# Forum Other Languages Slavic languages Ukrainian  Learning Ukrainian at the same time as Russian

## basurero

Ukrainian really interests me, but I don't think it'd be a good idea to study it at the same time as Russian because they're pretty similar langugaeges, or maybe I should wait till I've got a really strong base in Russian. What do you think? Have any of you learnt the two simultaneously? Did you get mixed up?

----------


## синичка

I first started learning Ukrainian, and a little bit less than two years later I started with Russian, so I already had quite a good base of Ukrainian by then. I don't really have problems mixing them up, but it does happen of course that I know how to say something in one language but not in the other. But then I usually realize what language it is that I know how to say it in. For me the fact that they are similar has only been an advantage, because it makes the second language easier to learn.

----------


## TATY

Maybe it's best you get a good basing in Russian first, then try Ukrainian.

----------


## basurero

Hmm yeah I think your right - it would be best to wait a while before starting Ukranian to make sure the Russian stays in my head. By the way, is Ukranian really easy to learn if you have already learnt Russian or already understand Russian grammar and stuff?

----------


## TATY

> Hmm yeah I think your right - it would be best to wait a while before starting Ukranian to make sure the Russian stays in my head. By the way, is Ukranian really easy to learn if you have already learnt Russian or already understand Russian grammar and stuff?

 Yes it is is very easy once you know Russian grammar. 
I knew most Russian grammar before starting Ukrainian, which made it easy as it's almost always the same. 
The biggest thing that gets me is that in Russian you use the genitive singular after 2-4, but in Ukrainian you use the nominitive plural. 
I always say stuff like *Чотири стола* (gen. sig. as in Russian) when it should be *Чотири столи* (nom. plu) 
But things like verbs work pretty much the same, aspect is pretty much the same, verbs conjugate similarly: 
Rus. - Знать 
Я знаю
Ты знаешь
Он знает
Мы знаем
Вы знаете
Они знают 
Ukr. - Знати 
Я знаю
Ти знаєш
Він знає
Ми знаємо
Ви знаєте
Вони знають 
Ukrainian pronunciation is easier and sounds nicer (IMHO), since there is much less palatilisation of consonants.

----------


## basurero

What about the vocabulary and the are the declinsions - are there lots of exceptions?  
It seems to me it would be hard to keep from mixing up all the similar words, that's what happened to me once when I tried to learn italian after learning spanish, and ukrainian and russian are a lot more similar.

----------


## TATY

> What about the vocabulary and the are the declinsions - are there lots of exceptions?  
> It seems to me it would be hard to keep from mixing up all the similar words, that's what happened to me once when I tried to learn italian after learning spanish, and ukrainian and russian are a lot more similar.

 Vocabularly is heavily West Slavonic influenced (from Poland), but for the most part the vocab is comparable with Russian. Where you find an O in Russian you often find an i in Ukrainian: 
ніч - night (Rus. ночь)
під - under (под)
вікно - window (окно) 
However there is this thing in Ukrainian, an *i/o* alteration (*ї/є*) if soft. 
If an I is in the last syllable of a word and you add an ending, it often becomes O.
And if Ї [yi] comes in the last syllable of a word, and you add an ending it often becomes Є [ye]. 
Thus 
ніч - night
ночи - nights 
стіл - table
столи - tables 
Київ - Kyiv (Kiev)
У Києві - in Kyiv  
Львів - L'viv (L'vov in Russian), City in Western Ukraine
У Львові - in L'viv  
There are seven cases: Nom, Gen, Dat., Accus, Inst., Prep., and Vocative.
The vocative is the case used when addressing someone or something directly. 
E.g. if you say in English *Anna, how are you?* 
Nominative of Anna is *Анна*
Анн*о*, як справи? 
Анн*о* is the vocative of Анна. 
Other than that the cases are pretty much the same. Just some differences in formation.

----------


## basurero

Awesome, thanks for the info Taty  ::

----------


## Remyisme

> Ukrainian pronunciation is easier and sounds nicer (IMHO), since there is much less palatilisation of consonants.

 There r alot of people that hate Ukrainian and find it hard.

----------


## Бармалей

Good stuff, TATY. How do you prounce Нiч? Like Нич in Russian? And that flipped э is awesome looking...

----------


## Бармалей

> Ukrainian pronunciation is easier and sounds nicer (IMHO), since there is much less palatilisation of consonants.
> 			
> 		  There r alot of people that hate Ukrainian and find it hard.

 There are a lot of people that hate English and find it hard.
There are a lot of people that hate Polish and find it hard.
There are a lot of people that hate Mandarin and find it hard.
There are a lot of people that hate Nowegian and find it hard.
There are a lot of people that hate Klingon and find it hard.
Shall I continue, or have I made my point?

----------


## basurero

Everybody hates Klingon because it's retarded and screwed up.

----------


## TATY

> Ukrainian pronunciation is easier and sounds nicer (IMHO), since there is much less palatilisation of consonants.
> 			
> 		  There r alot of people that hate Ukrainian and find it hard.

 From an English speaking learner's point of view, Ukrainian pronunciation is easier than Russian pronunciation. 
IMHO = in my honest OPINION.

----------


## TATY

> Good stuff, TATY. How do you prounce Нiч? Like Нич in Russian? And that flipped э is awesome looking...

 Yes it would be Нич in Russian.

----------


## Бармалей

> Everybody hates Klingon because it's retarded and screwed up.

 Ah, so Basusero fails the geek test! Anyone else want to prove they're a geek and have studied the Kligon language before?   ::

----------


## basurero

Клингон - преступление. Если я был богом, я бы отказал народу в изучении этого чертового глупого языка.   ::

----------


## Dimitri

> Клингон - преступление. Если бы я был богом, я бы отказал народу в изучении этого чертового глупого языка.

----------


## Remyisme

> Originally Posted by Remyisme     
> 			
> 				Ukrainian pronunciation is easier and sounds nicer (IMHO), since there is much less palatilisation of consonants.
> 			
> 		  There r alot of people that hate Ukrainian and find it hard.   There are a lot of people that hate English and find it hard.
> There are a lot of people that hate Polish and find it hard.
> There are a lot of people that hate Mandarin and find it hard.
> There are a lot of people that hate Nowegian and find it hard.
> There are a lot of people that hate Klingon and find it hard.
> Shall I continue, or have I made my point?

 
Nooo! i meant that mostley about Russian people, only them, I know a lot of Russians that hate this language and find it awfull, hard and stupid, comparing to Russan. It sounds like a bad Russian to them.

----------


## Бармалей

> Nooo! i meant that mostley about Russian people, only them, I know a lot of Russians that hate this language and find it awfull, hard and stupid, comparing to Russan. It sounds like a bad Russian to them.

 That's fine, but I think people at this forum should be ENCOURAGED to learn other languages, not subjected to Ukraino-phobia...Maybe that wasn't your intent -- and I understand your point that to the Russian ear it sounds strange -- but that really isn't that relevent is it?   ::

----------


## Remyisme

I just expressed what I know.

----------


## Lampada

> Nooo! i meant that mostley about Russian people, only them, I know a lot of Russians that hate this language and find it awfull, hard and stupid, comparing to Russan. It sounds like a bad Russian to them.

 This is the most ignorant and ridiculous statement I've ever heard about any language.  ::

----------


## gRomoZeka

Ukrainian is one of the easiest languages for native russian speaker, because these two languages are very much the same.
But really I don't see the point of learning it (for russians) since 95% of Ukrainians speak perfectly Russian.

----------


## ST

nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'?  Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam!  ::    http://www.kli.org/tlh/phrases.html

----------


## Zaya

(shrugging my shoulders) There are a lot of people who hate German and think that it sounds awful. And so what? It doesn't influences my opinion. I like German more than French, Italien etc. I hate Polish and Portuguese. To my mind a plenty of "sh" and especially "psh" isn't pleasant to the ear. Nevertheless, German "shp" and "sht" don't irritate me. What have I tryed to say?
Tastes differ and all of you know it )
So, let's dismiss this subject. 
TATY, I can't helping admiring ) Your explaination are so good, you're really an expert. 
PS: Everybody is welcome to correct my mistakes ::

----------


## Zaya

Что-то мне подсказывает, что там не helping должно быть, а stop...

----------


## kalinka_vinnie

> (shrugging my shoulders) There are a lot of people who hate German and think that it sounds awful. And so what? It doesn't influence my opinion. I like German more than French, Italian etc. I hate Polish and Portuguese. To my mind a lot of "sh" and especially "psh" isn't pleasant to the ear. Nevertheless, the German "shp" and "sht" don't irritate me. What have I tried to say? [What am I saying?]
> Tastes differ and all of you know it )
> So, let's dismiss this subject. 
> TATY, I can't help admiring you ) Your explanations are so good, you're really an expert. 
> PS: Everybody is welcome to correct my mistakes

----------


## Zaya

Thanks, *kalinka_vinnie*  ::  
not so many as it could have been

----------

