Джон_ and we will write his name like that, not _Иван_.

 well that is a little stupid- no offence, since alot of russian names have a clear and definitive translation to english counterparts such as 
Mikhail-Michael
Kiril-Carl
Sergey-Sergio (italian)
Nikolai-Nicholas
Stepan-Stephen
Katya(diminutive of ?)=Catherine
Andrei-Andrew 
and there are more of course. but anways, yes i understand some names have only rough translations- and therefore kept as the original, but if an american is named michael, why not call him mikhail?

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## Wowik

> Kiril-Carl

   ::  
Это что, мы карловкой пишем?
Kiril (Кирил) — Cyrillus or Cyril or Cyryl   ::    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril 
And 
Karl (Карл) — Carl

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## gRomoZeka

> well that is a little stupid- no offence, since alot of russian names have a clear and definitive translation to english counterparts such as
> Mikhail-Michael
> Kiril-Carl
> [...]

 Some ancient and "international" names have rough (or even exact) equivalents in different countries, simply because they had time to spread all over tthe world and were changing according to the phonetics of different languages, but THESE ARE NOT TRANSLATIONS. 
Seriously... Take more care with the words you're using. 
And FYI, Mikhail is* translated* as "godlike", Kirill as "Master", etc.  

> but if an american is named michael, why not call him mikhail?

 Because it sounds comical.

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## Funanori

i dont think its comical.

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## Оля

> i dont think its comical.

 It is. 
How could you judge if something sounds comical in a language or not when you are not a native?

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## Crocodile

> Mikhail is* translated* as "godlike" ...

 Whoa.. "mi-cha-il" = "who [could ever be] compared to God?" 
Perhaps, Achilles might have been called "godlike", but nothing like that could ever had happen in the Bible...   ::

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## Funanori

> Originally Posted by Tamerlane  i dont think its comical.   It is. 
> How could you judge if something sounds comical in a language or not when you are not a native?

 
because i have been around alot of people who belong to cultures that differ from my own, and no matter where they are from, they give me a name which is a translation of my name into their language as a sign of affection. in america we do it too- i once knew a dagestani boy named Kenaan in highschool, but all the americans called him by his american name- Ken. even though that isnt his real name, we steal translated to a close sounding name of American origin. my name (yes the one i was born with) IS russian so i cant really say that russians do the same for me, lol. but even chinese people have translated my name so that it sounds chinese! and that language is COMPLETELY different. there is nothing comical about it, to translates someones name into a name more familiar sounding for your respective culture is a sign of affection- not of mockery.

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## Rtyom

Tamerlane, don’t be so naïve. Do you really think that we could name George Bush as Georgy Kustov just because it can be translated? I would rather advise you to read some articles on translation of proper names to resolve your doubts. 
What you call translation is not translation at all. People living much time in a foreign country are likely to get their names adapted to the native speakers’ ears, especially if the names sound odd and unusual, and people can’t pronounce them properly. Of course, there are countries like Ukraine that tend to give their own equivalents to the personal names, but this is not common practice. Naming a person is its direct indentification, and if you call him or her another name, you tend to split it into two different persons.

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## sun_rat

i sincerely didn't mean to start a big argument.    ::

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## Funanori

> i sincerely didn't mean to start a big argument.

 dont worry about it, this is what forums are for.

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## Funanori

> Tamerlane, don’t be so naïve. Do you really think that we could name George Bush as Georgy Kustov just because it can be translated? I would rather advise you to read some articles on translation of proper names to resolve your doubts. 
> What you call translation is not translation at all. People living much time in a foreign country are likely to get their names adapted to the native speakers’ ears, especially if the names sound odd and unusual, and people can’t pronounce them properly. Of course, there are countries like Ukraine that tend to give their own equivalents to the personal names, but this is not common practice. Naming a person is its direct indentification, and if you call him or her another name, you tend to split it into two different persons.

 if a guy named george were in some student exchange program living in russia or ukraine with a local family, there is not a doubt in my mind that at least the mother of the household would affectionately call him by the russian "georgi". and it happens EVERYWHERE, when i was staying in peru to learn spanish, i was with a fellow american friend of mine named reginald- (We called him reggie in america) but over in peru, everyone, the locals, the family taking care of us, etc. called him by his spanish equivalent name- REYNALDO. and i am not sure where you get "kustov" from. and splitting people in half? dont be ridiculus, everyone acts a different way for every person they know, you act different with your mother than you do with a friend of yours, we are splitting OURSELVES not in half but in hundreds all the time! for every different person- we put on a different mask! if you think you know a person, think again, you only know the side of that person that they are willing to show you, and you can see another side of that person when they interact with OTHER people! when people name a person in a different language, it means that the person from the local culture has accepted the foreigner into their heart- and endears them with affection by giving them a local name. its like, come here, your one of us! (so they give them a name like one of them!)

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## Crocodile

> i sincerely didn't mean to start a big argument.

 Don't worry, we do it all the time. And we like it.   ::

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## Оля

> if a guy named george were in some student exchange program living in russia or ukraine with a local family, there is not a doubt in my mind that at least the mother of the household would affectionately call him by the russian "georgi".

 Never.   

> and it happens EVERYWHERE

 Well, Peru is not EVERYWHERE... 
And then again, if the names sound similar, maybe it could happen sometimes in Russia, too. But "the mother of the household" would NEVER "affectionately" call John by "Иван".
Tamerlane, try to understand that things in the world do not always go like you think they should do. Cultures of different countries is not something "easy".

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## gRomoZeka

If someone called me not by my name, but by some English equivalent (or even _incorrect_ equivalent), my first thought would be that this person doesn't care to remember my real name (and it's slightly offensive, really), or doesn't bother to pronounce it (which is not endearing all the same). I wouldn't think that this is "a sign of affection". And I imagine Kyrill wouldn't appreciate it if someone called him _Carl_.   ::   
When we are talking about close friends the things may be different, but even then this substitute name is regarded as a nickname, and it isn't used by _everyone_, only by those friends. It's just an inner joke, so to speak.

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## sun_rat

Speaking *only* for myself, it does not bother me that people in another country might prefer to call me Джина, instead of Джин. It doesn't bother me to make adjustments like this to more easily fit into another culture's standards.

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## gRomoZeka

> Speaking *only* for myself, it does not bother me that people in another country might prefer to call me Джина, instead of Джин. It doesn't bother me to make adjustments like this to more easily fit into another culture's standards.

 Sorry, but it is not the best example. Джин and Джина are practically the same, and it is your name after all (I don't care if anybody calls me Maria instead of Mariya either). It's just a slight modification of pronunciation to make it easier (and more familiar) for non-Russian speakers. But these people generally don't try to invent a russified name for you and don't call you Женя, or Гена or something.

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## Оля

I think the main point here is a tradition. Yes, such an insignificant thing... 
The 'problem' is that our Russian names are too very Russian maybe, but when we hear such names as Михаил, Саша, Георгий, Геннадий, and so on, we have a strong association that the owner of this name is Russian, and only Russian. We never not only translate, but even never adopt foreign names so that they sound Russian and 'comfortable' for us. Actually, pronouncing Джим, Джек, Франсуа, Билл, Карл, whatever is not hard for Russians at all. If a guy's name is George, he is Джордж. Never Георгий or Жора. NEVER. It would sound very strange and comical, indeed. A foreigner always _should_ have a name which would sound foreign. Otherwise he's a Russian.
So there is a tradition here, you see?...

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## sun_rat

> Originally Posted by sun_rat  Speaking *only* for myself, it does not bother me that people in another country might prefer to call me Джина, instead of Джин. It doesn't bother me to make adjustments like this to more easily fit into another culture's standards.   Sorry, but it is not the best example. Джин and Джина are practically the same, and it is your name after all (I don't care if anybody calls me Maria instead of Mariya either). It's just a slight modification of pronunciation to make it easier (and more familiar) for non-Russian speakers. But these people generally don't try to invent a russified name for you and don't call you Женя, or Гена or something.

 actually, since i am the original poster, and i was asking concerning how russians view foreign names based on MY experience with russians who i know personally, MY experience is the example one would use.   ::  
and while gina and jean seem similar enough to you based on the phonetics, they are very dissimilar because they do not have the same etymological origins...

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## gRomoZeka

> and while gina and jean seem similar enough to you based on the phonetics, they are very dissimilar because they do not have the same etymological origins...

 Aha!  ::  I see now.
But still it's not Russian (I mean they don't try to call you by a Russian equivalent of your name). And that's the point. People tend not to call Michael Mikhail (for example), because it seems weird for _most_ Russians (  ::  ) A request to do so may also seem weird.

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## Funanori

no- you see, thats not true, certain things are pan cultural and are unrestricted by boundaries of nationality. i dont see how its offensive at all to translate someones name, my name is not particularly russian- Daniel, but russians call me Danya or Danichka as a form of affection. here in america- we give immigrants american names ALL the time, like i said about the dagestani boy named Kenaan- we called him Ken which is an american name. in peru my friend reggie was called reynaldo, in china- my own name has been modified to a phoenetic equivalent. so you see these things are not restricted specific cultures, its pan cultural and not insulting at all if someone from another culture decided to give you a local name equivalent of your original birth name. in fact, the way i see it, its imperialistic and obnoxious to insist your original name when in a foreign country. sometimes its impossible as there is no equivalent, in which case the original name should be used.

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## gRomoZeka

> no- you see, thats not true, certain things are pan cultural and are unrestricted by boundaries of nationality.

 And this certain thing is NOT pan cultural. Generalisations don't always work.
Your friends may call you whatever they want as a sign of affection or as a nickname, but if you start introducing yourself to strangers as Danya, you'll confuse them. 
And those people who change their names and even surnames when imigrating to different countries are trying to assimilate and to blend, and to be as "less" a foreigner as possible. I can't see what it has to do with a tourist. 
What Olya said is true. Whatever the reason, many Russians view Russian names almost as a sign of ethnicity: you have a Russian name, ergo you're Russian. Maybe it happened because Russian names are not so popular in the world, and in most cases you really have to be Russian (or to have Slav ancestors) to have it. Also you'd hardly ever meet Russian who's name is Tom, or Mike, or Jack (again, a name is a sign of ethnic identity), so there's a strong differentiation between "foreign" names and "Russian" names. 
Phew.. I'll stop arguing now,. You've made up your mind anyway, whatever we say.   ::

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## Funanori

why would i confuse them if russians already call me "Danya" you forget sirah- ethnically i am russian even if i am american born.

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## Оля

> why would i confuse them...

 Tamerlane, obviously you don't read what we write or don't understand anything of it. What you're asking now, has been explained several times already. If you think you understand Russian realities better than Russians - as you wish.

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## Wowik

I'll try to outline another aspect of deference between Russians and Americans concerning people names.  
My chief always introduced himself to foreign people as Misha.
I was wondered why he used diminutive (hypocoristic) even in formal atmosphere. And even in scientific articles. He explained this to me. Americans ALWAYS call everyone with the same name as it was introduced to them.
If William Jefferson Blythe III decided to introduce himself always as Bill Clinton nobody will call him William.  
If chief introduced himself as Misha everyone will call him as Misha.
Everyone but only not Russian  ::  
Russians change the name according to situation.
For example in official documents Миша is impossible. It should be Михаил only. And moreover Михаил Владимирович.
I never call him Misha because he was 20 years older than me. Михаил Владимирович only. 
After Leo Tolstoi's "War and Peace" woman name Natasha become very popular around the world. But it sounds very strange for Russians when Natasha is used as the only form of the name and CANNOT be converted to Natalya.
Moreover most of these Natashas not know and not understand name Natalya.

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## it-ogo

I did met several times in literature name Джин as female English name so no surprise to me. But I did not now its original spelling and I was surprised that it has the same English spelling as male French name Jean=Жан.  
I feel like there is much international confusion around this inter-language word transitions. Sometimes word written in latin alphabet is like a hieroglyph: one knows its meaning but the pronunciation can be different in the different languages. And if a word is loan how to know which pronunciation is correct?

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## Оля

> I feel like there is much international confusion around this inter-language word transitions. Sometimes word written in latin alphabet is like a hieroglyph: one knows its meaning but the pronunciation can be different in the different languages. And if a word is loan how to know which pronunciation is correct?

 That never happens in Russian: the English name George we write as *Джордж* (as it's pronounced in English), and the French name George we write *Жорж* (as it's pronounced in French). The English Daniel is *Дэниел*, the French Daniel is *Даниэль*. And so on.

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## sun_rat

> I did met several times in literature name Джин as female English name so no surprise to me. But I did not now its original spelling and I was surprised that it has the same English spelling as male French name Jean=Жан.  
> I feel like there is much international confusion around this inter-language word transitions. Sometimes word written in latin alphabet is like a hieroglyph: one knows its meaning but the pronunciation can be different in the different languages. And if a word is loan how to know which pronunciation is correct?

 we who speak english have the same confusion. 
for example: Gina comes from the name Regina, or Georgina and therefore is latin.
Jean comes from non-english Scotland, IIRC, by way of France. even with the different pronunciation.
another version of Jean comes from the greek Eugenia.  
the fact that english is a melting pot of several root languages makes for a very tangled mess for non-english speakers to try to sort out. good luck with that!

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## it-ogo

> That never happens in Russian: the English name George we write as *Джордж* (as it's pronounced in English), and the French name George we write *Жорж* (as it's pronounced in French).

 Yeah, we have different confusions. For example (about Georges), we write British king George as король Георг (as if it were different name than Джордж).  ::

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## Chelle

I apologize, I did not read everything in this thread.There were far too many directions taken. So, my question is simple: 
My name is Michelle - Who is like God.  Is going by a pet name of Mischa a negative thing, or acceptable? I know how to write my full name in Russian, but I  always like Mischa...I just don't want to be in poor taste. 
Thanks.

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## Оля

> I apologize, I did not read everything in this thread.There were far too many directions taken. So, my question is simple: 
> My name is Michelle - Who is like God.  Is going by a pet name of Mischa a negative thing, or acceptable? I know how to write my full name in Russian, but I  always like Mischa...I just don't want to be in poor taste. 
> Thanks.

 There's nothing bad about the name Mischa, even if you're an American, but want people to call you like that. But to be honest, your question is not quite clear to me. Do you mean you want to use this pet name when visiting Russia?..

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## it-ogo

> I apologize, I did not read everything in this thread.There were far too many directions taken. So, my question is simple: 
> My name is Michelle - Who is like God.  Is going by a pet name of Mischa a negative thing, or acceptable? I know how to write my full name in Russian, but I  always like Mischa...I just don't want to be in poor taste. 
> Thanks.

 AFAIK this name is originally French and is well known in Russian as Мишель. It is OK as it is. Of course you can recommend yourself as you like... But if you are a woman you should know that Misha (Миша) in Russian is a male only name.

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## Ramil

> I apologize, I did not read everything in this thread.There were far too many directions taken. So, my question is simple: 
> My name is Michelle - Who is like God.  Is going by a pet name of Mischa a negative thing, or acceptable? I know how to write my full name in Russian, but I  always like Mischa...I just don't want to be in poor taste. 
> Thanks.

 Despite everything you might have heard about it Mischa is a male name in Russia. I doubt there is a single female Mischa in Russia. It's a shortening from Michael (or Mikhail spelled in Russian manner). So your name is derived from Michael, but Russians don't call their daughters Mischa. It's ok, I suppose, but Микаэлла would suit you better in Russia. Not to mention that to my ear it sounds prettier.

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## Оля

If you're a female, Mischa is not good, of course. I think just Мишель would work perfectly. The name is not Russian, but very well-known and easy to pronounce. As for Микаэла, it sounds more foreign and "clumsy" to me  ::

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## Chelle

Thanks to all three of you.  I'm not the only one who thinks Misha is a girls name. In the Hannibal Lecter movies, most importantly, the Hannibal Rising movie,  about his childhood and what caused him to become the cannibal he is. It's set in Nazi time Ukraine and he has a baby sister named Misha. So this is where I got my reference to Misha being a female version of my name, in your language. To my ears, Misha sounds decidedly feminine, but then there are a LOT of people in my country  who name their daughters Sasha... and don't have a clue.

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## it-ogo

> Thanks to all three of you.  I'm not the only one who thinks Misha is a girls name. In the Hannibal Lecter movies, most importantly, the Hannibal Rising movie,  about his childhood and what caused him to become the cannibal he is. It's set in Nazi time Ukraine and he has a baby sister named Misha.

 Poor girl! Surely with such a name her fate was horrible. I don't even want to guess...  ::  Or maybe she was Masha, which is female and derived from Maria?   

> So this is where I got my reference to Misha being a female version of my name, in your language. To my ears, Misha sounds decidedly feminine, but then there are a LOT of people in my country  who name their daughters Sasha... and don't have a clue.

 Sasha (Саша) may be either male or female. It is derived from Aleksandr (male) or Aleksandra (female). There is one more absolutely male Russian name which became known in the West as female: Nikita.

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## Chelle

> Poor girl! Surely with such a name her fate was horrible. I don't even want to guess...  Or maybe she was Masha, which is female and derived from Maria?

  Nope, promise - even the credits listed her as Mischa. Definite  -ee-  sound for the i. She was eaten, but, yeah she had pneumonia and would have died anyway. Silly Hollywood, making a fool out of me in front of  the nice Russian people  XD   ::

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## Chelle

> Originally Posted by sun_rat  i sincerely didn't mean to start a big argument.   Don't worry, we do it all the time. And we like it.

 
This made me ROFL   ::   So very off topic, I know but I thought I'd read this thread and that made me giggle  so I felt like sharing.   ::

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