# Forum About Russia Culture and History  What don't you like about Russia?

## Артемида

People always say that they like your country, that it s beautiful when they visit it, but of course there are some things which people dont like, find shocking or strange(possibly you know such ones even if you werent in Russia?), but as we dont want to offend anybody we try not to mention such things during the conversation with native inhabitans...I am sure that russia is FAR away from ideal country, so...your _bad_ impressions  ::

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## BETEP

> I am sure that russia is FAR away from ideal country, so...your bad impressions

 What country is an ideal? It's not a problem when country has some strange features, but I can say what I really hate. 
1. Registration. No comment. One time I stayed at my friend's home (not in a hotel)--
2. Currency exchange. Now it's in the past but why I must show my passport to exchange hundred.
3. Traffic. Some drivers could easily drive over me even in pedestrian cross zone.

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## VendingMachine

Aaaaaah, I take it you haven't read that lass Heather her Gedankenscheisse...

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## waxwing

Corruption in the education system. Appalling. Can't talk about corruption in business, because I haven't been involved in any yet. 
In fact everything I don't like about Russia probably relates to this one concept - 'trust'. 
I agree about registration and visa bureaucracy in general - in particular, the fact that you have to register in every city you visit (well not exactly but anyway).
Also passport control at Sheremetyevo-2 - otherwise known as the 12th circle of hell. 
There are plenty of other things but they're probably just niggles.

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## Tu-160

*Waxwing*,, did you notice, living in Russia, that in Russian buildings, no matter how many front doors it has, only one of them is opened? The rest is always locked.

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## BETEP

> Can't talk about corruption in business, because I haven't been involved in any yet.

 It's everywhere!   

> Also passport control at Sheremetyevo-2 - otherwise known as the 12th circle of hell.

 What happened with you at passport control!?

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## waxwing

Passport control: for an inostranyets, it seems to take the clerks/officers or whatever approximately 1 minute to deal with each person - that's assuming there are no problems. It can be longer if there is an irregularity with the documents.
On a busy day, such as a Saturday in summer, they might (just might) have 5 officers working concurrently.
This results in horrendous queues in a hot, unpleasant environment. I waited 1.5 - 2 hours this Saturday.
I happen to know that this is not particularly unusual, it's happened to me before. The quickest I ever got through was in about 45 minutes (leaving is usually a bit quicker than coming in).
I've done a lot of travelling, and I don't think I ever encountered anything as bad as that. Maybe India, I don't really remember except the airport was damn hot there. 
The main thing about Russian doors is just the sheer number of them. It's quite normal to have to go through 4 between the street and your apartment. That is really strange for an Englishman, who never has more than 2. 'Fort Knox' as we always used to say.

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## Scorpio

> Passport control: for an inostranyets, it seems to take the clerks/officers or whatever approximately 1 minute to deal with each person - that's assuming there are no problems. It can be longer if there is an irregularity with the documents.
> On a busy day, such as a Saturday in summer, they might (just might) have 5 officers working concurrently.
> This results in horrendous queues in a hot, unpleasant environment. I waited 1.5 - 2 hours this Saturday.
> I happen to know that this is not particularly unusual, it's happened to me before. The quickest I ever got through was in about 45 minutes (leaving is usually a bit quicker than coming in).
> I've done a lot of travelling, and I don't think I ever encountered anything as bad as that. Maybe India, I don't really remember except the airport was damn hot there.

 Only 1 minute for passport/visa control? This seems fast enough to me.
The problem looks more like too less controllers -- or, probably, too much visitors.   

> The main thing about Russian doors is just the sheer number of them. It's quite normal to have to go through 4 between the street and your apartment. That is really strange for an Englishman, who never has more than 2. 'Fort Knox' as we always used to say.

 Hint: try comparing climate in England and Russia.  ::

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## VendingMachine

*waxwing*   

> Passport control: for an inostranyets, it seems to take the clerks/officers or whatever approximately 1 minute to deal with each person - that's assuming there are no problems. It can be longer if there is an irregularity with the documents.
> On a busy day, such as a Saturday in summer, they might (just might) have 5 officers working concurrently.
> This results in horrendous queues in a hot, unpleasant environment. I waited 1.5 - 2 hours this Saturday.
> I happen to know that this is not particularly unusual, it's happened to me before. The quickest I ever got through was in about 45 minutes (leaving is usually a bit quicker than coming in).
> I've done a lot of travelling, and I don't think I ever encountered anything as bad as that. Maybe India, I don't really remember except the airport was damn hot there.

 This is a border, for crying out loud! It wasn't made for people to just sail across. It's our primary filter, the first bastion of natural selection - weed out all the weaklings before they infiltrate our streets say the Russian people. If you're not tough enough to wait for a few hours you're not fit to see the rest of Russia. Good things come to those who wait.    

> The main thing about Russian doors is just the sheer number of them. It's quite normal to have to go through 4 between the street and your apartment. That is really strange for an Englishman, who never has more than 2. 'Fort Knox' as we always used to say.

 You love _pirozhki_, don't you? Especially those of the _porky_ variety? Are you being paid for spreading lies about my country? I have never seen a place where I'd have to go through more than 2 doors in Russia in all my born days. To get home I need to go through 2 doors - one to enter the building and one to get into the flat. To get to the office I have to go through 1 door. Lies, lies, perpetual lies of an uncovered English mole.

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## Dogboy182

My parents complain that russians are too rude, or cold, whatever. i see how they could see that, but im not complaining. In america u cant walk down the street without 50 strangers saying hello and asking you how you are doing, it get's anoying.

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## waxwing

Actually with the one minute thing, it doesn't sound much but it is (+ it's true there really arent' enough people doing it concurrently). I think the difference is that in many other countries they're only checking your documents, whereas in Russia they're actively filling in forms (both paper and computer).
I've never been to the States and I'd be interested to know what it's like there nowadays with the new security measures post 911. I bet it's not fun, anyway. 
With the doors, well VM, that's a bit sad really, you can do better..  
And 'this is a border..'? Well that's why I compared it with experience in other countries... 
Back to doors: yes, climate must be part of it, for example with the double doors in the podyezd .. but what's probably the real difference is that many people have double doors, sometimes reinforced with all sorts of things, at the actual entrance to their apartments. Anyone seen Bowling for Columbine, where he goes down the street in Canada and checks if all the doors are unlocked? Of course that wouldn't happen in London any more than it would in Moscow.   ::   Used to be like that in at least some parts of England, but no more sadly. 
Secret Agent waxwing, licensed to spread propaganda about Russian doors  ::

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## VendingMachine

> With the doors, well VM, that's a bit sad really, you can do better..

 I don't believe it, I'm getting a dressing down from the Goering of Masterussian himself.   

> And 'this is a border..'? Well that's why I compared it with experience in other countries...

 In other countries people like to lick the foreign visitor's posterior. We don't. We like to patience torture them. Before you enter the Cave of Wonders you must prove your worthiness.   

> Back to doors: yes, climate must be part of it

 Climate? In bloody Stavropol? Now spreading lies about "Russian winters"? Sure, in Russia men have brass testicles because of their "cold winters". Male monkeys from "civilized" countries where the weather is kept under control through regular democratic elections, even if made entirely from brass, will still lose theirs in a matter of seconds.    

> for example with the double doors in the podyezd ..

 Fffffwhat? Doors in the podyezd? And what the hell is a podyezd? If memory doesn't fail me "podyezd" is a stretch of road leading to a building. What doors can there be? You must be raving. "Doors" in fences are called "gates" or "qualitki" in Russian.    

> but what's probably the real difference is that many people have double doors, sometimes reinforced with all sorts of things, at the actual entrance to their apartments.

  Hmm, I don't know anyone with a double door let alone a metal one. Are you sure you can tell an apartment from a bank? Or perhaps it was a prison cell? I used to live opposite prison, now I live opposite my home...   

> Secret Agent waxwing, licensed to spread propaganda about Russian doors

 A seemingly innocent lie like that can easily damage my country's reputation. Therefore I will counter your every attempt at spreading them. It's amazing how my absense has made the usual anti-Russian sentiment endemic to this forum stronger than ever.   ::

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## Артемида

> for example with the double doors in the podyezd ..
> 			
> 		  Fffffwhat? Doors in the podyezd? And what the hell is a podyezd? If memory doesn't fail me "podyezd" is a stretch of road leading to a building.

 I guess *waxwing* ment double doors in flat...well it s pure truth and it s evrywhere, at least in my house and in подъезд(i think this is not the way to the house it s the space inside of the house - лестничные площадки) we also have 2 doors - one is metal with a speacial code and then a usual wooden one - possibly it s strange , but terrorism and drunken бомжи - people are afraid of them, England is just lucky that you dont have Chechnya and level of life is higher...  

> My parents complain that russians are too rude, or cold, whatever

 everyone?  ::  why?

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## BJ

Waxwing - entry into the US has grown more time consuming and aggravating since 9/11. There are often very long queues at immigration especially in Chicago. Woe betide you if you make any sort of joke or snide comment to the immigration officers or heaven forbid have something wrong with the form you've filled in on the plane. Transferring between terminals within airports is also time consuming because you move out of secure areas into general areas and then have to queue again to be checked - shoes off, pockets empty, jackets off etc and every fourth or so person is selected for a special check. I don't mind security measures - they should keep us all safe BUT terrorists will just find other ways to get bombs etc on planes.

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## scotcher

The hassles I've had getting into Russia through SVO immigration control are nothing compared to the hassles my wife has had trying to get into the UK through Heathrow immigration control.

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by VendingMachine     
> 			
> 				for example with the double doors in the podyezd ..
> 			
> 		  Fffffwhat? Doors in the podyezd? And what the hell is a podyezd? If memory doesn't fail me "podyezd" is a stretch of road leading to a building.   I guess *waxwing* ment double doors in flat...well it s pure truth

 It is a darn lie and he ruddy well knows it.   

> and it s evrywhere, at least in my house

 So if it's in your house, it's everywhere, right? Female logic at its best.    

> and in подъезд(i think this is not the way to the house it s the space inside of the house - лестничные площадки)

 1. "подъезд" is what you drive along to get to a place - the name stems from the verb "подъезжать", that is "to drive to" a place, as in "они подъехали на бомбе" - "they rolled up in a BMW"
2. that what you're probably talking about is called "парадное", not "подъезд".   

> we also have 2 doors - one is metal with a speacial code and then a usual wooden one - possibly it s strange , but terrorism and drunken бомжи - people are afraid of them,

 Pray tell me how such a door can stop a terrorist. Can _you_ get to your flat? What makes you think someone hell-bent on carrying out his/her bloody act of terror can't?   

> England is just lucky that you dont have Chechnya

 England has a lot to worry about. Watch some news on the telly for a change...   

> and level of life is higher...

 God, naivity at its utmost. Do you seriously believe there are fewer _бомжи_ in England? They have whole armies of them. Many even walk about with mean looking dogs in tow. And you will be amazed at the number of words they have for бомжи in English - dozens of terms with a lot of regional variation. By contrast we have very few words for бомж in Russian.   

> My parents complain that russians are too rude, or cold, whatever

 That is true. Of all silly generalizations this isn't such a silly one. We are very rude indeed. Look at me - am I a nice guy? Hell no. Can you remember a single occassion when I was polite to someone on this board? All you get from me is negativism and rude personal attacks. We're are like that. Dismissed, private.

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## Friendy

> and in подъезд(i think this is not the way to the house it s the space inside of the house - лестничные площадки)
> 			
> 		  1. "подъезд" is what you drive along to get to a place - the name stems from the verb "подъезжать", that is "to drive to" a place, as in "они подъехали на бомбе" - "they rolled up in a BMW"

 That's not the only meaning, what Артемида wrote is also right. http://mega.km.ru/ojigov/encyclop.asp?T ... 7%E4#srch0
For example, the following phrases are pretty common (in Moscow):
Чтобы переждать дождь мы зашли в ближайший подъезд.
В подъезде тусовалась молодёжь.

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## waxwing

> Originally Posted by waxwing  With the doors, well VM, that's a bit sad really, you can do better..   I don't believe it, I'm getting a dressing down from the Goering of Masterussian himself.     
> 			
> 				And 'this is a border..'? Well that's why I compared it with experience in other countries...
> 			
> 		  In other countries people like to lick the foreign visitor's posterior. We don't. We like to patience torture them. Before you enter the Cave of Wonders you must prove your worthiness.

 OK, I retract my former statement about poor form, you're clearly in fine fettle.  ::    

> Back to doors: yes, climate must be part of it
> 			
> 		  Climate? In bloody Stavropol?

 My experience runs to three cities actually, the others being Moscow and Izhevsk. Oh and Pyatigorsk, but that don't really count, one night  ::    

> Now spreading lies about "Russian winters"? Sure, in Russia men have brass testicles because of their "cold winters". Male monkeys from "civilized" countries where the weather is kept under control through regular democratic elections, even if made entirely from brass, will still lose theirs in a matter of seconds.

 <Applause>   ::   ::  . Stark staring mad, but very creative.   

> for example with the double doors in the podyezd ..
> 			
> 		  Fffffwhat? Doors in the podyezd? And what the hell is a podyezd? If memory doesn't fail me "podyezd" is a stretch of road leading to a building. What doors can there be? You must be raving. "Doors" in fences are called "gates" or "qualitki" in Russian.  
> [quote:2s4m4psk]but what's probably the real difference is that many people have double doors, sometimes reinforced with all sorts of things, at the actual entrance to their apartments.

  Hmm, I don't know anyone with a double door let alone a metal one. Are you sure you can tell an apartment from a bank? Or perhaps it was a prison cell? I used to live opposite prison, now I live opposite my home...
[/quote:2s4m4psk]
Hehe that was also very good that bit about the prison, but tell me what on earth did you mean about 'now I live opposite my home'  ::     

> Secret Agent waxwing, licensed to spread propaganda about Russian doors    A seemingly innocent lie like that can easily damage my country's reputation. Therefore I will counter your every attempt at spreading them. It's amazing how my absense has made the usual anti-Russian sentiment endemic to this forum stronger than ever.

 Well I can only wish you well on your heroic crusade against windmills.. sorry I mean err lies or err what was it you were against?  ::

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## Friendy

> Hehe that was also very good that bit about the prison, but tell me what on earth did you mean about 'now I live opposite my home'

 Maybe this Russian variant will help: Вы слышали об Иванове, который жил напротив тюрьмы? Теперь он живёт напротив своего дома.

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## waxwing

I don't know exactly where that mistake about 'podyezd' got into my head. Sure, VM, I can understand that logically it must mean something like 'driveway' (?) because of the yezd bit. I think I even remember seeing a sign on a driveway of some sort into a business complex. But after the discussion I still don't quite understand. What would you call the main doors entering into the korpus/apartment block? Not just двери, surely?  ::  
And to scotcher: I expected someone to bring that up. I can well believe it, I was just comparing passport control specifically with that in other countries, for me as a UK citizen (South America, the sub continent, south east asia - even eastern europe before the EU admission - as far as I can remember, it's the worst I've ever experienced. I don't blame the people who work there - they work damn hard and it's a thankless task...)

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## Alex_Ivanov

About doors... I have double door on my flat and it's not because of security. When I had one door, it was simply cold during the winter. So I add another one. 
The same with windows. My windows consist of three glasses with two gaps between them. Otherwise it will be simply too cold in a flat.

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## Propp

May I drop in?
Sometimes I thought about the doors in English-American country houses and in Russians ones.  In Russia a house (I mean a country house, or any 1-2 storeyed separate house) is supposed to have an antechamber, which is not 'a living place' but just 'a buffer zone' as it to say. In England and America many houses have the entrance door wich leads directly to the "living zone", and this looks quite strange to me (like being naked in an ordinary city street, not in nudist camp), althouh I know that this is a custom. That's why in foreign films "about Russia" you always can say that there's something wrong when some bad guys are breaking doors and going straight to the family sitting around dinner table or something like that.

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## Alex_Ivanov

> May I drop in?
> In Russia a house (I mean a country house, or any 1-2 storeyed separate house) is supposed to have an antechamber, which is not 'a living place' but just 'a buffer zone' as it to say.

 Some kind of buffer zone is always present. In a flat it's called "прихожая".

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## VendingMachine

> In England and America many houses have the entrance door wich leads directly to the "living zone", and this looks quite strange to me (like being naked in an ordinary city street, not in nudist camp), althouh I know that this is a custom. That's why in foreign films "about Russia" you always can say that there's something wrong when some bad guys are breaking doors and going straight to the family sitting around dinner table or something like that.

 Ha-ha-ha, naivity at its utmost. When I was living in the UK it was in a semidetached house and it had a massive "buffer zone" in the form of a corridor leading from the main entrance to the kitchen (to t'scullery as the landlord would put it) - on the right and kind of halfway through to the kitchen there was a relatively tiny living room. To get to the first floor you'd have to walk up a flight of apples and pears from that same corridor. On the first floor there was also a buffer zone in the form of a landing (though somewhat smaller than on the ground floor). One couldn't just enter the house and find oneself in a room.

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by Propp  May I drop in?
> In Russia a house (I mean a country house, or any 1-2 storeyed separate house) is supposed to have an antechamber, which is not 'a living place' but just 'a buffer zone' as it to say.   Some kind of buffer zone is always present. In a flat it's called "прихожая".

 Прихожая? First time I've heard it called _that_. Where I live we call it коридор or холл. In my vocabulary a прихожая can only be found in a palace, i.g. "мраморная прихожая". The word sounds extremely posh, nearly as posh as the way some people say "музЭй" and "берЭт".

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## VendingMachine

> I don't know exactly where that mistake about 'podyezd' got into my head. Sure, VM, I can understand that logically it must mean something like 'driveway' (?) because of the yezd bit. I think I even remember seeing a sign on a driveway of some sort into a business complex. But after the discussion I still don't quite understand. What would you call the main doors entering into the korpus/apartment block? Not just двери, surely?

  That's called "парадная" (older people migt say "парадное"). I think "подъезд" is what uneducated people say, because clearly подъезд derives from "подъезжать": "подъезд к дому был закрыт" or "к этому дому плохой подъезд", "много машин припарковано незаконным образом прямо на нашем подъезде", "я здесь живу, поэтому это мой подъезд, уберите, пожалуйста, свой драндулет", etc.  
That link Friendy gave - just look at the name - it's "mega.km.ru", surely, a reputable source on Russian language usage. (I think guys at "soopa.poopa.mega.ultra.com" know better.) Also, look at how they've spelt Ожегов - it's Словарь Ож*е*гова, not Ож*и*гова. Since when is someone's quick HTML hack considered a reputable source on Russian language usage?  
I'm beginning to suspect that you're not the only corrupt person on this forum. It certainly feels like your tentacles are slowly beginning to reach other forum members...

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## scotcher

You've forgotten to take your medication again VM.

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## bad manners

Nope, Vendor, even your supposedly Peterbusrgish up-bringing (which your recently denounced) could not justify your pretentiousness. The word подъезд is well known in St. Pete, as a synonym of парадная or лестница. Your example "много машин припарковано незаконным образом прямо на нашем подъезде" is artificial: any native Russian speaker would say "много машин припарковано незаконным образом прямо *у* наш*его* подъезд*а*". 
The thing about прихожая is completely FUBAR. Холл the standard term for it, gimme a break. 
Finally, you really ought to pay a visit to публичка and tell them you want the dictionary specifically by Ож*и*гов. I would just like to see their faces.

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## VendingMachine

> The word подъезд is well known in St. Pete, as a synonym of парадная or лестница.

 Well-known to whom? I've lived in St Pete long enough and this is the first time in my life I've heard the word подъезд used in the sense of парадная. BTW, парадная and лестница aren't synonyms at all.   

> Your example "много машин припарковано незаконным образом прямо на нашем подъезде" is artificial: any native Russian speaker would say "много машин припарковано незаконным образом прямо *у* наш*его* подъезд*а*".

 I disagree. I'm a native speaker of Russian and I find yours incorrect. You can say "припарковано у нашей парадной" (though I can't physically imagine how that's possible because there's always a short path between your парадная and your подъезд often with some shrubbery along the edges, so one can't really block the entrance to your парадная), but you certainly can't say "у нашего подъезда", because it would mean that those cars are parked somewhere else close to our driveway. If you mean they are in your driveway, you should say "на нашем подъезде".   

> The thing about прихожая is completely FUBAR. Холл the standard term for it, gimme a break.

  Yes, this is what we call it. Прихожая is a stupid high-flown word.   

> Finally, you really ought to pay a visit to публичка and tell them you want the dictionary specifically by Ож*и*гов. I would just like to see their faces.

 What is  публичка? Do you mean some kind of library? The public library perhaps? Anyway, I don't know of Ожигов, I only know Ожегов and that was exactly my point, but do we read people's posts, do we <SELF-CENCORED>.

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## Friendy

> I think "подъезд" is what uneducated people say, because clearly подъезд derives from "подъезжать": "подъезд к дому был закрыт" or "к этому дому плохой подъезд", "много машин припарковано незаконным образом прямо на нашем подъезде", "я здесь живу, поэтому это мой подъезд, уберите, пожалуйста, свой драндулет", etc.

 No one argues with it's deriving from "подъезжать", your meaning is the most direct one but it doesn’t mean that the other meanings of this word are wrong.   

> That link Friendy gave - just look at the name - it's "mega.km.ru", surely, a reputable source on Russian language usage. (I think guys at "soopa.poopa.mega.ultra.com" know better.) Also, look at how they've spelt Ожегов - it's Словарь Ож*е*гова, not Ож*и*гова. Since when is someone's quick HTML hack considered a reputable source on Russian language usage?

 The misspelling in the link doesn't mean anything, such things are pretty common when people transliterate Russian names and words for the name of their files, folders and so on. When they spell it in Russian (on the site) they do it correctly.
Anyway, a quote from Lingvo:
подъезд 
1) entrance, porch, doorway 
2) drive; approach(es) 
Btw, yesterday in a cartoon (the Soviet one) I heard the following phrase: Мы живём в одном подъезде (the other time I wouldn’t pay any attention to it ‘cause it’s very common but thanks to this discussion I did  ::  ). Here “подъезд” means a set of apartments belonging to the same entrance.

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## VendingMachine

Another term for холл is сени, but we use it only about very large холльи (some would say холл*а* I presume).

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## bad manners

> Originally Posted by bad manners  The word подъезд is well known in St. Pete, as a synonym of парадная or лестница.   Well-known to whom? I've lived in St Pete long enough and this is the first time in my life I've heard the word подъезд used in the sense of парадная. BTW, парадная and лестница aren't synonyms at all.

 Right. I misspelt парадное after you. Парадное и лестница are synonyms, synonyms do not have to be exactly equivalent, they only need to overlap, and these do (any парадное is a лестница).   

> The thing about прихожая is completely FUBAR. Холл the standard term for it, gimme a break.

 And "hall" is not. Yeah, _right_.   

> but do we read people's posts, do we <SELF-CENCORED>.

 Admittedly, I misread it. My apologies.   

> холльи ... холла ...

 Have you become friends with 44 Canon? Smoke the same stuff or something?

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## waxwing

VM, if you need any private tuition in colloquial Russian, my rates are very reasonable   ::

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## VendingMachine

[quote=bad manners][quote=VendingMachine] 

> (any парадное is a лестница).

 I am forced to disagree. A one-storey house has a парадное but has no лестница.   

> The thing about прихожая is completely FUBAR. Холл the standard term for it, gimme a break.

  

> And "hall" is not. Yeah, _right_

 .Yep. Snobs say "прихожая". The same snobs who say "музЭй" if you know what I'm talking about.   

> but do we read people's posts, do we <SELF-CENCORED>.
> 			
> 		  Admittedly, I misread it. My apologies.

 Apologies accepted.   

> [quote:kr3clta1]холльи ... холла ...

 Have you become friends with 44 Canon? Smoke the same stuff or something?[/quote:kr3clta1][/quote:kr3clta1][/quote:kr3clta1]I don't understand your comment.

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## VendingMachine

> VM, if you need any private tuition in colloquial Russian, my rates are very reasonable

 Why would I want any tuition in Russian?

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## Артемида

> Originally Posted by Артемида  I guess *waxwing* ment double doors in flat...well it s pure truth   It is a darn lie and he ruddy well knows it.

 it seems to me that you dont live in russia now...  

> [quote:1cmltgl0] and it s evrywhere, at least in my house

 So if it's in your house, it's everywhere, right? Female logic at its best. [/quote:1cmltgl0]
in all Moscow almost evryone has double doors, dont try to deny this.  

> 2. that what you're probably talking about is called "парадное", not "подъезд".

 i never use the word парадное and actually it is weird to say in such way for moscovites and by the way for all the rest country exept St. petersburg - majority of people do use the word *подъезд* so let's dont argue about this pointless topic - i opened this thread not for such discussions  ::    

> [quote:1cmltgl0]England is just lucky that you dont have Chechnya

 England has a lot to worry about. Watch some news on the telly for a change...[/quote:1cmltgl0]I do believe that they worry about something (football for example) yeah, and explosions in metro, explosions in houses like in 1999, IRA's shakhids in London explode themselves near hotels...  

> My parents complain that russians are too rude, or cold, whatever

 "we"? actually you said only about yourself or is this раздвоение личности?  ::   
So...only doors and corruption are disadvantages of Russia? Well, then i think we are almost ideal  ::

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## bad manners

> I am forced to disagree. A one-storey house has a парадное but has no лестница.

 Hmm, that may be true. But if we just focus on multi-storey apartment blocks, than all the three words are synonymic. I think we can even drop "multi-storey" in this case.   

> Yep. Snobs say "прихожая". The same snobs who say "музЭй" if you know what I'm talking about.

 In my experience it is exactly the other way around. Those saying "музЭй" are a lot more likely to say "hall" and even "lobby". To say nothing of a couple of French borrowings.   

> [quote:13bd5dzk][quote:13bd5dzk]холльи ... холла ...

 Have you become friends with 44 Canon? Smoke the same stuff or something?[/quote:13bd5dzk]I don't understand your comment.[/quote:13bd5dzk]
That guy is creative with grammar just like you are here.

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## VendingMachine

> in all Moscow almost evryone has double doors, dont try to deny this.

 Ffffffwhat? You been to every flat in Moscow? Give me a break! I know a lot of people in Moscow and I've visited them many times - I don't think any of them has double doors. I just love it how you speak on behalf of ALL RUSSIAN PEOLE.   

> i never use the word парадное and actually it is weird to say in such way for moscovites and by the way for all the rest country exept St. petersburg - majority of people do use the word *подъезд*

  Yeah, sure, the rest of the country agrees with you, after all if you do something in Moscow the rest of the country does it your way, only stupid a-holes from St Pete do it differently, sure. Yeah, right, the PEOPLE OF RUSSIA agree with you. Pathetic.   

> so let's dont argue about this pointless topic - i opened this thread not for such discussions

 If you can't stand the heat get the f... out of the kitchen.    

> [quote:1mrdthaq][quote:1mrdthaq]England is just lucky that you dont have Chechnya

 England has a lot to worry about. Watch some news on the telly for a change...[/quote:1mrdthaq]I do believe that they worry about something (football for example) yeah, and explosions in metro, explosions in houses like in 1999, IRA's shakhids in London explode themselves near hotels...[/quote:1mrdthaq]
No, IRA terrorists use other tactics - they don't use suicide bombers, they plant bombs to blow up buildings, trainstations, warehouses, etc. Often there's a police tip-off and people are evaquated in time, but there have been massive casualties in the past nevertheless. In addition to IRA they have a lot of other a-holes to worry about, including the post 9/11 "muslim terror threat". Also, according to statistics, an average Englishman risks having his house burgled twice in his lifetime. Crime in inner cities can be a real problem too. Sometimes crazy maniacs barge into chuches and chop people up with katana swords. Pedophiles rape their children. The police has been caught smashing black people's faces against tables at their police stations on a number of occasions. Their motorways too can be lethal for some - there have been some horrifying pile ups involving 100+ vehicles at a time over the last few years. Documentaries have been shot about some of the worst ones (but you don't watch such documentaries, you prefer to be ignorant but opinionated, you repeat like an automaton every word of that crap they hammered into you at school with gusto as if you were savouring the taste). As you can see an Englishman's life can be very stressful. But getting down to our brass tacks, I still don't understand how a metal door can possibly stop a terrorist... Somehow you've managed to dodge this question.   

> My parents complain that russians are too rude, or cold, whatever

 "we"? actually you said only about yourself or is this раздвоение личности?  ::  [/quote:1mrdthaq]It was the royal we, you horrible common flower girl!  We, VM the Great Czar Уса Русса, are rude.  ::   ::   ::  (But of course most other people are also rude, _don't try to deny this_.)

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## greubau

Rest of country huh?
Well I don't know about the rest, but for one we in Izhevsk also have this подъезд meaning. And I didn't ever heared anyone using "Парадное" for the same thing. Some people on this board used to search for dialects of Russian alot.. perhaps they should note this obvious difference of St-Pete Russian Dialect  ::  
About the metal doors, now.. We also have lots of them (2VM: I didn't say 'all', right?), both on the "подъезд"s and the flats inside. Sometimes there are even more of them - one metal door behind which there is a hall to two or three flats, each of which may also have the metal door..  ::  but I've only seen one such appartment building. 
The purpose of flat's reinforced doors is obviously to protect from the flat robbery, and the fact that lots of people installed them once tells something about the actual need for them. I for one may say that once some junkies actually tried to break in to my flat.. it seems that they've been so drunk that have forgot that the person they tried to find here have long been moved... Well maybe something's wrong with the city part I live in  ::  But hey, it's still Russia, right? I also heard stories about how the flat robbers removed even the metal doors using the lift, but maybe this is the urban myth  ::  
The purpose of "подъезд" doors here primarily is to protect not as much from the thieves/terrorists, but from the youngsters and the бомжи who are used to use the "подъезд"s as the drinking place and the toilet. As such things tends to happen at night when doors are usually closed, the подъезд doors are actually doing their job. 
Well now, the picture is unplausible to foreigners I guess.. But this is the reality. What can I say? Maybe - don't come to Izhevsk? Instead go to the Peterburg with парадноеs and no metal doors on them  ::  because every lies which unfortunately are truths in Izhevsks, are only just a lies there, according to the VM of course. That's to the discussion on the difference between Moscow/St-Pete and the rest of the Russia. Because most foreigners probably will only see the former rather than latter, maybe they really better off hearing to VM rather than people like me. 
P.S. Any English grammar corrections are appreciated  ::

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## Tambakis

> *Dogboy182 wrote:*     
> 			
> 				My parents complain that russians are too rude, or cold, whatever
> 			
> 		  That is true. Of all silly generalizations this isn't such a silly one. We are very rude indeed. Look at me - am I a nice guy? Hell no. Can you remember a single occassion when I was polite to someone on this board? All you get from me is negativism and rude personal attacks. We're are like that. Dismissed, private.

 I know I'm a bit late, but I remember one occasion.  ::   I asked about the diminutives of Fyodor.

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## VendingMachine

*greubau*, are you related to H.C. Andersen by any chance? you tell wonderful fairytales. Double doors to keep them junkies out! One single door not made from cardboard would have done the job. I think some people in your town simply derive extreme pleasure out of incarcerating themselves. Well, it's their choice, just don't go a-saying the rest of the country is like you lot. Oh, hell, has waxwing converted you too?

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## waxwing

greubau, you don't go to Volodya's classes in school 27 do you by any chance?
(ex-volunteer here..)

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## TheMoonMonst3r

That I wasn't born there.  Or next to there.  Or any damn place near there.  Noooooooo... my motherland _just has to be_  next to two sleazeball countries (if you're Canada or Mexico, please bend over and I'll stick it in when I have time). 
I'm seriously going to marry a russian princess.  And then a Filipina princess.

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## JB

We have 2 big thick doors to our Moscow flat with 6 locks, all our neighbors have the same. Keeps out the cold, robbers, and drunk kids looking for mischeif. 
What I really hate about Russia now is the stray dogs outside and no rules for dog owners inside. People leave their poor pets locked in the flat for the weekend while they go to the dacha. Barking and howling 24 hours/day all weekend.  On weekdays the lifts reek of dog pee because the owners don't walk their pets often enough and the dogs can't make it to the street in time.  Then the large number of stray dogs plus the large number of pets using the paths and parkways for toilet make our neighborhoods very unpleasant.

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## bad manners

I don't think your lift reeks of dog piss. Most often Russian lifts reek of human piss, just like elsewhere in the world -- except elsewhere in the world it does not happen nearly so often as in Russia. But it does happen, and many Russians are very surprised when they hear it.

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## VendingMachine

> I don't think your lift reeks of dog piss. Most often Russian lifts reek of human piss, just like elsewhere in the world -- except elsewhere in the world it does not happen nearly so often as in Russia. But it does happen, and many Russians are very surprised when they hear it.

 I once caught a Dutch youth urinating in my lift - he was 17 and already had very few teeth left. Silly wee bugger, I'd've let him use my bog.

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## greubau

> you don't go to Volodya's classes in school 27 do you by any chance?
> (ex-volunteer here..)

 Nope, finished school long ago.   

> *greubau*, are you related to H.C. Andersen by any chance? you tell wonderful fairytales. Double doors to keep them junkies out! One single door not made from cardboard would have done the job.

 Perhaps you've misread me.. Stair door (one per stair - just as you say) is against the junkies. Reinforced flat door is against the criminals.    

> I think some people in your town simply derive extreme pleasure out of incarcerating themselves.

 Come on, in many (most?) old buildings the "default" flat door opens inside the flat and thus is easy to push off with shoulder if one is not distrofic. If you have anything valuable in the flat, such an easy target would make the robbery more possible anywhere. Of course this may be not valid for the newer appartment buildings.   

> Well, it's their choice, just don't go a-saying the rest of the country is like you lot.

 I didn't say anything like that. But then again, why should it be too different?
I don't really see what all fuss is about. If I say e.g. that some people are replacing the sanitation in their new flats since they simply don't like the one which were there when they move in, would you cry here denying this? Well the doors are pretty similar issue. Why you've taken this whole doors thing as offensive to Russia is beyound me...   

> Oh, hell, has waxwing converted you too?

 No, I think not. btw, converted to what?

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## waxwing

Don't worry, I wasn't suggesting you were a schoolkid  ::  .. these are evening classes. Nye vazhno.

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## Propp

About "парадное" and "подъезд".
I think the term "парадное" comes from "парадное крыльцо", "парадный подъезд" (remember Nekrasov's "Размышления у парадного подъезда"?) which in XVIII—XIX centuries meant the "FRONT or OFFICIAL doors", the "doors used for ceremonies". They had back entrances too, you know, for servants and kitchen maids. To my mind, to call the single entrance of a modern house "парадное" is illogical, because very often there is only one entrance, and besides, very often it looks so that you cannot call it "ceremonial" however hard you tried. That's why everywhere it is called "подъезд". I agree that in St. Petersbourg as well in Moscow and some other cities there are old houses left with "main" and "black" entrances and this term has its right to be used there, but it is noncence to use this word generally.

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## VendingMachine

> To my mind, to call the single entrance of a modern house "парадное" is illogical.... I agree that in St. Petersbourg as well in Moscow and some other cities there are old houses left with "main" and "black" entrances and this term has its right to be used there, but it is noncence to use this word generally.

 What drivel! If I was to apply logic to everything I say I'd have to keep my bleetin' north and south shut 24/7. And so would you, sunshine.

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## Propp

Of course I know that this is silly thing to apply the rules of mathematical logic to the living language. This is only one of all possible explanations. Besides, the "norm" in language is not what is taught in school or what is written in dictionaries, the norm is what is spoken in this or that group of the society (in different social levels as well as geogrphical regions). One group has its own norm, another one has another norm etc. I am from that group tha doesn't use the "парадное" word and does use the "подъезд" word.

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## astarz41

Ohh yea my grandma in St. Pete also has 2 doors to her flat. The outside one is metal. Both of them have a couple locks, so there are like 5 locks all together that you have to lock and unlock every time. She also has those really hi-tech keys to them which are supposed to be impossible to make a copy of. Me, I couldn't get inside even if all the locks were unlocked because the door was so hard to move! 
Also, a lot of buildings have metal doors with code locks on them, but since they are so old it's really easy to tell which three buttons need to be pushed.

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## waxwing

Pretty much every foreigner here has a story about getting locked *in* at some time or another  ::  .. the doors are so effing complicated. 
astarz, прости меня малыш, ду-ду-ду-ду-ру! 
I like those doors with the 'magic' keys where you just kind of put it in but don't turn it .. they always seem stupid to me, like maybe it's really easy to break in. But I don't know.

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## VendingMachine

> Ohh yea my grandma in St. Pete also has 2 doors to her flat. The outside one is metal. Both of them have a couple locks, so there are like 5 locks all together that you have to lock and unlock every time. She also has those really hi-tech keys to them which are supposed to be impossible to make a copy of. Me, I couldn't get inside even if all the locks were unlocked because the door was so hard to move! 
> Also, a lot of buildings have metal doors with code locks on them, but since they are so old it's really easy to tell which three buttons need to be pushed.

 Where in St Petersburg have you seen metal doors? Banks, prisons? I live in St Pete, so stop telling lies - if your granny likes playing soldiers, fine, but please don't speak about the rest of the city. Metal doors with code locks? Where on earth are those? Secret weapon factories? A word of advice in your ear - knock off the booze, it's beginning to really show.

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## astarz41

> Where in St Petersburg have you seen metal doors? Banks, prisons? I live in St Pete, so stop telling lies - if your granny likes playing soldiers, fine, but please don't speak about the rest of the city. Metal doors with code locks? Where on earth are those? Secret weapon factories? A word of advice in your ear - knock off the booze, it's beginning to really show.

   ::  Knock off the smart a** image VM, it's getting really annoying. 
A lot of apartments have double doors, one of them made of metal. Often it is covered in wood paneling from the outside, so it doesn't look like metal. 
The code locks are on the doors leading into the building itself from the outside. They are very common in apartment buildings away from the very center of the city. The lock is usually a 3 digit code or sometimes it is an intercom and you can call the person you're there to visit and they will unlock the door for you.   

> astarz, прости меня малыш, ду-ду-ду-ду-ру!

   ::   Gluk'oza!

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## Линдзи

> Originally Posted by astarz41  Ohh yea my grandma in St. Pete also has 2 doors to her flat. The outside one is metal. Both of them have a couple locks, so there are like 5 locks all together that you have to lock and unlock every time. She also has those really hi-tech keys to them which are supposed to be impossible to make a copy of. Me, I couldn't get inside even if all the locks were unlocked because the door was so hard to move! 
> Also, a lot of buildings have metal doors with code locks on them, but since they are so old it's really easy to tell which three buttons need to be pushed.   Where in St Petersburg have you seen metal doors? Banks, prisons? I live in St Pete, so stop telling lies - if your granny likes playing soldiers, fine, but please don't speak about the rest of the city. Metal doors with code locks? Where on earth are those? Secret weapon factories? A word of advice in your ear - knock off the booze, it's beginning to really show.

 My apartment building in St. Petersburg had both code locks and metal doors.

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## VendingMachine

> Knock off the smart a** image VM, it's getting really annoying.

 Knock off telling lies about a country you appear to know nothing about. As for annoying, well, if you can't stand the heat, well, you know. Get out of the kitchen. (in your case stop telling lies, simple as that)   

> A lot of apartments have double doors, one of them made of metal. Often it is covered in wood paneling from the outside, so it doesn't look like metal.

 Oh, covered you say? So that's why I have never seen a single metal door in aparment blocks? Have they been hiding from me all this time? Pathetic. You lie just like I breathe - without thinking.   

> The code locks are on the doors leading into the building itself from the outside. They are very common in apartment buildings away from the very center of the city. The lock is usually a 3 digit code or sometimes it is an intercom and you can call the person you're there to visit and they will unlock the door for you.

 3 digit code? How very secure. A 3 digit code can be electronically picked using a simple brute force attack in a matter of seconds (you just plug a digital counter any ЮТ subsriber can whip up in a matter of minutes into the lock's circuit and make the wee bugger count from 000 to 999). Unless, of course, the number of incorrect inputs is limited and when it's reached the lock simply blocks. But something's telling me that's not the case because it would mean that after a few incorrect key presses the door would just block. I think you're inventing again. You've got a powerful imagination but oops, not a clue about engineering.

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## VendingMachine

> My apartment building in St. Petersburg had both code locks and metal doors.

 But you've never been to St Pete. I established that a long time ago cross-examining your posts. Can you give me the address you were staying at? I'll pop round there and see if you're telling the truth or not.

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## astarz41

> 3 digit code? How very secure. A 3 digit code can be elictronically picked using a simple brute force attack in a matter of seconds (you just plug a digital counter any ЮТ subsriber can whip up in a matter of minutes into the lock's circuit and make the wee bugger count from 000 to 999). Unless, of course, the number of incorrect inputs is limited and when it's reached the lock simply blocks. But something's telling me that's not the case because it would mean that after a few incorrect key presses the door would just block.

 Riiight, or you could just see which 3 buttons look worn out and press them.    

> Oh, covered you say? So that's why I have never seen a single metal door in aparment blocks? Have they been hiding from me all this time?

 Maybe you should get out more?   ::     

> Knock off telling lies about a country you appear to know nothing about.

   ::  You're joking, right?   ::

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## astarz41

> But you've never been to St Pete. I established that a long time ago cross-examining your posts. Can you give me the address you were staying at? I'll pop round there and see if you're telling the truth or not.

 Omg are you set out on a life long quest of proving that I've never been to Russia? You're so silly...hmmm, okay I used to live on 2aya Sovetskaya (near pl. Vosstanya) and I went to school #169. My grandma, who you say is insane, lives on Shkipersky Protok (on Vassilievsky Ostrov) So there you go!   ::  
Forgot to ask, how exactly did you come to your conclusion? I mean about analyzing my posts...  I'm just curious.

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## Dogboy182

> Forgot to ask, how exactly did you come to your conclusion? I mean about analyzing my posts...  I'm just curious.

 Did you ever see "A beautiful mind" ?  
He is probly like that, exect crazy slav style. He's analzing everything he reads for the rightist western american propaganda. We are all just figments of imagination to him ! 
he's probly tied up in a straight jacket somewhere typing 1 footed responses to all these posts =))

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## scotcher

I haven't read most of the thread so I apologise if it's already been mentioned, I just remembered something else that annoyed me about Russia: 
Why do all the houses and flats have so many bloody doors? 
I mean, in a block of flats you need to go through a door at street level, then a secure entry door inside, then when you get to the flat you have two front doors, back to back, one opening out the way and one opening in the way. And houses are even worse, an outside front door (or two) from the garden  into a little unheated entry hall, then another door to get into the house proper (and another little hall, this time a heated one), then yet another frikkin door to get into the main living space. And it doesn't even end there. Got an L or T-shaped hall between the rooms? No problem, just take that opportunity to install yet another door and partition off the living space still further. 
Geez, anyone would think Russia had problems with petty crime and harsh winters....

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## astarz41

> Did you ever see "A beautiful mind" ?  
> He is probly like that, exect crazy slav style. He's analzing everything he reads for the rightist western american propaganda. We are all just figments of imagination to him !  
> he's probly tied up in a straight jacket somewhere typing 1 footed responses to all these posts =))

 Nope I haven't seen it   ::   That's a little disturbing... but it would explain a lot of things.   ::     

> Geez, anyone would think Russia had problems with petty crime and harsh winters....

 Yeah I think those are the main reasons for so many doors.

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## Линдзи

Hee.

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## rkdlnd

Nobody uses парадная, that would be like a big special entrance. And notice how it's an adjective? That's because the noun it modifies is probably дверь, which is feminine. парадная дверь.  
подъезд can mean the driveway, but most of the time it means the area inside the apartment building, when you just come in. In Dnepropetrovsk, we lived in a 9-storey apartment building, which had a подъезд, and which we often, on a daily basis referred to as the подъезд. Never called it the парадная.  
I know that Dnepropetrovsk is Ukraine, and not Russia, but this is just to show you that not only people in St. Petersburg call it подъезд, but in other places too, all over the former CCCP. 
Oh yeah, about the actual question. I've never lived in russia, but in Dnepropetrovsk we had a serious pest problem, at least by american standards (not pakistani standards). In the подвал, we had mice, rats, and cats (seriously, stray cats), and that is just out of the mammals. There were also numerous insects, and things of that nature. There were small rectangular windows at ground level, and one time I saw a rat, (huge, probably about 25 inches long, with the tail.) and it jumped out of one window, ran across the подъезд (outside), and then jumped into another window. There were also numerous cat-fights (not girls fighting, actual cats), and they would battle around the подъезд and it often got quite bloody.

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## waxwing

scotcher, please do read the whole thread. It's a textbook case of how VM can take an interesting discussion and turn it into utter drivel.
(+you'll see me 'echoing' your comment  ::  )
If you look at my original response to the OP, I mentioned corruption in education and the topic of 'trust', which I thought was rather an interesting topic. There was also the stuff about getting into the country, as I'm sure you remember. Instead of developing these ideas, we have three pages of VM defending his thesis that 'all Russian apartments have one lovingly hand-crafted wooden (palace) door' .. well I won't even bother it's not worth it   ::

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## Tambakis

> Forgot to ask, how exactly did you come to your conclusion? I mean about analyzing my posts... I'm just curious.

  

> Originally Posted by Линдзи wrote:  My apartment building in St. Petersburg had both code locks and metal doors.   But you've never been to St Pete. I established that a long time ago cross-examining your posts. Can you give me the address you were staying at? I'll pop round there and see if you're telling the truth or not.

 He was talking to Линдзи about that.  ::

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## astarz41

> Originally Posted by astarz41  Forgot to ask, how exactly did you come to your conclusion? I mean about analyzing my posts... I'm just curious.         Originally Posted by VendingMachine        Originally Posted by Линдзи wrote:  My apartment building in St. Petersburg had both code locks and metal doors.   But you've never been to St Pete. I established that a long time ago cross-examining your posts. Can you give me the address you were staying at? I'll pop round there and see if you're telling the truth or not.   He was talking to Линдзи about that.

 Ahh, you're right Tambakis! 
Duh  ::   ::

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## VendingMachine

> Forgot to ask, how exactly did you come to your conclusion? I mean about analyzing my posts...  I'm just curious.

 I wasn't talking to you. Please pay attention. 
P.S. 2all Please note that she didn't leave the exact address so I can't check if there's a tripple armour-plated door or not.

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## VendingMachine

> Geez, anyone would think Russia had problems with petty crime and harsh winters....
> 			
> 		  Yeah I think those are the main reasons for so many doors.

 Will you ever stop this or not? Are you being paid or something? Petty crime huh. You're calling burglary a petty crime? You lot should be locked up - right behind those quadruple armour-plated doors with 512 bit combination locks you apparently have wet dreams about. You'll be in your element behind 'em.

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## VendingMachine

> I know that Dnepropetrovsk is Ukraine, and not Russia, but this is just to show you that not only people in St. Petersburg call it подъезд, but in other places too, all over the former CCCP.

 The point is that the people in St Pete use the word парадная and подъезд is something totally different. You ain't been to St Pete and you don't know nowt about the dialect spoken there.

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## VendingMachine

> scotcher, please do read the whole thread. It's a textbook case of how VM can take an interesting discussion and turn it into utter drivel.
> (+you'll see me 'echoing' your comment  )
> If you look at my original response to the OP, I mentioned corruption in education and the topic of 'trust', which I thought was rather an interesting topic. There was also the stuff about getting into the country, as I'm sure you remember. Instead of developing these ideas, we have three pages of VM defending his thesis that 'all Russian apartments have one lovingly hand-crafted wooden (palace) door' .. well I won't even bother it's not worth it

 Developing what? Your lies? All we hear from people like you is the russians drink vodka bla bla bla the russians are corrupt bla bla bla the russians this the russians that. look, matey, i'm sick to my gut of your silly western propaganda and so are most russians on this board. besides, no one's putting a gag in your mouth (wish i could do that though) so please, discuss whatever lies you like, no one's standing in your way. aaaaah, i think i know why you're suddenly so silent about that - it's one thing to come forward with a few cock and bull stories about corruption at schools and it's quite another to actually back up your lies with hard evidence. go on, keep scraping the bottom. 
Three pages, yeah. We have three pages of notorious liers posting their negativism about the country some love dearly.

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## scotcher

giggle

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## VendingMachine

> Nobody uses парадная, that would be like a big special entrance. And notice how it's an adjective? That's because the noun it modifies is probably дверь, which is feminine. парадная дверь.

 Thereby displaying total ignorance of modern colloquial Russian... A word can have the form of an adjective but act as a noun.    

> Oh yeah, about the actual question. I've never lived in russia,

 How dare you talk about the way Russian is spoken in St Pete then? You sound like an American pontificating about BrE.   

> one time I saw a rat, (huge, probably about 25 inches long, with the tail.) and it jumped out of one window, ran across the подъезд (outside), and then jumped into another window.

 ...unlocked a tripple armour-plated door with its fangs... it wasn't a rat, it was a _мышерокер_.   

> There were also numerous cat-fights (not girls fighting, actual cats), and they would battle around the подъезд and it often got quite bloody.

 Sure. You kept your lazer gun cocked each time you were getting home. *Scotcher*, beam 'im  up, will ya.

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## Dogboy182

> Thereby displaying total ignorance of modern colloquial Russian... A word can have the form of an adjective but act as a noun.

 True. Tons of words decline like adjectives.

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## bad manners

It is time that you American and British idiots looked at a map and realized that winters in Russia are a lot colder than in Britain and the US. Perhaps you should recall your last winter in the UK/US and giggle at how the temperature dropping just slightly below zero would wreak havoc, and a couple of snowflakes that managed _not_ to melt would paralyze your countries for days. Then try and grasp that in Russia twenty and thirty degrees below zero are the norm in winter, and they naturally do everything to conserve the warmth of their homes. Which includes double doors at the building entrances -- yes, with unheated space between them, because one must truly be an idiot to maintain tens of degrees of thermal difference in a place that has almost unobstructed heat exchange with the atmosphere. That often includes double doors between the stairway in a подъезд/парадная and a flat because there are still tens of degrees of difference between a flat and the stairway. 
Yes there are double doors but they do not have to be steel doors. Speaking of which, you really ought to dissect an average "Western" door for your education, I bet you're going to be surprised upon finding steel inside one. Does that mean anything about the paranoia of its owner? Probably it does, but not more than it means about the resistance of the door to fire. 
But, of course, _in Russia_ steel doors only signify the wickedness of the Russian mind.

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## scotcher

Haha, brilliant, two for the price of one.  
That's made my day  ::

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## Линдзи

This is a hoot.

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## bad manners

Like I said, American and British idiots. scotcher (apparently an abbreviation of "scrotum itcher") and Линдзи have already shown up, freely and voluntarily announcing their idiocy. Just like the itcher said, two for the price of one. 
Only I am afraid we are going to see more of them. 
Speaking of the idiocy, Лидзи, do you still believe your Suburban Capital of the Middle of Nowhere has more and better books in its libraries than St. Petersburg?

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## scotcher

You really are a moron bad manners, but since you've made me laugh twice today already I'll spell it out for you.  _Of course_ I'd read the whole thread before posting my comments about Russian doors, that was the whole point. It was a piss-take, intended to wind up Vending Machine for the amusement of myself and everyone else who finds his 'you're all lying anti-Russian propagandists' rants as absurd and funny as I do (which evidently includes all the other Russians on the board), since there is absolutely no point in trying to reason with him anyway. He takes any observation that he doesn't like, whether or not the observation was stated with any malice, as a direct attack on him and his country, which is ridiculous, and he deserves all the contempt he receives. 
Hence my _'giggle'_ comment at his response. 
As it happens, my own street-to-livingroom door count happens to be 6 (two front doors, one secure-entry, two internal fire doors, my own front door, and the door between my hall and living room), but the fact that I don't have a problem with the number of doors in Russian houses should have been obvious to anyone with a brain anyway, and that even if the number did surprise me, I stated quite clearly, albeit sarcastically, that I understood the need for them to have all the ones they do. 
Hence my _'Geez, anyone would think Russia had problems with petty crime and harsh winters....'_ comment. 
Amusingly, it appears all of this was only obvious to the 'British and American Idiots', as you so eloquently phrased it.  
That it wound you up enough for you to come blundering into the thread calling people names and making a fool of yourself, _yet again_, was just an added bonus. 
Hence my _'two for the price of one'_ comment. 
Is there anything else I can help you with, sweetheart?

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## bad manners

scrotchie, you don't have to capitalize the word 'idiocy' or 'idiot'. In case you think that makes it anymore beautiful, you're mistaken. But then, aren't you always? 
One only needs to capitalize the word 'idiot' when it is used to address you, because even among the idiots your idiocy is outstanding. I mean really, what else could anyone call a scrotcher who laughs at something that he later on declares to be perfectly true? 
You are The Idiot, itcher.

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## rkdlnd

> I know that Dnepropetrovsk is Ukraine, and not Russia, but this is just to show you that not only people in St. Petersburg call it подъезд, but in other places too, all over the former CCCP.
> 			
> 		  The point is that the people in St Pete use the word парадная and подъезд is something totally different. You ain't been to St Pete and you don't know nowt about the dialect spoken there.

 Maybe they say парадная in St. Pete, but we say подъезд in Dnepropetrovsk. That I know for sure.

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## scotcher

> scrotchie, you don't have to capitalize the word 'idiocy' or 'idiot'. In case you think that makes it anymore beautiful, you're mistaken. But then, aren't you always? 
> One only needs to capitalize the word 'idiot' when it is used to address you, because even among the idiots your idiocy is outstanding. I mean really, what else could anyone call a scrotcher who laughs at something that he later on declares to be perfectly true? 
> You are The Idiot, itcher.

 I don't know if I can compete with that sort of wit, bad manners, but I sure can try: 
[bad manners] *No you're the idiot! So NYEEEEEEEER!!!! etc etc*
[/bad manners] 
How was that? 
Seriously, people would think far more highly of you if you just admitted, like an adult, that you made a prick of yourself again, rather than falling back on exactly the same pathetic tactic you always use whenever you are losing any argument; by focusing on a single typo (in a hastily-written internet post no less!) and calling the other party names.

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## rkdlnd

> Originally Posted by rkdlnd  Nobody uses парадная, that would be like a big special entrance. And notice how it's an adjective? That's because the noun it modifies is probably дверь, which is feminine. парадная дверь.   Thereby displaying total ignorance of modern colloquial Russian... A word can have the form of an adjective but act as a noun.

 Yeah, I know an adjective can act as a noun, but ajectives come is three edings, by gender. How do you determine what gender it is? Because there is another noun which has the gender.
Notice how спальня (short for спальная),  туалетная, and гостиная are all feminine and are all types of rooms. Is it a coincidence that "комната" is also feminine? No because the full version is спальиая комната, туалетная комната, гостиная комната. That's all I was trying to say with "парадная дверь".        

> Oh yeah, about the actual question. I've never lived in russia,

 How dare you talk about the way Russian is spoken in St Pete then? You sound like an American pontificating about BrE.[/quote] 
I didn't, that's taken completely out of context. I never talked about how people speak in St. Pete, becuase I've never been there! I went on to say how people speak in Dnepropetrovsk. I simply wanted to show that people say подъезд in Dnepropetrovsk as well as the other places that otehr people mentioned. That's it.    

> one time I saw a rat, (huge, probably about 25 inches long, with the tail.) and it jumped out of one window, ran across the подъезд (outside), and then jumped into another window.

 ...unlocked a tripple armour-plated door with its fangs... it wasn't a rat, it was a _мышерокер_.[/quote] 
мышерокер? WTF?? No, it was a самая настоящая крыса. It didn't have to unlock any doors, it was a window remember? and the window was also broken.   

> There were also numerous cat-fights (not girls fighting, actual cats), and they would battle around the подъезд and it often got quite bloody.

 Sure. You kept your lazer gun cocked each time you were getting home. *Scotcher*, beam 'im  up, will ya.[/quote]  ::   ::   ::   
Youre just a weirdo.  ::   :P   ::   ::

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## bad manners

The problem with your calling me something, scrotchie, is that you can never explain why you're calling me something. 
On the other hand, I explained why you were and are The Idiot. And it is not because of typos. It is because of your Idiocy.

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## scotcher

I thought I explained it several posts ago bad manners. Presumably you can still read it, as the thread is still here, so I can only conclude that you can't or won't understand my explanation. I will certainly concede the possibility that it may have been too complicated for you, but for the life of me I can't think of a simpler way to phrase it. 
Would anyone else like to have a go at explaining it to him? Did anyone else have trouble following it?

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## Joseph

> Did anyone else have trouble following it?

 I had no trouble at all following it, but maybe that's because I'm an American idiot.   ::

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## bad manners

I almost forgot to say that not only are you The Idiot, scotcher, you are also a liar. I had not called anyone any name before a couple of persons replied to my message addressed to the American and British idiots. One of them was you, scotcher. _Your_ reply clearly indicated that _you_ thought the message was addressed to you, thus _you_ obviously _thought yourself an idiot_. So there goes all your imbecile blathering on my "calling people names". 
It is unbelievable. I post a message whose sole purpose is to explain stuff to cretins, a cretin replies and then is suddenly offended by his being called a cretin.

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## Линдзи

bad manners...they have some medications you can take for this, you know.

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## Старик

This forum is called "Culture and History".
As you are not talking about history it must be culture.

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## Линдзи

> This forum is called "Culture and History".
> As you are not talking about history it must be culture.

 Heh.  "Culture" sure would be one word for it.   

> Main Entry: cul·ture
> Pronunciation: 'k&l-ch&r
> Function: noun
> 1 a : the integrated pattern of human behavior that includes thought, speech, action, and artifacts and depends upon the human capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group  *2 a : the act or process of growing living material (as bacteria or viruses) in prepared nutrient media* b : a product of cultivation in nutrient media —cul·tur·al /'k&lch(-&)-r&l/ adjective —cul·tur·al·ly /-r&-lE/ adverb

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## bad manners

That would explain this growth. scotcher, Линдзи, next? 
P.S. No medication that I might take would increase the number of neural interconnections in your cerebrum, Линдзи.

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## Линдзи

> That would explain this growth. scotcher, Линдзи, next? 
> P.S. No medication that I might take would increase the number of neural interconnections in your cerebrum, Линдзи.

 bad manners...you're trying to pick a fight with me over how many doors there are in a Russian apartment, and why they are there.  I want you to stop and think about for a minute or two.

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## bad manners

I do not want to pick a fight with anyone. Really. What I want to do is understand why you reacted on that message in the first place. Did you think it was incorrect and the Russians had way more doors than was justified by the climate and such mundane things as fire safety? If you did really think so, then I cannot add much to what I have already said about neurons. If you did not think so, then why would you solidarise with the imbeciles?

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## Линдзи

> I do not want to pick a fight with anyone. Really. What I want to do is understand why you reacted on that message in the first place. Did you think it was incorrect and the Russians had way more doors than was justified by the climate and such mundane things as fire safety? If you did really think so, then I cannot add much to what I have already said about neurons. If you did not think so, then why would you solidarise with the imbeciles?

 What reaction of mine are you referring to? Please provide a quote. I think you will find that no place in this thread have I commented on the reasons for Russian door-making practices.  My one reply, other than to laugh at the histrionics, crack on the word "culture," and suggest you medicate yourself, was to say:   

> My apartment building in St. Petersburg had both code locks and metal doors.

 Hmm.  That doesn't sound like much of a criticism.  It is a simple statement of fact.  I am aware that doors exist for many purposes, including but not limited to, climate, security and fire control.  I was not, before reading this thread, aware that it was possible to debate those purposes.

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## BETEP

> This forum is called "Culture and History".
> As you are not talking about history it must be culture.

 It's just a sort of culture.  ::

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by VendingMachine     
> 			
> 				I know that Dnepropetrovsk is Ukraine, and not Russia, but this is just to show you that not only people in St. Petersburg call it подъезд, but in other places too, all over the former CCCP.
> 			
> 		  The point is that the people in St Pete use the word парадная and подъезд is something totally different. You ain't been to St Pete and you don't know nowt about the dialect spoken there.   Maybe they say парадная in St. Pete, but we say подъезд in Dnepropetrovsk. That I know for sure.

 And in Bengali they say.... What's the weird dialect of Dnepropetrovsk, an obscure town in Ukraine, got to do with the Russian we speak in Russia? I'm extatic that you apparently know everything there is to know about _that_ part of the world, how about devoting some time to learning more about the country this forum is devoted to?

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## VendingMachine

You mean you don't know who мышерокеры are? Man, you haven't lived then.   ::

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## waxwing

> Originally Posted by Старик  This forum is called "Culture and History".
> As you are not talking about history it must be culture.   It's just a sort of culture.

 Yeah stop being such a cultural imperialist! 
I think the lunatic culture of masterrussian.net forum should be preserved for generations to come. In fact, MasterAdmin should archive all these posts, stick them on a few zip drives, and bury them .. or send them into space to the planet Zog where they will marvel in wonder that there are sentient beings anywhere that could have possibly wasted so much time  ::

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## BJ

You tell  them, waxwing   ::

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## bad manners

> What reaction of mine are you referring to? Please provide a quote.

 There was something about "hoot". I admit it was not very coherent a reaction, but was a reaction nevertheless. If it was a sort of agreement with me, it had a rather... well, idiotic form; if it was not, it was idiotic in and out. So pray tell me what that was supposed to mean so we could settle the issue once and for all.

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## scotcher

Good grief. 
Here's a summary of the thread for you bad manners. If you still don't get it afterwards, feel free to ask for more help. 
1)
Several people made the observation that there were a lot of doors in Russian houses (some aluded to the perfectly obvious reasons, others didn't). 
2)
VM needlessly took this an insult againts Russia and all Russians, and proceded to go on one of his multi-post paranoid rants, and rather than dispute, debate, or point out those perfectly obvious reasons many Russian houses require more than one door, he chose to deny the existence of those doors, and attack those who had made the observations as liars. 
3)
At this point I decided to take the piss out of him. Apparently, everyone got it except you. 
4)
Against this background (remember, many people had made the same completely harmless observation, but none had passed any judgement whatsoever apart from VM himself), you chose to come blundering into the thread, calling people names for not understanding something it was blinding obvious everyone did understand very well, and echoing the very sentiments (or rabid paranoia) we were in the process of laughing at. 
5)
Your combination of fundementally missing the point of the Thread So Far, and the venom with which you did so, was extremely funny in that context, which lead Lindzi and I to laugh at you. 
6)
This, in turn, caused you to take the hump and start hurling (disappointingly unimaginitive) insults at both of us. 
7)
The rest of the thread has been a comical sequence of exchanged insults, punctuated with my efforts to explain to you what everyone else knew a dozen or so posts ago. 
Do you get it yet, or would you like to continue make a further tit of yourself? It's up to you, I'm easy.

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## bad manners

> which lead Lindzi and I

 You're such a joke, scotcher. Come back when you can prove your claims about my "calling people names". You might take a couple of lessons in your native language meanwhile. 
You continued willingness to declare your idiocy is quite astonishing, by the way. As is your imbecile wordiness.

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## VendingMachine

I repeat, there are no double doors in Russian houses, I repeat there are no double doors in Russian houses. Whoever says there are is a darn liar. Whoever says there are is a darn liar. To prove that there are Lindzi could have given me the address she was staying at, she hasn't ergo she's afraid that I may indeed pop over there to check it out and that I will discover that there is only one door and that it's hardly a metal one. Lindzi won't give me the address ... because there ain't none. She ain't never been to St Pete.

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## joysof

> To prove that there are Lindzi could have given me the address she was staying at, she hasn't ergo she's afraid that I may indeed pop over there to check it out and that I will discover that there is only one door and that it's hardly a metal one.

 Henry James can spin;_ this_ is the Best Sentence Ever Written

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## scotcher

> Originally Posted by scotcher  which lead Lindzi and I   You're such a joke, scotcher. Come back when you can prove your claims about my "calling people names". You might take a couple of lessons in your native language meanwhile. 
> You continued willingness to declare your idiocy is quite astonishing, by the way. As is your imbecile wordiness.

 What do I need to prove bad manners? The thread is here for anyone to read (in the unlikely event anyone should wish to do so).  
Nice to see you (yet again) falling back on pedantry and empty, irrelevant personal attacks when you have (yet again) run out of any other arguments.   
Keep it up, you may even manage something approaching wit, eventually. 
(you know what they say about an infinite number of monkeys... ).

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## bad manners

> Originally Posted by bad manners        Originally Posted by scotcher  which lead Lindzi and I   You're such a joke, scotcher. Come back when you can prove your claims about my "calling people names". You might take a couple of lessons in your native language meanwhile. 
> You continued willingness to declare your idiocy is quite astonishing, by the way. As is your imbecile wordiness.   What do I need to prove bad manners? The thread is here for anyone to read (in the unlikely event anyone should wish to do so).

 Indeed. So anyone can see what a pathetic liar you are.    

> Nice to see you (yet again) falling back on pedantry and empty, irrelevant personal attacks when you have (yet again) run out of any other arguments.

 Arguments? Am I proving anything? No, scotcher, I am not proving anything. You are proving yourself an idiot.

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## rkdlnd

> Originally Posted by rkdlnd        Originally Posted by VendingMachine     
> 			
> 				I know that Dnepropetrovsk is Ukraine, and not Russia, but this is just to show you that not only people in St. Petersburg call it подъезд, but in other places too, all over the former CCCP.
> 			
> 		  The point is that the people in St Pete use the word парадная and подъезд is something totally different. You ain't been to St Pete and you don't know nowt about the dialect spoken there.   Maybe they say парадная in St. Pete, but we say подъезд in Dnepropetrovsk. That I know for sure.   And in Bengali they say.... What's the weird dialect of Dnepropetrovsk, an obscure town in Ukraine, got to do with the Russian we speak in Russia? I'm extatic that you apparently know everything there is to know about _that_ part of the world, how about devoting some time to learning more about the country this forum is devoted to?

 14 years ago it was all one country. It's the same part of the world. Besides everyone speaks Standard Russian in Dnepropetrovsk. You are the one with the dialect. But if I'm ever in St. Pete I'll be sure to call it парадная. Have fun with the extasy.

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## Линдзи

::   This thread is like the Little Engine the Could on mescaline. 
VM, the people I stayed with in Petersburg still live in that apartment; I don't think they'd appreciate a 14-year-old British alcoholic showing up on their doorstep.  Hence, my not giving you the address.   
And I still, for the life of me, cannot figure out how this conversation has carried on so long.  But by all means, continue.  It _is_ a hoot.  bad manners, you're perfectly welcome to look up the colloquial use of the term "hoot" in the dictionary.

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## rkdlnd

> And I still, for the life of me, cannot figure out how this conversation has carried on so long. But by all means, continue. It is a hoot. bad manners, you're perfectly welcome to look up the colloquial use of the term "hoot" in the dictionary.

   ::   ::   ::

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## Friendy

Why, why the following questions were not included in перепись населения:   ::  
1)How many pairs of doors are in your подъезд?
2)Do you have a metal front door in your flat?
3)How many front doors are there in your flat? 
Well, here's my little contribution to this door topic : *1. Steel doors in apartments.*
They appeared after the collapse of the Soviet Union so I don't think it's connected with cold winters. Of course, they won't stop proffesionals, especially if they dream of nothing but breaking into your flat but there are some categories of criminals that they will stop. And, as mentioned by Greubau, the default doors open inside thus making it easier to break into the apartment while the steel doors open outside. And the psychological factor, of course. 
If you install the metal door and leave the default (wooden) door you will have double front doors (as I do). And this _is_ connected with cold weather (know that from personal experience when I forgot to close the wooden doors  ::  ). I am not saying that the majority of people have metal doors but there is/was their relative popularity (at least in Moscow, btw, an indicator of the popularity is the number of firms that offer their steel door installation services and their ads in free advertizing papers).
Also here’s an article about the steel doors, maybe it will be of interest to somebody: http://www.teso.infomsk.ru/media/publis ... atid=13344  *2. Two pairs of doors in подъезд.*
There are certainly blocks with them (mine for example  ::  ), but I was thinking if I saw blocks that have only one pair of doors and I don't think I can remember anything certain about that (most likely because I wasn't paying attention) but it seems that I saw подъезды where the second door was open or missing. Well, I will be paying more attention to that in the future.  ::   Btw, I think here's the case when generalisations are justified to some extent because a lot of apartment blocks built in Soviet Union were built according to the same projects and I guess there were госстандарты too.

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## VendingMachine

> 14 years ago it was all one country. It's the same part of the world.

 That's what _you_ think.   

> Besides everyone speaks Standard Russian in Dnepropetrovsk.

 Standard Russian is a weird cross between Moscow and St Petersburg speech. Днепропетровска там и не стояло.

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## VendingMachine

> VM, the people I stayed with in Petersburg still live in that apartment;

  Really? You mean they survived a disaster like _you_? I'm sorry, but you're definately lying - you've never been to St Pete. One minute in a flat with someone like you and the poor chap has gone bananas.   

> I don't think they'd appreciate a 14-year-old British alcoholic showing up on their doorstep.  Hence, my not giving you the address.

 How sweet of you, caring so much about your imaginary host family. I know it's a tough world out there, but you gotta face it, Lindzi, there has never been a host family, I repeat there has never been a host family. And why? Cos you ain't never been to St Pete, that's why. There, there, have a doughnut.

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## VendingMachine

> And, as mentioned by Greubau, the default doors open inside thus making it easier to break into the apartment while the steel doors open outside.

  Friendy, I'm afraid I'm forced to disagree. Seriously this time. According to safety regulations all doors in apartments, schools, hospitals, etc (that is where there are many people) must be pushed to open, not pulled  - should there be a fire, there may be people throwing themselves against doors in panic. Think about it, it makes perfect sense.

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## Friendy

> And, as mentioned by Greubau, the default doors open inside thus making it easier to break into the apartment while the steel doors open outside.
> 			
> 		   Friendy, I'm afraid I'm forced to disagree. Seriously this time. According to safety regulations all doors in apartments, schools, hospitals, etc (that is where there are many people) must be pushed to open, not pulled  - should there be a fire, there may be people throwing themselves against doors in panic. Think about it, it makes perfect sense.

 Do you mean pushed from the outside/pulled from the inside? (at my work the room doors are pushed from the inside).

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## VendingMachine

Yes, Friendy, that is correct - they must be pushed to get out of the room, not to get into the room.

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## Friendy

> Yes, Friendy, that is correct - they must be pushed to get out of the room, not to get into the room.

 But then it doesn’t contradict to what I was saying when referring to Greubau. I meant that if the door is pushed to get *into* the room (that is opening inside) it’s also easier to break into the room, so this is also an argument *for* the doors that are pushed to get *out* of the room (opening outside).

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## VendingMachine

*Friendy* 
But the thing is that all doors are pushed, not pulled to get out of the room. It's not possible to install a door which you have to pull to get out of the room - it's a violation of safety regulations which are very strict in this country. People have gone to gaol for violating them. Well, of course there are one or two rogue doors in Russia, but their owners will be prosecuted sooner or later. In the West people have to campaign for doors to be installed correctly, in Russia democracy automatically insures that the number of rogue doors is kept to a minimum.

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## BJ

I'm very worried about visiting Russian now because of this position over push-me pull-you doors. How can I be sure I'm in a building that has adequate fire exits? Should I carry my own extinguisher and breathing mask? Will they allow me in through customs with such equipment?

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## Indra

In all old Soviet dwelling houses (is it right word for "жилой дом"?) doors were built to be pushed *in* the flat, in order to be easily broken *from outside*. Do you know why? It was made to make it easier to police and KGB to break into the flat.   *Friendy* is absolutely right that it's criminality increase, not climat reasons to add the second steel door which opens outside. 
This is the Russian mentality  in house-building   ::  
Police and criminals. It's pointless to argue about fire safety.

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## BETEP

> Why, why the following questions were not included in перепись населения:   
> 1)How many pairs of doors are in your подъезд?
> 2)Do you have a metal front door in your flat?
> 3)How many front doors are there in your flat?

 May be all I'll say are concern only to my country but--.
4) Have you got a metal hatch on your windows?
5) How many guns are registered on you?   

> Should I carry my own extinguisher and breathing mask? Will they allow me in through customs with such equipment?

 Also I strongly recommend you to pick up a toilet paper, and don't forget to put it all down into custom declaration.  ::

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## VendingMachine

> I'm very worried about visiting Russian now because of this position over push-me pull-you doors. How can I be sure I'm in a building that has adequate fire exits? Should I carry my own extinguisher and breathing mask? Will they allow me in through customs with such equipment?

 You need not worry about those things at all - in Russia we have the highest safety standards in the world. In the unlikely event of a fire you won't have the time to say Jack Robinson before it's been automatically extinguished. All buildings (including tool shacks and traditional countryside latrines) are equipped with sensetive smoke detectors -  there have been cases of foreign visitors inadvertantly setting off smoke detectors in Russian buildings because of their dirty (by Russian, definately not by Western standards) socks and underwear - you can be sure that our smoke detectors are very sensetive indeed. Once smoke has been detected, cutting edge technology in the form of laser guided water and foam nozzles (depending on the cause of fire, which too is determined automatically by sophisticated software) will make short work of anything from the tiniest of sparkles to the greatest of conflagrations.

----------


## bad manners

> In all old Soviet dwelling houses (is it right word for "жилой дом"?) doors were built to be pushed *in* the flat, in order to be easily broken *from outside*. Do you know why? It was made to make it easier to police and KGB to break into the flat.

 What kind of nonsense is that? All over Europe doors in private houses and apartments open inside. If there is a trace of brain in your head, you may even understand why (which is doubtful, though).   

> Police and criminals. It's pointless to argue about fire safety.

 Get you head examined.

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## Friendy

> All over Europe doors in private houses and apartments open inside. If there is a trace of brain in your head, you may even understand why (which is doubtful, though).

 Now I am intrigued.  ::  
Is it in oder not to hit somebody while opening the door? But why is it more important than the fire safety?

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## BETEP

> Now I am intrigued.  
> Is it in oder not to hit somebody while opening the door? But why is it more important than the fire safety?

 Shame on you! It's a well known fact, especially for BM.  ::

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## Friendy

> Originally Posted by Friendy  Now I am intrigued.  
> Is it in oder not to hit somebody while opening the door? But why is it more important than the fire safety?   Shame on you! It's a well known fact, especially for BM.

 What is a well-known fact? That hitting-with-door thing?  ::

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## VendingMachine

> This is the Russian mentality  in house-building   Police and criminals. It's pointless to argue about fire safety.

 What kind of nonsense is that? Do you know what the second most important thing beside the door itself is? The _hinges_ the bloody door bloody hangs on! You can install 10 doors but if the hinges are made of dog's poo the doors will simply be ripped off of the bloody things. First thing those who fear criminals would do is reinforce their hinges, they would not install 20 armour-plated security doors, I repeat they would not install 20 armour-plated security doors.

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## bad manners

> Originally Posted by bad manners   All over Europe doors in private houses and apartments open inside. If there is a trace of brain in your head, you may even understand why (which is doubtful, though).   Now I am intrigued.  
> Is it in oder not to hit somebody while opening the door? But why is it more important than the fire safety?

 Because if you start hitting your fellow citizens with your door, these good fellows may one day prop your door from the outside and put your house on fire, and there goes your fire safety. 
More generally, doors that open outside may be easily blocked, by evil will (as in the example above), or simply by a natural event such as a heavy snowfall. 
Conversely doors that open inside may be reinforced from inside. 
It is also a lot more convenient to enter through a door that opens inside when you carry something heavy. 
Doors that open outside do not really improve fire safety in private houses, simply because they often have to be unlocked before you can open them -- and if your head is so cool that you remember to unlock the door, you can probably pull it open.

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## BETEP

> What is a well-known fact? That hitting-with-door thing?

 Not so fast, lady. Could you wait for BM's starting up imagination?  ::

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## bad manners

3 and counting.

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## BJ

Altercations like this are why they introduced swinging doors in western saloons and gun control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## VendingMachine

Hmm, you've got a point there, *bad manners*. But I distinctly remember reading some official paper (part of the general safety standards code I believe) that said that doors should be pushed to open, not pulled, otherwise there are chances that people will stampede each others guts out. 
It could be that in Europe, where rules of everyday social conduct are strongly enforced, people are not allowed to panic in most social situations (they may face an immediate court martial for "instigation" if they let out as much as a squeak) while in Russia people are actually encouraged not to supress their powerful Russian souls but to give full vent to their emotions using various forms of elaborately grotesque vocalization and gesticulation, that is why there is always a chance that some may lose their footing and crash to the floor and chaos may immediately ensue. 
Also, when there's as many as three embibing individuals locked  in the confines of a typical Russian apartment, the air around them may become highly flammable. That is why fire safety has always been one of the top priorities in Russia.

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## bad manners

Notice that I always said _private_ houses/apartments. Private doors are still installed in the traditional way, mostly. Those who want more security install reinforced doors in reinforced frames, which still mostly open inside.

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## JB

I have a double entry door to my flat. The outside door opens to the outside and my inside door opens to the inside. 
Fire Safety? HA,HA,HA! I live on the 22 floor and the fire stairs are always locked. Even if they were open we wouldn't use them because once you get in the stairwell the doors to each floor are locked and the exit at the bottom is bolted shut from the outside. The stairs have no lights or windows and are full of garbage. This is the same for my friends flats in other parts of the city. Our fire plan is to chug a bottle of vodka so we pass out before we burn to death.

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## bad manners

> I have a double entry door to my flat. The outside door opens to the outside and my inside door opens to the inside. 
> Fire Safety? HA,HA,HA! I live on the 22 floor and the fire stairs are always locked. Even if they were open we wouldn't use them because once you get in the stairwell the doors to each floor are locked and the exit at the bottom is bolted shut from the outside. The stairs have no lights or windows and are full of garbage. This is the same for my friends flats in other parts of the city. Our fire plan is to chug a bottle of vodka so we pass out before we burn to death.

 And what does that mean? Nothing except that you and your neighbours are insane. You know what's in for you should a fire start yet you don't care. Best of luck, you'll need it.

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by JB  I have a double entry door to my flat. The outside door opens to the outside and my inside door opens to the inside. 
> Fire Safety? HA,HA,HA! I live on the 22 floor and the fire stairs are always locked. Even if they were open we wouldn't use them because once you get in the stairwell the doors to each floor are locked and the exit at the bottom is bolted shut from the outside. The stairs have no lights or windows and are full of garbage. This is the same for my friends flats in other parts of the city. Our fire plan is to chug a bottle of vodka so we pass out before we burn to death.   And what does that mean? Nothing except that you and your neighbours are insane. You know what's in for you should a fire start yet you don't care. Best of luck, you'll need it.

 Indeed she is insane. Or been chugging that bottle of vodka...  *JB*
We have regular fire drills - all residents practice leaving the house in a quick and orderly manner. I personally keep a set of climbing ropes I can use in case I need to absail from my window - I test them at least once every three months. Fire safety is on top of everyone's list of priorities. I don't know about Moscow, but something's telling me that you're inventing, as usual. I think fire safety regulations are even tougher in Moscow nowadays than they are in St Pete, what with the terror alert and all.

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## BJ

Think VM, ropes would catch fire. Surely you mean you use a metal chain ladder!!

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## BJ

Maybe this is what doors in Russia are like?

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## bad manners

> Maybe this is what doors in Russia are like?

 What cheap image editor did you use? I don't even have to magnify it to see the artefacts.

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## BJ

Sorry, I'm an amateur - copied it from www.jokes.pp.ru/

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## VendingMachine

> Think VM, ropes would catch fire. Surely you mean you use a metal chain ladder!!

 Never use metal chain ladders - those buggers are excellent heat conductors. My ropes have been treated with asbestos, they won't burn. Besides, I don't climb down, I absail.

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## Tambakis

Aha, asbestos, very safe.

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## Indra

> Originally Posted by Indra  This is the Russian mentality  in house-building   Police and criminals. It's pointless to argue about fire safety.   What kind of nonsense is that? Do you know what the second most important thing beside the door itself is? The _hinges_ the bloody door bloody hangs on! You can install 10 doors but if the hinges are made of dog's poo the doors will simply be ripped off of the bloody things. First thing those who fear criminals would do is reinforce their hinges, they would not install 20 armour-plated security doors, I repeat they would not install 20 armour-plated security doors.

 I agree with you. However, that's what we REALLY have.
Besides, the mentioned facts concerned only inner doors in the blocks (here was a note about possible snowfall or something).

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## JB

If I was making up stories about my apartment I wouldn't be going through all of the hassels necessary for changing flats.
So exactly what floor do you live on VM? Must not be very high or is your rope ladder long enough for 22 stories?  As for the neighbors having regular fire drills I want you to send us a photo.My 25 year old soviet building has 606 flats which roughly estimates out to over 2000 people in residence. Maybe you can come visit me and teach us all how to do a fire drill! Bring beer and maybe a few of the neighbors will laugh instead of punch you in the face! 
As for my insanity, not only Americans but even Russians tell me I am insane for moving here.

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## BJ

A bit off topic - but when such a large proportion of people live in flats, what effect does it have on their personalities? In the UK, they have spent the last umpteen years demolishing flats because people don't like to live in them. Worries about lifts breaking down, vandalism, lack of play places for children, increased crime etc make them unpopular. So apart from city centres where the new flats are drawing in the young and rich, other tower blocks are falling under the steel ball.

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## VendingMachine

Does it effect our personalities.... Look at me, need we say more?

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## BJ

Ah, how right you are. But then I wonder, are you a typical Russian male?

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