# Forum About Russia Society  Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?

## Hanna

This is to find out how native Russian speakers feel about people who speak Russian as a foreign language.   
In Europe there is a varying degree of "language snobbery" depending on where you are.. A quick run-down:  *England* is a very tolerant place -- people don't care if somebody has a foreign accent, or even if he makes lots of mistakes when he speaks.   *In Germany* I have noticed that the expectations of speaking good German are generally much higher. I don't think you could get a good job in Germany unless you could speak good German.    *In Sweden* too, people are not always sympathetic towards those who use bad grammar or have a strong foreign accent. However this does not apply to people from Northern Europe; Germans, British, Polish, Baltic - since the general view of these nationalities is positive.  
I have noticed that *French people in Paris* get irritated if you cannot express quickly and clearly what you want in French. They sometimes prefer not to speak English either. However I think they are quite tolerant with minor mistakes.   *Spain - they are super-nice* about bad language and are happy to help people who speak bad Spanish.    *But I don't know what the situation is in Russia, Ukraine etc!*
I am curious of course, since I am studying Russian. Are people going to laugh at me or ignore me? 
--How often do you meet foreigners who do not speak good Russian?
--Is the situation different in countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan?
--Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?
--Do you think that the situation with Russian-as-a-foreign-language has changed since the Soviet era? If so, how?  
--What would you think if you worked with someone who was not Russian and made lots of mistakes when he spoke and wrote in Russian?
--Can Baltic people usually speak good Russian or not? I have noticed that they always mention "native fluency in Russian" on their CV/Resume.
--What about the Central Asian people who work in Russia - what are their Russian skills generally like? 
--What about Westerners - how often do you meet somebody who can actually speak Russian well? 
--Are there any nationalities (not ex Soviet) who always impress you with their skills in Russian? 
--What foreign accents sound good/bad/cool....? 
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Random funny person speaking Russian*: A female medical student from Asia..
What would you think of her efforts? She has spent five years in Russia.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AEUfE7YIsU  *Funny clip about Russian lessons for Russians...* (it's so hard that not even natives can speak it!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nwovxKeMbY

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## SPZenA

> --Is the situation different in countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan?

 I live in Kazakhstan, and my physical culture teacher isn't native russian speaker. His native language - kazakh, and when he has mistakes, my schoolmates laugh at him. I don't think, what in Kazakhstan have a tolerant native russian speakers. But... I'm tolerant speaker. Just i know, what is "foreigh language"...

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## Hanna

Thanks Spzena! _Kazakhstan is such a cool country! It has always fascinated me, as far back as childhood, before it became independent. I am going to start a topic and ask some "stupid questions" about it later...
But my impression is that everybody there can speak Russian._

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## SPZenA

> But my impression is that everybody there can speak Russian. [/i]

 In the centre of Kazakhstan are villages, where families don't want speak russian, because they are Kazakh.When i've been in the Hospital, there have one girl. I say: "Как тебя зовут?", but she don't understand me... I was very surprised, because i've think the same as you...

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## Ramil

> --How often do you meet foreigners who do not speak good Russian?

 Quite often really. We have many immigrants from Middle Asia and Caucasus here and they seldom speak good Russian.   

> --Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?

 Yes, but that's a rare occasion.   

> --Do you think that the situation with Russian-as-a-foreign-language has changed since the Soviet era? If so, how?

 That depends on the point of view. If we consider all the former Ex-USSR republic as 'foreign' countries then yes, the situation has deteriorated rather dramatically, but if we only count the countries that were 'foreign' some 20 years ago then I think that the situation is the same.   

> --What would you think if you worked with someone who was not Russian and made lots of mistakes when he spoke and wrote in Russian?

 I work in such a company. It belongs to two Armenians and many people there are Armenians. I got used to it and now I hardly pay attention to their mistakes.    

> --Can Baltic people usually speak good Russian or not? I have noticed that they always mention "native fluency in Russian" on their CV/Resume.

 Those who are older than 30 years old are probably quite fluent with Russian but with the young people the situation is not so universal.    

> --What about the Central Asian people who work in Russia - what are their Russian skills generally like?

 Generally: from ok to worse to afwul. There are people who speak perfect Russian but again - nearly all of them are of middle age or older and they have learnt the language in the Soviet era.   

> --What about Westerners - how often do you meet somebody who can actually speak Russian well?

 I met a few Westerners who spoke good-to-perfect Russian but I think I can count them by my fingers on a single hand. Those who speak average Russian are more numerous but still there aren't very many of them. Sometimes I meed a man who thinks that he can speak Russian but I don't understand them for some reason  ::    

> --Are there any nationalities (not ex Soviet) who always impress you with their skills in Russian?

 I think not. I haven't noticed that one nationality differs from another in this respect.   

> --What foreign accents sound good/bad/cool....?

 Caucasian accent is so common that it became a part of anecdotes. and the accent of the Jews from Odessa is absolutely remarkable, also the accent of people from Baltic states sounds very funny to me.

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## Оля

> --How often do you meet foreigners who do not speak good Russian?

 I think I hardly ever met a foreigner in my life, (if we don't speak about ex-USSR citizens), and note that I'm living in Moscow.
Well, seriously, I met some, but very few times, and communication never was long.   

> --Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?

 Of course. There some I just know (that is saw them on TV and so on) and I also had a classmate (at the institute), she was Polish, and spoke very good Russian (having been living in Russia for some months only).   

> --What would you think if you worked with someone who was not Russian and made lots of mistakes when he spoke and wrote in Russian?

 I would try to find out if (s)he wants me to correct his/her mistakes and if yes, I'd do it from time to time with explanations. If no, I think I'd consider that person as lazy and/ disrespectful to my language.
Then again, it depends where that person is from. If from US or Europe, or some other distant country, well, in short, if (s)he has recently started to learn Russian, then see my answer above.
But if the person is from ex-USSR - you know, they all know Russian more or less, and they know better than me how to improve it if they want. But actually many people from ex-USSR countries never _decided_ to learn Russian, they just heard it from their childhood and their Russian is enough for them "as it is". It would be even impolite, I think, to try to correct/improve their Russian.   

> --What about the Central Asian people who work in Russia - what are their Russian skills generally like?

 It depends. Some speak more or less good Russian, some quite bad, and some (who never knew Russian and has only recently arrived in Russia) speak very poorly. They all, however, have an accent which sometimes prevents to understand even those whose grammar and vocabulary is okay.
Oh, and by the way, I live in a brand new block of flats now; the house was build by Uzbek workers, and on every floor you can find an ad about repair works on the walls. My God, how awful they write in Russian!!!   ::  I think they only learn Russian 'aurally', through their aural perception, and in most cases they only approximately know how a word should sound. And actually, that's the way natives learn a language  ::  
Just an example of those ads: _Рермонт квартиру
Ремонт кирартиру_   

> --What about Westerners - how often do you meet somebody who can actually speak Russian well?

 Actually, Johanna, you don't often (if ever) meet a Westerner in Russia if you don't work with them.   

> --Are there any nationalities (not ex Soviet) who always impress you with their skills in Russian?

 I think... the French.    

> --What foreign accents sound good/bad/cool....?

 I don't think any foreign accent sounds good or cool in Russian, especially together with grammatical mistakes (which always go with a foreigner's speech, alas...).
Asian accents often sound just incomprehensible. A very 'American' accent may sound totally incomprehensible, too.   

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Random funny person speaking Russian*: A female medical student from Asia..
> What would you think of her efforts? She has spent five years in Russia.

 If I didn't know that she has spent five years in Russia, I'd say that she speaks very good. But five years.... I think she could speak better  ::

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## it-ogo

> *But I don't know what the situation is in Russia, Ukraine etc!*
> I am curious of course, since I am studying Russians. Are people going to laugh at me or ignore me?

 It is difficult to compare because the viewpoint of a native speaker is different from the viewpoint of a foreigner. You need an impression of some foreigners who lived in Russia etc. And I think that situation may be very different in Moscow where are many foreigners and, say, not-so-big town like mine. 
Generally if you travel yourself you will have more problems with infrastructure than with language snobism. ExUSSR is still a very bad place for the tourists.   

> Are people going to laugh at me or ignore me?

 In a town like mine far foreigners (not xUSSR) are still very exotic. So you can expect much friendly attention especially if you show at least some knowledge of the language. At least few words.  ::  Maybe people will laugh sometimes but it will hardly be abusive.  And Sweden is accepted positively. On the other hand you always risk to pay for the same service more than native speakers because the price is often a subject of negotiations and Western Europeans are considered to be rich.    

> --How often do you meet foreigners who do not speak good Russian?

 There are some Azerbaijan people in the market. They usually speak acceptable Russian though with heavy accent.
There were a series of Chinese students in our college. They tried to keep together and their Russian even after several years was awful (if was at all). I don't know how did they learn.   

> --Is the situation different in countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan?

 I think Ukraine is more tolerant then Russia to strangers (no matter of language). But my experience is limited.   

> --Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?

 I know one Chinese with perfect Russian. But he spent here about half of his life (20-30 years).   

> --What would you think if you worked with someone who was not Russian and made lots of mistakes when he spoke and wrote in Russian?

 Of course I would not be happy if it hinder the work. But if not then no problem. I'd be much more unhappy to work with native speaker with vulgar speech.   

> --Can Baltic people usually speak good Russian or not? I have noticed that they always mention "native fluency in Russian" on their CV/Resume.

 Sometimes yes, sometimes no.   

> --Are there any nationalities (not ex Soviet) who always impress you with their skills in Russian?

 Well, theoretically Slavs have much less problems in learning Russian but I have no good statistics personally. Two Poles I met in train spoke quite good.   

> --What foreign accents sound good/bad/cool....?

 I like Polish accent, it sounds aristocratic. 
There was a humoristic dubbing of the movie "Lord of the rings". Elves there were dubbed with Baltic accent and dwarves with Caucasian one. It was in a very good correspondence with our impression of these accents.   

> *Random funny person speaking Russian*: A female medical student from Asia..
> What would you think of her efforts? She has spent five years in Russia.

 Not so good for five years. I'd not like to have her as a medic, it would be too problematic to communicate.

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## vox05

> Not so good for five years. I'd not like to have her as a medic, it would be too problematic to communicate.

 I dare to suppose that their lessons are heavily shifted toward russian medical vocabulary rather than common 'every day' vocabulary and advanced grammar.

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## Hanna

*SPZenA*, I am just curious; are you able to speak Kazakh? Is it a difficult language? 
(Some English corrections, hope it is helpful!   ::  )   

> I live in Kazakhstan, and my physical [s:5umomegc]culture[/s:5umomegc] education (=PE) teacher isn't *a* native *R*ussian speaker. His native language *is* *K*azakh, and when he [s:5umomegc]has[/s:5umomegc] *makes* mistakes, my [s:5umomegc]school[/s:5umomegc] *class*mates laugh at him. I don't think[s:5umomegc], what in[/s:5umomegc] that Kazakhstan has very tolerant native *R*ussian speakers. But... I'm *a* tolerant speaker. (??)[s:5umomegc]Just i know, what is "foreigh language[/s:5umomegc]"...

   ::  This text was good - you only made a few minor mistakes. Nothing important. But I could not understand the last sentence. 
If you read more in English you will get better at understanding when to use "a" and "the".  _Haha, I should have written this text in Russian!!  You would be laughing your head off right now at all my mistakes...._

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## Hanna

Wow such interesting responses.  
The comment about the voices that were used for the characters in Lord of the Rings was interesting.   _In Scandinavian films "mysterious strangers" often have a Russian accent... For example in films about old times, people with magical powers sound like they are Russian. Also mysterious people whose intentions are unclear (I.e. is the person really good or really bad...?)_ 
I did not know that foreigners were so rare in Russia! 
I know an American who worked in Moscow for a while. (But he didn't like it and moved to London..) He couldn't speak any Russian at all.  
Lots of Swedish and Finnish people travel to St Petersburg (in particular, but also to Moscow). There is not as much business as there OUGHT TO be between the countries, but still, quite a bit.   _(Wait until they hook up the Trans-sib with South Korea and extend it to the Atlantic ports in Norway... Apparently this is planned...)_  
If Scandinavians speak Russian, they get mistaken for Baltic people... If they don't speak Russian they feel very stupid and immediately get interested in learning it.  Most Scandis can say a few silly phrases and words in Russian,  but absolutely not have a conversation...   _Olya, if / when I visit Moscow I definitely want to see you, if you want - then you will have met a "real" foreigner, albeit perhaps not a very "exotic" one...!    Hopefully during 2010, although not in the spring... _

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## capecoddah

Come one! Come all!  ::  
Meet the not very exotic but very real foreigner Johanna!  ::  
Sorry...

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## Hanna

> Sorry...
> I'm easily amused late at night...

 Yes you are...  ::   ::   
Well maybe that didn't come out quite right but my point was that Sweden (Scandinavia) isn't exactly an exotic place, at least not from a Russian perspective. In fact, a lot of things are very similar.
To me, Russia is cool because it's so similar, yet so different.

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## SPZenA

> (Some English corrections, hope it is helpful!   )

 Thank you   ::     

> But I could not understand the last sentence.

 Hm. Я хочу сказать, что я толерантна потому, как знаю, что такое - учить иностранный язык.   

> SPZenA, I am just curious; are you able to speak Kazakh? Is it a difficult language?

 For me Kazakh is very difficult    ::   I've learn Kazakh since 9 years, and i can say only "Сенің атым кім?", it mean "What is your name?"

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## Оля

> _In Scandinavian films "mysterious strangers" often have a Russian accent... For example in films about old times, people with magical powers sound like they are Russian. Also mysterious people whose intentions are unclear (I.e. is the person really good or really bad...?)_

 It's interesting and strange how much important accents are in foreign languages. In our films, only a foreigner character can speak with an accent. If a film is a tale, a mystic story about people with magical powers, or a film about old times - you never hear any accent there, and it even would be weird to hear it.
Well, as said, an accent in Russian never sounds good, or, at least, it never sounds _natural_, and in most cases it would be just inappropriate and only would distract your attention from what is being said.   

> Olya, if / when I visit Moscow I definitely want to see you, if you want - then you will have met a "real" foreigner, albeit perhaps not a very "exotic" one...!

 Johanna, the fact is that any foreigner not from ex-USSR (mmm... and not from Asia, I think) is exotic here.
But please don't understand me as I have never seen foreigners, say, in the streets. It happens quite often. I just mean that a regular Russian hardly _communicates_ with foreigners in his everyday life.   

> (??)[s:1rqwiawi]Just i know, what is "foreigh language[/s:1rqwiawi]"...
> 			
> 		  This text was good - you only made a few minor mistakes. Nothing important. But I could not understand the last sentence.

 SPZenA meant, "_I just know what a foreigh language is_".

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## Иван из космоса

> *Funny clip about Russian lessons for Russians...* (it's so hard that not even natives can speak it!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nwovxKeMbY

 Dear Lord, this is absolutely terrifying.

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## SouthsideRMK

i wonder if when i'm speaking russian it will be easy to tell that i'm american. I don't know if i have an accent and if it is horrible. I think that accents in English are very cool. My favorite is an Irish accent or Australian. Sometimes i can't even asian accents. Anyway, Merry Christmas Everyone!

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## Ramil

> i wonder if when i'm speaking russian it will be easy to tell that i'm american. I don't know if i have an accent and if it is horrible. I think that accents in English are very cool. My favorite is an Irish accent or Australian. Sometimes i can't even asian accents. Anyway, Merry Christmas Everyone!

 You can record something and host the recording somewhere so we could tell.

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## JohnSmith

I would say the fluent/native Russian speakers on this board are snobs. They don't want to help someone learn.   ::

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## Lampada

> I would say the fluent/native Russian speakers on this board are snobs. They don't want to help someone learn.

 Oh, this is funny!  We are snobs  because we did not wanted to make an audio for you to be able to say in Russian "Your ass is really gorgeous and I want to lick you all over".  
Give us a break, will you?

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## SouthsideRMK

hahhaha! "Your ass is really gorgeous and I want to lick you all over" who would want to translate that!?

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## JohnSmith

> Originally Posted by JohnSmith  I would say the fluent/native Russian speakers on this board are snobs. They don't want to help someone learn.     Oh, this is funny!  We are snobs  because we did not wanted to make an audio for you to be able to say in Russian "Your ass is really gorgeous and I want to lick you all over".  
> Give us a break, will you?

 Wow, if you read it and did not provide audio, you really are a snob. No will not "give you a break." The forum is not a place for your opinion on the value added quality of a given phrase, simply to speak it audibly. 
Don't blame for your non existent sex life. "Lampada"...what a name. Hahaha, oh brother.     ::

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## gRomoZeka

> Originally Posted by Johanna  *Funny clip about Russian lessons for Russians...* (it's so hard that not even natives can speak it!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nwovxKeMbY   Dear Lord, this is absolutely terrifying.

 Wow. There ARE a lot of pitfalls in Russian (as in any other language), but these lessons look more like extra-help for failed students. There's nothing especially complex about examples which we can see on the board, kids study this at school when they are 10-14 years old.  ::   
Sadly, due to decreasing quality of education and other factors many native speakers  can't spell correctly even to save their lifes. They are butchering Russian language, and they are spreading like a plague. As a result there are more 'language snobs' in Russia and CIS than ever. Most of them are members of this forum. Be warned. ))))
On the other hand Russians are usually much less snobish about mistakes made by RSL learners. There are too few foreigners willing to study Russian to scare them away.  ::  So you can expect to be encouraged, not berated.    

> Wow, if you read it and did not provide audio, you really are a snob.

 Hey, do you know what "snob" is?

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## Оля

> The forum is not a place for your opinion on the value added quality of a given phrase, simply to speak it audibly.

 The forum is for our, natives' opinions about phrases and our wish or unwillingness to 'speak audibly' or not to do that with a phrase. We are not at work here and are not your subordinates so that you could tell us what we must do.

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## Hanna

The fact that this guy sits and resarches such phrases on Christmas Day, really says it all... If he wants to know how to say this properly, let him learn Russian from scratch!  ::  
Also, I can't imagine it will get any woman, Russian or not, interested in a stranger unless she was paid for it... In which case she's not going to care about your pronounciation anyway. 
The native speakers on this forum are fantastically helpful and definitely not arrogant in their view of learners. It is your own request that is arrogant and snobbish! 
What makes you assume that Russian speaking women would like to hear this phrase from you? I suggest you start learning basic everyday phrases instead.

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## gRomoZeka

> *Random funny person speaking Russian*: A female medical student from Asia..
> What would you think of her efforts? She has spent five years in Russia.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AEUfE7YIsU

 Thanks, *Johanna*, I really enjoyed this video. This girl is very good. There are minor grammar mistakes (even after 5 years in Russia), but they don't muddle the meaning. Her accent is not strong (it sounds pleasant, in fact), and some words sound almost like they are pronounced by a native speaker. What I liked the most is that despite all the shortcomings her speech feels_ natural_, and not forced.

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## Hanna

Yeah, actually she has another video too.  
I thought she was an interesting case because she explains in her comments that she travelled to Russia to study medicine in Russian without knowing any more Russian than basic greetings!  
Frankly this seems very bold! But the gamble paid off, because five years later she's close to graduation. Personally I had terrible trouble reading Economics litterature in English at university - and that was after years and years of school English and exposure via TV.  
If she joined a regular Russian medical school together with native speakers and managed to keep up, then it's really an outstanding accomplishment.

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## gRomoZeka

> Yeah, actually she has another video too.

 Yeah, I watched all her videos. )
Also while looking for examples of English accent I stumbled upon a video from an Italian guy, who studied Russian for 3 years. His pronunciation is nearly PERFECT, and his Russian is great.  ::   I think any RSL learner needs to see this motivating video!   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeAzNE0RqX4 
But I must admit that all Italians I've heard spoke Russian clearly, even if they knew only a few words. It's probably because our languages are rather close phonetically. I've heard the same thing about Venezuelan people.

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## Hanna

Interesting!
I understood about 80-90% of what he's saying but I could not speak that fast without making mistakes, unless i had prepared the speech beforehand. 
When I feel bold enough (and am able to speak comprehensively ) I will upload a video for you to "judge".   
What he is saying is definitely based on the standard textbook Russian. He's not using any of the "backwards" sounding phrases and expressions that are confusing to people who are not from a Slavic speaking country. I.e. sentences that seem like they start from the end... Also he is not using any colloquial speech or any of the "confusing" expressions that don't make sense in literal translation.... So he is making it rather easy for himself.  
I have studied since May now, on and off... In three years time I think I will be able to match his standard, and with a passable pronounciation too. 
To me, the bending of the verbs and all the different bending of nouns are the biggest challenges.  
Interesting to hear your view that Italians are able to sound good with they speak Russian! When I browsed the Russian videos I came across one with a French girl. She wasn't able to do rolling Rs and it sounded very strange to hear Russian with throat Rs!

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## starrysky

> _In Scandinavian films "mysterious strangers" often have a Russian accent... For example in films about old times, people with magical powers sound like they are Russian. Also mysterious people whose intentions are unclear (I.e. is the person really good or really bad...?)_

 lol I listened to a radio adaptation of "A Hobbit" once and the trolls seemed to speak with a Russian accent... At least, their [r] seemed to be Russian. But then, Spanish [r] is the same as Russian, as far as I know...   

> When I browsed the Russian videos I came across one with a French girl. She wasn't able to do rolling Rs and it sounded very strange to hear Russian with throat Rs!

 That's what I must sound like -- I have a French [r]. (In Russian to pronounce [r] like this is called "картавить" or "грассировать"). This is not such a horrible defect, though. I know a lot of people who can't pronounce [r] correctly and after being acquainted with them for some time I absolutely stop noticing and sometimes forget altogether that they have any peculiarity of speech. And I never was teased about it at school either. The Russian [r] pronounced with the tip of the tongue is supposed to be the most difficult sound for children to master and if the incorrect pronunciation settles early on, it's very difficult to change. I can pronounce this sound now in separate words but not integrate it in fast speech. The soft/wet [r] is more difficult especially the [ри] syllable. Can't say it for the life of me -- and it's used quite often: in names like Ирина, in words три, рис and so on. So French [r] it is for me.    
If you can pronounce the Russian [r], my respect to you, Johanna.   ::   
As for the snobbishness question... Since Russian is not widely spoken abroad (except for the ex-USSR countries) and is notorious for its difficulty, I think most Russians would greatly appreciate and encourage anybody who tries to speak our language. Besides, Russians are supposed to be very hospitable. I don't understand where the whole "language snobbishness" would spring at all.   ::  Unless we are talking of capitals like Paris or London where people might be plain tired of hordes of tourists. (I don't know how things stand there, that's just what I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere).   ::

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## gRomoZeka

> When I feel bold enough (and am able to speak comprehensively ) I will upload a video for you to "judge".

 That would be great.   ::     

> What he is saying is definitely based on the standard textbook Russian. He's not using any of the "backwards" sounding phrases and expressions that are confusing to people who are not from a Slavic speaking country. I.e. sentences that seem like they start from the end... Also he is not using any colloquial speech or any of the "confusing" expressions that don't make sense in literal translation.... So he is making it rather easy for himself.

 I didn't pay attention to that, I'll need to watch it again.   ::  But my overall impression was that he's Russian is not overly simplified or 'textbook' Russian, but rather 'ordinary', natural one. He got tired at the end, and made a bunch of serious grammar mistakes, but apart from that it was really impressive. I wish i could learn a language like that in a meager 1,5-3 years (he mentioned in one of his comment that he studied Russian actively only for 1,5 years, and then dropped it) 
I believe that with proper motivation and dedication almost anyone can learn any language to near fluent level (the problem is that few people have either). There were articles about a Russian girl who won the first prize in a worldwide Chinese language competition. The punch line is that she studied Chinese only for 2 years (from scratch), and achieved a truly impressive level (Chinese representatives commented that she was close to a native speaker level) ! So... anything is possible.  
Personally I am too unfocused and lose interest too fast to master any language, even though I really like foreign languages and have an inkling to learning them (when I tried, I progressed really fast, but.. I always failed because of lack of motivation.. Never moved past lesson 8 in a ny textbook  :: ). I know English only because I studied it at school and kinda had no choice, and I know Ukrainian only because it's on TV all the time..  ::  It is sad, really. So I admire people who learn Russian (or any other language) and who don't give up. Good luck, guys!   ::

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## it-ogo

> But I must admit that all Italians I've heard spoke Russian clearly, even if they knew only a few words. It's probably because our languages are rather close phonetically. I've heard the same thing about Venezuelan people.

 Italians say that Russian accent is usually hard to understand.  ::  It makes speech slow and heavy in their opinion. Though for Russian Italian pronunciation is very clear no matter of which language is spoken.

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## Zubr

> What he is saying is definitely based on the standard textbook Russian.

 Я, бообще, согласен с тобой, но давай не будем слишком строги к нему. Ему не о чём рассказывать, кроме общих мест, а что сделать? Вздумай я показать своё умение говорить по-русски, то я бы тоже не знал, что сказать. «Привет, меня зовут так, мне столько лет, я живу там, я очень люблю Россия,... Ой, извините, Россию... А вот я учу русский столько времени... Я говорю и по французскому... Или по-французски? Ах! Русская грамматика самая трудная! и т.п.»
Вместе с тем, он, по-видимому, никак не приготовился, прежде чем снял. А я заметил, что если начну разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, вначале мне очень трудно выговаривать всякое слово, а после некоторого времени, как заговорюсь, так я совсем забуду, на каком языке говорю. Тут-то я буду говорить без труда, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, а между тем их соблюдая, более или менее.  ::  Нечестно было бы решить, что я совсем неспособен к русскому языку, судя по тому, как плохо я говорю на нём, когда я не готов.  
Так что я бы не заключил из видео, что he is making it easy for himself. Надо бы посмотреть длиннее видео, где он бы не был один, и действительно говорил о чём-нибудь. А он ведь сам говорит, что ему не с кем говорить там по-русски. 
(Я попутно добавлю, что этот парень говорит и по-французски, правда, прекрасно говорит. Ничего в его выговоре не оставляет мысли, что он иностранец.)

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## Zaya

> Ему не о чем рассказывать

   ::

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## Lampada

_нé о чем_

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## gRomoZeka

> (Я попутно добавлю, что этот парень говорит и по-французски, правда, прекрасно говорит. Ничего в его выговоре не оставляет мысли, что он иностранец.)

 Really? It's very interesting. Thanks for your input!  ::  
He is speaking Dutch here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i269amtNlbs *Johanna*, can you tell us if he's any good?

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## Оля

> Я_ вообще-то_ согласен с тобой, но давай не будем слишком строги к нему. Ему не о чем рассказывать, кроме общих мест, а что _делать? Вздумай я показать своё умение говорить по-русски, то я бы тоже не знал, что сказать. «Привет, меня зовут так-то, мне столько-то лет, я живу там-то, я очень люблю Россия,... Ой, извините, Россию... А вот я учу русский столько-то времени... Я говорю и по французскому... Или по-французски? Ах! Русская грамматика самая трудная! и т.п.»
> Вместе с тем, он, по-видимому, никак не приготовился, прежде чем снял этот клип _(здесь нужно дополнение)_. А я заметил, что если начну разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, вначале мне очень трудно выговаривать всякое слово, а после некоторого времени, как заговорюсь, так я совсем забуду, на каком языке говорю. Тут-то я буду говорить без труда, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, а между тем их соблюдая, более или менее.  Нечестно было бы решить, что я совсем неспособен к русскому языку, судя по тому, как плохо я говорю на нём, когда я не готов.  
> Так что я бы не заключил из видео, что he is making it easy for himself. Надо бы посмотреть видео *по*длиннее, где он бы не был один, и действительно говорил о чём-нибудь. А он ведь сам говорит, что ему не с кем говорить там по-русски. 
> (Я попутно добавлю, что этот парень говорит и по-французски, правда, прекрасно говорит. Ничего в его выговоре не оставляет мысли, что он иностранец.)

 Zubr, тебе надо срочно читать современную русскую литературу или смотреть современные фильмы. Ты пишешь на устаревшем русском, как будто это абзац из Лермонтова или Пушкина. Это выглядит довольно странно, и думаю, тебе надо об этом сказать. 
Вот, например, этот абзац: _А я заметил, что если начну разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, вначале мне очень трудно выговаривать всякое слово, а после некоторого времени, как заговорюсь, так я совсем забуду, на каком языке говорю. Тут-то я буду говорить без труда, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, а между тем их соблюдая, более или менее._
Я не стала ничего исправлять, потому что представила себе, что это фрагмент из какой-нибудь повести XIX века, и всё показалось правильным.   ::  Но сегодня люди так не говорят, такие фразы в сегодняшней речи звучат неестественно. Я бы "перевела" это на современный русский примерно так: _А я заметил, что если [s:1d18a5ak]начну[/s:1d18a5ak] начинаю разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, [s:1d18a5ak]вначале[/s:1d18a5ak] сначала мне очень трудно выговаривать [s:1d18a5ak]всякое[/s:1d18a5ak] каждое слово, а [s:1d18a5ak]после некоторого времени[/s:1d18a5ak] через какое-то время, [s:1d18a5ak]как[/s:1d18a5ak] когда заговорюсь, [s:1d18a5ak]так[/s:1d18a5ak] я совсем [s:1d18a5ak]забуду[/s:1d18a5ak] забываю, на каком языке говорю. [s:1d18a5ak]Тут-то я буду говорить без труда[/s:1d18a5ak] И тогда я говорю легко, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, [s:1d18a5ak]а между тем[/s:1d18a5ak] и/но при этом их соблюдая, более или менее._ 
Фраза "_Вздумай я показать своё умение говорить по-русски_" тоже звучит устаревше. Я бы сказала "_Если бы я решил показать, как я говорю по-русски_"

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## Hanna

Lol, my language is Swedish, not Dutch. But Devochka on this forum is from Belgium and her mother tongue is Dutch. She can probably comment.

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## gRomoZeka

> Lol, my language is Swedish, not Dutch. But Devochka on this forum is from Belgium and her mother tongue is Dutch. She can probably comment.

 Oh, sorry.   ::  
I thought that you mentioned somewhere that you can speak Norvegian and Dutch a little. I probably misunderstood.  ::

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## Hanna

Oh - you just mixed up Dutch and Danish... It's Danish that I can speak... Just because it's so similar to Swedish.  
In fact, the name of the language "Dutch" is incredibly confusing, so it is not surprising that you mixed it up! It sounds nothing like any of the places where it's spoke: Holland, Netherlands, Flanders etc...  I have no idea why it has such a strange name...

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## gRomoZeka

> Oh - you just mixed up Dutch and Danish... It's Danish that I can speak...

 Ahhh.. How embarassing. ^_^ Thanks for the correction.  ::

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## Hanna

Ничего!  ::

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## Zubr

> Zubr, тебе надо срочно читать современную русскую литературу или смотреть современные фильмы. Ты пишешь на устаревшем русском, как будто это абзац из Лермонтова или Пушкина. Это выглядит довольно странно, и думаю, тебе надо об этом сказать.

 Ой, я этого не подозревал. Правда, мне уже кто-то здесь сказал, что от меня «веет стариной», но до такой степени... Надо как-нибудь поправить это. Я вот уже купил себе сборник повестей Булгакова. Откладывал чтение, считая, что лучше начать с самого начала, но, оказывается, уже пора приниматься за него! Спасибо, Оля, что предупредила.  
So, Johanna, you see you were right indeed. Оля just told me that I sound very much like some guy from 2 centuries ago. Looks like I'll have to change my plan of getting into Russian literature in chronological order.

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## it-ogo

> Originally Posted by Оля  Zubr, тебе надо срочно читать современную русскую литературу или смотреть современные фильмы. Ты пишешь на устаревшем русском, как будто это абзац из Лермонтова или Пушкина. Это выглядит довольно странно, и думаю, тебе надо об этом сказать.   Ой, я этого не подозревал. Правда, мне уже кто-то здесь сказал, что от меня «веет стариной», но до такой степени... Надо как-нибудь поправить это.

 Не надо поправлять. Это круто. (It's cool.) Это ОЧЕНЬ круто!  ::

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## Basil77

[quote=it-ogo] 

> Originally Posted by "Оля":3l2e7s1w  Zubr, тебе надо срочно читать современную русскую литературу или смотреть современные фильмы. Ты пишешь на устаревшем русском, как будто это абзац из Лермонтова или Пушкина. Это выглядит довольно странно, и думаю, тебе надо об этом сказать.   Ой, я этого не подозревал. Правда, мне уже кто-то здесь сказал, что от меня «веет стариной», но до такой степени... Надо как-нибудь поправить это.

 Не надо поправлять. Это круто. (It's cool.) Это ОЧЕНЬ круто!  :: [/quote:3l2e7s1w]
+1. Ага, я тоже так считаю!   ::

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## Hanna

> my plan of getting into Russian literature in chronological order.

 Oh, was that your plan?  
It's a very admirable & noble plan...  ::   
All I've noticed is that you can write quite long texts in Russian and only get very few corrections. Very envious.   ::  
I agree with the others that there is something cool about speaking like a 19th century person. But I guess it's not convenient in everyday situations though: At the supermarket, at work, etc. Maybe you should introduce some modern films and litterature just to balance it a bit. *Torrents.ru.*  _I am taking the exact opposite approach to you... I am making it too easy and convenient for myself. The reason is that I am *really* worried that I will find it too hard, or get bored and lose my motivation. So I am trying to learn in fun and interesting way. As a result I have yet to seriously try to tackle the grammar. So far I have only tried to learn from examples. I recently forced myself to start learning the principles of general grammar (forgot it....)  in preparation for my inevitable confrontation with the Russian grammar.... But because I've been making it too easy I haven't made as much progress as I would have liked to.  
I have tried to vary my study methods, from flashcards, to films and a standard foreign language text book. I've even done "Pimsleur"...  am just finishing it. The pace is unbelievably slow....   I considering whether to do the Assimil "La russe sans peine" as well, for good measure...  Apparently it's a little bit more challenging. Anyone done it?_   ::

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## starrysky

Hmm, I for one don't think Zubr's Russian is old-fashioned... On the contrary it's very sophisticated, quite easy and there seem to be very few mistakes. I mean, considering how difficult Russian grammar is, it's definitely a huge achievement to be able to decline and conjugate all words correctly, and to express oneself with considerable ease. So, way to go, Zubr! You are our "отличник".   ::   
Russian also didn't really change all that much since Pushkin -- I mean, if you compare modern English and the English in which Jane Austen wrote -- there's a huge difference there, it seems like every third word she uses acquired a different meaning since then, or went out of use altogether. 
The "Вздумай я" expression is, I grant you, a bit old-fashioned but educated Russians who read a lot will often use some such expressions -- if only for fun. Like "ибо" or the "-с" particle. 
But I agree that reading modern lit and watching films is crucial because only then you can appreciate the modern spoken language.   

> So I am trying to learn in fun and interesting way.

 That's the right approach, Johanne. And I see you're making progress, too.   ::

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## Hanna

> Originally Posted by Johanne  So I am trying to learn in fun and interesting way.   That's the right approach, Johanne. And I see you're making progress, too.

 _Oh, I made a typically Russian grammatical error!   I am turning Russian, lol!_ 
I left out the definite article in the sentence quoted above. (it's just a typo.) But can you see which article I missed, and where it should be? Plus, the sentence probably sounds better if "ways" and plural is used instead of singular.   
As Rockzmom says, everybody should try to use the best possible language here, rather than being sloppy.  
As for my "fun and interesting studies",  ::   I decided to watch a bit of *"Stirlitz"* and posted my review in the Videos section.

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## Капитан

> Zubr, тебе надо срочно читать современную русскую литературу или смотреть современные фильмы. Ты пишешь на устаревшем русском, как будто это абзац из Лермонтова или Пушкина. Это выглядит довольно странно, и думаю, тебе надо об этом сказать.

 My apologies. Why on Earth would one want to give up the pure and heavenly sounding classical Russian language for some brutally cut and shallowly substantiated 'modern Russian'? I like the way it sounds, "возьми я..". Actually I miss the fidelity and delicateness of older written and spoken Russian. I believe that if most of the native speakers abandoned their heritage for jargon and borrowed computer/marketing/PR terminology, it would be foreingers who would teach us how to speak the wonderful language of our classical writers.

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## devochka

> Lol, my language is Swedish, not Dutch. But Devochka on this forum is from Belgium and her mother tongue is Dutch. She can probably comment.

 
I'm at work now so no Youtube for me. But I'll watch the clip when I get home and post my comments.  
BTW, here is a bit of info about the origin of the word Dutch: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietsch

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## starrysky

> _Oh, I made a typically Russian grammatical error!   I am turning Russian, lol!_ 
> I left out the definite article in the sentence quoted above. (it's just a typo.) But can you see which article I missed, and where it should be? Plus, the sentence probably sounds better if "ways" and plural is used instead of singular.

 Oh, I didn't notice the typo. I'd say an indefinite artcile would be OK in this sentence: 
So I am trying to learn in a fun and interesting way.

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## Оля

> My apologies. Why on Earth would one want to give up the pure and heavenly sounding classical Russian language for some brutally cut and shallowly substantiated 'modern Russian'? I like the way it sounds, "возьми я..". Actually I miss the fidelity and delicateness of older written and spoken Russian. I believe that if most of the native speakers abandoned their heritage for jargon and borrowed computer/marketing/PR terminology, it would be foreingers who would teach us how to speak the wonderful language of our classical writers.

 К чему этот пафос?
Lermontov's or Pushkin's language could be perfect, but nowadays people speak a bit different. That's not bad or good, that's reality.

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## devochka

Ok, so about the video of the guy speaking Russian, French, Dutch and a bunch of other languages: wow! I just watched his Dutch video and I have to say I was very impressed. There are some very minor grammatical mistakes but he speaks incredibly freely. His accent still strikes me as foreign but that is because he is speaking with a (Northern) Dutch accent rather than a Flemish accent. But his accent, even though it's not the accent I'm used to, is very good. Well, maybe someone from the Netherlands would disagree but to me he sounds almost like a real "голландец".

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## Hanna

Starrysky, that's exactly the error. Olya, you made a grammar mistake that all Americans make as a rule, haha! Namely, you used a verb when you should have used an adverb. (Hope I got the grammatical terminology right... )   

> nowadays people speak a bit differentLY.

 For some reason Americans always drop (ignore) the "-ly" ending, which is what Olya did too, just this once. Not sure why it's dropped... But it has to be wrong.. Or?  I don't know! But to a British person it sounds like bad grammar.   
To get back to the topic of "snobbism": If regional dialects don't exist and there are no "class-differences" in pronounciation, then there is less scope for snobbism.  
When I was using "Livemocha.com" for a while earlier this year I was really suspicious to the pronounciation tips from everyone other than people from Moscow/StP.... How silly!  I had no idea that everyone has the same dialect.  
Some people might think that accents are charming or whatever.. But not having them is really practical and fair; in the UK having the "wrong" accent is a serious handicap. Sweden has some incredibly ugly accents which just sound dreadful to everyone but those who speak the same way.

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## Hanna

Haha, I just realised, "Luca" speaks SWEDISH too..  But it doesn't seem to be one of his better langauges. He's talking relatively comprehensibly for a while about his appreciation of Swedish women (naturally!!!) but after that he starts rambling and doesn't make a lot of sense.  
But the question is; Is he just being a "parrot" repeating back the phases from courses such as Pimsleur? Can he really read a paper in Russian or get a regular job where he has to speak Dutch or Swedish?  
I guess some people collect languages like others collect stamps etc. Like a hobby. I see it as purely a practical matter; wanting to speak to people, work with people, read things that otherwise would not be accesible.   _Learning English was not a choice for me. It was an absolute necessity.  People who fail English in school cannot go to university in large parts of Europe. Luckily for me I had plenty of exposure to English in my teens, so it was not as hard as it could have been. I haven't managed to learn any other languages to a seriously useful level._

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## Alex_K

Мне очень понравился вопрос, поэтому коротко тоже отвечу  ::  Мне кажется все зависит от того насколько уважают говорящего человека.  Недавно видел передачу про наших теноров (певцов) там известный американский актер говорил по-русски, я испытал только уважение за это. НО если я смотрю  фильм, где говорят Серьььеежжаа, яааа буудуу фаас упиииваать (изображаю акцент), то хочется только смеяться, неужели в Голливуде некому поставить русскую речь, непрофессионально как-то. Мое мнение, к иностранцам пытающихся говорить по-русски относятся хорошо. Замечу только, что если речь идет о странах раннее входящих в СССР, то тут у каждого индивидуально играет чувство обиды, как это так украинцы, литовцы и т.д. не говорят по-русски и винят нас во всех грехах. И отдельная тема - Кавказ и Азия, думаю очень много людей агрессивно относится к тому, что гастарбайтеры плохо говорят по-русски, думаю в Америке с латиноамериканцами также, причины думаю ясны.

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## ac220

> К чему этот пафос?
> Lermontov's or Pushkin's language could be perfect, but nowadays people speak a bit different. That's not bad or good, that's reality.

 К чему такой выпендрёж, - "пафос" это такое старомодное и книжное слово!    ::   Никто так не говорит.   
Просто это всё зависит от того с кем и о чём идёт разговор. И в некоторых случаях именно такой, чуть старомодный русский, - самый правильный выбор, если, конечно, он хорошо у вас получается.  ::   В английском тоже, скажем, политик, не будет говорить что-нибудь типа "Y'all guys wanna ...", разве что в шутку, даже если такие фразы встречаются в повседневности.   
И вообще, меня вот скажем, при изучении французского дико бесит, что, например, passé simple запихивают куда-то в конец учебников и справочников (про нормальное учебное аудио я уже забыл даже и думать), потому как "никто теперь так не говорит". При том, что меня интересует в первую очередь литература XIX века (где как раз "современное" прошедшее время используют редко), а не возможность запросто болтать с парижанами.   ::  Приходится извращаться... 
As for the original topic... I don't know. Here in Riga, Latvians can be quite snobbish to _unaccented_ Russian-speakers. But overall, having a foreign accent is OK, as long as you're understandable. In central Riga you can even just speak English. (don't expect good English in reply though...)

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## Hanna

> Мое мнение, к иностранцам пытающихся говорить по-русски относятся хорошо. Замечу только, что если речь идет о странах раннее входящих в СССР, то тут у каждого индивидуально играет чувство обиды, как это так украинцы, литовцы и т.д. не говорят по-русски и винят нас во всех грехах. И отдельная тема - Кавказ и Азия, думаю очень много людей агрессивно относится к тому, что гастарбайтеры плохо говорят по-русски, думаю в Америке с латиноамериканцами также, причины думаю ясны.

 This was interesting to learn about. I have never met anybody from the Caucasus area or from Central Asia... But have met lots and lots of Baltic people. I think many of them actually like the Russian language and literature a lot.  
The resentment might just be a temporary thing. When they leave their area and come to England or Scandinavia they are very happy to use their Russian skills and talk about it. I have also heard Baltic people speak warmly about some sides of the USSR. Both English and Scandinavian people are impressed that they are bilingual with Russian and their own language. I have heard of Scandinavian people who could speak a little bit Russian and used it in the Baltic states because people they met couldn't speak English. 
In the long run it will definitely be beneficial for the Baltic states to be bilingual countries. It's a positive thing and I think they ought to make the most of it.  Some of the most successful countries in Western Europe are bilingual: Switzerland, Belgium, Finland....    

> As for the original topic... I don't know. Here in Riga, Latvians can be quite snobbish to unaccented Russian-speakers. But overall, having a foreign accent is OK, as long as you're understandable. In central Riga you can even just speak English. (don't expect good English in reply though...)

 Interesting. How do you know which language to address people in in Riga? I heard it's about 50-50 in Riga between native Latvian speakers and native Russian speakers.

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## ac220

Honestly I`m not quite sure how to describe it. The first few phrases can be a mix of two languages, and then it somehow settles into one both speakers are comfortable with. Something like... 
- Мне пожалуйста, хот-дог и Кока-колу.
- Tās būs lats un deviņdesmit pieci... (Это будет один лат девяносто пять)
 Siņepes, kečups?  
After that I usually reply in Latvian and it continues like that from there, but if I'm distreacted,I can say "с горчицей" or, worse, make some gross error like "ar sinepes, lūdzu" _(instead of the correct one, "ar siņepiem." Or was that the correct one? Why Latvians decided that mustard has to be always-plural?  ) I really don't speak different languages that well unless I had an hour or two to "shift gears" so to speak..._ Then the seller can reply in Russian or she won't, and I'd have to correct myself... Or it may continue to be "bilingual". 
Sort of like that. That's how we do it In Riga while doing important business, like selling something.  ::   
 Somewhere in rural southeast Latvia it could be some local jargon no one else speaks (Ko tu броду по manu огороду? Ceļa рядом nau?) Or if the place is more monoethnic, you WILL get funny looks and jeers for speaking anything but local Latvian (or Russian or Latgalian )...  ::   ::  
Sorry for any bad English...

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## devochka

> Some of the most successful countries in Western Europe are bilingual: Switzerland, Belgium, Finland....

 
Actually, Belgium is trilingual: Dutch, French and German. And Switzerland even has 4 official languages (German, French, Italian and Romanche).  
I wasn't aware Finland is bilingual. (thank you Wikipedia for educating me once again   ::  )

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## ycomp

I am a foreigner but you asked interesting questions, so I'll make some observations:   

> --Is the situation different in countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan?

 I met some people from Kazahkstan, they spoke Russian very well... but they looked Russian to me, so well - ok why did I even write this?  ::    

> --Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?

 Russian is a very difficult language I think for most foreigners... I'd place it as a 3.5/5 or perhaps even 4/5 on the difficulty scale of European languages. One thing Russian has going for it is that the language is quite clear... the speech isn't sloppy like say Polish or French (at least those languages sound sloppy to my ears) or utterly alien and mystifying like Hungarian. So at least (with some exposure), you should be able to at least pick out the words - even if you have no idea what they mean.   

> --Can Baltic people usually speak good Russian or not? I have noticed that they always mention "native fluency in Russian" on their CV/Resume.

 Well ethnic Russians there certainly seem to  ::  but also I met some Latvian Latvians and they seem to speak Russian much better than most other foreigners I've met - but not as good as the Russian Latvians. At least from my experience. My understanding is that Latvia is still about 40% native (but treated like 2nd class citizens by the government) Russians, even with all the post Soviet emigration. But I could be mistaken, maybe the 40% figure is high now?   

> --What about the Central Asian people who work in Russia - what are their Russian skills generally like?

 Uzbeks (I'm guessing they are uzbeks since they sell the uzbek tasty bread), sound absolutely horrible... much worse than Arabs.   

> --What about Westerners - how often do you meet somebody who can actually speak Russian well?

 It is rare, especially if that Westerner is American. Many Americans living in Russia/Ukraine either have no interest in learning Russian, or if they do - it does not come to them easily (e.g. after 3 years of living, the -better- ones are just being able to hold conversation - even having had tutors for at least a year and being immersed for 3+ years - and still have absolutely horrible accents).  
I'm sure there are some Americans that speak it well and with softer Accents but really the only ones I personally met that spoke it well were in the military. Americans have great difficulty even just pronouncing the language. They (as a rule) usually cannot seem to pronounce 2 consonants together (which is a common feature of Russian) nor can they do a rolling 'r' 
There are some westerners that can converse "proficiently", but they still have quite noticeable accents usually. 
There are 2 caveats to what I wrote... 1) I don't come in contact with too many foreigners living for a long time in Russia on Business and 2) same goes for students from Western countries... so I don't know about these groups, I suspect there must be some among them that can speak Russian quite well. 
I did meet an Englishman who I was impressed by. He never studied it, merely lived in Ukraine a while and is married to a Russian speaker. But his is merely functional Russian, he was able to get his car fixed in front of me (explain the problem to a taxi driver, get taxi drive to drive him to mechanic, get mechanic to fix the problem) without any help from me, so I was impressed. But will he understand the evening news on TV, definitely no. 
About Americans.. you can see why it is so difficult for them simply by listening to Russians speak English. I can safely say that in the US & Canada, the European nationality that has the most difficulty with English - that I've come across - is easily the Russians. Some Russians adults (of course kids are another story) will lose their accent in time, but it quite rare and usually those came over in their 20s. They also have a hell of a time with English grammar. Especially "a" and "the". The reason Russians have such problems compared to other Europeans is that much of English is just that much more foreign to them, and same goes for English speakers in relation to the Russian language. Even simple things often in Russian do not have a 1:1 mapping to English... like many of the prepositions.

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## silicium

> About Americans.. you can see why it is so difficult for them simply by listening to Russians speak English. I can safely say that in the US & Canada, the European nationality that has the most difficulty with English - that I've come across - is easily the Russians. Some Russians adults (of course kids are another story) will lose their accent in time, but it quite rare and usually those came over in their 20s. They also have a hell of a time with English grammar. Especially "a" and "the". The reason Russians have such problems compared to other Europeans is that much of English is just that much more foreign to them, and same goes for English speakers in relation to the Russian language. Even simple things often in Russian do not have a 1:1 mapping to English... like many of the prepositions.

 It is surprising to me!    ::  
I always tought Russians to be ..good learners) I mean Russian speech apparatus let us easily imitate different sounds...   ::

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## ycomp

> It is surprising to me!    
> I always tought Russians to be ..good learners) I mean Russian speech apparatus let us easily imitate different sounds...

 Russians have extremely an difficult time getting rid of their accents... over time it will soften quite a bit, but still be very noticeable. There are a few that will lose it completely, but "few" is the operative word. I also have no problem identifying a Russian simply from the way they speak English. Ok, to tell you the truth I am not sure if I would be able to distinguish the Russian accent from a Ukrainian speaking English (since most of the Ukrainians I came across back home usually happened to be Russian Speakers - i.e. from Kiev, Crimea or the East... so I don't exactly know what Ukrainian Ukrainians speaking English sound like ) 
Almost every Russian song I've heard where the singer sings in English, has a thick thick Russian accent... which is understandable because they live in the ex-USSR... but by comparison, Swedish pop - often I can't hear much of an accent at all in that. 
I imagine it must be easier for Russians to sing well in Russian than English speakers to sing well in English, even I find it easier to sing in Russian than English lol... probably it is like the Chinese, many of them are great singers because the language is already semi-musical... which makes it really jarring when you hear a Chinese person who really can't sing - nevertheless they all love karaoke! 
The one thing I never understood was why so many men find Russian accents on girls "very sexy". It really depends on the girl, but many of them have a very harsh accent that after a few years living in the west, will become softer (and then sound very sexy)... but the Dracula accent thing* doesn't really sound that attractive to me, perhaps the people that like that also enjoy Irish accents (which I find rather distracting). Perhaps I shouldn't call it the Dracula accent, but it is the best approximation. Not everyone has it, but many people do. That's the interesting thing really, how different in strength a person's accent may be - but they are all distinctly immediately identifiable as Russian  * note:_ these girls sound great speaking Russian (it is just in English their accent is super-thick)._ 
p.s while I'm doing my observations, I might as well point out something else I always found rather interesting. Back home, in the west, I would often ask people where they are from (when I heard an accent - usually I had a guess in mind already... and in Russian people's cases I knew they were Russian speakers) but I would get all sorts of answers... 
like:
Czech Republic (if the person is Czech)
Hungary (if the person is Hungarian)
Latvia (if the person is Latvian)
Poland (if the person is Polish)
Romania (if the person is Romanian) 
... I think you can see a pattern here?  ::  
So what would a Russian or Ukrainian answer? 
"Europe" of course!  ::  this happened in more than half the cases... not really sure how much more than half, but it was the majority. These were older people (over 40 usually), I was not making a habit of chatting up young people. So perhaps the young might respond differently 
My theory is that perhaps some think that western people may not automatically like them? who knows? 
I did talk to a Russian girl back home and she said "do you like Russian girls?"... I said "well, sure"... and she seemed kind of surprised and happy. So maybe some Russians do believe that Westerners may have prejudices against them... just my theory 
also, another note: 
Russians (and Ukrainians) have arguably (well not arguably, they actually do have)... the best programmers in the world. Russian programmers are very intelligent. In one of my previous software businesses, I had customers in over 50 countries... and the countries that had by far the worst written English among their programmers were in this order: 
1) Korea & China (they tie for first - often simply completely incomprehensible emails)
2) Russians 
(note: I did not have many Japanese customers... so I am unsure where they would be in the list) 
other Slavic countries seemed to have better English among the programmers. And all Europeans had pretty good English for the most part. I even suspected it is hard in Germany to become a manager if you can't speak English... but probably that is not true. I suspect part of the reason the Russian programmers' English was so bad (difficult to understand) is probably the educational system. I noticed that smaller European countries, even in the East, generally had better English skills. So I think perhaps it is because Russia and Ukraine are large countries whereas when your country's population is less than 10 or 20 million, you had probably better learn English in the hopes of making your businesses more international. Another guess, but I think it's a good one...

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## Оля

> I also have no problem identifying a Russian simply from the way they speak English. 
> I would often ask people where they are from (when I heard an accent - usually I had a guess in mind already... and in Russian people's cases I knew they were Russian speakers

 Ycomp... your post is very interesting. Can I ask you please?.. Here's a thread where I posted a clip with my voice speaking English. Could you please, if you can listen to it, tell me how "evident" my Russian accent is, in this clip? I'm asking because I've been told several times (not only about this particular recording) that my accent is anything but not Russian. So I'm just curious about your opinion.  ::  viewtopic.php?f=57&t=19076

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## ycomp

> Originally Posted by ycomp  Ycomp... your post is very interesting. Can I ask you please?.. Here's a thread where I posted a clip with my voice speaking English. Could you please, if you can listen to it, tell me how "evident" my Russian accent is, in this clip? I'm asking because I've been told several times (not only about this particular recording) that my accent is anything but not Russian. So I'm just curious about your opinion.  viewtopic.php?f=57&t=19076

 well it is definitely not a "Dracula Accent", lol... when I'm listening to that I'm reminded of Audrey Hepburn in War and Peace lol... ok well, the thing it is not natural spoken conversational English... is is a slow dramatic reading. It reminds me of a lot of movies from perhaps the 50s or 60s... like Sophia Loren was also talking somewhat similar back then. 
But I will identify the parts that do sound like a Russian speaking English, to me: 
the woman 
whole 
that one 
was 
as a lover * this is perhaps your strongest / most identifiable in the video  whatever was after "he never spoke" and before "save"... sorry I could not quite understand it but it did sound like the way a Russian would say it. 
I think in conversational English you would have for the most part a relatively soft accent for a Russian. The reason you can tell if an accent is Russian or Germanic (Dutch, German, etc.) or [insert your favorite language here] is the quirks on certain words or sounds that really give away where they are from. Without those you might just think "oh he/she has an accent" but have no idea from where exactly. 
would I have ever guessed from the video it was a Russian speaker? I am not sure... because of what I wrote about it being a "slow reading". It is kind of like when Russian Instructors on the youtube videos I watched would speak the word slowly to pronounce it for you, thinking this made it easier for you. Actually it doesn't. Since the word doesn't sound like that at full speed. A more effective way would be for them simply to repeat the word at full speed 3 or 4 times. Instead of 1 time fast, 1 time very slow. I'm not criticizing your reading, just pointing out that it would sound different than regular conversation. 
There is a very prolific fitness video girl (bodyrock) I think it is called on youtube. Everyone keeps commenting on her vids that she is Russian or that they love Russian girls. They probably have this idea from the way she looks (she is blonde and fit) and because she has an accent. Some people write that she is Czech, and the scenery does look like the Czech Republic and she has a Czech name and looks like she could be Czech... but the point is, her accent has some distinct differences from a Russian accent. And it would be hard to confuse the two, for people who have heard many Russians speak in English before. (I come from Toronto, and lived in a neighbourhood with a number of Russians, Poles, Ukrainians, Latvians - also I believe we have at least 3 to 400,000 Russians and Ukrainians in the city - so they are everywhere)

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## Оля

Thanks for your opinion, ycomp.
Okay, I think in some days, when I find my mp3 player, I'll probably post another, more 'conversational' recording... Don't leave the forum.  ::

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## Hanna

I think accents from Slavic langauges sound 10 times better paired with British accents, compared with American accents.  
After watching so many Hollywood films where the "bad guys" are Russians (communists or gangsters....), American accent + Russian accent just give a bad feeling...  
On the other hand, British + Slavic accent sounds good and is a positive thing because the people from Eastern Europe that turn up in England tend to be smart, ambitious, hardworking, intellectual...  They impress people. This accent combination also reminds everyone of various Nobel prize winners, scientists and successful artists and authors. *It sounds sophisticated*  and the speaker can gradually work on reducing his accent. 
That's my view.... I would recommend people to focus on the British accent unless you are going to live in North America.

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## ac220

> --Can Baltic people usually speak good Russian or not? I have noticed that they always mention "native fluency in Russian" on their CV/Resume.

 No, not always. But the kind that might consider working abroad usually does. Many of them are Baltic Russians and Poles, for starters... And ethnic Latvians usually know at least some Russian (maybe less nowadays) and although they might have distinct sing-song accent, they would be understood by any Russian. Writtten Russian is a different matter entirely though, - one of my friends is Latvian, she speaks perfect accentless Russian, but "semiliterate scrawls" is the most charitable description of her writing. I mean stuff like "Я ишла к тепе вгости" (Я шла к тебе в гости. ) not pet pevees about missed commas. Although she got much better at it lately. (And of course, she writes Latvian fairly well.) 
Estonians, well, never had been there, but here's an anecdote, - In one of the companies I worked, we've lost a major contract with an Estonian wholesale operator precisely because very few of their employees knew any language but Estonian or Finnish, so we just couldn't organize tech support...

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## Hanna

That's interesting to learn about. I always think about Baltic people as practically language geniuses! Your English is very good! You write like a well-educated native speaker. 
When I was a kid I had a piano teacher who came from Lithuania who spoke Polish, Lithuanian, Russian, German and Swedish. She somehow learnt all the first four while growing up! The she learnt Swedish after she moved there, and she spoke it quite well.

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## ac220

> That's interesting to learn about. I always think about Baltic people as practically language geniuses!

 I wish we really were.  ::  I'm definitely not a language genius of any sort, I just got lucky with English, - despite growing up mostly in those hick villages* where no one speaks any recognizable language, all the schools I attended somehow had excellent English teachers who really cared about the language, and whom everybody adored...   
As a further proof, my attempt to learn German failed miserably, and French... Well, I really-really want to learn it, but quite often I just drop the textbook/stop the audio in sheer disgust ad exasperation and think that French is really an elaborate practical joke made up by some Paris-based linguistic cabal... But I would have the last laugh on them someday.   ::  Besides, a language that some of the world's finest novelists and philosophers spoke can't be simple almost by definition.  ::   
My mom somehow managed to live for 5 years in the middle of England and still Google Translate speaks better than she does  ::  
On the other hand, there are people like that piano teacher of yours, or my grandpa (who knew Latvian, Russian and German well enough to translate professionally and read Goethe for fun, plus a few other languages.)  Or a lot of my multilingual friends or acquaintances for that matter. 
And on the still other hand, if Wikipedia has to be trusted, 60% of the world population is multilingual. So, the way I see it, fluency in more than one language is the norm, not the opposite... 
* That said, they're quite nice and tolerant places to live. Or they were, rather, until all those economical crises. Better than the other kind, where everyone was a staunch chauvinist of some stripe, including children playing in sandboxes. Although THAT thankfully was pretty much cured by those same crises. And of course "no one speaks any recognizable language" is an exaggeration, - we understood ourselves just fine  ::   and if one had to, they could speak largerly intellegible Russian or Latgalian... (Which is to Latvian a bit like very thick Scottish accent is to English...  "Dzīve" (life) becomes "dzeive", "pieci" (five) ->"pīci", "ūdens" (water)->"iudens" and "māja" (home) -> "sāta" (a completely diferent word with a cognate in standard Latvian meaning "farmyard" )  And yes, to a Latvian it sounds so amusing that some don't believe it exists until they meet actual speakers.   ::   Note on reading: Macron (ā,ē,ī, ū) is read as it is in Latin, and cedilla (ņ,ķ,ļ,ķ,ģ,ŗ) works basically like Russian "ь" does, š, č =ш, ч. and two vowels together like "ie" or "iu" are read... ok, I can't do it without IPA and textbook.  ::  But most likely not the way you think they should  ::

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## ycomp

My Latvian friend told me a joke after I commented that Hungarian, Estonian, Finnish (and Korean and Japanese and I think Mongolian too) are all related. 
He said, did I know how Hungary and Estonia were populated? 
me: no 
He said when they came out of Asia, they came to a crossroads.... and there was a sign. Go left for warm weather and Sunshine... so those that could read went left and became Hungarians. Those that couldn't went right and became Estonians  ::  
Well I only knew one Estonian ever, and he was damn smart. I also met a girl from Estonia but she was native Russian.

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## alexB

> p.s while I'm doing my observations, I might as well point out something else I always found rather interesting. Back home, in the west, I would often ask people where they are from (when I heard an accent - usually I had a guess in mind already... and in Russian people's cases I knew they were Russian speakers) but I would get all sorts of answers... 
> like:
> Czech Republic (if the person is Czech)
> Hungary (if the person is Hungarian)
> Latvia (if the person is Latvian)
> Poland (if the person is Polish)
> Romania (if the person is Romanian) 
> ... I think you can see a pattern here?  
> So what would a Russian or Ukrainian answer? 
> ...

 Many home appliances manufactured in Ukraine have a sticker on them that says Made in Europe. The thing is those appliances often break up the second you turn them on. So the manufactures must be ashamed of themselves to admit they make such a crap and hide behind the Made in EU sticker.
No offence, Ukrainians. Russian crap sometimes is more crappyer than any other crap in the world.  ::

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## Ramil

::  why not put a label 'Made on Earth' instead?

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## Hanna

Following from the above, can I ask something? Why do people say that everything made in the USSR was bad quality?  
I have had 4 things that I can remember that came from there: 1) A pair of skates 2) A sewing machine 3) A swimming costume 4) A watch.  
Although they did not have the latest cool and stylish design at the time, *all three items looked ok and did not break down at all.* The watch was a gift and the rest I bought myself - very cheap.  
If this stuff is anything to go by, what was the problem?

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## Ramil

> Following from the above, can I ask something? Why do people say that everything made in the USSR was bad quality?

 I know that such opinions exist but don't really share them. The main reason for them is the fact that Soviet goods lacked the style as you pointed out, and we didn't know that good advertisement can help to sell a total cr@p to innocents  ::  Soviet goods looked crude and tasteless compared to their western counterparts. There are some things that Russia can't do well even now - light automobiles, for example, or electronics. While Russian Kamazes have just won the Paris-Dakkar rally for yet another time, our Ladas and Volgas are terrible. 60% of the Soviet GDP was spent on defense, therefore to meet the civilian demands many factories were 'dual-purpose enterprises'. 
The goods they produced were of 'army style' and of course weren't the masterpieces of design. Still they were intended for heavy duty service for prolonged periods. Apart from Ladas, Volgas and electronics, everything else was of a very good quality.
There's another reason. Soviet people seldom saw imported goods and all imports was of highest quality (China wasn't a world's factory back then and we didn't know that poor quality goods existed in the West too). Of course, compared to the imports we saw, Soviet goods failed the competition.

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## alexB

That’s because all those things where made for export. There was that old Soviet habit of the country falling over itself by giving away what best it had and keeping what little and inferior was left to its people to show the world the benefits of living under socialism.  My first car was a Russian Lada that had been used for five years already by the time I bought it in Hungary when the gates to the outer world started to crack a little and our folks got the opportunity of buying things in Eastern Europe not being able to do it at home. So, it was an excellent car that served me well and true for quite a time till it was stolen and ruined in the process. But the secret of its longevity was that initially it was manufactured for export.  I bought the same make of the car later on but the one made purely for domestic consumption. There was no end of my frustration with that car for all the three years I had been in possession of it. As for nowadays, I don’t see, if ever, anything good made in Russia either, just the Chinese junk as far as the eye can reach.
About the *Made in China*, how are things in the West BTW?

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## Lampada

Большинство товаров из Китая.  А если не из Китая, то втридорога.

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## alexB

Does that mean three times better?

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## Ramil

@alexB, yes, maybe the car did serve for a long time, but what about these niceties that make a car comfortable for a driver and passengers? What about such options as automatic transmission or air conditioning? What about warming of the seats in winter? I don't even mention ABS, steering hydraulics, etc. All of this was available back in 1980s in the West. 
I can agree that UAZ-469 is probably the best SUV in the world regarding off-road capabilities, but it's pure hell to have a car like that in the city. 
If you get used for Spartan conditions you'd probably be content with it, but what really pisses me off is that our @!#$ government supports VAZ and GAZ by maintaining those damn high import duties for cars what makes them more expensive by 30-40%. If only them at VAZ started making good cars, but no, they continue to produce that cr@p they call automobiles and put all government subsidies into their pockets. It drives me mad. Russian automobile industry is a good illustration to what they call 'Epic Fail'.

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## alexB

There’s no denying western cars were superior in many or rather every way and if there ever was something good made in USSR it was more of the exception than the rule. It’s a shame though that now when western merchandise came into our lives they have a tendency of deteriorating year after year. It was not uncommon not long ago that you could by a ten year old car and make another 150000km to the 100000km that were already there, without so much as doing nothing to the car apart from the usual maintenance, like changing motor oil, filters, brake pads and occasionall fuel adding to a gas tank. Can you or any of your friends say that about today’s super-duper gadget packed automobiles? Could they run problem free at least a hundred thousand kilometers? I doubt that very much. The junk is winning over. Or maybe it’s winning in Russia only? Why bother making good stuff for undemanding consumer when it’s a fat chance he’s gonna sue you should your product turns out to be defective.  ::   ::   ::

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## Ramil

> There’s no denying western cars were superior in many or rather every way and if there ever was something good made in USSR it was more of the exception than the rule. It’s a shame though that now when western merchandise came into our lives they have a tendency of deteriorating year after year. It was not uncommon not long ago that you could by a ten year old car and make another 150000km to the 100000km that were already there, without so much as doing nothing to the car apart from the usual maintenance, like changing motor oil, filters, brake pads and occasionall fuel adding to a gas tank. Can you or any of your friends say that about today’s super-duper gadget packed automobiles? Could they run problem free at least a hundred thousand kilometers? I doubt that very much. The junk is winning over. Or maybe it’s winning in Russia only? Why bother making good stuff for undemanding consumer when it’s a fat chance he’s gonna sue you should your product turns out to be defective.

 I bought my Audi A3 in 2002 when it had 75000 km on its odometer and I've added another 120000 km myself. I only changed motor oil, brake pads and filters. It's the best car I've ever had (with the possible exception of VW Passat B3 of 1989 - when I have finally sold it it had 420000 km on the odometer).

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## Hanna

> If you can pronounce the Russian [r], my respect to you, Johanna.

 Haha, we have the rolling (Russian-style) R in all of Scandinavia. 
So it's completely natural to me! The sounds that are difficult are:  
1) Remembering that there is a difference between ш, щ and ж. We have these sounds, but it's "free" and depends on lots of complicated things which one people use and when....  
2) o -> a rule... 
3) Some Russian vowels that are a bit like a mix of two different vowels (from my perspective).     

> Something about rolling R:  Here is a funny Swedish commercial, in Finnish. Proper Rs!! We all use them. Particularly when really trying to make a point, or swearing. ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITLmI...eature=related  
> Awesome moment in the history of Ice hockey with commenting in Swedish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cHUtlNnO5s  Real Rs all the way!

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## Hanna

About the stuff from China - Well, maybe you get some of the worst junk from there whereas the stuff that makes it all the way to Europe is slightly better quality. Practically all the European clothes chains have their clothes made in China though- apart from serious designers.   
I do not support the extreme globalism/capitalism that has created the China sweatshop boom. I prefer to have less clothes, locally made, than to keep buying cheap clothes from China. Unless we in the West start consuming less, borrowing less and educating ourselves better,  we'll all be working for the Chinese 20 years from now. I really don't want that to happen.

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## ycomp

> If you can pronounce the Russian [r], my respect to you, Johanna.
> 			
> 		  Haha, we have the rolling (Russian-style) R in all of Scandinavia. 
> So it's completely natural to me! The sounds that are difficult are:  
> 1) Remembering that there is a difference between ш, щ and ж. We have these sounds, but it's "free" and depends on lots of complicated things which one people use and when....  
> 2) o -> a rule... 
> 3) Some Russian vowels that are a bit like a mix of two different vowels (from my perspective).

 personally I'm a little strange... I have no problem pronouncing Russian (or Romanian)... except for 2 exceptions... at first (but not anymore) I had problem with the vowel "Ы" sometimes because in English, I guess we don't go down our throat that far... and also there is one vowel in Romanian that is extremely hard to pronounce. I think something like a "u" but also very guttural sounding. But Romanians back home when they met me sometimes would think maybe I was a Romanian who was just playing with them, and ask their friends is he really not Romanian? lol... I really think it is one of the easiest languages to learn because it is so easy to remember a phrase and they pronounce (like Russian and unlike French) very clearly. 
so for me 'r' was never a problem in Russian, when people hear me speak (although my grammar is quite bad apart from anything that is basic), they think either I have a soft acccent (standard Russian accent, not Moscow style) or no accent at all (guess it depends what I'm speaking) and make such comments like he sounds just like a local. note: I did have some exposure to Russian growing, up.. although not a great amount and I never spoke a word, well except for a few. I have always had much better pronunciation than my cousin who actually has 2 Russian speaking parents who would often talk with each other in Russian... so it is strange to realize for people learning the language, even if both parents speak it sometimes the kid still doesn't speak Russian very well and has a problem with not "speaking Russian with a western accent". Also I met a black guy who was actually born in Russia, but moved to US around 8... his mother is Russian.. This guy speaks and understands Russian quite well - much better than me - but also has a western sort of accent, which I thought was very weird. 
So at least in my case, I find Russian not difficult to pronounce at all. But languages like Hungarian quite hard to get straight... and I think for me a language like Polish would be more difficult for me to pronounce.... sometimes to my ears Ukrainian sounds a bit more western in that many sounds sound more "flat" to me than in Russian. I personally think Russian is a more beautiful sounding language than Ukrainian but almost every Russian-speaking Ukrainian I've talked to about this seems to think that Ukrainian is one of the most beautiful languages on Earth... and often quote the same thing to me, that it is the 4th? 3rd? most beautiful language for singing.... don't remember the others but I think Italian was #1 in that list. Since it is the same thing everyone is telling me (these are all young people under 30), I'm guessing such things are taught in school. 
also I think it is easier to sing in Russian than in English, at least with me I have problems with some songs in English (others I can sing quite well) but in Russian all songs seem "singable" to me 
p.s. does anyone in Belarus speak Belorussian anymore? or do they just all speak Russian now?

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## mishau_

> This is to find out how native Russian speakers feel about people who speak Russian as a foreign language.

 Я бы был очень толерантен, растроган до слез, но такие люди куда-то с форума свинтили.    ::   
The English language is our best Russian here, right?  ::

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## AndrewB

Talking about Russian in Ex-USSR.  I was born in USSR,5 years before the fall  :: . Before moving to Romania I think that my Russian was like the 2nd mothertongue,now I have some problems when it comes to write it.
For example in Moldova,Russian is wide spoken,especially in Kishinev(the capital),where although Russians are 15% on the streets you hear more Russian than Romanian,I'd say 60-70% Russian and 30-40% Romanian.In the villages ,Romanian is spoken more than Russian. There is a certain language in Kishinev and in big cities that young people use,some hybrid between Russian and Romanian,based on Romanian grammar. For example: Blin am paterit nomerul de mobilnik al tiolchii cu care am bazarit cherez skype .Damn ,I ve lost the mobile number of the girl with whom I talked on skype)
 In the villages , there are people who aren't fluent in Russian (believe it or not those are people older than 60 yo). Nowadays many young people in Moldova are fluent in Russian because all the movies they download from internet are translated in Russian,cinemas in Moldova are in Russian so are the books in library,people watch Russian television,especially Comedy Club and shows like that.
 Of course some Moldovans make mistakes in Russian, and some sort of Moldovan accent ,although not so strong as the Baltic or Caucasian one ,exists: for example Sofia Rotaru speaks Russian with Moldovan accent.
 However,people here are generally positive towards Russian . Another interesing fact : in Molodva 1 Russian and 5-6 Moldovans will always speak Russian.
 The problem is that many Moldovans,although they can speak Russian very good,they write it like kids in the 2nd grade. Палатенце instead of полотенце and so on. And this is the case of young people who didn't learn Russian in school,but in family,on the streets,television. 
 As for other nations of the ex-USSR ,I'd say Ukrainians speak Russian very good,Belarussians,Kazahs and Armenians.Estonians on the other hand speak Russian very bad. 
 I haven't meet people from outside ex-USSR able to speak Russian very good(except for those who were born in USSR and emigrated ).

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## Hanna

This is interesting to hear! 
I hardly knew anything at all about Moldova, and what it's like there. I did not know that people there were fond of Russian.  _It's nice that there are still places in the world where English is not the first foreign language that people learn._   *Someone was asking about how we can recognise a Russian accent, in English.* 
You can't, really: All that we can hear is that it is a Slavic accent: Russian and Serbian accent sounds absolutely the same in English. I have worked with Serbs, Russians and Ukrainians. Their accents sounded the same to me. Polish and Czech accents sound very similar too. I spoke to a person on the phone for a while a few weeks ago and I assumed he was Polish since there are so many Poles in the UK. But later when I got an email from him, I saw that he had a Russian name.

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## Deborski

Well, I'm American and I lived in Russia for two years and I can honestly say that I never, not even once, encountered someone who was rude or impatient with me when I spoke Russian.  Everyone was patient, no matter how much I butchered the language.  Russians are usually very understanding of foreigners - with the exception of some countries they have been at war with.  The situation may have been different for me if I was from the Caucasus for example. 
Americans seem a lot less tolerant of foreigners to me than Russians do.  I have seen Americans treat foreigners extremely rudely.  I would be a lot more afraid of coming to America and not speaking English or speaking poor English, than traveling to Russia and speaking limited Russian.  Truly!

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## Marcus

> You can't, really: All that we can hear is that it is a Slavic accent: Russian and Serbian accent sounds absolutely the same in English.

 They do not. For example, Russians devoice final consonants, while Serbs do not. There is vowel reduction in Russian but there isn't in Serbian. Serbs do not palatalize consonants before [i].  

> Some Russian vowels that are a bit like a mix of two different vowels (from my perspective).

 Do you mean they are pronounced like diphtongs? Or what? Could you give some examples?

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## Anneke

> Russians are usually very understanding of foreigners - with the exception of some countries they have been at war with.  The situation may have been different for me if I was from the Caucasus for example.

 No. There are many Caucasians in Russia, especially in Moscow. Many of them speak "limited Russian", and everybody understands them. They can learn at schools and institute and get work... One of my friends wanted to get a new work recently. He is a native Russian speaker, he owns a flat in Moscow... And he couldn't get this work because there were Caucasian workers who wanted to get this work too.

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## Marcus

> That depends on the point of view. If we consider all the former Ex-USSR republic as 'foreign' countries then yes, the situation has deteriorated rather dramatically, but if we only count the countries that were 'foreign' some 20 years ago then I think that the situation is the same.

 Of course it became much worse everywhere. Russian stopped being taught in many countries and the number of students of Russian has decreased many times since that.

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## Marcus

> with the exception of some countries they have been at war with.

 No. This doesn't matter at all.

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## mishau_

> They do not. For example, Russians devoice final consonants, while Serbs do not. There is vowel reduction in Russian but there isn't in Serbian. Serbs do not palatalize consonants before [i]. 
> Do you mean they are pronounced like diphtongs? Or what? Could you give some examples?

 For my ear this fake Russian sounds like a Bulgarian or in some phrases even like French. How this does this abracadabra sound for non-native Russian talkers?

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## gRomoZeka

Interesting.  ::  To me it sounds like a parody to Western Slavic languages - Czech or Polish. I would not guess that it's supposed to be Russian.

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## mishau_

Вот, кстати, классная лекция по фонетике русского языка. Очень интересно пародируются иностранные акценты (в частности американский). 
Я сам узнал много нового о фонетике русского языка. Не предполагал, что у нас два звука "р", а ведь так и есть.

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## Marcus

> классная лекция по фонетике русского языка

 Серьезно ее воспринимать нельзя. Естественно, что аллофоны не считают разными фонемами. Про благозвучие, неудивительно, что не хотят признавать. В английском, конечно, есть звук гласный как в дядя. Русский язык миллион вещей утратил.

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## it-ogo

Ну, субъективность тут - часть жанра. Чтобы повосхищаться чем-то, надо обязательно подчеркнуть уникальность - такой художественный прием. И сделал это он не очень красиво - за счет других. Сколько бишь там гласных звуков мог отчетливо произнести профессор Хиггинс? Сто тридцать? 
 Но в целом идея выступления мне близка. Обкрадывают нас - и фонетически, и лексически, и грамматически, и даже синтаксически. Хотя лингвисты в этом не виноваты. В школе учат сознательно упрощенному варианту, минимуму - просто чтобы до каждого дошло. А потом этот самый каждый решает, что познал истину в высшей инстанции и начинает агрессивно выступать за "грамотность," разумея под этим какой-то уродский выхолощенный канцелярит.  
А вот, кстати, в школе канцеляриту не учат. Это уже потом на рабочем месте. Типа занюханные бюрократы - большие начальники, хозяева жизни. Думай как они, говори как они, это - правильно и грамотно.

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## Marcus

Despite the fact that the man in the video says nonsense, it's worth listening how he pronounces рррррь - few Russians can do it. Americans, is he imitating your accent correctly?

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## mishau_

> Despite the fact that the man in the video says nonsense, it's worth listening how he pronounces рррррь - few Russians can do it. Americans, is he imitating your accent correctly?

 Whay exactly as you think is nonsense in his lecture? Which ideas concretly?

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## Hanna

It DOES sound like a parody of Slavic languages, possibly Russian, but the rolling Rs are  missing - that's a very obvious characteristic of Slavic langauges! 
 I can hear that  this is not a genuine language and that they are making it up.  
However, I can't tell the difference  between ANY Slavic languages other than Russian and Polish (and as of  lately, also Ukrainian and Belarussian.)  
I couldn't say whether someone was speaking Czech or Slovakian or Serbian, Slovenian or Bulgarian....  
I have learnt to recognize Romanian - not hard. But that is not really Slavic language, it just has some slavic words in it.  *
Can you Russian speakers differentiate between those langauges?* 
But pretty much all Western European languages are immediately recognizable, even if I don't speak them. A few small minority languages would be unrecognizable, but none of the national languages.

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## Marcus

> Can you Russian speakers differentiate between those langauges?

 I can. Czech and Slovak have very many stressed Rs and Ls - syllabic consonants. Bulgarian sounds similar to Russian (free stress, vowel reduction, palatalized consonats), Serbian I know a little. It depends whether you heard those languages much or not. Most Russians never listen to other Slavic languages, probably can recognize only Ukrainian and Belorussian.

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## Marcus

> but the rolling Rs are missing

 They are present. It sounds similar to Russian. The obvious wrong thing is that ш, ж are not hard enough, they are semi-soft.

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## Hanna

Oh yes, I just realised that this thread was started by none other than myself, a couple of years ago! I can answer my own question now, I think.   *Well, I can say now that for Ukrainians and Belarussians they are VERY nice and patient with people who speak poor Russian.* Particularly Ukrainians. Apart from three minor incidents, I had no problem at all travelling in this region and speaking only Russian with people. The three incidents were with officials. And my Russian is really appalling. My grammar is terrible. Everyone was kind and helpful, or neutral. Several people went to great lengths to help me.  
Try this approach in Paris and people will be ruder than you could ever imagine! People in Sweden would simply ignore somebody who speaks the language as poorly as I speak Russian.  
I think Russian "language snobbism" is directed more towards native  speakers, or maybe "nearly" native speakers. Clearly, educated Russians  are very proud of their language and do not like to see it abused or dumbed down. But they are not snobbish towards learners from other countries.

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## Hanna

> I can. Czech and Slovak have very many stressed Rs and Ls - syllabic consonants. Bulgarian sounds similar to Russian (free stress, vowel reduction, palatalized consonats), Serbian I know a little. It depends whether you heard those languages much or not. Most Russians never listen to other Slavic languages, probably can recognize only Ukrainian and Belorussian.

 I once knew a Bulgarian guy who could speak fluent Russian. I was extremely impressed by this at the time, and asked him lots of questions about it - how he had learnt etc. 
Remember him saying that Russians he knew in London usually didn't realise that he was from Bulgaria at all, but thought that he was a native Russian speaker. That seemed very strange to me - he had never actually lived in any Russian speaking country, only learnt it in school and apparently used it a bit at university and early in his career. Perhaps Bulgarian is so similar to Russian but I found this very odd. Was on a blind date with this guy and was just grasping for topics of conversation which was how this came up! Lol!

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## Marcus

> I once knew a Bulgarian guy who could speak fluent Russian. I was extremely impressed by this at the time, and asked him lots of questions about it - how he had learnt etc. 
> Remember him saying that Russians he knew in London usually didn't realise that he was from Bulgaria at all, but thought that he was a native Russian speaker. That seemed very strange to me - he had never actually lived in any Russian speaking country, only learnt it in school and apparently used it a bit at university and early in his career. Perhaps Bulgarian is so similar to Russian but I found this very odd. Was on a blind date with this guy and was just grasping for topics of conversation which was how this came up! Lol!

 That might individual, some people are good at accent, worked on it a lot. There was a girl at my grade in the university, a Bulgarian, and she has  certain accent. She does not soften some consonants (like м in книгами), she reduces all the unstressed As to schwas (хъръшо while we say хърашо), ш and ж are a little bit softened, ы is not clear. 
My brother's girlfriend is Bulgarian, she speaks accentless Russian, but she probably lived in Russia for a long time.

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## mishau_

Когда поляки говорят по-русски они перевирают все ударения, и из-за этого становится трудно понять о чем речь. У нас учитель был поляк, ух это было нечто (и мы подшучивали над его смешными грамматическими оборотами).

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## CoffeeCup

> Когда поляки говорят по-русски они перевирают все ударения, и из-за этого становится трудно понять о чем речь. У нас учитель был поляк, ух это было нечто (и мы подшучивали над его смешными грамматическими оборотами).

 Вчера видел по ТВ интервью с каким-то режиссером и Валерием Золотухиным первые две-три минуты я думал что это говорит русский, только потом я услышал неслько слов употребленных не совсем точно и посмотрел на титры, когда и понял что это не русский а поляк Кшиштоф Занусси.

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## Lampada

Мой бывший муж, болгарин, никогда не был в России, но в Болгарии много читал по-русски и со мной быстро заговорил по-русски - и так чисто, что русскоязычные думали, что он русский. Только удивлялись, когда он предствлял себя: "Славко".

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## Marcus

Фонетика болгарского похожа на русскую, чего не скажешь  чего не скажешь о чешской, например.

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## Lampada

> Фонетика болгарского похожа на русскую, чего не скажешь чего не скажешь о чешской, например.

 Моя знакомая американка, которая неплохо говорила по-русски, начала учить чешский. В Праге она не могла понять, почему местные с ней были очень неприветливы. Потом выяснилось почему: она говорила по-чешски с русским акцентом.
Правда было это поколение тому назад.

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## Marcus

> Потом выяснилось почему: она говорила по-чешски с русским акцентом.

 То есть по мнению тогдашних чехов, русский был виноват по-любому, даже если он учил чешский язык, был против вторжения и т. д.
Во вторжении участвовали войска нескольких стран и нерусских там было очень много.
Сейчас в Чехии нормально к русскому языку относятся.

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## Hanna

Marcus is somthing of a Russian language snob, I think.....  :: 
One should mind one's ps and qs in any statement in front of him, I think!! 
I have been corrected several times by Marcus when nobody else bothered.

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## Anixx

> --How often do you meet foreigners who do not speak good Russian?

 Often, but mostly from ex-USSR. Others include Chinese and sometimes negros (if you see a negro, most likely he speaks bad Russian  ::   

> --Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?

 Yes, there are such examples.  

> --What would you think if you worked with someone who was not Russian and made lots of mistakes when he spoke and wrote in Russian?

 Usually the Caucasus accent is perceived very negatively. Peoples from the Caucasus have very heavy accent and never can get rid of it,
even if they lived in Russia for a long time. For example, Stalin spoke with a very heavy accent although he spent most of his life in Russia.   

> --Can Baltic people usually speak good Russian or not? I have noticed that they always mention "native fluency in Russian" on their CV/Resume.

 15 years ago most of them did. I do not know how it is now, but they generally have very light accent that disappears as the speaker progresses.   

> --What about the Central Asian people who work in Russia - what are their Russian skills generally like?

 It depends. Kyrgiz and Kazakh people usually speak better Russian; Uzbeks, Turkmens, Tajiks usually speak worse.   

> --What about Westerners - how often do you meet somebody who can actually speak Russian well?

 Rarely.    

> --Are there any nationalities (not ex Soviet) who always impress you with their skills in Russian?

 No    

> --What foreign accents sound good/bad/cool....?

 As I already said the worst accent is usually that of Caucasians, especially of South Caucasians. This is not comparable with anything.

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## Hanna

Thanks for the responses, Anixx! 
If anyone has the time, could you post a video of somebody speaking Russian with a strong Caucasian accent? Not a parody, but a a real person... 
And as for Stalin, if this accent is percieved very negatively, how was he able to gain people's respect, and become the leader? Doesn't it make him sound stupid or uneducated when he speaks?  I mean many Russians (but certainly not all, I know!) have very high views of him, even today.

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## it-ogo

> Thanks for the responses, Anixx! 
> If anyone has the time, could you post a video of somebody speaking Russian with a strong Caucasian accent? Not a parody, but a a real person... 
> And as for Stalin, if this accent is percieved very negatively, how was he able to gain people's respect, and become the leader? Doesn't it make him sound stupid or uneducated when he speaks?  I mean many Russians (but certainly not all, I know!) have very high views of him, even today.

 I think, negative impression of Caucasian accent is more of personal opinion of Anixx or the result of contemporary conflicts with north Caucasian ethnicities. Maybe even local Moscow trend. It was definitely not the widespread phenomenon in USSR and it is not widespread in Ukraine. 
Second, there are many rather different peoples in Caucasus and accents can be different enough (though with some common features). The most prominent "Caucasian" accent win USSR was considered Georgian. It is often funny but hardly weird. Stupid - no. Uneducated - i do not think. At least if the accent is not too heavy.

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## Marcus

> Marcus is somthing of a Russian language snob, I think..... 
> One should mind one's ps and qs in any statement in front of him, I think!! 
> I have been corrected several times by Marcus when nobody else bothered.

 What is ps and qs?
Actually you have asked for corrections -  "Пожалуйста, исправьте мои ошибки!". I'm not a snob, but I'm interested in Russian language. I'm not against being corrected myself at all.
And this site is for learning Russian, isn't it?

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## Marcus

> I think, negative impression of Caucasian accent is more of personal opinion of Anixx or the result of contemporary conflicts with north Caucasian ethnicities. Maybe even local Moscow trend. It was definitely not the widespread phenomenon in USSR and it is not widespread in Ukraine. 
> Second, there are many rather different peoples in Caucasus and accents can be different enough (though with some common features). The most prominent "Caucasian" accent win USSR was considered Georgian. It is often funny but hardly weird. Stupid - no. Uneducated - i do not think. At least if the accent is not too heavy.

 Yes. There is no any Caucasian accent: there are many unrelated languages there. The Georgian accent is the most famous, but I don't think we have any bias against it. Stalin's speech was not his strongest position and he rarelly spoke publicly.

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## Hanna

> What is ps and qs?
> Actually you have asked for corrections -  "Пожалуйста, исправьте мои ошибки!". I'm not a snob, but I'm interested in Russian language. I'm not against being corrected myself at all.
> And this site is for learning Russian, isn't it?

 Sorry, you misunderstood me, I was joking! It was a silly joke though, since you got annoyed. Sorry!  ::  
 But you are VERY interested in linguistics and language related matters, aren't you? Most of the time, I can't follow what you write about linguistics, even in English... I just don't know all that terminology. It must be very specialised.  
Minding ps and qs means speaking properly, behaving properly. Not making grammatical mistakes or speaking slang.

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## Anixx

> Doesn't it make him sound stupid or uneducated when he speaks?  I mean many Russians (but certainly not all, I know!) have very high views of him, even today.

 I think this allowed him to appeal to the feelings of non-Russians. Like if he said "look I am also not Russian, if I want something done, it is not for the Russian imperialism, it is for us all who lives in the USSR".

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## Seraph

> What is ps and qs?...

  'Ps and qs' originally comes from English pubs.  It comes from "mind your ps and qs" => mind your pints and quarts. 
Something like pay attention to your bar bill, the account at the pub. Ps and qs (pints and quarts) is the tabulation of outstanding drinks not payed for, for a particular patron.  Pints and quarts of beer, ale etc.  Means be upstanding, fully accounted for, responsible.

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## Hanna

> I think this allowed him to appeal to the feelings of non-Russians. Like if he said "look I am also not Russian, if I want something done, it is not for the Russian imperialism, it is for us all who lives in the USSR".

 Interesting response! Thanks!

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## LXNDR

> 'Ps and qs' originally comes from English pubs.  It comes from "mind your ps and qs" => mind your pints and quarts. 
> Something like pay attention to your bar bill, the account at the pub. Ps and qs (pints and quarts) is the tabulation of outstanding drinks not payed for, for a particular patron.  Pints and quarts of beer, ale etc.  Means be upstanding, fully accounted for, responsible.

 there's a host of other explanations on the WIKI  Mind your Ps and Qs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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