# Forum About Russia Politics  The end.

## Serge_spb

15.12.2014 Monday
Time 19 hundreed.
Somewhere in Russia... 
77.8 Rub \ Eur
62 Rub \ USD RTS 718 (- 10 % ) 
Now we`re definetely going down. 
He is good at making a poker face, telling lies. Like "well, rouble became little bit cheaper, we`ll only win because of that" and same bullshit. Years of KGB training and some natural talent I guees. But the biggest problem is in those who agree. 
For those who are not complete idiots - everything turned obvios today. 
It`s an uncontrolled tailspin with no way out.   
No oil incomes anymore + sanctions + unreasonable spendings (like Olympics) and we`ve got the "buy-buy" pie. 
I was so afraid not to gain something. It appears that very soon it`ll be fine to sell property in order to buy food. Like computer that I`m using right now. 
Eat your Crimea with a big spoon, dear russians.  
See you in hell.

----------


## Antonio1986

Is there a particular reason for this decrease that happened today?
Crimea is a long-term investment based on the reasoning of Cremlin. 
The ruble crisis is just temporary. I am pretty sure that they knew that this will happen.

----------


## RedFox

Топикстартер, вам туда.

----------


## Serge_spb

> Is there a particular reason for this decrease that happened today?

 It`s been decreasing since January.
But today it fell on another 10 % (from 58 to 63). Just in one day.     

> Crimea is a long-term investment based on the reasoning of Cremlin. 
> The ruble crisis is just temporary. I am pretty sure that they knew that this will happen.

 They also "knew" that Ukraine will collapse in two or more equal countries.
And that santions were just a joke. 
Antonio, you appear to be not unintelligent, taking into account the things you do for living.
So as an exception I`ll tell you: it`s not about the rouble itself. Currency is just another piece of goods that may be bought or sold. It fell mostly because oil prices went down (and they are not supposed to come back quickly). 3700 (number under normal condition - etc late 2013) \ oil price = rouble. For ex. 3700 \ 62 = 59. The problem is that today rouble fell even further, despite of the fact that Brent stood still. 
We had many problems before, and some predicted that unless our government changes its way - something bad will occur between 2016-2018. Then, we started Ukraine campaing. Because our rulers hate any positive examples of revolutions and pro-democracy reforms - once that happened in Georgia and inspired many, so they decided to destabilize them by starting a provocation back in 2008 in the Tskhinvali region or how they call it now South Osetia, now another neighbours decided to be more european, less corrupted and they got "civil war", artificially created by Kremlin. So the sanctions happened which played a role of a catalyzer for upcoming troubles (accelerating the time lapse). It`s like they knew that will _probably_ happen, and took the risk. Being desperate and hoping that europeans won`t do anything serious. 
Now we are in big big trouble. 
Many dummies here believe that we shouldn`t care much about it. We should work hard, we should be strong and same sh*t (for instance Доллар как много в этом слове / Блог им. Northid / Клуб трейдеров sMart-Lab. Мы делаем деньги на бирже.). The bad thing is that we are dependent from the whole world imports just like any other country. We can`t even bake a piece of bread without using foreign technologies. 
We import the huge majority of goods and even things that we produce ourselve are normally made with foreign components, materials or machines... which are being sold to us for dollars. 
Moreover, I`ve intentionally posted a picture of RTS index only showing that the catastrophy itself is in economy deep dive - back to the basic numbers (from 1500-2000 to 750 in one year), there are not some minor currency fluctuations. 
That means that everything is going to become extremely expensive in Russia and because (as I hope you understand now) it`s not about some Iphones or Parmesan cheese - it`s about anything from german oven to chemicals - then many notable companies will go bancrupt in the following months. 
And only god knows what will happen in the nearest two weeks or month.
I didn`t want to make any predictions here, but governments dismission (and Putins escape) is very possible.
The only question is what are we going to do next...

----------


## Serge_spb

> Топикстартер, вам туда.

 Я тебе в виде исключения поясню: не боятся в этой жизни только дураки.  ::  Когда удавка туго затягивает тонкую шейку - дурак будет продолжать ржать. Ведь он же дурак  ::  И убеждать себя не паниковать. А потом свет погаснет. 
Примерно это с вами сейчас и случится.

----------


## Antonio1986

> It`s been decreasing since January.
> But today it fell on another 10 % (from 58 to 63). Just in one day.     
> They also "knew" that Ukraine will collapse in two or more equal countries.
> And that santions were just a joke. 
> Antonio, you appear to be not unintelligent, taking into account the things you do for living.
> So as an exception I`ll tell you: it`s not about the rouble itself. Currency is just another piece of goods that may be bought or sold. It fell mostly because oil prices went down (and they are not supposed to come back quickly). 3700 (number under normal condition - etc late 2013) \ oil price = rouble. For ex. 3700 \ 62 = 59. The problem is that today rouble fell even further, despite of the fact that Brent stood still. 
> We had many problems before, and some predicted that unless our government changes its way - something bad will occur between 2016-2018. Then, we started Ukraine campaing. Because our rulers hate any positive examples of revolutions and pro-democracy reforms - once that happened in Georgia and inspired many, so they decided to destabilize them by starting a provocation back in 2008 in the Tskhinvali region or how they call it now South Osetia, now another neighbours decided to be more european, less corrupted and they got "civil war", artificially created by Kremlin. So the sanctions happened which played a role of a catalyzer for upcoming troubles (accelerating the time lapse). It`s like they knew that will _probably_ happen, and took the risk. Being desperate and hoping that europeans won`t do anything serious. 
> Now we are in big big trouble. 
> Many dummies here believe that we shouldn`t care much about it. We should work hard, we should be strong and same sh*t (for instance Доллар как много в этом слове / Блог им. Northid / Клуб трейдеров sMart-Lab. Мы делаем деньги на бирже.). The bad thing is that we are dependent from the whole world imports just like any other country. We can`t even bake a piece of bread without using foreign technologies. 
> ...

 My opinion as an economist:
1. The main indicators that define the prospects and prosperity of a country are: (a) Real GDP growth - Unemployment (b) Government Deficit (c) Public Debt (d) Current Account. Based on these indicators Russia is in a better condition than the majority of EU countries, USA and India. But in a worst condition than China and Arabic countries. Regarding the statement that Russia depends mainly on imports, I would like more clarifications, the current account (i.e. Trade Balance = Exports - Imports) of Russia is pretty fine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...entage_of_GDP: . You have a pretty strong industry and many neighboring countries depend on Russia exports.  
2. I don't live in Russia but I suppose that now you have a severe inflation which counterbalances the depreciation of the currency. Now you as Russians have limited purchasing power abroad but foreigners have extended purchasing power in Russia. This will lead to foreign investments (mainly from Germany, India and China given the sanctions from USA)
3. I agree that Russia needs to make reforms and not depend just on its natural resources (especially oil). I would have expect more investment on heavy industry and  R & D from Russia.
4. Russia is the second biggest military power. The extension of EU and NATO in Eastern Europe just provoked a "reasonable" reaction from this country. Sadam Husein was hurting the interests of the US Oil Companies in the region leading to the invasion of US in Iraq ... When the Baltic countries entered the NATO I expected a Third World War. Perhaps Russia didn't feel so strong then. But not gospodin Putin has a different opinion

----------


## Medved

*RedFox*  

> Вам туда

 +1 000 000 
Россию хрен что потопит. А что потопит Россию - не потопит Русских!

----------


## Medved

Serge_spb  

> We can`t even bake a piece of bread without using foreign technologies.

 We can. Believe me.
All we have to do is to return to some sort of the iron curtain once again, which is what we are seemingly being provoked to do.
We ARE self-sufficient, no matter of your panic.

----------


## Serge_spb

> My opinion as an economist:
> 1. The main indicators that define the prospects and prosperity of a country are: (a) Real GDP growth - Unemployment (b) Government Deficit (c) Public Debt (d) Current Account. Based on these indicators Russia is in a better condition than the majority of EU countries, USA and India. But in a worst condition than China and Arabic countries. Regarding the statement that Russia depends mainly on imports, I would like more clarifications, the current account (i.e. Trade Balance = Exports - Imports) of Russia is pretty fine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...entage_of_GDP: . You have a pretty strong industry and many neighboring countries depend on Russia exports.  
> 2. I don't live in Russia but I suppose that now you have a severe inflation which counterbalances the depreciation of the currency. Now you as Russians have limited purchasing power abroad but foreigners have extended purchasing power in Russia. This will lead to foreign investments (mainly from Germany, India and China given the sanctions from USA)
> 3. I agree that Russia needs to make reforms and not depend just on its natural resources (especially oil). I would have expect more investment on heavy industry and  R & D from Russia.
> 4. Russia is the second biggest military power. The extension of EU and NATO in Eastern Europe just provoked a "reasonable" reaction from this country. Sadam Husein was hurting the interests of the US Oil Companies in the region leading to the invasion of US in Iraq ... When the Baltic countries entered the NATO I expected a Third World War. Perhaps Russia didn't feel so strong then. But not gospodin Putin has a different opinion

 My dear friend,  
you was able to notice our GDP numbers but somehow did not take a peek at the GDP per capita list. Russia is lower than
-Greece
-Lithuania
-Estonia
-Slovakia
-Czech republic
and on the same level with Poland. 
I wonder if it is what you mean under "better condition"? 
Now, those countries had no gift in such amount of natural resources as Russia, but were able to achieve the same level of prosperity as we did. Moreover, many experts recently claimed that these countries (like Poland and Czech rep.) were predicted to overtake Russia in the current year (even when Russia still was _stable!_). Oil pumping (in Russia as well as in Brazil, Venezuela, South Africa, Indonezia) cannot eternally develop countries economy - we lost to eastern states due to their less corruption and higher management efficient). 
Furthermore, take into account that half of our $ 400 b budget used to be incomes from oil \ gas exports. Taxes from businesses - much less than in western countries. 50% of USA`s GDP are incomes from lower companies. In Russia - nothing like this. Simply because companies don`t pay legit taxes. Or simply because companies (in such amount) do not exist. Which do - they are mostly retail shops or services, because it is extremely unreasonable to produce anything in Russia. Money are expensive, energy is expensive, inflation is high, property safety is low. 
You have got different opinion like "you have got pretty strong industry" - maybe you could name what useful apart from raw materials do we sell? Russian vehicles? Software? Electronics? Food? Anything. You can even use a list of 200 largest private companies. 200 крупнейших частных компаний  trying to find anything notable except retail and oil\gas.  
I begin to have doubts about your competence, since I have to explain such obvious things. 
Concerning NATO - actually, don`t even want to discuss this. Remember, that Georgia never attacked Russia or any other country. Russia did. No wonder that after that everyone became concerned about their safety. As well as Ukraine. So don`t tell me anything about  "NATO provoked" or so. There is no point in discussing this.

----------


## Lampada

Представляю, как страшно, когда не знаешь, что делать.  У меня так было, когда у меня маленький ребёнок и объявился рак груди. Ужас сковал. Обошлось, слава Богу, выжила.  Было б здоровье, всё можно пережить. 
Вот классная песенка развести тоску.      
Припев
Только пусть переменится,
Это все перемелется,
Пусть нам светит надежда путеводной звездой.
Встречный ветер изменится,
На попутный изменится,
Старый снег скоро стает подталой водой. 
I куплет
Сколько в мире дорог,
Сколько в мире начал,
И счастливых начал больше я повстречал,
Чем счастливых исходов.
Никогда я не знал,
Где найдется причал,
Где, войдя в старый порт,
Мой корабль отдохнет перед новым походом. 
Припев
Только пусть переменится,
Это все перемелется,
Пусть нам светит надежда путеводной звездой.
Встречный ветер изменится,
На попутный изменится,
Старый снег скоро стает подталой водой. 
II куплет
Что же делать теперь,
Не бросать же все так.
Можно выход найти,
К солнцу выход найти из любых лабиринтов.
Только надо понять,
Что не надо менять,
Что нашел и хранил,
Что берег и копил, 
Что любил в этой жизни. 
Припев
Только пусть переменится,
Это все перемелется,
Пусть нам светит надежда путеводной звездой.
Встречный ветер изменится,
На попутный изменится,
Старый снег скоро стает подталой водой.

----------


## maxmixiv

> My opinion as an economist:

 May I request your opinion on another issue:
- Is it normal when the government cannot predict the imminent devaluation of currency?
- If yes, then is it normal for government to deny with obstinacy of donkey the gloomy perspective and do nothing to moderate people's losses. 
Just for your information: for many recent years, our chiefs are claiming, that rouble is super-solid currency, and "WE PERSONALLY HAVE OUR SAVINGS IN ROUBLE".

----------


## maxmixiv

Спасибо, Лампада, что подбадриваешь. 
Кстати, ссылки на матершинные стишки принимаются? 
Тогда вот они (это как бы disclaimer) Игорь Иртеньев | Хозяйке на заметку

----------


## RedFox

> Я тебе в виде исключения поясню: не боятся в этой жизни только дураки.  Когда удавка туго затягивает тонкую шейку - дурак будет продолжать ржать. Ведь он же дурак  И убеждать себя не паниковать. А потом свет погаснет. 
> Примерно это с вами сейчас и случится.

 О, разумеется. А с вами не случится. Потому что вы поистерите заранее.
Логика, где ты?  
“Fear is not real. The only place that fear can exist is in our thoughts of the future. It is a product of our imagination, causing us to fear things that do not at present and may not ever exist. That is near insanity. Do not misunderstand me, danger is very real, but fear is a choice.”

----------


## Lampada

> ...поистерите заранее. ...

 "_Истерить"_ - откуда это противное слово взялось? Не хотелось бы здесь его легализировать.

----------


## Medved

Вполне ходовое слово

----------


## maxmixiv

Как это было в КВН?  

> Раньше болгарский перец стоил рубль - пятьдесят и его закатывали в банки, а сейчас он сам закатывает истерики, просит 20 штук баксов за концерт и разъезжает на лимузине

----------


## Suobig

_"— Тебя как, сразу прикончить или желаешь помучаться? 
— Лучше, конечно, помучаться."_ 
Если бы Россия "проглотила" события на Украине, это бы означало медленный, но неизбежный конец её как суверенного государства. Странно, что кто-то этого не понимает.  
А кто выйдет живым из текущей экономической войны, мы еще поглядим.   _"Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich stärker"._

----------


## Antonio1986

> My dear friend,  
> you was able to notice our GDP numbers but somehow did not take a peek at the GDP per capita list. Russia is lower than
> -Greece
> -Lithuania
> -Estonia
> -Slovakia
> -Czech republic
> and on the same level with Poland. 
> I wonder if it is what you mean under "better condition"? 
> ...

 Answers based  on my understanding as a foreigner with minimal understanding of the actual situation in Russia, but with desire to learn about it: 
0. The value of a currency is more affected by expectations rather than actual economic variables. I have serious reasons to believe that the ruble now is facing a controled "speculative attack" orchestrated by all those that posses ruble globally. Who possess ruble globally: Russians and the buyers of russian gas. Also given that the expectations of the prospects of the Economy of Russia is based on the price of oil ... and the price of oil is controled by OPEC, i.e. Arab countries, permanent allies of USA. The depriciation of ruble is not a macroeconomic phenomenon based on how bad is entering Russia a financial crisis ... is just a political decision. Italy, Spain, UK, USA have much more serious economic problems than Russia.    
1. The countries you mentioned are member of EU and NATO and have received serious subsidies and economic help. Just the agriculture sector of Greece has received since 1981 help about 5 billions euro. These countries cannot be compared with Russia, because they are protectorates of the Big Powers (new colonies). Russia is a sovereign independent coutry and should be compared only with the G20. Based on the G20 rates is about in the middle.  Also Russia has become a "modern" capitalistic democracy in 1990. Greece is a democracy since 1848 (things cannot be compared). Also if we consider the Purhasing Power Parity and not the Nominal GDP, Russians have more power tha some of the countries you mention. 
2. Russia is corrupted, but USA and China has biggest inequality on income based on the Gini Coefficient. Perhaps USA has more poor people per analogy of population than Russia. Also Russia is a massive country and this create serious problems to manage and control. Some oligarchs have personal armies in Russia ... what you expected. Russias spans from Europe to Japan. In its population are included many people that are not even Russians. Cyprus has a much bigger per capita income than Russia, but Cyprus is a small island in the size of the city of Krasnoda and for this reason is very easy to manage and control. Cyprus, Greece, Estonia etc are a semi-sovereign semi-independent countries ... Russia is an *independent superpower*. If Russia close the oil-pipes half Europe will remain without electricity. 
3. Regarding Oil I don't have anything to comment. I totally agree. Russia is unfortunately massively based on oil revenues. This is normal. It has a comparative advantage on selling oil (Adam Smith, Ricardo David theories) ... so it does what it has the advantage to do. In addition... it has a massive industry. It is the biggest military equipment provider on the world. The 36% of the GDP is based on heavy industry (I think it ranks 8th globally). It is not just oil. 
4. Regarding taxes. It is true that you have many off-shore companies, but at some point they will return back. They already started. 
5. It is a historical fact that NATO and EU have expanded to East Europe. For me as an objective economist is an *expansion* ... for Russians is an *invation*. But only a naive person will think that NATO and EU didn't exploid the chaotic situation in Russia after 1989 to achieve this expansion. For Russians it doesn't make sense Russians to leave in a country, such as Latvia, that is a member of a coalition which was created with *ONLY* aim the destruction of Soviet Union, i.e. Russia. NATO is an *anti-Russian coalition.* 
6. The ruble declines but at least in Russia they were not confiscated the 60% of the deposits as in Cyprus, which is a "proper civilized high-income european" country. 
7. As an economist I recognise that some times *dignity* is more important than *money*. If Russians consider that they do anything they do (whether is called invasion in Georgia or invation in Ukraine) for dignity I respect this. If they do all this just to increase the *money* and *power* of some oligarchs, I feel sorry of them. But as I understood Russians consider that Crimea has always been part of Russia (if I am not wrong the majority of population there are Russians), as Greeks consider that Cyprus has always been part of Greece (80% Greek population). The difference that Greeks never had the *balls* to enter and take back Cyprus, but Russians had the balls to enter and take Crimea.   
This is just a personal opinion. The fact that I am against wars it doesn't mean that I don't understand why countries make wars. 
By the way, because I don't want to create the impression that I speak from a secure position.
The 35% of my incomes depend on Russian tourists and investors.
Also my country depends on Russia. 
Due to the sactions and the decrease of ruble we all face serious economic problems. 
Already many companies started to bankrupt.
As everyone else I try to understand the situation and have an objective opinion. 
For this reason I encourage everyone to express his opinion.
Everyone is affected.

----------


## hddscan

> "_Истерить"_ - откуда это противное слово взялось? Не хотелось бы здесь его легализировать.

 надо его люстрировать  ::

----------


## hddscan

Рубль падает по двум причинам:
1. падение цены на нефть
2. отсутствие интервенций со стороны ЦБ
сейчас курс нестабильный, но думаю где-то 60-65 будет стабильно в 2015-м 
кстати наблюдения показывают что санкции тут не причем
Доллар в начале года - 33р
Доллар в середине марта - 36р. (Крым случился, санкции ввели, нефть 95)
Доллар в середине июня - 33р (еще санкции, нефть 9 :: 
Доллар в сентябре - 36р. (нефть 95)
Доллар в отябре - 39р. (нефть 85)
Доллар в ноябре - 47р (нефть 70) 
Если кто-то хочет возразить, что дескать нефть падала ниже 40 в 2009-м и было все ок, то я отвечу, что в 2008-2009 ЦБ потратил примерно 100-200 миллиардов вечнозеленых на поддержку курса рубля, тогда как в 2014-м всего 44 миллиарда за весь год, и прекратил это делать с конца октября, объявив 5 ноября, что официально прекращает сдерживание, 10 ноября вышло постановление ЦБ об отмене границ валютной корзины

----------


## Serge_spb

> Рубль падает по двум причинам:
> 1. падение цены на нефть
> 2. отсутствие интервенций со стороны ЦБ
> сейчас курс нестабильный, но думаю где-то 60-65 будет стабильно в 2015-м 
> кстати наблюдения показывают что санкции тут не причем
> Доллар в начале года - 33р
> Доллар в середине марта - 36р. (Крым случился, санкции ввели, нефть 95)
> Доллар в середине июня - 33р (еще санкции, нефть 9
> Доллар в сентябре - 36р. (нефть 95)
> ...

 В общем-то логично. 
Но санкции разве имеют мгновенный эффект?
И прогнозы по курсы - то еще дело...  ::

----------


## RedFox

> надо его люстрировать

 "люстрировать" - откуда это противное слово взялось? Не хотелось бы здесь его легализировать.  ::   ::

----------


## Serge_spb

> Answers based  on my understanding as a foreigner with minimal understanding of the actual situation in Russia, but with desire to learn about it:

 The 36% of the GDP is really based on heavy industry, but the significant part of it are oil-gas, and as you can see we don`t export much of anything else   
Steel exports are 8 % and machines - 6 %, food 4 % and that`s it, now it can be suggested that the current situation (in 2014-2015) might be even worse. Since everyone hates us. Like Ukrainians who intentionally boycott our food.  
Don`t be naive about our military power. The old technologies still might be interesting for some 3rd-world countries but even this is starting to decay. You can learn that almost half of rockets literally will never reach its target (check Статистика испытаний советских и российских БРПЛ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91...5%D1%82%D0%B0) - section "успешные"). Russians are good at showing their flabby muscles and rusty rockets, but it`s not about the amounts of tanks you have, but how modern they are. By the way... When you check wikipidea lists - you probably get impressed about the number of military personell and tanks, but the secret is that Russia can barely protect it`s own borders. Only ~35 thousand out 1 million soldiers are professionals, everyone else are rookies recruited due to our conscription who often don`t even have a chance to practice their shooting skills at least once during 12-months service. Concerning tanks... only god knows how many we actually do have and which are ready to be used. Same with airplanes - interceptors fall from time to time during tests (recently Mig-29 fell in Moscow suburbs Истребитель МиГ-29 упал в ста метрах от здания школы в Подмосковье - Первый по срочным новостям — LIFE | NEWS). 
Space industry is over for Russia as well - google it. It`s not competitive any longer. We don`t have such guys like Elon Musk (he is a real Steve Jobs in space industry in case you haven`t heard of him). Our oligarchs who came to their fortunes by nationalisation and other semi-legal schemes don`t have much of a talent in order to develop something unique. Promises to creat a brand new russian vehicle are forgotten. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo-Mobile "Ё-мобиль") But I don`t blame them... Russia is definetely no the best soil to organize a multimillion businesses because you can loose it at any moment and get behind bars when someone wants to tackle it using his political or executive power.   

> Russia is corrupted, but USA and China has biggest inequality on income based on the Gini Coefficient. Perhaps USA has more poor people per analogy of population than Russia.

  - yeah, tell this to Russians, test your destiny... Again, you`ve heard about "USA inequality" but that`s a complete joke. You haven`t seen the reality yet. Millions of Russians work as teachers, doctors, in sales, on factories (of those great heavy industries you mentioned)... just for less than 200-300 $ \ month. Some come to Moscow for earnings, working 45 days in retail large stores (like french Auchan), doing $800 for that period, spending 12-14 hours on legs. Don`t forget that prices on food in Russia are higher than in USA since we import the majority of it. At the same time some made multimillion (or billion) fortunes just in several years without working hard, by just finding themselves at the right plce on the right time.    

> These countries cannot be compared with Russia, because they are protectorates of the Big Powers (new colonies).

  - of course they can be compared. We started under same conditions 20 years ago. Their economies used to be damaged by our communist regime as well. And - again - they had no such amount of natural resources. That`s even if you make me to believe in your "new colony" absurdity. If we had enough will - we could diversify our economy, invest in education and scienece, but decided to spent much of an incomes on military (like useless Cruisers in Medittarian Sea, Mistral ship etc etc), Olympics 2014, FIFA 2018 and other toys. We had all kind of possibilites and fcuked them up. (And why everyone is so sure that americans are the reason why countries like South Korea or eastern Europe states came from ashes to prosperity? They have got nothing else to do to feed 60 millions Polands? That`s a complete russian-propaganda nonsence, explaining our laziness.)   

> 7. As an economist I recognise that some times *dignity* is more important than *money*. If Russians consider that they do anything they do (whether is called invasion in Georgia or invation in Ukraine) for dignity I respect this. If they do all this just to increase the *money* and *power* of some oligarchs, I feel sorry of them. But as I understood Russians consider that Crimea has always been part of Russia (if I am not wrong the majority of population there are Russians), as Greeks consider that Cyprus has always been part of Greece (80% Greek population). The difference that Greeks never had the *balls* to enter and take back Cyprus, but Russians had the balls to enter and take Crimea.

 Dignity? 
We broke the law. We became a non-grata country. We used to be a full member of civilized world, now the whole world detests us. Don`t mix "balls" with russian stupidity. That doesn`t matter what the population of Crimea consists of (actually tatars and ukrainians were at least % 25-40 of it - so they had to leave their homes). The land belongs to Ukraine, that`s what matters. With russians or without on it. 
Russians should learn the history first. And then, to learn to respect the law. Since we are not able to - I can`t see any "dignity" in taking by force something that doesn`t belong to us.  Then no one will invest in our economy, no Elon Musk will occur here willing to spend biliions on researches. If the government doesn`t respect the private property - 
no one will respect us. 
And I don`t care about sences of my dear nationals, their fear ofNATO or smth... Wanna live in peace? 1. Create professional army (do not expand your power everywhere from Cuba to Black Sea and Syria, but be humble and smart... we are not USA and cannot be like them.) 2. Act correctly on international arena. 
Horror stories about NATO were writted in order to make the nation believe that enemies are everywhere. In fact, there is nothing concertning safety. That`s just the way of pursuing someones political goals.

----------


## 14Russian

I agree with all of Sergei's points.    Russia is not self-sufficient.   This is not caused by Russians in themselves but the leadership of the government.   They were lied to - e.g. 'the rouble is strong' as Sergei is saying.   
I think it's actually worse than what is being reported.   The reason?:   Most economies all over the world are in trouble, some sort of decline, even China's.   That's because people are in debt across most Western nations or don't have the purchasing power they once had.   In many Western countries, that's not very evident yet as you see on the news, people running towards discount days (Black Friday) and Christmas shopping.   But, the American and Canadian dollar have been plummeting although the USA dollars has stabilized somewhat - but, much of that is probably because of the other currencies falling (IMHO). 
Oil prices have been free-falling and Putin had been throwing money around (that Sochi Olympic investment looks really awful now) and Russia has been trying to save their banks - bailouts don't work.   But, with doctors and teachers being laid off or losing their jobs, there is no support for ordinary Russians.   Inflation is also hurting Russians so both economics and politics have been heavily mismanaged by Russia's government.   Yet, they will try to spin it away from their responsibility.   Not recognizing the deception is the only thing one could fault *those* particular Russians for.  If I could articulate it all in Russian, it might be more receptive.   Sorry, I can't.   Прости.

----------


## 14Russian

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/busine...es/513309.html  The Collapse of Putin's Economic System - Bloomberg

----------


## hddscan

There is no point to create hysteria.
And there is also no point to read "the experts" on countless MSM sites, since they were lying before and sure they lie now.
Russian economy was always oil and gas oriented and eventually the consequences are to come, as right now. But to get out of this dependency Russia has to start producing and exporting goods. For that the export should be cheap.
Right now it is a good time to let ruble "fall" or more precise to let it find its real value, because it is easy to blame the US and the EU for "the sanctions". The CBR could have stopped the fall by intervening on the currency market but it deliberately chose not to, to save money and to let ruble fly. 
On behind that some interesting things happening:
CBR increased the interest rate to 17% but not for all loans.
It left investment oriented loans on 9%
Military loans on 10.5%
And, most importantly, small business loans on 6.5% 
It is clear that Russia FINALLY wants to start creating businesses.
It won't be easy and there are many things to overcome but it's a start.

----------


## Suobig

> Dignity? 
> We broke the law. We became a non-grata country. We used to be a full member of civilized world, now the whole world detests us.

 Law? Laws in geopolitics don't exist anymore. For Russia having pro-american regime in Ukraine means death as an independent country. Everyone in big politics understands that. And still US+EU forced the issue. Putin had 2 options: let his country die slowly but surely or throw it into a war having little chances to succeed. Everyone expected him to choose former. He choosed latter. Everyone hates him now.

----------


## Eric C.

> Law? Laws in geopolitics don't exist anymore. For Russia having pro-american regime in Ukraine means death as an independent country. Everyone in big politics understands that. And still US+EU forced the issue. Putin had 2 options: let his country die slowly but surely or throw it into a war having little chances to succeed. Everyone expected him to choose former. He choosed latter. Everyone hates him now.

 Neither of the two points (namely, the Ukrainian rule would be"pro-American", and that a pro-American regime at Russia's borders would threaten its sovereignty) is actually backed up by any evidence, anything but countless statements made by guys who do propaganda for a living. Why oppose yourselves to "evil America" and raise the iron curtain again? You two used to be friends, just recall those times. Stop thinking of everyone out there as your enemies. Maybe some of what's going on in the world would threaten someone's autocracy, but certainly not your whole country. Think about that. 
And anyway, starting a war with another state out of geopolitical reasons is both a very stupid, and dirty and inhuman thing to do.

----------


## hddscan

> Neither of the two points (namely, the Ukrainian rule would be"pro-American", and that a pro-American regime at Russia's borders would threaten its sovereignty) is actually backed up *by any evidence*

 Learned from the best   

> So these are just further evidence of the connection between Russia and the armed militants ukraine_kramatorsk.jpg

----------


## Eric C.

> Learned from the best

 How are those two even connected? Except maybe the keyword "evidence"  ::

----------


## hddscan

> How are those two even connected? Except maybe the keyword "evidence"

 The point is there is no evidence needed as long as people believe what they are told, as Jen showed it to the whole world. And right now neither you nor Suobig presented any evidence which leaves the topic to believers  ::  I suspect you are in the minority on the subject.

----------


## Suobig

> Neither of the two points (namely, the Ukrainian rule would be"pro-American", and that a pro-American regime at Russia's borders would threaten its sovereignty) is actually backed up by any evidence

 No evidence, huh? 
Victoria Nuland was not discussing who she does and who she does not want to see in the Rada? 
NATO was not planning to place anti-missile systems in Poland? And now they have Ukraine - way better place for anti-missile systems. Nice step to break that disturbing nuclear parity. 
Also Sevastopol port has huge strategic importance for russian Navy in the Black Sea. That needs no evidence - it's geography. Does anyone believe that after joining NATO Ukraine would allow russian Navy to stay in Crimea?  
There were times when Russia believed in fairytales about "you have no enemies" and "NATO will never expand to the East". We've learned something from those.

----------


## Serge_spb

Stick to the topic, everyone.

----------


## Suobig

> Stick to the topic, everyone.

 You've made a statement, good sir. And now you deny others to reply to it. Is that a proper way to discuss things?
You've made a political statement and suddenly everyone discusses politics. In forum section called "Politics". How dare they!

----------


## Serge_spb

*Why Russia Is Destroying Its Own Economy*  Jacob Davidson 
In short, because Russia has a problem more urgent than its declining GDP. 
Things aren’t exactly going well in Vladimir Putin’s Russia. Oil prices have fallen to $59 a barrel and the nation’s economy is on pace to contract between 4.5% and 4.7%—more than twice the contraction caused by our own Great Recession—if that price remains at $60 or below. Meanwhile, Russia is straining against American and European sanctions that are putting even more pressure on the country’s finances. 
When the United States was facing recession, our Federal Reserve lowered interest rates to near-zero levels—and has kept them there. That stimulated the economy by making spending and investing more attractive (credit was cheap) and turning saving into a losing proposition (on top of low interest payments, money in the bank could potentially be eaten away by inflation). 
But Russia has apparently adopted the opposite strategy. Instead of lowering rates to spur investment, the nation’s central bank has raised its key rate to a whopping 17%. That means simply leaving rubles in the bank will lead to extraordinarily high risk-free returns. Unless businesses can find an investment opportunity that will make them even higher returns, a very tall order, there’s no point in withdrawing any money. Why spend on a new store or factory when you’ll make more just letting your cash sit in a vault? 
It’s very likely, in other words, that Russia’s higher interest rates will slow its already slowing economy. Rosnef, a state-owned oil company, has already accused the central bank of “pushing Russia towards recession.” 
But if that’s true, then why is Russia pursuing such a policy? The reason is that Russia has an arguably even more urgent problem than its slowing economy. Russia’s currency, the ruble, has been in free-fall as oil prices have dropped, and is now down 47% against the dollar since the beginning of the year. This is a big problem for Russian companies that need to pay their debt in dollars, and whose rubles are now worth nothing on international markets. Worse, Western economic sanctions have prevented businesses from accessing reserves of foreign currencies overseas. Without drastic action, Russia could find its economy permanently crippled by an all-but-worthless currency. 
Since people selling their rubles for dollars is what’s pushing the currency down, the central bank has raised interest rates to make holding on to rubles more attractive. That’s meant to keep the currency’s value up, even at the expense of short-term economic growth.  
The plan doesn’t appear to be working, however. Even after a massive jump in interest rates, the ruble has continued to crater. Economists are now suggesting Russia may be forced to impose capital controls—policies that would make trading rubes for dollars more difficult or expensive, or require exporters to convert dollars to rubles—to prevent a further sell-off. 
Ultimately, anything short of an increase in oil prices is unlikely to do much good. Oil and gas revenues make up roughly half of Russia’s budget, and without that money, the country is in for rough times. “The central bank was too late with its move,” one expert told Bloomberg. “Without oil and the economy stabilizing, the ruble won’t rise.”  Why Russia Is Destroying Its Own Economy - Time.com

----------


## Serge_spb



----------


## Serge_spb

*В Москве остановлены продажи новых автомобилей 35 брендов* 
Из-за стремительного обвала рубля продавцы автомобилей уже не ограничиваются повышением цен. Один из крупнейших столичных автодилеров, *Major Auto*, приостановил продажи во всех своих автосалонах. Как долго продлится этот внеплановый мораторий, ясности нет.   
Прогнозы для автодилеров в России звучат пессимистично...
Падение курса рубля и лихорадка на валютном рынке начинает все сильнее бить не только по покупателям, но и по автодилерам. Из-за финансовой нестабильности приостановил продажи машин один из крупнейших российских автодилеров Major Auto. Информация об этом изначально появилась на ленте агентства ТАСС, но корреспонденту АвтоВестей ее уже подтвердил сотрудник одного из автосалонов Major. *Решение затронуло все 35 брендов, продукцией которых торгует компания. 
Напомним, 16 декабря курс доллара на московской бирже в какой-то момент достиг 80 рублей, а евро перевалил за отметку в 100 рублей. Таким образом, полученная дилером за иномарку сумма в рублях при пересчете в валюту оказывается близкой к себестоимости, а то и меньше ее.*
Как сообщил ТАСС, продажи автомобилей приостановлены на срок от 1 до 3 дней. Сотрудник же автосалона сообщил АвтоВестям, что предсказать срок "заморозки" чрезвычайно сложно.
Стоит напомнить, что из-за падения рубля многие автопроизводители уже не раз переписывали российские ценники на машины. И похоже, это еще не финал: в начале 2015 года ожидается вторая волна роста цен на автомобили.
Компания Major Auto основана в 1998 году и является официальным дилером 35 автомобильных марок. В Московском регионе компания имеет 63 филиала, также открыто 6 филиалов в Санкт-Петербурге. По данным Forbes, в 2013 году выручка холдинга составила 88 млрд руб. 
(В Москве остановлены продажи новых автомобилей 35 брендов - АвтоВести - новости, тест-драйвы, фото и видео : В Москве остановлены продажи новых автомобилей 35 брендов)

----------


## 14Russian

> You've made a statement, good sir. And now you deny others to reply to it. Is that a proper way to discuss things?
> You've made a political statement and suddenly everyone discusses politics. In forum section called "Politics". How dare they!

 No, he just stated a fact.   You're going on a tangent, diverting away from the topic to make statements you've already made in other threads (RE: Ukraine, USA involvement etc. etc.). 
Btw, I stated quite a while ago that Russia's economy would collapse and it would be soon.

----------


## hddscan

> *Why Russia Is Destroying Its Own Economy*  Jacob Davidson 
> When the United States was facing recession, our Federal Reserve lowered interest rates to near-zero levels—and has kept them there. That stimulated the economy by making spending and investing more attractive (credit was cheap) and turning saving into a losing proposition (on top of low interest payments, money in the bank could potentially be eaten away by inflation). 
> But Russia has apparently adopted the opposite strategy. Instead of lowering rates to spur investment, the nation’s central bank has raised its key rate to a whopping 17%.

 Another bright and shiny example of "the expert" with his "expert opinion"
When the US was facing the recession dollar almost started deflating thus the low interest rates to stimulate economy.
Russian ruble has quite a spin of inflation thus the high interest rate.
Although "the expert" suddenly forgot to mention that.

----------


## hddscan

> Решение затронуло все 35 брендов, продукцией которых торгует компания.

 Bad time for any import seller in Russia. They would have to go. There is going to be a domino effect pretty soon on European economies that trade with Russia. Although they won't suffer as much still there is quite a risk, considering that the EU is balancing on the recession edge

----------


## Eric C.

> NATO was not planning to place anti-missile systems in Poland? And now they have Ukraine - way better place for anti-missile systems. Nice step to break that disturbing nuclear parity.

 "Those who don't steal aren't afraid of police patrols. " No matter what, anti-missile systems are very good, and hopefully they spread everywhere in massive numbers. While on the other side of it, humanity has to find a way to get rid of ALL nuclear weapons any country possesses, completely once and for all. Let the dumba**es shout out loud and dick measure (I believe that's what they call "politics"), but without that nuclear stuff.

----------


## UhOhXplode

> "Those who don't steal (UKRAINE) aren't afraid of police patrols...

 ^ FTFY 
The west demanded that Russian troops withdraw from the border... after the unconstitutional coup of the legally elected, democratic government... 
More on-topic:
Prices are rising in the US faster than normal. Especially food. We live in one of the least (if not the least) populated regions in the US where the prices are the lowest in the US.
Apartments that were leased for about $800 / month last year are now leasing for $1,500 / month this year. Fortunately my parents are owners, not tenants, but I do know property owners that lease and their prices.
My new TV that was selling for less than $200 was more than $300 when I got it this year. Food prices surprised everyone. The closest estimate dad could make was a 35% rise since last spring.
And my new hiking boots that were advertised for $94 cost $160 when I got those. 
So nobody can tell me that the stupid sanctions aren't affecting the US. They are. Dad said it's normal for prices to increase each year but these increases are not normal.
At the last OPEC meeting, the Saudis claimed they could survive $60 / barrel for about 1 year. They didn't say how long they could survive prices below that - definitely not for a whole year. The oil prices will go back up.
But "The end"? That's laughable. 
A better title woulda been "The big temporary dip".
And yeah, I know that dip won't be easy for a lot of people - here and especially in Russia. But it will end.
In the US, the new Sanctions / Lethal Aid bill (that Congress pressured Obama into signing, btw) is totally reprehensible and disgusting but it only gives Obama the power to do those things (it doesn't force him to do it) and he doesn't seem very willing to. Good.
But I'm not an economist so I don't really understand the recent plunge in the ruble - I just hope it gets fixed really soon.
And don't forget, the purpose of the sanctions is "Regime change in Russia". So don't forget what happened the last time "Regime change" happened (1990's).
Anyway, I'm happy to see that Russia is diversifying it's economy. I hope it can find ways to prevent this from happening again.

----------


## Antonio1986

Current Account by Country (Selected countries)  pic1.png 
Russia is on of the most powerful exporting economies globally. 
It's economy's dependency on oil prices is massive, but no one can claim that other countries are in a better position. 
Other countries (especially North Europe and the Baltics) are doomed to be dependent on the exports from other countries. 
Even during this huge crisis with the extreme decrease of incomes these countries were unable to reduce their imports.

----------


## Serge_spb

> Anyway, I'm happy to see that Russia is diversifying it's economy. I hope it can find ways to prevent this from happening again.

 You have got no idea what you`re talking about...  
Btw, what about petrol (gasoline...) prices in the USA? I`ve heard they are literally like never been better.
Why don`t you mention that?

----------


## UhOhXplode

> You have got no idea what you`re talking about... 
> Btw, what about petrol (gasoline...) prices in the USA? I`ve heard they are literally like never been better.
> Why don`t you mention that?

 I don't live in Russia so I only know what I read and what people say.
Anyway, one of my dad's friends is a landlord and he talks about leases, my parents discuss food prices, and the new TV and the boots are mine so I know how much they cost. But I don't drive so there's no reason to look at gas prices.
Tbh, I don't have a clue how much gas costs. We almost never stop at a station and, when we do, I don't read the signs because the pumps are always at a convenience store and all I wanna do is go in and get a coke or something.
When I know how much gas costs, I'll post that too but first I'll need to find out how much it cost last year. I don't know that either but I can ask.
Btw, why so negative? Imo, the only way to solve issues is being hardcore and positive.

----------


## hddscan

> Btw, what about petrol (gasoline...) prices in the USA?

 Gasoline prices by state - CNNMoney.com

----------


## hddscan

> Btw, why so negative? Imo, the only way to solve issues is being hardcore and positive.

 It's Russian mindset. Fatalism prevails, mostly comes from personal experience. Can't blame people who survived so many crises: USSR collapse, Chechen wars, Default of 1998, World crisis of 2008 and now this.

----------


## Serge_spb

> It's Russian mindset. Fatalism prevails, mostly comes from personal experience. Can't blame people who survived so many crises: USSR collapse, Chechen wars, Default of 1998, World crisis of 2008 and now this.

 Oh boy... 
What I say is based on a clear understanding of reality. Nothing more or less. 
I intentionally didn`t comment one of your earlier comments.  *"It is clear that Russia FINALLY wants to start creating businesses.
It won't be easy and there are many things to overcome but it's a start."*
(The end.) 
Now, what was that, I`m sorry? 
Did we have any obstacles for doing this BEFOREHAND? During the last 10 years? 
Promises are great, promises like "sanctions are a god`s bless, finally our own producers won`t be supressed by europeans and we`ll be able to begin producing our own food... just in three months". What we see in reality? Food prices went up 20-25 % and more, we consume the majority of the same goods, coming to Russia from non-EU states. 
Because it takes years to learn the technology of growing smth.
I`m not even talking about heavy industries (if it is what you meant under "businesses"). 
I`ll post one video here. Don`t think though that I`m a big fan of _tovarisch_ Potapenko    
But he is 100% right.
Posessing large businesses in three countries is definetely not a way of your "fatalist".
But nevertheless he means exactly what I`m trying to explain. 
Don`t have illusions about Russia. Spread the correct understading among those nationals who are still haven`t lost the ablitity to think. Leave patriotic "we`ll deal with that just like always" behind. 
That`s not the usual crisis.

----------


## 14Russian

> You have got no idea what you`re talking about... 
> Btw, what about petrol (gasoline...) prices in the USA? I`ve heard they are literally like never been better.
> Why don`t you mention that?

 He's a naiive kid who doesn't know anything about Russia.

----------


## 14Russian

> It's Russian mindset. Fatalism prevails, mostly comes from personal experience. Can't blame people who survived so many crises: USSR collapse, Chechen wars, Default of 1998, World crisis of 2008 and now this.

 So, your rationalization is that Russians have an inherent defeatist mindset which leads them to follow a leadership who doesn't care about them but sends the country into collapse?

----------


## diogen_

> "Those who don't steal aren't afraid of police patrols. " No matter what, anti-missile systems are very good, and hopefully they spread everywhere in massive numbers. While on the other side of it, humanity has to find a way to get rid of ALL nuclear weapons any country possesses, completely once and for all. Let the dumba**es shout out loud and dick measure (I believe that's what they call "politics"), but without that nuclear *stuff*.

 Putin is not as naive as you might imagine to be lulled and mesmerized by such "soothing" lullabies of the West.))   

> “Sometimes I wonder, maybe the bear should just sit quietly, munch on berries and honey rather than chasing after piglets, maybe then, they would leave it alone? But no, they wouldn’t, because they will always try to chain it up. And as soon as they chain it up, they will pull out its teeth and claws.” 
> By teeth and claws, Putin said he meant Russia’s nuclear weapons. The west was circling round to destroy Russia, so it could steal its natural resources, he continued. “Once they’ve taken out his claws and his teeth, then the bear is no longer necessary. He’ll become a *stuffed animal*.”

  ::   Putin: I feel no responsibility for collapse of rouble | World news | The Guardian

----------


## 14Russian

> Putin is not as naive as you might imagine to be lulled and mesmerized by such "soothing" lullabies of the West.))    Putin: I feel no responsibility for collapse of rouble | World news | The Guardian

 LOL  Putin predicts economic recovery but warns West against pressuring Russian ‘bear’ - The Washington Post 
Putin, the epitome of honesty, and the most credible politician ever (lol) says the economy will recover in 2 years.   You must be really gullible to believe anything he says. 
At least, Russians can be rest assured they can be arrested when they complain publicly.

----------


## diogen_

> Putin, the epitome of honesty, and the most credible politician ever (lol) says the economy will recover in 2 years.   You must be really gullible to believe anything he says.

 The crisis will be mostly over as soon as the oil prices come back to the per-crisis level or even  higher. It may happen in one, two or three years or later, who knows, but inevitably it *must* happen when American fracking industry will be completely washed out of the market due to its huge losses. In the long run, Putin  will get a bigger oil market share and win a victory as it always happened in the past. Putin is invincible. ::

----------


## 14Russian

> The crisis will be mostly over as soon as the oil prices come back to the per-crisis level or even  higher. It may happen in one, two or three years or later, who knows, but inevitably it *must* happen when American fracking industry will be completely washed out of the market due to its huge losses. In the long run, Putin  will get a bigger oil market share and win a victory as it always happened in the past. Putin is invincible.

 Okay.  ::    Let me know when you awake from fantasy land.  ::

----------


## Lampada

> LOL ...

 Тебе б только посмеяться погромче.   ::

----------


## hddscan

> What I say is based on a clear understanding of reality. Nothing more or less.

 Can't argue with that
But it's the same as glass half-empty or half-full.
Some people tend to see the bad stuff first and some try to find the good stuff
Both kinds are right, it's just perception that differs.

----------


## hddscan

> Putin: I feel no responsibility for collapse of rouble | World news | The Guardian

 That's an effing lie. He has never said "I feel no responsibility for collapse of rouble", this is completely made up. Although I'm not surprised, because it's the Guardian.

----------


## Serge_spb

*Компания IKEA объявила о том, что приостанавливает продажу кухонной мебели и бытовой техники и планирует возобновить ее с 20 декабря. Ранее было объявлено, что сегодня, 18 декабря, должны были вступить в силу новые цены в IKEA. Компания не раскрывает, насколько увеличит цены на свою продукцию*   
В сообщении компании отмечается, что продажи приостановлены «в связи с большим количеством заказов, находящихся в обработке». 
Одновременно с этим компания сообщила о начале пересмотра цен на ряд товаров, в связи с чем указанные на сайте компании цены могут не соответствовать реальной стоимости в магазине. 
IKEA не раскрывает, наcколько увеличит цены на свою продукцию. 
По данным генерального директора компании «InfoLine-аналитика» Михаила Бурмистрова , крупногабаритная мебель в ассортименте сети составляет 40-50%, техника  – незначительную долю. Сейчас, по словам эксперта, ежедневный оборот IKEA составляет 800 млн -1 млрд руб. Это в 2-2,5 раза выше, чем в обычные дни года. 
«Решение провести переоценку стоимости продукции и приостановить продажи – совершенно нормальное. Распродажа по ценам, которые не соответствуют сегодняшней ситуации на рынке, поставит IKEA в невыгодное конкурентное положение», – объясняет эксперт. По его мнению, остановка продаж негативно на компании не скажется, после изменения цен мебельная компания окажется в выигрыше. 
Ранее было объявлено, что цены в российских торговых центрах IKEA начнут повышаться c 18 декабря 2014 года. 
В компании сообщили, что существенное влияние на финансовые показатели ее работы оказали падение курса рубля, рост цен на сырье и тарифов на транспорт. 
В пресс-службе компании IKEA рассказывали РБК, что операционная деятельность компании не может не зависеть от внешних факторов, хотя более 60% товаров, которыми торгуют магазины IKEA, производится в России. 
Ограничивать заказы на крупную мебель (гардеробы, кухни, спальни – то, что требует дополнительной комплектации и потребитель не может взять со склада самообслуживания) IKEA в Санкт-Петербурге начала еще на прошлой неделе. Как рассказали потребители, побывавшие в «МЕГА Дыбенко» и «МЕГА Парнас», крупногабаритных товаров на складе в магазине не было. «И из другого магазина их привезти тоже нельзя, сообщили нам в магазине, объясняя техническими причинами», – рассказал собеседник РБК. 
Как пояснил представитель пресс-службы IKEA, в преддверии новогодних праздников компания традиционно наблюдает существенное увеличение количества посетителей в магазинах. «Это связано как со всеобщей подготовкой к зимним праздникам, так и с изменением цен на наши товары, анонсированным в начале месяца», – говорит пресс-секретарь. В других городах России, по данным компании, ограничений на заказ мебели не было до этого четверга. 
Данных о том, насколько вырос трафик, чек и продажи IKEA в последние две недели, компания не раскрывает. По словам представителя компании, менеджмент принял решение о приостановке продаж на часть продукции исходя из эффективности таких действий. 
По данным «InfoLine-Аналитики», емкость мебельного рынка России в 2014 году приблизится к 600 млрд. руб., увеличившись в денежном выражении примерно на 15%, преимущественно в связи с девальвацией рубля. Доля импорта на мебельном рынке России (с учетом серого импорта) превышает 55%. Крупнейшими ритейлерами на мебельном рынке являются сети IKEA (80,5 млрд. руб. без НДС в 2013 году), Hoff (6,5 млрд. руб. без НДС в 2013 году) и «Шатура-мебель» (собственные и франчайзинговые магазины, выручка которых более 6 млрд. руб.). Таким образом, доля IKEA на мебельном рынке в 2013 году превысила 16%, а по итогам 2014 года составит примерно 18,5% (выручка вырастет более чем на 20% и превысит 97 млрд. руб.)    IKEA приостановила продажу кухонной мебели и бытовой техники :: Бизнес ::  
P.S. Россияне активно скупают товары. Чуют, что  на прежней зарплате плазма в новом году не станет шире, а кухня новее.

----------


## UhOhXplode

> He's a naiive kid who doesn't know anything about Russia.

 So yeah, I don't know everything about Russia or even the US but I do know a lot about people and a lot about life.    

> It's Russian mindset. Fatalism prevails, mostly comes from personal experience. Can't blame people who survived so many crises: USSR collapse, Chechen wars, Default of 1998, World crisis of 2008 and now this.

 Thanks but that's still too easy. I can say it's the American mindset but I'm not Kerry or Obama and they don't think anything that I think. 
And it's the American mindset if one of my friends can't play an online game and rage-quits. But I keep fighting and I win. 
I think it;s the same with the Russian mindset. So maybe some Russians can be fatalist but others don't quit and they win. Don't forget, it was Russians that won the Sochi Olympics and it was Russians that won Crimea.
Русские не сдаются.    

> You have got no idea what you`re talking about... 
> Btw, what about petrol (gasoline...) prices in the USA? I`ve heard they are literally like never been better.
> Why don`t you mention that?

 I browsed all of the photos I shot since 2010 and I could only find one photo with a gas pump. That was last summer. So I went back today and took another photo. Here's what the prices were. Btw, it was the same pump so it's the same type of gas.  *24 Июль 2014 год:*    *18 Декабрь 2014 год:*   
So yeah, the difference is $1.12 USD. But if the gas that's used to deliver products got cheaper then why are the products way more expensive?
Btw, most of the stuff we buy here is made in other countries, even the food. It's very rare to ever see anything that was made in the USA. So America has the same issues with too many imports.

----------


## Eric C.

> ^ FTFY 
> The west demanded that Russian troops withdraw from the border... after the unconstitutional coup of the legally elected, democratic government... 
> More on-topic:
> Prices are rising in the US faster than normal. Especially food. We live in one of the least (if not the least) populated regions in the US where the prices are the lowest in the US.
> Apartments that were leased for about $800 / month last year are now leasing for $1,500 / month this year. Fortunately my parents are owners, not tenants, but I do know property owners that lease and their prices.
> My new TV that was selling for less than $200 was more than $300 when I got it this year. Food prices surprised everyone. The closest estimate dad could make was a 35% rise since last spring.
> And my new hiking boots that were advertised for $94 cost $160 when I got those. 
> So nobody can tell me that the stupid sanctions aren't affecting the US. They are. Dad said it's normal for prices to increase each year but these increases are not normal.
> At the last OPEC meeting, the Saudis claimed they could survive $60 / barrel for about 1 year. They didn't say how long they could survive prices below that - definitely not for a whole year. The oil prices will go back up.
> ...

 I hate buck inflation, and you're right - anything that is higher than 4% a year is NOT ok. 
As for the ruble - it's just an asset, and its value is dependent on the financial rating of the issuer (i.e. Russia), which is now kinda going down the drain. The fall of the prices of the most (if not only) strategical resource, unreasonable foreign & domestic policies (including the infamous ban on imports), etc. are all creating a pretty shady image for the country, which immediately affects its financial rating. We can wait and see if it's going to start changing to the better at some point, but it's obviously impossible without some global refactoring on the way that country is doing its business.

----------


## 14Russian

> That's an effing lie. He has never said "I feel no responsibility for collapse of rouble", this is completely made up. Although I'm not surprised, because it's the Guardian.

 Where has he said he takes full responsibility?   Or any responsibility?   Find me one site, whether Western or Russian or any source. 
He blames the West for part of it and low oil prices but never takes any responsibility at all or talks about his policies.   He makes a vague reference in that video regarding 'heads of state' but that's it.   
He also looks like he's going on full nutso mode: Vladimir Putin in bizarre rant accusing the West of 'ripping out' Russia's claws - Mirror Online  http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/18/world/...ech-dougherty/  Putin blames Western sanctions for economic crisis | Fox News  Putin speech sparks more ruble volatility.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q5KBPHxkP4

----------


## Eric C.

> Putin is not as naive as you might imagine to be lulled and mesmerized by such "soothing" lullabies of the West.))    Putin: I feel no responsibility for collapse of rouble | World news | The Guardian

 The question is not how naive Putin is. The question is, how naive his followers among ordinary Russians are, and if there are limits for that naiveness at all.

----------


## UhOhXplode

> I hate buck inflation, and you're right - anything that is higher than 4% a year is NOT ok. 
> As for the ruble - it's just an asset, and its value is dependent on the financial rating of the issuer (i.e. Russia), which is now kinda going down the drain. The fall of the prices of the most (if not only) strategical resource, unreasonable foreign & domestic policies (including the infamous ban on imports), etc. are all creating a pretty shady image for the country, which immediately affects its financial rating. We can wait and see if it's going to start changing to the better at some point, but it's obviously impossible without some global refactoring on the way that country is doing its business.

 Well, at least new movies haven't changed up much. I got Transformers "Age of Extinction", Star Trek "Into Darkness", and The Hobbit "Desolation of Smaug" for less than $50.  ::  But 20 oz cokes are $1.50 now ($1 last year) and Trollies are $1.99 ($1.69 last year) and they don't even have the worms (just Tropic-O's and Bears). I bought these when I shot the photo of the gas pump today.   
Dunno what the asset and issuer thing's all about but yeah, they definitely nned to get all that refactored or whatever. Putin needs to have some serious discussions with the global financial leaders and learn what he can do that will save the ruble without seriously messing up Russia. There's gotta be a way to do that.

----------


## hddscan

> Where has he said he takes full responsibility?   Or any responsibility?   Find me one site, whether Western or Russian or any source.

 I guess you are banned in google
But here you go - Путин заявил, что не уходит от ответственности за ситуацию в стране |    

> "Ответственность за все, что происходит в стране, всегда лежит на главе государства, ну и дальше по ранжиру вниз"
> "От этой ответственности я никогда не уклонялся и уклоняться не собираюсь"

----------


## maxmixiv

> P.S. Россияне активно скупают товары. Чуют, что на прежней зарплате плазма в новом году не станет шире, а кухня новее.

 Yes, people try to get rid of roubles. What they are supposed to do with 4 new huge TV sets?
Foreigners (guests from Kazakhstan) participate in the campaign, too. They are purchasing apartments... What will they do with them ?  ::

----------


## UhOhXplode

> Where has he said he takes full responsibility?   Or any responsibility?   Find me one site, whether Western or Russian or any source. 
> He blames the West for part of it and low oil prices but never takes any responsibility at all or talks about his policies.   He makes a vague reference in that video regarding 'heads of state' but that's it.   
> He also looks like he's going on full nutso mode: Vladimir Putin in bizarre rant accusing the West of 'ripping out' Russia's claws - Mirror Online  Crisis, what crisis? Putin's marathon news conference - CNN.com  Putin blames Western sanctions for economic crisis | Fox News  Putin speech sparks more ruble volatility.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q5KBPHxkP4

 zOOmg!  ::  You post one UK and three US media links and you didn't expect Putin to appear full-on nutjob? Ой, как смешно!  :: 
If you really wanted to know, you shoulda checked out President Putin's Q&A session. There was a live-feed article for that in Rossiyskaya gazeta.
But with 4 western links and a 29 second quip from Live News, what did you expect?
To see the other side of the story: рубль Путин 
About the 29 second quip from Live News - You don't have to be an economist to understand Forex Trading. And with a plunging ruble that can be serious profits when the ruble rises again. Forex Trading 
I totally do get why Putin and the Central Bank stopped propping up the ruble. I mean, why lose valuable assets when a huge plunge can create seriously profitable currency exchanges. It's a Russian gold mine, right now, for Russia. 
EDIT:
Also this. http://www.rg.ru/2014/12/19/sankcii-site.html 
If those EU sanctions get lifted then the ruble value will definitely rise.

----------


## 14Russian

> I guess you are banned in google
> But here you go - Путин заявил, что не уходит от ответственности за ситуацию в стране |

 Perhaps, other Russians can comment?:   Perhaps, he is saying he'll take responsibility but it sounds like he'll be 'responsible now.'   Putin is not taking the blame for the predicament or saying he contributed to it in a signficant way.   Nevertheless, it doesn't matter, does it?   These problems were inevitable and he stole from the people with his oligarch friends.   It's been happening for decades and stupid people there either put their heads in the sand or even supported the burglary.    
I think, here, he blames the central banks in a vague statement?:
"В целом должна быть поднята персональная ответственность в Центральном банке и ответственных сотрудников правительства РФ за результаты работы на каждом участке, который им доверен. Вместе с тем считаю, что в целом административные структуры правительственной и финансовой власти справляются с тем задачами и проблемами, перед которыми стоит сегодня страна", — отметил он.

----------


## 14Russian

> zOOmg!  You post one UK and three US media links

 Blah, blah, blah...too much nonsense from your reply....enjoy Putin's speeches about bears.

----------


## 14Russian

> Yes, people try to get rid of roubles. What they are supposed to do with 4 new huge TV sets?
> Foreigners (guests from Kazakhstan) participate in the campaign, too. They are purchasing apartments... What will they do with them ?

 Dunno about the TVs but people still need a place to live.... They will rent them out?  Perhaps, they anticipate inflation in rental fees?

----------


## maxmixiv

> They will rent them out? Perhaps, they anticipate inflation in rental fees?

 Probably so. But apartments are very expensive, it will take ages to cover spent sums.

----------


## hddscan

> Perhaps, other Russians can comment?:   Perhaps, he is saying he'll take responsibility but it sounds like he'll be 'responsible now.'

 Perhaps you just need to accept that you've been brainfooked my Western MSM and the reality is not as they told you.

----------


## Hanna

> 15.12.2014 Monday
> Time 19 hundreed.
> Somewhere in Russia... 
> 77.8 Rub \ Eur
> 62 Rub \ USD RTS 718 (- 10 % )

 After everything Russia's been through in your lifetime, is this really what you call "the end"? 
I realise it's scary and incredibly frustrating for normal people whose money lose their value. 
Russia hasn't been treated fairly by the West at all. But those really suffering are those in Eastern Ukraine.  
Seriously, Serge, in 3 years time, you will be on the beach in Crimea, drinking Pina Colada with a very expensive electronic gadget in your hand, and the Russian flag over your head. You will smile as you remember this. That's my prediction.  
The sad part of this is, where will a certain neighbouring brother country of Russia be? They'll be on their knees in debt to the IMF, Washington and exploited by the EU. That's the real tragedy in this.  
So don't lose track of the bigger picture. 
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? 
Now everyone's children get a tiny taste of what people went through in Russia, in the 1990s.

----------


## Serge_spb

> After everything Russia's been through in your lifetime, is this really what you call "the end"? 
> I realise it's scary and incredibly frustrating for normal people whose money lose their value. 
> Russia hasn't been treated fairly by the West at all. But those really suffering are those in Eastern Ukraine.  
> Seriously, Serge, in 3 years time, you will be on the beach in Crimea, drinking Pina Colada with a very expensive electronic gadget in your hand, and the Russian flag over your head. You will smile as you remember this. That's my prediction.  
> The sad part of this is, where will a certain neighbouring brother country of Russia be? They'll be on their knees in debt to the IMF, Washington and exploited by the EU. That's the real tragedy in this.  
> So don't lose track of the bigger picture. 
> What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? 
> Now everyone's children get a tiny taste of what people went through in Russia, in the 1990s.

 Have you read the thread?  ::

----------


## Serge_spb

*Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку в Россию* 
Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку в Россию. Причина – валютный кризис и высокий курс доллара и евро. Магазины ждут отскока и не исключают на это время арендных каникул   
Как сообщает газета «Ведомости», среди компаний, приостановивших поставки в магазины, такие крупные игроки, как Inditex (Zara, Oysho и Bershka), а также BNS Group, управляющая в России сетями Calvin Klein, Armani Jeans, Michael Kors и TopShop. Гендиректор последней рассказал, что компания  взяла паузу до конца 2014 – первой недели 2015 года. Исключением стали бренды fast fashion, распространяемые через TopShop. По ним поставки продолжаются, хотя их объемы сократились. 
 «Цена закупки виртуальная, никто не знает, по какому курсу считать», – поясняет ретейлер, указав, что рисков пока нет – в Азии поставщиков много, и в случае необходимости может подстраховать Узбекистан. 
Sela в настоящее время ведет переговоры по ценам, а обувная сеть Zenden утверждает, что некоторые ретейлеры отказываются от уже заказанного товара в Китае. По словам еще одного источника «Ведомостей», *во время ноябрьского валютного скачка продавцы подняли цены на 23% в нижнем ценовом сегменте и это обрушило продажи. «Пришлось вернуться к прежней цене», – объяснил он.* 
Продавцы по разному пытаются решить вопрос с арендой. В регионах они просят сети об арендных каникулах, а в Москве компания Immofinanz (управляет ТРЦ «Золотой Вавилон» и «Гудзон») предложила временное снижение арендных платежей на индивидуальной основе, чтобы помочь сократить затраты из-за девальвации рубля.  *В следующих сезонах потребители столкнутся со «стилевым однообразием» и сокращением количества товара по мере увеличения размера, говорит управляющий директор Esper Group Дарья Ядерная.* Zenden сократила закупку обуви на весну/лето 2015 года на 20% пар. BNS Group скорректирует объемы поставок «как минимум пропорционально изменению валютного курса», говорит ее генеральный директор Денис .Богатырев. «Такого изобилия и вариативности, как раньше, в 2015 году не будет», – считает он.   Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку  - РБК

----------


## hddscan

> В следующих сезонах потребители столкнутся со «стилевым однообразием» и сокращением количества товара по мере увеличения размера, говорит управляющий директор Esper Group Дарья Ядерная.

 Russia would finally find the art of online purchases. Lot's of things to chose from and cheaper than in retail stores.

----------


## 14Russian

> Perhaps you just need to accept that you've been brainfooked by *neo-Soviet /Kremlin media* and the reality is not as they told you.

 I fixed that for you.  ::  
I'm anti-West as they come but, woooooo, guess what, I can acknowledge the propaganda the Kremlin dishes out.   You are lied to over and over so guess what that makes you, when you keep believing it?   Putinboots and company have ****** Russia over and the country is not sustaining itself.   There have been no plans or policies to sustain itself in case of a downturn in the major industries like the oil/gas sector.   Western countries are not sustaining either but no one has confidence in the ruble.   It's not a world-wide currency.   Russia is not importing much other than a few resources/goods.   Corruption is rampant.   There are plenty of brainwashed zombies though that won't criticize the government to any real signficant extent.   Even when the country is collapsing, there will still be citizens claiming the US boogyman did something.   Yes, the US and other western nations do pull strings but for Russia's economy, at face value, that is on the government for having no economic policy that can sustain downturns.   Not to mention the country giving itself to China, most recently.   Talk about gullible...  ::     It's a real shame.  ::

----------


## hddscan

> I'm anti-West as they come

 I'm sorry but I can't agree with you on that or maybe you hide it very well.
Moreover the way you present your information sources show that you are always getting one side of the story, which means you are not operating with facts but with propaganda only   

> You are lied to over and over

 Hmm, let's face the facts, shall we?
You asked to confirm where Putin says that he takes responsibility, I gave you that and please note that information sources you read did not give you that information i.e. they lied to you.
Now you still insist that I'm being lied to over and over but in reality it's the other way around. I guess that makes you what? Harperbot?  

> There have been no plans or policies to sustain itself in case of a downturn in the major industries like the oil/gas sector.

 True, and this is completely and entirely fault of Russian government - Putin's government and Yeltsin's and Medvedev's.
Although I finally see something good happening about that not that it is Putin's desire but rather inevitability of the situation.  

> Western countries are not sustaining either but no one has confidence in the ruble. It's not a world-wide currency.

 Do I need to care about that? And why?
BTW I have no plans to keep my earnings in Canadian dollar and I bet I'm not alone. Does it make Canadian currency unimportant?  

> Even when the country is collapsing, there will still be citizens claiming the US boogyman did something.

 Hold to that thought
Now go and read all those precious MSM you've been referring to. 
You'll find that they all claim loud and ambitious that the sanctions are working and Russian economy is hurt because of that.
So what is it? Do they work or do they not? You can't have it both ways.

----------


## UhOhXplode

> Have you read the thread?

 I have and I've also read every link. And I've been following the events in the western and eastern media.
And I totally agree with Hanna's post.   

> *Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку в Россию*
> Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку в Россию. Причина – валютный кризис и высокий курс доллара и евро. Магазины ждут отскока и не исключают на это время арендных каникул 
> ФОТО 
> Как сообщает газета «Ведомости», среди компаний, приостановивших поставки в магазины, такие крупные игроки, как Inditex (Zara, Oysho и Bershka), а также BNS Group, управляющая в России сетями Calvin Klein, Armani Jeans, Michael Kors и TopShop. Гендиректор последней рассказал, что компания  взяла паузу до конца 2014 – первой недели 2015 года. Исключением стали бренды fast fashion, распространяемые через TopShop. По ним поставки продолжаются, хотя их объемы сократились.
>  «Цена закупки виртуальная, никто не знает, по какому курсу считать», – поясняет ретейлер, указав, что рисков пока нет – в Азии поставщиков много, и в случае необходимости может подстраховать Узбекистан.
> Sela в настоящее время ведет переговоры по ценам, а обувная сеть Zenden утверждает, что некоторые ретейлеры отказываются от уже заказанного товара в Китае. По словам еще одного источника «Ведомостей», *во время ноябрьского валютного скачка продавцы подняли цены на 23% в нижнем ценовом сегменте и это обрушило продажи. «Пришлось вернуться к прежней цене», – объяснил он.*
> Продавцы по разному пытаются решить вопрос с арендой. В регионах они просят сети об арендных каникулах, а в Москве компания Immofinanz (управляет ТРЦ «Золотой Вавилон» и «Гудзон») предложила временное снижение арендных платежей на индивидуальной основе, чтобы помочь сократить затраты из-за девальвации рубля. *В следующих сезонах потребители столкнутся со «стилевым однообразием» и сокращением количества товара по мере увеличения размера, говорит управляющий директор Esper Group Дарья Ядерная.* Zenden сократила закупку обуви на весну/лето 2015 года на 20% пар. BNS Group скорректирует объемы поставок «как минимум пропорционально изменению валютного курса», говорит ее генеральный директор Денис .Богатырев. «Такого изобилия и вариативности, как раньше, в 2015 году не будет», – считает он.  Крупные продавцы одежды приостановили поставку  - РБК

 First it was furniture and appliances, now it's clothing. But these are stores that sell a lot of imports so that should have been expected.
Buy Russian. Problem solved. Or buy online, that's always cheaper.
But I would like to see how it's spun in the Russian media - Not the US/UK/Finnish media being corroborated by the Dutch Moscow/St. Peterburg Times. That's a bit too expat to be Russian.   

> *I'm anti-West as they come* but, woooooo, guess what, I can acknowledge the propaganda the Kremlin dishes out.   You are lied to over and over so guess what that makes you, when you keep believing it?   Putinboots and company have ****** Russia over and the country is not sustaining itself.   There have been no plans or policies to sustain itself in case of a downturn in the major industries like the oil/gas sector.   Western countries are not sustaining either but no one has confidence in the ruble.   It's not a world-wide currency.   Russia is not importing much other than a few resources/goods.   Corruption is rampant.   There are plenty of brainwashed zombies though that won't criticize the government to any real signficant extent.   Even when the country is collapsing, there will still be citizens claiming the US boogyman did something.   Yes, the US and other western nations do pull strings but for Russia's economy, at face value, that is on the government for having no economic policy that can sustain downturns.   Not to mention the country giving itself to China, most recently.   Talk about gullible...     It's a real shame.

 I may respond to that (bold) when I stop rolling all over the floor laughing...
It was Vladimir Putin that paid off the old USSR debts - including the hardcore Paris Club of Creditors - and made Russia one of the most solvent countries in the world.
So if anyone knows how to pull Russia out of a financial disaster, it's definitely Vladimir Putin. He already proved, after the 1990's, that he can.

----------


## 14Russian

> I have and I've also read every link. And I've been following the events in the western and eastern media.
> And I totally agree with Hanna's post. 
> First it was furniture and appliances, now it's clothing. But these are stores that sell a lot of imports so that should have been expected.
> Buy Russian. Problem solved. Or buy online, that's always cheaper.
> But I would like to see how it's spun in the Russian media - Not the US/UK/Finnish media being corroborated by the Dutch Moscow/St. Peterburg Times. That's a bit too expat to be Russian. 
> I may respond to that (bold) when I stop rolling all over the floor laughing...
> It was Vladimir Putin that paid off the old USSR debts - including the hardcore Paris Club of Creditors - and made Russia one of the most solvent countries in the world.
> So if anyone knows how to pull Russia out of a financial disaster, it's definitely Vladimir Putin. He already proved, after the 1990's, that he can.

 (Deleted. L.)
Yes, he'll just go in the shop and buy those nice Russian pants, jacket and shirt he's always wanted. ::    Plus, the cars, appliances, furniture - all made in Russia?  Of course, online shopping is getting bigger and it's a resource to get a good deal but while people are buying online, your neighbourhood shop is not making money.   They probably shouldn't charge so much but then the markup is there because they bought online themselves.   So, buying online HELPS you to some extent but that doesn't mean the economy will pick up.   Most people know about ebay, paypal, alibaba but the economies around the world are still in free fall, Russia as one e.g., that is in rapid decline.   Anyway, you don't think about these things.   It doesn't matter if you are laughing about my 'anti-west' comment.   I've posted about the West before when the topic is relevant.   
I don't see the problem with using 'Western' sources when it's including neutral info - Putin spent most of his speech using a bear analogy so it's the same whether you use a Russian or a Western source.   The data more or less is corresponding with each other - the ruble has still fallen.

----------


## Antonio1986

«Да, падают цены на нефть. Но уровень жизни в России падает катастрофически не из-за этого. В Норвегии или даже Нигерии, которые примерно так же зависят от нефти, как Россия, валюта упала на 12–15%. Граждане не потеряли две трети сбережений и доходов. Нет паники на бирже, ставка не взлетает до 17%. Ведь дело-то в другом. Этой власти больше никто не доверяет. Ни внутри страны, ни снаружи. Даже те, кто на словах демонстрирует горячую поддержку курса Путина, бегут в обменники, пока курс доллара не вырос еще больше» 
Ходорковский

----------


## UhOhXplode

> (Deleted. L.)
> Yes, he'll just go in the shop and buy those nice Russian pants, jacket and shirt he's always wanted.   Plus, the cars, appliances, furniture - all made in Russia?  Of course, online shopping is getting bigger and it's a resource to get a good deal but while people are buying online, your neighbourhood shop is not making money.   They probably shouldn't charge so much but then the markup is there because they bought online themselves.   So, buying online HELPS you to some extent but that doesn't mean the economy will pick up.   Most people know about ebay, paypal, alibaba but the *economies around the world are still in free fall*, Russia as one e.g., that is in rapid decline.   Anyway, you don't think about these things.   It doesn't matter if you are laughing about my 'anti-west' comment.   I've posted about the West before when the topic is relevant.   
> I don't see the problem with using 'Western' sources when it's including neutral info - Putin spent most of his speech using a bear analogy so it's the same whether you use a Russian or a Western source.   The data more or less is corresponding with each other - the ruble has still fallen.

 No offense. It was just a comment I didn't expect but I don't take these discussions on a personal level. People always have different opinions.
You're right, online shopping wouldn't help the economy but at least it could help some of the people and that's more important, imo. But you're also right that I don't think enough about these things. For example, I wasn't aware that economies around the world were in free fall. Prices are rising faster here but dad's brokers know what to do when that happens so we only get gains and not losses - countries in free fall need better lawyers and brokers.
And yeah, western sources are fine for economic issues except they're so negative. I totally would rather read about bears and claws than how the whole world is exploding and everybody is doomed. Western economic media is scary. 
Anyway, every media has it's own issues and it's own agendas. All the anti-Russian stuff in the western media is seriously annoying but so are all the American civil rights stories in the Russian media. It's all just a media war. That's why I wanna see both sides because it's not easy to get legit information out of all the propaganda that's happening on every side.

----------


## Lampada

> No offense. It was just a comment I didn't expect but* I don't take these discussions on a personal level.* People always have different opinions. ...

 I salute you for that! ::

----------


## 14Russian

> No offense. It was just a comment I didn't expect but I don't take these discussions on a personal level. People always have different opinions.
> You're right, online shopping wouldn't help the economy but at least it could help some of the people and that's more important, imo. But you're also right that I don't think enough about these things. For example, I wasn't aware that economies around the world were in free fall. Prices are rising faster here but dad's brokers know what to do when that happens so we only get gains and not losses - countries in free fall need better lawyers and brokers.
> And yeah, western sources are fine for economic issues except they're so negative. I totally would rather read about bears and claws than how the whole world is exploding and everybody is doomed. Western economic media is scary. 
> Anyway, every media has it's own issues and it's own agendas. All the anti-Russian stuff in the western media is seriously annoying but so are all the American civil rights stories in the Russian media. It's all just a media war. That's why I wanna see both sides because it's not easy to get legit information out of all the propaganda that's happening on every side.

 I'm not trying to be personal.   I'm just trying to explain, why I believe there are very serious economic problems out there and in Russia, it is more grave than what many make it out to be.   Just because I am negative, it doesn't mean I aim to offend.   I mentioned in another post/thread, that Russian media spin the facts and information.   Of course, the West does, too.   It's another topic/theme, however, and I think the West is in trouble economically and there's data and info out there that can illustrate that, too.   If you don't like to read something negative, that's your prerogative but that doesn't mean it's not the reality.   If you want something clear and simple, then you can look at economics at a very summarized concept.   Russia's main industry is gas/oil/natural resources sector and oil prices have just plummeted.   Banks are in major trouble and just like the EU, for e.g., and the USA, the government feels it must bail them out.    Russia imports most of its goods even compared to exports (oil/gas again) and prices are rising for ordinary Russians.   The oligarchs don't like that they are losing money so they are asking to be bailed out.

----------


## SergeMak

> It appears that very soon it`ll be fine to sell property in order to buy food. Like computer that I`m using right now.

 Позвольте мне дать вам дельный совет. Если вы твердо решили продать компьютер из-за страха приближающегося голода, сделайте это немедленно, так как, когда начнется голод, ваш компьютер никому не будет нужен. И ни в коем случае не храните вырученные деньги ни в рублях, ни в долларах, ни в евро, ни в какой другой валюте. Покупайте муку, крупы, бобовые - эти продукты содержат все необходимые для человека питательные вещества и могут храниться очень длительное время. Также не забудьте про соль, спички и растительное масло. Печка-буржуйка, а также теплая одежда, одеяла тоже пригодятся. Желательно также приобрести топор - это универальный инструмент как для добычи дров из мебели, так и для самообороны и защиты припасов. 
А если серьезно, я за свои 45 лет уже столько "концов всему" видел, что и реагировать лень. 
Вот если Йеллоустоунский супервулкан проснется - тогда действительно будет "КОНЕЦ ВСЕМУ", а то, что сейчас происходит - так, рядовая неурядица.   

> We started under same conditions 20 years ago. Their economies used to be damaged by our communist regime as well. And - again - they had no such amount of natural resources. That`s even if you make me to believe in your "new colony" absurdity. If we had enough will - we could diversify our economy, invest in education and scienece, but decided to spent much of an incomes on military (like useless Cruisers in Medittarian Sea, Mistral ship etc etc), Olympics 2014, FIFA 2018 and other toys. We had all kind of possibilites and fcuked them up. (And why everyone is so sure that americans are the reason why countries like South Korea or eastern Europe states came from ashes to prosperity? They have got nothing else to do to feed 60 millions Polands? That`s a complete russian-propaganda nonsence, explaining our laziness.)

 Чего-чего??? Откуда 60 млн. поляков?  
Кстати, не объясните, почему при ужасном коммунистическом режиме население Польши уверенно росло, а после 1991 г. убывает? (Версия про то, что ужасные коммунисты запрещали средства контрацепции не канает по причине того, что это брехня, как и многое из того, что вы тут живописали о тяжелой судьбе простых русских.)

----------


## Hanna

I decided to post anyway, because I realise that Basil77 and SergeMak are still around in the forum.  ::     

> Покупайте  муку, крупы, бобовые - эти продукты содержат все необходимые для  человека питательные вещества и могут храниться очень длительное время.  Также не забудьте про соль, спички и растительное масло.

 Yes, too true, I tried that... I realise that it's not as dramatic or serious as your experiences in Russia in the 1990s But when I was at university I failed 1 term and didn't get the student stipend for the next term.  
In  order to continue, I ended up living for 5 months on oat porridge,  broccoli, eggs, home baked bread and butter so I could pay the rent. My  luxury food was eggs! I couldn't even afford cheese! It was impossible  at the time, for a student to get a job, so I had no other choice but to  try and survive for five months on practically nothing. If anything I  was healthier than normal from this diet.   
I can laugh at it now  but it was really scary at the time, because the economy was incredibly  bad at the time I was at university, and the state bureacracy was a  nightmare. As a result, it was impossible to find a job that wasn't illegal. 
Where I live, all dairy products are about 20% cheaper, because of  the Russian import ban on EU food. Very noticeable. Everyone is trying  out new luxury yoghurts, and dairy products because it got a lot  cheaper.

----------


## UhOhXplode

Some good news.  ::  Today the ruble increased 8% against the dollar. BBC News - Russia's ex-finance boss in crisis warning but rouble rallies 
Also, China called Russia an irreplaceable strategic partner and agreements were made for currency swapping with the yuan. China wants to help Russia survive the economic crisis. China Offers Russia Help With Currency Swap Suggestion - Bloomberg

----------


## Lampada

> ...Кстати, не объясните, почему при ужасном коммунистическом режиме население Польши уверенно росло, а после 1991 г. убывает? ...

 Открывшаяся свобода передвижения может сыграла какую-то роль?  Только в Чикаго больше миллиона иммигрантов из Польши.  В Западной Европе живёт более двух миллионов.

----------


## hddscan

> Открывшаяся свобода передвижения может сыграла какую-то роль?  Только в Чикаго больше миллиона иммигрантов из Польши.  В Западной Европе живёт более двух миллионов.

 wiki says that Poles were immigrating massively starting late 19 century - History of the Poles in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Some numbers
Year	Speakers
1910	943,781
1920	1,077,392
1930	965,899
1940	801,680
1960	581,591
1970	419,006
1980	820,647
1990	723,483
2000	667,414
Foreign-born population only 
Judging by the numbers immigration actually slowing down not growing up, although I suspect that Poles simply started moving to the EU more

----------


## Lampada

Тема перелилась в оф-топик и разделена. См. _Demographic dynamics under socialism + tidbits of Putin + related stuff_

----------


## hddscan

looks like Suadis' talks about low oil price are just talks, their budget shows oil price being $80 per barrel in 2015 - Oil Trades Above $60 on Signs of Saudi Confidence in Rebound - Bloomberg

----------


## Hanna

> looks like Suadis' talks about low oil price are just talks, their budget shows oil price being $80 per barrel in 2015 - Oil Trades Above $60 on Signs of Saudi Confidence in Rebound - Bloomberg

 My understanding of the Saudi budget, was  that Saudi is overproducing in order to deliberately hurt its own enemy Iran, and also Russia, perhaps to please the US.  I got the impression that they said they were essentially going to continue doing that, and that they are prepared for the hit that their own economy will take. On the news it said somthing about how they were planning to use their "extensive currency reserves" during 2015. 
So I heard that and felt really bad for Russia and Iran. Don't know what to believe now.

----------


## Hanna

> We broke the law. We became a non-grata country. We used to be a full member of civilized world, now the whole world detests us. Don`t mix "balls" with russian stupidity. That doesn`t matter what the population of Crimea consists of (actually tatars and ukrainians were at least % 25-40 of it - so they had to leave their homes). The land belongs to Ukraine, that`s what matters. With russians or without on it.

 First of all, China, Brazil, India, Iran, Indonesia, South Africa and others couldn't give a darn about what happened in Ukraine, either way. The US and the EU doesn't constitute the entire world.  
Secondly, a lot of people in Europe and a fair number in North America realise that mainstream media is telling a pack of lies about Ukraine. 
They are only presenting only one side of the story, and they are presenting unsubstantiated rumours as facts because it suits their narrative. People need to hear both sides of the story with as much evidence as possible.  
If anyone is guilty of creating the situation in Ukraine, it's those who spurred on the coup d'etat. I see no proof that the Russian state is pulling the strings of the rebels in Donbass. All it's guilty of is not sealing its borders or preventing its citizens from supporting the rebels. As for Crimea, how the hell can anyone be against something that 90% of the population somewhere supports? That's being against democracy and that's essentially the position somebody condemning Russia for Crimea would have to take. Also, such a person would have to be some kind of history and culture revisionist.  
Russia has nothing to be ashamed of in regards to any of these events. The situation wouldn't even have occurred if Washington with the help of Brussels hadn't decided it wanted to oust Yanukovich. Russia didn't start it.  
If you want to feel bad about something your country is falsely accused of, I am not going to stop you. 
But it would make a lot more sense for you to feel bad about, for example, unfair treatment of people during the USSR times, or corruption and social injustices in modern Russia - these things are real and indisputable. 
America's political accusations about Russia's foreign policy are lies - it's rather sad that you would choose to believe it.

----------


## Antonio1986

Also to mention an other alerting issue that jeopardizes the currency stability in Russia.
It smells 1998.   international reserves.JPG

----------


## Antonio1986

Also to mention an other alerting issue that jeopardizes the currency stability in Russia (International currency / exchange reserves).
It smells 1998.   international reserves.JPG

----------


## Hanna

> Also to mention an other alerting issue that jeopardizes the currency stability in Russia (International currency / exchange reserves).
> It smells 1998.   international reserves.JPG

 I don't think so... It couldn't get that bad again. 
Russia's come a long way since then and whatever else people think about United Russia party, they have some very good expert advisers who know what they are doing. Including financial people.  
Also as many have pointed out, no other party will win an election in Russia, so whatever financial program is launched to tackle the problem, it will be allowed to run its course, probably good. Stability is good. That rarely happens in Europe, where everything is short term.  
"This too will pass" It's a temporary set back for a country that cannot but get richer. 
Just a shame that people will have hard times until this is over. 
Of course I have never been through anything like this - but Russians have, and are tough!  
In Stockholm where I come from, apparently 30% of all tourists are Russians (I didn't know that, but just read it in the paper)  and they are the best spenders of all.   This year, practically no Russians are coming. Apparently this will lead to huge losses in hotels and tourist shops.

----------


## maxmixiv

> First of all, China, Brazil, India, Iran, Indonesia, South Africa and others couldn't give a darn about what happened in Ukraine, either way. The US and the EU doesn't constitute the entire world.

 Yes, but how can you live without friendly states on your borders at all? It's not happy situation for Russia.

----------


## Crocodile

Well, I don't live in Russia, but if I'm allowed to suggest.. I don't really think there's a reason to panic in the long run. Russia still has lots of potential in the 'comparative advantage' side of the street. For example, let's take a look what else Russia can export:  
As we all know, the foundation of the EU economy is Germany, France, and Italy and Russian electricity is way more economical than in those countries, so make your own conclusion. Also, the infrastructure to deliver electricity seems to me being way cheaper and more reliable than the infrastructure to deliver something like natural gas and oil.  
Also, the demand for electricity is constantly growing in the EU. (And, yes, the electric cars could help..  ::  ) 
What do you think of that?

----------


## Hanna

It's insane how electricity prices have gone up. 
In my first flat in Sweden, it was included in the rent. Never even thought about it because it was so cheap. Now I am paying a small fortune for it.  
Privatization was supposed to make the prices cheaper. It's achieved the exact opposite - and why should I care about "choice" in electricity - it's not like it comes in different flavours of colours. I want cheap electricity but right now I can choose between 5 providers in the UK - all of whom rip me off and charge outrageous prices. 
The reason it's expensive in Denmark and Germany is because they use  mainly eco friendly electricity. Denmark does use nuclear power - rather pointless for a small country with two neighbouring countries who both have nuclear power plants right on their border. 
If Satan himself sold cheap energy Europe, regular people would probably buy from him. This "lets' not buy Russian energy" hysteria is completely driven buy the establishment. They know there is very little else they can do that would seriously hurt Russia. Even in the Soviet days, we bought oil and gas from Russia and now suddenly it's not ok anymore?! They'd rather have pensioners not afford proper food, than get cheap energy from Russia. Most ridiculous of all, there is serious talk about some pipeline under the Atlantic to import gas from North America instead. Our whole continent has gone bonkers. Let me out of this mad house

----------

