# Forum General General Discussion  Living Conditions

## love.angel

I'm sorry to sound ignorant, but what exactly is the reason of people from Europe wanting to immigrate to Canada/USA? 
Is life there really that bad?  
I'm just looking for some serious answers. 
For example, I feel safe where I live. Occassionally if I am downtown, I have to keep a sharp eye out around me because of "gangsters" (the random/drive-by shootings just keep happening more often lately), however, if I am around my neighbourhood away from the city, I feel safe.  
Do you not feel safe in the country where you live? Is it hard to find jobs? Is it hard to find a place to live? Are there wide-spread diseases? 
Just wondering...

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## basurero

"Водка холоднее у соседа" - Kalinka_vinnie  ::   
Ситуация в моей стране отличается от ситуации в России, но в Новой Зеландии много людей переезжают в Австралию, Европу или Северную Америку потому что там можно получать лучшую зарплату. Также, жить здесь очень скучно. В Австралии намного интереснее!   ::

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## love.angel

> "Водка холоднее у соседа" - Kalinka_vinnie  
> Ситуация в моей стране отличается от ситуации в России, но в Новой Зеландии много людей переезжают в Австралию, Европу или Северную Америку потому что там можно получать лучшую зарплату. Также, жить здесь очень скучно. В Австралии намного интереснее!

 Why would you say that one place is more interesting than another? What makes a place interesting to you?

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## basurero

Ну, конечно, все зависит от себя!

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## kalinka_vinnie

> I'm sorry to sound ignorant, but what exactly is the reason of people from Europe wanting to immigrate to Canada/USA? 
> Is life there really that bad?  
> I'm just looking for some serious answers. 
> For example, I feel safe where I live. Occassionally if I am downtown, I have to keep a sharp eye out around me because of "gangsters" (the random/drive-by shootings just keep happening more often lately), however, if I am around my neighbourhood away from the city, I feel safe.  
> Do you not feel safe in the country where you live? Is it hard to find jobs? Is it hard to find a place to live? Are there wide-spread diseases? 
> Just wondering...

 нет, жизнь в Европе намного лучше чем жизнь в США, но это зависит от человека. Если человек любит денег и хочет много зарабатывать, лучше в США. И ещё в США, если ты расследователь или инженер, есть больше возможнестей. Для бедных, думаю что есть такая идея, что в США легчше стать богатым (но они не понимают, что придется очень много работать за этого)... А кроме этого, не думаю что так многых европецев хотят в США попасть... не знаю.

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## Dimitri

> И ещё в США, если ты расследователь

 расследователь - такого нету )) есть - следователь. (investigator?)

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## Dimitri

> what exactly is the reason of people from Europe wanting to immigrate to Canada/USA?

 я не хочу, лично   ::

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## adoc

> И ещё в США, если ты расследователь
> 			
> 		  расследователь - такого нету )) есть - следователь. (investigator?)

 That's criminal investigator, a detective.  What KV meant is исследователь (researcher).

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## adoc

> Do you not feel safe in the country where you live? Is it hard to find jobs? Is it hard to find a place to live? Are there wide-spread diseases? 
> Just wondering...

 If you are referring to, let's say, Russia, than it's mostly for a job.  Overall the society is more peaceful and reasonable too. If you have a god job in a well-to-do western european country and speak their language, then it's certainly better to live over there.  Except that Canada and Australia encourage professional immigration, while USA and particularly Europe do not.

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## love.angel

> If you are referring to, let's say, Russia, than it's mostly for a job.  Overall the society is more peaceful and reasonable too. If you have a god job in a well-to-do western european country and speak their language, then it's certainly better to live over there.  Except that Canada and Australia encourage professional immigration, while USA and particularly Europe do not.

 What do you mean by "professional immigration"?

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## adoc

> What do you mean by "professional immigration"?

 This: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/index.html 
The program, aka "independent immigration", only exists in Canada and Australia.  In the US and Europe one has to go through a back door, be supported by companies that they work for, etc., virtually making them slaves of their bosses, giving no freedom in choosing their profession and employers etc. Immigration to Europe is particularly difficult, while in the US the monetary reward for the same input is better and there are more jobs, hence the USA, Australia and Canada are popular choices.

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## TATY

Europe is a big place. People tend to immigrate TO Western Europe, and not emmigrate from it. 
One reason poeple leave Western Europe is an influx of immigrants. Here in the UK, people either leave to go to places with better weather, or just places that offer more exciting oppurtunites, like Australia. 
You are over generalising. You are talking about Eastern Europeans, particularly Russians, Ukrainians, Poles etc. who leave their countries to go to USA/Canada, Western Europe. Money. These places either have a low supply of jobs or badly paid jobs, so they move to other countries where people are looking for cheap workers. A very large proportion of construction workers in London are from Eastern Europe. You will often here Russian spoken when you walk past building sites, since as well as there being Russians, Estonians and Latvians, for example will talk to each other in Russian.

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## love.angel

> You are over generalising. You are talking about Eastern Europeans, particularly Russians, Ukrainians, Poles etc. who leave their countries to go to USA/Canada, Western Europe. Money. These places either have a low supply of jobs or badly paid jobs, so they move to other countries where people are looking for cheap workers. A very large proportion of construction workers in London are from Eastern Europe. You will often here Russian spoken when you walk past building sites, since as well as there being Russians, Estonians and Latvians, for example will talk to each other in Russian.

 You are right. However, I think I hear more Chinese here than anything else. And the Middle Eastern population is building up as well. When my grandparents came here from Italy 30/40 Years ago it was Italians who were the "new" ones. However, what I don't understand is that my grandparents came, but some of their family members (aunts, cousins, etc) stayed in Italy. I'm sure they lived all in the same place and the same goes for many Italian families living here. 
I don't think they came here for money because my grandparents came in debt. They did not have an education because in Italy they worked in the fields-- and they left school when they were 9 or 10 years old. 
It's hard for me to ask them, however, because there is a slight language barrier between us.

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## Leof

Lisa, to answer your question you simply have to be born in Eastern Europe and live here untill your twenty fourth Birthday.

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## Бармалей

> what exactly is the reason of people from Europe wanting to immigrate to Canada/USA? 
> 			
> 		  я не хочу, лично

 Вот доказательство! Дмитри = В. Гусинский!!!   :: 
(вопрос: я хотел сказать "smoking gun" -- есть такой термин по-русски?)   

> I don't think they came here for money because my grandparents came in debt. They did not have an education because in Italy they worked in the fields-- and they left school when they were 9 or 10 years old.
> It's hard for me to ask them, however, because there is a slight language barrier between us.

 Не знаю особенную ситуацию ваших деда и бабушки, но долг не значит, что они оставались в Италии -- наоборот, наверное вероятнее, что они хотели переезжать куда-нибудь, чтобы сделать лучше жизнь, да? Наверное просто жизненные условия и возможности были лучше в Канаде тогда...

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by TATY  You are over generalising. You are talking about Eastern Europeans, particularly Russians, Ukrainians, Poles etc. who leave their countries to go to USA/Canada, Western Europe. Money. These places either have a low supply of jobs or badly paid jobs, so they move to other countries where people are looking for cheap workers. A very large proportion of construction workers in London are from Eastern Europe. You will often here Russian spoken when you walk past building sites, since as well as there being Russians, Estonians and Latvians, for example will talk to each other in Russian.   You are right. However, I think I hear more Chinese here than anything else. And the Middle Eastern population is building up as well. When my grandparents came here from Italy 30/40 Years ago it was Italians who were the "new" ones. However, what I don't understand is that my grandparents came, but some of their family members (aunts, cousins, etc) stayed in Italy. I'm sure they lived all in the same place and the same goes for many Italian families living here. 
> I don't think they came here for money because my grandparents came in debt. They did not have an education because in Italy they worked in the fields-- and they left school when they were 9 or 10 years old. 
> It's hard for me to ask them, however, because there is a slight language barrier between us.

 It depends about the social conditions in the countries at the time. Like there was mass emigration from (Western) Ukraine to other countries, mostly to Canada and the USA. I'm sure as a Canadian, you are aware of the large Ukrainian community, esp. in Toronto. I believe in the 20th century Brits mainly went to Australia, New Zealand, or Canada (more so than the US), probably becuase these are Commonwealth countries and therefore easy for us to move to. 
I have a question for you love.angel. What is your view on the monarchy. Do you think Canada should be a republic, or remain as it is now with Queen Elizabeth as the Queen of Canada. If I was Canadian, I wouldn't really want some old crankey English biatch who lives thousands of miles away to be my head of state. Yes she has no power, but officially she is the Canadian head of state.

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## love.angel

> It depends about the social conditions in the countries at the time. Like there was mass emigration from (Western) Ukraine to other countries, mostly to Canada and the USA. I'm sure as a Canadian, you are aware of the large Ukrainian community, esp. in Toronto. I believe in the 20th century Brits mainly went to Australia, New Zealand, or Canada (more so than the US), probably becuase these are Commonwealth countries and therefore easy for us to move to. 
> I have a question for you love.angel. What is your view on the monarchy. Do you think Canada should be a republic, or remain as it is now with Queen Elizabeth as the Queen of Canada. If I was Canadian, I wouldn't really want some old crankey English biatch who lives thousands of miles away to be my head of state. Yes she has no power, but officially she is the Canadian head of state.

 It's funny how much goes in around where I live that I do not know about. I never knew about this whole Russian/Ukrainian community until recently. I specifically live outside of Toronto, so in my town there are not many Russians/Ukrainians. There were only about 5 people in my high school that would speak Russian to each other-- everyone else I assume was born here (but of Russian background). 
However, when I started dating my boyfriend and he is from Ukraine, we went to return some movies for his dad at this Russian movie store, and there were so many Russian places around there! I had never seen that. Basically in Toronto (as you may have heard), there are specific districts where mostly everyone of one nationality lives. There is "Little Italy", "Little Greece".. etc (that is what people here actually call them).  
As for the Queen Elizabeth thing-- I recently turned 18 so was just able to vote in the last election. Before then, I never paid much attention to politics because it did not interest me. Therefore, I do not have some strong opinion about this situation. However, I did learn in Gr. 10 (like you said) that the Queen does not have any power anyway. It's just a "title" because we are literally still part of the monarchy. I would rather Canada have some connections to other countries because I've heard we don't have the strongest army. If terrorism decides to attack us next, we need some back up.

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## Бармалей

> As for the Queen Elizabeth thing-- I recently turned 18 so was just able to vote in the last election. Before then, I never paid much attention to politics because it did not interest me. Therefore, I do not have some strong opinion about this situation. However, I did learn in Gr. 10 (like you said) that the Queen does not have any power anyway. It's just a "title" because we are literally still part of the monarchy. I would rather Canada have some connections to other countries because I've heard we don't have the strongest army. If terrorism decides to attack us next, we need some back up.

 Try googling the term "Doukhobor;" they're a Russian sect that has a sizable contigent in Canada -- they sort of remind me of Russian quakers... 
And, just to offer a completely unsolicited and pompous opinion, I think the whole queen bit is a load of crap. What the hell has British monarchy done for anybody that's truly beneficial in the past 50 years? Canadians unite; overthrow your imperialist oppressor!   ::  And as far as defense (or defence if you prefer   ::  ) goes, I don't think that having the queen is going to make you or break you. There's always been, and likely will be for a long time to come, a positive relationship amongst the Commonwealth, right? And besides, there's always that whole NATO thing... and Anne Murray/ Brian Boitano hitting clean-up.

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## love.angel

> Try googling the term "Doukhobor;" they're a Russian sect that has a sizable contigent in Canada -- they sort of remind me of Russian quakers... 
> And, just to offer a completely unsolicited and pompous opinion, I think the whole queen bit is a load of cr@p. What the hell has British monarchy done for anybody that's truly beneficial in the past 50 years? Canadians unite; overthrow your imperialist oppressor!   And as far as defense (or defence if you prefer   ) goes, I don't think that having the queen is going to make you or break you. There's always been, and likely will be for a long time to come, a positive relationship amongst the Commonwealth, right? And besides, there's always that whole NATO thing... and Anne Murray/ Brian Boitano hitting clean-up.

 I have heard of Doukhobor before, now that you mention it. However, it was a few years ago. 
I'm still scared for my country. People here like to joke about terrorism because it has never happened to us-- I am disgusted by people like that. I can't even imagine what we will do if something happens. If anything does happen, it will either happen in Toronto or Ottawa, so I'd like to think that we will receive some form of help. If the government decided to "kick out" Queen Elizabeth, I don't think Britain would be very happy. 
That's just my opinion.

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## love.angel

It seems as though I will be leaving the forum because it's too addictive and I don't have the time right now to learn Russian in between all of my mathematical calculations.  
I'll be back in a year or more when I take the Russian course at University.  ::  See you then, probably with a different username though, because I assume mine will get deleted when it is unactive for a long period of time.  
Thanks to all that helped me!: Dimitri, Rtyom, TATY, Barmaley, basurero... and others.  
Ok... this was just so that everyone knows and nobody asks me another question on this thread because I will not be back to reply to it.  
Paka! Da-sveedanya! (Russian keyboard doesn't work on my school computer).   ::

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## Rtyom

Come back as soon as you can!   ::   ::

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## Бармалей

Wow. That was quick. Didn't know it'd freak someone out that much, that soon!   ::

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## Rtyom

> Wow. That was quick. Didn't know it'd freak someone out that much, that soon!

 Don't get it in your head.

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## Бармалей

> Originally Posted by Barmaley  Wow. That was quick. Didn't know it'd freak someone out that much, that soon!     Don't get it in your head.

 What, Lisa/love.angel or the thought of quitting?!?!

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## Rtyom

Is Lisa/love.angel "it"?

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## Seventh-Monkey

> Originally Posted by Barmaley  Wow. That was quick. Didn't know it'd freak someone out that much, that soon!     Don't get it in your head.

 Hee hee. I'd be lying if I said I understood that.

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## Rtyom

Frankly speaking, I have already forgotten the initial thought myself.

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## Seventh-Monkey

"Frankly speaking," is a little long-winded. I'd go with just "to be honest," or "frankly,"

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## BladeStuckin

> Wow. That was quick.  I Didn't know (I would) I'd freak someone out that much, that soon!

   ::

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## Бармалей

> Originally Posted by Barmaley  Wow. That was quick.  I Didn't know (I would) I'd freak someone out that much, that soon!

 No, it's fine. Really. It makes perfect sense. I was referring to "russian" freaking her out, not myself.

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## BladeStuckin

> No, it's fine. Really. It makes perfect sense. I was referring to "russian" freaking her out, not myself.

 ahh, I understand now.    ::

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## adoc

I thought only Russians teach other Russians how to speak "kirect" English.

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## Бармалей

> I thought only Russians teach other Russians how to speak "kirect" English.

   ::

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## adoc

Gawd.  That's why people kill each other, they just cant understand what the other person is saying.  "Wha? Just shoot the muther..."  F-r-r-r-r-r-t. Done

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## Бармалей

> Gawd.  That's why people kill each other, they just cant understand what the other person is saying.  "Wha? Just kill the muther..."  F-r-r-r-r-r-t. Done

 LOL. Thank you for a basically incoherent rant. I will now kill _you_. Tallyho!!!!!!!!!!!  ::

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## adoc

Well I love that.  I love being incoherent.

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## basurero

> "Frankly speaking," is a little long-winded. I'd go with just "to be honest," or "frankly,"

 Это зависит от ситуации... в обиходных ситуациях, лучше использовать "to be honest, frankly," однако, сказать "frankly speaking" звучит умнее.

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## Indra

to be honest, frankly - это полные синонимы или между ними есть какое-то смысловое различие?

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## Бармалей

> to be honest, frankly - это полные синонимы или между ними есть какое-то смысловое различие?

 По-моему, полные синонимы. По-английски можно сказать "to be frank" -- это значит просто "быть честным." Поэтому, все нормально и та же мысль:
To be frank, I'm not hungry.
Frankly, I just don't have an appetite.
To be honest, I just ate, so I'm not ready for lunch.
Honestly, I don't want anything to eat! 
А конечно, самый известный пример словы "frankly": Рэт Ватлер: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!"   ::

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## TATY

> It seems as though I will be leaving the forum because it's too addictive and I don't have the time right now to learn Russian in between all of my mathematical calculations.  
> I'll be back in a year or more when I take the Russian course at University.  See you then, probably with a different username though, because I assume mine will get deleted when it is unactive for a long period of time.  
> Thanks to all that helped me!: Dimitri, Rtyom, TATY, Barmaley, basurero... and others.  
> Ok... this was just so that everyone knows and nobody asks me another question on this thread because I will not be back to reply to it.  
> Paka! Da-sveedanya! (Russian keyboard doesn't work on my school computer).

 The Queen will be expecting it to happen sooner or later. Also America would look out for Canada of course. 
I read on Wiki than the public opinion in Canada is about 50/50 on the monarchy, slighty more towards the abolition side.  
A lot of countries have ceremonial head's of state though:
Germany has a president who is ceremonial. The Chancellor actually does stuff.
Israel has a ceremonial president. The Prime Minister actually does stuff.
Hungary has a ceremonial President. The Prime Miniters actually does stuff.
The UK has a Queen. The Prime Minister actually does stuff. 
The thing is about Canada is it has the Queen who is ceremonial, then the Governer who is ceremonial, then the Prime Minister, who actually does stuff. I believe the same applies to Australia.

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## Seventh-Monkey

I don't think many young people even know that Canada is overseen by the Queen. I didn't before I read this, and I'm more knowledgable than most.

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## basurero

Я не против монархии, я только против текущей королевы. Если бы только у нас было прикольная королева, а не старая корова.... также она убийца, то есть, она приказала убийство Дианы..   ::

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## TATY

> I don't think many young people even know that Canada is overseen by the Queen. I didn't before I read this, and I'm more knowledgable than most.

 You obviously aren't.

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## TATY

> Я не против монархии, я только против текущей королевы. Если бы только у нас было прикольная королева, а не старая корова.... также она убийца, то есть, она приказала убийство Дианы..

 Diana was a waste of space. Ooh look at me clearing a mine field! Shut up you pointless bint, like they'd let you anywhere near a mine field if there was even a remote chance of their being a live mine there. They probably sent kids running through the field the night before to clear the mines.

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## Seventh-Monkey

Kudos for using the word "bint".

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## basurero

> Kudos for using the word "bint".

 Лол! Это не начальная школа!   ::

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## Seventh-Monkey

> Originally Posted by Seventh-Monkey  Kudos for using the word "bint".   Лол! Это не начальная школа!

 Were you commenting on the subject matter or the obscure word?

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## Бармалей

> Diana was a waste of space. Ooh look at me clearing a mine field! Shut up you pointless bint, like they'd let you anywhere near a mine field if there was even a remote chance of their being a live mine there. They probably sent kids running through the field the night before to clear the mines.

   ::   ::   ::   ::  
I can't believe you said that! All that was missing was a slam about her affection for concrete objects at high speeds. It's so tacky, rude, cheap, vicious -- and frighteningly funny.   ::   ::   ::  Also, yes, I'll second the motion for granting you accolades for using "bint." Bint...bint...bint...bint!!!

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## TATY

I'm just fed up about hearing bout the cow all the time. Woman here still go on about her. My mother was talking about her the last time I bothered to go home.

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## Friendy

> I don't think many young people even know that Canada is overseen by the Queen. I didn't before I read this...

 Same here. Now I wonder if part of their taxes goes to the British monarchy.

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by Seventh-Monkey  I don't think many young people even know that Canada is overseen by the Queen. I didn't before I read this...   Same here. Now I wonder if part of their taxes goes to the British monarchy.

 I don't think it does. I think we Brits have that honour. I've been reading the Canadian reublicans' arguements for a Canadian Republic, and they never mention paying for the Monarchy, which if they had to, they would definately mention.

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## Friendy

Oh, I see. Thank you, TATY.

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## TATY

> Oh, I see. Thank you, TATY.

 I read the amount of funds UK tax payers pay for the Monarchy is about

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## Бармалей

> Originally Posted by Friendy        Originally Posted by Seventh-Monkey  I don't think many young people even know that Canada is overseen by the Queen. I didn't before I read this...   Same here. Now I wonder if part of their taxes goes to the British monarchy.   I don't think it does. I think we Brits have that honour. I've been reading the Canadian reublicans' arguements for a Canadian Republic, and they never mention paying for the Monarchy, which if they had to, they would definately mention.

 Which just perfectly illustrates what a complete and utter sham the whole thing is -- there's no benefit for anyone. Truly, if I say right here on the MR forums that "I am hereby Grand Imperial Overlord and Almighty Tsar of Canada" it carries precisely the same amount of actual merit.

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## BladeStuckin

> "I am hereby Grand Imperial Overlord and Almighty Tsar of Canada"

 All hail the mighty Barmaley.   ::

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## kalinka_vinnie

::  
Barmaley!  ::  
You are just one step below Dimitry - our God!  ::

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## Бармалей

Hooray for the Igloo Revolution that has brought me to power! As my first act in office, I will now do absolutely nothing!

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## Seventh-Monkey

Igloo? What kind of lame colour is that, y'tasteless dolt? :P 
I mean... tasteless overlord.

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## Бармалей

> Igloo? What kind of lame colour is that, y'tasteless dolt? :P 
> I mean... tasteless overlord.

 For your insolence, I have revoked your right to the title of "Chief Ape of Jolly Ole England." Actually, I don't know if you ever had that title; but if you did I would open up a can of Canadian Imperialism and take it from you by brute force!

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## Kimberloo

I think the worst part of the Queen being involved with Canada is that every year they air her yearly formal address on Christmas day on like FIVE stations....AAAAAARG she talks so slooooooooowly...she makes our snow melt and refreeze itself for fun.

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## Rtyom

You can just switch your radio off, can't you?

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## Seventh-Monkey

> Originally Posted by Seventh-Monkey  Igloo? What kind of lame colour is that, y'tasteless dolt? :P 
> I mean... tasteless overlord.   For your insolence, I have revoked your right to the title of "Chief Ape of Jolly Ole England." Actually, I don't know if you ever had that title; but if you did I would open up a can of Canadian Imperialism and take it from you by brute force!

 Canadian imperialism?   ::

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## Kimberloo

> You can just switch your radio off, can't you?

 Haha, yes indeed...but my grandparents feel some duty to watch her or something..it's on TV :P

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## Rtyom

Switch off your g-parents.   ::   ::

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## Бармалей

Assassinate the queen.   ::   :: 
(and no, don't take that seriously)

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## Rtyom

> (and no, don't take that seriously)

 Grandparents or the queen?

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## Бармалей

> Originally Posted by Barmaley  (and no, don't take that seriously)   Grandparents or the queen?

 Well, both of them, presumably. I a) don't want any regicide or b)James Bond knocking at my door   ::

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## adoc

> Originally Posted by Seventh-Monkey  I don't think many young people even know that Canada is overseen by the Queen. I didn't before I read this...   Same here. Now I wonder if part of their taxes goes to the British monarchy.

 In a small way they do, in a form of paying for expensive habits of this chick: http://www.gg.ca/media/pho/index_e.asp?GalleryID=202

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## Seventh-Monkey

> Originally Posted by Friendy        Originally Posted by Seventh-Monkey  I don't think many young people even know that Canada is overseen by the Queen. I didn't before I read this...   Same here. Now I wonder if part of their taxes goes to the British monarchy.   In a small way they do, in a form of paying for expensive habits of this chick: http://www.gg.ca/media/pho/index_e.asp?GalleryID=202

 Uh, what does she have to do with Ol' Blighty? 
The eyes of a killer.  Have I Got News For You reference.

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## adoc

http://www.gg.ca/gg/rr/index_e.asp

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## Бармалей

She's a Killer Queen
Gunpowder, gelatine
Dynamite with a laser beam
Guaranteed to blow your mind
Anytime

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