# Forum General General Discussion  NonRussian films (work in progress)

## rockzmom

Dear All!
Lampada is here.
I want to try to split the huge movie topic in two.  So, please, bear with me.

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## Shurick

> Thanks, Shurick! I will add this title to my *long* list and see if I can find an English subtitled version.

 http://subs.com.ru/page.php?id=4701  Subtitles for this movie

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## E-learner

I've seen the original and I remember wondering at the end if that boy was actually a murderer or not, though as far as I understand it wasn't the point at all, it was all about how to deal with people, so I see how it could be relevant to management.

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## rockzmom

E-Learner...So, you saw the original 12 Angry Men... did you by any chance see the Russian remake that Lt. Columbo and Olya are speaking about? 
If so, what did you think about it?  
How did you think it compared to the original?   
If not, would you be willing to watch it and then post a review??? 
Also, anyone one else who might have seen the American and Russian versions?  I am interested in learning your thoughts on these two films as I don’t know how many films are out there that fit this category (American and Russian versions of same film).  
Does anyone know of other films like this one???  ::   
Lt. Columbo, what about you… did you see the American version??? If not... go watch it (with your girlfriend of course)... and then post your thoughts... please  ::   
I know Lt. Columbo already had a thread about this film; however, most of it was in Russian and I simply could not understand it.  Please accept my apologizes if you are repeating your comments in English now.

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## Оля

I have seen the American original version and for me it's better than Russian one. I can't write a review since I don't remember it well, I just remember it was more or less a good movie and it was MUCH better than Mikhalkov's "12".

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## delog

> Soviet cinema was great, it was true ART, it was about people and for people. And the modern Russian cinema is nothing but poor attempts at Hollywood.

 Мне и самому из современных русских фильмов нравятся только 2-3, но ставить весь современный русский кинематограф в один ряд с Голливудом я бы не стал. Бюджет их фильмов средней паршивости минимум пятьдесят миллионов, а русских - максимум в десять раз меньше.

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## Оля

> но ставить весь современный русский кинематограф в один ряд с Голливудом я бы не стал.

 Так и я вроде не ставила их в один ряд. Я написала, что современное российское кино - это жалкие потуги на Голливуд.

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## E-learner

> So, you saw the original 12 Angry Men... did you by any chance see the Russian remake that Lt. Columbo and Olya are speaking about?

 I intended to do that for quite a long time now but never braced myself for it because the last film by Mikhalkov that I've seen was to me a complete waste of time, I don't even remember it's name or what it was about except that it was "patriotic", or at least Russian media hailed it as such.
I was going to watch "12" as I had already seen "12 Angry Men" and was just curious. Maybe I will, after all.  ::   

> If not, would you be willing to watch it and then post a review???

 Not much hope for a review.  ::   I never wrote them and I'm not a great fan of cinema anyway. A couple of words, maybe.   ::

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## Cocos

> Мне и самому из современных русских фильмов нравятся только 2-3, но ставить весь современный русский кинематограф в один ряд с Голливудом я бы не стал. Бюджет их фильмов средней паршивости минимум пятьдесят миллионов, а русских - максимум в десять раз меньше.

 Не всё измеряется количеством денег. В Голливуде компании снимают кино на свои деньги и не бегают в министерство культуры за подачками, и провалы им не нужны, поэтому даже в самый паршивый сериал привлекаются талантливые актеры, а к сценариям требования ещё жестче. Отсюда и качество их фильмов и говничество наших, когда сценарии дают писать разным "гениальным" бредунам, близким к кормушке, вроде Михалкова, - верным вассалам идей дерьмократии. Для таких шпанец из Дома-2 уже Актёр с большой буквы.   ::

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## rockzmom

::  Would one of the very talented people would understands BOTH Russian AND English please read the above posts for me and let me know if they are just chats or if they have wonderful fantastic information that I would just love to know but unfortunately will never because I am not educated in your wonderful Russian language? 
I *sincerely* want everyone to feel comfortable posting on this thread, whether it be in *Russian or English* as I value all comments, big or small (even a one sentence review E-Learner!); however, I just need someone to please, please, please, help me out whenever you see a post in Russian, to please translate it for me.  ::

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## ski-ops

Sorry rockzmom. In my own post I said that the best russian language film I've seen is The Return (Возвращения), which came out in 2003. It's my favourite for a few reasons: the acting is great, the scenery gorgeous, and it has a touching story. 
I highly recommend it.

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## delog

> Так и я вроде не ставила их в один ряд. Я написала, что современное российское кино - это жалкие потуги на Голливуд.

 Да, именно это и называется "ставить в один ряд". Гораздо уместнее было бы сравнивать с какими-нибудь францускими студиями, например с Gaumont Pictures или Le Film d'Art.  

> Не всё измеряется количеством денег.

 Верно, но всех людей в мире, способных сделать из ничего что-то, можно пересчитать по пальцам, остальные же могут только превращать деньги в исскуство и искусство в деньги (и то не все).  

> they are just chats or if they have wonderful fantastic information

 There are no useful (even more so fantastic) information, just a chat (except ski-ops's post, of course).

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## Оля

> Самый лучший фильм, который я видел на русском языке - "Возвращение", вышел в 2003-м году. Замечательные актеры, особенно [s:2w48onao]младший[/s:2w48onao] самый молодой актер, красивые [s:2w48onao]природы[/s:2w48onao] пейзажи (природа can't be in plural)_ /no comma/ и эмоциональный и тяжёлый сюжет. 
> Об этом_ будет (было бы) интересно услышать мнение Оли, которая, [s:2w48onao]казалась[/s:2w48onao] кажется, особенно [s:2w48onao]критический о современных русских фильмах[/s:2w48onao] критически относится к современным русским фильмам. 
> Кстати, я думаю, [s:2w48onao]можно ли сказать мне[/s:2w48onao] что могу сказать (здесь) о "Сталкере" - это один из моих любимых советских фильмов. Я прочитал, что туда добавили музыку недавно, [s:2w48onao]и музыка не была раньше, на первом версии[/s:2w48onao] а раньше ее не было, в первой версии - это правда?

 About music in "Stalker" - I don't know. 
As for "Возвращение" - it's not bad for me. But... I don't share common deligh about it. First of all, the film seemed... Italian or something to me. I mean, I did not recognize Russian environment in it. Say, a house. I never saw houses like that in Russia (of course, it doesn't mean there are not any at all, but it's just my impressions). I think all this looked rather like an Italian house and Italian family. Well, Italian or something. Somewhere in the south. While I was watching the movie, I was not able to understand where it happened - I mean not only a country, but a region or a city, too. I think those guys easily could turn out Europeans, not Russians - there would not be needed to change anything in the movie. So this part was abstract to me. So less the movie touched me.

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## rockzmom

ski-ops & delog! 
Thanks for your lightening fast responses and no need to apologize!!!! I am the one here without the proper skill set.  
Though, I have installed the Cyrillic alphabet onto my desktop from  http://www.languagehelpers.com/Russi...nAlphabet.html in hopes that within say, six or seven *months*, I might actually be able to learn them and pronounce the letters to a level that someone would understand me.  ::     

> ..the best russian language film I've seen is The Return (Возвращения), which came out in 2003...I highly recommend it.

 I will add "The Return" to my list and see if I can find a copy online with subtitles.

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## Оля

> [quote:104o8mzj]Я написала, что современное российское кино - это жалкие потуги на Голливуд.

 Да, именно это и называется "ставить в один ряд". [/quote:104o8mzj]
Простите, delog, но это _НЕ называется_ "ставить в один ряд". Это называется сказать то, что я сказала. Потуги - они потуги и есть.

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## rockzmom

ski-ops... 
How sad....I just read... "Actor Vladimir Garin, who played Andrei, drowned shortly after the end of shooting in a lake near the one where several of the picture's scenes were filmed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_(2003_film) 
There is an 8 minute clip online for anyone who wants to just watch a short bit of the film (no subtitles though) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf3TexZCFqo

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## ski-ops

> As for "Возвращение" - it's not bad for me (here it sounds better to say 'it's not bad in my opinion'). But... I don't share common delight in it. First of all, the film seemed... Italian or something to me. I mean, I did not recognize the Russian environment in it. Say, a house. I never saw houses like that in Russia (of course, it doesn't mean there are not any at all, but it's just my impression_). I think all this looked rather like an Italian house and Italian family. Well, Italian or something. Somewhere in the south. While I was watching the movie, I was not able to understand where it happened - I mean not only a country, but a region or a city either. I think those guys easily could turn out Europeans, not Russians - there would not be any need to change anything in the movie. So this part was abstract to me. So the movie touched me less.

 
Oh, that's odd. I read a little about the movie and it was definitely filmed in Russia, not far from St. Petersberg. 
I wonder if any other russians noted anything similar when watching the movie. I would hate to think such an element could ruin what should be a character and relationship driven story.   

> ski-ops... 
> How sad....I just read... "Actor Vladimir Garin, who played Andrei, drowned shortly after the end of shooting in a lake near the one where several of the picture's scenes were filmed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_(2003_film)

 Yeah, it adds another sad element to an already poignant film.

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## E-learner

> (even a one sentence review E-Learner!)

 Be it for better or worse, but it turned out to be rather more. 
I’ve watched “12” yesterday. After that I re-watched “12 Angry Men” (1957), just couldn’t help myself . 
My overall impression – I like “12 Angry Men” more. 
What follows are my impressions, disconnected and inconsistent, of and from different aspects and scenes of “12”. 
In my understanding of the word “remake” “12” isn’t  a remake of “12 Angry Men”. Although many details of the original story are kept intact, the story as a whole is used just as a framework for depicting contemporary Russia. My impression is that they packed too much into this film and were unable to cope with it properly. 
They did a good job in making the film to feel Russian. After one particular episode I found myself thinking: "It just couldn’t be like that in the original but it’s exactly how it must be!” And sure enough, re-watching “12 Angry Men”, I found that scene remarkably different.
It’s a scene where they vote for the very first time.
Americans:
The chairman invites to vote guilty. People raise their hands. People keep their hands raised so that the chairman could count them, which he does: “One, two, three, four, five, six, seven …. (a pause, one man didn’t raise his hand) eight, nine, ten, eleven.” The procedure is repeated for “not guilty”. One man. Somebody says: “Boy, oh boy. There’s always one.”
People are unpleasantly surprised. They are annoyed. Still, their attitude is of  “Well, s**t happens, but nothing’s extraordinary there, we will cope with this, one way or the other.”
Russians:
Somebody asks for clarification whether the first vote is for guilty or not guilty and somebody else says: “Did you ever vote? Just raise your hand and all will be OK!” (It’s a joke, of course, but truthful and, in the circumstance, frightening joke.) The chairman invites to vote guilty. People raise their hands. Somebody, habitually, says “unanimous”. People immediately start leaving the table. The chairman insists that the procedure should be completed. People return (nobody has the slightest idea that somebody didn’t vote, nobody can even imagine that that could happen). Voting for not guilty. The chairman, habitually, begins to say “no….” and then notices a man with a raised hand, as he’s sitting not far away. It takes some time for the idea to sink in.
People are stunned.
Now,  I don’t know whether the American procedure is depicted true to the American character, you tell me that, but I can tell you that that scene in “12” feels painfully truthful. 
I think that story of “12 Angry Men” isn’t very believable on Russian material. Or maybe they didn’t know how to make it believable. Also, acting. It wasn’t very convincing. I don’t know who’s to blame for that - actors or scriptwriters. One scene was especially painful to watch. It’s the last speech of the man who was the last to surrender. It was clearly constructed so as to bring tears to viewers’ eyes. In my case it failed to do that utterly (the American one succeeded). 
And the last thing. “12” is quite openly politically charged. I don’t like that sort of thing and I don’t want to talk about it.

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  (even a one sentence review E-Learner!)   Be it for better or worse, but it turned out to be rather more.

 Yes, you indeed do more! E-learner, you did a fanstastic job on your review !  ::   
I may have to rewatch 12 Angry Men myself after I watch 12.   

> Now, I don’t know whether the American procedure is depicted true to the American character, you tell me that, but I can tell you that that scene in “12” feels painfully truthful.

 Both my husband and I have served on American Jury Trials. They were both one day simple trials. I asked him this question as well and both of us remember that we did paper ballots and it was after a brief discussion of the facts. It was not right away. 
Now, in my trial, in the courtroom after the vertict was read, our jury was asked for a "poll." This can be done and it means that we were eached asked our verdict in the case  http://law.jrank.org/pages/9266/Polling-Jury.html.

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## rockzmom

Book Talk!!! 
We haven’t talked about books too much and I want to for just a quick few minutes. 
As I mentioned, I purchased the three books from the “Watch” series that are available here in the U.S. (the fourth one had a printing error and is scheduled to come out in March). 
I started reading *Night Watch*  the first chapter takes the reader to the Moscow Metro and listed several names of stops. I wondered if these were actual names of stops or made up ones so I went to the computer and pulled up a  map of the Metro and sure enough, there on the Orange Line (or do you call it line 6?), were the stops from the book; Prospekt Mira, Rizhskaya, Alekseevskaya, and Exhibition (it takes so little to amuse me)! 
Also during the first few pages, the main character, Anton, is listening to music. The lyrics from the song he is listening to are printed in the book and they are of course in English. I wondered what the corresponding song was in the original Russian version. I sent off a PM to the forum member who suggested the movie to see if they had a copy of the book since they had mentioned that they had read it. They did and scanned for me not only the pages that had the song, but the cover of their book as well (you forum people are so nice  ::  ).  
It turns out that the same song was used for both books. A song by the group, “Blackmore's Night” called “Shadow Of The Moon” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArOS_WsT1tw 
Now, what is even more interesting to me was that the lyrics in the Russian version, were also in English and when I saw the scanned page from the Russian book, I immediately noticed that the lyrics had several typographical errors. 
The lyrics should read: 
Feel no sorrow, feel no pain
Feel no hurt, there’s nothing gained…
Only love will then remain,
She would say.  
Here is a scan of that page.   
I also thought that the Russian cover was much better than the U.S. cover. With the U.S. cover, you have no clue as to what the book might be about. The Russian cover at least gives you a clue that the book has vampires. Now, of course, this could be good or bad, if you want the element of surprise… On the back of the U.S. book, the description does state… “Others. They walk among us, observing. Set in contemporary Moscow, where shape shifters, vampires, and street sorcerers linger in the shadows, Night Watch is the first book of the hyper-imaginative fantasy trilogy from bestselling Russian author Sergei Lukyanenko.” Now to be honest, based upon that and the boring cover, I probably would not have bought this book.  
Here are copies of both covers.
RU Version  
US Version

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## rockzmom

Olya, 
While I pondered how to repond to your posts, I realized that you actually made an excellent supportive argument for my original post and proved my reasons why people should see this film. 
Before I get into the main text here, I did want to answer one quick question that you have asked about the film:   

> Where on [s:27whvxag]E[/s:27whvxag]earth did the character of Makovetsky get that stupid photo of the female neighbour where the [s:27whvxag]killed&#39;s[/s:27whvxag] murdered husband's wife was cut [s:27whvxag]off[/s:27whvxag] out?

 At the beginning of the film, as the jurors are getting ready to leave the courtroom and go to the school, the neighbor asks the bailiff if she can have her photos back that she gave to the judge and he tells her no.  So the neighbor herself gave them over as evidence. 
Now, onto my response… 
Most of the items in the film that could be considered “flaws” by some, for me just weren’t germane enough points in the story to matter. It is just like the flashback scenes, to me, they were not relevant, they could have been 100% accurate or not, it did not matter to what *I* considered the main point of the movie.  
Each person brings with them their own unique experiences and viewpoints into a situation, *into this Forum and Thread*.  For you, it appears that the movie was not realistic, because you have not experienced or witnessed firsthand a number of things that happened in the film or simply could not believe them to be true and this took away from your film experience. You could not suspend belief and this is a major thing that needs to happen for a person to “enjoy” a film. While I on the other hand, eitehr didn't care or could believe them to true and even if I had a little difficulty with them, I decided that possibly, just possibly they could be true.  
Let me try to illustrate by using just one comment you made in your post (I could cite examples for each one) :   

> Another falsity. Do you really believe that a wife can throw a [s:27whvxag]smoothing[/s:27whvxag] smoldering iron at her husband silently, without any word or scream just one second after he gave a slight clip on the back of the son's head?

 Apparently, you have been very fortunate in your life and have never experienced or known anyone who has experienced Domestic Abuse. I on the other hand, have witnessed firsthand a wife throwing one of those old heavy telephones at her husband’s head without any warning. Literality ripping it out of the wall as she did it, only because she was angry with him. And just as in the movies, it happened so quickly, I was unable to utter any sound and therefore unable to warn the man that he was about to be struck upside the head and to duck.  
So, for me Olya, this is not a “falsity.” This is not some made up fictional story line that could never happen and this is part of what I bring to the table versus what you or someone else would bring to the table. It is how we are different and how our backgrounds and views of the world would lead us to maybe find someone innocent versus guilty. To have compassion in a particular circumstance or not. It proves the entire point of the film.  
We all have emotional, psychological and prejudicial baggage that we carry around with us. It clouds our judgment, for better or worse. This film helps explore those differences whether they be Russian, Chechenian, Jewish, American, doctor, undertaker, circus performer, scientist or something in between *IF* we open up our minds to the possibility that they exist.

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## Оля

> At the beginning of the film, as the jurors are getting ready to leave the courtroom and go to the school, the neighbor asks the bailiff if she can have her photos back that she gave to the judge and he tells her no. So the neighbor herself gave them over as evidence.

 Aha... I see. I didn't remember that, thank you. But I still think that she wouldn't have any reasons to give herself those photos to the court (and she could did it only herself as she's just a witness), and I do find it very strange. 
As for that a wing of a house under construction can't be planned on a place of another habitable house, it's not a question of my experience or unexperience – it's just a LAW. You would never get a permission on building until another house is demolished. 
As for that no one says a word about the guy's testimony – it's not a question of my experience either, it's just the simplest logic. 
And, you know, I actually don't mean that a viewer can't "enjoy" this film. Of course he can. Because this film actually is a _show_. I don't mean anything humiliating here. I just mean it's a show, with a good picture, popular actors, some effects like throwing a knife, and so on. So yes, of course, one can enjoy it. Why not enjoy a show? But don't tell me there is truth about people in that film.

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## rockzmom

> But don't tell me there is truth about people in that film.

 Please help me to understand. Please educate me. 
Are you saying that you are in no way, shape or form prejudice?  And that you have never witnessed or experience any prejudice in your entire life? No racial, religious, political or sexual bias? That this does not exist in Russia *at all*?   *Is this the experience of others in Russia as well?* 
When I ask this, I am *NOT* being accusatory or sarcastic; I am genuinely wanting to know because I find it astonishing if this is the case.

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## Оля

Oh, no, rockzmom, you didn't understand me well. If you mean that the movie is about _prejudice_, that it tries to touch upon that problem, I completely agree with you. When I said there is no "truth" in the movie, I did not mean that there is no prejudice in life. I meant that too many details in the movie seemed completely false to me, and that the attempt to make a good movie about prejudice was not successful (in my opinion). The characters, the events, the logic, the circumstances - a lot of them seemed untruthful to me, and the movie itself didn't touch me.

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## Basil77

Unfortunately I didn't watch the original movie, but while watching the Mikhalkov's one I had a feeling that the whole plot is dragged for ears. So I agree with Оля. But may be it's for people who like psychological (fiction  ::  ) drama with good actors.

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## Rtyom

> plot is dragged for ears

   ::

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## Basil77

> Originally Posted by Basil77  plot is dragged for ears

 Я хотел сказать что сюжет за уши притянут, просто буквально на английский перевёл.  ::  Просто настолько всё надуманно, что лучше бы было переносить действие куда-нибудь в будущее на Марс, и на таком антураже делать римейк.

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## rockzmom

> If you mean that the movie is about _prejudice_, that it tries to touch upon that problem, I completely agree with you.

 To steal a quote from another movie, "Yes. Yes, a thousand times, yes!" That was exactly what I was trying to express.   

> But may be it's for people who like psychological (fiction  ) drama with good actors.

 Basil77, Welcome to the Thread! And... nicely worded comment and smiley to boot!!!  ::     *Next movie review.... Day Watch &  17 Moments of Spring coming up soon....*   *Also, has anyone seen any of the movies from the Golden Globe Awards?* 
Slumdog Millionaire http://www.foxsearchlight.com/slumdogmillionaire/ (won Best Motion Picture - Drama)
Frost/Nixon http://www.frostnixonthemovie.com/
Revolutionary Road http://www.revolutionaryroadmovie.com/
The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button http://www.benjaminbutton.com/
The Reader http://thereader-movie.com/
Waltz With Bashir http://waltzwithbashir.com/ (won Best Foreign Language Film) 
If so, even though they aren't "Russian" films, I would love to hear what you thought about them!!   ::

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## Оля

> Я хотел сказать что сюжет за уши притянут, просто буквально на английский перевёл.

 Lingvo says it's "far-fetched" in English.  ::    

> Просто настолько всё надуманно, что лучше бы было переносить действие куда-нибудь в будущее на Марс, и на таком антураже делать римейк.

 I'll translate it for rockzmom since she asks us to write in English in this thread and since I want to second your opinion: It's just so much farfetched that it would be better to move the action to the future and to Mars and to make a remake in _that_ environment.
Actually that's exactly what I think, too.

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by Basil77  It's just so much farfetched that it would be better to move the action to the future and to Mars and to make a remake in _that_ environment.   Actually that's exactly what I think, too.

 Ouch! Et tu, Basil77?   
You know, *IF* my book ever gets published and turned into a movie, I really hate to think which planet you will send my plot to. Or maybe it would be a black hole???   ::   
I am seeing a pattern here.... Russians against (correction WAY against), Non-Russians pro.  
With that, here might be a really short and sweet (tounge in cheek) review of the movie "*12*" 
If you are Russian, don't expect to enjoy this film. The plot is awful and filled with too many impossible situations that in no way could it ever happen. Russian film makers trying to make  Hollywood style movie while also trying to make a political statment.  
If you aren't Russian, expect to that you will be able to suspend belief and enjoy this film with good acting and an interesting psychological view of prejudice in Russian that can easily mirror the prejudice in our society as a whole. 
Does that about sum it up???   ::

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## Lt. Columbo

im looking foward to the Russians' review of обитаемый остров   ::

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## translationsnmru

> im looking foward to the Russians' review of обитаемый остров

 You know, it has been a subject of some VERY heated debates. Basically, most people who have seen it are split in two camps.
People from camp one typically say: "This movie sucks because... <a very, very long list or reasons follows>"
People from camp two listen to all those reasons and reply: "So what? It is still good!"   ::

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## Оля

> You know, it has been a subject of some VERY heated debates. Basically, most people who have seen it are split in two camps.
> People from camp one typically say: "This movie sucks because... <a very, very long list or reasons follows>"
> People from camp two listen to all those reasons and reply: "So what? It is still good!"

 The thing "To be continued... IN THREE MONTHS" is not good, I think.   ::

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## Lt. Columbo

i came very close to watching it yesterday but went for сказки на ночь instead (which, to my surprise, i actually quite enjoyed).
i think ill wait until i can download it and see if it's any worse than груз 200 which currently is the worst russian movie i have ever seen   ::

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## BappaBa

> груз 200 which currently is the worst russian movie i have ever seen

 Еще есть "Морфий" того же режиссера. =)  *x-rated* 
[video:v1705ava]http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=5tRf9SY9U-A[/video:v1705ava]

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## Waterlaz

*rockzmom*
Since you've already started reading russian books I realy recommend "The Master and Margarita" by Mikhail Bulgakov. 
This is a novell about the Devil visiting Moscow. Bulgakov was sure that it would never be published. And he had been writing it for 10 years just for fun. 
But the shortend version of the novell was first published in 1966 (Bulgakov died in 1940)

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by Lt. Columbo  груз 200 which currently is the worst russian movie i have ever seen     Еще есть "Морфий" того же режиссера. =)

 BappaBa, 
After viewing that lovely graphic clip (thank goodness the girls were not here... you should have put a rating on that thing  ::  ) and having absolutely no clue as to what this movie is about, I seriously doubt that I will watch this artistic masterpiece!  
Lt. Columbo, I'll let you watch this one for me FIRST, and let me know what you think!

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## rockzmom

> *rockzmom*
> Since you've already started reading Russian books I really recommend "The Master and Margarita" by Mikhail Bulgakov. 
> This is a novel[s:za9a5akr]l[/s:za9a5akr] about the Devil visiting Moscow. Bulgakov was sure that it would never be published. And he had been writing it for 10 years just for fun. 
> But the shortened version of the novel[s:za9a5akr]l[/s:za9a5akr] was first published in 1966 (Bulgakov died in 1940)

 Waterlaz, 
Thanks.  10 years you say and just for fun... So there is hope that I might one day finish my book and have it published? I hope it won't happen AFTER I die; but, then again... if my plot line is not believable enough... 
I found a copy at my local library that was translated by Burgin/Tiernan O'Connor. Accroding to a review on Amazon, that is actually the best translation. http://www.amazon.com/Master-Margari.../dp/0679760806 
There is also a copy online available to download on Scribd with the translation by Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky, http://d.scribd.com/docs/1hvmrod47havddplanto.pdf  
I did get my copy of Ilf & Petrov's, *The Twelve Chairs* that I found on eBay. The copy is from *1961* and was originally $1.25.  It has a very interesting introduction written by Maurice Friedberg from Hunter College that speaks about Russo-American relations. Here is a "small" part of that introduction ... 
"It has long been my considered opinion that strains in Russo-American relations are inevitable as long as the average American persists in picturing the Russian as a gloomy, moody, unpredictable individual, and the average Russian in seeing the American as childish, cheerful and, on the whole, rather primitive. … 
...There are two ways to correct these misconceptions. One would be to import into Russia a considerable number of sober, serious-minded, Russian-speaking American tourists, in exchange for an identical number of cheerful, logical, English-speaking Russians who would visit America. The other, less costly form of cultural exchange would be for the Russians to read more of Hawthorne, Melville, Faulkner, and Tennessee Williams, and for us to become better acquainted with the less solemn- though not at all less profound- Russians. We would do well to read more of Gogol, Saltykov-Shchedrin, Chekhov (the short stories and the one-act plays) and – among Soviet authors – to read Mikhail Zoshchenko and Ilf and Petrov. Thus, in its modest way, the present volume – though outwardly not very “serious” – should contribute to our better understanding of Russia and the Russians and aid us in facing the perils of peaceful coexistence.”

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## Waterlaz

> Thanks. 10 years you say and just for fun... So there is hope that I might one day finish my book and have it published? I hope it won't happen AFTER I die; but, then again... if my plot line is not believable enough...

   ::  
After one of Bulgakov's plays were banned he burned the first version of  "The Master and Margarita".

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## BappaBa

> thank goodness the girls were not here... you should have put a rating on that thing

 sorry, my fault.

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  thank goodness the girls were not here... you should have put a rating on that thing    sorry, my fault.

 No harm, no foul.   ::

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## Оля

> i think ill wait until i can download it and see if it's any worse than груз 200 which currently is the worst russian movie i have ever seen

 Do you mean "*Обитаемый остров*"? Why do you think it could be _that_ bad? I haven't seen "Груз 200", but as for "Обитаемый остров", it's based on a perfect fantastic novel with a very interesting plot so I really wonder why you compare it with "Груз 200" which seems to be just some gory thing...

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## Lt. Columbo

it's not about a gore comparison, gruz 200 had, aside from the stupid gore, a ridiculous plot. the whole thing was a mess, it wasnt like a fantasy horror, it wasnt serious horror. the whole premise was stupid.
just from the trailer, Обитаемый остров just looks like complete отстой.  probably wont be worse than gruz 200, but that will only become clear later! 
once ive seen it i shall look forward to a vicious debate   ::

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## Оля

> just from the trailer, Обитаемый остров just looks like complete отстой.

 I see... Well, I don't like Ф.Бондарчук as a director (as an actor either), so I don't expect him do make a GREAT movie (although maybe fiction like that is exactly his genre?), but as for the plot (at least that of the Strugatsky's book), it is not ridiculous at all; it's a very good novel. The Strugatsky brothers are classical writers of XX century. I've read "Обитаемый остров" two times, and I very much enjoyed it.

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## E-learner

I've watched _Обитаемый остров_ and I didn't like it. The whole thing is aesthetically alien to me. In this, aesthetical, respect, it reminded me of _Blade Runner_, which I didn't get either. 
I got mildly interested only halfway through the film, when I sensed something familiar and actually interesting, and that turned out to be the elements of Strugatskie's plot. 
I don't think I'm going to watch the second part. Although I'm not a great fan of Strugatskie, I'd rather re-read the novel.   ::  And just in order to not give you the idea that when it comes to SF I am not a fan of anything at all, I will tell you that I consider myself a fan of, for example, Lem's _The Invincible_, or the film _Brazil_ (1985).

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## rockzmom

> P.S. I think Shurick meant "the wor*st* movie".

 Yes, good catch on this one.... I missed it!  ::  (However, your punctuation should be inside the quotation marks.) 
Use 'worse' if you're comparing two things: "I think eggplant is worse than squash, but that's just my opinion." 
Use 'worst' if you're comparing multiple things: "I disagree. Eggplant and boiled cabbage are both vile, but squash is the worst!"   http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Worse-and-Worst 
Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.  http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

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## Shurick

> I know absolutely nothing about this film... Please let me know ... Why do you believe the film did so well at the box office (highest-grossing movie in post-communist Russia)?

  

> 9th Company was the first attempt by Russian filmmakers *to create a big-screen, big-budget movie* about that war, *comparable* to the American Vietnam War movies of the 1980s (Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Born on the Fourth of July). The film was released in September 2005 and became a Russian box office hit, generating $7.7 million in its first five days of release alone, a new domestic record.

 My answer - becouse of money 
ps. thank for your corrections, i meant "worst" of course.

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## alexB

> My answer - because of money 
> ps. thanks for your corrections (or _thank you for your corrections_), i meant "worst" of course.

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## Оля

Since this thread is not only about movies, but also about books, I'd like to ask if anyone on this forum read the famous(?) classical English novel "Vanity Fair". (I suppose at least in England it should be famous; although an Englishman who I asked about it told me that he only knew the title).
And if you did, what do you think about it?   ::

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## Leof

Hey, I have read it, does it count? Are you curious to hear what I think?

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## rockzmom

To piggyback on Olya's book question...  
As she pointed out that it is probably too soon for any of the non-native English speakers to have seen the movie "The Reader" ... 
I am wondering if any of you have read "The Reader" as it was first published in German in 1995 and then translated into English in 1997???  
According to Wikipedia, it has been translated into 37 languages, so I am guessing that it was translated into Russian at some point.   ::

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## rockzmom

> Hey, I have read it, does it count? Are you curious to hear what I think?

 Leof!!!! 
I am speaking up out of turn here and I hope that Olya does not mind when I say.... *OF COURSE!!!*  
Everyone counts here! Please, please, please... tell us your thoughts.  ::

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## Leof

Ah, then! 
I loved it! A lot. Though, my for all time favorite author is Dickens, I appreciated Thackeray's special bitter humor and his sharp look at life very much. So many times I have thought why do all these books end so happily, and smoothly, and logically (which according to real life is quite illogically and far from reality)? Many times I tрought why has there never existed a book where evil wins, where good is shown with all its drawbacks? So, The Vanity Fair (as a real piece of critical realism) was for ten steps closer to this my ideal: Nobody is perfect, but this makes us people. Both dark and bright colors; the way we love and betray; the way we show the generosity and then show cowardlyness, how we can actually be. People who are completely sunny or completely dull and stormy, windy and grey like rainy days are very rare. Most of us are changing, moody, like the day where clouds and wind close and then open again the sun constantly. None of Thackeray's heroes (I have read only one of his books) are perfect or однозначны, односторонни. Becky is sparking and beautiful, smart and witty, strong, she is a fruit, but she is a heartless mother and betraying wife. Amelia Sedley is sweet and tender, but, she is silly and simply a simpleton because she loves the wrong man and doesn't appreciate the love of the most generous man of her lifetime. And Dobbin is fair and generous and so loyal to all his principals of honor and love, but, even he understands (and too late) that he was stupid and lost his best years in vain in sake of the woman who does not deserve his love. Becky's husband is a natural fool, but he is a man of honor and bravery and he loves her truly and with endless loyalty. 
But the more I see how fair and cynical the Life attends to the heroes in the book, then the more I felt how deeply I was attached to it's action. I feel how true is Thackeray. Life is the mixture of the salt and sugar and we are supposed to eat this blend until we die. When I think about wild animals which eat the flesh (wolves or lions) I think how much dull and similar is their daily meal without fire, salt and spices. But they have to eat it, tasteless, only tasting of blood. So are we. We have to eat what the life gives. Happiness and bitter of disappointments and grief, эйфория and pain of love, we have to feel the taste of our deeds. We betray our friends and make the new ones. We make our relatives feel beloved and unhappy. It's a life, it is the real taste of life. The man who is known as the most reasonable person of his gender makes the biggest stupidity. We are the причудливая mixture of virtues and sins (добродетелей и пороков). And we love it. 
Nobody is perfect. Nobody is hopeless. We all are bad, we all are good. There is no winning without the loss and no good without bad. Our world - the human's world - is a vanity fair, colorful range of events. The greatest events which stood unseen and stupid events which turns on everyone's tongue.  
He was very very true in his viewing of the life. Dickens can lie and hide the evident truth, he is an idealist. He is true but until some border where Thackeray stepped over this border. There are no more just good or just bad heroes. They all are good and bad.  
Here is what I can tell in "English" (I would be more constructive talking in Russian though)  edited with help of the rockzmom. Thank you!

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## ski-ops

> Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.  http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

 This only applies to American English. With British English the punctuation only goes within the quotation marks if it was present in the original quote.

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## Оля

Лёва, thank you so much.   :: 
You guys can't even imagine how much I *LOVE* that book, but unfortunally I am not eloquent like Лёва, so I even don't know what could I add... I only want to say that there are few people who read this novel, and that's sad. I read it at least three times, the latter time I did it recently, and everytime it was a great pleasure. Now I intend to read it in English... some time.   ::

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## Leof

I am very honoured hearing such words, Оль, from you, it was very kind of you.
Спасибо.

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## rockzmom

Leof, 
I truly hated to correct or change any of your review as it was most eloquently written. ::   
Your review makes me want to stop reading all the other things I have bookmarks in and stop watching all the movies I have waiting for me and put Vanity Fair on the top of my pile.   
I hope that the liberties I took with my changes were correct. Please let me know if I misunderstood any of your meanings. Additionally, I did make spelling and grammatical changes to be "American" style and not British.      Rockzmom   

> I loved it! [s:3ei14u3m]Alot[/s:3ei14u3m] A lot . Though, my for all time[s:3ei14u3m]s[/s:3ei14u3m] favorite author is Dickens.  I appreciated Thackeray's special bitter humor and his sharp look at [s:3ei14u3m]the[/s:3ei14u3m] life very much. So many times I have thought why do all these books end so [s:3ei14u3m]happy[/s:3ei14u3m] happily, and smoothly and [s:3ei14u3m]logycally[/s:3ei14u3m] logically (which [s:3ei14u3m]was[/s:3ei14u3m] according to [s:3ei14u3m]the[/s:3ei14u3m] real life is quite [s:3ei14u3m]ilogically[/s:3ei14u3m] illogically and far from [s:3ei14u3m]life[/s:3ei14u3m] reality)? Many times I [s:3ei14u3m]tought[/s:3ei14u3m] thought why has there never existed [s:3ei14u3m]the[/s:3ei14u3m] a book where [s:3ei14u3m]the[/s:3ei14u3m] evil wins, where good is shown with all its drawbacks (недостатки)[s:3ei14u3m].[/s:3ei14u3m]?  So, The Vanity Fair (as a real [s:3ei14u3m]peace[/s:3ei14u3m] piece of [s:3ei14u3m]the[/s:3ei14u3m] [s:3ei14u3m]crytycal[/s:3ei14u3m] critical realism) was for ten steps closer to this my [s:3ei14u3m]idea[/s:3ei14u3m] ideal: Nobody is perfect. But this makes us people. Both [s:3ei14u3m]darck[/s:3ei14u3m] dark and bright colors. The way we love and betray[s:3ei14u3m],[/s:3ei14u3m]; the way we show the generosity and then show [s:3ei14u3m]how cowardly[/s:3ei14u3m] cowardliness, how  we can actually be. People who are completely sunny or [s:3ei14u3m]completelly[/s:3ei14u3m] completely dull and [s:3ei14u3m]storming[/s:3ei14u3m] stormy,  [s:3ei14u3m]and[/s:3ei14u3m] windy and grey like rainy days are very rare. Most of us are changing, moody, like the day where clouds and wind close and open like the sun [s:3ei14u3m]contantly[/s:3ei14u3m] constantly. [s:3ei14u3m]No one[/s:3ei14u3m]  None of Thackeray's heroes (I [s:3ei14u3m]rerad[/s:3ei14u3m] reread only one of his books) are perfect or однозначны, односторонни. Becky is sparking and beautiful, smart and witty, strong, she is a fruit, but she is a heartless mother and a [s:3ei14u3m]betraing[/s:3ei14u3m] betraying wife. Amelia Sedley is sweet and tender[s:3ei14u3m],[/s:3ei14u3m]; but, she is silly and simply a simpleton because she loves the wrong man and doesn't appreciate the love of the most generous man of her lifetime. And Dobbin is fair and generous and so loyal to all his principals of honor and love[s:3ei14u3m],[/s:3ei14u3m]; but, even he understands (and too late) that he was stupid and lost his best years in vain in sake of the woman who unlikely (doesn't?) deserves his love. Becky's husband is a natural [s:3ei14u3m]full[/s:3ei14u3m] fool[s:3ei14u3m],[/s:3ei14u3m]; but, he is a man of honour (American spelling is honor) and [s:3ei14u3m]bravity[/s:3ei14u3m] bravery and he loves her truly and with endless [s:3ei14u3m]loyal[/s:3ei14u3m] loyalty. 
> But [s:3ei14u3m]as[/s:3ei14u3m] the more I see how fair and [s:3ei14u3m]cinycal[/s:3ei14u3m] cynical is the Life [s:3ei14u3m]to[/s:3ei14u3m] of the heroes [s:3ei14u3m]of[/s:3ei14u3m] in the book, then the more I [s:3ei14u3m]feel[/s:3ei14u3m] felt how deeply I [s:3ei14u3m]am[/s:3ei14u3m] was attached to [s:3ei14u3m]it&#39;s[/s:3ei14u3m] its action. I feel how true is Thackeray. Life is the mixture of the salt and [s:3ei14u3m]suggar[/s:3ei14u3m] sugar and we are supposed to eat this blend [s:3ei14u3m]untill[/s:3ei14u3m] until we die. When I think about wild animals which eat the [s:3ei14u3m]flach[/s:3ei14u3m] flesh ([s:3ei14u3m]wolfes[/s:3ei14u3m] wolves or lions) I [s:3ei14u3m]thing[/s:3ei14u3m] think how much dull and similar is their daily meal without fire, salt and spices. But they have to eat it, tasteless, only [s:3ei14u3m]taste[/s:3ei14u3m] tasting of blood. So are we [s:3ei14u3m]are[/s:3ei14u3m]. We have to eat what the life gives us. [s:3ei14u3m]Happyness[/s:3ei14u3m] Happiness and bitter of disappointments and grief, эйфория and pain of love, we have to feel the taste of our deeds. We betray our friends and make the new ones. We make our relatives feel beloved and unhappy. It's a life[s:3ei14u3m],[/s:3ei14u3m] ; it is the real taste of life. The man [s:3ei14u3m]which was count[/s:3ei14u3m] who is known as the most reasonable person of his gender makes the biggest stupidity. We are the причудливая mixture of virtues and sins (добродетелей и пороков). And we love it. 
> Nobody is perfect. Nobody is hopeless. We all are bad, we all are good. There is no [s:3ei14u3m]winn[/s:3ei14u3m] winning without the loss and no good without bad. Our world - the human's world - is a vanity fair, [s:3ei14u3m]colorfull[/s:3ei14u3m] colorful range of events. The greatest events which stood unseen and stupid events which turns on everyone's tongue.  
> He was very, very true in his viewing of the life. Dickens can lie and hide the evident [s:3ei14u3m]thruth[/s:3ei14u3m] truth, he is an idealist. He is true but [s:3ei14u3m]untill[/s:3ei14u3m] until some border where Thackeray [s:3ei14u3m]speped[/s:3ei14u3m] stepped over this border. There are no more just good or just bad heroes. They all are good and bad.  
> Here is what I can tell in "English" (I would be more constructive talking in Russian though)

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## Leof

Arr! You did your best corrections while I was so intempering as to ask you about it!
Thank you for leaving the overlined words, it makes the correction more helpfull!
I am about to investigate what you kindly corrected. 
...
Now if you let me I shall take your redaction almost without changings.
Thank you a lot for it!

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## Оля

Лёва, а ты не мог бы сказать на русском, что ты имел в виду вот здесь:
But as more I see how fair and cinycal is the Life to the heroes of the book then more I feel how deeply I am attached to it's action.
Особенно слово fair.
Может, ты имел в виду "But the more I see how nice(ly?) _or_ cynical(ly?) Life treats the heroes of the book..." ?

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## Leof

О господи! Оля, пожалуйста, не разбирай меня при жизни!
Что же я хотел сказать-то. А то, что обстоятельства жизни героев Ярмарки складываются ни по какому-то всеблагостному закону провидения, ни по воле автора, склонного к морализаторству или самообману ради человеколюбия (как у Диккенса, за что я его всё-таки очень люблю). Я думаю, что герои и события книги подсказаны самой жизнью, тем, как нам возвращается при жизни. Здесь нет ни лишнего, ни недоокрашенного - хорошее или плохое настигает героев, мы чувствуем, что это справедливо, что так и должно быть, что так рассудила жизнь, а значит это верно, и нам становится спокойно. Даже зная о несчастье Доббина и позднем озарении Эмилии, зная о внутреннем противоречии Бекки, которая верит в свою правоту и _знает всё же, что она заслужила то, к чему пришла - зная о разочаровании героев, я чувствую, что оно кажется им справедливым. А справедливость произошедшего (даже наказания), соответсвтвие нашему внутреннему ощущению правды - это главное то, что даёт нам спокойствие и уверенность. Если я несправедливо счастлив, например, я не счастлив - происходящее не вкладывается в моё понимание правды. Если, допустим, я справедливо наказан, я пережив несчастье, всё же успокаиваюсь, так как понимаю, что всё это согласно с правдой (моей внутренней правдой в том числе). То есть всё в романе справедливо, и я ощущаю спокойствие, так как мне явлена справедливость в жизни этих людей. Я автоматически перекладываю события и чувства героев на свою жизнь и, чувствуя совпадения, испытываю приятнейшее сопереживание героям. То есть то, от чего мы любим или не любим какую-то книгу. Я больше и больше проникаюсь прочитанным, понимая (иногда сквозь выступающие слёзы), что написанное - правдиво, справедливо. То есть, я верю, что даже человек. осуждённый за преступления на смерть, может испытать удовлетворение от неминуемости казни. Так как глубоко в душе это действие соответсвует его подлинному пониманию правды. Если с ним поступят справедливо, а он исполнит то, что заслужил (умрёт), значит он правдивый человек, значит он получил право на мир со своей совестью.  
Знаешь, Андрей Болконский плохо кончил, но те слова, что он сказал, мне близки как никакие - что счастье есть лишь то, когда мы свободны от болезней и угрызений совести. Вот я считаю высшим благом жить в мире с самим собой, соответсввовать той правде, в которую ты веришь самым искреним образом. 
Так вот, возвращаясь к Ярмарке. Теккерей циник, но он честен, правдив, он не скрывает от себя и от нас (как Диккенс) то, что следут произнести по-совести. Если Диккенс спешит спасти наши чувства под сенью сентиментального переживания, сострадания, то Теккерей не выражает осстрадания. Он беспристрастен, как природа, и в этом его высшее милосердие. Так как он в высшей степени правдив и справедлив. По крайней мере в Ярмарке (а больше я пока ничего его не читал). 
Вот, Оля.
А ещё ужасно неловко, когда мы с тобой при людях разговариваем по-английски, но тут уж ничего уж...  ::   corrected

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## Оля

Oh no, Лёёёёёёваааааа!   ::  I understand all your thoughts about Thackeray, I just wanted to make clear one phrase... Because I didn't understand it and especially the word "fair". Because judging by the whole structure of the sentence ("is the Life *to* the heroes *of* the book") it seemed to be "жизнь цинична/жестока и [что-то, что-то] *к* героям роман*а*" in Russian. I just wondered about it since rockzmom corrected it in another way.
Well, I see now that my curiosity was a fatal error.   ::  
P.S. Тьфу, дошло. Fair - это "справедливый".

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## Leof

А! Да? Я последние годы начал подозревать, что словао справедливый пишется по-английски не совсем так, как я привык его писать...  ::    
PS О господи!  ::   
(   ::   )

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.  http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp   This only applies to American English. With British English the punctuation only goes within the quotation marks if it was present in the original quote.

 ski-ops,
So you mean for *ONCE*, American English has an easier rule to remember???? This is truly amazing!!!  ::

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## Scrabus

> Originally Posted by ski-ops        Originally Posted by rockzmom  Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.  http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp   This only applies to American English. With British English the punctuation only goes within the quotation marks if it was present in the original quote.   ski-ops,
> So you mean for *ONCE*, American English has an easier rule to remember???? This is truly amazing!!!

 I would say that American English has simplified rules in general -).  The Leof's review was a really touching thing! Great job!

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## rockzmom

> Now I intend to read it in English... some time.

 If you have not already located a copy online, here are some links to the English version of "Vanity Fair." This book is available without copywrite now.   *Vanity fair : a novel without a hero*
Thackeray, William Makepeace, 1811-1863. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanity_Fair_(novel)  http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/599  - This site has it in Plucker (for Palm™ organizer or smartphone), HTML, and Plain Text formats.  http://www.scribd.com/doc/5092532/Vanity-Fair - This site allows you to read it online in a great format and even lets you adjust the font size (which is really nice).  You can also download it in PDF or Plain Text. If you want to download it, you will need to establish a free account, if you do not have one already.

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## Оля

Thanks, rockzmom. I've seen it also on http://www.bartleby.com
But I actually mean that I'm going to buy a "paper" book in English. It's not that hard, but I just need to get rid of some problems and "tune up" myself for such hard but interesting reading.  ::

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## rockzmom

> P.S. rockzmom, your thread somehow is standing still now... When can we hope to read your new review about some movie (if you don't mind me asking)?

 Yes, yes, yes... I know I have been delinquent, a thousand apologizes.   ::   
I can tell you that the girls have been keeping me busy with Shakespeare (A Midsummer’s Night Dream and Romeo & Juliet), Cleopatra (Her lasting Legacy), Zheng He (China's most famous navigator) and The Ear, the Eye, the Arm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ear...ye_and_the_Arm.  
Shakespeare’s Midsummer has been completed and R&J is just starting.  The Ear... I have read before, so that should not be too time consuming. Within the next two weeks, Cleopatra and Zheng He should be completed as well!    ::  If anyone studied these or has thoughts on these topics, I would be pleased to hear from you!!!  
Also, I have learned that sadly, “Russia, the USSR and the Commonwealth of Independent States” (currently the main areas of study to be …. “Identify the major physical and cultural characteristics of the former Soviet Union” and “Describe the evolution of the Russian civilization from czarist Russia through the end of the Soviet Era”) *will not* be studied in 7th grade as the curriculum had indicated.   ::   
It has now been moved to 11th grade. Of course this means that you all will be stuck with me for a good three or four years because I am counting on *EACH AND EVERY ONE* of you to help me with this when the time comes.   ::   
All this means, that I hope to get back to watching films within a week, two tops!

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## capecoddah

"You're gonna need a bigger boat." 
Jaws, 1975  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073195/quotes  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkl3eXAHTRM&NR=1 
I LOVE this movie, can quote to distraction. Russian connection? I invite some of the Russian kids I work with in summer to go fishing, then watch this movie on a slow night at the motel. They don't go swimming after work for a couple nights   ::   
"The Russians Are Coming the Russians Are Coming" 1966 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060921/  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_nGW7pWBDY 
Russian connection? Every summer our peaceful New England community is invaded by Russians, I don't mind though.

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## rockzmom

While waiting for my next review (or anyone else’s review… thanks, capecoddah for yours) I would like to throw out a topic for discussion to the group here. 
Why do you think, even now after many years have passed… American movies and television portray Russians (almost always) as mobsters, spies or thugs? Why never as the heroes? Now I must admit, in the examples below, “Life” did have *one* of the Russians, “the Architect” be a good guy, but overall, the rest were just the same stereotypes as not "nice" people. 
And in Russian movies, how are Americans portrayed? 
Here are two very recent examples: 
Thick as Thieves (2009) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1112782/
Release: 17 April 2009, but out now here http://movie25.com/thick-as-thieves-2009_4065.html
Description: A veteran thief (Morgan Freeman) recruits a younger crook (Antonio Banderas) to help him pull off one final job in order to repay his debt to the Russian mob and save his god-daughter (Radha Mitchell). 
Life (NBC TV Series) Dec 12, 2008 http://www.hulu.com/watch/49449/life-trapdoor
While investigating a triple execution-style homicide, Reese and Crews go up against an old nemesis, a Russian mob boss who has woven a deadly and wicked web. 
Thanks!

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## Оля

> And in Russian movies, how are Americans portrayed?

 Mostly, as big children, I think. Who speak very loudly and always smile. Never as "bad guys". But actually, you wouldn't find many Americans in Russian movies.  ::

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## rockzmom

> Mostly, as big children, I think.

 I think I would say "big babies" instead of "big children."    

> Who speak very loudly

 Oh, yeah, we speak loudly so that we can get a word in edgewise. Otherwise your thoughts/vote/idea will never be heard and you end up with the worst chores in the house or getting blamed for something you did not do!   

> and always smile.

 Of course, even when hula hopping, eating watermelon or just blow drying our hair!     *we can't help it*  ::  !!!!!

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## Scrabus

> Life (NBC TV Series) Dec 12, 2008 http://www.hulu.com/watch/49449/life-trapdoor
> While investigating a triple execution-style homicide, Reese and Crews go up against an old nemesis, a Russian mob boss who has woven a deadly and wicked web. 
> Thanks!

 Unfortunately, hulu.com site allows to watch its video just to the users from USA. (

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## rockzmom

> Unfortunately, hulu.com site only allows users to watch its video [s:239jod0p]with[/s:239jod0p] who have US IP addresses. [s:239jod0p]just to the users from USA[/s:239jod0p]. (  OR....  Unfortunately, hulu.com only allows people in the USA to watch videos posted on their Web site.

 I think I have found a site which will let you view a number of US TV shows and I have bookmarked it for the episode in question. Click the play button and then a pop up screen with an ad comes up that you simply need to click the "skip this ad" button and it will return you back to the first screen and then hit the play arrow again.  
Sorry, no subtitles for these programs.   ::      But they are very current and they also have back seasons as well.    http://www.ninjavideo.net/video/16148 
Let me know if you have any  other problems...

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## capecoddah

"Leave the gun, take the canolli" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1-y9-m-CU0&NR=1 
 WOW!!! Godfather 1 & 2 are quotable

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## studyr

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  And in Russian movies, how are Americans portrayed?   Mostly, as big children, I think. Who speak very loudly and always smile. Never as "bad guys". But actually, you wouldn't find many Americans in Russian movies.

 I have found one  ::   ::   ::  
[video:vryw1klg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkX6v-vF0II[/video:vryw1klg]

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## rockzmom

> I have found one     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkX6v-vF0II

 studyr  - -   ::   I am lost the video you posted   ::   Is there anyway you or someone else can just give me the "Reader's Digest Condensed Version" of it?  Remember... I am the one who knows NO Russian on this forum    ::   so I am at the mercy of the smarter ones to help me out. 
Okay, so I found the film trailer for this movie, yet it does not help out too much but it looks funny!!!
[video:32j6llkb]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Xd23I2Dv4[/video:32j6llkb] 
Thanks!

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## Shurick

I think this movies good to watch to answer how Americans portrayed in our movies, I think its a good examples "Russian man among American people, among American culture"
Американская дочь  American Daughter   http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112348/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ0eORkXdeA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqiAHmSXcF8
Брат 2  The Brother 2    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0238883/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyY1HbnacPo 
I think we love to see themselves as a "simple hero" into the "cruel world of money", and this world in some movies associate with USA. But as you'll can see in this movies, many of Americans portrayed not at all сruel, many of them very kind.

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## Полуношник

> Originally Posted by studyr   I have found one     
> studyr  - -    I am lost the video you posted    Is there anyway you or someone else can just give me the "Reader's Digest Condensed Version" of it?  Remember... I am the one who knows NO Russian on this forum     so I am at the mercy of the smarter ones to help me out. 
> Thanks!

 Deja Vu (1988 film) 
They say "comedy thriller" but actually it's a grotesque. Russian and American characters are stereotypes in the purest form. 
In the fragment presented by studyr a Soviet professor asks the guide to introduce him to the American professor (who is actually a killer). Then a women on a bicycle reminds to the professor that he has to pass GTO tests. The instructor is unaware that the another guy is an American. He demands from him to shoot. When he realizes who is it he become highly displeased by the fact that American professors are ready for labour and defense but Russian professors are not.

----------


## E-learner

> Then a women on a bicycle reminds to the professor that he has to pass GTO tests

 ...or else he will not be allowed to take part in subbotnik.
That was funny.

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## Полуношник

[quote=E-learner] 

> Then a women on a bicycle reminds to the professor that he has to pass GTO tests

 ...or else he will not be allowed to take part in subbotnik.
That was funny.[/quote:2rrjsm86]
Not only he but whole his department. Awful punishment   ::

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## rockzmom

Okay all you movie fans!!! 
Two history (one on "Cleopatra: A Prototype for Today’s Ideal Modern Woman Leader and the other on Zheng He's Legacy), one science (on Myotonic Dystrophy including gene, hereditary and DNA analysis), and one theater (Mid Summers Night Dream) reports have all been completed!  ::   ::   ::   
So, I have loaded up my Archos with two movies: Gentlemen of Fortune and White Sun of the Dessert Rose and hopefully I will be able to sit back, relax and watch one if not both of these movies and then be able to write at least one long overdue review!  ::  
Rockzmom.

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## rockzmom

> As she pointed out that it is probably too soon for any of the non-native English speakers to have seen the movie "The Reader" ... 
> I am wondering if any of you have read "The Reader" as it was first published in German in 1995 and then translated into English in 1997???  
> According to Wikipedia, it has been translated into 37 languages, so I am guessing that it was translated into Russian at some point.

 I know I have posted this question before and with Kate Winslet winning the Oscar for best actress for "The Reader" last night. 
I have read the book and seen the movie and IMHO, these are both wonderful pieces of art. This movie is one of a very few that I have seen where it is actually fairly true to the book. There were a few changes of course, but all in all it was very faithful and I was not disappointed. 
In addition, it was fascinating for me to know that the young man who played the teenage Michael, David Kross, only had a “school” knowledge of English and was spending as much as seven hours a day with a dialect coach to help him learn English for his role. 
Finally, it was interesting for me to see this perspective of how this time in our history affected the people of Germany (the ones who lived through it and the future generations). The characters and relationship development didn't hurt either. 
I know that this may be a difficult movie for nonnative English speakers to watch; however, I encourage you to give it a try or at least watch it once it has subtitles in your native language. Better yet, read the book first (it’s a quick read) and then try watching it in English with English subtitles!

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## CoffeeCup

> "Leave the gun, take the canolli"
>  WOW!!! Godfather 1 & 2 are quotable

 Do Americans are really citing the "Godfather" as shown in the "You've Got Mail" movie with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan?!
More over, whether the "Godfather" is the most cited American movie?
The quote "It's not personal. It's strictly business." was deeply engraved in Russia.

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## rockzmom

Hi CoffeeCup! 
Let me try to answers your questions one by one.  

> Do Americans [s:2yg3taxe]are[/s:2yg3taxe] really go around citing the "Godfather" as shown in the movie, "You've Got Mail" [s:2yg3taxe]movie[/s:2yg3taxe] with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan?!

 The answer is yes and no. It depends upon the age of the person and sometimes the gender. Now me, even a hard core film person has only seen PART of Godfather 1, yet I know a number of the famous lines from the movie; however, I rarely if ever cite them. I did upon occasion work with some males who were Godfather fans and they would find a way to work in a line from not only the Godfather but the HBO television series "The Sopranos" or the movie "Goodfellas" as well. So that might give you an idea of the types of films they like. 
So, I guess it just depends upon how much you like the film and if you can find a way to work it into the conversation.   

> More over (I would use the word "Additionally" instead of  more over), whether the "Godfather" is the most cited American movie??!

 According to the 2005, The American Film Institute (AFI), "100 Years of Movie Quotes" the top quote is: 
"Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn." from GONE WITH THE WIND 1939.  
The second is, "I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse." from GODFATHER, THE 1972 
Now, on the first entry of this thread there is a video clip from AFI that has a number of these quotes with the actual scenes from the movies.  
Also I have posted the PDF version of AFI's  list, if you would like to see the entire 100 quotes. http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b...fd8d2383f83d03 
Finally, when reviewing this list from AFI, I noticed that a number of these quotes are from VERY old films. Most 20 or 30 year olds and under may not even know the reference being made.   *Example:*
I remember in the movie "Over the Hedge" there was the scene where Ozzie the Possum was playing dead after being struck by a car said… 
Ozzie: [whispered] Rosebud. 
[while playing Possum] 
Ozzie: Rosebud!  
I busted out laughing and then realized very quickly, I was the *ONLY* one laughing. None of the other adults understood the reference or joke (yes, I felt VERY old), yet, "Rosebud" is #17 on the AFI list. 
Also from Over the Hedge:
Tiger: [calling after Stella sadly] STELLA! 
Tiger: Stella? Stella? Where are you going? Stella? STEEEELLLLLLAAAAAAA!  
Now this one had a few people laughing, but also, not that many and it is #45 on the AFI list. 
So, CoffeeCup... quotes really are age, gender and the right setting! 
Please let me know if you have any further questions.

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## Lampada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI%27s_10 ... vie_Quotes

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## rockzmom

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI%27s...0_Movie_Quotes

 Oh, thank you Lampada! I did not recall that the "100 Years of Movie Quotes" was posted on Wiki *and* with hotlinks to information about the movies too!  
That could be much more useful than the PDF I uploaded!!! 
Gold Stars for you today!!!

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## CoffeeCup

Hi Rockzmom! 
Thanks for corrections.
I've never seen the "Godfather", while also know some lines. But this movie assures me to be the majestic milestone in the history.  

> The second is, "I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse." from GODFATHER, THE 1972

 This quote is also very citied in Russia. As you noted people use the quote without knowledge of the reference.
"100 Years of Movie Quotes" list contains the only two quotes that Russians go around in ENGLISH (All movies in Russia are displayed in Russian). These are  

> #37 I'll be Back
> #76 Hasta la vista, baby.
> both performed by The Terminator

 As for Russia the most cited movies are also from 60's - 70's. Probably that time was the time of cinema raising. The total number of movies was not too high while the passion of audience was overfilled. Each movie was seen many times saturating people with quotes. The quotes started to live among people by their own life and come to our days sometimes lost their references.

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## gRomoZeka

I'm disappointed that I didn't find there "The first rule of Fight Club is, you do not talk about Fight Club..."  :: 
Don't you cite this?

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## rockzmom

> I'm disappointed that I didn't find there "The first rule of Fight Club is, you do not talk about Fight Club..." 
> Don't you cite this?

 No, I don't nor have I heard anyone...but I do love this  
The 8 rules of Fight Club - Kinetic Typography
[video:1ntzg50h]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbMa4MGFCOg[/video:1ntzg50h]

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## rockzmom

> Hi Rockzmom! 
> I've never seen the "Godfather", while also know some lines. But this movie assures me to be the majestic milestone in the history.

 Coffecup.. just so you know, we are not alone in not seeing the Godfather! 
[video:1a8idp3c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avddxEad7u8[/video:1a8idp3c]

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## alexB

> *Example:*
> I remember in the movie "Over the Hedge" there was the scene where Ozzie the Possum was playing dead after being struck by a car said… 
> Ozzie: [whispered] Rosebud. 
> [while playing Possum] 
> Ozzie: Rosebud!  
> I busted out laughing and then realized very quickly, I was the *ONLY* one laughing. None of the other adults understood the reference or joke (yes, I felt VERY old), yet, "Rosebud" is #17 on the AFI list. 
> Also from Over the Hedge:
> Tiger: [calling after Stella sadly] STELLA! 
> Tiger: Stella? Stella? Where are you going? Stella? STEEEELLLLLLAAAAAAA!  
> Now this one had a few people laughing, but also, not that many and it is #45 on the AFI list.

 Having read the Wikipedia’s article on Citizen Kane I got the joke, really funny. 
I missed the second one though
There is *The Simpsons* episode called *Rosebud*, have we got Citizen Kane’s allusion there? Or you don’t like The Simpsons as I came to understand most of the Americans do lately.

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## rockzmom

> Having read the Wikipedia’s article on Citizen Kane I got the joke, really funny. 
> I missed the second one though
> There is *The Simpsons* episode called *Rosebud*, have we got Citizen Kane’s allusion there? Or you don’t like The Simpsons as I came to understand most of the Americans do lately.

 Hi Alex! 
Me, I like the Simpsons it is just on too early for me here, so I usually don't have a chance to watch it. Anything on before 8pm, is hard for me because it is still, primetime for homework or basketball practice or other things like that.  
Yes, the episode was based upon Citizen Kane here is the wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosebud_(The_Simpsons)
however, I am not certain that most viewers actually know the title of the episodes that they watch! So, I am guessing that most "kids" or young adults would NOT have seen the connection betweeen the show and the movie. 
So... 10 points for you Alex! 
Now, about STEEEELLLLLLAAAAAAA! This comes from the play and the movie "A Streetcar Named Desire" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Stree...re_(1951_film) 
Here is the scene from the movie with Marlon Brandon
[video:bn2y0f9j]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1A0p0F_iH8[/video:bn2y0f9j] 
And here is the scene from Over the Hedge:
[video:bn2y0f9j]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVAWLO0mPOY[/video:bn2y0f9j]

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## rockzmom

Hey Alex (and/or others) .... did the episode of The Simpsons called "Treehouse of Horror" air in Russia? If so, was it well received? Was the connection made and understood about the poem "The Raven?" 
I know that my daughters had not heard of Edgar Allan Poe's The Raven (not even Poe and he spent a good amount of time in this area and is burried here!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Allan_Poe 
Not certain if you will be able to open the below URL; however, it has part of the episode.  http://www.facebook.com/video/video....&v=40294228539

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## gRomoZeka

> Hey Alex (and/or others) .... did the episode of The Simpsons called "Treehouse of Horror" air in Russia? If so, was it well received? Was the connection made and understood about the poem "The Raven?"

 Oh, I remember that one! It WAS funny. "Raven" was in the school programm, somewhere around 7th grade (not everywhere, though), and anyway Poe is rather well known here, so most people probably made a connection. 
BTW, I LOVED Poe when I was 7-9 y/o.   ::  His "Murders in the Rue Morgue" and a few other stories ("The Masque of the Red Death" and "Black cat", for example) were my favs. Me and my bro were reading them (along with Wells's "The Island of Doctor Moreau") when we wanted to "get scared". There were no other source of "spookiness" in USSR, you realise. Horror movies and such didn't exist, and kids like to be scared once in a while. The nice part was that the adults never minded this, beacuse it was "classics". ))

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## alexB

Searching for the poem I came upon this http://dotsub.com/view/58591756-7128-48 ... 463d46d907, even with subtitles. I don’t remember Poe from the school program so I wasn’t able to make a connection when watching «Treehouse of Horror" and I sadly admit this part of the episode was lost on me, _ye English of yore_   ::  is hard to understand and there were no subtitles to boot. 
They air sometimes in Russia, but I wish they didn’t. Lousy dubbing eradicates all of the humor. DVDs are my choice.
Thanks for the lowdown on "A Streetcar Named Desire". Now all the pieces fit

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## gRomoZeka

> Searching for the poem I came upon this http://dotsub.com/view/58591756-7128-48 ... 463d46d907, even with subtitles.

 Check this link: http://lib.ru/INOFANT/POE/crown3.txt (there are 8 or 9 different translarions, made in the 19th-20th centuries + original poem)  

> I don’t remember Poe from the school program ...

 I guess our teachers got a little creative...   ::   They did bend a program a little (we studied 'Lolita' and '1984', for example. I'm not sure kids in the other shools had to do this).

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## rockzmom

> BTW, I LOVED Poe when I was 7-9 y/o.   His "Murders in the Rue Morgue" and a few other stories ("The Masque of the Red Death" and "Black cat", for example) were my favs. Me and my bro were reading them (along with Wells's "The Island of Doctor Moreau") when we wanted to "get scared". There were no other source of "spookiness" in USSR, you realise. Horror movies and such didn't exist, and kids like to be scared once in a while. The nice part was that the adults never minded this, beacuse it was "classics". ))

 gRomoZeka,
Being a dark and twisted soul, I was reading Poe at an early age as well, though not to be scared, I just identified with his writings! I too, remember very clearly (a little older than you were) taking my mom's large pale ice blue/green (like a seafoam green almost) covered book off the shelf with all of his work in inside of it and I would read it over and over.

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## rockzmom

> Having read the Wikipedia’s article on Citizen Kane I got the joke, really funny.

 Alex, I remembered another cartoon show, "Pinky and the Brain," not certian if you have seen this show or not, that used the Rosebud theme. 
In this eposiode, they are for certain referencing Citizen Kane, yet don't say "Rosebud."  
So, here is the real clip from Citizen Kane (sorry, it was the shortest one I could find online) and the Pinky and the Brain one so you can see how they did it! 
Citizen Kane
[video:10hwjws1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjVjyxzutwg[/video:10hwjws1] 
Citizen Kane - Pinky and the Brain
[video:10hwjws1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-cS2Y2-Cds[/video:10hwjws1]

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## alexB

You're making me discover America.  ::

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## rockzmom

> You're making me discover America.

 Okay so now I am going to question EVERYTHING and wonder what you get and don't get about The Simpson's .. poor you!!!  ::   (no disrepect I hope you know) 
Okay, here is a link to last night's episode of The Simpsons.Yes, I actually watched it, now, I would like to know, at the very end of the show at around 19:38, Principal Skinner says he is throwing out the schools ban on dancing and they play a song and start dancing. Now, I would like to now, Alex, as your quiz... do you understand this???   
Do you know the song that is being played because that is the clue.  If you don't know the song... you won't understand the joke. So, once again, most kids won't get this, only old people like me!  http://www.megavideo.com/?v=1S0HGJJV

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## alexB

I’ve heard the song somewhere, I did like it then and I liked it this time, cool, awesome, but I did not see *Footloose * and that’s my problem. _How the Test Was Won_ is the name of the episode, _How the West Was Won_ is a classic American movie.  There must be something in it. _Miss Caldecott is now Mr.Newbery_ has to do with Newbery Medal and Caldecott Medal. Not that I’m smart up to here   ::  but there’s nothing in The Simpsons for no reason, so I looked it up.
Shame on me, for I got the number two joke with Principal Skinner. 
How was that, when the piano fell on the Orphanage for the Musically Gifted and the same moment divine music started issuing off the roof hole? By the way, shouldn’t orphanages be for the somehow challenged? *Shy is to gre-gar-ious
As peaceful is to
Bell-icose * song was funny.
Though Otto humming the _Apocalypse Now_ theme of _The Ride of the Valkyrs_ while piloting a chopper-bus was my best, outrageous.  
That’s what I dug up so far.

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## rockzmom

Alex!!!!!! 
I am right back to where I was when I first joined MR.... HOW on earth can you be Russian? You must be an ExPat and fooling all of us!!  :fool" You are too good! 
Yes, the  last piano falling on Orpahange for the Musically Gifted was great. 
Daughter just loved the line that Lisa gave during the test when she could not figure out the answer to question # 1 so she went to question #2 and question #2 said, "Using what you learned in question #1..."   
Okay, so about the movie Footloose, it was the first movie that had all the songs *written for the movie* instead of using songs that were already out in the public. So in that sense it was a BIG thing and BIG risk. It was also released just when MTV got started so they pushed the songs and videos on MTV whiched made kids want to go see the movie because they had seen the videos out on MTV!  A number of GREAT songs came off the soundtrack from the movie:
Holding Out For A Hero, Bonnie Tyler
Let's Hear It For The Boy, Deniece Williams
and of course Footloose by Kenny Loggins 
Here is the video for Footloose
[video:3jbc067x]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwBbMXYDsXw[/video:3jbc067x] 
And here is the "famous" Warehouse Dance Scene 
[video:3jbc067x]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX38dNneIiU[/video:3jbc067x]     ::  Last thing you need to know about Footloose and it's main star Kevin Bacon is *"Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon"*  as this is refered to a great deal. People will ask you "What is your Bacon Number?"    ::  Have you heard of this?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon 
The trivia game Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon is based on the concept of the small world phenomenon and rests on the assumption that any actor can be linked through his or her film roles to actor Kevin Bacon.The game requires a group of players to try to connect any film actor in history to Kevin Bacon as quickly as possible and in as few links as possible. In 2007, Bacon started a charitable organization named http://www.sixdegrees.org/
The Bacon number of an actor or actress is the number of degrees of separation he or she has from Bacon, as defined by the game.

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## E-learner

*rockzmom*
I wonder if many Americans ever heard of this old British TV show that is being spoofed here (this is the fragment that is relevant, after 40 seconds anyway): http://nerdnirvana.org/2007/08/18/the-s ... ace-shoes/
Do you recognize it?

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## gRomoZeka

> *rockzmom*
> I wonder if many Americans ever heard of this old British TV show that is being spoofed here (this is the fragment that is relevant, after 40 seconds anyway): http://nerdnirvana.org/2007/08/18/the-s ... ace-shoes/
> Do you recognize it?

  ::  I googled it, and the article about these series says "Visionary and disturbing, "xxx" remains one of the most talked about series in the history of TV". I'm surprised YOU watched it, though. Was it on TV?

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by E-learner  *rockzmom*
> I wonder if many Americans ever heard of this old British TV show that is being spoofed here (this is the fragment that is relevant, after 40 seconds anyway): http://nerdnirvana.org/2007/08/18/the-s ... ace-shoes/
> Do you recognize it?    I googled it, and the article about these series says "Visionary and disturbing, "xxx" remains one of the most talked about series in the history of TV". I'm surprised YOU watched it, though. Was it on TV?

 Okay I am a bit muddled here.   *E-leraner*, I could not get the video to come up, are you talking about the TV show *The Prisoner*? I found this other link... http://www.tubearoo.com/articles/894..._Prisoner.html 
If so,* gRomoZeka*, I did not see were that was an XXX rated show.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061287/ 
Also, once again Pinky and The Brain did a spoof of it!
"Pinky and the Brain" Brainwashed: Part 1: Brain Brain Go Away - The land of hats is a parody of the British TV show entitled The Prisoner. The character ‘straw boater’ is based on the main character number 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOHSP...eature=related   *E-Learner,* as for your question, no I would not have picked up on that one. I was more of "*The Avengers*" person. I loved that series! Especially with Diana Rigg as Emma Peel! I think somewhere in my house I have an autographed photo of her!! And the opening and theme music was way cool too!
[video:1d839hfa]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYKMnTADbxY[/video:1d839hfa]

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## gRomoZeka

> If so,* gRomoZeka*, I did not see were that was an XXX rated show.

 Oh, I was talking about "The Prisoner", I just used "xxx" as a substitute to the title (didn't want to spoil Elearners' game by giving an answer away ) )))

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  If so,* gRomoZeka*, I did not see were that was an XXX rated show.   Oh, I was talking about "The Prisoner", I just used "xxx" as a substitute to the title (didn't want to spoil Elearners' game by giving an answer away ) )))

 Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Silly me!!!!  ::   I do take everything WAY to seriously! Ya know, you did say you were surprised if he had watch that show and all.... so I put two and two together and got 3!   ::

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## E-learner

> I'm surprised YOU watched it, though.

 I don't know why you are surprised, although I'm surprised myself that I managed to watch it through.  :: 
It was insane, yet strangely appealing, and I watched further and further hoping to make some sense of it, but this was not to happen.
It reminded me of Zakharov's "Munchhausen", but of course the latter was not nearly that crazy.   

> Was it on TV?

 I didn't watch it on TV.

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## rockzmom

CoffeeCup (and others....) 
I know... still no film review for you and I do apologize...   ::   Maybe someone can post a review for me? A ghost reviewer? Any takers?  ::   
E-Learner--- you could try another puzzle and maybe this time I could play along properly?  
Or someone else could put up a spoof they know of *OR* did not understand the meaning of?     

> ........In the mean time I saw this very timely article on CNN today and thought it fit right in with part of our most recent thread here... top film quotes...   *You talkin' to me? Film quotes stir passion* 
> Some movies, like "The Godfather," "Casablanca" and "Gone With the Wind," seem infinitely quotable. 
> Others can produce a single unforgettable line that will define that film forever: "You can't handle the truth" from "A Few Good Men" and "I see dead people" from "The Sixth Sense." 
> A number of Hollywood masterpieces can infuse a single word with meaning: Think "plastics" from "The Graduate" and "Rosebud" from "Citizen Kane."  *http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movi...tes/index.html*

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## E-learner

*rockzmom*
I know you are not into slapstick comedy, but I feel that your research  ::  into Russian cinema will not be complete without this. It's only 10 minutes, not a word of language, an utter slapstiсk from the 60's. At least one of the actors you've already seen. Do you recognize him?  *Пес Барбос и необычный кросс* 
[video:1dz37mdg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKb0Nh9nWh4[/video:1dz37mdg]

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## rockzmom

> *rockzmom*
> I know you are not into slapstick comedy, but I feel that your research  into Russian cinema will not be complete without this. It's only 10 minutes, not a word of language, an utter slapstiсk from the 60's. At least one of the actors you've already seen. Do you recognize him?  *Пес Барбос и необычный кросс*  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKb0Nh9nWh4

 E-learner, 
Bless you... While it is true, slapstick is towards the lower end of my list of favorites, this was just what I needed to watch tonight! I have had a very hard few weeks and was in need of something silly and funny. Okay, I still thought about all the reasons the scenes should not work like, why didn't they just put out the fuse and why were the trees so nicely cut down like hurdles for them to jump over and of course I knew that darn dog was going to jump into the water after the stick... but ya know what I DID NOT CARE TONIGHT!!!! 
I laughed right along until the very end!!! 
THANK YOU so very much for this E-learner. As the expression goes... You have done your good deed for the month!  ::    *Now, for your question*... I must admit, you have stumped me yet again and while yes, I could Google away and learn the answer within about 2 seconds, I will not and be fair and see if someone else might want to guess.   ::

----------


## CoffeeCup

> CoffeeCup (and others....)

 To put a review, there should be a starting point: what kind of the review you like: for movies you have seen or not. 
So, I try to refer to "Kin Dza Dza" which one you have already seen.
The grotesque point of view to our ordinary life: waking up in the morning, going to work, working, supermarketing, returning to home, talking to wife, talking to children to do their homework, sleeping. The way of life becomes automatic (or zombified) process. Even when the zombified person faced an alien world (which inhabitants are also in the same zombified mood) he resolved the arisen problems without any remarkable changes in the mood. 
What I like in this movie is the background impression of the mood imposed to the spectator. The background impression, I am trying to describe, is something like if one removed the dialogs and maybe removed the main characters, the movie still would impose the mood on to the spectator. So, the background views, music, the way camera moved: altogether becomes one more main character. 
For example, two movies which provide such a background impression (each the movie provides its own type of the mood imposed by the background impression) are "In Bruges" and "Lost in Translation". The last one is brilliant in the performance of the background impression. The main character (Bill Murray) in some scenes merges with the background (scenes in the elevator cabin and when he participates in Scarlett Johansson friends meeting). 
Returning to Russian movies the good example in this connection is "Брат" ("Brother"). This movie was already recommended above. Take in to account that "Brother 2" is absolutely different in idea and performance. The movie "Brother" was really the cult movie in Russia. The level of cult was so high as to be compared with that of the "Godfather". Returning to the background impression, here it is mainly performed by the music of the cult Russian rock band "Nautilus" (in some scenes one can see the leader of this band). This music saturates the entire movie.
The famous quote from the movie "В чем сила, Брат?" ("To what the strength belongs, Brother?")

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## E-learner

Guess the line.
The line is actually given at the end of the clip, but I removed the sound. Are you any good at lip-reading?   ::  
[video:3gfpuqwp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cs6CfWa6Bw[/video:3gfpuqwp]

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## translationsnmru

Speaking about quotes, I have just found out that "Owls are not what they seem" is from Twin Peaks! (I always thought it was from Harry Potter   ::   ). Actually, I've only watched a couple episodes from Twin Peaks back when it was aired in Russia for the first time, and never watched any reruns. Tells you about how much I watch TV  :: .

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## rockzmom

[quote="E-learner"]Guess the line.
The line is actually given at the end of the clip, but I removed the sound. Are you any good at lip-reading?   ::   
E-learner... 
No, however... in my book Valentina can read lips! Where is she when I need her? It appears to be very short whatever it is.
So, I am batting 0-3 here. Not looking so good. 
What is the answer pray tell?

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## rockzmom

> To put a review, there should be a starting point: what kind of the review you like: for movies you have seen or not.

 Coffee Cup, 
To answer your question, any review is fine and I think helpful to people like me (well maybe I should clarify and say, people who actually are actively learning Russian… I am the odd person out on this forum) as well as good for discussion and friendly debate.  
I know that based upon some of the suggestions and reviews from this thread, I have watched movies and started reading books (hopefully will finish and read more) that I ordinarily NEVER would have seen or read simply because I was not aware of them or they did not seem interesting to me until someone else showed them to me through their eyes. 
Additionally, having a different point of view on a film that I have seen is often helpful in explaining details and nuances that I (and others) would never get because we were not raised with the history to understand these subtleties.  Just as we have seen on this thread with the American TV shows or movies that "you" might not understand the connections or references. 
So, your review of Kin Dza Dza was very fascinating to me and well detailed. You did a fantastic job of it!   ::   
I welcome you and others to post small or long reviews. Ask questions about American films, books or TV shows from me or others here if you have questions (even though E-learner is making me look bad right now).  *AND once again*, while I know it might be difficult for some of you to write in English, please just do your best at it and don’t let it stop you from participating on this thread.

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## E-learner

The line is "Let's get outta here." Yesterday, I heard it again.  ::  
Ok, the next one. Guess what movie this is a reference to: 
[video:25k2kut1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KPiGZFS4Yg[/video:25k2kut1]

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## E-learner

The answer is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcp ... re=related 
It might easily be the most impressive ending among the movies I have ever seen.

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## rockzmom

> The answer is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcp ... re=related 
> It might easily be the most impressive ending among the movies I have ever seen.

 Dr. Strangelove, yet another movie I have never seen! 
Okay, here is one for you and this one should be easy for you as you seem to be very good at this game...what film is being recreated in this "Tonight, Tonight - The Smashing Pumpkins" music video? BTW, it was one of the first films I had to watch in film school! 
[video:3ejwyw09]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsZYqaSc4cU&feature=related[/video:3ejwyw09]

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## E-learner

> Dr. Strangelove, yet another movie I have never seen!

 One more reference then, just in case.  ::  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oezFM5foB7U   

> this one should be easy for you as you seem to be very good at this game...

 Come on, I've seen only a handful of American movies, and part of them were British.  :: 
This is my grudge against The Simpsons, that it is so heavily loaded with allusions. You never know where they are just being not funny and where it is a clever, or not so clever as the case may be, reference to something. 
Anyway, your link didn't work for me ("This video is not available in your country"), but I think *this* is about the same, isn't it?
No, I don’t think I’ve seen that. Something Jules Vernian?

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## rockzmom

> Come on, I've seen only a handful of American movies, and part of them were British. 
> No, I don’t think I’ve seen that. Something Jules Vernian?

 Ahhh, E-learner...  see... you are very good at this game ... you get partial credit because it was based upon two books, one of them being... "From the Earth to the Moon" by Jules Verne. 
The film is neither American nor British... it is FRENCH!    

> Anyway, your link didn't work for me ("This video is not available in your country"), but I think this is about the same, isn't it?

 Yes, your Spanish subtitled version was the same. Why they blocked a YouTube video is beyond me! 
Here is the answer then.... 
"Le voyage dans la lune" or "A Trip to the Moon" by Georges Melies from 1902! (just think my Nana was one year old when this came out and she is still alive!)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Trip_to_the_Moon 
[video:38r41tez]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI9OaZHxk64[/video:38r41tez]

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## E-learner

*rockzmom*
I must admit that although I most certainly haven't watched that film in it's entirety, I have no less certainly seen fragments of it.
You see, Jules Verne is a very well known author around here and, although I can't say what it is like now,  there used to be enough of films and cartoons on TV, based on his works. 
There were also “popular science” films and programmes about science, history of science, technology and so on, and they were illustrated, occasionally, by fragments of films. “A Trip to the Moon” might make its way into one of those. Or into something about history of cinema or literature. 
By the tone of your message, I can only guess that Jules Verne isn’t that well known in America. Wikipedia seems to confirm that my conjecture:
“… his reputation in English-speaking countries suffered for a long time as a result of poor translation.”
“… even today Verne's work has not been fully rehabilitated in the English-speaking world.”  
And now for something, though not completely, different.  :: 
The first American film that registered in my memory - I was a teenager then and watched it at a soviet cinema - happened to be about interplanetary trip – to Mars. Only there was no trip, there was a scene of Mars staged in a studio and translated by TV. Someone got suspicious, began to dig for information and got hunted by FBI or CIA or somebody.
The reason I remembered it was that I was shocked by the notion that Americans were allowed to make such “subversive” films. I must have been an uncharacteristically politically aware child.  :: 
I’m just curious, *rockzmom*, have you watched that film?
Here's a trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf8kdmw7vQc

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## rockzmom

> *rockzmom*
> I must admit that although I most certainly haven't watched that film in [s:2q2yukgy]it&#39;s[/s:2q2yukgy] its entirety, I have no less certainly seen fragments of it.
> You see, Jules Verne is a very well known author around here and, although I can't say what it is like now,  there used to be enough of films and cartoons on TV, based on his works. 
> There were also “popular science” films and programmes about science, history of science, technology and so on, and they were illustrated, occasionally, by fragments of films. “A Trip to the Moon” might make its way into one of those. Or into something about history of cinema or literature. 
> By the tone of your message, I can only guess that Jules Verne isn’t that well known in America. Wikipedia seems to confirm that my conjecture:
> “… his reputation in English-speaking countries suffered for a long time as a result of poor translation.”
> “… even today Verne's work has not been fully rehabilitated in the English-speaking world.”

 For me, I would have to agree; however, I was not much of a reader growing up. I am making up for lost time in that area as well as my Russian Films!  I can tell you that my younger daughter read a book over the summer, The Invention of Hugo Cabret, by Brian Selznick and this book too had photos from “A Trip to the Moon” and when I saw it I immediately remembered them from the movie and showed her the film on You Tube. Later in the book, the author does weave the film into the story line. 
And a side note, Hubby (remember, he grew up in El Salvador) knows of Jules Verne and books; yet, never read them. So maybe he is just more popular in other countries, even Spanish speaking ones!   

> I’m just curious, *rockzmom*, have you watched that film?
> Here's a trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf8kdmw7vQc

 YES! Finally, and I knew your answer before I even finished reading your question!   ::   
Capricorn One, had of course huge film stars, well... one we should not classify as an actor... O.J. Simpson!! I remember this film very well for the concept that OMG could we have really not gone to the moon? Is it all fake? I would have been around 14 when it came out; yet I think I saw it on TV and not in the theater. But it is interesting to hear what you thought about us Americans making such a film.  I think here it just fed into the "Two Gunman on the grassy knoll" theory as well. 
Then in film school, one of the teams made a short film similar to Capricorn One with the idea that the astronaut ejected from his capsule and then had to get back to base before dark and all the along the way were of course obstacles. In the end he failed to get back to base before dark and then... they pulled back to reveal that it was actually a video game being played and it said "Game Over" on the screen.  It was very well done short project and clever for its time which would have been in early 1980s.

----------


## CoffeeCup

> Coffecup.. just so you know, we are not alone in not seeing the Godfather!

 I have done it! I have seen the "Godfather". 
The time has come, and today I can't say that the movie have impressed me much. May be there is some influence of expectation of most valuable movie in the world. If I were not expecting too much the movie would probably impress me more. I seen the Godfather by TV and the movie was repeated on the next day at early time. I caught the begin of the movie and found out that seeing the movie becomes easier and more over the funny acceptance of the famous quotes have appeared (may be due to eliminated expectation). 
The movie was made as a video copy of the bestseller. The way to retelling the book was not focused to an action or mood delivery. It seems that only the dialogs were chosen to be shown to spectators. Even the scene with the horse head in the producers bad looks like a dialog between the producer and the head cut (in the Hamlet style). As seen today, this "dialogs only" approach was accepted by Mikhalkov in most of his movies. 
As to the story line I have not find out that the Michael (Al Pacino – the Don Corleone son) was really giving up the family business in the begin of the story as was noted in all summaries. What I seen was that Michael was trying to assure himself in this, while deeply in his mind he was enjoyed it. This mind tearing makes him more violent Don than his father was. I have not read the book, so I don't know if this character was supposed to be like this or it was the performance of Al Pacino.

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## Shurick

Today I happened to watch this video and remembered about movie "Guest from the Future" (Гостья из будущего). I have very powerful fellings about it (Its almost make me cry), and I want to ask you some questions.
Do you feel something special while watching this story or not? Maybe want to share something?
What you think about Kir Bulychev (Кир Булычёв) books about Alice Selezneva (Алиса Селезнёва)?
For me It's not just an old science fiction movie, it's much more. It's kind of history, it's a remembering of my youth, 80th.
[video:2nso1jb8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWSxev7eJvs[/video:2nso1jb8]
ps. One of the most famous phrase from this movie is: "Алиса, миелофон у меня!"/"Alice, I've got a mielofon!"

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## Оля

> It_ almost makes me cry), and I want to ask you some questions.
> Do you feel something special while watching this story or not? Maybe you want to share something?
> What do you think about Kir Bulychev (Кир Булычёв) books about Alice Selezneva (Алиса Селезнёва)?
> For me it's not just an old science fiction movie, it's much more. It's kind of history, it's a remembering of my youth, 80th. 
> ps. One of the most famous phrases from this movie is: "Алиса, миелофон у меня!"/"Alice, I've got a mielophone!"

 I love this movie, too!   ::

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## gRomoZeka

> ps. One of the most famous phrases from this movie is: "Алиса, миелофон у меня!"/"Alice, I've got a mielophone!"

 True.   ::  
The others are "I was focused so much on taking the run, that I forgot to jump" and "Boy, do you want "Jiguly" (_a soviet automobile_)? Imagine, you are such a young boy, and already have "Jiguly" (-> intergalactic villains were trying to make the hero to betray Alica).   ::    

> I love this movie, too!

 The song from this movie is one of the children movies "classics", and sertainly is one of the most inspiring and lyrical. I almost feel like crying when I listen to it even now. 
I never was a big fan of the movie, though. Probably because every time I was watching it my Grandma was sitting nearby repeating "What an ugly boy! OMG, what an ugly boy!". It really breaks the mood.   ::

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## Оля

> Probably because every time I was watching it my Grandma was sitting nearby repeating "What an ugly boy! OMG, what an ugly boy!".

 Ha ha ha   ::  
Did she mean Коля Герасимов, the main hero? I don't think he's ugly... His appearance is not standard, but interesting.   ::

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## rockzmom

::  There are not are not enough adjectives to describe how I feel right now! I am crushed, heartbroken; an arrow has pierced my heart.... 
  GalaBiR from You Tube has been suspended and all of his movies have been removed due to terms of use violation! Luckily, I downloaded several of them to watch at later date; however, some of them I had not! 
  I just went there to look to see if he might have "Guest from the Future" with English subtitles (as you all had glowingly fond memories of it and IMDb had good reviews as well) and found out this horrific news! My primary source of Russian movies is now gone! Whatever shall I do?? 
  It is indeed a sad day in this household and for this thread. It matches the rainy cold weather we have outside.  
So, Shurick & gRomoZeka.. you can cry with me as I listen to the song that I have no idea what the words mean yet is very lovely... a big group hug and cry.  ::

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## Оля

(Edited.)
Okay, never mind.

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## azure

Hi! I agree with all russians here, because the films you have mentioned are my favourite too! 
But: All these film are classical russian films. Everyone here, in Russia and other USSR republics, knows these films and uses frases from it. 
As I've understood you're writing a book for your daughter(I'm also a teenager) so some teenagers here, in Russia, have never seen these films ( it depends on parents). And all teenagers watch new films (absolutely all of them are from USA and Europe) 
I mean, that russian cinematograph contains of many other films, not only Soviet. So russian people watch absolutely all Usa films + some creations of russian directors ( Michalkov and Bondarchuk are  most advertised). I think you should watch some new russian films, if you want you Dimitriy to be smart

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## rockzmom

> Hi! I agree with all of the Russians here, because the films you have mentioned are my favourite too! 
> But: All these film are classical russian films. Everyone here, in Russia and other USSR republics, knows these films and uses phrases from [s:1pf13926]it[/s:1pf13926]them. 
> As I[s:1pf13926]&#39;ve understood[/s:1pf13926] understand, you're writing a book for your daughter (I'm also a teenager) so some teenagers here, in Russia, have never seen these films (it depends on their parents). And all teenagers watch new films (absolutely all of them are from USA and Europe).
> I mean, that Russian cinematography contains (I would say ... is comprised of) [s:1pf13926]of[/s:1pf13926] many other films, not only Soviet. So Russian people watch absolutely all USA films + some creations of Russian directors ( Michalkov and Bondarchuk are  most advertised). I think you should watch some new Russian films, if you want your  Dimitriy to be smart.

 azure!   
Hello and greetings! A new voice to this thread... and a young one!!! I did watch Volkodav (Wolfhound), Волкодав, and the Watch series. What others would you recommend to me either Russian or non-Russian?  
What is popular with the 22- and under age group?  
Also, if you would not mind telling me (you can send me a PM if you like), please let me know, are you male or female? This helps me to better understand your responses. 
Thank you so very much for speaking up and giving your opinions! It means a great deal to me. 
rockzmom!

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## gRomoZeka

> Did she mean Коля Герасимов, the main hero? I don't think he's ugly... His appearance is not standard, but interesting.

 Yes.   ::   I didn't find him appealing when I was a kid either (I liked Vasechkin   :: ), but I understand what you mean. He had an interesting face, an individuality, unlike many modern commercially attractive "clones".
PS. Сочувствую с Ютуб! Очень обидно.  ::

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## azure

Thanks for your correction( typo..)
I'm Ann ( I think. you'll understand my sex)

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## rockzmom

ok..a little switch for a moment.  
CNN came out today with the "Top 10 movie car chase scenes"  http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayof...ses/index.html 
Now, I must admit, I LOVE car chase scenes that are WELL done. Too many retakes that leave tire tread marks and it spoils it for me. I also am one of the few females I know who can drive a stick shift car (I know overseas almost everyone drives stick, yet over here, almost no one does (male or female)... in major cities it is a pain with all the stop and go traffic). 
The number one car chase scene I HAD NOT seen the movie or the clip, yet I found it on You Tube. I must say, I would not have wanted to drive the streets of San Francisco like that, nor would I EVER want to drive them with a stick! I would be too afraid of popping the clutch or rolling down the hill backwards trying to start after stopping at a light!!! 
So here without further ado, is Steve McQueen in "Bullitt" (196 ::  
[video:2krhp4rv]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMc2RdFuOxI[/video:2krhp4rv]

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## Winifred

What a wonderful thread, rockzmom!  I want to watch some Russian movies, and here are lots of them! 
Какая прекрасная тема, rockzmom! Я хочу посмотреть какие-нибудь русские фильмы, и тут их много!!  
And, just a wonderful review of Vanity Fair, Leof. Wonderful. 
И очень замечательная рецензия о Vanity Fair, Лeоф. Замечательнo.

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## Оля

> What a wonderful thread, rockzmom!  I want to watch some Russian movies, and here are lots of them! 
> [s:3nipjt1h]Какой удивительный "thread,"[/s:3nipjt1h] rockzmom! Какая прекрасная тема, rockzmom! 
> Я хочу [s:3nipjt1h]смотреть кино русские, и вот много кино!![/s:3nipjt1h] Я хочу посмотреть какие-нибудь русские фильмы, и(а) тут их много! 
> (Someone please tell me how to say "thread" in Russian, thanks! I cannot find it anywhere. Unless it's "нитка?") Нитка is bad. 
> And, just a wonderful review of Vanity Fair, Leof. Wonderful. 
> [s:3nipjt1h]N[/s:3nipjt1h] И [s:3nipjt1h]очень[/s:3nipjt1h] замечательная рецензия о Vanity Fair, Леоф. Замечательнo.

 Do you say "_very wonderful_" in English? We don't say "_очень замечательный_".

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## E-learner

Speaking of chases.
Once, I read a short story. It was about one peculiar chase, kind of. It truly impressed me.
Many years later I came across a movie based on this story. It wasn't just as good but it was still engaging enough.
Guess if you can.  ::  The director is a pillar of American moviemaking. 
[video:17vunn0t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0LzUL8sloI[/video:17vunn0t]

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## rockzmom

> Speaking of chases.
> Once, I read a short story. It was about one peculiar chase, kind of. It truly impressed me.
> Many years later I came across a movie based on this story. It wasn't just as good but it was still engaging enough.
> Guess if you can.  The director is a pillar of American moviemaking.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0LzUL8sloI

 Yes! E-Learner, another one I knew from the first frame of the clip. Well sort of knew, I knew it was Dennis Weaver and Steven Spielberg was the director. It took me a little longer to remember the title which I felt stupid taking sooooo long to remember considering what the entire film is about! duh... a DUEL! 
Did you ever hear of or see a 1971 film that has become sort of a cult film (I actually own a copy) called *Two-Lane Blacktop*? 
The Driver: James Taylor (yes, the singer)
The Mechanic: Dennis Wilson (yes, of the Beach Boys - young and cute still)
G.T.O: Warren Oates   

> Because it's the purest American road movie ever.
> Because it's like a drive-in movie directed by a French New Wave director.
> Because the only thing that can get between a boy and his car obsession is a girl, and Laurie Bird perfectly messes up the oneness between the Driver, the Mechanic, and their car.
> Because Dennis Wilson gives the greatest performance ever by a driver.
> Because James Taylor seems like a refugee from a Robert Bresson movie.
> Because there was once a god who walked the Earth named Warren Oates.
> Because there's a continuing controversy over who is the actual lead in this movie. There are different camps. Some say it's the '55 Chevy, some say it's the GTO.

 Here is the trailer from the movie
[video:2u65vr4m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKcIGPQST9s[/video:2u65vr4m]

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## rockzmom

> What a wonderful thread, rockzmom!  I want to watch some Russian movies, and here are lots of them!

 Why thank you, Winifred! 
This thread would NOT be what it is without *all* of the help and responses from all of the participants. I am VERY behind on my Russian movie watching and must get back to it pronto! Until then, E-learner and CoffeeCup have been helping out. So this is a *GROUP* effort.  
So, if you have the chance to watch any... please, please, please feel free to post a review or two! 
I LOVE films/movies, TV, books and so forth... so this thread has morphed into the place to post any sort of comments or questions about not just Russian but American or other art as well.  
I have been "blessed" to have the members of this forum answer my questions, make suggestions and even post their own reviews and questions to me.  ::   
So welcome to the thread Winifred! 
a very sappy (slang excessively sentimental), rockzmom.

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## Оля

> Two soldiers from opposing sides find refuge with a Finnish woman

 More precisely, she is Sami, although she lives in Finnland. That's why she doesn't speak Finnish. ...Mmmm, I really love this movie.  ::  
By the way, Ville Haapasalo, the Finnich actor who played in this movie, speaks _soooooo good_ Russian, as if he was a native! When he gives an interview, you almost never hear the accent. I admire his Russian! And still, when he was about 20 and came to SPt, he could not speak a word of Russian.

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## studyr

I watch "3rd Rock from the Sun" now. It's much funnier in English than translated on Russian as I previously watched it on TV.

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## rockzmom

> I watch "3rd Rock from the Sun" now. It's much funnier in English than translated on Russian as I previously watched it on TV.

 Ahhhhh... then you can't be all that bad and you have my permission to stay in your cave and not come out until you have watched all 6 seasons! 
This was a GREAT show and even though I am most certainly a female, I must say... "Sally" was SMOKIN' HOT!!! 
Watched it every week! Anything you don't get, just ask away!! 
Okay... so below is a season 3 highlight and I selected this one as it has a couple of scenes in it that we have already discussed on this thread. 
At the 1:34 Mark... Is a spoof of "Footloose" as "Dick" was the father/preacher from "Footloose"
At the 2:30 Mark... Is a spoof of the "STEEEELLLLLLAAAAAAA" line from "A Street Car Named Desire"
Now, at the 2:43 Mark, you may not understand this one so let me explain it..It is a spoof on Reese's Peanut Butter Cups and their really old commercials. I only found ONE on you tube!
[video:i7kb1ey0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfGQmotCIN0[/video:i7kb1ey0] 
So, now that you know these little things, you can watch the highlights and enjoy! EDIT  ***as video box does not work, here is the link*** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLr5fLtyj-k

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## rockzmom

> Rockzmom, I am looking forward for your corrections, in order to rewrite my review in a more understandable way.

 No problem. Now that you have explained what it was you were trying to say, it makes it easier. It will take me a little bit and I don't have the time just this second. But I will get back to it .  ::     

> P.S. I really believe that this movie is worth  [s:34eu1ufx]to[/s:34eu1ufx] seeing in [s:34eu1ufx]the[/s:34eu1ufx] good quality and on a [s:34eu1ufx]the[/s:34eu1ufx] full screen size.

 I did check my library system, and they do not have a copy of it. So I will have to do some searching for a better copy and then the subtitles for it.

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## rockzmom

> Rockzmom, I can see Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, but season 3 highlight isn't available. I pasted the link into the address box but it wouldn't do too.

 Studyr... maybe the Internet connection in your cave is bad??  ::   
No, I tried it too, and it would not work for me either... here is the link and I tested it and it seems to be working.  Let me know if you still cannot watch... and thanks for links to Solaris and the subtitles. I will test them out soon! 
3rd Rock From The Sun Season 3 Highlight#1
Posted by YouTube Memeber: CarseyWerner  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLr5fLtyj-k

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## rockzmom

3rd Rock From The Sun... Update... yet again....  ::   
I know this is now WAY to complicated; however, anyone who still wants to see this video I have provided TWO, count them TWO choices: 
Choice A: If you have a free or paid for Mega Video account, log into Mega first and then use this link and you "should" be able to watch it there, no downloading. http://www.megavideo.com/?v=FQ4VFUXA 
Choice B: You can go to Media Fire and download the video, File Size: 34.35 MB, here is the link:  http://www.mediafire.com/?nmnwqntm5v2 
I hope after all of this, it is worth it!!!  ::

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## studyr

rockzmom, thanks! Now I see what you mean. Other scenes are very funny too. I'd like to register as STELLA at some forum with this avatar (just made it from your video), but the nickname seems to me somewhat female  ::

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## rockzmom

Coffee Cup: 
Here is my second attempt at my corrections and understanding exactly what you are trying to express in your review. Of course it would help if I had had a chance to see the movie!!! So, if I have messed it up again, just make notations, and we can try again.  ::    A [s:298gyrrb]V[/s:298gyrrb]very impressive psychological movie [s:298gyrrb]turning[/s:298gyrrb] attempting to turn the viewer [s:298gyrrb]to pass[/s:298gyrrb] from thinking as a human to  thinking past that and thinking of the human mind as being under [s:298gyrrb]the[/s:298gyrrb] a microscope. 
What if the extraterrestrial mind (“IT”) exists? Maybe “IT” [s:298gyrrb]even[/s:298gyrrb] doesn't need to be shaped into some form of life? Would we, humans and our entire universe, being so primitive, [s:298gyrrb]to[/s:298gyrrb] be even interested[s:298gyrrb]ing[/s:298gyrrb] in learning about "IT"? [s:298gyrrb]to it?[/s:298gyrrb] What could “IT” [s:298gyrrb]It can it take[/s:298gyrrb] learn, if anything from us? What can we [s:298gyrrb]can[/s:298gyrrb] show or possibly teach to “IT”?   Would we be able to show “IT” [s:298gyrrb]The A[/s:298gyrrb]all the knowledge of [s:298gyrrb]the[/s:298gyrrb] mankind and our universe or would we only be able to [s:298gyrrb]we can only[/s:298gyrrb] expose our simple minded society and [s:298gyrrb]spacemen (to our ?)[/s:298gyrrb] personality? Would the [s:298gyrrb]personality of the[/s:298gyrrb] encounter be of any interest at all to [s:298gyrrb]interesting to[/s:298gyrrb] “IT”? 
Would [s:298gyrrb]the[/s:298gyrrb] our personality [s:298gyrrb]would[/s:298gyrrb] be[s:298gyrrb]ing[/s:298gyrrb] interesting enough for “IT” to want to become [s:298gyrrb]in be[/s:298gyrrb] acquainted with us or would “IT” see us more like a cute toy to tease or torment? [s:298gyrrb]want to be played on with?[/s:298gyrrb]

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## alexB

> I have done it! I have seen the "Godfather".

 For many years people of the former USSR had been aware of the fabulous, magnificent, almost mythical “Godfather” movie, enjoyed by millions around the globe but not the people of the former USSR themselves. Ideological barriers prevented its infiltration to the bereft of sin territory of a socialist state and contaminating pure virtuous minds of its inhabitants. The only tangible unforbidden thing about the movie was the music from it. It was very much liked, it was beautiful indeed, but many were curious about the movie itself and when the barriers collapsed with perestroika coming in, the first thing in the morning, liberated masses tossing away their shackles rushed to watch “Godfather”. It makes me wonder, "where were those people at the time, who claim they have not seen the movie?"   ::

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## rockzmom

> rockzmom, thanks! Now I see what you mean. Other scenes are very funny too. I'd like to register as STELLA at some forum with this avatar (just made it from your video), but the nickname seems to me somewhat female

 I am glad that you liked it. I hope others enjoyed it as well. There have been 28 views on MEGA, so I do not know if that means other MR users have watched it under Mega or just people have stumbled acrossed it as I named it a rather odd name on Mega. 
As for using it as an Avatar... I have a couple of thoughts on that one... 
I think it would depend upon the forum and how many people would understand the meaning behind it. Did you understand it before I explained it on this thread? Had you heard of Street Car Named Desire? Have you read the play or seen the movie? 
With all that said... I still think you would be considered a GUY as it is a GUY pouring beer all over himself and screaming a girl's name! So I think you would be safe.  
And ya know... I have an photo of my daughter that was taken of her from one of her jobs as my avatar and my nick is RockzMom and everyone here thought I was a GUY  ::   
So whatever... if you like it, use it!

----------


## rockzmom

Okay all you multilingual persons or polyglots!   
Here is (what I hope you can watch, I tested the link from withing this site so half the problem from last time is gone) a fan made clip of 3rd Rock shows where they used different languages within the show (not dubbed, the characters actually spoke the lines within the script). 
Order of languages:
French
Spanish
Russian
Greek
Chinese
Turkish
"Turkeys"
Thai
British
Italian 
[video:39hl62iu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgdqtmY6EE&NR=1[/video:39hl62iu]

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## CoffeeCup

Solyaris ("Солярис", 1972) review. The final cut. Thanks to *Rockzmom*.   

> A very impressive psychological movie attempting to turn the viewer from thinking as a human to thinking past that and thinking of the human mind as being under a microscope. 
> What if the extraterrestrial mind ("IT") exists? 
> Maybe "IT" doesn't need to be shaped into some form of life? 
> Would we, humans, being so primitive, be even worthy of "IT's" attention? 
> What could "IT" learn, if anything, from us? What can we show or possibly teach to "IT"? 
> Would we be able to show "IT" all the knowledge of mankind or would we only be able to expose our personality? 
> If "IT" would be curious of our personality, would our personality be interesting enough for "IT" to want to become acquainted with us or would "IT" see us more like a cute toy?

 Rockzmom, The idea is mainly focused on the "IT" and the personality of the human who meets "IT", so the society and the universe are out of the line. The clarifications "to tease or torment" after "a cute toy" are removed, as you noticed somewhere above Russians really like the questions to be left unanswered.

----------


## Basil77

> Okay all you multilingual persons or polyglots!   
> Here is (what I hope you can watch, I tested the link from withing this site so half the problem from last time is gone) a fan made clip of 3rd Rock shows where they used different languages within the show (not dubbed, the characters actually spoke the lines within the script).

----------


## studyr

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  Okay all you multilingual persons or polyglots!   
> Here is (what I hope you can watch, I tested the link from withing this site so half the problem from last time is gone) a fan made clip of 3rd Rock shows where they used different languages within the show (not dubbed, the characters actually spoke the lines within the script).

 A proxy doesn't help too  ::

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## E-learner

Yesterday I was watching the film "Brazil" and suddenly there was this scene there
[video:16uco316]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEVHqgF__lw[/video:16uco316]
which obviously is a parody of the certain scene from the certain Russian film. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euG1y0KtP_Q

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## studyr

> which obviously is a parody of the certain scene from the certain Russian film.

 This is the parody I like more:
[video:17vf56n1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaGLZEdYDGU[/video:17vf56n1]   

> I think it would depend upon the forum and how many people would understand the meaning behind it.

 I use to register at various forums, no only Russian ones.   

> Did you understand it before I explained it on this thread? Had you heard of Street Car Named Desire? Have you read the play or seen the movie?

 Tennessee Williams was well known writer in Soviet Union for his plays "A Streetcar Named Desire" and "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof". There was a radio show named "The theatre at the microphone" which I liked to listen very much. So I had listened both plays about 25 years ago. I hate Blanche. Finally she'd got to asylum, that's for her. My point of view is completely the same with Stanley's. In fact, Stanley is the same with me. Yesterday, I was at work, but my daughter played flash games and µTorrent was on, so at my surprise I found the movie download complete this morning. At the end of the movie, Stella takes her baby and says that she will never be back to Stanley. Williams had never wrote such a nonsense.

----------


## rockzmom

Basil77 & studyr (and everyone else).... I just do not understand these silly rules.  
Okay, once again... two choices: 
Choice A: If you have a free or paid for Mega Video account, log into Mega first and then use this link and you "should" be able to watch it there, no downloading: http://www.megavideo.com/?v=JG1VMOH7 
Choice B: You can go to Media Fire and download the video, File Size: 84.03MB, here is the link:  http://www.mediafire.com/?zqzttmimxz1 
Order of languages: (and make certain if you watch this one you comment on their language abilities!!!)
French
Spanish
Russian
Greek
Chinese
Turkish
"Turkeys"
Thai
British
Italian 
But wait... there's MORE... and hopefully I did this all correctly.  
I have also posted the FIRST episode or pilot. It took me a while to find this one and I did so for my girls so they could understand how the whole series started. I wasn't certain how many of you might have actually seen it.Tommy's lines in this are hysterical! Now my girls know for certain what teenage boys are thinking!!!   ::   
Choice A: If you have a free or paid for Mega Video account, log into Mega first and then use this link and you "should" be able to watch it there, no downloading: http://www.megavideo.com/?v=H460BLJ0 
Choice B: You can go to Media Fire and download "*3*" videos (as the size was too large for one video). 
Part 1 File Size: 77.05, here is the link: http://www.mediafire.com/?uznjkiyizmn
Part 2 File Size: 66.01, here is the link: http://www.mediafire.com/?nntzymdzrew
Part 3 File Size: 7.53, here is the link: http://www.mediafire.com/?iomnmny4djw

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## CoffeeCup

> And in Russian movies, how are Americans portrayed?

 Being a child there was one subject (among many others) which fascinated all the children: the cowboy character. The cowboy was a guy who wore cowboy boots with spurs, cowboy leather vest along with the leather hat. And, of course, the cowboy had a pair of cowboy colts. Most of time cowboys spent in a saloon sipping whiskey and having philosophical conversations with each other. But when a problem met the cowboy, he immediately became sober and shot three or four dozen of enemies merely while the sweat droplet falls from his face to his boot. But the world crushed when I'd started to learn English and found out that a cowboy is not that magnificent guy but only a little boy who takes care about cows. 
There is a good portrait of what Russians think the cowboys are.
The easy-line comedy "A Man from Boulevard des Capucines" ("Человек с бульвара Капуцинов", " Chelovek s bulvara Kaputsinov" – 1987, by Alla Surikova) shows us a probable way of the cinema entering to the wild west. 
After the movie had been released the one word quote "inflation" filled the air. Twenty years has come but this quote is still valuable. Only in the last year the using of this quote was interchanged with "crisis". I hope the crisis not staying for a long and the "inflation" returns.

----------


## CoffeeCup

> American movies and television portray Russians (almost always) as mobsters, *spies* or thugs?  Why never as the heroes? 
> ...
> the same stereotypes as not "nice" people.

 There is the movie shot in 1987. I still can't understand how this movie was able to appear on the Earth. The American movie where the main character was a Russian spy who fought with Americans from Pentagon and won ( !!!    ::  ) at the end of the movie. More over the character was pictured as the heroe ( !!! ). 
Any guess ... ?
... 
"No way out" with Kevin Costner as the Russian spy in 1987.

----------


## iriroma

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  American movies and television portray Russians (almost always) as mobsters, *spies* or thugs?  Why never as the heroes? 
> ...
> the same stereotypes as not "nice" people.

 That's true! I agree with rockzmom! Yesterday I just watched another american movie about Russian bastards   ::  and... Italians (especially Sicilians) are most often mafiosi in american movies    ::

----------


## alexB

> I have also posted the FIRST episode or pilot. It took me a while to find this one and I did so for my girls so they could understand how the whole series started

 It turns out I saw a couple of the episodes several years ago but I had no clue those four were aliens and so their behavior looked weird.
I wouldn’t mind seeing the whole thing but I doubt I can find a version not spoiled by the Russian only sound track.  

> - This is a small office and you’re behaving like a big hose-monkey.
> - You’re not so bad yourself, woman.

 Funny, but what is the hose-monkey here? There is one definition in the Urban Dictionary  

> 1. 	hose monkey 
> 	Generally applies to men. 
> To be in the habit of continually playing with one's "hose" like a monkey... 
> Also applies to most types of useless or ineffective behavior. 
> See "wanker" 
> That guy is such a useless hose monkey.

  but I doubt it fits in here. Or does it?
In the multilingual part the Dr. Solomon’s Russian is relatively good whereas the kid’s one barely discernable.

----------


## studyr

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  I have also posted the FIRST episode or pilot. It took me a while to find this one and I did so for my girls so they could understand how the whole series started   It turns out I saw a couple of the episodes several years ago but I had no clue those four were aliens and so their behavior looked weird.
> I wouldn’t mind seeing the whole thing but I doubt I can find a version not spoiled by the Russian only sound track.

 I download it from here, but as it's 23.92 GB (25680108136 Bytes) I stopped all files and download just 3-4 simultaneously:

----------


## rockzmom

Coffee Cup, StudyR, E-learner and others... 
I know I owe you some responses and I once again apologize for not keeping up to date on this thread.   

> Solaris

 Coffee Cup and StudyR, I have successfully downloaded a nice copy of Solaris and subtitles (BTW, Studyr, the link you sent to me for the movie... I my security system would not let me open no matter how many hoops I went through telling it it was not a dangerous site   ::  ) and I hope to watch it soon.   

> which obviously is a parody of the certain scene from the certain Russian film.
> [quote:3nwumqvn]This is the parody I like more:

 [/quote:3nwumqvn]
E-learner, your clip and the other spoof clip from StudyR (with OJ Simpson, yet again) I don't recall this film, so you will have to educate me once again! Where did this first come from?

----------


## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  American movies and television portray Russians (almost always) as mobsters, *spies* or thugs?  Why never as the heroes? 
> ...
> the same stereotypes as not "nice" people.   There [s:h9tg2v67]is the[/s:h9tg2v67] was a movie shot in 1987[s:h9tg2v67].[/s:h9tg2v67] and I still can't understand how this movie was able to appear on [s:h9tg2v67]the[/s:h9tg2v67] this earth. [s:h9tg2v67]The[/s:h9tg2v67] It was an American movie, where the main character was a Russian spy who fought with Americans from the Pentagon and [s:h9tg2v67]won ( !!!    )[/s:h9tg2v67] at the end of the movie, he won!!! [s:h9tg2v67]More over[/s:h9tg2v67] Even more amazing,the Russian character was [s:h9tg2v67]pictured[/s:h9tg2v67] portrayed as the hero[s:h9tg2v67]e[/s:h9tg2v67] ( !!! ). 
> Any guesses ... ?
> ... 
> "No way out" with Kevin Costner as the Russian spy in 1987.

----------


## rockzmom

I mentioned earlier on this thread about how Russians are portrayed in American films and TV and some of you responded back. I also mentioned how one of my favorite TV shows right now “Life” and this season they have woven into the story line a Russian mob theme. Well… this past week the episode had some “interesting” little moments in it that I wanted to share with you. 
I have three clips. You just need to click on the links to watch, no downloading or anything. 
Clip one… your typical stereotype. Let me set it up for you. Roman Nevikov, (also note, this actor was born in California and raised in Washington State... how is his accent and mannerisms ?) is the “BAD” Russian Mob boss, yet, he *always* wears white. Detective, Charlie Crews (also note, in real life, this actor is from the UK and he is using an "American" accent for this role), is a police officer who was set up and went to prison for 12 years for a murder he did not commit, finally was proven innocent got a big settlement, yet went back to work so he could find out who the real killers were. Detective Dani Reese, is his partner.  http://s444.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=336db5af.flv 
Clip two, they are going to try and rescue Detective Reese. In this one there is a nice Russian song playing over the scene. Does anyone know this song? Can anyone give me an idea what the song is about?  http://s444.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=4f4e0c0d.flv 
Clip three, is a car scene also with Russian music, this time Rap. Is this a popular song? Anyone recognize it?  http://s444.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=5ee0d081.flv

----------


## CoffeeCup

> Clip one… your typical stereotype. Let me set it up for you. ... how is his accent and mannerisms ?)

 He pronounces words more precisely and doesn't mess or mesh the words with his tongue - that is obviously correct for most of non native speakers. But in all other points his accent is really wrong: the rolling "r" in "for" - this word is one of the words which are learned as the basis vocabulary and all the Russians pronounce it without the rolling "r"; Sound "t" in "anything" - most Russians pronounce "th" as "s". His English is too fluent to make such mistakes. But I don't know the story line maybe the character was not grow in Russia. Mannerisms are also non Russian (I really begin to believe that the character grew somewhere out of Russia). The mannerisms are more like when in some Russian movies young people are shown as trying to behave like Tupac.   

> Clip two, they are going to try and rescue Detective Reese. In this one there is a nice Russian song playing over the scene.

 Тату - "Зачем я ..." (Tatu - "For what I ...") Tatu is the very recognizable Ruassian group which consists of two girls. Tatu reached top-lists not only in Russia but also in Europe and Japan (There are not so many Russian bands which have such records). The song is about two persons who are in love to each other and were involved in some criminal story with drugs and some mobs are chasing them so these two persons are about to be killed.   

> Clip three, is a car scene also with Russian music, this time Rap. Is this a popular song? Anyone recognize it?

 Серега - "King Ring" (Serega - "Король Ринга") I have not mix the languages the original song title is English (King [of boxing] ring). Serega is also a well known singer in Russia (but maybe not outside Russia). Some times ago there was a TV show "King of boxing ring" where singers and actors and other popular people tried to be boxers. This song was released by Serega after his participating in this show.

----------


## E-learner

> which obviously is a parody of the certain scene from the certain Russian film.
> [quote:1r9gdfa0]This is the parody I like more:

 E-learner, your clip and the other spoof clip from StudyR (with OJ Simpson, yet again) I don't recall this film, so you will have to educate me once again! Where did this first come from?[/quote:1r9gdfa0]
You must have missed the link to this scene from the original film. Here is the whole film. Here is a Wikipedia article. 
It was mentioned often enough on Soviet TV that somebody somewhere named this film the greatest film of all time, but I don't remember the whole film ever being translated by TV. I haven't seen it, except for that particular scene, until now.

----------


## gRomoZeka

> Clip one… your typical stereotype. Let me set it up for you. Roman Nevikov, (also note, this actor was born in California and raised in Washington State... how is his accent and mannerisms ?) is the “BAD” Russian Mob boss, yet, he *always* wears white.

 Yes, his accent is a little off (99,9% of Russians who have an accent pronounce "th" as "s" and "z" - NOT as "t" and "d"). The mannerisms are more or less ok, but the image as a whole seems wrong. He doesn't look like a Russian mobster (at least he doesn't fit the _Russian_ stereotype for Russian mobster). He looks more like a Russian stereotype for a Latino druglord (slicked back black hair, white clothes, etc.). Real Russian thugs don't dress all in white. It's a bit girly to their taste.  ::   His appearance is also not typical (though. of course, it's not unbelievable) 
And... just don't laugh..   ::   Imho, the most non-Russian thing about his appearance is his nose.. Something in the bone structure.    ::

----------


## CoffeeCup

> Clip one… your typical stereotype. ... Roman Nevikov,... how is his accent and mannerisms ?

 To kill all possibilities that this guy is Russian - He pronounces his own Russian name with tremendous accent. People can have any accent for a non native language but using their own names they are speaking automatically in the mother tongue.  

> The mannerisms are more like when in some Russian movies young people are shown as trying to behave like Tupac.

  

> He looks more like a Russian stereotype for a Latino druglord

 Now I also vote for the "Latino druglord" stereotype as more convenient.

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## rockzmom

So what you all are saying is this guy can't even pronounce his own name correctly!  ::     

> And... just don't laugh..    Imho, the most non-Russian thing about his appearance is his nose.. Something in the bone structure.

 So, gRomoZeka, what type of nose should he have??? 
I just can't believe that in all of LA they could not find a REAL Russian actor for this role!!! But then again, they have a British actor playing an American for the lead!  ::

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## Lampada

> Heart of a Dog", (Собачье сердце, Sobachye serdtse), 1988 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_a_Dog

 Here it's in English:   http://lib.ru/BULGAKOW/dogheart_engl.txt

----------


## gRomoZeka

> The other things that surprised me were the use of names and how instead of Dr. Philipovich, he is always referred to as Philip Philipovich...

 "Phillipovich" is his patronymic, so combination Dr. Philiipovich is absolutely impossible.  ::  If anyone would like to use a honorific it should be Dr. Preobrazhensky (Dr. + his last name). But it would sound way too formal and it's not always appropriate (honorifics in Russian used more rarely than in English). First name + Patronymic is the most common respectful form of address (to your superior, to a stranger, to an older person, etc.)   

> ...and the mention of Isadora Duncan.

 Yes, it's funny how things work. I didn't know much about her either.  ::   All I knew about Isadora Duncan for a long long time was that she was a wife of a very famous Russian poet Sergei Yesenin. I didn't even know she was American, I thought she was French or something (like *all* dancers, you know  ::  ). 
Thank you for your long reviews. They are very interesting to read.   ::

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## Lynn

> I must confess, watching these films with subtitles, does make me regret that I do not understand your language, history or culture, as I know I am missing so much more than what I am actually seeing and understanding.

 I think it is time for you to begin learning Russian!    ::

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## rockzmom

> I think it is time for you to begin learning Russian!

 Wait… please… I have to catch my breath from laughing so hard! You are sooooooooo funny!   ::   
Let’s see, 17 years of marriage to a native Spanish speaker and I still don’t speak Spanish and you are suggesting that I start to learn Russian???? What you want WWIII to start in my household or just a divorce?  
As I have mentioned before, I am language handicapped and have enough troubles at time with my native English!  
God gave me one talent, a lovely speaking voice; however, that voice does not carry over to pronouncing any other languages besides English. That is why I have two daughters who are bi-lingual and I hope they will pick up other languages as well to help out their poor language challenged mom!

----------


## Lynn

> Originally Posted by Lynn  Can anyone tell me: is it necessary to watch Брат before watching Брат 2?   It's not absolutely necessary since the plot is not connected directly to the first part. The feeling of the movie is absolutely different too, as well as most of the characters. 
> But I think it still may be better to watch "Brat" at first because some important dynamics occur between brothers in the first part. And because it's better.

 I had a chance to watch Brat a few days ago and enjoyed it a lot. I have one question, though, because the language was sometimes too fast and idiomatic for me to follow (especially with the mob boss speaking in proverbs all the time), and I wonder if I missed something (or if it just got lost in cultural translation). Danila repeatedly says that he sat out the war as a clerk in headquarters, and yet is an impressive hit man on his first try. Was there something about the way that he said "I was just a clerk" that makes it clear that he's not telling the truth? After about half the movie I assumed he was lying about his combat experience, but should this have been clearer to me earlier? Or is it simply funny that he keeps insisting he wasn't in the war? (I thought it was a nice touch at the end when he said it rather humbly to the truck driver, shortly after killing a dozen people.)  
I had to like Danila, especially after he kept his promise not to hurt the hostage movie director, and he seemed like the one "moral" figure among all the characters. (Though as my roommate pointed out, Robin Hood didn't shoot people with a sawed-off shotgun.) All in all, it made me just a little apprehensive about traveling to St. Petersburg in the future, but I guess my home city of New York seems just as dangerous in movies...   ::

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## studyr

I had seen "South Park" yesterday   Alas, poor Finland  ::

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## iriroma

> Aesthetically, visually, I thought the film was very well shot and the character development well done. It seemed that there was a hierarchy within the film and everyone needed to stay within their station and the actors did a marvelous job of creating this division with mannerisms and expressions (remember for me, as I don’t understand Russian, verbal cues are harder for me. Yes I can hear the different tonal qualities; however as I am also trying to keep up with the subtitles, which I know are sometimes lacking in translation so I look to the actors motions to fill me in and I tend to tune out the voices) so an actor must really be at the top of their game to make it work for me.

 Rockzmom! Thanks a lot for the   ::  
Yes, it's a pity you cannot understand Russian language as the actors are really at their top in this movie.   

> ... How did a dog think and what did this dog think? I found his thoughts intriguing.  The line, “And the  cinema  is a woman's  one consolation in life.” hit home with me. This was not some; Disney type film with stupid comical lines, this film was going to have a message of sorts and I wanted to try to find out what it was.
> The idea that Sharik’s own personality did not overpower that of the human’s or that there was not more inner conflict between the two was also interesting and yet disappointing to me at the same time. Sharik was smart and had a keen mind and observed things about humans. He seemed to almost understand us better than we do. Yet, when he became human, he lost that part of him as the human, the “third striker” so to speak, took over and had more influence over Sharik’s personality.

 There's much to say about this novel, but in a few words I'd say that here Bulgakov with a dog's eyes tries to let us understand the Soviet culture and its disastrous results. The doctor, his assitant and the servants are shown as the victims of the communism. Philipp Philippovich decides to make an experiment, he tries to create a new Soviet man. He even tries to teach some good manners to Sharik. Unfortunately, the experiment fails and the dog returns being a dog. 
PS: would you correct my mistakes I made in English, please?

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## Lynn

> Rockzmom! Thanks a lot for the   
> Yes, it's a pity you cannot understand Russian [s:1560r2k2]language[/s:1560r2k2] as the actors are really at their [s:1560r2k2]top[/s:1560r2k2] best (or: at the top of their game)in this movie. 
> There's much  (more colloquial: a lot) to say about this novel, but in a few words I'd say that here Bulgakov [s:1560r2k2]with a[/s:1560r2k2] through the dog's eyes tries to [s:1560r2k2]let us understand the[/s:1560r2k2] show us Soviet culture and its disastrous results. The doctor, his assistant and the servants are shown as the victims of [s:1560r2k2]the[/s:1560r2k2] communism. Philipp Philippovich decides to [s:1560r2k2]make[/s:1560r2k2] run  (or: try) an experiment[s:1560r2k2],[/s:1560r2k2]: he tries to create a new Soviet man. He even tries to teach some good manners to Sharik. Unfortunately, the experiment fails and the dog returns to being a dog. 
> PS: would you correct my (or: the) mistakes I made in English, please?

 Hope that's helpful.   ::   (I'm new to this, so I also hope I did the formatting correctly!)

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## CoffeeCup

> Danila repeatedly says that he sat out the war as a clerk in headquarters, and yet is an impressive hit man on his first try. Was there something about the way that he said "I was just a clerk" that makes it clear that he's not telling the truth? After about half the movie I assumed he was lying about his combat experience, but should this have been clearer to me earlier? Or is it simply funny that he keeps insisting he wasn't in the war? (I thought it was a nice touch at the end when he said it rather humbly to the truck driver, shortly after killing a dozen people.)

 There was really nothing about the way that Danila said "I was just a clerk". Even more I suppose that there was not the attempt to hide his experience. The character had been involved in the war which broke the soul totally. The solders who have just finished a school were just put into the situation without any purposes, any support, just for living on their own. Later, talking about the war may recall these very hurting memories. So, telling that he was just a clerk allows him to keep some mental distance with those memories and stops further discussion about the war. 
But the way he said it in the last scene is really different. At the begin of the movie Danila was just a self-missed person while at the end he become a successful hit man. As closer to the end of the movie Danila found himself in being a hit man more comfortable than trying to find an ordinary way in the civil life. The hurting memories have gone back with respect to the current activity and the phrase "I was just a clerk" become just a mechanical answer.

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## rockzmom

American Films… 
Remember, as Sharik said, “and the cinema is a woman's one consolation in life.” 
There are many older movies, pre-1970, which I have always enjoyed and depending upon my mood, I can watch again and again and again. Each one has its own special or unique reason for me. I own most of these movies, that is how much I enjoy them and have “made” my children watch most of them as well. As you will note, a number of them are musicals.    ::  I would like to know from this group (the ones who have been here from the start in December, the newbies, and the ones who just surf but never comment):  Have you seen any of these films and if so, which ones and what did you think about them (surfers can just give thumbs up or thumbs down)? [/*:m:1d6eo6v8]About how old were you when you saw the film?[/*:m:1d6eo6v8]If you are not American (or if you are American, yet had no knowledge of the area or situation portrayed in the film, like in "To Kill A Mockingbird"), what perspective of American life did the film give to you, if any? [/*:m:1d6eo6v8]  ::   ::   ::   
I’ve added some clips of the films from YouTube and hopefully you will be able to access them!! 
So here they are in Alphabetical Order (just a few mind you!):  *Adam's Rib*, 1949 (starring Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam's_Rib watch trailer
This movie is on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...14679A616DDFE2  *An American in Paris*, 1951 (Starring Gene Kelly and Leslie Caron) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Amer...n_Paris_(film) watch clip  *Brigadoon*, 1954 (staring Gene Kelly, Van Johnson, and Cyd Charisse) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigadoon_(film)  watch clip  *Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid*, 1969 (starring Paul Newman and played by Robert Redford) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butch_Cass ... ndance_Kid  watch clip  *Chitty Chitty Bang Bang*, 1968 (starring Dick Van Dyke) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitty_Chi ... Bang_(film)  watch clip  *Desk Set*, 1957 (starring Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desk_Set  *Fantasia*, 1940  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasia_(film)  watch clip  *Hans Christian Anderson*, 1952 (staring Danny Kaye) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Ch...ndersen_(film) watch clip  *Harvey*, 1950 (staring James (“Jimmy”) Stewart) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_(film)  watch trailer
(This one is on youtube http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...B3564BDB9D51CD  *Lilies of the Field*, 1962 (staring Sidney Poitier) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilies_of_the_Field watch clip  *Mary Poppins*, 1964 (starring Julie Andrews and Dick Van Dyke) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Poppins_(film)  *Mr. Smith Goes to Washington*, (starring James Stewart and Jean Arthur) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Smi..._to_Washington  watch clip  *Patch of Blue*, 1965 (staring Sidney Poitier) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Patch_of_Blue   *Rear Window*, 1954 (staring James Stewart and Grace Kelly) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear_Window   *Sabrina*, 1954 (with Audrey Hepburn and Humphrey Bogart, not the remake with Harrison Ford) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabrina_(1954_film) 
(any guesses why my daughter is named Sabrina?)  *Seven Brides for Seven Brothers*, 1954 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_B...rothers_(film) watch clip
This movie is on youtube  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ2h9...x=0&playnext=1   *Singin' in the Rain*, 1952 (starring Gene Kelly, Donald O'Connor, and Debbie Reynolds) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singin'_in_the_Rain_(film)  watch clip  *The Sound of Music*, 1965 (staring Julie Andrews) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sound_of_Music_(film) 
(I first saw this on a large movie screen as a school class field trip when I was in 6th grade!)  *Splendor in the Grass*, 1961 (starring  Natalie Wood and Warren Beatty) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splendor_in_the_Grass 
The film's title is taken from a line of William Wordsworth's poem "Ode on Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood": 
What though the radiance which was once so bright 
Be now for ever taken from my sight, 
Though nothing can bring back the hour 
Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower; 
We will grieve not, rather find 
Strength in what remains behind..  *To Kill a Mockingbird*, 1962 (starring Gregory Peck) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Kill...ingbird_(film)

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## E-learner

*rockzmom*
1. I've seen only Rear Window.
I wasn't much impressed with it. Admittedly, it might be because I had already seen Russian version of it, which wasn't bad at all, and read the story itself.
2. I saw it a couple of years ago, so you can guess.
3. I don't remember anything particularly interesting about this movie.  
By the way, we have our own Mary Poppins. Here's some songs from it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JW3xBTuvVA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZWatePU ... re=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ79KQdwNjk

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## gRomoZeka

I must admit I have not seen many "old" American classics. I need to fix it! Your list is a good place to start.  ::  
Telling the truth I have not even seen "Casablanca". Being raised on Soviet war movies I'm used to think that a war (especially WW II) is blood, dirt, death, destruction, hunger and tears, not some foreigners prancing around in snow-white suits, eating in the restaurants and dreaming of some imaginary place (again, I haven't watched it, but that was an impression I've got from the extracts and snapshots I've seen   ::  ). So I feel a strange kind of aversion to it, though I fully intend to watch it... somewhen in the future.  
What about your list I watched only two movies - "Rear Window" (like 10 or 15 years ago, and.. isn't it British?), and "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" (even earlier). 
"Rear Window" I liked, maybe because I've read the original story, "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" left me mostly unmoved, I think. At least I hardly can remember anything from it. I'd like to rewatch it now.

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## E-learner

> "Rear Window" (like 10 or 15 years ago, and.. isn't it British?)

 Are you sure it wasn't the Soviet one? Was there a parrot in it?
I didn't know at the moment whose production it was but it felt like British  :: . 
Later I saw it in Ukranian. The parrot sounded hilarious.  ::

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## gRomoZeka

> Are you sure it wasn't the Soviet one?

 No, it was definitely a Hitchcock's film (but I checked imdb, it was filmed in the USA). Is there a Soviet version too?

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## E-learner

> Is there a Soviet version too?

 Yes, there is. http://www.kino-teatr.ru/kino/movie/sov/5399/annot/
It seems it hasn't even been released on DVD.

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## gRomoZeka

Ah, 1991 is approximately when I stopped watching Russian movies for a good 5-7 years. Most of this post-Perestroyka films were horrible and almost painful to watch. ))

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## rockzmom

Where to start???  

> *rockzmom*
> 1. I've seen only Rear Window.
> I wasn't much impressed with it. Admittedly, it might be because I had already seen Russian version of it, which wasn't bad at all, and read the story itself.

 When I was in film school I actually had a class "Fantasies, Dreams, and Nightmares: The Psychology of Films" where all you did was watch a film once a week and then stay for the lecture about the film. That was it. Just show up and you pretty much got an "A."  All of the films though were Alfred Hitchcock ones. I did not go to see The Birds or Psycho. Of all of his films, I enjoyed Rear Window and North by Northwest the most. Dial M for Murder was up there too.  
Thanks for the Mary Poppins links too!  ::     

> I must admit I have not seen many "old" American classics. I need to fix it! Your list is a good place to start.

 YES!! I tried to vary it a little so you can select a “happy” musical, a mystery, romance or drama.   

> Telling the truth I have not even seen "Casablanca". …So I feel a strange kind of aversion to it, though I fully intend to watch it... somewhen (sometime) in the future.

 Ah… gRomoZeka… it is a LOVE story…. Yes, it is also a commentary about war, any war; however, it is more about people and it has major character development and fantastic acting! You feel for the people in this film. You care not only for Rick, Ilsa and Victor… but about all the minor small “featured” characters. The young married couple who need money and want to start a life (will she sell herself for one night?) and the signer in Rick’s café who belts out with an undeniable passion, "La Marseillaise."  
It is also about the back dealings that go on in life in general… "Who do you trust in this world?" 
Visually, I find the film stunning, especially in black and white. It would not be the same film in color. You should look for a remastered copy when you finally decide to take the plunge and watch this one.   

> "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" left me mostly unmoved, I think. At least I hardly can remember anything from it. I'd like to rewatch it now.

 Butch is a fun movie. There is much humor (or humour) in it that “may” not translate well in Russian and depending upon your level of English when you watched it or if it was a dubbed or subtitled copy that you watched… that might have colored your enjoyment of the film.     

> Originally Posted by rockzmom        Originally Posted by Crocodile  However, read _To Kill a Mockingbird_ book first [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Kill_a_Mockingbird].   Crocodile, I just put that movie up on my thread as one of my favorites!!!     Yeah.. first time I read that book in Russian long time ago... Just to let you know that book was (and probably still is) read and loved in Russia.

 Now, I must admit, Crocodile’s comment came as a big shock to me.   ::   I have so much to “relearn.”

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## Matroskin Kot

> *Adam's Rib*, 1949 (starring Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn)
> 			
> 		  I've never seen it.  
> [quote:22s4578v]*An American in Paris*, 1951 (Starring Gene Kelly and Leslie Caron)

 I've never seen it.   

> *Brigadoon*, 1954 (staring Gene Kelly, Van Johnson, and Cyd Charisse)

 I've never seen it.   

> *Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid*, 1969 (starring Paul Newman and played by Robert Redford)

 7.5/10  Apart from the fact that it's a lot of fun to watch, those two actors are legendary.    

> *Chitty Chitty Bang Bang*, 1968 (starring Dick Van Dyke)

 Um, I haven't seen it since I was 10. I liked it well enough then, but I'm not much interested in seeing it now.    

> *Desk Set*, 1957 (starring Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn)

 I've never seen it.     

> *Fantasia*, 1940

 I saw some of it when I was a kid. I was bored to tears.    

> *Hans Christian Anderson*, 1952 (staring Danny Kaye)

 I don't recall having seen this one, but I like Danny Kaye a lot. I really enjoyed his version of 'Revizor'. (The Inspector General)    

> *Harvey*, 1950 (staring James (“Jimmy”) Stewart)

 I can watch this movie over and over and never get tired of it. Love it -- a true classic. Plus, it has one of my favorite movie quotes.    

> *Lilies of the Field*, 1962 (staring Sidney Poitier)

 I've never seen it. The only Sidney Poitier movie I know well is 'To Sir With Love", which really like.    

> *Mary Poppins*, 1964 (starring Julie Andrews and Dick Van Dyke)

 Julie Andrews as Mary Poppins is the girl of my dreams. Dick Van Dyke's awful Cockney accent almost ruins it for me, though. Except for him, it's "practically perfect".    

> *Mr. Smith Goes to Washington*, (starring James Stewart and Jean Arthur)

 Classic. A complete fantasy, of course, but a lovely film    

> *Patch of Blue*, 1965 (staring Sidney Poitier)

 See above.    

> *Rear Window*, 1954 (staring James Stewart and Grace Kelly)

 9.5/10  A brilliant film in just about every way. Jimmy Stewart is great, and I could spend a happy two hours watching Grace Kelly read a book. She's simply the most mesmerizingly beautiful woman ever filmed.    

> *Sabrina*, 1954 (with Audrey Hepburn and Humphrey Bogart, not the remake with Harrison Ford)

 I've never seen it.    

> *Seven Brides for Seven Brothers*, 1954

 I've never seen it.    

> *Singin' in the Rain*, 1952 (starring Gene Kelly, Donald O'Connor, and Debbie Reynolds)

 I think I've seen it, but I can't remember if I liked it or not.    

> *The Sound of Music*, 1965 (staring Julie Andrews)

 No opinion.    

> *Splendor in the Grass*, 1961 (starring  Natalie Wood and Warren Beatty)

 I've never seen it.    

> *To Kill a Mockingbird*, 1962 (starring Gregory Peck)

 One of the most brilliant adaptations ever. Gregory Peck was amazing. 
[/quote:22s4578v]

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## rockzmom

> *Harvey*
> I can watch this movie over and over and never get tired of it. Love it -- a true classic. Plus, it has one of my favorite movie quotes.

 Matroskin Kot, you cannot tease like that! What is the quote?????????   

> The only Sidney Poitier movie I know well is 'To Sir With Love", which really like.

 I actually watched "To Sir" for the first time over the summer. It too was well done.    

> *Rear Window*
> 9.5/10  A brilliant film in just about every way. Jimmy Stewart is great, and I could spend a happy two hours watching Grace Kelly read a book. She's simply the most mesmerizingly beautiful woman ever filmed.

 Yes, I know... and now you look at how girls and young woman walk, dress, act, speak today... and then you watch Grace and you know why the world is going to h#ll in a handbasket. (I'll pick on the guys with their pants hanging down to their thighs in another reply)   ::  
Besides, the wardrobe selection for Grace in this movie was fantastic! Bring back some of those clasic styles, PLEASE!!!   

> *The Sound of Music*
> No opinion.

 ORLY????   

> *To Kill a Mockingbird*
> One of the most brilliant adaptations ever. Gregory Peck was amazing.

 Oh, I am so pleased that you agree! 
Now Matroskin Kot, have you read the book? If so, was it before or after you saw the movie?

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## rockzmom

OK... I thought I would swing this posting over here from the thread it came from because it is just too funny of a clip and goes along with our thread.   
I hope that you all can watch it. If not, let me know and I will download the clip and repost as I have been. 
Pcloadletter....thanks again!   ::     

> How to kill a mockingbird: 
> [video:283zyhc2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01CF6w9L754[/video:283zyhc2]

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## Matroskin Kot

> Originally Posted by Matroskin Kot  *Harvey*
> I can watch this movie over and over and never get tired of it. Love it -- a true classic. Plus, it has one of my favorite movie quotes.   Matroskin Kot, you cannot tease like that! What is the quote?????????

 Well, it's hard to appreciate it without the context of the film, but here it is: 
"Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this world, Elwood, you must be" - she always called me Elwood - "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. --Elwood P. Dowd   

> Now Matroskin Kot, have you read the book? If so, was it before or after you saw the movie?

 It was years ago, but I think I saw the film first.

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## rockzmom

> Well, it's hard to appreciate it without the context of the film, but here it is: 
> "Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this world, Elwood, you must be" - she always called me Elwood - "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. --Elwood P. Dowd

 Excellent idea to live by... 
Here is the scene... 
[video:2kmrkhxu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzOIhLJ1C-Y[/video:2kmrkhxu]

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## studyr

> I hope that you all can watch it. If not, let me know and I will download the clip and repost as I have been.

 I watched it OK and I have downloaded the movie itself and watch it too. Ha ha, that was a pretty kettle of fish to kill that mockingbird  ::   ::   ::

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## CoffeeCup

> There are many older movies, pre-1970, which I have always enjoyed and depending upon my mood

 I haven't seen either of these movies while I've heard a lot about "Butch Cassidy ...". 
I am interesting in your milestone marking "pre-1970". As for Russia I would certainly use two milestones 60's and 70's. The 1960 I would mark as the milestone where the characters stopped singing and dancing, and movies moved from being a window to a musicals stage and become a self-consistent art. Of course this is very rough division. Non-musicals were before and musicals were after but I think that the mainstream was changed somewhere about 1960. The 1970 probably can be the point when filming process stopped to be magic and become and instrument for artists. 
So, what about American milestones?

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## gRomoZeka

I wonder how did you devise these "milestones"??? It looks like you bended the facts a little for the sake of your "magic" theory.  ::  Please give us examples of the movies you kept in mind, if I'm mistaken, 
As for my opinion...
The most popular Soviet "musicles" (yes, everybody was singing and even dancing) were filmed in the late 70's. This decade was a "musical" era in the USSR. 
Just to name the few:
Truffaldino from Bergamo (Труффальдино из Бергамо), 1976, filmed in 1972 - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0281303/
The Dog in the Manger (Собака на сене), 1977 - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076732/
D'Artanyan and the Three Musketeers (Д’Артаньян и три мушкетёра), 1978 - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076998/
An Ordinary Miracle (Обыкновенное чудо), 1978 - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0186408/
About the Little Red Riding Hood (Про Красную Шапочку), 1977 - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076569/
Magicians (Чародеи), 1982 - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083730/ , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charodey
... and others... 
These films are "classics", I don't think they can fall under the category "musicals were after", because they ARE the main musical gems of Soviet cinema. I probably may agree that there were two waves of musicals (50's - "Mister X" and something else, and 70's - the films I listed).

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## Pcloadletter

I'm sure that Kin-dza-dza and White Sun of the Desert were already mentioned. The third one I'd recommend watching is Come and See by Klimov.  It is brutal, but truly unique in its genre I believe. I read live ammo was used for some scenes, don't know if it's true.

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## studyr

Come and see. It's a playlist all parts are playing one by one.

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## rockzmom

Once again, sorry for my absence from this thread but I was having a few bad days.   ::   ::   
My next question for this group… Besides our beloved MasterAdmin (who has an avatar of Totoro) is there anyone else who is a fan of Hayao Miyazaki? Have his films been translated into Russian? Are they popular in Russia? If so, is it only with children or do adults appreciate them as well? 
My daughters are very much in love with his work and last year, their school even had a class grade field trip to see Spirited Away. This past weekend we again watched Castle in the Sky. In addition to Kiki and Castle, we also have:  Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind
Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind - watch or download http://stagevu.com/video/boatvrbeszny  Princess Mononoke
Princess Mononoke - watch or download http://stagevu.com/video/szubrwyblidh  Howl's Moving Castle
Howl’s Moving Castle - watch or download http://stagevu.com/video/atvgrwaytvks  Spirited Away
Spirited Away - watch or download http://stagevu.com/video/ssasemyqhezc  Whisper of the Heart  The Cat Returns 
The newest one, Ponyo on the Cliff by the Sea, is slowly being released this year, August for U.S. and September for Russia. The English version voice over has a great line up including Cate Blanchett, Matt Damon, Tina Fey, Cloris Leachman, Liam Neeson, Lily Tomlin, and Betty White.

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## Waterlaz

mm... Well Japaniese animation in general is not that popular here. Of course there are people who watch it (called animeshniki here =).
And I've actually even been at the Japaniese Animation Festival  in Kiev about half a year ago.  
The movies you've listed are also quite popular among non-anime viewers.
I tried to watch "Howl's Moving Castle" but didn't like it. And heard a lot about other movies.

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## gRomoZeka

Hmm... I (on the contrary) think that anime and Japanese animation in general is VERY popular here, maybe even more than it deserves, he-he. At least two of my friends are crazy about it (keep in mind that my friends are mostly ppl over 25, the persentage is much bigger among teenagers). One of them is watching anime series non-stop. Grrr..  ::   
I'm not into anime myself. I really don't like the dominant anime drawing style (huge eyes, little sharp noses, feminine/unisex men, etc.), so I really can't watch it without getting irritated fast, but even I watched a few Miyazaki's films (Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle and one more, can't remember the title). Didn't like them too much (again, I'm not a not into anime), but Miyazaki is a true artist, that's for sure.  
By the way, I did enjoy one Japanese animated film - "Tekkon Kinkreet" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekkon_Kinkreet ). I liked the animation and the plot and the feeling it gave me. Did you watch it? What do you think of it?  

> Last year, their school even had a class grade field trip to see Spirited Away.

 Cool.  ::  We had the similar trip in my school when I was 7 or 8, they took us to watch "Barefoot Gen"/"Hadashi no Gen" (1983) ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barefoot_Gen ). It was a first anime I've seen in my life and I was VERY impressed. Also I was carefully watching for a stray planes for a while afterwards, in case they'll want to dump a nuclear bomb on us.  :"":

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## Оля

I don't think I've even seen any anime, and I don't exactly because of the drawing style - I really hate it.   ::

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## Waterlaz

Well... I've started watching anime about 2 years ago. And now I'm full. It was something new and special for me. 
Still my favorite ones are:
1) Neon Genesis Evangelion        - this one is.... well it changed me... probably for worse but it did  :fool" 
2) Furi Kuri                                       - this one is pretty "kind" but crazy %)
3) Excel Saga                                  - heh.. not that kind but much more crazy   ::  
4) The Melancholy Of Haruhi Sudzumia - still makes me smile when I think about it
5) Kachou Ouji
6) xxxHolic                                       - no it's not some adult movie =)) It's very mystic I would say. 
7) Lucky Star  ::  Azumanga Daiho 
7 and 8 are well. This is anime about schoolgirls. But the style is something undescribable. 
My first impression on Lucky Star was "no sane person would want to watch THAT!". Well the first episode moslty concentrated on the problem "which side of the cream tube is the proper one to start eating?" And yes there is no plot in general. The whole series are like that =))

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## Pcloadletter

> Once again, sorry for my absence from this thread. 
> My next question for this group… Besides our beloved MasterAdmin (who has an avatar of Totoro) is there anyone else who is a fan of Hayao Miyazaki? Have his films been translated into Russian? Are they popular in Russia? If so, is it only with children or do adults appreciate them as well?

 I can't speak for the whole nation, but I do enjoy his movies immensely, although I don't think I am a child anymore.  I look at myself in the mirror and I am almost positive I am an adult   ::  .  I wish more of his films were translated [in English] and available for "foreign" public, because he certainly is a very talented fella. 
Japanese animation used to be very popular in the USSR times, it was something different and refreshing, but I'm not sure about what happens now.

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## rockzmom

> By the way, I did enjoy one Japanese animated film - "Tekkon Kinkreet" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekkon_Kinkreet ). I liked the animation and the plot and the feeling it gave me. Did you watch it? What do you think of it?

 No, I have not, but I found it online and will watch it with the girls! http://stagevu.com/video/tlyuvjxeclnj   

> Well... I've started watching anime about 2 years ago. And now I'm full. It was something new and special for me. 
> Still my favorite ones are:
> 1) Neon Genesis Evangelion - this one is.... well it changed me... probably for worse but it did :fool" 
> 2) Furi Kuri - this one is pretty "kind" but crazy %)
> 3) Excel Saga - heh.. not that kind but much more crazy  
> 4) The Melancholy Of Haruhi Sudzumia - still makes me smile when I think about it
> 5) Kachou Ouji
> 6) xxxHolic - no it's not some adult movie =)) It's very mystic I would say. 
> 7) Lucky Star  Azumanga Daiho 
> ...

 Waterlaz, The xxxHolic, I looked on Wiki for that and it seems like something the girls would like. they are into all that wizards and fantasy stuff. I see that there are episodes and a movie, like this episode on Youtube  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx28WrsqhII and a movie - A Midsummer Night's Dream  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3_YNRSPW44
Do you have a suggestion as to where to start or which ones are better than others?
Of the other ones you listed, are any of them something you think my girls might like?   

> I can't speak for the whole nation, but I do enjoy his movies immensely, although I don't think I am a child anymore. I look at myself in the mirror and I am almost positive I am an adult  . I wish more of his films were translated [in English] and available for "foreign" public, because he certainly is a very talented fella.

 PC, I know what you mean about that nasty mirror!! I ignore mine as much as possible. 
 Of all the hupla that Michael Eisner caused at Disney, the best thing he did was to bring these movies to the English speaking world!  
I have found that most of his movies have a message within them... saving the forest, animals, peace and mankind, not judging people by the way the look or who they are, that even children can make a difference and change the minds of adults if they are passionate enough about an issue. Of course, life is not always so neatly tied up in a pretty ribbon and works out in a two hour movie; but, if children AND adults watch and then talk, as with the school group, then maybe a small change can happen.  
To me, an artist at heart, art has always been a form of communication. A way to get people to talk about things that they might not otherwise want or be able to talk about.  Topics that are taboo. A starting point, a jumping off point. A way to open the door without having to be the first to speak, because the art spoke first. One can speak about the art work first and then calmly work their way into the nitty gritty about the real problem and usually remain calmer because they can always circle back to the art work as a reference point as a means of support or even escape. 
Hayao Miyazaki does this well because he uses children as the main heroes, yet there is always at least one adult figure who helps them in their quest. The children see that there is something wrong with the world or society and want to fix it, yet they need a little help or guidence from another child and the adult to accomplish their goals. It is a team effort, no one can do it all by themselves. These are very valuable lessons for anyone to learn and at the same time, the story, music and graphics are enjoyable to watch and listen to. This is why I believe his movies have done so well while others in this genre may not have.

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## Matroskin Kot

> I'm not into anime myself. I really don't like the dominant anime drawing style (huge eyes, little sharp noses, feminine/unisex men, etc.), so I really can't watch it without getting irritated fast,

  

> I don't think I've even seen any anime, and I don't exactly because of the drawing style - I really hate it.

 There are a lot of things about anime that keep me from saying that I'm a fan, like the drawing style, and for a long time I simply refused to watch anime or even pay any attention to it. Then I saw Cowboy Bebop -- the series, not the movie, which came out later. Everything changed, and my eyes were opened -- there's good anime! Then I found Trigun. After that, Furi Kuri. 
I still don't like the drawing style in most anime, but I can tolerate it if the story, characters, and music are good enough, and I was surprised to find out how often they are good enough.

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## Waterlaz

> Waterlaz, The xxxHolic, I looked on Wiki for that and it seems like something the girls would like. they are into all that wizards and fantasy stuff.
> Do you have a suggestion as to where to start or which ones are better than others?

 I think you should just follow the plot starting with season1 (xxxHolic) and then season2 (xxxHolic:Kei).
There are 2 things I would like to point here though:
1) I don't know if the English dub is good or not. I've watched it subtitled.
2) At least wikipedia states that this is *seinen*. Which means that this one is a male oriented anime. 
I would say that it's pretty neitral. Well. I've never understood them with their classifications.   

> Of the other ones you listed, are any of them something you think my girls might like?

 There's the other one I didn't mention: The Girl Who Leapt Through Time
And I think this would be just right. I think you should start with this one. 
As for the others you could and probably should also try Azumanga Daioh.

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## gRomoZeka

> No, I have not, but I found it online and will watch it with the girls! http://stagevu.com/video/tlyuvjxeclnj

 Oh, just check it without you girls first. I'm not sure they will like it, and I'm not sure if you approve it. This is not Miyazaki, there's much more violence.

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## Pcloadletter

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  No, I have not, but I found it online and will watch it with the girls! http://stagevu.com/video/tlyuvjxeclnj   Oh, just check it without you girls first. I'm not sure they will like it, and I'm not sure if you approve it. This is not Miyazaki, there's much more violence.

 Some time ago I accidentally left a "South park" tape at my mom's.  She had grandchildren coming over and she wanted to show it to them, because it's a cartoon...   ::

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## rockzmom

> There's the other one I didn't mention: The Girl Who Leapt Through Time
> And I think this would be just right. I think you should start with this one.].

 I found this on Youtube  http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...me%20eng%20sub 
and here http://stagevu.com/video/hqmgvudkncjs 
We started watching the first 10-15 minutes of it and are enjoying very much! Great call on this movie  ::     

> As for the others you could and probably should also try Azumanga Daioh.

 We also found this one on YouTube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOh-0BGj7YE and Waterlaz... cough, cough... did you really honestly watch this series for longer than 5 minutes? We are laughing here and not for the right reasons "cooking is so fun!"  ::  I can just watch her IQ coming out her ears....   

> Some time ago I accidentally left a "South park" tape at my mom's. She had grandchildren coming over and she wanted to show it to them, because it's a cartoon...

 Daughter wants to go to YOUR mom's house!!! Great job dude!  ::  Her dad won't even let her watch Family Guy and she loves Stewie!  ::  She thinks he's so funny.

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## Waterlaz

> Waterlaz... cough, cough... did you really honestly watch this series for longer than 5 minutes?

 I honestly watched the WHOLE series.   ::  
In my defense: I took a look at your youtube link and the English dub there is just painfull to my ears. I've watched this one in Japanies with Russian subtitles. 
And you'll be surprised at how much people find this one enjoyable   ::  
PS don't watch Lucky Star then...   ::

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## Pcloadletter

> Rockzana wants to go to YOUR mom's house!!! Great job dude!  Her dad won't even let her watch Family Guy and she loves Stewie!  She thinks he's so funny.

 In her defense - she doesn't speak any English.   ::   Fortunately, some people who do were there to stop her. In my defense - hmmm, I don't have one   ::   
Stewie is da best!   ::

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## rockzmom

> Waterlaz... cough, cough... did you really honestly watch this series for longer than 5 minutes?
> 			
> 		  I honestly watched the WHOLE series.   
> In my defense: I took a look at your youtube link and the English dub there is just painfull to my ears. I've watched this one in Japanies with Russian subtitles. 
> And you'll be surprised at how much people find this one enjoyable   
> PS don't watch Lucky Star then...

 Waterlaz,
Thank you sooo much! After school today the first thing daughter said was, "Can we watch some more of The Girl Who Leapt Through Time?" And of course me being the mean mom that I am replied, "After you do your homework."   ::   
I also told her about your comment on Lucky Star and that of course makes her want to see it!!!  ::     

> Stewie is da best!

 PC, you can now stand tall and proud as having daughter's seal of approval of awesomeness, which I believe up until now, only Rtyom has only received!  
By any chance are you a fan of Married With Children?

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## studyr

I love comedies the funnier the more. And I definitely like Married With Children. But there’s nothing funny in an animé so I don’t like it. Although I like South Park despite its drawing style is animélike. BTW transparent background is preferable for a seal because the forum’s one is not white.

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## Basil77

> By any chance are you a fan of Married With Children?

 As for me, I have fun watching Married With Children. But I dislike it's vulgar russian remake: 
[video:118hrg7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmZKBIvqAVg[/video:118hrg7o]

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## iriroma

And I've enjoyed a lot the "Frankestein Junior" movie! I've seen it 3 times and it never stops making me laugh    ::   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKH2z32c ... re=related
[video:3652o7tl]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKH2z32cs4Q&feature=related[/video:3652o7tl]

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## rockzmom

> And I've enjoyed a lot the "Frankestein Junior" movie! I've seen it 3 times and it never stops making me laugh

 Ahhh, iriroma, it's Young Frankenstein! And you know what, I have NEVER seen that movie! We just watch your clip and are LAUGHING.    

> As for me, I have fun watching Married With Children. But I dislike it's vulgar russian remake:

 Kelly sounds like a MAN! Now of course I have NO clue what they are saying; but, I am laughing because they have all the pieces correct, even giving the dog money!!! I am also thinking how can it be MORE vulgar???   

> I love comedies the funnier the [s:3tpxrfj2]more[/s:3tpxrfj2] better. And I definitely like Married With Children.

 My favorite short two line scene-  

> Peggy - "Hi honey, did you miss me?
> Al - "With every bullet so far."

 Studyr, thanks for cleaning up the graphic for me! Graphics are NOT my forté! I am very good with programs...Word, Excel, Acrobat and I used to hold my own with DOS, SuperCalc, Lotus 1-2-3, CP/M, and even Pascal... but alas those days are long gone! Like my memory, sanity, waistline....  ::

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## rockzmom

Some Married with Children videos (sorry English only and no subtitles): 
This one I showed to my girls before they were taking an important exam. It is funny because poor Kelly's brain actualy gets FULL! I think we can ALL relate to Kelly in this episode!
Synopsis: Hoping to win enough money to buy a new TV, Al persuades Kelly to enter a game show quiz, and tries to teach her all he knows about sports. 
Kelly Knows Something Part1 http://www.megavideo.com/?v=TDYEWHPL 
Kelly Knows Something Part 2 http://www.megavideo.com/?v=565734IT 
This is just the first part of the episode that includes the line "With every bullet so far"
Synopsis: Al's vacation plans turn sour when the family get stuck in Chicago's holiday traffic. 
We'll Follow the Sun, Part 1 http://www.megavideo.com/?v=R7CDZFTW  
I also have the very first episode if anyone wants me to post that one, let me know.

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## Basil77

> Kelly sounds like a MAN! Now of course I have NO clue what they are saying; but, I am laughing because they have all the pieces correct, even giving the dog money!!! I am also thinking how can it be MORE vulgar???

 I don't know why, but when I watch original MWC and hear Al Bundy's jokes, these jokes seem suitable and funny and I am laughing, but the same jokes translated into Russian  performed by Gena Bukin sound vulgar.  ::   Despite this, I think that russian Al is not so bad, although the actor is too young for this role. The only star in russian version in my opinion is Sveta (Kelly) - she plays classical *блондинко* _(word play - in Russian nouns have gender (masculine, feminine and neutral), so блондин means blond guy, блондинка means blond girl, and блондинко is word play: "o" at the end implies neutral gender (for example noun "tree" has neutral gender) and we have in result something like: blonde-as-dumb-as-a-tree)_, better then Kelly imao. But the rest characters are just  rough fakes.  :: 
P.S I think Sveta's voice is rather sexy.  ::

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## studyr

> Now of course I have NO clue what they are saying...  I am also thinking how can it be MORE vulgar???

 50% of it's fun stuff is about sex:  

> Dasha (about a birthday gift):
>  - I want something new this year
> Gena:
>  - Should I learn a new pose?
> Dasha:
>  - Learn an old one first...
> ...Lena: 
>  - What if men had breasts?
> Gena:
> ...

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## rockzmom

> There's the other one I didn't mention: The Girl Who Leapt Through Time And I think this would be just right. I think you should start with this one.

 Waterlaz, 
We just finished watching The Girl Who Lept Through Time. Very good film and for those of you who don't like the usual feminine/unisex men or guys NOT looking like guys... the guys in this film DO look like guys!    
The movie has a very nice twist to it towards the end that I will NOT give away; however, I will say that we were both VERY disappointed with the fact you are all set for Chiaki to kiss Makoto, and what does he do???? As he leans in and you are drawn in waiting, all excited, on the edge of your seat, hoping beyond hope, for Makoto for this kiss to happen....he whispers something in her ear instead! Daughter's response to this was not very appropriate for a 13 year old   ::  Her other complaint about the film was the tears that Makoto sheds. She does not like the way that they are drawn. Way to big an unrealistic for her likes. 
Thanks again Waterlaz... good call on this one!!   ::   
Once again, if you would like to watch the movie with English subtitles, it is on Youtube  http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...me%20eng%20sub 
and here http://stagevu.com/video/hqmgvudkncjs

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## Waterlaz

> Thanks again Waterlaz... good call on this one!!

 You are welcome   ::   
Oh I've forgot to mention 2 more anime movies which I can call my favorite. They are suited for a more grown up audience though.
1) Genshiken 
It's about people who's life is mostly concentrated on watching anime, reading manga and hentai doujinshi(pornographic manga with characters from famous anime). 
2) Welcome to NHK! 
The main character here is a hikikomori. He lives on his parents' money. He doesn't work(22 yrs  old). He doesn't have any friends and comes out of his house only late at night when nobody can see him to buy some food. 
He believes that all his troubles come from NHK. Originaly it's a Japaniese Broadcasting Corporation but he is convinced that this is a secret corporation with the only goal to make everybody else a hikikomori. And he suspects everyone in being their agent.

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## Matroskin Kot

Since the thread has now been completely given over to discussion of anime, I'd just like to add that 'Death Note' is a very good series, as well.

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## mariale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peculiarit ... ional_Hunt 
"Peculiarities of National Hunt" (Russian: Особенности национальной охоты) 
It’s not my favorite but classic movie about tradition to drink alcohol (vodka) a lot or even more then a lot. Foreign guy Raivo from Finland write a book about russian hunt.  Friend invites him to real hunt. Raivo dreams about special ancient customs, but this hunt is just all-day-long non-stop randan with a lot of fun moments. Raivo doesn’t speak Russian at all. But after drinking he can communicate with non-speaking-finish forester without any problems.  It’s interesting  that actor Ville Haapasalo who was Raivo in this movie stayed in Russia forever.  
Phrases: 
1. «Ну вы, блин, даёте..» is really very popular phrase but impossible to translate.
We use this phrase as a comment if  somebody’s do something unreal, very strange. 
2. Рашн элефант из зэ бэст фрэнд финиш элефант... – «Russian elephant is the best friend of finish  elephant» 
2. «Тост на охоте должен быть коротким как выстрел. Иначе времени на отдых не останется»
«Hunt toast should be short as a shot. Otherwise it could be not enough time for repose”.
(in this case repose means time for drinking) 
3. A lot of short toasts  like
«Ну за встречу» -  «Well, to meeting» - Cheers
«Ну за дружбу» - «Well, to friendship» Cheers
«Ну, за искусство» - «Well, to Art» - Cheers

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## studyr

> Originally Posted by iriroma  And I've enjoyed a lot the "Frankestein Junior" movie! I've seen it 3 times and it never stops making me laugh      Ahhh, iriroma, it's Young Frankenstein! And you know what, I have NEVER seen that movie! I just watch your clip with Rockzana and we are LAUGHING. She wants me to get the movie ASAP!!!!

 ASAP   ::  I found it in a few seconds and after being downloading it for two days I have only a half of it.

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom        Originally Posted by iriroma  And I've enjoyed a lot the "Frankestein Junior" movie! I've seen it 3 times and it never stops making me laugh      Ahhh, iriroma, it's Young Frankenstein! And you know what, I have NEVER seen that movie! We just watch your clip and we are LAUGHING.    ASAP   I found it in a few seconds and after being downloading it for two days I have only a half of it.

 My library has a copy of it, so I have requested it and should have it in a couple of days!!! I might be able to watch it before you finish downloading it Studyr   ::

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## rockzmom

mariale,  
Welcome to the thread! I am so glad that you have joined Master Russian and decided to post a suggestion for a Russian movie! 
I found this clip on Youtube, yet sadly for me it is not in English or with English subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJhNiEXbB9M 
I hope you don't mind if I make some minor corrections to your English. If I have misunderstood your meaning, please let me know...   

> It’s not my favorite; but, it is a classic movie about the tradition to drink alcohol (vodka) a lot or even more [s:3dpk4hwb]then[/s:3dpk4hwb] than a lot. A [s:3dpk4hwb]F[/s:3dpk4hwb]foreign guy, Raivo, from Finland is writing [s:3dpk4hwb]write[/s:3dpk4hwb] a book about [s:3dpk4hwb]r[/s:3dpk4hwb]Russian hunts. A [s:3dpk4hwb]F[/s:3dpk4hwb]friend invites him to go on a real hunt. Raivo dreams about this special ancient custom[s:3dpk4hwb]s[/s:3dpk4hwb]; but, this hunt is just an all-day-long non-stop [s:3dpk4hwb]randan[/s:3dpk4hwb]random adventure (not certain if that is the word and expression you mean here) with a lot of funny moments. Also, it’s important to note, that Raivo, doesn’t speak any Russian at all; [s:3dpk4hwb]. B[/s:3dpk4hwb]but, after drinking he can communicate with non[s:3dpk4hwb]-speaking-[/s:3dpk4hwb][s:3dpk4hwb]finish[/s:3dpk4hwb] Finnish speaking, Forester, without any problems. It’s interesting that the actor, Ville Haapasalo, who [s:3dpk4hwb]was[/s:3dpk4hwb] portrayed Raivo in this movie, stayed in Russia forever after making this movie.  
> Phrases: 
> 1. «Ну вы, блин, даёте..» is really very popular phrase but impossible to translate.
> We use this phrase as a comment if somebody’s doing something unreal, very strange. 
> 2. Рашн элефант из зэ бэст фрэнд финиш элефант... – «Russian elephant is the best friend of [s:3dpk4hwb]finish[/s:3dpk4hwb] Finnish elephant»

 So, mariale, if I understand your summary correctly, Raivo does not speak Russian and Forester does not speak Finnish; yet, once Raivo and Forester get drunk, communication is no problem for them. The language of intoxication is universal.   ::

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## studyr

Peculiarities of the National Hunting torrent, subtitles.

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## Полуношник

> It’s interesting  that actor Ville Haapasalo who was Raivo in this movie stayed in Russia forever.

 According to wikipedia, he is currently resides in Helsinki, Finland. There is another piece of information that may be interesting for local foreigners: "Although he is now fluent in Russian, he is still not familiar with Russian grammar."

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## Оля

> Originally Posted by mariale   It’s interesting  that actor Ville Haapasalo who was Raivo in this movie stayed in Russia forever.    According to wikipedia, he is currently resides in Helsinki, Finland. There is another piece of information that may be interesting for local foreigners: "Although he is now fluent in Russian, he is still not familiar with Russian grammar."

 His Russian is just wonderful. No accent. Only very rarely, in some words.
And I believe he almost lives in Russia, or, at least, he visits it very often and has here many friends. And since he all the time is being shot in Russian movies, it rightfully can be said that he "stayed in Russia forever".   ::

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## Полуношник

[quote=Оля] 

> Originally Posted by mariale   It’s interesting  that actor Ville Haapasalo who was Raivo in this movie stayed in Russia forever.    According to wikipedia, he is currently resides in Helsinki, Finland. There is another piece of information that may be interesting for local foreigners: "Although he is now fluent in Russian, he is still not familiar with Russian grammar."

 His Russian is just wonderful. No accent. Only very rarely, in some words.[/quote:3kmmmt21]
Well, it could be a new advise for "Getting started": take part in a cult Russian movie and in a couple of sequels.   ::  
He studied at St. Petersburg Academy of Theatrical Art according to the very same wikipedia article. It can explain his excellent Russian.

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## Оля

> He studied at St. Petersburg Academy of Theatrical Art according to the very same wikipedia article. It can explain his excellent Russian.

 Yes, he did. But before that he didn't know any word in Russian.
I knew a French girl who finished Shukin Drama School in Moscow, and yet, after 4 years of studying she had an accent. But... maybe she was not that good in drinking vodka with her Russian classmates.   ::

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## rockzmom

[quote=Оля] 

> He studied at St. Petersburg Academy of Theatrical Art according to the very same wikipedia article. It can explain his excellent Russian.

 Yes, he did. But before that he didn't know any word in Russian.
I knew a French girl who finished Shukin Drama School in Moscow, and yet, after 4 years of studying she had an accent. But... maybe she was not that good in drinking vodka with her Russian classmates.   :: [/quote:2hqhmzzq] 
So it's settled. If I want my girls to have the perfect Russian accent, they need to get hired for a film over there and/or attend either the St. Petersburg Academy of Theatrical Art OR The Moscow Art Theater!   
Okay all you would be casting agents and directors... if you are in need of two very adorable award winning sisters with valid passports and an ear for languages (unlike their poor mother), send me a PM!!  ::

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## mariale

rockzmom 
Thanks a lot for your corrections.
I like your point about  

> “the language of intoxication is universal”.

 I had got word  «randan» from Google translator when typed «попойка» (popoi’ka). It also gave me «drunk» and  «buster». 
And I think your character Dmitri could uses russian word «blin» sometimes. Although  this word is impolite it’s very popular in informal language.

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## rockzmom

I normally speak about my older daughter on this forum.  
Today, the younger daughter and her entire 6th grade class are headed out on a school field trip to see the 1917 silent film "Poor Little Rich Girl" staring Mary Pickford. The event is being sponsored by the Mary Pickford Foundation and celebrates the 100th anniversary of Pickford’s first appearance as an actress on screen in May of 1909. 
Younger daughter was selected to appear in a video about her classmates learning specially designed lessons in film history, Mary Pickford’s legacy, and the emotional elements of musical scoring.  
Mary Pickford, known around the world as “America’s Sweetheart,” was the first star of motion pictures, and for much of her screen career, from 1909-33, was considered to be the most famous woman in the world. In addition, she co-founded United Artists, The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, and the Motion Picture Relief Fund, an organization to help out-of-work and retired film workers.  
The Poor Little Rich Girl, directed by Maurice Tourneur, became Mary Pickford’s biggest hit of the decade. The silent film tells the story of Gwendolyn, the lonely 11-year-old daughter of wealthy, distracted parents, who is cared for by a succession of disinterested servants. Gwen’s rebellious efforts to find playmates, live the life of a normal child, and regain the love of her parents lead to a series of humorous episodes. When an accidental over-medication places Gwen’s life in peril, however, her parents realize they must change their lifestyle in order to give proper attention to what is truly important to their happiness—their daughter.  
The film was unique because Pickford, who at the time was 25 years old, plays a girl of 11. Various photographic tricks were used to help the actress, who was just five feet tall, appear even smaller. Subsequently, Mary Pickford became most famous for her portrayals of children in several films.  
Here is the film on YouTube WITH A DIFFERENT SOUNDTRACK 
part 1 of 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj6FMlG3FTE
part 2 of 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzemC0SOBI
part 3 of 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOPrP7nnHOg
part 4 of 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdRMuoX3LxI
part 5 of 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzZ5xd1wEr0
part 6 of 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BmLxRuWBrk
part 7 of 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgPSphgAXZk

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## gRomoZeka

Can anyone see it?
I got "Wrong video ID" message (the links seem all right   ::  ).

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## rockzmom

> Can anyone see it?
> I got "Wrong video ID" message (the links seem all right   ).

 
gRomoZeka, try the direct links now. I re-cut and pasted the links again and did not try any fancy stuff. They should work...  ::

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## Waterlaz

Speaking of silent movies I can't hold myself to mention the 1929 An Andalusian Dog by Luis Bunuel and Salvador Dali. It's still a very enjoyable movie for me   ::  . Though the eye cutting scene just freaks me out   ::

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## Оля

> Though the eye cutting scene just freaks me out

 I recall I found it beautiful.

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## rockzmom

*RUSSIAN MOVIE REVIEW*  *Railway Station for Two* (Вокзал для двоих, Vokzal dlya dvoikh), 1982 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Railway_Station_for_Two 
Small clip (in Russian only): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psXVc7vB2WQ http://www.memocast.com/mediadetails.aspx?id=170597 part 1 http://www.memocast.com/mediadetails.aspx?id=170537 part 2  *U.S. Reviews*: http://moviecritic2000.blogspot.com/...n-for-two.html + Watchable 
So, this movie was sent to me as a lovely present and I must admit I was ever so pleased to have received it. I knew nothing about it AT ALL. I had not read the American review that said it was “…hard to understand why the film was such a huge success and broke all box office records in Russia.” 
The subtitles were missing in a few places and I must admit, I did not realize that I was watching a flashback until WELL into the film! But on the good side of that, I was just as surprised as Ryabinin when he was in the little cabin. 
Now, if ever there was a Russian “chick flick” this would be it! I could happily watch this film with my half pint or half gallon of ice cream and snuggle up in bed with this movie at any time. Yes, of course, some of the scenes are predicable and I did not need the missing subtitles to tell me what was being said or even what was going to happen next. The fact that he paid for their dinner by playing the piano was simply brilliant! The quick shot of the man in the bus station and then him pick pocketing Ryabinin later on, you knew would happen; yet still was just enough that it was believable. Now, her keeping the food in the plates, in her handbag and Ryabinin (or us the audience) not hearing the dishes rattle during all that time or her trying to sleep on them and not break them???? That is a little hard to accept...but I will, as it was cute when they shared the meal. 
I also liked the little one liners back and forth between them when they took little jabs at eachother:
Vera with shampoos in her hands and Ryabinin asks her: "Are you going to put that into the soup, too?"
Vera, saying “Now watch me get my 1.25 rubles back.” 
Also, as I have worked in restaurants before, I enjoyed tremendously watching her order for the two of them as customers, making certain that the good oil is used and the alcohol is not watered down and so on and so forth. 
Now, I know you Russians will flog me for even questioning this, but at one point I did wonder... just briefly (I had a momentary lapse of non-chickness), if Ryabinin might have actually been driving the car that night. If he might have told Vera that his wife had been driving because he was too ashamed and did not want her to think ill of him. I know, blasphemy for me to think such thought! You will have to think of a suitable punishment for me. 
This was a real treat for me and I highly recommend it for any female. 
And for you guys who want to watch it but can’t admit it, just think… put it on for your girl and watch it with her and you will score major points with her! And if you don’t want to watch it, put it on anyway and make those bonus points with her!

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## Оля

Thanks, rockzmom, for your review. Although I think I'll understand it better when I re-read it several times  ::  
Now, I only didn't quite understand what did you mean by "missing subtitles". Well, okay, I'm admitting in public that it was me who gave you a link for the subtitles and who suggested you watch this movie.  ::  I also can admit that the subtitles can be bad and contain mistakes; but I don't understand why you found them "missing". I think I can swear that those subtitles to which I gave you a link were complete, and the only thing that was not translated there were announcements through the loudspeaker at the railway station - I think they could only draw spectator's attention away from the main scenes.

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## rockzmom

> Now, I only didn't quite understand what did you mean by "missing subtitles".

 There were just a few quick scenes, here and there; however, the one I recall right away and was the longest scene after he sold the mellons and he is pushing Vera, there are no subtitles at all for that entire scene. I had to make up my own little dialogue for what they were say as they went down the street. Since it was a cute scene and pretty easy to imagine what they would be saying, it was not so hard to think of things.   ::   
Of course, you know... the entire problem would be solved IF I WOULD JUST LEARN RUSSIAN!!! Like that will ever happen   ::

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## Оля

> however, the one I recall right away and was the longest scene after he sold the mellons and he is pushing Vera, there are no subtitles at all for that entire scene

 Hmm... Maybe something was wrong with the player or software somehow. I've just downloaded the subs file and checked: there _are_ subtitles for scenes after he sold the melons there. Sorry for being so boring.  ::   
By the way, I tried to understand what means "he is pushing Vera" and examined my dictionary for several times, but I am in perplexity.   ::  Did you mean him carrying her on the cart maybe?

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  however, the one I recall right away and was the longest scene after he sold the mellons and he is pushing Vera, there are no subtitles at all for that entire scene   Hmm... Maybe something was wrong with the player or software somehow. I've just downloaded the subs file and checked: there _are_ subtitles for scenes after he sold the melons there. Sorry for being so boring.

 
I am the mechanically inferior female here, I downloaded them and matched them up and let them rip… I can try it again and see if they work…   

> By the way, I tried to understand what means "he is pushing Vera" and examined my dictionary for several times, but I am in perplexity.   Did you mean him carrying her on the cart maybe?

 Yes, and no...  
Technically, the cart is carrying Vera and he is pushing the cart. 
In the scene, Vera is sitting on the suitcases, right? And the suitcase are on like a hand trolley correct? 
(picture for those who have not seen the movie, it is _"sort of"_ something like this)  
As he is "pushing" the trolley, he is in turn pushing Vera. 
If he were to carry Vera, that would mean more like he has her in his arms or on his back. Does that example help?

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## Оля

> Technically, the cart is carrying Vera and he is pushing the cart.

 Oh, now I see!   ::   Thank you!

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## studyr

> This was a real treat for me and I highly recommend it for any female.

 I'm not a female but I like this movie a lot. The funniest of its scenes is the one in a train compartment when Andrey (Nikita Mikhalkov) says:" Come on, come on, come on, yourself, yourself, yourself..."  ::

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## Оля

> The funniest of its scenes is the one in a train compartment when Andrey (Nikita Mikhalkov) says:" Come on, come on, come on, yourself, yourself, yourself..."

 I like the scene when they're trying to settle for sleeping on a bench at the station and moving each other "a little".   ::

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## rockzmom

> And I've enjoyed a lot the "Frankestein Junior" movie! I've seen it 3 times and it never stops making me laugh

 Oh, what a good time my family had last night thanks to you! All four of us watch Young Frankenstein!  
Studyr, I don't know if you have had a chance to watch it yet, so I won't give too much away.  
This movie has soooo many play on words and double meanings, oh my goodness.  
It was interesting for me to see which ones the girls understood and which ones the girls did not. And which of the two got some and which one didn't as only a year seperates the two of them.  
I could not find my favorite clip online. It was this little dialogue exchange:   

> - Inga-	“Why look, you haven’t even touched your food.”
> -	Pause and then Dr. Frankestein taking both hands and pounding his fingers all over his food, turns to Inga and says “There, now I’ve touched it.  Happy?”

 For those of you who would like to watch the movie, it is up on YouTube (if they _allow_ you to watch it there from your country) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKKBAoSm8XA

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## studyr

> I could not find my favorite clip online. It was this little dialogue exchange:     
> 			
> 				- Inga-	“Why look, you haven’t even touched your food.”
> -	Pause and then Dr. Frankestein taking both hands and pounding his fingers all over his food, turns to Inga and says “There, now I’ve touched it.  Happy?”
> 			
> 		  For those of you who would like to watch the movie, it is up on YouTube (if they _allow_ you to watch it there from your country) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKKBAoSm8XA

 The clip is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qil3iFpgWdM and the dialogue is on the ninth minute of it. I watched it on youtube too because the AVI I downloaded appeared to be on Italian which I don't understand :fool" The movie is one of Mel Brooks' genius, I love it  
P.S. By the way, you needn't put [url] BBCode  if link begins with http://

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by studyr  The funniest of its scenes is the one in a train compartment when Andrey (Nikita Mikhalkov) says:" Come on, come on, come on, yourself, yourself, yourself..."    I like the scene when they're trying to settle for sleeping on a bench at the station and moving each other "a little".

 Okay studyr, I did not mean to sell the males short here... Just giving them a way to watch what I think is such a "chick flick!" 
Olya, Yes, that was a VERY fun scene! She kept pushing back and she was smaller than him! (and no noise from the dishes). Yet, he was a gentleman and gave her the space... see *CHICK FLICK*!

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## iriroma

> Originally Posted by iriroma  And I've enjoyed a lot the "Frankestein Junior" movie! I've seen it 3 times and it never stops making me laugh      Oh, what a good time my family had last night thanks to you! All four of us watch Young Frankenstein!

 I'm really glad you've enjoyed the movie!!   ::

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## studyr

I am under the desk 
[video:10id10qf]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFP-MktgOKU[/video:10id10qf]

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## iriroma

I've just watched the "Losing Isaiah"! So many emotions!! This story did touch my heart!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYuqYqD1 ... re=related
[video:1p9p3waq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYuqYqD16AY&feature=related[/video:1p9p3waq]

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## rockzmom

> I've just watched the movie "Losing Isaiah"! So many emotions!! This story did touch my heart!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYuqYqD1 ... re=related

 iriroma, you could have said watch "Loising Isaiah" or "watched the movie." Either one of the those would be fine; however, you need to do something with the "the" or take it out.  OR "I have just finished watching the movie "Losing Isasiah"  ::     ::  I have not seen the film; however, I do know about it and I am wondering what did you take away from it? Did you have any views on this matter before watching it? Did your views change afterwards? 
The clip you chose was a good one because when I was growing up here in the states, there were no "black role models" for children. In fact, there were no non-white role models at all. Everyone on TV and in the print ads were pretty much white, until the Cosby Show came along. Yet here he is criticizing her for showing her son the same thing she grew up with, that millions of kids grow up with even today... the characters on Sesame Street (most likely he is referring too), and that show was the first to actually have non-white people.

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## rockzmom

*Foreign Films (Not American or Russian)* 
My first year of photography and film school, 1981-1982, was a magnificent year for foreign films and a documentary film.  “Art House” films as they are known here; because, you can usually only watch these types of films at small “art” movie theaters and not the “regular” movie theaters. There were three films that changed the way I looked at not only "art" but the world durning that time. Before then, I had no idea that there was such a thing as a “foreign film” or that a movie could just have music as its dialogue. I learned that there was a complete a totally different world of films out there than I had ever known. It was a BIG wake up call to me and I drank it all in. It was a number of years before I found another foreign filmed that I enjoyed as much or thought about as much as those other three... 1988 to be exact.  The four films I speak of are Das Boot, Diva, Koyaanisqatsi, and Nuovo Cinema Paradiso. 
I’ll start with Koyaanisqatsi today and we can discuss the others later.   *WARNING*
If you have NOT seen this film and plan to, do not search for information about it as it will give away the opening sequence and if you are going to watch it, you really should try to figure out what you are watching in those first few minutes on your own. It is very cool and once you figure it out it is like Ooooooooh. Wow. (I admit it was much cooler on the big screen.)  *Koyaanisqatsi*: Life out of Balance, 1982
Koyaanisqatsi, is a Hopi Indian word translated as "life of moral corruption and turmoil" or "life out of balance." 
Yesterday, I discovered that MGM has put the entire movie in one video out on YouTube for everyone to see (I hope that includes people outside the U.S.). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sps6C9u7ras 
I saw this film three times when it came out and each time I saw new things in the film. With the exception of the sometimes slow rhythmic chanting of “Koyaanisqatsi ,” there are no words in this film. It is only the masterful music of Philip Glass and the slow motion and time-lapse photography of cities and many natural landscapes across the United States.  The film is stunningly beautiful in showing the most spectacular images of not only some of the more recognizable landscapes of the U.S. but of also waves of rolling clouds that appear to be like their own ocean and cloud mists over such a brightly colored green mountainside you would swear it was spray painted.  You will travel to cities at night and see the cars whirling around the roads at a hectic pace in a blur of red and white lights. You will watch as people scramble up and down escalators at New York's Grand Central Terminal and a San Francisco BART (metro) Station… there is so much more than this and all of it will amaze you, with its breathtaking colors and awe-inspiring views and yet... at the same time, make you think.  
The movie shows the yin and yang so to speak of our world.  An example of that almost irony or just plan juxtaposition is the one of the sunbathers on a beach, then the panning of the camera to reveal they are right near the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station.   
But what exactly is the film about? The director of the film,  

> the Qatsi films are intended to simply create an experience and that "it is up [to] the viewer to take for himself/herself what it is that [the film] means." He also said that "these films have never been about the effect of technology, of industry on people. It's been that everyone: politics, education, things of the financial structure, the nation state structure, language, the culture, religion, all of that exists within the host of technology. So it's not the effect of it's that everything exists within [technology]. It's not that we use technology, we live technology. Technology has become as ubiquitous as the air we breathe..." From DVD interview.

 I hope that you will watch the movie and make certain that you turn the volume *UP* to get the THX type experience.   Also, remember to see how long it takes before your eyes and brain work together to figure out what exactly you are looking at in the opening sequence! Finally, remember that film was made 27 years ago.    ::  If you do watch it or have already seen this film, please post your reviews and/or comments (but don't post what the opening sequence is, I don't want to spoil that for anyone as I remember my first time trying to figure it out)!!! I hope that MGM has not blocked it for you non-American folks!

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## devochka

I've seen Koyaanisqatsi years ago in our history class. I don't remember the opening scene so I can't comment on that. 
Unfortunately, the video isn't available for me and since Belgium usually doesn't censor youtube, I guess it's just not available to viewers outside of the US.   
I do remember having mixed feelings about this movie when I saw it. I loved the images and the music but I couldn't help but thinking why on earth we were watching this movie in history class. Also, we watched on a regular television set so I reckon a lot of the effect was lost. I would love to watch it on a big screen with a surround sound system.
You made me want to find a copy now and watch it again!   ::

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## rockzmom

> I've seen Koyaanisqatsi years ago in our history class. I don't remember the opening scene so I can't comment on that. 
> Unfortunately, the video isn't available for me and since Belgium usually doesn't censor youtube, I guess it's just not available to viewers outside of the US.   
> I do remember having mixed feelings about this movie when I saw it. I loved the images and the music but I couldn't help but thinking why on earth we were watching this movie in history class. Also, we watched on a regular television set so I reckon a lot of the effect was lost. I would love to watch it on a big screen with a surround sound system.
> You made me want to find a copy now and watch it again!

 devochka, that *is* interesting that you saw it in history class. I was also surprised that it is under the "Documentary" genre.  
I don't know about your library system over there; but, ours actually has a copy of it and I placed a hold on it because my Hubby HATES to watch things on the computer.  
You are correct, I would LOVE to see this one remastered and rereleased in a large theater in surround sound!!! So, dim the lights, and crank up the volume! 
I also found it on these sites with no downloading, fees, signing up or anything like that, maybe one of them will work for you. If not, let me know and I will keep hunting:  http://quicksilverscreen.com/watch?video=42923 http://www.fancast.com/movies/Koyaan...isqatsi/videos http://antigravitybunny.blogspot.com...anisqatsi.html http://www.watchdocumentaries.net/20...f-balance.html http://beta.sling.com/video/show/80055/74/Koyaanisqatsi

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## iriroma

> Originally Posted by iriroma  I've just watched the movie "Losing Isaiah"! So many emotions!! This story did touch my heart!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYuqYqD1 ... re=related   iriroma, you could have said watch "Loising Isaiah" or "watched the movie." Either one of the those would be fine; however, you need to do something with the "the" or take it out.  OR "I have just finished watching the movie "Losing Isasiah"     I have not seen the film; however, I do know about it and I am wondering what did you take away from it? Did you have any views on this matter before watching it? Did your views change afterwards?

 Rockzmom, thanks for having corrected me. 
No, I didn't have any views on it. I just bought the DVD because I liked the plot of the movie. (BTW the plot summary you'll find here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Losing_Isaiah.)
Actually, I feel sympathy just for the baby who had to suffer thanks to his biological mother (who was black). I didn't like Isaiah was given back to her only because the court decided that his adoptive mother (who was white) wasn't capable to raise the black baby. But did anybody ask the child WHAT he wanted?!
At the end they didn't make any final decision - Isaiah's biological mother had to look after him but she didn't cope with it, so she called the adoptive mother... 
But those scenes when the baby was being taken away from his adoptive mother, when he fell asleep in the bathroom squeezing in his little hand the hairpin his mother gave him, the way he was missing his mother and some other scenes were really heart breaking. 
Also I have to admit that I liked the perfomance of the actors.
And in conclusion - it's a heavy movie and it's quite difficult to say who is right and who is wrong.

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## CoffeeCup

> Koyaanisqatsi

 As the director stated the movie really creates an experience or impression sequence to a viewer. The viewer should make himself ready to such an approach where the screenplay is not some kind of a story where some meaning must present but the screenplay is a sequence of impressions. Like an instrumental music at the end of a songs album. 
Nevertheless, having such an aim to make an experience giving movie, Reggio still had to choose something what to shot for visual sequence. So, he chose a surveying type of shots. Except opening and closing sequence, the movie resembles some kind of a nature series about bugs or ants. The resemblance is enhanced due to absence of human personality of any kind. Like a silent photo of what somebody outside can see if he is able to see such an infinitely wide angle of things. So, the movie occurred to be a snapshot of the cross-section of that time. I suppose this is why the movie was used to the history class.

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## Vbar

Going back to the posts about Mark Zakharov’s movies, I think that one of his masterpieces, _The Very Same Munchausen_,
 is  full of sarcastic irony and humorous allusions to Soviet reality.
So, no wonder why this film was so popular during Brezhnev's rule. 
I found very humorous (doubly humorous) these two sentences:  _Итак, господа. Я пригласил вас, чтобы сообщить пренеприятнейшее известие.
Черт возьми, отличная фраза для начала пьесы._  _So, gentlemen, I have invited you in order to inform you of a most unpleasant bit of news.
Damn, a very nice sentence to begin a play with._  
And I’d like to wish a good 32nd of May to everybody who is happy to have a new day and, of course, is fit for it.

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## Оля

> is full of sarcastic irony and humorous allusions to Soviet reality.

 I find this observation surprising, but... thinking more about the movie I think that it might be correct.
Funny, but I never saw anything _hinting at Soviet reality_ in this film; although there are many others in which I saw it (which means it's not because I never lived under Brezhnev). For instance, in another Zakharov's film, "To Kill A Dragon".
I always thought that "The Very Same Munchausen" tells us about universal human's values/troubles, such as stupidity, betrayal, irony, and many others... Although it's hard to deny that there are many things in the film which have very much common with Soviet reality.

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## Vbar

The film depicts a great variety of characters and each one tells us a different human story along with its positive values and its defects. 
I quite agree with you. 
Needless to say, when I speak about _Soviet reality_, I  must rely on what I have read or  was told. There is one character in the film (the Duke) who may be seen as a parody of a specific soviet leader: Brezhnev.  
The film portrays the Duke as incompetent and disinterested in politics. He is very funny when 
he learns of the possible war with England: he goes to the globe and asks, "Where is it, where, I ask you." 
The Burgomaster acts both as a sort of tutor and as translator for the poor  Duke. 
Another funny and allusive scene.
Jakobina: _Did you sign Baron Munchausen's request for a divorce_?
Duke: _Who signed it? Did I sign it?_
(Burgomaster nods)
Duke: _Yes, I signed it._
Jakobina: _So he can marry Marta?_
Duke: _Why marry?_
(Burgomaster nods)
Duke: _Yes, he can marry._ 
The Duke seems to be both protected and controlled by those around him.
I read some  anecdotes  where the leader  relies on texts provided by others, which recalls  
the Duke in Gorin's / Zakharov's Munchausen. 
Here’s a couple of anecdotes about Brezhnev (I’m not sure who created them, whether Russian or American joke-writer).  _Suslov comes to the door three times and knocks. Each time Brezhnev gets up, puts on his glasses, and reads from a piece of paper "Who's there?" Suslov does not answer because he "forgot his glasses at home" or "forgot his note."_   _At the opening of the Moscow Olympics he five times reads "O" followed by stormy and lengthy applause. By the head gestures of  the joke-teller, the listener understands that he is reading the logo of the Olympics at the top of the page._

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## it-ogo

> character in the film (the Duke) who may be seen as a parody of a specific soviet leader: Brezhnev. 
> The film portrays the Duke as incompetent and disinterested in politics.

 I feel like this comparison brought in by head and shoulders. Duke's incompetnce is a clear result of the hereditary nature of his power, which is not the case for Brezhnev. And Brezhnev was enough competent before he got senile imbecility. They look too different in too many aspects.

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## Vbar

> Originally Posted by Vbar   character in the film (the Duke) who may be seen as a parody of a specific soviet leader: Brezhnev. 
> The film portrays the Duke as incompetent and disinterested in politics.   I feel like this comparison brought in by head and shoulders. Duke's incompetnce is a clear result of the hereditary nature of his power, which is not the case for Brezhnev. And Brezhnev was enough competent before he got senile imbecility. They look too different in too many aspects.

 Я прошу прощения for anything that might have happened to your head and shoulders. 
I am only too aware of my deep incompetence about Russian history (and not only).  
All I wanted to say can be summarized as follows. _The Very Same Munchausen_ was produced in 1979. By the mid-1970s Brezhnev’s mental health was not very good. 
So, is there anything that prevents us from thinking of _Zakharov’s allusion_ to his contemporary Soviet leader?
The success of a satirical, ironic allusion may depend on  how the audience succeeds in “getting” it. And a political allusion (from _ludere_ ~ to play with, jest) may become increasingly obscure, until eventually it is understood by the author alone. 
So, you may be quite right when you say “They [Brezhnev and the Duke] look too different in too many aspects”.

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## Полуношник

> So, is there anything that prevents us from thinking of _Zakharov’s allusion_ to his contemporary Soviet leader?
> The success of a satirical, ironic allusion may depend on  how the audience succeeds in “getting” it.

 KGB has gone, so nothing can prevent us from thinking anything. However, the ironic allusions that we "get" are not necessary the same allusions which was intended by Zakharov. Is there something that could prevent me from thinking that Zakharov wasn't so narrow-minded when he shot his film? Look, the Soviet Union doesn't exist twenty years. Brezhnev died about 30 years ago. I think, half of the members of this forum doesn't remember those times. Nevertheless, they like this film. May be they see more common allusions.

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## Vbar

> Originally Posted by Vbar  So, is there anything that prevents us from thinking of _Zakharov’s allusion_ to his contemporary Soviet leader?
> The success of a satirical, ironic allusion may depend on  how the audience succeeds in “getting” it.    KGB has gone, so nothing can prevent us from thinking anything. However, the ironic allusions that we "get" are not necessary the same allusions which was intended by Zakharov. Is there something that could prevent me from thinking that Zakharov wasn't so narrow-minded when he shot his film? Look, the Soviet Union doesn't exist twenty years. Brezhnev died about 30 years ago. I think, half of the members of this forum doesn't remember those times. Nevertheless, they like this film. May be they see more common allusions.

 Gogol died in 1852, but nothing prevents me from thinking that more than half of the members of this forum  have been able (or could be able) to appreciate Zakharov’s allusion to Khlestakov (even if Ревизор was published in 1836).
So, I do not think that it is necessary  to have lived in some particular period of history to _'remember'_ certain events. It is sufficient to read ( or have read) some books… 
As it was implicit in my first post, I, too, like this film and consider Zakharov a very open-minded and intelligent person. 
Thanks for your attention. 
P.S.
I wish you a happy 32nd of May.

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## rockzmom

Vbar, Welcome to this thread!  
You have sparked a nice little debate here which I am trying my darndest to follow; however, I must say that you lost me very early on at...  

> And I’d like to wish a good 32nd of May to everybody who is happy to have a new day and, of course, is fit for it.

 Was that from the film or a inside Russian joke or what?   ::

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## CoffeeCup

According to many modern statements Baron Münchhausen was famous not only due to his feats which he performed with his strength, dexterity and smartness but the Baron was also known as a very talented and intellectual person. He believed to make a lot of scientific discoveries. One of the discoveries was his calculation of Earth rotation period in relation to the day duration. He found the very small difference which if be gathered for hundreds or thousands of years would be enough to make a whole additional day. Like the Feb 29 added each four years for the leap-year there should be one more day added each several hundreds or thousands of years. So the baron placed it just after the May 31 when he realized it and named the May 32.

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## Vbar

> Vbar, Welcome to this thread!

 Thank you.  

> And I’d like to wish a good 32nd of May to everybody who is happy to have a new day and, of course, is fit for it.

 From the film – Part one - after about 51 minutes (00:51:4 :: . _- I, Baron Karl von Munchhausen...
- Look at the date!
The year of 1779, May the 32nd.
- How is it possible? Baron, you are mistaken, this date does not exist. 
- It does!
- Well, if yesterday it was the 31st of May then what date is it today? 
- The 32nd.
. . . . . . . . . . . 
- Thomas! Are you happy that we now have the 32nd of May?
- Not quite, Baron. On the 1st of June I get my wages._

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## rockzmom

CoffeeCupp & Vbar... thank you for the explainations!  
I had this movie (which I have not seen; but now have a copy to watch) and another moive mixed up  ::  This is why I was having such a hard time following the conversation and did not remember the line May 32nd! 
I will now put this movie on my schedule to watch ASAP so I can get caught up with these comments.   ::  By the way, I have been watching (a little bit at a time) *"Hello, I'm Your Aunt!"* The opening montage of this is fantastic. Very timely as I was just talking about silent films.  Me, of all people, who if you follow this thread know slap stick is not high on my list of favs, am enjoying this movie VERY MUCH!! (yes, the previous was a poorly worded sentence with absolutely NO correct grammar or structure. You highly skilled ESOL Russians may edit away at that one. Take your best shot!)  
Rockzmom.

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## Оля

I love "Hello, I'm Your Aunt".  ::  
By the way, the movie title became a widely used quote.

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## rockzmom

I also see that there was an American version of this movie "The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" (1988 film directed by Terry Gilliam) I have requested a copy from my local library so once I have finished  watching both versions I can compare the two! 
Online: Mega (English only)
part one: http://www.megavideo.com/?d=xxfm7gc3
part two: http://www.megavideo.com/?d=md0m6heq  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096764/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adv...ron_Munchausen  

> Baron Munchausen is a character from The Surprising Adventures of Baron Munchausen (or Baron Münchhausen's Narrative of his Marvellous Travels) by Rudolf Erich Raspe — a collection of tall stories published in 1785, based on the German adventurer Karl Friedrich von Münchhausen, but with many debts to earlier works. The tales were adapted and re-published in German by Gottfried August Bürger in 1786 as Wunderbare Reisen zu Wasser und zu Lande, Feldzüge und lustige Abenteuer des Freyherrn von Münchhausen and became much more popular in this edition. 
> The stories were also made into films in 1911 (Les Aventures du baron de Münchhausen), 1943 (Münchhausen, script by Erich Kästner) and 1961 (Baron Prášil). *His most famous adventures feature in a 1979 movie Tot samyi Münchhausen by Russian director Mark Zakharov, which depicts Baron Münchhausen as a tragic character, struggling against the conformity and hypocrisy of the world around him.* Gilliam's film has many visual similarities to the 1943 version and the production company was legally obliged to add a disclaimer to the film's posters and closing titles to the effect that Gilliam's Munchausen was an original movie unconnected to the earlier version.

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## studyr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkrF4swOnOU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D707NV_j7HY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckHRXat2Zq4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AItEljPaGM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVZIDdf4RsI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1srWXcqlV_I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjnhQv853Tk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq7ZIDxP6Ew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0HDdbYhlgE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRq0mUsIuHc

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## rockzmom

These are for "Hello, I'm Your Aunt!" with English subtitles. Thanks StudyR for posting these links and by the way, they come from "birubirFilms" which use to be "GalaBiR" who was banned and is now back up!!! So, a number of the films that were listed on my summary page I need to go back and update with new links!!!   

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkrF4swOnOU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D707NV_j7HY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckHRXat2Zq4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AItEljPaGM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVZIDdf4RsI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1srWXcqlV_I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjnhQv853Tk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq7ZIDxP6Ew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0HDdbYhlgE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRq0mUsIuHc

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## studyr

Thank you, Mrs Flores, for reminding me of this genius film. I have enjoyed it today but first I shared  links with the board.
P.S. I don't make a secret out of my first name, any Skype user who checked my Skype ID knows it, so you can use it at any topic, not only at a PM.

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## rockzmom

d.

----------


## rockzmom

UPDATED as of JULY 26, 2009  
Below is a list of the films & CARTOONS/ANIMATED FILMS! (at the bottom after the films) and current links!  If you want me to add a film (or I missed one), please let me know and provide a link for me (one with English subtitles would of course be VERY nice). 
If you find any broken links, errors, or better links, please let me know!  YOU CAN DOWNLOAD A .PDF COPY OF THIS LIST AT: http://www.mediafire.com/?nndmvguu0id 
Alphabetical order (English)*   *"12"* (razgnevannyh muzhchin), 2007
 (Crime/Drama/Thriller) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_(film)
(This film is based off of an American play and the 1957 American film "12 Angry Men")  http://www.mininova.org/tor/1964056%...0DVD%20quality   *“17 Moments of Spring”*, (Семнадцать мгновений весны), 1973 
( Adventure/Drama/War/Spy/History)   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevente...ents_of_Spring 
Summary that might help if you have never read the book http://www.sovlit.com/spies/17moments.html 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links: 
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/8573042000/17_M...rt_01.avi.html 
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/8564013000/17_M...rt_02.avi.html
Part 3: http://narod.ru/disk/8565491000/17_M...rt_03.avi.html
Part 4: http://narod.ru/disk/8568356000/17_M...rt_04.avi.html
Part 5: http://narod.ru/disk/8570771000/17_M...rt_05.avi.html
Part 6: http://narod.ru/disk/8560804000/17_M...rt_06.avi.html
Part 7: http://narod.ru/disk/8654589000/17_M...rt_07.avi.html
Part 8: http://narod.ru/disk/8656399000/17_M...rt_08.avi.html
Part 9: http://narod.ru/disk/8659038000/17_M...rt_09.avi.html
Part 10: http://narod.ru/disk/8661156000/17_M...rt_10.avi.html
Part 11: http://narod.ru/disk/8664119000/17_M...rt_11.avi.html
Part 12: http://narod.ru/disk/8653012000/17_M...rt_12.avi.html 
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy.
Part 1 file size 701 mb
Part 2 file size 677 mb
Part 3 file size 496 mb
Part 4 file size 700 mb
Part 5 file size 656 mb
Part 6 file size 486 mb
Part 7 file size 535 mb
Part 8 file size 466 mb
Part 9 file size 688 mb
Part 10 file size 468 mb
Part 11 file size 493 mb
Part 12 file size 522 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s43d3XGbbF4 (English Subtitles) Part 1/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VL0mLBN4VU (English Subtitles) Part 2/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPhl_28JbbY (English Subtitles) Part 3/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EcC6tUJtNo (English Subtitles) Part 4/12 (1/ :: . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK7A4EKkwcU (English Subtitles) Part 5/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS67-nhX4xI (English Subtitles) Part 6/12 (1/ :: . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpxh3JYzWhY (English Subtitles) Part 7/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsuABKZC2fo (English Subtitles) Part 8/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRLgcQBnv5I (English Subtitles) Part 9/12 (1/ :: . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eihx_XPj9pM (English Subtitles) Part 10/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiBAakG6qsg (English Subtitles) Part 11/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKJPGC4h7tY (English Subtitles) Part 12/12 (1/7).   *"An Usual Wonder"* aka "An Ordinary Miracle", (Обыкновенное чудо, Obyknovennoye chudo), 1978 (Comedy/Fantasy/Musical/Romance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Ordi...le_(1978_film) 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links: 
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/7490213000/Usua...art-1.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/7495214000/Usua...art-2.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 545 mb, Part 2 file size 561 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV_wnsa86kg (English Subtitles) Part 1 of 2 (1/ :: . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OFTCxTAbv4 (English Subtitles) Part 2 of 2 (1/7).   *“Anna Karenina”*, (Анна Каренина), 1967 
(Drama/Romance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina_(1967_film)  
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links:
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/9399847000/Anna...art-1.avi.html 
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/9402574000/Anna...art-2.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 780 mb, Part 2 file size 693 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlcgRFRbE_A (English subtitles). Part 1/2 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlzzngOLudE (English subtitles) Part 2/2 (1/6).   *"Battleship Potemkin"*,( Броненосец «Потёмкин», Bronyenosyets Potyomkin), 1925
(Drama/History/War) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battleship_Potemkin 
Two ways to watch online! http://vodpod.com/watch/49049-battle...in-1hr-12-mins
OR
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPXAXP0Zl-s
Part 2:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBz-5ltUbnM    *"Beware of the Car"*, (Береги́сь автомоби́ля) 1966 
(Comedy/Crime/Romance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beware_of_the_Car
No new links (please let me know if you have one!)   *“Charodey" or "Sorcerers" or "Magicians”*, (Чародеи), 1982 
(Family) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charodey  http://torrents.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1288203
(could not find English subtitles though...)   *"Day Watch"*, (Дневной дозор, Dnevnoi dozor), 2006
(Action/Fantasy/Horror/Thriller) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_Watch
(This film is the second of four, loosely based on the novels by Sergei Lukyanenko)  http://movie25.com/day-watch_669.html   *“Formula of Love”*, (Формула любви), 1984
(Romantic Comedy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_of_Love_(film)  http://www.memocast.com/mediadetails.aspx?id=25932   *“Gentlemen of Fortune”*, (джентльмены удачи), 1972
(Comedy/Crime/Drama/Mystery/Romance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen_of_Fortune 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/7332007000/Gent..._subs.avi.html 
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 947 mb. 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBaslOFO6Ow (English subtitles). Part 1 of 9   *"Heart of a Dog"*, (Собачье сердце, Sobachye serdtse), 1988
(Drama/Sci-Fi) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_a_Dog  *Awards*
Winner, Prix Italia for Fiction, for the 1989 Prix Italia Awards (Italy) 
THREE WAYS TO WATCH!!!
Part 1: http://www.guba.com/watch/3000012924...78d56532c5010a
Part 2: http://www.guba.com/watch/3000013241...d6e248a8bb11fe 
English Subtitles: http://www.divxtitles.com/subtitles/...Heart_of_a_dog http://english.getsub.org/english-su...of-a-dog-18693  
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links:
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/8698665000/Hear...art_2.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/8700504000/Hear...art_1.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 619 mb, Part 2 file size 619 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEuzB9zomn0 (English Subtitles) Part 1 of 2 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toVkNXDDyQU (English Subtitles) Part 2 of 2 (1/7).   *“Hello, I’m Your Aunt!”*, (Здравствуйте, я ваша тётя!), 1975
(Musical Comedy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello,_I'm_Your_Aunt! 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/4176019000/Hell..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy.
The file size 617 mb. 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkrF4swOnOU   (English Subtitles). Part 1 of 10   *"Irony of Fate"*, (Ирония судьбы, или С лёгким паром) 1975
(Romantic Comedy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_of_Fate 
(This film is traditionally broadcast in Russia and some other former Soviet republics every New Year's Eve)
No new links (please let me know if you have one!)   *"Ivan Vasilievich Changes Occupation"*, (Иван Васильевич меняет профессию) 1973
(Action/Adventure/Comedy/Sci-Fi) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Va..._to_the_Future
No new links (please let me know if you have one!)   *"Kidnapping, Caucasian Style"* or "Prisoner of the Caucasus", or "Shurik's New Adventures", (Кавказская пленница, или Новые приключения Шурика, Kavkazskaya plennitsa, ili Novie priklucheniya Shurika), 1967
(Action/Adventure/Comedy/Music/Romance) 
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping,_Caucasian_Style  
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link:  http://narod.ru/disk/7333230000/Kavk..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 532 mb. 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC9zASOCUI0 (English subtitles). Part 1 of 8   *"Kin-dza-dza!"*, (Кин-дза-дза!), 1986
(Sci-Fi/Comedy/Drama) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin-dza-dza!  http://rapidlinks.ru/link/?lnk=13024
And watch it with these subtitles http://www.divxsubtitles.net/page_su...n.php?ID=99972   *"Night Watch"*, (Ночной дозор, Nochnoy dozor), 2004
(Action/Fantasy/Horror/Thriller)
(This film is the first of four, loosely based on the novels by Sergei Lukyanenko) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_W...s.avi.html</a>
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 803 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6MWS0Xqokk (English Subtitles) Part 1 of 10.   *"The Diamond Arm"*, (Бриллиантовая рука), 1968: 
(Action/Adventure/Comedy)
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Arm 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link:  http://narod.ru/disk/7326997000/Bril..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 650 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjxjkYTcqRw (English subtitles). Part 1 of 10.  
(please note, when I first watched online, it had a very bad Russian soundtrack, not certain if it has been fixed)   *"The Hounds of the Baskervilles"*, (Приключения Шерлока Холмса и доктора Ватсона: Собака Баскервилей), 1981
(Crime/Mystery) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hou...es_(1981_film) 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links:  
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/4358781000/Houn...art_1.avi.html 
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/4358782000/Houn...art_2.avi.html  
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 408 mb, Part 2 file size 393 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwR-sW2sN5w(English Subtitles) Part 1/2 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV0oUI-Ytv0  (English Subtitles) Part 2/2 (1/7).   *"The Lady with the Little Dog"*, (Дама с собачкой, Dama s sobachkoy), 1960
(Drama/Romance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lad...the_Dog_(film)  *Awards*
Winner Diploma of Merit, Foreign Actor (Aleksey Batalov) at the 1962 Jussi Awards (Finland) 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/8820502000/Lady..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 969 mb  
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EtFg4yJVJc (English Subtitles) Part 1/8    *"The Master and Margarita"*, (Мастер и Маргарита), 2005
(NOTE: This is the 10 part mini-series from 2005, below there is the information and link for Yuri Kara's Version )
(Drama/Mystery/Romance/Thriller) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mas...05_miniseries)  
Music from this 2005 series: http://www.tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158401 (this link has 8 songs including the main introduction song) http://mp3forum.com.ua/showtopic81183.html (this link has the full 2 disk CD from the series)  *THIS IS THE MINI SERIES (Bortko's version) Below is the link for Yuri Kara's Version* 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links: 
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/3892370000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/3892715000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 3: http://narod.ru/disk/3893441000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 4: http://narod.ru/disk/3893631000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 5: http://narod.ru/disk/3900056000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 6: http://narod.ru/disk/3918570000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 7: http://narod.ru/disk/3934994000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 8: http://narod.ru/disk/3935347000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 9: http://narod.ru/disk/3935673000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 10: http://narod.ru/disk/3935860000/Mast..._subs.avi.html  
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy.
Part 1 file size 267 mb.
Part 2 file size 297 mb.
Part 3 file size 299 mb
Part 4 file size 214 mb
Part 5 file size 214 mb
Part 6 file size 255 mb
Part 7 file size 269 mb
Part 8 file size 243 mb
Part 9 file size 346 mb
Part 10 file size 202 mb  *"The Master and Margarita"*, (Мастер и Маргарита) (NOTE: THIS IS FOR Yuri Kara' VERSION)
(Drama/Mystery/Romance/Thriller) http://www.masterandmargarita.eu/en/...karagered.html 
You can download this video at:  http://www.tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23399 (In Russian ONLY ...have not found English subtitles for this yet)  
"*The Meeting Place Cannot Be Changed*" (Место встречи изменить нельзя, Mesto vstrechi izmenit nelzya), 1979
(Adventure, Crime, Mystery, Action)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mee...not_Be_Changed 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy. 
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links: 
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/8035702000/Meet...art-1.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/8036856000/Meet...art-2.avi.html
Part 3: http://narod.ru/disk/8037731000/Meet...art-3.avi.html
Part 4: http://narod.ru/disk/8038736000/Meet...art-4.avi.html
Part 5: http://narod.ru/disk/8034737000/Meet...art-5.avi.html 
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy.
Part 1 file size 577 mb
Part 2 file size 661 mb
Part 3 file size 555 mb
Part 4 file size 572 mb
Part 5 file size 681 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImeK_EUu314 (English Subtitles) Part 1 of 5   *“The Return”*, (Возвращение), 2003
(Drama) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_(2003_film)  *Awards*
Nominated, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 2004 Golden Globes (Hollywood Foreign Press Association)
Winner, 'CinemAvvenire' Award (Best Film), Golden Lion, Luigi De Laurentiis Award, SIGNIS Award, and Sergio Trasatti Award, at the 2003 Venice Film Festival 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/5475378000/The_..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 897 mb  
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faK4pLJxx4k (English Subtitles)  Part 1 of 10   *“The Stroll”*, (Прогулка Progulka), 2003 
(Drama/Romance) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372478/ 
Found a poor copy of it online in Russian and then found English subtitles for it:
movie: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...69710602626284
English subtitles: http://www.allsubs.org//search-subtitle/progulka+/10 
Here is a review from someone in Moscow that was posted on Amazon  http://www.amazon.com/The-Stroll-Pro...dp/B0002FCJQ6:   *"The Thief"* (Вор, Vor), 1997
(Drama) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thief_(1997_film)  *Awards*
Nominated, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1998 Oscars (Academy Awards, USA)
Nominated, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1998 Golden Globes (Hollywood Foreign Press Association)
Winner, Best Actor (Vladimir Mashkov), Best Actress (Yekaterina Rednikova), Best Director (Pavel Chukhraj), Best Film
& Best Music at the 1998 Nika Awards (Russia)
Winner, Prize of the International Youth Jury, The President of the Italian Senate's Gold Medal, and UNICEF Award, at the 1997 Venice Film Festival
Winner, Best Young Performer in a Foreign Film (Misha Philipchuk), at the 1998 Young Artist Awards (Los Angeles, Ca)  
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/10070192000/Thi..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 658 mb  
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJboCGxMxEk (English Subtitles) Part 1/9   *“The Very Same Munchhausen”* (Тот самый Мюнхгаузен, Tot samyy Myunkhgauzen)  1979
(Comedy/Fantasy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Very_Same_Munchhausen
(could not find yet online)   *"Volkodav (Wolfhound)"*, (Волкодав), 2006/2007
(Fantasy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkoda...nd_Clan_(film)
torrent only   *"War and Peace"*, (Война и мир, Voyna i mir), 1968
(Drama/ History/Romance/War) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_and...281968_film%29  *Awards*
Winner, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1969 Oscars (Academy Awards, USA)
Winner, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1968 Golden Globes (Hollywood Foreign Press Association)
Winner, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1968 New York Film Critics Circle Awards
Winner, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1968 National Board of Review Awards, USA  
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links:
Part 1 'Andrei Bolkonsky': http://narod.ru/disk/6895046000/War_...art-1.avi.html
Part 2 'Natasha Rostova': http://narod.ru/disk/6936056000/War_...art-2.avi.html
Part 3 '1812': http://narod.ru/disk/6939877000/War_...art-3.avi.html
Part 4 'Pierre Bezukhov': http://narod.ru/disk/6946055000/War_...art-4.avi.html 
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 1.15 gb ,Part 2 file size 782 mb, Part 3 file size 652 mb, Part 4 file size 772 mb  
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihV-ZJ-GAA (English Subtitles) Part 1/4 (1/14). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGtmdHOXjg (English subtitles). Part 2/4 (1/9). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scgLxPHHdR4 (English subtitles). Part 3/4 (1/ :: . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsD6lsCpPQg (English subtitles). Part 4/4 (1/9).   *"White Sun of the Desert"* , (Beloe Solntse Pustyni/Белое солнце пустыни), 1969 
(action/Adventure/Comedy/Drama/War/Western) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Sun_of_the_Desert 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/9221552000/Whit..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 697 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDEpRLPbSGM   *CARTOONS/ANIMATED Short Films!*  *“Film Film Film!”*  (Фильм, Фильм, Фильм), 1968
Animated Short Film by Fyodor Khitruk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film,_Film,_Film  *Awards*
- Grand Prize in Colombo, Sri Lanka 1973
- Official Selection of Tampere, Finland 1970
- Official Selection New York, USA 1969 
WATCH ONLINE AT: 
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfwm7bMTKCM
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moQkOXrLoqU   *"Once Upon a Dog",* (Once Upon a Time There Lived a Dog), (Жил-Был Пёс), 1982
Animated Short Film (more cartoonish) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_Upon_a_Dog 
WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcM3aXn7LZ4   *"Three from Buttermilk Village"*, (Three from Prostokvashino), (Трое из Простоквашино, Troye iz Prostokvashino)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostokvashino 
WATCH ONLINE AT:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOebKn_WhI0
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hnPSSnS1g0
Part 3: (coming soon)   *"Winnie the Pooh"* 
WATCH ONLINE AT:
Episode 1: Adventures of Winnie the Pooh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqdiEUp6s4E
Episode 2: Winnie Pooh Goes Visiting (Vinni Puh Idet v Gosti) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qam9JBk5Oig
Episode 3: Winnie Pooh and the day of Concerns 
part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73uIn56G1YE
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtVVRuy1T9c  
*updated July 26, 2009

----------


## Waterlaz

OMG. Hats off... 
Have you seen all these movies?

----------


## rockzmom

> OMG. Hats off...

 Thanks!    

> Have you seen all these movies?

 Sadly no, but I have seen...
12
Beware of the Car
Day Watch 
Gentlemen of Fortune
Heart of a Dog
Hello, I’m Your Aunt! (in progress)
Irony of Fate
Ivan Vasilievich Changes Occupation
Kin-dza-dza!
Night Watch
Office Romance
Railway Station for Two
The Diamond Arm
Volkodav
White Sun of the Desert 
So I need you all to help make a list of which ones you think I should see next!  
I was watching 17 Moments of Spring and had to stop as it was taken off Youtube, but now I found I can just download that one directly and will do so. I also have "The Very Same Munchhausen" but just need subtitles in order to watch that one. 
So, everyone .... send in your votes as to your top three that I should watch next and remember I need them to have subtitles!  
If they are not on this list that is okay, just find me a link.  Fantasy (even with fighting), sci-fi, fiction, romance, comedy, mystery... no problem... realistic war with too much blood and guts and sadness ...ummm maybe not this time.  ::  
I remember everyone thought Solaris was really good and I do have that one downloaded already.  ::

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## Оля

> I also have "The Very Same Munchhausen" but just need subtitles in order to watch that one.

 I think I've found them:   ::   http://www.divxsubtitles.net/page_subti ... p?ID=65464   

> I remember everyone thought Solaris was really good and I do have that one downloaded already.

 The film was so very boring to me...   ::

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  I also have "The Very Same Munchhausen" but just need subtitles in order to watch that one.   I think I've found them:    http://www.divxsubtitles.net/page_subti ... p?ID=65464

 Thanks!! I downloaded them. 
I am working on trying to sync the four files up now and then save them to a DVD so that I can watch this with the girls! My techno geekness is showing as it is getting the best of me.   ::   They work fine in VLC, yet I cannot get it to output or SAVE from VLC (I just get error messages) and the program I normally use to do this (4Media) is not happy with the subtitles (sigh).    

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  I remember everyone thought Solaris was really good and I do have that one downloaded already.   The film was so very boring to me...

 Okay, so I now have one *NO* in Solaris column.

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## Waterlaz

Well Solaris is by Tarkovsky. That describes it pretty good. I personaly enjoyed very much. Though Stanislav Lem hated it and afaik had a big fight with Tarkovsky about it.

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## rockzmom

Everyone! I uploaded a PDF of the movie list that I posted yesterday. Here is the link....  http://www.mediafire.com/?nndmvguu0id

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## rockzmom

> Well Solaris is by Tarkovsky. That describes it pretty good. I personaly enjoyed very much. Though Stanislav Lem hated it and afaik had a big fight with Tarkovsky about it.

 And Tarkovsky did Stalker also right??? Have you seen that one?

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## Оля

> And Tarkovsky did Stalker also right??? Have you seen that one?

 _I_ have.   ::   
Well... I think you can guess my opinion.   ::   
I know Tarkovsky was a great director... I can't say anything is bad or unprofessional in his films, but ... it's just they are not just "for viewers". I'd say it's what we call "авторское кино" in Russian ("art cinema" in English maybe?..). It often is really boring for a "simple" viewer. Although there are many of "art cinema" things I really enjoyed, so I hope I should not be considered as a _very simple_ viewer...  ::

----------


## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by Оля        Originally Posted by rockzmom  I also have "The Very Same Munchhausen" but just need subtitles in order to watch that one.   I think I've found them:    http://www.divxsubtitles.net/page_subti ... p?ID=65464   Thanks!! I downloaded them, but for anyone who does download these...note that the file type comes as a .sub and needs to be renamed to .srt which is no biggie.  
> I am working on trying to sync the four files up now and then save them to a DVD so that I can watch this with the girls! My techno geekness is showing as it is getting the best of me.    They work fine in VLC, yet I cannot get it to output or SAVE from VLC (I just get error messages) and the program I normally use to do this (4Media) is not happy with the subtitles (sigh).

 So, I have now tried five different programs and *ONLY VLC* can recognize the subtitles even if I don't change the file type!! And I just cannot get VLC to output the file in anyway shape or form once I get it up and running.   ::     ::  Does anyone have any suggestions for me? As it is a rather long movie, I would much rather watch in on the TV and not the computer if at all possible.....  
I know picky, picky!! I want subtitles and to have it on a DVD! And of course some nice Russian chocolate to go with it would be nice too!    ::

----------


## Оля

> So, I have now tried five different programs and *ONLY VLC* can recognize the subtitles even if I don't change the file type!! And I just cannot get VLC to output the file in anyway shape or form once I get it up and running.      Does anyone have any suggestions for me? As it is a rather long movie, I would much rather watch in on the TV and not the computer if at all possible.....  
> I know picky, picky!! I want subtitles and to have it on a DVD! And of course some nice Russian chocolate to go with it would be nice too!

 Кто-нибудь может мне на русский перевести, в чем проблема rockzmom?   ::

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## E-learner

> I am working on trying to sync the four files up now and then save them to a DVD

 Does that mean that you have four AVIs and need to glue them together? If so, use VirtualDub, which is small, free and doesn't need to be installed. I could explain further but I'm not sure that that is what you need.

----------


## it-ogo

> Кто-нибудь может мне на русский перевести, в чем проблема rockzmom?

 rockzmom хочет записать фильм для просмотра на DVD-плеере и при этом сохранить субтитры.

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## Оля

> rockzmom хочет записать фильм для просмотра на DVD-плеере и при этом сохранить субтитры.

 Хм... Я и не знала, что avi-файлы можно смотреть на DVD-плеере...   ::

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  I am working on trying to sync the four files up now and then save them to a DVD   Does that mean that you have four AVIs and need to glue them together? If so, use VirtualDub, which is small, free and doesn't need to be installed. I could explain further but I'm not sure that that is what you need.

 Okay I got some cheap chocolate and a cup of tea and I will try to explain again my troubles.... 
1) I have two .avi files of the movie (part 1 and part 2) and the two .sub files (subtitles, part 1 and part two) that I got from the links Olya provided earlier today.  
2) When I go to "merge" the part 1 of the movie and the part 1 of the .sub (subtitles) it ONLY works in VLC Media Player (same for part 2 as well). It will NOT work in any other program EVEN if I change the file extension to .srt for the subtitles. And it will only let me watch it on the computer screen. It looks and sounds great!  ::   
3) I WANT to be able to export the merged .AVI files (the Russian movie) and the .sub (English subtitles) into two files (part 1 and part 2 and a .AVI file would be fine) so that I can put it onto a DVD and then be able to watch it on my TV. 
4)I see in the VLC program there are ways to Convert/Save or Stream, yet when I tried that a million different times I got these error messages:   

> File reading failed: 
> VLC could not open the file "F:\Movies\Russian\tvsm1.avi :sub-file=F:/Movies/Russian/Tot Samyy Myunkhgauzen [1-2].srt :subsdec-align=0 :freetype-rel-fontsize=16".
> Your input can't be opened:
> VLC is unable to open the MRL 'F:\Movies\Russian\tvsm1.avi :sub-file=F:/Movies/Russian/Tot Samyy Myunkhgauzen [1-2].srt :subsdec-align=0 :freetype-rel-fontsize=16'. Check the log for details. 
> or I get this: 
> File reading failed:
> VLC could not open the file "F:\Movies\Russian\tvsm1.avi :sub-file=F:/Movies/Russian/Tot Samyy Myunkhgauzen [1-2].srt :subsdec-align=0 :freetype-rel-fontsize=16".
> Your input can't be opened:
> VLC is unable to open the MRL 'F:\Movies\Russian\tvsm1.avi :sub-file=F:/Movies/Russian/Tot Samyy Myunkhgauzen [1-2].srt :subsdec-align=0 :freetype-rel-fontsize=16'. Check the log for details.
> ...

 Yet to me this makes no sense at all as the VLC porgram *CAN* open these files as it did before as I could watch the movie on my computer! 
I have Vista and tried 4Media Video Converter, DiVXPlayer,Full version Real Media Player, Wiagra and none of these programs recognized the subtitles... only VLC did. What I mean by this is when I selected the subtitle file, these programs would either not open the file and give an error message or would not play the subtitles. 
Is this all clear as mud now   ::

----------


## Оля

> Is this all clear as mud now

 To me, the most unclear thing now is why you want to watch the movie on the DVD player.  ::  
I actually didn't know that one could watch avi files on a DVD player (especially with subtitles like .srt or others), and I don't think it's possible...

----------


## rockzmom

> Is this all clear as mud now
> 			
> 		  To me, the most unclear thing now is why you want to watch the movie on the DVD player.

 Oh... well, when you have two girls and a sometimes a hubby who want to try and get intertested in this whole "Russian" thing it is nice to all all pile on the BIG bed  (with the two cats) and watch the movie on the tv instead of trying to watch it on the little computer monitor. OR... sometimes I put it on an ipod and watch it on that when I have to take the bus to NY or I am waiting while the girls are working! Small screen, but it makes the trip and the time go MUCH faster!!!   

> actually didn't know that one could watch avi files on a DVD player (especially with subtitles like .srt or others), and I don't think it's possible...

 Yup, I do that all the time!!! As a matter of fact, that's how we're watching "Hello, I'm Your Aunt!" We get the DVDs that you can record and then erase and then record over and over again so we don't have to keep buying DVDs!

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## Оля

Okay, then... There is no sense in renaming the file extention. Sub and srt are two different formats. Try to find a converter which would turn .sub into .srt.

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## E-learner

*rockzmom*
I downloaded those subtitles and they are neither SUBs nor SRTs. I converted them with "Subtitle Workshop" and they are here: http://narod.ru/disk/9511150000/Tot%20S ... D.srt.html http://narod.ru/disk/9511195000/Tot%20S ... D.srt.html

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## E-learner

I don't have a DVD player but I always thought that you just dump AVI and SRT with the same name on the disk and it works. Doesn't it?

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## it-ogo

I do not have a DVD player, but I have a cable to connect my PC to TV directly if I want to see .AVI on a big screen.   ::

----------


## rockzmom

> *rockzmom*
> I downloaded those subtitles and they are neither SUBs nor SRTs. I converted them with "Subtitle Workshop" and they are here: http://narod.ru/disk/9511150000/Tot%20S ... D.srt.html http://narod.ru/disk/9511195000/Tot%20S ... D.srt.html

 If I could but give you a kiss and a hug my sweet e-Learner, I would right now!!!   
It looks like the subtitles might even be the same if not close to the ones Olya provided for me. 
Did you happen to notice on that site if they actually have the movie already with the subtitles merged? If so, I can list it on my movie list.  

> I don't have a DVD player but I always thought that you just dump AVI and SRT with the same name on the disk and it works. Doesn't it?

 I never tried that.... 
As far as I know.. you must use a program, like the one I use, 4 Media Video Converter, and merge the movie and the subtitles together, then burn to a DVD or on to your ipod or other portable device.  
When you do this you can also change the color, size, and even type of font for the subtitles. Like I prefer Yellow for my subtitles instead of WHITE as for me it is easier to read most of the time. I also should use glasses for distance and sometimes if I don't want to wear my glasses, I can make the font REALLY LARGE .   

> Okay, then... There is no sense in renaming the file extention. Sub and srt are two different formats. Try to find a converter which would turn .sub into .srt.

 Olya, did not know that. Thank you. I will look for the Subtitle Workshop that eLearner mentioned in the event this happens again so I don't spend an entire day   ::  . 
I am merging the two files with the subtitles as I type and then will burn them to a DVD and this weekend give the girls a break from their studies and watch this MOVIE!!!  
Thanks to both of you!!!  ::

----------


## E-learner

> It looks like the subtitles might even be the same if not close to the ones Olya provided for me. 
> Did you happen to notice on that site if they actually have the movie already with the subtitles merged? If so, I can list it on my movie list.

 Either I'm missing something or you misunderstood me. 
I believe I downloaded the very same subtitles from the very same site that you did, following the very same link that Olya provided earlier in this thread. 
What I think happened was that you were confused by my statement that "they are neither SUBs nor SRTs". I did not mean that the names of the files did not end with the .sub. They did.
What I meant was that the internal structure of the files did not befit a decent SRT- or SUB-file. 
Now, I must admit that I wasn't entirely correct on that account. It turned out that there are loads of different subtitle formats that people decided to mark with the extension .sub. It's just that I had never run across that particular variety of them before. Your software seems to not know anything about it either. Although, I think it would recognise the "usual" kind of .sub.
Fortunately, Subtitle Workshop is smarter than the rest of us.   ::

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## E-learner

> Originally Posted by Оля        Originally Posted by rockzmom  I remember everyone thought Solaris was really good and I do have that one downloaded already.   The film was so very boring to me...     Okay, so I now have one *NO* in Solaris column.

 I wouldn't have gone so far as to say that that film was boring for me, but I do say that all its highbrow philosophy, which many people claim it to possess, was lost on me. 
I suppose, as it is neither definite "yes" nor definite "no", this post is useless.   ::   It just that I seem to develop some kind of addiction - to write something, anything, in English.   ::

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## Waterlaz

> And Tarkovsky did Stalker also right??? Have you seen that one?

 Yes, I've seen Stalker. I liked it better then Solaris. Stalker being based on a book has nothing in common with it. 
Maybe just some ideas. But in general Tarkovsky takes a book and makes a movie about something completely different.

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## E-learner

Speaking of highbrow philosophy - it had never appealed to me in Lem's works. What I praise him for is "The Invincible", which is sci-fi drama, and the series about Ijon Tichy, which is sci-fi comedy/satire. Even if there was philosophy in there, it was delivered directly, through emotions. 
I remember the moment in my life when I was genuinely scared that I might actually die from laughter.  I was suffocating and helpless, my abs seemed to be about to break. It happened when I was reading one of the Ijon Tichy stories.

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## rockzmom

> Either I'm missing something or you misunderstood me.

 Yes, I misunderstood you! I thought that you found NEW subtitles on that site. I did not understand that you took the ones Olya found and reformated them and posted them for me!!! That was VERY kind and helpful!   

> I suppose, as it is neither definite "yes" nor definite "no", this post is useless.

 You could not be further from the truth.....   

> art must create a specific emotional link between artist and audience, one that "infects" the viewer. Thus, real art requires the capacity to unite people via communication (clearness and genuineness are therefore crucial 
> values). Leo Tolstoy, "What is art?"

 Soap box time.... 
This thread has morphed from where it started; yet, it is now open to almost any discussion on the arts, not just Russian. We have talked about American TV and their numerous double entendres, silent films, books, music, different genres.... we have not even touched photography, paintings, or scuplutres yet! It is now an open thread of thoughts or/questions about the arts (and technology  ::  ) and how people view them and how different cultures interpret them. 
To me, this thread *has* united us via communication and *ALL* of you have educated me and I thank you for that.  ::   
End of soap box.

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## GreenLarry

From one of my favourite movies:
'All of these moments are soon lost,like tears in the rain.'
You know it too?

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## E-learner

Speaking of sci-fi satire. 
I mentioned somewhere on this forum that I was going to read one of Kurt Vonnegut's books and you, *rockzmom*, hinted politely at the necessity of writing a review.   ::   Well, it's not going to be a review. I'm afraid of doing him injustice, really. But I'll write at least something. 
I'm grateful to the person who compared, somewhere on the internet, the style of Douglas Adams to the style of Kurt Vonnegut. That was how I, a fan of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", decided to give Vonnegut a try, and I never regretted it, regardless of how much in common they have. 
Adams was mostly mild, ironic. Vonnegut was mostly sarcastic, cynical. He was ruthless to mankind in his books. Not everybody will like that. Some people perceive him as a human-hater. I don't. It's just that he thought that something was going wrong in this world of ours and was trying to wake people up to that. I am sure that he included this passage into his book _Slaughterhouse-Five_ exactly with the purpose of explaining his attitude: "Roland Weary and the scouts were safe in a ditch, and Weary growled at Billy, ''Get out of the road, you dumb motherf*cker.''
The last word was still a novelty in the speech of white people in 1944. It was fresh and astonishing to Billy, who had never f*cked anybody — and it did its job. It woke him up and got him off the road."
It was me who put asterisks there. _He_ wasn't prudish _at all_.
Or squeamish.
I remember one particularly cynical passage, but I just can't put it here, because without context all the hilarity would be gone and it would turn into something repugnant. 
I enjoy reading Vonnegut. Even if there isn't much of a plot in a book. So far, I've read  _Cat's Cradle_, _Slaughterhouse-Five_, _Galapagos_, am reading _Breakfast of Champions_ now. It's not that they are without weaknesses, but I enjoyed all of them. Vonnegut's just "my" kind of author, I suppose. Maybe even more so then Douglas Adams.

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## rockzmom

> From one of my favourite movies:
> 'All of these moments are soon lost,like tears in the rain.'
> You know it too?

 Howdy Larry Green! Welcome to the thread and for selecting one of my favorite actors... see below after your Tears in the Rain clip for why... 
[video:27691bwr]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_saUN4j7Gw[/video:27691bwr] 
I am very partial to Harrison Ford. I remember seeing "Star Wars" as a kid and "Raiders of the Lost Ark" (saw it twice in one day! Karen Allen is from my hometown) both when they still had the larger screen movie theaters. "Witness" was special as we live so close to Amish country and "Working Girl" I would always watch the night before I would start a new job.  Also, his mom is Russian!

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## rockzmom

As a child and teenager I simply detested reading. I clearly remember three books which turned me off reading for a good number of years: 
J. D. Salinger’s, “Catcher in the Rye”  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Catcher_in_the_Rye
John Steinbeck’s, “The Grapes of Wrath”  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grapes_of_Wrath
John Irving's, “The World According to Garp” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wor...ording_to_Garp 
I guess this is why I now read all of the books the girls need to read for school and the ones they read for pleasure as well.  
Two of the books they HAD to read for school were just a bear to get through! 
One, a Sci-fi book, by Nancy Farmer, “The Ear, the Eye and the Arm” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ear...ye_and_the_Arm and the other a true historical account by Betty Baker, “Walk the World’s Rim”

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## Basil77

One of my favorite cartoons, I often use quotes from it (with English subs):  *Episode 1:*  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqdiEUp6s4E  *Episode 2:*  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qam9JBk5Oig  *Episode 3:*  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73uIn56G1YE (part I)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtVVRuy1T9c (part II)

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## rockzmom

> One of my favorite cartoons, I often use quotes from it

 Basil! Thank you sooooo much for posting these   ::   
They are sooooooo very different from the American versions! We both agree that we like the cuddly characters of our versions... 
... yet we like the Russian stories, songs and voices better!    ::  BTW.. could not believe the "Damn" in the English subtitles of Part 3, part 1. What was the word in the Russian version? 
I must also admit, I relate WAY too much with "your" Eeyore and of course the sawdust in my head of Winnie as well!!!   ::  So, what are these quotes you often use???

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## Basil77

> [They are sooooooo very different from the American versions! We both agree that we like the cuddly characters of our versions...
> ... yet we like the Russian stories, songs and voices better!

 Telling the truth, the original stories are British, by Alexander Miln  ::  . This cartoon was released in 1959, couple of years later than Disney's one, but director of it, Fyodor Hitruk didn't see the Disney's version when he made this one. I grew up with these cartoons and with Miln's book and saw the Disney's Pooh only at the early 90th, then I was rather grown up. Of course Disney's version is very qualitative, but IMHO Disney's Pooh is too "sweet", if you understand what I mean. Miln's Pooh is a little varmint, maybe even a little greedy and egoistic and I think that Hitruk's Pooh is exactly the same.  Besides I like the children-drowings-style-background. My six years old son can watch American Winnie-the-Pooh series by hours, but when I ask him: "Which Winnie-the-Pooh you like better?", he answers: "Of course "our's", it's much more fun!"  

> could not believe the "Damn" in the English subtitles of Part 3, part 1. What was the word in the Russian version?

 You mean at 3:40? Eeyore said: "Всем наплевать", that means: "Nobody cares", I have no idea why the subtitle maker translated this as "Nobody gives a damn"  ::  . And if you want underline translation of this idioma it's something like : "Everybody are spitting on this matter".  

> So, what are these quotes you often use??

 I know by heart almost the entire lines but my favorite are: "Тяни, Пятачок!" / "Pull, Piglet" (when I'm pulling something  ::  ), "Это ЖЖ неспроста!" / "This BUZZ is not without a reason", "И того и другого , и можно без хлеба" / "Both of them, and you can skip the bread" and "Всё потому, что кто-то слишком много ест!" / "It's all because someone eats too much!"   ::

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## iriroma

Oh! The Soviet version of Winnie the Pooh! Yes, it's a great cartoon! I do love it. 
My son often watches it, and though he doesn't speak Russian, he quotes the cartoon successfully. Once he made a scene - he got stuck between the sofa and the wall and started to cry in Russian: "Помогите, помогите! Пятачок, я застрял!" ( Help! Help! Piglet, I got stuck!)   ::

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## devochka

Oh, I love the Soviet Winnie the Pooh! Especially "Winnie the Pooh goes visiting"   ::  . 
Another cartoon I really like is "There once was a dog". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcM3aXn7LZ4 (with English subtitles)

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## Basil77

> "There once was a dog".

 I love this cartoon!  ::   My favorite quote from it: "Щас спою!" (I'm gonna sing!)

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## Lampada

> Originally Posted by devochka   "There once was a dog".   I love this cartoon!   My favorite quote from it: "Щас спою!" (I'm gonna sing!)

 viewtopic.php?f=47&t=13264&p=159438&hilit=%D0%BC%D  0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE+%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B1%D0%BB%D1%8E+%D  0%93%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%86%D1%8F#p159438 Вот бы ещё слова этих песен найти.

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## Basil77

Lampada, you link reminds me of another very often quoteable cartoon series! I'll repost them here, with your permission, with english subs for Rockzmom: 
Episode 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOebKn_WhI0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hnPSSnS1g0 
Unfortunately, I've found only first episode with English subs on Youtube. My favorite and most quoteable is the 3rd one, Winter in Prostokvashino.

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## E-learner

All that talk about Winnie-the-Pooh reminded me of Evgeniy Leonov (who was doing Winnie-the-Pooh) and subsequently of a great film with him playing the lead, one of the leads anyway. It's "Старший сын" ("Starshiy syn", "Elder Son"). To my deepest regret, I couldn't find any subtitles, but it's on youtube for anybody who understand Russian:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td346XD_ ... r_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtIGd92Wdsg&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpeZ1qwHtYA&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmnStKNQldw&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh2Hqb-mC7w&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CrdiTzg_hU&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWHd29paO-Y  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhen_Wbq ... re=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3S3lpWF ... re=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPIhMy1m ... re=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEDSwhjC ... re=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En9YTBms ... re=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t2tReia ... re=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVKR9uGH ... re=related

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## rockzmom

Thanks for all the cartoons. They are great and I want to get back to them in a few. I see now where "Matroskin Kot" comes from!!! I am downloading that one for us to watch on the TV. 
I want to talk get back to "The Very Same Munchhausen" for few minutes or postings.  
I NEED HELP!!!! pleassseeee.... 
I was doing just fine understand and enjoying this movie right up until the time they found him guity. 
I understand they arrested him so that the ex-wife could keep her little business going and make money off his death and all and if he came back to life that would ruin it all. What I don't get was everything after that. Okay so they found him guilty of impersonating the Baron; but, his entire speech and the way the people behaved... mind head hurts just trying to remember it now. Was the Baron the sane one and everyone else crazy? :fool"  
Also, Marta, can I personally take a 2x4 and slap it upside her head for leaving him?  ::  
Oh, and I was VERY upset at the thought that he killed himself   ::    *AND* to learn that Oleg Yankovskiy recently died.  ::   I had to Google his name as he look vaguely familiar. He had such a wonderful expressionistic face and voice that carried the tone of the words and his timing for delivering his lines, OMG! Perfect! Even though I don't understand Russian, I was amazed and drawn in. I had recalled the face when I saw the first part of Munchhausen and thought, no.. could it be the same man? And it was, it turned out I had seen him in the movie "The Man Who Cried."  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5giSZmHF8e4

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## devochka

::   I apologize for going off topic but Rockzmom, where does the expression "2x4" come from? I understand it and have often heard it but when I try to picture it, my mind draws a blanc. Could you please enlighten me?

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## rockzmom

> I apologize for going off topic but Rockzmom, where does the expression "2x4" come from? I understand it and have often heard it but when I try to picture it, my mind draws a blanc. Could you please enlighten me?

 THERE IS NO OFF TOPIC IN THIS FORUM!!! 
A 2x4 is a piece of lumber (wood) that is used in construction.  
Each piece is a 2"x4" (38 x 89 mm) height and width and then in length of like 8 feet (2.4384 meters) or 10 feet (3.048 meters) 
Here are piles or stacks of them.

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## capecoddah

On Comcast On-Demand free this month: Баллада о солдате (Soviet Union: Russian title) aka Ballad of a Soldier (USA). Russian, English subtitles. Good movie, but ultimately depressing. 
Zhanna Prokhorenko   ::   (music) Жанна

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## devochka

> Originally Posted by devochka    I apologize for going off topic but Rockzmom, where does the expression "2x4" come from? I understand it and have often heard it but when I try to picture it, my mind draws a blanc. Could you please enlighten me?   THERE IS NO OFF TOPIC IN THIS FORUM!!! 
> A 2x4 is a piece of lumber (wood) that is used in construction.  
> Each piece is a 2"x4" (38 x 89 mm) height and width and then in length of like 8 feet (2.4384 meters) or 10 feet (3.048 meters) 
> Here are piles or stacks of them.

 
Thanks Rockzmom! I didn't realize the 2"x4" was only referring to height and widt and that there was another 8 or 10 feet of wood coming. I always thought: "such a small piece, you would have to hit really hard to make it hurt"   ::

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## GreenLarry

Rockzmom,sorry for the late reply. Yes I like Harrison Ford too and have all the Indiana Jones films(apart from the new one yet),Bladerunner of course and all the Star Wars films.
Good actor! And i want one of Indies hats!

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## studyr

> Вот бы ещё слова этих песен найти.

 Ой там на горі *
    	       	Українська народна пісня   
Ой, там на горі, в шовковій траві,
Ой, там сиділа пара голубів -
Цілувалися, милувалися,
Сизими крильми обнімалися. 
Ой, десь узявся мисливець-стрілець,
Голуба убив, голубку зловив,
Додому приніс, додолу пустив,
Насипав пшонця й водиці налив. 
Голубка не їсть, голубка не п'є,
Та все на ту гору плакать літає.
"Ой, єсть у мене сімсот голубів,
Літай, вибирай, може ж тa є й твій". 
"Я вже літала, вже й вибирала,
Нема такого, як я кохала,
Хоч пір'я й таке, й такий пушок,
А, як загуде - не той голосок".   Да косив батько, косив я. 
Да косив батько, косив я,
Да викосили солов'я
Соловей у саду тьох да тьох. Канареєчка...
Роман кость, Гапка в'яже, Катерина загріба,
Грицько воли напува, Ганна воду тяга.
Ой, мамо, люблю Гриця.
Гриць на конику вертиться.
В Гриця шапка до лиця,
Люблю Гриця молодця.
Да прийди, Грицю, в понеділок,
Да підем разом по барвінок.
Да прийди, Грицю, у вівторок,
Да поцілую разів сорок.
Да прийди, Грицю, у середу,
Да підем разом по череду.
Да прийди, Грицю, у сіботу,
Да підем разом на роботу.
Да прийди, Грицю, у неділю,
Да підем разом на весілля.

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## rockzmom

Studyr  ::   
NO FAIR! I need translation please!!!! There is no way that Google Translate will properly translate all of that for me!!!  
I know your English skills are good enough to at least give me a general idea of what you wrote about .... please....  ::

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## Basil77

> NO FAIR! I need translation please!!!! There is no way that Google Translate will properly translate all of that for me!!!

 It's the lyrics of two Ukrainian songs (in Ukrainian) from the cartoon "There once was a dog". Lampada mentioned that she couldn't find them. Telling the truth, I can not fully understand these lyrics myself, although : 1)I't my wife's native language, 2)I've been at Ukraine many times (actualy I go there at least two times every year), 3)Ukrainian is very close to Russian, I personally even don't count it as a full language.   ::

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## studyr

There on the hill, were 2 pigeons. They were kissing, loving, embracing each other with their grey wings. All of a sudden, a musketeer appeared. He killed he pigeon and caught she pigeon. He brought her home and let her go to his yard. He supplied her with millet and water but she neither eat nor drink. He asked "I've got seven hundred pigeons. Fly there and find one for you." But she answered "I've already fled, I've already searched for. Some has the same feathers but when they start to sing their voice is different and there is no one I'm in love with." 
P. S. Jazz, call me Geoge please.

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## rockzmom

George, 
Thank you for translating. I have cleaned it up a bit and I hope I did not take away too much of the meaning while doing so.   ::      

> There on the hill, were [s:3fygz118]2[/s:3fygz118] two pigeons. They were kissing, loving, and embracing each other with their grey wings. All of a sudden, a musketeer appeared. He killed the [s:3fygz118]he[/s:3fygz118] male pigeon and caught the [s:3fygz118]she[/s:3fygz118] female pigeon. He brought her home and let her go to live in his yard. He supplied her with millet and water but she neither [s:3fygz118]eat[/s:3fygz118] ate nor [s:3fygz118]drink[/s:3fygz118] drank. [s:3fygz118]He[/s:3fygz118] The musketeer [s:3fygz118]asked[/s:3fygz118] pleaded with the pigeon, "I've got seven hundred pigeons. Fly over there and find [s:3fygz118]one for you[/s:3fygz118] yourself a new mate." But she answered forelorned, "I've already fled, and I've already searched [s:3fygz118]for[/s:3fygz118]. Some [s:3fygz118]has[/s:3fygz118] have the same feathers but when they start to sing their voice is different and there is no one I'm in love with."

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## studyr

Jazz, thanks for correction but it doesn't matter (besides they sing "killed" and "caught", then "eat" and "drink" ). The point is that now, you know what the song is about. When the Wolf said that he wants to sing, all started too. And they found this song so touching that one man even dropped a tear into his glass   ::  I found this cartoon very funny and I love it  ::  Here it is if you had not watched it yet
[video:28i7rdmw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5au6UbfzXjQ[/video:28i7rdmw]

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## rockzmom

> The point is that now, you know what the song is about. When the Wolf said that he wants to sing, all started too.

 Ahhhhh! George!    Now I Understand! I had not realized that the song went with *"There Once Was a Dog"!!!* Thanks for the translations!  
And yes, we agree with everyone, it was a fantastic cartoon!!!
----- 
Last night, we watched "Prostokvashino" and thought it was VERY cute. I actually sent a message via YouTube mail to "trueboltsfan" (the guy who posted it and is doing the subtitles) letting him know how much I enjoyed it, blah, blah, blah... and inquiring about the other versions. AND... he responded...   

> You are very welcome. Check back in a few weeks, I should have the other 2 subtitled.

 So hopefully soon, we can watch the rest!!!

----------


## rockzmom

Found a poor copy of The Stroll or Progulka online in Russian and then found English subtitles for it. When I merged them, they seemed to work; however, I have not watched more than a minute or two just to make certain it worked. 
movie: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...69710602626284
English subtitles: http://www.allsubs.org//search-subtitle/progulka+/10 
Here is a review from someone in Moscow that was posted on Amazon  http://www.amazon.com/The-Stroll-Progulka/dp/B0002FCJQ6: 
This film takes place in one day as three young people stroll around the city of St. Petersburg and share personal dreams and lies and develops into an anti-climax of the mystery of human drama.  
On the surface, there can be many complaints about this film, the first being a distorted chronotope. While it is true that the weather changes suddenly in St. Petersburg, the characters turn a corner and all of a sudden it is nighttime. Most of the action occurs in realtime, so in order to actually make the passage of time into a full day, compensations had to made to the true quality of the realtime experiment. Secondly, the subtitled translation is awkward and slow. The characters speak extremely quickly and sometimes subtitles carry over into the next characters' dialogue, and it is often unclear to know who is saying what. Other times, entire lines are omitted from the subtitled version. Thirdly, it seems impossible that this movie could have been scripted, as a result, the conversation is sometimes dull and trite, but unfortunately, conversation is the only truly reliable character present. And I can't say with any confidence the degree of interest this movie will have for a purely Western viewer, one without any ties to Russia or any interest in modern Russia.  
The characters are interesting and surprisingly well-developed for the general surface transparency of the film. For them St. Petersburg holds all aspects in the rich wealth of existence. The other cast of characters consisting of other Petersburgers, locals and tourists, add to the immense depth in this portrait of the city. Workers complain about the fact that the city was built on water, women and men bicker about inane details, the masses swarm and route for a soccer team that rarely wins, and the characters find themselves enmeshed in all of it, thus making it not only a personal but also broadly cultural portrait.  
But overall the city is depicted in positive terms, if you can say that any attention is paid to it. From literature, we usually see the image of the city as a character in itself--powerful, vengeful, beautifully incomprehensible. But here, the young characters sweep past her imposing crowds and through her obtrusive landmarks without any true interest in historical or cultural matters. But it's impossible not to feel dizzy with sensory overload as the characters swirl to the top of St. Isaac's Cathedral and look over the city. There's something amazing and inexplicable underlying everything.  
[EXTRA INFO: For anyone familiar with Russian Ark--a 90 minute, one-take tour through 300 years of Russian history via The Hermitage--this film is sort of a sarcastic spit in the face of director Sokorov, the serious Petersburg intellectual (stereo)type. The director of this film is not from Petersburg, and maybe therefore the perspective is suprisingly fresh and not so "heavy".]

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## studyr

I searched web for English subtitles for Dejavu and }{0ТТ@БЬ)Ч did my best but all in vain  ::

----------


## Winifred

Just a note to say that I absolutely love what I've seen of Russian animation! I have a copy of Masters of Russian Animation which includes There Once Was a Dog, among many others equally good!!  And, the Winnie the Pooh, Russian style, is really wonderful! 
For those who like Westerns, are you familiar with _Have Gun Will Travel_? The hero, Paladin, travels the Wild West using his gun to help people. He lives the life of a gentleman in San Francisco in between adventures. Here is a link to one episode (the prominent sign for a production of _Cyrano de Bergerac_ gives an idea of the plot): http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/categ ... 4mEmkAc2E#  
You might notice a young Charles Bronson in the film....many famous stars made guest appearances in this cleverly written program.   
Also, I cannot find it online, but, in an episode called "Alaska," the program features a very positive Russian character - he is a friend of Paladin's - they have been playing chess with each other by mail .  He needs Paladin to help settle a land dispute, so Paladin goes to Alaska.  The Russian is just a really nice guy - willing to work things out, kind to women, a good friend - but the evil new settlers are greedy, etc...A nice change of pace from the usual Russian bad guy!  And, this program was produced during the 1950's!

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## rockzmom

Book Talk...again... 
Okay, so I was in the book store this morning to pick up a copy of "Three Cups of Tea" for the girl's summer reading list and while at the check-out stand I saw a book that I just could NOT believe...  Pride and Prejudice and Zombies: The Classic Regency Romance - Now with Ultraviolent Zombie Mayhem!   
The young female cashier said the young girls really like the book!   

> *From the back cover of book*[/color]]Pride and Prejudice and Zombies -- "It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains." So begins Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, an expanded edition of the beloved Jane Austen novel featuring all-new scenes of bone-crunching zombie mayhem. As our story opens, a mysterious plague has fallen upon the quiet English village of Meryton—and the dead are returning to life! Feisty heroine Elizabeth Bennet is determined to wipe out the zombie menace, but she's soon distracted by the arrival of the haughty and arrogant Mr. Darcy. What ensues is a delightful comedy of manners with plenty of civilized sparring between the two young lovers—and even more violent sparring on the blood-soaked battlefield as Elizabeth wages war against hordes of flesh-eating undead. Can she vanquish the spawn of Satan? And overcome the social prejudices of the class-conscious landed gentry? Complete with romance, heartbreak, swordfights, cannibalism, and thousands of rotting corpses, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies transforms a masterpiece of world literature into something you'd actually want to read.

 Then I checked Amazon and it even has received good reviews!! I especially love J. Johnson's review:   

> 109 of 132 people found the following review helpful: 
> 5.0 out of 5 stars 
> I have been redeemed..., March 24, 2009 
> By  J. Johnson (Riverside, CA) - See all my reviews
> (REAL NAME)      
> After suffering through Pride and Prejudice in a women's lit class in high school, being one of the three males in the class, and undergoing much embarrassment for my lack of understanding of the subject matter, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies is bittersweet redemption. It was very nice while reading this to feel as though I am exacting revenge on Jane Austen's literary masterpiece by not only understanding the work but also enjoying a pseudo-perverse amalgamation of her work and a horror/comedy film.  
> No doubt some Austen fans will cry "heresy" at what Seth Grahame-Smith has done, that is take a classic piece of literature and splice in zombie references, but I think others will accept this work as the kind of flattery that it is to Ms. Austen. Others, like myself, who were intellectually incapable of understanding the works of Jane Austen, will feel sweet vindication from enjoying her great work with a smidgen of added immaturity.  
> There is no doubt that Grahame-Smith has accomplished something incredibly innovative with this work, possibly spawning a new literary-classic-remade-hilarious genre, and there is also no doubt that he has done so very well.  
> I recommend this book for anyone who enjoys comedy, zombies, and classic women's literature- and I never thought I would recommend anything on those terms.

 *And, it is number 4 this week on the New York Times Best Seller Lists for Paperback Trade Fiction!!!!* (Three Cups of Tea is #1 for Paperback Non-Fiction) 
The book even comes with rather interesting illustrations as well...  
While I LOVE P&P... based upon the reviews and all.... I just might have to go back and purchase this book! I can already feel my brain turning to mush.    ::  I wonder what Ms. Austen would make of this?  ::

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## Basil77

Sorry for changing subject...  ::   I just re-watched all three movies of LOTR and while watching battle scenes there was a comparison suddenly come in my mind with classical battle scenes from Soviet movies when nobody ever heard about CGI and all the exta's were real people. And the best feature of them is that how they are strangely "nonviolent" (I mean there is no blood and such things) and sutable even for little children comparing with modern movies. I'll post several fragments in case someone didn't saw them: 
"Chapaev" (1934), "psychical attack" scene: 
[video:2kumjrin]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBX-y4AF19Y[/video:2kumjrin] 
"Alexander Nevsky" (193 :: , Battle on Ice scene: 
[video:2kumjrin]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDLYO5KA3DQ[/video:2kumjrin] 
"War and Peace" (196 :: , Battle of Hollabrunn scene: 
[video:2kumjrin]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df93ZV5PU5U[/video:2kumjrin]

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## rockzmom

> Sorry for changing subject...   I just re-watched all three movies of LOTR

 Too weird! Older daughter JUST finished watching all three LOTR for the FIRST time. She finished the third one on Wednesday on the bus up and back to NY watching it on her little ipod screen!!! That was how much she wanted to finish watching the last one. Of course, she was digging her nails into me most of the time...  ::

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## Winifred

Rocksmom says:  

> Book Talk...again... 
>  while at the check-out stand I saw a book that I just could NOT believe...

 
My son just read this book (that cover is just so awful) and wants me to read it. I'm building  up the courage.

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## rockzmom

> Sorry for changing subject...   I just re-watched all three movies of LOTR and while watching battle scenes there was a comparison suddenly come in my mind with classical battle scenes from Soviet movies when nobody ever heard about CGI and all the exta's were real people. And the best feature of them is that how they are strangely "nonviolent" (I mean there is no blood and such things) and sutable even for little children comparing with modern movies. I'll post several fragments in case someone didn't saw them:

 I am reminded of several things when I watch a scene like the one you posted from Chapaev. As there were no CGIs and lovely tricks back then, they had to use thousands of extras and coordinate these people. Also, the music was just as important, if not more important at times (except in this case I did not see the drum corps providing the step in time). 
I was an avid fan of the series The West Wing. While watching your scenes for some reason it brought back to mind a specific episode that I always found to be technically amazing to me. The editing, timing, the acting, and of course the soundtrack... all without the aid of CGI, yet a great deal of editing.   
The vision to create this 2 minute and 12 second scene and then to have it come to "life" so to speak has impressed me since the first time I saw it 10 years ago and every time I have seen it since. The timing of the actors steps inside the West Wing, the soldier’s movements, the folding of the flag, the riffle shots timed with the innocent children’s voices, the placing of the flowers on the coffin, and finally the overhead shot of them leaving Arlington... all timed to the music as a whole...to me it is flawless. Each time I watch this scene it is like seeing it for the first time and I am once again in awe as to who could dream up this scene and actually have it come to fruition so perfectly. 
From Season 1, Episode 10 "In Excelsis Deo" 
[video:28q5no2e]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXlPSXuJFDQ[/video:28q5no2e]

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## rockzmom

I also thought this scene from Moulin Rouge was also done extremely well. The mixing of the three story lines, editing, lighting, and dancers movement (especially in unison) timed to the redone version of a “classic” well known rock song took major technical work and vision. (BTW, the rest of the movie... I was not so impressed with.) 
If you click on the "more info" on the right side it has all the words, both spoken and sung.
[video:1zvws1if]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX-B7M56AKk[/video:1zvws1if]

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## rockzmom

So I am back to watching 17 Moments of Spring! 
I have rewatched Part One and am in the middle of Part 2. 
I have a comment and a question. 
Comment:  
Why is it that in this clip while Hitler is watching the news reels at the start of this scene, there are English subtitles for all of the news reels, even the American one that is in English, EXCEPT for the German one? Did the person who did the subtitles thin people who speak and understand English can read but not hear English but can hear and comprehend German?
[video:30xernup]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oddzPCXiytg[/video:30xernup] 
Question:
The large wall music box that is in the restaurant at the 3:25 mark in this scene. I have never seen one such as this before. Can anyone tell me anything about this? The history of these? If they are still made? The actual name of these things?
[video:30xernup]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22SKb1v7-hc[/video:30xernup]

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## E-learner

> there are English subtitles for all of the news reels, even the American one that is in English, EXCEPT for the German one?

 Only Russian speech was subtitled. Schellenberg was translating from English for Himmler and what he was saying was subtitled. He didn't translated from German, obviously.

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## rockzmom

> Only Russian speech was subtitled. Schellenberg was translating from English for Himmler and what he was saying was subtitled. He didn't translated from German, obviously.

 Okay, so you cleared the English to English part up and that makes a little sense for me.  
And I understand why of course he would not translate the German... my brain is not that much mush...yet...    ::   
But.... I still don't understand.... why not subtitle the German into English if the Russian was subtitled into English?

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## E-learner

> why not subtitle the German into English if the Russian was subtitled into English?

 German wasn't translated for film's target audience - Russian viewers, why should it have been translated for English speaking viewers? It would have distorted the perception of the film, wouldn't it? Also, it would have been unfair, or condescending, depending on how you look at it.   ::    
Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films. I'm surprised to find out that I didn't know what it is in English. It's "hands up!"

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## E-learner

> The large wall music box that is in the restaurant at the 3:25 mark in this scene. I have never seen one such as this before. Can anyone tell me anything about this? The history of these? If they are still made? The actual name of these things?

 Apparently, they are called just that: disk music boxes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_box http://www.vincentfreemanantiques.com/disks.htm http://www.themusicboxcompany.com/disk_music_boxes.htm

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## birubir

> Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films.

 What about "Гитлер капут"?   ::

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## birubir

_There's... what is it?.. a crowd 
of people on the palace grounds! 
So it's obvious: things are taking 
A social turn, if I'm not mistaken!_   ::    _I'm a folklore element, 
I have got a document! 
I can fly away from here 
Any time, at any moment!_   ::   ::  
[video:3437eync]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5q7v1ic_rM[/video:3437eync]

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## it-ogo

> What about "Гитлер капут"?

  Айн-цвай, полицай. Драй, фир, фюнф, зег, зибен, ахт, нойн... Битте шён, данке шён. Хальт! Цурюк! Прозит! Едем дас зайне, унтерменш! Их либе зи! Арбайт махт фрай! Гутен морген, гутен таг, либе дамен унд верте геррен! Аусвайс, гештальт унд психоаналитик. Ферштейн нихт! Дас ист фантастишь! 
Кто-то не понял?   ::

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## rockzmom

> _There's... what is it?.. a crowd 
> of people on the palace grounds! 
> So it's obvious: things are taking 
> A social turn, if I'm not mistaken!_     _I'm a folklore element, 
> I have got a document! 
> I can fly away from here 
> Any time, at any moment!_

 BORIS IS IN THE HOUSE!   
I am so very pleased that you accepted my offer to drop in and you even posted a video for us to watch!! 
For those of you who do not know birubir, he is THE MAN, behind many of the videos that we watch or post from YouTube! http://www.youtube.com/user/birubirFilms 
Boris, I hope that you will visit often and let us know when you have found new films (or cartoons) that we should take a look at!!! I will also update my film list with the rest of the links for direct downloading from Yandex for parts 4-12 for 17 Moments of Spring. Thanks!

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  why not subtitle the German into English if the Russian was subtitled into English?    German wasn't translated for film's target audience - Russian viewers, why should it have been translated for English speaking viewers? It would have distorted the perception of the film, wouldn't it? Also, it would have been unfair, or condescending, depending on how you look at it.     
> Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films. I'm surprised to find out that I didn't know what it is in English. It's "hands up!"

 Okay E-learner... maybe it is just because I have had a rough couple of days and it is also 93F here (what is that 33C for you?) but I am still just not getting this. So, I am not picking on you....  ::   
IF the target audience for the English subtitles of this film are Russian viewers... than why translate the Russian into English subtitles? Why have English subtitles at all? 
I thought the target audience of this film WITH English subtitles would be someone like...say ME   ::  . Someone who wants to watch this series but who does NOT understand Russian. 
I just thought it rather odd that of all the languages, German was the only one that did not have the subtitles to let the viewer know what the news reel was saying.  
In the BIG picture, it really does not matter as it is only a propaganda reel, I understand... I just thought it odd and it stuck out like a sore thumb to me. 
------
Now, about the information on the Music Boxes that you found....
If this economy ever turns around again and I have some disposable income... I might just get me one of these there thingamabobbers. Or at least start to look for one at a flea market or second hand store. I never knew they made these types of gizmos and they look just lovely!!! 
Thank you again for finding the information for me!!!

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## E-learner

> Originally Posted by E-learner  Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films.   What about "Гитлер капут"?

 "Капут" is Russian, as well as "kaput" is English.   ::  
Seriously, when I first heard it in a film I was surprised the German soldier seemed to understand it!

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## rockzmom

Everyone, 
I have updated the film listing and at the bottom of the listing, I have now added CARTOONS!!!   ::   
The listing is back on page 13.

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## E-learner

> IF the target audience for the English subtitles of this film are Russian viewers...

 The target audience of the original film, without English subtitles, were Russian speaking people. The German wasn't translated for them. _Russian speaking people do not understand what was said in German_ (unless they know German). 
The target audience of the film with English subtitles were English speaking people. The German wasn't translated for them. _English speaking people do not understand what was said in German_ (unless they know German). 
Russian speaking people and English speaking people are in the same boat. They are having the same experience. Shouldn't it be the ultimate goal of a translation? 
Of course, it's just my understanding. I don't know what the translator was thinking about. Maybe they just didn't know German.   ::

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  IF the target audience for the English subtitles of this film are Russian viewers...   The target audience of the original film, without English subtitles, were Russian speaking people. The German wasn't translated for them. _Russian speaking people do not understand what was said in German_ (unless they know German).

 Now, we're getting somewhere! So, when this was aired on TV back in 1973, none of the German was translated. That is an interesting effect and directorial choice. Is there more German to come in the rest of the parts? Remember, I am only on part 2.    

> Russian speaking people and English speaking people are in the same boat. They are having the same experience. Shouldn't it be the ultimate goal of a translation?

 Agreed, 1,000%. 
E-Learner... you deserve a medal for putting up with me this week! I have been like a tenacious pit-bull and I have noticed that no one dared even come to lend you a hand for fear of it being gnawed at. Thank you for not giving up on me.   ::      ::   ::  E-learner and others... I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released.  Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it? 
One of the classes I took in film school was about the entire colorization process as it was just starting back then.  We were shown how the painstaking research was done to try and be exacting as possible and true to the color of the clothes, paint on the walls, hair and eye coloring, you name it... Personally, I am not a fan of it.  I believe that Black and White films have a feel all to their own and were shot with the cinematographer and director's eye AS a black and white (and with a million shades of grays) a not with color in mind. Restoring a black and white and the soundtrack of the film I am all for, but not to colorize it.

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## Ramil

> E-learner and others... I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released.  Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it?

 
I've started a topic about it in the Culture and history subforum. It even had a poll attached.
Unfortunately, it's in Russian. But you could see users' opinions expressed via the poll.  http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...p?f=23&t=17253

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom     E-learner and others... I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released.  Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it?   I've started a topic about it in the Culture and history subforum. It even had a poll attached.
> Unfortunately, it's in Russian. But you could see users' opinions expressed via the poll.  http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...p?f=23&t=17253

 Ramil...if I could but give you a hug, I would! I took each line and put it into Google Translate! 
And BappaBa ... the photos you posted as well were wonderful for me to be able to see! Thank you both!   ::   
I am on Part 3 right now and I may need to start a thread just with questions just about this film! 
For starters...I need something like a "spy roster" cheat sheet (like a sports team lineup) to help me keep everyone straight.

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## E-learner

> I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released.  Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it?

 I didn't see it, but I've read Russian Wiki and aforementioned thread, and I have some "information to be pondered over." 
First, the picture. They transferred it from 4:3 to 16:9. They did it by cutting out chunks of the picture at the top and at the bottom. The result looks like this (these are just samples): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyePEfKM ... r_embedded
I don't like it. The picture looks cramped, "stifled", if I may say so. I'm sure I would feel the discomfort throughout the whole film. It may not be a big deal for somebody who has never seen the original, though. Maybe.
The colour looks good, I must admit. But does it really contribute something or just ruins the mood? One must watch a considerable part of the film to answer that. 
Second, and this is what I'm even more wary about, the content. They shortened the film. According to Wiki, they stamped especially hard on the "lyrical" content, pauses, things like that.
You see, I never thought of this film as an "action" film and I'm afraid that trying to make it one they might just kill it, at least for me.  
All in all, I'm not going to watch it. I would give it a try, out of curiosity, if all they had done was colour.

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## E-learner

> For starters...I need something like a "spy roster" cheat sheet (like a sports team lineup) to help me keep everyone straight.

 I was never able to get all the intricacies of the plot. Nor did I try too hard.   ::  All I was interested in were characters, their predicaments, good, or bad, luck, the nerve strain.

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## E-learner

> I took each line and put it into Google Translate!

 Do you know that you could put the URL there and get the whole page translated at once?

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## Полуношник

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  First, the picture. They transferred it from 4:3 to 16:9. They did it by cutting out chunks of the picture at the top and at the bottom.

 Big deal. Sometimes they broadcast wide-screen movies transformed to 4:3 format. Faces look like this one in the vertical phase:   ::  
I would find the man who invented this idea and kill him against a wall  ::

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## Basil77

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  For starters...I need something like a "spy roster" cheat sheet (like a sports team lineup) to help me keep everyone straight.   I was never able to get all the intricacies of the plot.

 To get them you should read all the novels about Maxim Isaev written by Yulian Semenov (one of my favorite writers btw  ::  ). Apropos, if you read the books you'll find that Maxim Maximovich Isaev is also a pseudonym of the main hero (he used it when he was a V.CH.K. spy in the White army during the Civil war) and his real name is Vsevolod Vladimirov. In the novel "Bomb for a chairman" Shtirlitz (he is a 67 y.o. professor of Moscow University there) writes some letter and signs:"professor Isaev (Vladimirov)". Reminds something?   :: . Here is the list of the novels (I'm not sure it's complete, but at least these I have on my bookshelf and read): *Бриллианты для диктатуры пролетариата / Diamonds for the dictatorship of the proletariat* 
The action takes place in 1920 mostly in Revel (modern Tallin). The plot is about Civil war, white emigration and so. *Пароль не нужен / Password is not needed* 
1922, the final year of Civil war. Venue is Russian Far East. *Испанский вариант / Spanish version*
1938, Burgos (Spain). Maxim Isaev already becomes Shtirlitz here and fights on a Franco's side as a real Nazi.  ::   *Альтернатива / Alternative* 
1940, about Hitler invasion into Yugoslavia. *Третья карта / The third card*
1941, about Nazi invasion into Ukraine and so-called "national liberation movement" in Ukraine. "The third card" is Stepan Bandera (In the meanig "one of the three Nazi's puppets in Ukraine"). *Майор Вихрь / Mayor Vikhr' (Vortex).* 
1944, Poland. Shtirlitz and some guys from Soviet military intelligence service saves Poland city of Khrakov from the destruction while Nazi retreat. It's strange that in the Soviet movie Shtirlitz, one of the main characters, was cut out from the plot.  ::   *Семнадцать мгновений весны /Seventeen Moments of Spring * 
1945, well... you know  ::  . *Приказано выжить / Ordered to survive* 
1945,The direct sequel of Seventeen Moments of Spring. Shtirlitz caught and tortured by Gestapo, Muller and Bormann runs from defeated Germany to Argentina. *Бомба для преседателя / Bomb for a chairman*
1967, West Berlin. Neo-Nazis are trying to get a nuke. We meet some old fiends here along with Shtirlitz : Aysmann and Holltoff. Aysmann who looks rather honorable in Seventeen Moments of Spring becomes ultimate evil and one the main villians.  :: 
Although all these books were written during Soviet times and have a touch of Soviet propaganda, they still remains very exciting. Btw, Yulian Semenov was one of very few writers who was admitted to the KGB archives while wrote these novels and many of the documents wich he explored still remain top-secret.

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## Basil77

> So I am back to watching 17 Moments of Spring! 
> Comment:  
> Why is it that in this clip while Hitler is watching the news...

 It's not Hitler. It's Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Himmler

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## studyr

I'm watching first season of Sledge Hammer.
Trust me. I know what I am doing.

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  So I am back to watching 17 Moments of Spring! 
> Comment:  
> Why is it that in this clip while Hitler is watching the news...   It's not Hitler. It's Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Himmler

 Yes, I stand corrected thank you. E-learner corrected me as well as another thread member via PM.  
Not being defensive here; but in my defense, here was how I was actually watching all of part one and the first half of part two: 
This is actual size of the DVD player I was using to watch the movie with the screen shot of the intro line for Himmler:  
Here it is enlarged a little:  
Here is a shot of the two of them watching the newsreels:  
And here is my little player all packed up with it's remote control and my sunglasses next to it for size reference:  
So, you can see, if I turned my head for one second, I would have missed who Himmler was as they had just come out of the briefing room with Hitler. While the photos do not show it, the quality is very good, just a compact size... which I need sometimes and the battery lasts for a good few hours. 
Now, I have also learned that "American intelligence operative Allen Dulles" was the younger brother of John Foster Dulles. Which "our" Dulles Airport in Virginia is named after.  
-----   ::  New Questions  ::  .... In Part Three of the Movie...
In the flashback scene in the bar, who is with Stirlitz's wife? 
What is Gabi's role all in all of this? Anything? 
Also, I love how Stirlitz has those little, what I would now call, "House Moments." Like when he is playing chess and all of the sudden that look comes across his face and he magically has his answer.

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## Basil77

> In the flashback scene in the bar, who is with Stirlitz's wife?

 Well, Jazzlyn, I'll try to describe my point, despite my poor English. First of all, I'm not a big fan of the MOVIE (although I like the novel very much). You may call me some sort of sexual chauvinist, but I feel a very big defference between the novel (wich was written by a man named Yulian Semenov) and the movie (wich was directed by a woman named Tatyana Liosnova). Although the plot was almost untouched by the movie director, the movie has a strong feeling of the woman's hand touch. For example: the "wife" theme was made special for the movie. In the novels Shtirlitz just left some girl in Russia and there is not a word in them about they were married, although they had a son. And of course the whole episode with the wife looks logically srange, if you know the plot (according to the novels Shtirlitz left Russia and didn't saw her from 1922 (when he was 22 and she was about 17). Besides, I think it was, if to put it mildly, not typical for foreign intelligence services, especially for Soviet intelligence service of that time, to arrange such meetings, even for most precious agents, with some long-time-non-seen-relatives in such an original manner. Of course the scene is very touching and other that stuff, but imho it was more than unnecessary. And, to answer your question, most likely, it was supposed that this guy was some sort of escort from Soviet intelligence service.  

> What is Gabi's role all in all of this? Anything?

 Gabi and frau Zaurrch just another background insertion special for the movie, just ignore them  ::  . Btw, the image of the strong-man-who-is-faithful-to-its-twenty-years-not-seen-wife is also created special for the movie. For example, in "Alternative" you can find Shtirlitz's far non-Platonic romance with some German countess, who was a member of anti-nazi movement.  

> Also, I love how Stirlitz has those little, what I would now call, "House Moments." Like when he is playing chess and all of the sudden that look comes across his face and he magically has his answer.

 And these are good ones, I agree. I love them too. Especially the later ones, when he makes hedgehog and fox from matches in Gestapo jail while thinking.

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## rockzmom

> And, to answer your question, most likely, it was supposed that this guy was some sort of escort from Soviet intelligence service.

 Basil, your explaination was fantastic and this last part clears up the scene for me. I was not certian if she was cheating on him or also a double agent or what. So it was just a thing where they brought them "together" to let them "see" each other. Now I get it.   

> Gabi and frau Zaurrch just another background insertion special for the movie, just ignore them .

 Will do, thanks.   

> And these are good ones, I agree. I love them too. Especially the later ones, when he makes hedgehog and fox from matches in Gestapo jail while thinking.

 Ahhh, great. 
-----  ::   ::  Next Question... open to all as I feel it does not have to do with the movie so much... more of personal habit, though it could be a character trait. 
So, one more oddball question here and open for anyone... but I guess more for a person who smokes or used to smoke or has friends/parents who are smokers....  
This is just again an observation and question at same time again and since I do not smoke is why I ask.  
I noticed when Shtirlitz was in the bar waiting for his wife he used the matches and not the candle to light his cigarette. I mean if you have the candle already lit, why waste the matches, you never know when you might need them. So... can anyone tell me why a person selects a match, lighter, candle, gas flame from the stove... over the other? Does it give a different taste to the cigarette? Is it a habit thing? Or a smell of the sulfur thing? .... Or is this a character trait of Shtirlitz?

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## studyr

> I noticed when Shtirlitz was in the bar waiting for his wife he used the matches and not the candle to light his cigarette. I mean if you have the candle already lit, why waste the matches, you never know when you might need them. So... can anyone tell me why a person selects a match, lighter, candle, gas flame from the stove... over the other? Does it give a different taste to the cigarette? Is it a habit thing? Or a smell of the sulfur thing? .... Or is this a character trait of Shtirlitz?

 Lighting cigarettes 20 times a day with matches you will use a match 21st time even having a candle. Besides other Germans who had seen him saving ONE MATCH supposed him to be a Jew  ::

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## Ramil

I really don't know why a Soviet spy believes in superstitions, but there really is a rather widespread superstition that lighting a cigarette from a candle will lead you to misfortune. Then perhaps, if you're a spy you'd better be on a safe side.

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## rockzmom

George and Ramil... Thanks for your thoughts on the cigarettes. Two very different points of views. If anyone one else still wants to chime in on that one, please do.   In the mean time... Different movie! New question! 
I started to watch Master & Margarita at home BEFORE watching "17" yet when I went to watch it on my little DVD player, the DVD I had made would not work and the DVD with "17" would, so I switched movies that day. I don't think my poor brain can handle two long term series at once right now so I will have to wait until I finish "17" to get back to Master & Margarita. 
.... While I have only finished part one, the opening theme song for Master & Margarita has caught my attention. Does anyone know what it is? Can anyone find it on YouTube, iTunes, Amazon or somewhere else for me? Lampada??? You are the music Queen of the boards... are you reading this thread these days??? Or is it a very famous song and all of ya'll know it right off the bat and can tell me?   ::

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## Оля

> George and Ramil... Thanks for your thoughts on the cigarettes. Two very different points of views. If anyone one else still wants to chime in on that one, please do.

 I agree with Studyr. If someone sitting in restaurant would light a cigarette with a candle, I think I'd find it strange. Like he's thinking of saving a match, really  :: 
I can add that I, too, was never be able to understand the plot of "17 Moments of Spring".   :: 
And I also find the "wife" scene stupid (ALTHOUGH Tikhonov plays it very very very well). Actually the whole country laughs at that scene.  ::    

> I started to watch Master & Margarita

 I suppose you're watching Vladimir Bortko's version, not Yury Kara's one. I must say that "M&M" is one of my favourite novels, but I don't like Bortko's screen version.

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## rockzmom

> I can add that I, too, was never be able to understand the plot of "17 Moments of Spring".

 Thanks! Now, I don't feel so stupid being lost and rewatching some of the scenes over again thinking, "Did I just miss something?"   

> And I also find the "wife" scene stupid (ALTHOUGH Tikhonov plays it very very very well). Actually the whole country laughs at that scene.

 Another thanks. That one just went right over my head which was why I posted the question. I could not for the life of me understand what was going on in that scene.    

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  I started to watch Master & Margarita   I suppose you're watching Vladimir Bortko's version, not Yury Kara's one. I must say that "M&M" is one of my favourite novels, but I don't like Bortko's screen version.

 Yes, I am/was watching the 2005 mini series version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H61s7jRmT6M as I had not realized there was another version out there. I see on IMDb that the one you are speaking of was only shown at a film festival in Moscow in 2006??? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110476/trivia
Is this version available to watch online somewhere?

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## Оля

> I had not realized there was another version out there. I see on IMDb that the one you are speaking of was only shown at a film festival in Moscow in 2006??? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110476/trivia
> Is this version available to watch online somewhere?

 I've only seen it in some unusual format (mkv, maybe?.. or something) and in a very very very bad quality. And yet I liked it because for me, there was the true spirit of the novel in it, and heroes looked like I imagined them while reading the book.
It was a four parts film, each one was about 1 hour long. Unfortunally I don't know if it's possible to find it online. Anyway, I think that the picture quality would be terrible in this case. 
By the way, in Bortko's version, there is a scene I like very much. That is the hospital scene when Ivan talks with Professor Stravinsky. Stravinsky's role is performed by Vasily Livanov, our famous Russian Sherlock Holmes.  ::  I think he performed the Professor just perfect.  ::

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## rockzmom

> I've only seen it in some unusual format (mkv, maybe?.. or something) and in a very very very bad quality.

 Thanks, I sent a PM and Youtube email to Boris to see if he has seen a copy in his Internet travels. Maybe we will get lucky!  ::

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## Basil77

> Originally Posted by Оля  I can add that I, too, was never be able to understand the plot of "17 Moments of Spring".     Thanks! Now, I don't feel so stupid being lost and rewatching some of the scenes over again thinking, "Did I just miss something?"

 If you don't mind, I'll try to put the plot a little more clear for thouse of you who didn't read the book. At first, some  prehistory.
In the beginning of the XX century young son of the Russian revolutioner goes to the emigration from tzarist regime with his father. They live in different parts of Europe but mostly in Switzerland and Germany, where young Vsevolod became fluent in German and can speak like a native. They return to Russia in 1917 after February Revolution. Vsevolod's father doesn't comletely agree with Bolshevik's doctrine, but Vsevolod becomes a member of Bolshevik's party and one of the closest man of Felix Dzierzynsky. After October revolution he takes pseudonym Maxim Isaev and becomes Сheka agent in the White army. After the end of Civil War in 1922 he (according to the orders from Moscow) goes with the remains of White army to Harbin (China) and continues his conspiracy work there. In 1933 Soviet secret service feels that Hitler will come to power soon, so agent Isaev recieves an order to infiltrate in the Nazi movement. He goes to Australia and comes to the German consulat in Sidney as German citizen Max Otto von Stirlitz who was robbed and lost all his papers. Than he goes to Germany and becomes a member of Nazi party just before they win the elections and come to power. He makes a career in Nazi intelligence service and completes many successful missions for his covert Moscow patrons...
Now to the plot of the film. The beginning of 1945. It's already clear that Germany suffers defeat. But fanatic Hitler still believes he can win. But the head of SS Himmler is not so naive. He sees only one way to avoid comlete defeat and to escape punishmet for his crimes - to break Soviet-American-British alliance, to ally with the West and than to defeat Soviet Union with the help of U.S. and Britain. So Himmler and the head of Nazi intelligence service Shellenberg (Shirlitz's oficial patron) start to seek contacts with Americans and try to convince them that to prevent a "Red threat" from Europe is far more important than "unnatural" alliance with Russians. So negotiations begin. The contragent from the American side - the head of American Secret service in Europe Allen Dalles, rabid anti-communist. Soviet intelligence learns about that. So Shtirlitz recieves an order from Moscow: his mission to break the Nazi-American negotiations by any means and keep the alliance. So it's the plot in the couple of words  ::  .

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## studyr

Master and Margarita torrent, subtitles. But I recommend to read the book first.

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## E-learner

> I'm watching first season of Sledge Hammer.
> Trust me. I know what I am doing.

 Another series of that kind: Get Smart. It's an old one. Also, they did a movie out of it recently.

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## devochka

> I started to watch Master & Margarita ... 
> .... While I have only finished part one, the opening theme song for Master & Margarita has caught my attention. Does anyone know what it is? Can anyone find it on YouTube, iTunes, Amazon or somewhere else for me? Lampada??? You are the music Queen of the boards... are you reading this thread these days??? Or is it a very famous song and all of ya'll know it right off the bat and can tell me?

 I'm watching it too! I've read the novel and a friend recommended I'd watch the series. I love the music but unfortunately it's nowhere to be found on CD. He has already asked numerous of his Russian friends but no luck yet.

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## Оля

The sound track for Bortko's film: http://www.tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158401 
Yuri Kara's film: http://www.tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23399

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## rockzmom

> If you don't mind, I'll try to put the plot a little more clear for tho[s:37bl84ui]u[/s:37bl84ui]se of you who didn't read the book.

 Basil,   
Thank you for all you hard work on that summary. I also found this site which seems to summarize the series episode by episode! http://www.sovlit.com/spies/17moments.html 
I love how they call it  

> "Works of Soviet Literature summarized for those unable or too lazy to read them in the original."

 They have many other Russian works on there as well, some only in Russian and some in English. So, for those of you practicing your Russian.... you can check it out as well!!! http://www.sovlit.com/sovlinks.html

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## rockzmom

> The sound track for Bortko's film: http://www.tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158401 
> Yuri Kara's film: http://www.tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23399

 
Olya!!! You are fantastic!!! #7 from for Bortko's film, "Into" is the one I was looking for. I have no idea any other information as the rest of the letters did not translate into English   ::  ; however, I at least have it now. If someone out there knows the informaiton about the song, please let me know. 
Thanks again!

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## Оля

> I have no idea any other information as the rest of the letters did not translate into English

 1 - Главная тема (2:11) The main theme
2 - Вальс на Балу (1:27) Waltz at the ball 
3 - Титры - 6 серия (1:29) Credits, the 6th part
4 - Титры - 7 серия (1:30) Credits, the 7th part
5 - Титры - 8 серия (1:35) Credits, the 8th part
6 - Посвящение Маргариты (4:06) Margarita's initiation
7 - Intro (2:00) ???
8 - Музыка к титрам (1:36) Credits music

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## Звездочёт

"The main theme (Voland’s hymn)" is eclectic set of three occult formulas: “Sator Arepo tenet opera rotas. Sator Arepo tenet opera rotas. Igne natura renovatur integra. Igne natura renovatur integra. INRI, INRI, Abracadabra, INRI, INRI. INRI, INRI, INRI, INRI, Abracadabra. INRI, INRI, Abracadabra, INRI, INRI. INRI, INRI, INRI, INRI, Abracadabra etc”

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## rockzmom

> Yuri Kara's film: http://www.tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23399

 
Olya!!! I misread your message! I did not realize you found the Yuri Kara's *film* as well. I read it as you had found the soundtrack to BOTH movies. I went to listen to the second soundtrack and was caught off guard by the page that appeared.  You are a great detective!  
Of course, now I must be a really big pain and ask if this comes with English subtitles or if I have to hunt them down?

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## Звездочёт

> 7 - Intro (2:00) ???

 "Introduction" (введение, вступление). 
It sounds better, but is shorter: 01. Вступление.mp3 (~3Mb) 
I can't find the text of this song. I know it bases on church liturgy (Великий пяток), but I hear only "нас сохрани" and can't find Psalter's text like this one.

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## devochka

> The sound track for Bortko's film: http://www.tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158401 
> Yuri Kara's film: http://www.tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23399

 
Спасибо большое!!!

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## Оля

> if this comes with English subtitles or if I have to hunt them down?

 The latter, I fear.   ::

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## Звездочёт

I was quite wrong when said: “is eclectic set…” Interesting, does author of this “song” realize fully, which archetypical wheels are put in motion by these formulas? The heart of the magic and Gnostic tradition is throbbing behind this “spell”. Was it author’s idea, or author was a tool of something? It’s exciting mystery.

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## rockzmom

> I was quite wrong when said: “is eclectic set…” Interesting, does author of this “song” realize fully, which archetypical wheels are put in motion by these formulas? The heart of the magic and Gnostic tradition is throbbing behind this “spell”. Was it author’s idea, or author was a tool of something? It’s exciting mystery.

 Звездочёт,  to the thread and MR! 
You know, I must admit, your first posting left my head spinning and now with your second posting, I feel (as I often do here on MR) undereducated. Terms like "archetypical wheels" and "Gnostic tradition" combined in a music review are lost on me.  
Can you (or maybe someone else) explain in "dumbed-down" English to a non-musically educated person what it is you are exactly trying to express? 
As for if the music was composed purposefully (with the intent that you are questioning); you would have to match it up with the scene from the movie to see how they fit together. Have you watched this version of M&M? If not, you can find links to it on page 13 of this thread and I also have seen there is now a version out on YouTube.

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## Звездочёт

I was excited when I was writing it, so “archetypical wheels” is more figurative than literal (also it's a mistake, I think, original: archetype’s wheels, wheels of an archetype). In this case it means (about) “forces”. The “Gnostic tradition” or “Gnosticism” is ancient philosophy, religion and mystic system. Gnosticism is “mother” of the Christianity, but the Gnostic tradition was given a status of heresy, and The Church eradicated it. Some Gnostic conceptions were saved by the occult philosophy and traditions (for examples, by occult cabbala). 
When I found the text of the “Main theme” (“Voland’s theme”, “Voland’s hymn”) I was thinking: “It’s the chaotic set of three occult formulas (SATOR, INRI, Abracadabra)”, but then I realized: “All of them point to cabbalistic name Jeshua”. I was shaken by this discovery much. 
So, It’s interesting for me: is It a coincidence or It’s author’s plan. I think first (some pointers are very subtle).

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## rockzmom

[quote=Звездочёт] 

> 7 - Intro (2:00) ???

 "Introduction" (введение, вступление). 
It sounds better, but is shorter: 01. Вступление.mp3 (~3Mb) 
I can't find the text of this song. I know it bases on church liturgy (Великий пяток), but I hear only "нас сохрани" and can't find Psalter's text like this one.[/quote:2vb6gg8u] 
Hi there Звездочёт, when I click on the link (or try to copy and paste it), I just go no where   ::   I get a blank page. Would mind reposting the link?  Thanks!

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## Звездочёт

> Hi there Звездочёт, when I click on the link (or try to copy and paste it), I just go no where  I get a blank page. Would mind reposting the link? Thanks!

 It's strange. Maybe cyrillic symbols prevent you.
What about it? Intro.mp3 
The full src: http://mp3forum.com.ua/showtopic81183.html

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## rockzmom

*Ah-ha! Cigarette update....* 
So, in Part 6 of “17,” Stirlitz is lighting his home fire place and actually uses a piece of kindling to light his cigarette!  
Now, Basil, as this one “of those female type” moments in the movie with Gabi and Frau Zaurrch having dinner at his home, I am certain this action by him of NOT using a match, was done in a moment of weakness and is a character flaw that was done in error because of....the female director!   ::

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  Hi there Звездочёт, when I click on the link (or try to copy and paste it), I just go no where  I get a blank page. Would mind reposting the link? Thanks!   It's strange. Maybe cyrillic symbols prevent you.
> What about it? Intro.mp3 
> The full src: http://mp3forum.com.ua/showtopic81183.html

 Звездочёт... thank you, the full link source worked.   ::  *devochka*, the full song (very long) from the opening is hidden within track 16, Буря (Storm) on Disk 1.

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## rockzmom

BTW... a new version of The Master and Margarita in the works???? 
This is actually over a YEAR old, but it is still listed on Stone Village's Web site as "in Development" and the lastest update on IMDb was 20 February 2009. 
From HollywoodReporter.com    *Stone Village has 'Master' plan* 
19 February 2008 
NEW YORK -- Satan comes to Earth in Mikhail Bulgakov's novel The Master and Margarita, and he will return to the big screen in the adaptation from Stone Village Pictures and producer Scott Steindorff.  
The Los Angeles-based production company has optioned the late Russian writer's once-banned book, an inspiration for Rolling Stones' Sympathy for the Devil, in a low- to mid-six figure against a low-seven figure deal.  
SVP president Steindorff will produce the film. SVP partners Chris Law, Danny Greenspun, Robin Greenspun and execs Scott Lastati and Dylan Russell will executive produce alongside Michael Lang. It's one of several SVP adaptations, including Love in the Time of Cholera and the upcoming True Believer. 
Master and Margarita begins in pre-WWII Moscow, where the devil appears as a mysterious man who insinuates himself into a literary crowd. Amid a series of deaths and disappearances, the devil brings together the title characters, a despairing novelist and his devoted but married lover. The story shifts to the setting of the master's rejected novel, Jerusalem in the time of Pontius Pilate, and then to a supernatural world where Satanic forces have taken over Margarita's life.

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## rockzmom

What does the expression "In this snow-blue world" mean?  
Is it the correct English translation for what is being said? It comes at the :40 mark in this scene from Part 7 of "17" 
btw.. I just finished part 9! It is gettting MUCH better as it goes on and easier to follow!   ::   
[video:edh4o3df]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfmNh2xIALc[/video:edh4o3df]

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## Basil77

> *Ah-ha! Cigarette update....* 
> So, in Part 6 of “17,” Stirlitz is lighting his home fire place and actually uses a piece of kindling to light his cigarette!  
> Now, Basil, as this one “of those female type” moments in the movie with Gabi and Frau Zaurrch having dinner at his home, I am certain this action by him of NOT using a match, was done in a moment of weakness and is a character flaw that was done in error because of....the female director!

 I was often told by my friends when we were sitting near the fire and I was lighting my cigarette from a lighter :"The one who light a cigarette from a lighter near a fire is a spy". I don't know how old this expression, but I can guess the logic of it. It's something like: "Only dumb westerners can do such things, they are overcivilized, they can't imagine their life without WC and toilet paper, and such an easy thing that you can use a fire to light a cigarette instead of lighter will never come to their minds".  Of course it's complete foolishness, but this is one of the many russian prejudices  about west like westerners believe in bears on the streets of russian cities  ::  . There is also some superstition about lighting a cigarette from matches or lighter near a fire. But I'm too lazy for that: you must find some stick first, then put it into the fire and wait while it start to burn and then use it with a risk to burn you eyebrows and eyelashes. I think that to put a hand into a pocket and use a lighter is far more easier.
 So you are right, in this case it was Stirlitz's weakness and he even could fail as a spy, because he demonstrated his russian nature.   ::     

> What does the expression "In this snow-blue world" mean?  
> Is it the correct English translation for what is being said?

 Translation is correct and literal. Stirlits is talking with the border gate officer and the border gate is located in Alpes, so it was much snow  around. And "blue" means that snow is very clear. You will see the snow when he will return here with pastor.

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by studyr  I'm watching first season of Sledge Hammer.
> Trust me. I know what I am doing.   Another series of that kind: Get Smart. It's an old one. Also, they did a movie out of it recently.

 Studyr, I never saw the Sledge Hammer series. Actually, I had to Google it!  1986-88, were my Florida to New York years and I worked the night shift then like "capecoddah" and did not watch much TV. You will have to let us all know how it is/was. As it only ran two years, my guess was it was not that popular. 
Now, Get Smart, I was just a little too young for it the first time around, but I saw a number of reruns and I did see the movie that came out in 2008. Funny, IMDb has listed for languages for the movie "English and Russian!" My girls REALLY liked it and it is always fun to take them to that kind of movie and see which one understands which jokes! 
As for the movie itself, there were errors in it with the location scenes in DC, which are always fun for me to find. You know, they were to be inside one building, yet when they come out of the elevator, they are in another building that the interior WOULD NOT be THAT building. Or they are driving and turn a corner and all of the sudden are on a street where in real life, they are nowhere near where they just were.   ::  What about the scenes that were shot in Russia? Any of those types of errors? 
BTW.... Same question for the Bourne series. How many location errors or other errors are in those movies?
... questions are open to anyone!

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## E-learner

*rockzmom*, does this headline ring any bells with you?   
You don't need to know anything about the event, all you need is to have seen a certain American movie, which I have every reason to believe you have.   ::

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## rockzmom

> *rockzmom*, does this headline ring any bells with you?   
> You don't need to know anything about the event, all you need is to have seen a certain American movie, which I have every reason to believe you have.

 I just woke up and had to read it three times BEFORE I got it... oh the shame.... 
Someone has a good sense of humor! 
------
BTW... EVERYONE! I have finally finished 17 Moments of Spring. 
I will try to write up my thoughts on it today or tomorrow!

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## rockzmom

*RUSSIAN MOVIE REVIEW* (long movie=long review=possible typos   ::  )  *“17 Moments of Spring”,* (Семнадцать мгновений весны) , 1973 
( Adventure/Drama/War/Spy)   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevente...ents_of_Spring 
(see page 13 of this thread for how to watch this movie either view download on Yandex or online at YouTube)  *Summary of movie Cheatsheet:* http://www.sovlit.com/spies/17moments.html 
Before I get to the actual review part, I have to provide you with some back-story here. For me, this film was VERY difficult to watch for a number of reasons.  The only history classes I took in college were two Early U.S. History (so up to and including U.S. Civil War) and that was when I was 17 years old.  This means, if I studied anything about WWII, it would have been in junior or senior high and that means...ages ago.  Remember my line… Find the biggest land mass and write USSR on it… it is not really meant to be a joke; it is the extent of my memory from European history class.  Operation Sunrise and Operation Crossword ("Sunrise Crossword" in the film) they have no meaning for me, no reference in my brain.  So, here I am starting to watch this film with almost no reference for any of these events.  For me, when I hear the name “Dulles” I think “Dulles Airport” as it is right near me and we use it all the time.  Secondly, this is a LONG piece of art to watch with subtitles (840 minutes).  Finally, everyone in my family bailed on me!  I ended up watching this on my own…yet I am sooooo very glad that I did and I want to thank everyone on this forum who posted answers to my questions and sent me PMs .  It meant a great deal to me to have your encouragement and willingness to hang in there WITH me while I watched this film.   ::     *So, what did I think of it???* 
I thought it was one of the best pieces of art I have ever seen. I tried my best to watch one episode a day or so as it was meant to be seen.  Not to rush through it like a marathon.  I would ponder what I had seen and then when I had time to really devote to the next episode, I would watch it.  
Ramil just posted a link to an article on another thread about how movies today spoon feed us everything and actors have to overact for us to understand the meaning of the script.  This movie is the exact opposite and I fear that there might never be a film like this again.  A remake of this would be done action adventure style, à la James Bond.  All of the long drawn out pauses where the characters are thinking and you are right there thinking along with them would be gone.  The tense moments where there is nothing but silence and the bombing in the background, would be replaced with a dramatic musical score and then high speed chase.  Stirlitz's almost lack of expression during the entire film, making it so the viewer has to think, “What is he feeling?”, “What is he plotting?” and we are not just being told this with words and facial expressions is marvelous and in a remake, would be made comical or eliminated.  Even Schellenberg at one point could not read Stirlitz stoic expression correctly;   

> Schellenberg “Why are you so angry with me?”
> Stirlitz – “Me? Angry?”
> Stirlitz – “I’m much gloomier when I am angry.” 
> Stirlitz – “I’m simply reflecting.”

 While this style is difficult to get used to at first (after all these years of mindless movies), the more I watched, the more I enjoyed and also the more I understood the plotline, the more I enjoyed. Of all the Russian movies I have watched, I believe this is the one where if I had a magic pill and I could understand Russian, this would have been the one I would have taken the pill for.  Because even a dubbing into English I do not believe would be the same.  I found myself turning up the volume to hear the actor’s voices even though everyone here knows, I can only understand about a dozen or so words… yet, I wanted to hear the inflection of their voices.  How they said the words I was reading in English on the screen.  I would go back and replay the screen after reading the words to hear how they match what I had read. How they paused or speed up or their tonal changes. 
The acting, I could not write enough about to say how wonderful I thought it was.  The smallest part to the largest role, each character seemed perfectly cast and executed their character with a precision that is not seen much these days.  Professor Pleischner, Pastor Schlag, Helmut, even the drunk woman in the bar at the end.  The young actors of today, on say Disney, should be strapped down and forced to watch this… as I said before it is art.  It is subtle not thrown in your face.   All the little character traits, the whole thing with the matchsticks (Basil), the chess game with Frau Saurich, the air raids – who ignored them and why. Even the narration was an addition and not a distraction. And to continue these characters and make you believe them for so long of a film, is amazing. I was very upset with what happened to some of the characters because I CARED about them and I don't want to give anything away, so I won't say any more about that. 
Also, I am assuming here, that was real footage intercut within the film. There was not too much or too little in the film and it only added to the production value.  To draw you in and make you suspend belief, as if you were there right along side Kathe in the storm drain or walking the rubbled streets with her. To have this entire film in black and white, IMHO was the CORRECT choice. It gave a feel to the film that color would just not give. To have it come to life as not just a some "docudrama" with color for the main part and then black and white for the historical bombing, scenes of destruction and air raids part. It would have felt "wrong." 
So, if you decide to watch this film, I do warn you… It is a labor of love to do so. It is LONG. It is difficult to follow if you don’t know the background players or your history.  It is hard to put your mind into the mode of non year 2009 action adventure spy movie. Yet, if you take it slow and steady, as it was meant to be, and savor each and every part of the movie, experience it - not gobble it down, you will not be disappointed.

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## Оля

> ...making it so the viewer has to think, “What is he feeling?”, “What is he plotting?” and we are not just being told this with words... 
> The smallest part to the largest role, each character seemed perfectly cast and executed their character with a precision that is not seen much these days. Professor Pleischner, Pastor Schlag, Helmut, even the drunk woman in the bar at the end. The young actors of today, on say Disney, should be strapped down and forced to watch this… as I said before it is art. It is subtle not thrown in your face.

 To be honest, I think that can be said about the majority of old Russian (Soviet) films. Maybe I am too patriotic.   ::   
I'm glad you liked this film, and first of all owing to the acting. I think it's the main virtue of the film. As for the plot, as I said before, I never was able to get it.   ::

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## rockzmom

Please note I have once again updated the Movie and Cartoon listing on page 13 of this thread.   
I have added the following movies: The Cranes are Flying[/*:m:17tmxxjr]The Lady with the Little Dog[/*:m:17tmxxjr]The Thief[/*:m:17tmxxjr]War and Peace[/*:m:17tmxxjr] 
Also added were: Link for Yuri Kara’s version of "The Master and Margarita"; however, this version is in RUSSIAN only. I have yet to find Enlgish subtitles.[/*:m:17tmxxjr]Music information for Bortko's version of "The Master and Margarita."[/*:m:17tmxxjr]Link for "Office Romance" (on YouTube); however, this version is in RUSSIAN only. I have yet to find Enlgish subtitles that will match up with the short little 10 minute segments. But at least it is a new link![/*:m:17tmxxjr]Summary cheat sheet for "17 Moments of Spring."[/*:m:17tmxxjr]Information about some of the Awards the movies have been nominated for or have won.[/*:m:17tmxxjr] 
[s:17tmxxjr]I have not had the chance to update the PDF version that is available for download yet. I&#39;ll try to get around to that soon.[/s:17tmxxjr]  I have uploaded it and here is the link... http://www.mediafire.com/?jwd1zkyhgro 
If anyone notices any errors or wants anything added to this list, please let me know!

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## CoffeeCup

> I would go back and replay the screen after reading the words to hear how they match what I had read. How they paused or speed up or their tonal changes. 
> The acting, I could not write enough about to say how wonderful I thought it was. The smallest part to the largest role, each character seemed perfectly cast and executed their character with a precision that is not seen much these days.

 There is a great conspiracy about the Soviet movies (I mean 60-80's, so I did not use "Russian"). There was the profession of a movie director, but there was no the profession of a movie actor (the profession in the sense of permanent occupation). People acting in a movie from time to time should also work somewhere for a regular salary. On the other hand a movie director when starting filming needs to hire actors, even more he wants to hire the best ones. So the conspiracy is how to meet the requirements of both the director and the actors. They found a solution – they went to the theaters. The actors went to the theaters for being theater actors and in this way get the experience and become the best ones, and of course salary – they get salary. The Directors went to the theaters to hire these best actors for their movies. So, most movies of that time are the movies where theater actors are acting. The theater actors brought the theater rules to the movies. The actors used to rehearse each scene, each head leaning, each eyebrow move a lot of times, because on the stage there is no a chance for the second take. So the movie acting became as fine art as for the theater. 
P.S. All I said above is the only my simple-minded opinion. I don't know facts, records or something else which can confirm or deny this conspiracy.

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## rockzmom

RUSSIAN MOVIE REVIEW 
“The Return”, (Возвращение), 2003
(Drama) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_(2003_film) 
Awards
Nominated, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 2004 Golden Globes (Hollywood Foreign Press Association)
Winner, 'CinemAvvenire' Award (Best Film), Golden Lion, Luigi De Laurentiis Award, SIGNIS Award, and Sergio Trasatti Award, at the 2003 Venice Film Festival 
(see page 13 of this thread for how to watch this movie either view download on Yandex or online at YouTube) 
Well, I believe it was Ski-Ops, back on *January 8th* who first recommended “The Return” and then gRomoZeka and Winifred both agreed.  I started to watch it last night and finished it this morning! _(Winifred, I also see from digging through my notes that I missed “Burnt By the Sun” I will start searching for an English Subtitle version and add it to my next update movie list.)_ 
Now, I must agree with Olya that this film does have a much different feel to it than all of the others I have seen and I think she is correct that it has an “Italian” or maybe even “French” style to it.  The awards given to this film I believe were much deserved. The acting, especially by the two young boys was amazing.   
As I knew while watching the film that Vladimir Garin, who played Andrei, had died soon after the filming of this movie and I watched it with the eye of a person thinking, “What kind of an actor could this young man have turn out to be?” "If he continued in this career, how far could he have gone?"  His facial expressions and body language during the film were right on the mark while Ivan’s, I found at times were a little forced. The father’s hostility and rage, sometimes just on the edge of explosive and then at the end, a small sliver of caring is shown. Enough to make you believe that he does indeed have a heart and soul and deep down cares for his two sons; yet, he does not know how to express his feelings.  He plays the character as if something is haunting him. 
The beautiful scenery and landscape locations were breathtaking and according to IMDb it was filmed in Russia at  Ladoga Lake and Gulf of Finland.  So, for me to see locations like these is something I would most likely never have an opportunity to do so. And to have them shot with different natural lighting, at morning, noon and dusk, providing an array of color palettes (and yet most of the film is void of bright colors as well as other people and extras) is an added bonus.  I was also provided an opportunity to see places of Russia I never would have known existed. 
My only complaint about the film… *WHAT WAS IN THE BOX????* They go to all the trouble of showing the father digging up the “buried” treasure, taking the box out of the “treasure box” and then (unless I missed something here) we “the viewer” and the boys, never find out what it was. So, if anyone knows… please tell me.

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## BappaBa

> My only complaint about the film… *WHAT WAS IN THE BOX????* They go to all the trouble of showing the father digging up the “buried” treasure, taking the box out of the “treasure box” and then (unless I missed something here) we “the viewer” and the boys, never find out what it was. So, if anyone knows… please tell me.

 Imho, the same stuff was in Pulp Fiction's case. =)

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## rockzmom

> Imho, the same stuff was in Pulp Fiction's case. =)

 BappaBa,  I desperately need your HELP… (or anyone else as, I know you are one of few words) 
I have stated before that I am not a film snob.  Just the opposite, I am a lover of films – all films and almost all genres, not just the classics or foreign; even some of the inept Disney Channel ones.   ::   
LOVE THEM ALL:  
Lara Croft Tomb Raider (#1), Inkheart, The Princess Bride, The Sixth Sense, The Matrix, The Breakfast Club, Girl Interrupted, Kate & Leopold, Mr. & Mrs. Smith, Little Miss Sunshine, Pirates of the Caribbean, Shrek(#1), Stargate, all of the Hayao Miyazaki's films, "Olya's" The Search for John Gissing, and even The Rocky Horror Picture Show     *BUT…FOR THE LIFE OF ME, I DID NOT UNDERSTAND… PULP FICTION!!!!* 
Please, I beg of you, would you explain this film to me and why it was sooooo popular???? I just did not get this film AT ALL!  ::   
Do I just need to try watching it again??? 
I will be away for a few days; however, maybe I will have one of my daughters log in as me and check for any replies and post follow-up questions for me.  ::

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## Basil77

I just made the English subs for an old Soviet cartoon. It's my first expirience, so please don't judge too strict... 
[video:1d92atrw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bi7qXFWrD8[/video:1d92atrw]

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## Basil77

Well, here is another brilliant cartoon (with English subs, although they are not so necessary) by Fyodor Hitruk (maker of Winnie-The-Pooh series), it's about movie-making process. I just love it, especially little girl scene and "murder" scene   ::  :  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfwm7bMTKCM  part 1  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moQkOXrLoqU   part 2 
P.S. Lampada, sorry for another reposting   ::

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## rockzmom

Basil.. thanks for the postings. I will take a look at them this week and about thte one you did the subtitles for, I'll give you feedback for anything I see wrong with the English spelling or wording that does not seem correct; however, as you know.... I really will not be much help with correct translation.

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## rockzmom

Your   needed! 
I have seen a small trend lately where new people skip over this thread and start a new thread when wanting to know about Russian films. Additionally, the original purpose of this thread has changed.   
So, while on my little “vacation” my daughter and I brained stormed about a new title for this thread so it better reflects what we actually talk about in here.  It was a little of a challenge as we discuss more than Russian based "entertainment."  While Russian *IS* the main part, we have hit upon other countries. So, I don’t want someone to think we *ONLY* discuss Russian stuff in here as some of our chats have been very interesting that were NOT based upon Russian materials.  
Here is what we came up:
Movies/TV Shows/Books: Russian & Non- Discussed Here!
Movies/TV Shows/Books: Russian & Non- Found Here!
Movies/TV Shows/Books: Russian & Non- Look Here!   ::  So, what are your thoughts on changing the title of this thread?  ::  IF you think we should change the title, what do you think we should change it to so that a newbie would go to this thread if they were looking for information about things we talk about?   ::  Suggestions are most welcomed!

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## CoffeeCup

> So, while on my little “vacation” my daughter and I brained stormed about a new title for this thread so it better reflects what we actually talk about in here. It was a little of a challenge as we discuss more than Russian based "entertainment." While Russian IS the main part, we have hit upon other countries. So, I don’t want someone to think we ONLY discuss Russian stuff in here as some of our chats have been very interesting that were NOT based upon Russian materials. 
> Here is what we came up:
> Movies/TV Shows/Books: Russian & Non- Discussed Here!
> Movies/TV Shows/Books: Russian & Non- Found Here!
> Movies/TV Shows/Books: Russian & Non- Look Here!   So, what are your thoughts on changing the title of this thread?

 *The silver screen: What does it shed on us? (Russian vs world movies)* 
I've omitted the books as there were only few which were talked about. May be the books is a good theme for a self-contained thread.

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## rockzmom

> Well, here is another brilliant cartoon (with English subs, although they are not so necessary) by Fyodor Hitruk (maker of Winnie-The-Pooh series), it's about movie-making process. I just love it, especially little girl scene and "murder" scene   :  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfwm7bMTKCM  part 1  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moQkOXrLoqU   part 2 
> P.S. Lampada, sorry for another reposting

 BASIL!!!  Film Film Film - Фильм, Фильм, Фильм!  
I watched it with the girls and it was wonderful especially since it is our background we were one step ahead of each joke and were guessing what was going to happen and laughing real laughs at the problems as we have encountered them ourselves in real life (well, not a bull; but, rain on set just this month!).  
It is no wonder this animation short won three awards! And yes, the little girl scene was VERY cute. Thank you for posting this and I will add it to the list. Two big   ::

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## rockzmom

*RUSSIAN MOVIE REVIEW*  *"The Thief"* (Вор, Vor), 1997
(Drama) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thief_(1997_film)
(see page 13 of this thread for how to watch this movie either view download on Yandex or online at YouTube)  *Awards*
Nominated, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1998 Oscars (Academy Awards, USA)
Nominated, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1998 Golden Globes (Hollywood Foreign Press Association)
Winner, Best Actor (Vladimir Mashkov), Best Actress (Yekaterina Rednikova), Best Director (Pavel Chukhraj), Best Film
& Best Music at the 1998 Nika Awards (Russia)
Winner, Prize of the International Youth Jury, The President of the Italian Senate's Gold Medal, and UNICEF Award, at the 1997 Venice Film Festival
Winner, Best Young Performer in a Foreign Film (Misha Philipchuk), at the 1998 Young Artist Awards (Los Angeles, Ca)  *Review*
So, while I was on “vacation” I only watched ONE film and this was the one I watched.  I thought, with all these awards, it must be really, really, spectacular and it was not that long of a film so… this was the one I picked to start to watch and it turned out to be the only one.   
Unfortunately, I must say, I was disappointed. Maybe because I was expecting too much from the film. I can see why it won for the Youth Awards, young Misha did do an amazing job of acting; yet, it was still not enough for me to go “Wow, this is a film I have to recommend someone seeing!” especially after seeing so many other Russian films now.  Maybe I am spoiled?  It was not that the film was bad nor was it great; it was just okay. The story line, the other actors, the cinematography, they were all … okay. Nothing spectacular for me to get all excited about.  There was nothing there that made me want to get someone and say, “You have got to see this, watch this scene.” 
Am I spoiled or jaded now?  Or did this movie just get lucky and was released during a slow year for foreign films and maybe that was the reason it go so many awards?   ::  Who else has watched this film? What did you think of it?

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## Оля

I saw that film, even more than once, and I think it is quite good. For me, its main merit is that it conveys the postwar atmosphere, and also the acting which I find very good - maybe it's not fantastic, I just haven't thought about it, but it _is_ good (at least it's better than acting, say, in "12", he he   ::  )
I, too, can't say that there was something in this film that would make me get someone and say, "You have to see this!"... But I think it's one of the best _post-USSR_ films. After the breakup of the USSR, many of first "new Russian" films were really bad. I actually think that there are still very few of good modern Russian films.

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## rockzmom

> I saw that film, even more than once.

 More than once? You always amaze me Olya!   

> good (at least it's better than acting, say, in "12", he he   )

 And... you always find a way to make me smile!  ::    
Okay... for my next film... I think it will be *"Burnt by the Sun"* as I have a copy of from the library so I need to watch it and return it soon.  It won the 1994 Academy Award for best Foreign Film and the Cannes Grand Jury Prize.    ::  Am I going to be disappointed?

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## CoffeeCup

> Unfortunately, I must say, I was disappointed.

 I started to watch Chukhrai's "Thief" when it was released and turned it off after ten or fifteen minutes. So, there is one more thumb down for this movie.   

> For me, its main merit is that it conveys the postwar atmosphere

 I can't say that this movie is very close to the postwar atmosphere because I was not born yet in the late 40's and I can't remember the postwar atmosphere.   

> Am I going to be disappointed?

 My experience in seeing Mikhalkov's "Burnt by the sun" is very close to that of "Thief" I've turned it off after ten or fifteen minutes. When Mikhalkov's "12" was released and I've seen the movie trailer I even haven't tried to watch it. So, there are two thumbs down for Mikhalkov's movies. Mikhalkov puts too many his self-invented "Russian life philosophy" in his movies that stops me of watching his movies. 
But when he was younger and was not tied by his "philosophy" he performed some really good stuff. If we go back in to 1974 we can dig out "At Home Among Strangers, Stranger at Home" ("Свой среди чужих, чужой среди своих"). IMDB Wiki 
The phenomenon of the "At Home Among Strangers ..." in Russia can be compared to the phenomenon of "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" in US.  

> It has strong parallels in some ways with Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid in its look, period setting, and strong action sequences, which are still famous in Russia, involving literal cliffhangers, white water rafting, chases on horseback, holding up trains etc.

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## Оля

> Originally Posted by Оля  I saw that film, even more than once.   More than once? You always amaze me Olya!

 I didn't watch it intentionally, but it's just that this movie is sometime shown on TV  ::  (like many other Russian movies). 
As for "Burnt by the Sun", I think I can't say anything about it, although probably I have seen it not once, too (the latter time it was long ago, anyway). Maybe it is a good movie, but it didn't touch me at all. I don't know why. I remember the last scene, and it is powerful - Mikhalkov plays how his character turns from a strong, confident man into a completely crushed person in some seconds, and I understand it is a good acting and a good scene. But I still... am not a fan of this film, and I remember the plot very bad. Also, I agree with CoffeeCup about Mikhalkov's former and later films. I especially love his "Five Evenings", and "At Home Among Strangers, Stranger at Home", too.

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## kamka

> Please, I beg of you, would you explain this film to me and why it was sooooo popular????

 May I just answer that, as my ex boyfriend was pretty much obsessed with this movie   ::  Apparently, it was one of the first that sort of movies ever made, and its genius is, paradoxically, its kitsch (hence the name) and the fact that Tarantino was somehow inspired by class B, or even C movies (you can see some of the scenes intentionally looking as if taken from such - like the scene when they're driving a car and there's this picture on a picture - I know it sounds bizarre, but you'll understand once you see it, can't really explain it in a better way).
Also, the dialagoues were the movie's strong part and gave a kind of insight into American's pop-culture.
Did it have any message, or a lesson? Not entirely sure - some claim it's the way accidents can affect your life, then again I think that kind of message could be applied to any movie ever made.
To some extend, it's just a pastiche and it should be seen as such, I think. I wouldn't call the movie genius, I liked it, but don't try to read too much into it. To me, it's pretty much an action movie, somewhat different and fresh (well, it was back then), and perhaps that's what we owe its popularity to.   ::

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## Basil77

Well, about Chukhrai's "Thief", I.M.H.O. it's a qualitative piece of work, but nothing more. I saw it once, and it was enough for me. Same about Mikhalkov's "Burned by the Sun". The same odd piece of crafts made specially for film festivals and so. Rockmom, if you want to see a really good movie with the post-war background, I recommend you "A meeting place can't be changed" series by Stanislav Govorukhin. Vladimir Vysotsky, a cult figure of the late-Soviet period played one of the main roles there. I.M.H.O it's one of the best Vysotsky's cinema roles, so the series are worth seeing only for that reason.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImeK_EUu314 
(birubir uploaded whole series on youtube, it's only a link to the first part of the first episode).

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## Оля

> Well, about Chukhrai's "Thief", I.M.H.O. it's a qualitative piece of work, but nothing more

 I agree. 
Also, I second the recommendation to watch "A meeting place can't be changed". I've recommended it to Rokzmom in this thread already, and I wish to repeat that again!  ::

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by Basil77  Well, about Chukhrai's "Thief", I.M.H.O. it's a qualitative piece of work, but nothing more   I agree. 
> Also, I second the recommendation to watch "A meeting place can't be changed". I've recommended it to Rokzmom in this thread already, and I wish to repeat that again!

 I am in the process of downloading it from the Russian Yandex-server   ::   
For anyone else who may be interested in watching this movie, here is the information about the movie and intructions on how to download: 
"*The Meeting Place Cannot Be Changed*" (Место встречи изменить нельзя, Mesto vstrechi izmenit nelzya), 1979
(Adventure, Crime, Mystery, Action)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mee...not_Be_Changed 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy. 
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links: 
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/8035702000/Meet...art-1.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/8036856000/Meet...art-2.avi.html
Part 3: http://narod.ru/disk/8037731000/Meet...art-3.avi.html
Part 4: http://narod.ru/disk/8038736000/Meet...art-4.avi.html
Part 5: http://narod.ru/disk/8034737000/Meet...art-5.avi.html 
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy.
Part 1 file size 577 mb
Part 2 file size 661 mb
Part 3 file size 555 mb
Part 4 file size 572 mb
Part 5 file size 681 mb

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## rockzmom

> The same odd piece of crafts made specially for film festivals and so.

 Basil... Interesting choice of words or expression... "made specially for film festivals." I meet so many people who have no clue that there is a difference between films that are made for public consumption and those that are not. I guess it just shows how much you love films. 
Have you heard about what is going on in Australia right now with their big film festival? Makes you sort of want to see "The 10 Conditions of Love," don't it?   

> http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... index.html
> By Saeed Ahmed 
> (CNN) -- Hackers repeatedly attacked the Web site of Australia's largest film festival Saturday, asking organizers to apologize to the Chinese people for planning to screen a documentary on an exiled Uyghur leader. 
> The attacks were carried out on the opening day of the Melbourne International Film Festival -- in what organizers are calling the third phase of a "concerted campaign" to withdraw the film "The 10 Conditions of Love." 
> The documentary examines the impact on the family of activist Rebiya Kadeer as she fights for greater autonomy of the ethnic minority group, the Uyghurs, in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in China's northwest. 
> Kadeer is the president of the World Uyghur Congress, made up of exiled Uyghurs. China accuses the group of inciting riots in the region this month that killed more than 200 people and wounded more than 1,000. 
> "The first stage was the local Chinese embassy asking us to withdraw the film," festival director Richard Moore said Sunday. "The second was to find a way for other Chinese films to withdraw from the festival -- five did so. We believe that this is probably not the end of it." 
> Organizers have also been "bombarded" with threatening e-mails, Moore said. Watch Moore discuss the harassment » 
> "I couldn't repeat the language even if I tried," he said. "Lots of f-words and c-words, calling us racists, haters of Chinese people." 
> ...

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## rockzmom

So, what would YOU bid on??? The spaceship from "Twilight Zone" and "Men in Black 2"?? OR the giant champagne glass??   *Hollywood slump puts famous props on the block* 
By Alan Duke
CNN
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Harvey Schwartz spent the past 40 years collecting antiques, art and odd items that he rented to TV and movie studios as props and set decorations. 
During a tour of his huge North Hollywood, California, warehouse, Schwartz, owner of 20th Century Props, opened a morgue vault door, revealing the legs of a crusty corpse, built for the "X-Files" TV series. 
"Fun piece," he said with a smile. "Love the sound effects." 
Schwartz must now sell everything -- including a submarine, a fake nuclear warhead and Austin Powers' cryogenic chamber -- at auction because of a dramatic decline in Hollywood productions over the past year. Watch a tour of the prop warehouse » 
"I guess it would be the end of Hollywood as I know it and for everyone, because there won't be any place to get all these products again," Schwartz said. 
While 2009 has been a good year at the box office, more production is leaving Los Angeles for states that offer tax incentives unmatched by California. 
"It's very, very tough," said Jack Kyser, economist for the Los Angeles Economic Development Commission. "If you are doing feature film production, you are probably going to go out of state because 44 other states have been offering incentives for feature film productions. California just started their incentive program." 
With companies spending less on advertising in a down economy, broadcast TV is suffering and people who make commercials have less work, Kyser said. 
The writers' strike last year and the stalled actors union contract talks added to the slowdown, and it's getting even tougher for struggling young actors and writers pursuing their Hollywood dreams, he said. 
"We have a slang phrase: 'There's a lot of WAMs out there: waiters, actors, models'," Kyser said. "And if you go to restaurants you see the wait staff is looking better and better all the time, physically." 
Stephon Fuller, an actor who moved to Los Angeles 11 years ago, said, "It's never been this quiet for me." Still, Fuller said he expected auditions for new roles to pick up later in the summer. 
On-location film shoots dropped 25 percent overall in the first half of the year, including a 50 percent loss in feature film production in Los Angeles, according to a group that helps process filming permits. 
"If you are doing a feature film you have to rent equipment, you have to rent props," Kyser said "If you go out on location you have to rent a truck to take you there, you have to have a location caterer, and all these people are feeling the pain." 
Schwartz, 67, started suffering last year with a 40 percent drop in business, and it has gotten worse in recent months. 
"I just can't hold on any longer," he said. "I've run out of money." 
An auctioneer will begin the long process of selling everything Tuesday morning. 
"I talk lightly that I have 93,752 pieces under this roof, but it doesn't really strike a note until you start putting a little auction lot number on each piece or a bunch of pieces." 
Potential bidders have registered from dozens of countries, and hundreds are expected to show up at the warehouse, Schwartz said. 
Visitors can be overwhelmed by what they see in Schwartz' warehouse. 
The largest item on the block is a 162-foot-long submarine built for "Down Periscope," a 1996 comedy starring Kelsey Grammer. It's not seaworthy -- since it actually never left a movie sound stage -- and it will be an expensive job moving it. 
Complete with torpedoes, it has been used in several TV productions in recent years, Schwartz said. 
The nuclear warhead John Travolta used in his 1996 film "Broken Arrow" will also be sold, along with the cryogenic tube used to preserve the Mike Myers character in "Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery," an identical tube that housed a frozen Gary Coleman and Dr. Evil's escape egg. See photos of the items up for auction » 
Fans of Beyonce can bid on the giant champagne glass the singer bathed in for her "Naughty Girl" music video in 2003. The inventory also includes a large drill used by Ben Affleck and Bruce Willis in the 1998 film "Armageddon." 
A spaceship built in 1959 for a "Twilight Zone" episode and used in Will Smith's "Men in Black 2" hangs in the warehouse. 
Schwartz is also selling the metal chair used to strap down a naked Natasha Henstridge in an unforgettable scene from the movie "Species." 
Schwartz has also collected thousands of pieces of vintage furniture, including art deco bedroom sets and office desks that were used on movie sets. 
Schwartz, who wrote a book about rattan furniture, points with pride to a set made famous by its weekly exposure on the "Golden Girl's." Nearby is a rattan chair seen with Marlon Brando in "The Godfather." 
Schwartz has an endless selection of vintage lamps, scones and chandeliers -- including those made for "Titanic." 
"Yeah, it's all going to be sold to collectors," he said. "This is the first time in 60 years that Hollywood has had a big sale like this, where they've dissipated Hollywood props to all parts of the planet." 
Schwartz shakes his head, wondering how studios will find their props if and when production gears up again in Hollywood.

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## CoffeeCup

> So, what would YOU bid on??? The spaceship from "Twilight Zone" and "Men in Black 2"?? OR the giant champagne glass?? *Hollywood slump puts famous props on the block*

 Hi, Rockzmom! Do they sell the Wonka vision equipment? We would cooperate with you to try to set it up working! I am still dreaming about the cream puffs.  ::

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## CoffeeCup

In the thread about the music what we hear somebody mentioned the track "Belmondo rulez" which is a tribute to the famous French actor Jean-Paul Belmondo. The track is based on the sample from the soundtrack to the movie "Le Professionel" featuring Jean-Paul Belmondo. For many Russians Jean-Paul Belmondo is as lovely actor as the super best Russian actors are. He is adored by Russians as if he were Russian himself. Everything he does on the silver screen is believed to be magic. One more French actor of the same popularity in Russia is Pierre Richard.  ::  Are these actors known in US, and if they are, how big their popularity is?

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  So, what would YOU bid on??? The spaceship from "Twilight Zone" and "Men in Black 2"?? OR the giant champagne glass?? *Hollywood slump puts famous props on the block*   Hi, Rockzmom! Do they sell the Wonka vision equipment? We would cooperate with you to try to set it up working! I am still dreaming about the cream puffs.

 What a fantastic idea! Then I could try some of your foods as well! Or you could just send me boxes and boxes of chocolates and they would never melt  ::

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## ekaterinak

I've read "P.S., I love you" by Ahern Cecelia. It is very wonderful book.  The book's subject is grievous, but it was described very witty and funny. I would say that this book about  a hope and a life.
I like this quotation "Целься в луну! Даже если промахнешься - попадешь в звезды"/"Aim at the moon! Even if you miss, you will hit into the stars."  ::

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## Fish without pantie

> I've read "P.S., I love you" by Ahern Cecelia. It is very wonderful book.  The book's subject is grievous, but it was described very witty and funny. I would say that this book about  a hope and a life.
> I like this quotation "Целься в луну! Даже если промахнешься - попадешь в звезды"/"Aim at the moon! Even if you miss, you will hit into the stars."

 I don't read this book, but I saw that film. And I think it's no funny, but it's a stupid. Sorry.

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by ekaterinak  I've read "P.S. I love you" by Ahern, Cecelia. It is very wonderful book.  The book's subject is [s:1ttkehto]grievous[/s:1ttkehto] about grief and losing someone; but, it was described as very witty and funny. I would say that this book is about  [s:1ttkehto]a[/s:1ttkehto] hope and [s:1ttkehto]a[/s:1ttkehto] life.
> I like this quotation "Целься в луну! Даже если промахнешься - попадешь в звезды"/"Aim at the moon! Even if you miss, you will hit into the stars."    I [s:1ttkehto]don&#39;t[/s:1ttkehto] didn't read this book[s:1ttkehto],[/s:1ttkehto]; but, I saw [s:1ttkehto]that[/s:1ttkehto] the film. And I think it[s:1ttkehto]&#39;s no[/s:1ttkehto] wasn't funny[s:1ttkehto],[/s:1ttkehto]; but, it[s:1ttkehto]&#39;s a[/s:1ttkehto] was actually stupid. Sorry.

 Fish without pantie, welcome to MasterRussian and the thread! 
We have had a number of "chats" about books and how well or not so well they do as movies. It is always difficult to turn a book into a film.  
I have not had the opportunity to read "P.S. I Love You" or see the film. I see from IMDb that the "Plot line" for the movie is "A young widow discovers that her late husband has left her 10 messages intended to help ease her pain and start a new life." Additionally, the film won an Audience award for Best International Actress at the 2008 Irish Film and Television Awards and was nominated for the 2008 Teen Choice Award for "Chick Flick." This might give people a better idea about the film and the target audience of the film! 
As for the book, it has recieved a number of good reviews for Ms. Ahern's debut novel. She has now written seven books.  
BTW, for those of you who watch American TV, Ms. Ahern is the co-creator and producer for the comedy "Samantha Who?" which stars the very grown up Christina Applegate, who was Kelly Bundy on "Married... with Children."

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## ekaterinak

> I don't read this book, but I saw that film. And I think it's no funny, but it's a stupid. Sorry.

 First of all, do you know that film can show only director’s opinion and the books are very often better than movie? Second, read the book. Third, you should learn to read between lines. Fourth, if that book was stupid it would not be translated into 40 languages. 
Sorry.  ::  
Да... и не забывай одевать pantie в людном месте, рыбка!!!

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## rockzmom

I know. I have been neglecting the Russian movies again. Bad me.  I have several of them downloaded and just crying out to me to watch them and yet, like step children locked in a closet they go unattended yet not unnoticed.  I will unlock them soon and set them free, I promise. 
I will however let you all know what I have been watching lately and tell you all, that if you want to really learn and hear how American’s speak and get a quick lesson in American culture, this is the TV show for you… Gilmore Girls.  I never watched this series while it was on the air for 7, yes 7, years.  older daughter found it this summer while “we” were in the hospital as it was on twice a day and now she has three of the four women in this household hooked on it (the man in the household claimed it was too much talking).  And as it is on every day, twice a day (the one at 11 a.m. is a repeat from the 5 p.m. of the day before. So, if you happen to miss one day, you can just watch it the next and be caught up), it makes it easy to watch and the series goes very quickly. We are already into season 3! 
For those of you who have not heard of the series, it is about a single mom and her daughter (yet there are plenty of men folk as well).  The two main characters along with their friends and family talk endlessly during the one hour show in run-on sentences with references to popular culture, specifically about music, literature, movies and TV (my favorite topics). The relationships between all of the characters are actually REAL.  The fighting that goes on between the single mom and her parents is not watered down. The teenage girl and her troubles fitting in at the preppy school and the difficulties she has with her boyfriend who is not up to the standards of other people.  The townsfolk and all their well-meaning comments that really aren’t well-meaning.  The show is real life and real language, not the usual stupid scripts that you see on sitcoms. Yet, it has a great deal of warmth and humor. As I said, it is real life. 
So, while it may be difficult to keep up with the fast paced 90 miles per hour dialogue in this series, I do highly recommend it if you want to practice your English listening skills, add to your English vocabulary and pick up on “real life” Americana.  
Also, Time Magazine rated the series as one of the top 100 television shows of all time.  ::   
Here are some links where you can find episodes online: http://www.yidio.com/show/gilmore-girls http://www.thewb.com/shows/gilmore-girl ... 7d1ba1a922 
Here is a link to scripts http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/gilmoregirls/

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## devochka

I love Gilmore Girls! It's back on here in Belgium (rerun of season 4). I love the talking, the references (and the fact I seem to grasp most of those references) and, indeed, the real relationships between the characters. I see myself in Rory and would love to be a bit more like Lorelai. Are small towns really like that in the US? I mean the mentality, the town meetings, ...   
Now back to Russian movies and books. Has anyone here seen the series Небо и земля (Sky and earth)? I got it from a friend because it's about flight attendants and pilots (I'm a flight attendant so he thought I'd like it) but I was wondering if this is a known or even popular series in Russia. I actually quite enjoy watching it. 
And I mentioned books so: Anyone read anything by Liudmila Ulitskaya? I'm reading Казус Кукотского now. Just reached part 2. I like her style.

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## rockzmom

> I love Gilmore Girls! It's back on here in Belgium (rerun of season 4). I love the talking, the references (and the fact I seem to grasp most of those references) and, indeed, the real relationships between the characters. I see myself in Rory and would love to be a bit more like Lorelai. Are small towns really like that in the US? I mean the mentality, the town meetings, ...

 I will tell you that older daughter and I also get a cheap thrill when we get the references too!  ::  
Small town meetings, well you don't even have to go small town to see meetings like that.. try ANY "PTA" (Parent Teacher Association) those meetings are vicious. Meow! Claws out! Picture a grown up version of Paris being the President of a parent run meeting for Chilton and trying to get anything you want done or suggesting anything else that she does not like! It is all backstabbing, who knows who and likes who! They all gang up on you like they did with Luke about Jess. They will change the time, the rules, anything to get *their* way!    

> Now back to Russian movies and books. Has anyone here seen the series Небо и земля (Sky and earth)? I got it from a friend because it's about flight attendants and pilots (I'm a flight attendant so he thought I'd like it) but I was wondering if this is a known or even popular series in Russia. I actually quite enjoy watching it. 
> And I mentioned books so: Anyone read anything by Liudmila Ulitskaya? I'm reading Казус Кукотского now. Just reached part 2. I like her style

 Wow! You're a flight attendant!!! How cool!! You should start a thread and post photos and maps of where you travel (make us all jealous hehehe). But seriously, I would love to see photos of places you get to go, so think about it! Being a flight attendant was on my list of things I wanted to be in life and got crossed off because back in the stone age when I was younger, they had those height restrictions and I was too tall! I think they have raised them or changed them now.

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## rockzmom

I don't know how many of you are old enough to remember, or might have seen the original 1980 movie "Fame." This September, a remake of that movie is coming out.  I have very mixed feelings about the remake as I do remember seeing the original in the movie theater with my then best friend. While I know it _can_ be easily remade, my fear is that they will have too much glitz and not enough talent in this version. The 1980 version, Irene Cara was nominated for the Golden Globe Award for Best Actress.  
I rewatched the 1980 version last weekend with my girls   ::  I had forgotten how much off color language and the topless scenes were in there! The film showed the REAL life of acting and performing arts school. The school was run down (just like my daughter's school is today - the girls got a kick out of that) yet had the passion of teachers to make it the "golden ticket" of schools. From the trailer of the new movie, there are over the top production numbers that just don't happen at these schools due to lack of money and the fact that it is not what the schools are about. Maybe they are just showing "those" scenes in the trailer to draw in the crowds and the overall movie will be more realistic. 
With that said, I am certain the movie will do well in the box office because this type of movie is "in" right now and some of the kids are from Disney. 
If you want to watch the 1980 version, here are the links to the one I watched: http://www.zshare.net/video/637954323c1a6f50/ part 1 http://www.zshare.net/video/6379546125955a43/ part 2 http://www.zshare.net/video/6379546125955a43/ part 3 
Below are the trailers from the 1980 movie and the new 2009 version:
[video:18hb7676]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51g-cS7nYUY[/video:18hb7676] 
[video:18hb7676]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRPca0Lvp1w[/video:18hb7676]

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## Hanna

*Wow this thread is FANTASTIC for Russian film tips!*
--------------
Haha, rockzmom -- I remember the Fame series!    :: 
It run for many years and I probably missed the first few years. All the episodes had a little "moral story" in true American style... Can't remember any of it at all though, apart from the cool black dancer who was always in trouble. *"You want fame?? But fame costs..."* 
(I really don't think a lot of people in Russia have seen it though! ) 
The other great American series of the same time that I remember is "The Little House on the Praire."

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## rockzmom

> *Wow this thread is FANTASTIC for Russian film tips!*

 As I mentioned, this started as one thing and then turned into a fantastic resource and mix mash sort of free-for- all about movies/TV and books.    

> The other great American series of the same time that I remember is "The Little House on the Praire."

 Little House on the Prairie, another series I did not watch   :: . I know it was VERY good and I am now trying to remember why it was I never watched it. It ran from 1974 to 1983, so I am guessing that when it first came on that since my parents did not watch it, I did not as we only had the one main TV set in the house when I was a kid.

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## rockzmom

Question.... Are there IMAX movie theaters in Russia (or wherever you happen to live) and if so how many of them are there? What about regular 3D movie theaters?  I am asking because overall I think there are only about 400 IMAX total in the world; however, near me because of being close to Washington/Baltimore, there are seven of them.  
This article about the future of film points out that in 15 years, 3D may be the format of most if not all films, yet the problem is that most theaters today can't handle the format.  
The film that they are talking about, "Avatar" sounds amazing!  (not to be confused with M. Night Shyamalan's "The Last Airbender" coming out in 2010)  
Here is a trailer for "Avatar" http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi2804482585/   

> CNN[/url]] 
> LONDON, England (CNN) -- Director James Cameron is today unveiling a 15-minute taster of his hotly-anticipated 3D sci-fi blockbuster "Avatar" to sold-out audiences in selected cinemas across the world. 
> Those who snapped up a ticket to the event that has been dubbed "Avatar Day" will be privy to footage of the much-hyped, technically-advanced 3D science fiction epic that some are saying will revolutionize the way we watch movies.  
> The Oscar-winning director is famous for pushing the boundaries of technology in film and has long been an enthusiastic proponent of 3D technology. "Avatar" is the fruition of his long-held ambition to combine digital 3D with epic big screen storytelling.  
> "The 3D is going to be mind-boggling," David Cohen of film industry trade magazine Variety told CNN. "He may indeed be pushing 3D to another level." 
> Fueling the hype is the fact that "Avatar" is Cameron's first film since "Titanic" in 1997 -- the most successful film of modern times -- and a return to sci-fi for the "Aliens" and "Terminator" series director. 
> Set on the lush and magical jungle planet of Pandora, the story takes place against the backdrop of a war between invading humans and Pandora's native species, the Na'vi.  
> Sam Worthington stars as a former Marine paralyzed from the waist down offered the chance to have a healthy body again by becoming an "avatar" -- a 10ft tall, blue-skinned creature genetically engineered to resemble the planet's humanoid life forms. The cast includes Sigourney Weaver, Michelle Rodriguez and Zoe Saldana. 
> "Avatar" is a combination of live action and photo-realistic CGI and is being touted as a huge leap forward in film technology -- likened to the first movie in sound or with Technicolor. 
> ...

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## devochka

Fame!!! I want to live forever! I want to learn how to fly! High!   ::  
I love that movie. It always made me dream about leading an "artistic" life myself. Although I doubt my parents would have let me. I'm curious about the remake, sceptic too. I will probably go see it just to see if they butchered the original or did it justice.  
Rockzmom: There's not much to be jealous about my job. I mostly fly short and medium haul (Europe and Northern Africa) so we always make a round-trip. Which makes for very long days and horrible schedules. But not everything is so negative. Sometimes I do fly long haul and get to stay for a few days. We have 4 such destinations: Cape Verde, Punta Cana, Puerto Plata and Cancun. I'm leaving for Cancun on Friday   ::  .  
Height restrictions? We only have restrictions for being too short. You have to be taller than 160 cm (about 5'3 or 5'4 I think?). So what was the restriction in your days?

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## rockzmom

> Fame!!! I want to live forever! I want to learn how to fly! High!   
> I love that movie. It always made me dream about leading an "artistic" life myself. Although I doubt my parents would have let me. I'm curious about the remake, sceptic too. I will probably go see it just to see if they butchered the original or did it justice.  
> Rockzmom: There's not much to be jealous about my job. I mostly fly short and medium haul (Europe and Northern Africa) so we always make a round-trip. Which makes for very long days and horrible schedules. But not everything is so negative. Sometimes I do fly long haul and get to stay for a few days. We have 4 such destinations: Cape Verde, Punta Cana, Puerto Plata and Cancun. I'm leaving for Cancun on Friday   .  
> Height restrictions? We only have restrictions for being too short. You have to be taller than 160 cm (about 5'3 or 5'4 I think?). So what was the restriction in your days?

 If I remember correctly it was around 5'8 and I am 5'10. It was about being too tall because of the low cabin and overhead bin height. I did a quick search and while it might not be true...   

> Most airlines have height requirements for safety reasons, making sure that all flight attendants can reach overhead safety equipment. Typically, the acceptable height for this is 160 to 185 cm (5 ft 3 in to 6 ft 1 in) tall.[6] Some airlines, such as EVA Air, have height requirements for purely aesthetic purposes. Regional carriers using small aircraft with low ceilings can have height restrictions.

 Okay, I am still jealous as i have never been to any of the places you get to go! So, if you have the time, please try to take some photos on some of your trips, even if they are nighttime ones, and post them for us! Also, let us know about the food and other impressions you have of the places.

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## studyr

I've just watched "Pulp Fiction". It's rating on IMDB is 8.9 and I'm agree.

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## Оля

> [s:1kmyrn0h]It&#39;s[/s:1kmyrn0h] Its rating on IMDB is 8.9 and [s:1kmyrn0h]I&#39;m[/s:1kmyrn0h] I agree.

 I've seen this movie, but I don't remember it well... 8.9 - это по какой шкале? Десятибальной?

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by studyr  [s:qaa94rg8]It&#39;s[/s:qaa94rg8] Its rating on IMDB is 8.9 and [s:qaa94rg8]I&#39;m[/s:qaa94rg8] I agree.   I've seen this movie, but I don't remember it well... 8.9 - это по какой шкале? Десятибальной?

 George, somehow I just knew that you would like this movie!!!  
Quentin Tarantino's new movie Inglourious Basterds did very well at the box office this past weekend. It was number 1 at the box office over the weekend in a  BIG way ($38,054,676 vs. $18,213,546 for 2nd place Distric 9, and the theater count was almost the same). 
So far I just have not been able to get "into" any of his films. I did see him "live" at a taping of the Tonight Show when Grindhouse was coming out, and he seems to be very funny and the kind of person I would like; yet, his movies, I just don't get.

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## Hanna

> Originally Posted by studyr  [s:1bb2wtiy]It&#39;s[/s:1bb2wtiy] Its rating on IMDB is 8.9 and [s:1bb2wtiy]I&#39;m[/s:1bb2wtiy] I agree.   I've seen this movie, but I don't remember it well... 8.9 - это по какой шкале? Десятибальной?

 I can't remember the plot either: Lots of killing, that's all I remember. 
But Uma Thurman is a cool and very talented actress, I think. 
The music in Pulp Fiction was very good too. 
I read that it inspired lots of crazy murders by teenagers etc.

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## studyr

Каникулы строгого режима is very funny comedy and a game of actors is great. But it just released and there are no English subtitles for it. It's a great task to translate a whole film but if each of us take 10 minutes of it we can create them. Natives are welcome to correct posts for better translation. Any suggestions?

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## Hanna

I have finally read through this thread in it's entirety and I am blown away!  *
This thread is a highlight of the internet for anybody interested in film...* I really don't think anything similar is available on the internet for people who do not speak Russian. There are so many incredibly insightful comments, perspectives and helpful links.  *
I will undertake the exercise of organising the information relating to Russian-language films* into a table which I will publish in a new thread. (This thread has become too long). I will put the following information in the table:   *Russian title; English Title; Year Produced; Comment; Colour/Black-White* 
This thread could then be used as a reference by people who study Russian and would like an introduction to Russian cinema. Sort of *"100 years of Russian film"*  
As we all know, watching films is good for improving language skills and also for learning to understand other countries / cultures better. These films can help learners not only to improve their Russian skills, but also to understand Russia, its' history and its' people better.  
Once the information is available in table - format, the Russian speakers on the forum can double-check to make sure that no important film is left out, and that no poor quality film is included.

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## Hanna

As I said in the previous post, I've read through this amazing thread in its' entirety. 
I've started downloading a whole bunch of films and I watched two so far.  
I found myself agreeing specifically with many of Olya's comments regarding some specific films like "Stalker" and also her comments regarding the overall high quality of Soviet cinema. I was interested to read CoffeCup's explanation of how the actors split their time between working on movies and at the theatre.  
I have no knowledge of how Soviet cinema worked, but there are many things to admire: Some incredibly talented actors and directors. The music in most of the Soviet films, was outstanding; even in the most simplistic films.   
As Olya hinted; Cinema from this era was "Art for arts sake" and not just created to make money.  The necessity today for all films to be profitable means that there is a tendency to stick with tried concepts and sometimes appeal to the lowest common denominator. The lack of commercialism shines through in the Soviet films - I for one find this refreshing.  
I am not sure if there was any serious censorship or not and whether this had any impact on the artistic content. My guess would be that this disappeared post-Stalin..  _
(But on the other hand, the focus on artistic content can be taken too far - some of the films from this era I remember as frankly a bit boring... Or you feel as if you need to go and get a degree in existentialist philosophy to fully appreciate them....) _  
As a non-Russian viewer there is probably A LOT you are missing in terms of cultural references.  
I could rant on for a long time about how much I (as a child) enjoyed some Russian childrens' productions (cartoons, puppets, fairy tales and adventures). Disney / MGM etc definitely met their match in these productions - they were allround top class.

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## Hanna

*Some specific questions*: 
1) I was looking for films from the 1990s and found only a few mentioned in the thread, namely Brother I,  Thief, Burnt by the Sun and 9th Company, at a quick glance.  Only four films in such a long thread with over 100 titles mentioned! *Are there any other good films from the 1990s?* *
2) Anybody recognises this description* of a film I've seen on TV but don't recall the name of? I'd like to see it again: Sci-fi (science fiction), with the plot revolving around an alien woman who was played by a very striking actress with short white hair and a very long neck. The plot takes place in a futuristic looking house. The film was considered to be a masterpiece but I have no idea who made it, when it was made or what the title was. My guess would be that it's from the 1980s but this could be wrong.  *
3) Why hasn't the nice film "Moscow does not believe in tears" been mentioned*? It's more or less a romance (chick-flick) from the 1970s. I'm sure this must have been popular in Russia?  Is it not considered to be good quality? I liked this film a lot anyway, and I recommend it - particularly to women.   
4) "Beamer" (BMW?) which is supposedly about some guys who steal a car and drive to Magadan... ? What is the Russian name of this film, I can't find it? My brother recommended it as his top tip for contemporary Russian films (which is a sure sign it's a very violent film...) Nevertheless, the concept of driving thorugh Russia is interesting. (But is it really possible to drive to Magadan?) 
5) Does anybody recall the name of a Russian film from a few years back which features the battle of Poltava? 
6) Films which feature non-native speakers of Russian?  (I can only think of "Mimino"). Anything more contemporary, or any other old film like that? 
7) I vaguely remember that there were one (at least) musical film from the 1980s with Sofia Rotaru. Anybody remembers this? Were those good or worth watching today? The "Fame" comments made me think about Russian musical / pop films and that's the only one I can think of. Not sure of names or years though. I am also interested in her because she is (apparently!!!) a speaker of Russian as a foreign language.

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## Оля

> Some specific questions[/b]: 
> 1) I was looking for films from the 1990s and found only a few mentioned in the thread, namely Brother I,  Thief, Burnt by the Sun and 9th Company, at a quick glance.  Only four films in such a long thread with over 100 titles mentioned. *Are there any other good films from the 1990s?*

 I've mentioned "Кукушка" several times in this thread.   ::  
As for me, I don't think "9th Company" is a good film. 
Or... wait, what do you mean by "films from the 1990s"? Films between 1990 and 2000? But "9th Company" was made in 2005. Okay, if you mean just films after 1990, there are more than four good films, of course.   

> 2) Anybody recognises this description of a film I've seen on TV but don't recall the name of? I'd like to see it again: Sci-fi (science fiction), with the plot revolving around an alien woman who was played by a very striking actress with short white hair and a very long neck. The plot takes place in a futuristic looking house. The film was considered to be a masterpiece but I have no idea who made it, when it was made or what the title was. My guess would be that it's from the 1980s but this could be wrong.

 Is this her? http://ternii.film.ru/img/large/ternii-09.jpg   

> 3) Why hasn't the nice film "Moscow does not believe in tears" been mentioned? It's more or less a romance (chick-flick) from the 1970s. I'm sure this must have been popular in Russia?  Is it not considered to be good quality? I liked this film a lot anyway, and I recommend it - particularly to women.

 No, this film is not considered to be bad quality. It's a very popular Russian movie.   

> 4) "Beamer" (BMW?) which is supposedly about some guys who steal a car and drive to Magadan... ? What is the Russian name of this film, I can't find it? My brother recommended it as his top tip for contemporary Russian films (which is a sure sign it's a very violent film...) Nevertheless, the concept of driving thorugh Russia is interesting. (But is it really possible to drive to Magadan?)

 The Russian title is "Бумер".   

> 6) Films which feature non-native speakers of Russian?  (I can only think of "Mimino"). Anything more contemporary, or any other old film like that?

 "Паспорт", maybe?

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## Hanna

Thanks for the response! 
Yes - that's the film I meant! (the woman in the pic).  
By films from the 90s i DID mean 1990 - 2000 but I had only just started to skim through all the information from the thread, that's why I missed Kokoshka and got mixed up with the other film.  
That's why we should turn all the information into a nice table that is easy for anybody check. People could also focus on films that interest them, for example Romantic, Comedy, War film etc.

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## rockzmom

> I have finally read through this thread in it's entirety and I am blown away!  *
> This thread is a highlight of the internet for anybody interested in film...* I really don't think anything similar is available on the internet for people who do not speak Russian. There are so many incredibly insightful comments, perspectives and helpful links.

 Johanna, I must admit, this thread is amazing. As I mentioned to you, it started out as one thing and then just sort of became this lovely free-for-all exchange of questions, answers, reviews, trivia... you name it...it is in here. You want to find a song from a movie ask and... "bibbidi bobbidi boo," your wish is granted. You need subtitles to a film... "presto," you have a link for subtitles and probably Olya has written them! You don't understand the Russian meaning of something going on in the film... "abracadabra," you have an explaination x3. And on the other side... you have the American things like the cultural references in our TV/Films that we can explain. So it is a great balance and exchange.   

> I will undertake the exercise of organising the information relating to Russian-language films [/b]into a table which I will publish in a new thread. (This thread has become too long). I will put the following information in the table:   *Russian title; English Title; Year Produced; Comment; Colour/Black-White*

 The list that I have on page 13, I have it in Word if it will help. Let me know, I can post it for you to download or email it to you.

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## rockzmom

> That's why we should turn all the information into a nice table that is easy for anybody check. People could also focus on films that interest them, for example Romantic, Comedy, War film etc.

 BTW, the list on page 13, does have the genre for each film and you can also download a pdf of it here http://www.mediafire.com/?nndmvguu0id

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## Оля

> Yes - that's the film I meant! (the woman in the pic).

 It's "Через тернии к звездам" then: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_Aspera_Ad_Astra_(film) 
I wouldn't say it's a popular film in Russia. I don't think I've seen it entirely, it's somehow too oppressive for me. Also, there are no big "stars" (I mean actors) in that film, although Soviet cinema was exceptionally rich in stars.

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## Hanna

Thanks for identifying the film. It's one I started watching many times on TV but never lasted to the end...  
Swedish state TV in the 1980s loved these deep intellectual Russian and Eastern European films. Unfortunately not all viewers liked it,  but sometimes it was all that was available to watch. 
This particular one: "Per Aspera Ad Astra" was promoted a lot, prior to being shown, as a  "great Soviet masterpiece..." or something like that.. 
And now you say people there didn't care for it... Haha!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Rockzmom - the link that you pasted is dead? (to the PDF...)
I pasted every title mentioned in the thread into a spreadsheet. Currently the sheet has 108 rows, but there are probably a several duplicates. I don't think the list on p. 13 was complete though?

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## Оля

> "Per Aspera Ad Astra" was promoted a lot, prior to being shown, as a  "great Soviet masterpiece..." or something like that..

 Hm, that's funny  ::  It's definitely an overstatement. I've just looked up who is the director of this "masterpiece" - his name is Ричард Викторов (unknown to me). I'm sure if you ask 100 passers-by in Russia who is Ричард Викторов, you'll get 100 answers "I don't know". Although I see on Wiki that he shot a couple of more or less famous films: "Москва-Кассиопея" and "Отроки во Вселенной".

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## BappaBa

> 1) I was looking for films from the 1990s and found only a few mentioned in the thread, namely Brother I,  Thief, Burnt by the Sun and 9th Company, at a quick glance.  Only four films in such a long thread with over 100 titles mentioned! Are there any other good films from the 1990s?

 I like *Blokpost* (199 ::  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0196381/   
and *Kavkazskiy plennik* (1996) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116754/

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## Hanna

Super, thanks BappaBa. 
Those seem like films that should be possible to find --- with subtitles.  
(After checking torrents.ru it's clear to me that it has everything.... 
The trouble is that the uploads to this site don't seem to have subtitles.)  
Without the subs I miss out on too much of the plots.

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## Ramil

I've watched this movie not so long ago and somehow it returned to me the belief in Russian cinematograph.
It is one of the few films that have been released during the last ten years that I actually liked:   
Here's some info in English: http://www.kinokultura.com/2007/17r-graffiti.shtml  
And another one from that list:    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo_(film)

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## Оля

There is a sketch show on Russian TV (quite a new genre for us, by the way) named "6 кадров" which is sort of a word game in Russian and means "6 frames", and/or "6 shots", and/or "6 characters" (because 6 actors play in it).
So... First, I'd like to ask Russians who watch this show if they like it and who they like best of all in that show. 
And second, I'd like others to watch one of the episodes I put on youtube and ask if you like it.  ::  I hope everything is understandable without translation there. 
[video:1laeed4x]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqOkLayYjb4[/video:1laeed4x]

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## BappaBa

> So... First, I'd like to ask Russians who watch this show if they like it and who they like best of all in that show.

 Я смотрел несколько выпусков, ничего особенного на мой взгляд. Смотрел из-за Добронравова. Его бы с Нонной Гришаевой свести - получилась бы убойная смесь. =)

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## translationsnmru

> Although I see on Wiki that he shot a couple of more or less famous films: "Москва-Кассиопея" and "Отроки во Вселенной".

 These two movies were BIG with kids in 1970s and early 1980s. Everyone knew the "Если что-то я забуду" song. Well, every child and teen, that is. I guess the films weren't quite as popular with adults as they were with us kids. Much later, I tried watching a rerun of "Отроки во Вселенной" on TV, and it wasn't nearly as much fun as it had been when I was young  :: 
But I had no idea about who was their director, and I have never heard of "Через тернии к звёздам". Odd, no?

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## studyr

> Super, thanks BappaBa. 
> Those seem like films that should be possible to find --- with subtitles.  
> (After checking torrents.ru it's clear to me that it has everything.... 
> The trouble is that the uploads to this site don't seem to have subtitles.)  
> Without the subs I miss out on too much of the plots.

 Кавказский пленник-subtitles, Блокпост, but I can't find subtitles for Блокпост.

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## Оля

> Я смотрел несколько выпусков, ничего особенного на мой взгляд. Смотрел из-за Добронравова.

 Я вообще смотрю это шоу ТОЛЬКО из-за Добронравова.   ::  
Некоторые из его номеров, на мой взгляд, просто гениальны.   ::  Например, как он в аптеке спирт спрашивает.   ::

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## CoffeeCup

> Films which feature non-native speakers of Russian?

 "Red Heat" with Arnold Schwarzenegger as a Russian policeman!  

> Довэрьйай мнэ. (Trust me)  Капыталызм. (Capitalism)  Хулиганы. (Hooligans)

 I love this movie!    ::

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## Hanna

@Ramil --- Thanks! Kokoshka and Graffiti seem really excellent!
I look forward to watching them - the Kokoschka storyline is particularly interesting and I can't wait to hear that Finnish actor (Ville something) speak Russian... 
Thanks a lot for the tips!  
@Studyr: I couldnt find subs for Блокпост either... Other than in Polish!   ::   So I'll save this film for later, when my Russian has improved. The plot sounds interesting and I definitely want to see this one.  
@Coffecup --- haha; Arnold Schwarzenegger as Russian policeman.   ::   I never saw that film... 
Here's one that I'm pretty sure has plenty of bad Russian in it: "Red Dawn" from mid 1980s. Plot: USSR and Cuba invade the USA, but some schoolkids fight back.. (This film was actually banned at first in Sweden and Finland due to being too extreme,  politically. Which of course meant that all kids wanted to see it, and did..  ) Are there any old Russian cold war "paranoia" films like this? 
[video:2yknbn6l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_I4WgBfETc[/video:2yknbn6l]

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## alexB

Американские "Неуловимые мстители"

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## Hanna

I checked Неуловимые мстители - another one to add to the list of interesting Russian films! 
I doubt this one has subs, but you never know...

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## Оля

> the Kokoschka storyline is particularly interesting and I can't wait to hear that Finnish actor (Ville something) speak Russian...

 He doesn't speak Russian in that film.  :P Although he speaks perfect Russian in life.
By the way, I think the English spelling of the movie title should be "K*oo*k*oo*shka" or even "Kukushka". Or do you just use Swedish spelling?

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## Hanna

Olya, I keep making mistakes with the transliteration...   ::   
I'm sorry! I just find it a bit confusing and I keep being too lazy to take time to check it. But I'll be more careful. It could cause unnecessary confusion. Or I'll just start writing the names in Russian. (I type 10 times faster in English though...)  
The reason for the mixup: Germany uses the same transliteration and there is rather well-known artist called Oskar Kokoschka  -- Also I remembered the old Victor Tsoi (right spelling, I checked!) song was translated as "Kokoschka". Link to the *Kukushka* song below for those who have never heard it!   
[video:3ulxrqt4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNp9SBW4xTA[/video:3ulxrqt4]

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## Ramil

> @Ramil --- Thanks! Kokoshka and Graffiti seem really excellent!
> I look forward to watching them - the Kokoschka storyline is particularly interesting and I can't wait to hear that Finnish actor (Ville something) speak Russian...

 You'll be disappointed  ::  He doesn't speak Russian there ))). The whole plot rotates around the fact that all three main characters don't understand each other. Ivan speaks Russian, Anni speaks Saami (I think that's how her language is called), and Veiko speaks Finnish. Well, you won't hear him speaking Russian but the film itself is just wonderful. 
P.S. And although I was (and still am) a great fan of Kino and Viktor Tsoy I like this cover version by Zemfira more: 
[video:1mr33g6i]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgc0ZYDzazY[/video:1mr33g6i]

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## Basil77

> I checked Неуловимые мстители - another one to add to the list of interesting Russian films! 
> I doubt this one has subs, but you never know...

 Yes, wonderful movie, especially this song: 
[video :: 1m7vfrs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi5rmutQXIw[/video :: 1m7vfrs] 
This music is very good for ANY chase  ::  :  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFAC3niz6og

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## Оля

Does anyone have any suggestions where I can find English subtitles for Granada TV series "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes"? Precisely for this episode (A Scandal in Bohemia): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0506445/

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## Hanna

Try this  http://www.divxmoviesenglishsubtitle...n_Bohemia.html http://www.allsubs.org/subs-download...buncle/370537/

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## Оля

Thank you, Johanna!!!!!!!   ::

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## E-learner

> I checked Неуловимые мстители - another one to add to the list of interesting Russian films! 
> I doubt this one has subs, but you never know...

 Another film (miniseries) set during the Civil War in Russia that you might want to check out when you know enough Russian is "Адьютант его превосходительства". It's on youtube, but no subs.
I always thought of it as the predecessor to "17 Moments of Spring".

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## rockzmom

*RUSSIAN MOVIE REVIEW*  *"The Lady with the Dog"* (Дама с собачкой, Dama s sobachkoy), 1960
(Drama/Romance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lad...the_Dog_(film) 
(see page 13 of this thread for how to watch this movie either via download on Yandex or online at YouTube) 
For those of you who would like to read the story: Story in Russian Story in English  *Awards*
Winner Diploma of Merit, Foreign Actor (Aleksey Batalov) at the 1962 Jussi Awards (Finland)  *Review*
I must admit I have been wanted to watch this movie for MONTHS! Ever since I read and saw “The Reader” which the story “The Lady with the Little Dog” plays a pivotal part. I also wanted to see a good old fashion romance, so I really needed to be in the right mood to watch this and I knew that Hubby would not watch this “chick flick” with me! 
I very much enjoyed the opening of the film more than the rest of the film, sorry to say. At first I thought “Oh how sad that I had waited so long to watch this as this is going to be just the kind of film I like,” yet, the witty one liners like “I had a good sleep for no reason” soon went away and were replaced with the melodramatic tale of our star-crossed lovers, Dmitri and Anna.   
I can’t say enough about the acting of Aleksey Batalov. He had me fooled from the beginning. I truly thought his character to be the lowest pond scum alive. A total cad and a Dorian Gray to boot. The leaving of Anna’s glove at the train station before it is even cold from her hand and the train has even finished pulling out, was low. For all he knew, she could have seen him! Men! So, so, uncaring. At more than one point I was positive that Dmitri was going murder our poor Lady with the Dog! 
And Anna! She was just as Dmitri had described, PATHETIC! She had no backbone whatsoever! Woman, don’t have an affair if you can’t handle it. “Don’t do the crime if you can’t pay the time,” or at least don’t go on and on and on about it ad nauseam.  
Now the ending… So our lovers get back together for their little rendezvous with destiny in full view for anyone passing their hotel window to see. Especially the wife who received Anna’s letter. “Hello, here’s a clue…close the curtain if you are having an affair.” And the ending shot of Anna at the window leaving us to just assume that this romance continues for the next 20 years or so. Or does it? Was that the last time he saw her??? 
Now, with all that said, there were things I did like about the movie. Amazingly!  
The cinematography was beyond beautiful. This is one movie where I wished it were in color and if you have read my other reviews you know I normally do not feel that way about black and white films. This time however, I felt myself longing for the color of the ocean and the marvelous costumes. The sunrise Dmitri and Anna watch together.  I wanted to see it all and in Technicolor! I found it interesting to see Yalta after reading about Hangernaid’s visit there and seeing his photographs from there. I also remembered the slippers discussion we had in wintertime and thought about that while watching the snow scenes in Moscow. 
The little directorial character gestures were great as well. The piano scene with the candle was brilliant.  Dmitri seeing the white dog again was not bad either. 
I do have some observation type questions and I hope someone will help me out. 
1. What was with the scale at the ocean in Yalta? The only time I have seen scales around the beaches here are at the boardwalks and you try to fool someone by asking them to guess your weight and hope they guess wrong and then you win a prize. 
2. Both Dmitri and Anna have their wedding bands on their right hands. Here in the States we wear them on the left. Do you all still wear them on the right? 
3. Why was Dmitri in Yalta without his wife and kids? They never explained that one in the movie. They explained why Anna was there (due to her health, a lie) but never said why he was there for a month. 
For what to watch next...I'm thinking about "The Cranes are Flying", "The Meeting Place Cannot Be Changed" or get back to watching "The Master and Margarita."

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## rockzmom

A long time ago on this thread I talked about the movie and book series Twilight.  The second movie from this series, New Moon, is scheduled to be released November 20th.  
Now a group of people out on YoutTube did spoof trailers of the first Twilight movie and the other day they released their spoof trailer of New Moon. It is not as good as their Twilight one (it has had over 8 million views); however, it is pretty funny  
Here are links to the real trailers and the spoofs from Evil Iguana Production. Make certain you watch the real ones first, duh! Let me know if you need clarifations on anything as I have read all the books and seen the first movie (remember, I have teenaged daughters!) 
Older daughter really likes the part where she is describing him (his skin is pale white, he is really strong and fast and so on AND the part where he tries to go outside and the door is closed).   Real Twilight Trailer #1 Real Twilight Trailer #2 Evil Iguana Twilight Spoof 
This one the ending is the best part! Real New Moon Trailer Evil Iguana New Moon Spoof

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## Оля

Oh my god.........
Rockzmom, I'm afraid I will be reading your review for two days or something, to understand it properly. What a hell!!
It's just that I can't wait to tell you what _I_ think about that movie! Some time ago, I was my _favourite_ movie. Now I only want to say that "Дама с собачкой" is a great masterpiece from all possible points of view!
Also, it's not a love story at all!! It's not supposed to have a happy end. It had not to have and "end", or to give any explanations to a viewer. First of all, it's literature (I mean it's just a short story Chekhov wrote). It's not for entertaining a viewer! And there's no place for "liking" the film, in the simplified sense of the word "like". It's rather to make a viewer think, feel, ask. Not for entertaining or giving answers. Actually, as is well-known, art never gives answers. It only asks questions.
I'll probably write some more when I completely read and understand your post.

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## Hanna

"The Lady with the Dog" (Дама с собачкой, Dama s sobachkoy), 1960
Yet another awesome film review rockzmom!   ::   ::   ::  
I found myself being careful while reading it, because I haven't seen it and I didn't want to read any spoilers...  
After reading this I will try to get hold of this one plus decent subs and watch it when I get a chance. 
What a pity with the lack of colour. I always prefer it although some films are so good that it doesn't matter.   _Speaking about black and white films: I saw a comment from someone who said they never seen "CASABLANCA" . This is  film is the classic of classics. I really recommend that you watch it... I doubt there are  many adults in Europe or the US who haven't seen it. It's got some classic lines (things that the actors say) so it's best to watch it in English._     *I have to say the older Russian movies re much better than newer ones for learners... Not sure why but they seemed to keep it simpler and speak more clearly...*

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## rockzmom

> Oh my god.........
> I'll probably write some more when I completely read and understand your post.

 No, I beg of you, write more once you have calmed down and are no longer stabbing pins in your Voodoo Doll of me.   

> First of all, it's literature (I mean it's just a short story Chekhov wrote). It's not for entertaining a viewer! And there's no place for "liking" the film, in the simplified sense of the word "like". It's rather to make a viewer think, feel, ask. Not for entertaining or giving answers. Actually, as is well-known, art never gives answers. It only asks questions.

 What is the purpose of a film? Why is it made in the first place? Is it to educate? To Inform? To suspend reality for a short period of time? To take us from our own lives and troubles and transport us to someone else's? To make us laugh and forget our troubles? To let someone who has not or can't read famous literature see it and hear it or maybe understand it in a new light? To bring people of different cultures, backround and languages together? 
Yes, a film can make a viewer think, feel and ask...There are many reasons for films and "entertainment" is a BIG one. Because even for a short story such as this one, if a film does not entertain, even on some miniscule level, then no one would finance the production of it and it would not be made and then no one would ever see it.

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## Hanna

_oops - just saw Olya's comment... 
I simply can't add anything here. You two are in a league of your own....
I'm simply not observant or intellectual enough.... 
I sort of agree with both comments..._   ::   ::

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## Оля

> No, I beg of you, write more once you have calmed down and are no longer stabbing pins in your Voodoo Doll of me.

 Please don't react so. If I seemed rude to you, it could be so because of my bad English. I didn't mean to write anything bad about you as a viewer (I feel it's another clumsy sentence...), and I thought you knew that.   

> Because even for a short story such as this one, if a film does not entertain, even on some miniscule level, then no one would finance the production of it and it would not be made and then no one would ever see it.

 Please remember that the film we're discussing was shot in the Soviet time, and at that time the government financed cinema, and it financed the production of a lot of films that did not entertain, believe me  ::  
I think there are more than one meaning for the word "entertain"... As well as for the verb "to like". What I mean... well, I think you understand what I meant when I wrote "entertain", don't you? You see, for example, there is a documentary "Обыкновенный фашизм", a great post-war film about fascism and nazism in which a famous Soviet director Михаил Ромм expressed his own view on it, and it's full of terrible details. Well, what I mean, is that one can't say that he _likes_ this film. "I was shaken by this film" seems more appropriate...
The same about "to entertain". Probably it's not the same as the Russian verb "развлекать". Maybe it's "to amuse", "to divert"? In Russian, "развлекать" means something light, not serious, light-headed, frivolous; something you can enjoy eating icecream or chips. 
Also... Please believe me and please don't feel hurt, but I can assure you that the language used in this movie is extremely important, and unfortunately, many nuances of what heroes say is just lost in translation. Also intonation means so much in it! How she pronounces, "My husband is.... a lackey..."!
As for the plot... I don't know why you thought it was an "old fashion romance". But believe me, it's a very bad description for this film.
I can tell you, for example, that one the most important episodes is when Gurov is trying to start a conversation about his summer romance with an acquaintance, and this acquaintance says to him (completely missing Gurov's words): "You know, you were right: the flesh of sturgeon was stale". What do you think about that episode?
Chekhov wrote about banality and mustiness of life, and about impossibility to break out of it. The plot line is a romance, true. But the main is not about love. 
As for your question about the rings - all orthodox believers wear them on the right hand, so it's a tradition in Russia.

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  No, I beg of you, write more once you have calmed down and are no longer stabbing pins in your Voodoo Doll of me.   Please don't react so. If I seemed rude to you, it could be so because of my bad English. I didn't mean to write anything bad about you as a viewer (I feel it's another clumsy sentence...), and I thought you knew that.

 Oh, Olya.. I do understand you so much better than I first did almost a year ago. I know you are not being rude to me. I was trying to tease you back.   ::   ::  
And as for your English... it is just fine!

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## rockzmom

Olya, 
I know, this is long again...I'm sorry and if I could wave a magic wand or take a pill and write and think in Russian just so I could have these discussions with you - I would! Please read this as if I am sitting with you sharing a cup of tea and chatting with you as that is how I am typing it, with my cup of tea next to me.  ::   
I have had time now to read your second comments and you make excellent points and I agree that maybe we are having a discussion here about word choice and understanding.  
Another good set of film examples would be some of Steven Spielberg' work - Saving Private Ryan, The Lost Children of Berlin,  Schindler's List , So Very Far From Home. Some of these films were main stream "blockbuster hits" while others were smaller films that are more educational; however, all of these are about topics most people would not usually pay money to go sit in a theater and watch a movie about. Why would we subject ourselves to saddness and seeing images on the screen that would upset us as we know these are about events that actually happened in life?  Yet, in order for anyone to watch an entire film and not fall asleep or tune out it's message (whatever that message might be) it has to on some level reach us, grab us, hold our attention - in simpelest terms, for good or bad - entertain us.  
The script, actors, cinematography, editing, soundtrack, costumes, director and so on must all work together for one magical momment in time to make us stop thinking about our own lives, our jobs, our cellphones, our problems and focus instead on that big silver screen in front of us. This magically woven spell can easily be broken by one small second of bad continuity, a small unrealistic character decision, or an entire movie of bad accents. Even if the rest of the film is fabulous, one slight wrong step along the way and it can be spoiled. 
It is the same with literature. Why do you select a book to read? The title? The cover art? The writing on the book jacket? Word of mouth? And once you start to read it, what keeps you reading it? Why do you want to finish a 700 page novel when there are so many other things you could be doing with your life? It is once again, no matter the topic, death, distruction, romance... on some level the author has sucked you in and woven a spell that compels you to finish or the author has not done a very good job and that book sits on shelves. Or by chance you finish the book anyway and swear never to read another book by that author again!    

> I can tell you, for example, that one the most important episodes is when Gurov is trying to start a conversation about his summer romance with an acquaintance, and this acquaintance says to him (completely missing Gurov's words): "You know, you were right: the flesh of sturgeon was stale". What do you think about that episode?
> Chekhov wrote about banality and mustiness of life, and about impossibility to break out of it. The plot line is a romance, true. But the main is not about love.

 This part I did atually watch more than once! I was trying to understand it as I felt there must be something missing in the translation into English or I was not understanding the scene. I was thinking, "Is there a hidden meaning in the sturgeon?" And then I thought that the friend was trying to tell Gurov, in his own way, to forget about Anna. That it was was a form of symbolism. The sturgeon being bad and the idea of him thinking about the summer romance being bad.   

> As for your question about the rings - all orthodox believers wear them on the right hand, so it's a tradition in Russia.

 Thanks! I can once again tell Hubby that I learned something from a movie!!!

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## studyr

[video:3segcrib]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dc5pmBVsLA[/video:3segcrib]

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## Оля

> This part I did atually watch more than once! I was trying to understand it as I felt there must be something missing in the translation into English or I was not understanding the scene. I was thinking, "Is there a hidden meaning in the sturgeon?" And then I thought that the friend was trying to tell Gurov, in his own way, to forget about Anna. That it was was a form of symbolism. The sturgeon being bad and the idea of him thinking about the summer romance being bad.

 Since I find this question very important, let me please completely clear it up.  ::  All the more so because I didn't understand if the opinion you described in your quote above was your final opinion. If so, I strongly want to explain you the episode better. 
No, the "friend" (I actually don't think we should call that man Gurov's friend) is *not* trying to tell Gurov, in his own way, to forget about Anna. Not at all. He simply *doesn't hear* Gurov. I don't mean that he doesn't hear him physically, that he's deaf. No, but he just in no way can perceive Gurov's words. He's completely merged into banality of life, when a person lives like an animal, and only drinks, eats, plays cards, spends evenings in clubs, visits formal dinner parties, and actually has forgotten how to think and feel long ago. A conversation with him about love, or something else like poetry, history, literature is just impossible. Gurov is surrounded with such people in his life. Actually, he himself recently was almost like that. But he is younger than that acquaintance, and a story happened in his life that woke him up. Actually, not only Gurov, and not only in the XIXth century, but also we, nowadays can be surrounded with people in a varying degree like this Gurov's acquaintance. 
In fact, Gurov was trying to talk to that man about Anna because he has *nobody* to talk about her! And at once, that's the only subject he'd like to talk about.

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## rockzmom

Olya! I did not want you to think I was ignoring you. I started to read the English version of "The Lady With the Dog" and while it should have taken me about a half an hour or so to read, I have just not been able to devote the time I need to do it justice. Once I have finished it, I will get back to you and your comments on this.   ::   
Thanks again for helping me to see your point of view and understand Russian literature and movies! It is also helping me with what I have read so far!!  ::

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## sperk

Does anyone know the Russian title of a movie called Two Soldiers from the 1940's about a Sasha who works in the Urals Auto Factory?  	Два солдата gives me an American movie on kinopoick.com 
Thanks

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## translationsnmru

> Does anyone know the Russian title of a movie called Two Soldiers from the 1940's about a Sasha who works in the Urals Auto Factory?

 Два бойца.

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## rockzmom

::  I just finished watching "The Cranes are Flying."   ::   OMG, as hard as I tried   ::   I could not make it to the end without crying.   ::   I would like to blame it all on the fact that I have had massive amounts of medication today; however, I feel fairly certain that this movie would have gotten to me even without the drugs .  ::  
I do have many questions and comments which I will try to write up this week (and I still want to try and finish reading Lady With the Dog - but that is too hard for me to focus on right now). 
One quick question...I would like to know how the men folk feel about the film. Is this   ::   strictly a chick flick? 
And Olya...please, please, please... tell you that you liked this movie!   ::

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## alexB

The fact that Tatiana Samoylova was a beautiful, very beautiful woman at the time, I hope ladies present will excuse my pointing that out, greatly helped the film win over the men folk as well. Yes, the movie was good, except for the cranes maybe. Those golden palms in Cannes aren’t given around for nothing. Could she have become a world movie star had she not been fenced out by the iron curtain?

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## Оля

> I could not make it to the end without crying.

 I am very glad to hear that.   ::     

> And Olya...please, please, please... tell you that you liked this movie!

 It's one of the movies I don't consider to be "liked". It's one of the Great Patriotic War subject films. And those films mean soooo much to me. What I don't like about many of western people, it's that they often write about Russian Great Patriotic War movies that they're "too depressing". I think one should... no, MUST watch movies like those, so that not to turn into... I don't know... into someone who wants only amusement from movies and books, and only pleasure from life. We should know that there were people, exactly like us, and even much better than us, who died at war, just like that - just a second ago he was alive, and now he's dead. And his feat, if he performed a feat, remained forever unknown.
All those films always make me cry, and actually all that subject does.   

> One quick question...I would like to know how the men folk feel about the film. Is this    strictly a chick flick?

 I am not a man, but I don't think that this film can be considered as a "chick flick" by any Russian man.   

> I hope ladies present will excuse my pointing that out

 Ladies present, at least me, only agree with you!   ::

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## Hanna

Oh, I have this film on my harddisk because I downloaded it. Now I REALLY feel like watching it. 
Thanks for the review Rockzmom! 
I agree with Olya that some art (cinema, litterature, paintings) are not necessarily there to be enjoyed as such... Or rather, whether one enjoys them or not is secondary... They are there to trigger certain emotions, describe a condition, convey a message or even just because their creator is a genius. Also, there is some art that people have to know about to be "educated" - so their opinion about it is doesn't really matter - hence the compulsory reading lists at school etc.  
However, that said, *there is some art that I nevertheless can't stand* - which is simply too ugly, depressing,  boring or pretentious. Some extremely "artistic" or pretentious films can be like that, some modern art (in my opinion) and some litterature. But frankly I am a rather simple-minded person when it comes to art. If it's too abstract I just don't 'get' it...  
The ideal for me is of course when the artist/director can create something which is both somehow satisfying for the viewer AND is extraordinary art at the same time.. Such works are rare though, but it is SO exciting when you come across them. From the descriptions above it sounds like The Cranes are Flying might just be one of those works.  
As for Russian "chick flicks" - I am sure there have been many made since then, but _"Moscow does not believe in tears"_ (Москва слезам не верит) is a chickflick (in my opinion) which set in the 1960s and ca 1980. Basically on the theme of "girlpower". I really like this film. I think Rockzmom and any female student of Russian would enjoy it!  I found a subtitled version on Demonoid.com. 
[video:9qxe0t46]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQbrvVVqQqQ[/video:9qxe0t46]

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## Lampada

Музыка: С. Никитин
Слова: Д. Сухарёв и Ю. Визбор  *Александра* 
Hе сразу все устроилось,
Москва не сразу строилась.
Москва слезам не верила,
А верила любви.
Снегами запорошена,
 Листвою заворожена,
  Hайдет тепло прохожему,
А деревцу - земли. 
  Александра, Александра,
 Этот город наш с тобою.
   Стали мы его судьбою,
  Ты вглядись в его лицо...
   Что бы ни было вначале,
 Утолит он все печали.
   Вот и стало обручальным
  Hам Садовое кольцо. 
Москву рябины красили,
Дубы стояли князями.
Hо не они, а ясени
Без спросу проросли.
Москва не зря надеется,
Что вся в листву оденется,
Москва найдет для деревца
Хоть краешек земли. 
Александра, Александра,
Что там вьется перед нами?
Это ясень семенами
Крутит вальс над мостовой.
Ясень с видом деревенским
Приобщился к вальсам венским.
Он пробьется, Александра,
Он надышится Москвой. 
Москва тревог не прятала,
Москва видала всякое,
Hо беды все и горести
Склонялись перед ней.
Любовь Москвы не быстрая,
Hо верная и чистая,
Поскольку материнская
Любовь других сильней. 
Александра, Александра,
Этот город наш с тобою.
Стали мы его судьбою,
Ты вглядись в его лицо...
Что бы ни было вначале,
Утолит он все печали.
Вот и стало обручальным
Hам Садовое кольцо.
  Вот и стало обручальным
  Hам Садовое кольцо.

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## sperk

> One quick question...I would like to know how the men folk feel about the film. Is this    strictly a chick flick?

 That was the first Soviet film I ever saw and I liked it a lot. I was expecting a cliched blast of propoganda but instead found a moving, very real story.

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## BappaBa

> Does anyone know the Russian title of a movie called Two Soldiers from the 1940's about a Sasha who works in the Urals Auto Factory?  	Два солдата gives me an American movie on kinopoick.com 
> Thanks

 Саша с Уралмаша из фильма "Два бойца". 
[video:30mjamqd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDGLFLKa5o4&feature=related[/video:30mjamqd]

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## BappaBa

For the first time I see the Soviet film dubbed in English.   ::   
[video:s5l539qa]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jMDFG-rVk&feature=related[/video:s5l539qa]

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## alexB

How come nobody has mentioned this one, it’s almost criminal not having done that before.  If you liked ”The cranes are flying” you’re sure will like this movie too, all the more so when it’s dubbed already.

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## Hanna

Impressive! What a surprise!  The dubbing is really well done. 
As I understand it, Americans during the Cold War knew nothing of life the USSR apart from some exaggerated nonsense and disinformation.They thought it was mostly like a big prison camp.. Judging from the stiff language, the dubbing of this film was done in the 1950s or 1960s. At the height of Americas "anti-communist" (anti-USSR) paranoia!   *Well this is certainly is amazing proof of freedom of speech in the US!* 
But I have heard many Americans make comments which show that they believe that all art (including films) produced in the USSR during this period was purely "propaganda". (Really - if the USSR had done HALF as much propaganda as these people think, then I'm sure it would still exist today....but America might not...  lol....) 
It's difficult to imagine that there could have been USSR films widely watched in America, or indeed at all...    *What about American films in the USSR days, for you who remember it,  were you able to watch any?  *  
Well I  wonder who did the dubbing of this film and whether the film was watched by a large audience..?  Is this a "one off "or were any more films dubbed?

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## BappaBa

> *What about American films in the USSR days, for you who remember it,  were you able to watch any?  *

 =) When I was a kid I saw films about Lassie and Flipper on Soviet Union TV. I remember "Stunts" (Каскадеры), "The Deep" (Бездна), "Convoy" (Конвой), "Hangar 18" (Ангар 1 :: , "And Justice for All" (Правосудие для всех), "Mackenna's Gold" (Золото Маккены), "Cleopatra" (Клеопатра), "The Vikings" (Викинги), "Some like it Hot" (В джазе только девушки), "Tootsie" (Тутси), "Three Days Of The Condor" (Три дня кондора), "The Domino Principle" (Принцип домино), "The Great race" (Большие гонки) but the episode with gloomy hostile Russia has been cut out, I've seen whole film only several years ago   ::

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## alexB

*One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest* (полёт над гнездом кукушки, так кажется он у нас назывался)
O Lucky Man! (О, СЧАСТЛИВЧИК!) The songs in it by Alan Price were what made the film very popular among the young. *Sla Forst Freddy!/Бей первым, Фредди*! Don’t remember what it was about other that it was a comedy, there was a guy with a big retractable knife attached to his hand and that we, as kids, laughed our as**s out over it. *A Stitch In Time* (Приключения Питкина в больнице) A stupid comedy it must have been, but kids loved it too.

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## rockzmom

*RUSSIAN MOVIE REVIEW* 
"*The Cranes are Flying*", (Летят Журавли, Letyat Zhuravli), 1957 
(Drama/Romance/War) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cranes_Are_Flying   *Movie links:* http://narod.ru/disk/7257110000/The_Cra ... s.avi.html 
(see page 13 of this thread for direction on how to download using above link ) 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrUu6InN5kw  (English subtitles) Part 1 of 10   *Awards*
Winner of Palme d'Or at the 1958 Cannes Film Festival
Winner of Special Mention Award for Tatyana Samojlova at the 1958 Cannes Film Festival
Winner Diploma of Merit, Foreign Actress (Tatyana Samojlova) at the 1958 Jussi Awards (Finland)  *Review*
For two days now I have been mentally writing this review. I start with a pristine sheet of paper in my head and see the words flash across the page as the chatter in my brain dictates them and then I realize that I have not correctly expressed myself and I violently crumply the poor defenseless piece of paper and toss it aside and start anew. I can’t begin to tell you all how many virtual trees have been sacrificed for this one review. My lack of education and double or triple Scrabble bonus score words is once again haunting me. How can I adequately convey my thoughts about this movie? I am taking a deep breath and a sip of tea, and I will try yet again. 
I believe of all the films I have seen thus far, if I had to recommend one Russian film for someone to see, to say “Hey, you want to see what the folks over in Russia were making back in the day?” I would recommend this film. Because this film would blow their socks off. It has it all, unparallel technical work (cinematography and editing), emotional acting (and attractive actors/actresses), believable script/dialogue (and I only got the subtitles, I can just imagine it in Russian, oh how wonderful it must truly be), realistic settings and costumes, perfect sound effects, and on and on…   In short, it is a masterpiece of art.  
Yet, I have not mentioned anything about it being “It's one of the Great Patriotic War subject films,” as Olya stated. For me, an outsider, this movie is more about human nature than it is about the war. The war is more of the setting for the story which is being told. Sort of the same way the movie Atonement was for me. That movie also dealt with the war, yet the story was with human nature.  
So here we have a fantastic story line going on that happens to be taking place during a war. This setting adds to the story instead of detracting from as it enriches the characters by giving them additional dimensions that otherwise they would not have. Instead of a small palette of colors, we see them in the full spectrum of the rainbow, even though this movie is in black and white. And about it being in black and white…once again, I would NOT colorize this movie. Throughout this movie, the director and cinematographer made phenomenal uses of lighting almost as if the lighting was a character. This could not be done if the movie was in color.  
The acting throughout this movie was impeccable. I am truly amazed and saddened that this did not win more awards. I agree with AlexB’s comment about Tatiana Samoylova. If she had been an American actress, she would have been a superstar. Vasili Merkuryev, who I believe played Fedya (Boris' Dad), was also very impressive. The entire cast was just top notch and I feel if this movie had not been Russian, it would have won more awards and would have been recognized for the outstanding work of art it is. What a shame.  
One of the parts I loved about this movie, and I need someone to tell me if the English subtitles are anywhere near correct, is the banter back and forth between the family members in the beginning.  The subtitles at least, had this as “real” dialogue and not some stupid insipid babel which helped immensely to give the movie its realistic feeling. From the start, you are sucked into the lives of these people because you become part of their world. You become attached and connected to them very quickly and that is in part due to the scriptwriting as well as the acting. 
I know Johanna wants to watch this movie, so I do not want to spoil it for her and give away the major plot twists and ending, or for anyone else who may read this and then hopefully want to watch this amazing film. I will say, there were only two scenes that I thought were just a tad over done for me both acting wise and camera effect wise, yet I forgive them as I understood the effect they were going for and maybe on a big screen it worked and just on my little TV it came across as a little too much.  
Also without giving too much away, the scene where Veronika goes back to her apartment after the bombing, that was brilliantly done. I got goosebumps watching it. I wonder how many takes they did to get that one just perfect or if they only had one chance to get it right? The clock left there and ticking. Time does not stop, time goes on. Very artistic. 
So to sum it all up, I don't see this as a great war film at all.... just simply a great film.  *Questions/Comments about the film:*
In Boris’ room, on his wall it looks like he has architectural maps rolled up and hanging on the wall next to his bed. Did I miss something? What was his job at the plant? Why would he have those? 
I also noticed the statue on his desk. Nicely put there. 
At the 6:33 mark in the movie, the subtitles translate the line as “That’s what love is my dear: a harmless mental illness” is that what the dad actually said? I laughed at that, so I hope it was correct. 
The cake/strudel the grandmother is cutting at the 8:12 mark, does anyone know what that is? It looks yummy! 
The apartment doors open out. I have only seen that on houses in hurricane areas such as Florida. Do most of the doors open out? If so why?

----------


## GreenLarry

Solaris:which version do you prefer?

----------


## Оля

Thank you for your review, Rockzmom. I only want to point out that YES, indeed, this film really is about human nature and not about the war itself. But I think American and Russian ideas of "a war movie" differ a lot. The fact is that almost all Russian Great Patriotic War subject movies are, in fact, about people and human nature. They are all about that. So in Russian, "a film about War" means "a film about people in the war". That's the most important thing for me in those movies, and that's what makes them so impressive, what turns them into masterpieces.   

> At the 6:33 mark in the movie, the subtitles translate the line as “That’s what love is my dear: a harmless mental illness” is that what the dad actually said? I laughed at that, so I hope it was correct.

 He said: "My dear, love is a mutual giddiness". 
The previous lines are: _- (wife) He totally turned her head.
- (husband) And she turned his head._ 
The Russian verb "to turn smb's head" and the noun "giddiness" have the same root in Russian and sound similar.   

> The cake/strudel the grandmother is cutting at the 8:12 mark, does anyone know what that is? It looks yummy!

 It looks like a big пряник... Russian Wiki page

----------


## Hanna

> Solaris:which version do you prefer?

 I think you are asking this question in the wrong forum!   ::  The Russian version of course!  
I know there is an American version of Solaris, but I've never seen it. However I have seen the Russian version many times.  
My guess would be that the American version is a bit more fast paced, and that (in true Hollywood fashion) they changed the plot and the characters as needed (e.g. add some new, remove the less exciting characters).

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## it-ogo

> Solaris:which version do you prefer?

 The Polish one.  ::  
I mean the book.

----------


## Hanna

> Originally Posted by Johanna  *What about American films in the USSR days, for you who remember it,  were you able to watch any?  *    =) When I was a kid I saw films about Lassie and Flipper on Soviet Union TV. I remember "Stunts" (Каскадеры), "The Deep" (Бездна), "Convoy" (Конвой), "Hangar 18" (Ангар 1, "And Justice for All" (Правосудие для всех), "Mackenna's Gold" (Золото Маккены), "Cleopatra" (Клеопатра), "The Vikings" (Викинги), "Some like it Hot" (В джазе только девушки), "Tootsie" (Тутси), "Three Days Of The Condor" (Три дня кондора), "The Domino Principle" (Принцип домино), "The Great race" (Большие гонки) but the episode with gloomy hostile Russia has been cut out, I've seen whole film only several years ago

 *Not bad! 
Actually I haven't seen ANY of those films, lol! I know of Lassie though.*  
When I grew up in Sweden we had only two channels (state owned). The channels had a lofty view of eductating the viewers and refining their tastes in culture. They tried to balance films and programs from Europe (East and West) with American and domestic. I really regretted not being able to watch "Star Trek"! However you could rent this kind of stuff on video if you really wanted it.  In their wisdom, our state TV refused to broadcast anyting by Disney, apart from once a year on Christmas eve, lol!  But all this came to an end in the early 1990s when two commercial channels were started and people got cable TV. After that, American productions started dominating all of the channels. Sometimes I feel a bit nostalgic about the old setup. There were never any commercials back then! Without these policies in the 1980s I wouldn't know anything about Polish historical dramas, Soviet comedies or German soap operas...... People a few years younger than me know mostly Hollywood productions! 
Here is what I really wanted to watch on TV when I grew up...  Not available though, so I watched on holidays abroad. 
[video:2kusoclm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsxgcLf0TSY[/video:2kusoclm]

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## translationsnmru

> I really regretted not being able to watch "Star Trek"!

 I watched a dozen episodes of _Start Trek: The Orginal Series_, and, putting it mildly, I was not impressed. Captain James Kirk, with an imbecilic half-smile glued to his face, looks like an effing moron, pardon my French. Most episodes were boring. Spock is good, and Uhura looks striking (when she doesn't sing). Oh, and I liked Scotty too. But, all in all, I didn't really enjoy the series. (But then, I was an adult when I watched it). I don't regret watching it, because now I can better understand my American online friends when they make a reference to it, but I have no desire at all to watch the remaining episodes. Is _Star Trek:The Next Generation_ any better than the original series?

----------


## Hanna

TranslationsMRU - I haven't seen the original StarTrek. But it has lots of famous catch phrases that are used  a lot by Americans in particular. Such as:    

> *"It's life Jim, but not as we  know it!"* _("life" can be replaced with any word.. this means that it is a familiar phenomenon, but not done in the way that you are used to... It's often used in a sarcastic way..)_   *Beam me up Scotty!* _(I don't know what this means exactly, but I have heard it a lot of times. Perhaps somebody can explain)._   *To boldly go where no one has gone before! *  
> Plus many references to the plots and characters of Star Trek.

 Star Trek Next Generation was probably pretty good - it was incredibly popular.But to be honest I haven't seen a lot of it. Perhaps it just seemed cool because it was inaccessible...  I remember watching it while on holiday in Germany and Israel (dubbed).  Because of the dubbing I missed a lot of the plot.  
There were two more Star Trek series made after "Next Generation", which I have seen parts of. These are *Star Trek Voyager* and *Star Trek Enterprise.* I thought Star Trek Enterprise was the best of those. It has been running on cable TV here in the UK...  But I'm a sci-fi fan, so it's not surprising that I like it.. !     *Can you recommend any Russian Sci-fi films?*    

> PS - Anybody who hasn't watched 2008 Russian film "The Inhabited Island, " watch it! It's available to download with English subs in the Russian section at Hexagon.cc http://russian.hexagon.cc/torrents

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## translationsnmru

> TranslationsMRU - I haven't seen the original StarTrek. But it has lots of famous catch phrases that are used  a lot by Americans in particular.

 That's exactly the reason I decided to watch it in the first place  :: . 
"Beam me up, Scotty" means "Scotty, teleport me back to the ship". Scotty was an engineer in charge of the equipment that was used for teleporting ("beaming") people from and to the ship.

----------


## Hanna

. Some BRITISH classics for learners of English!   *'Allo, 'Allo!  * From the 1980s. This was super-popular across Europe and it's still running on many channels. It is a parody of life in France, while it was occupied by Germany during the war. It's an hilarious parody of all the nationalities involved.  
The story is based around René who owns a café in occupied France. He is trying to be on friendly terms with the Germans while at the same time supporting the French resistance, rescuing stranded British paratroopers, having affairs with the waitresses at the café and making money on the black market... The series was so popular that it ran for almost ten years.The most famous is probably _"Listen carefully, I shall say this only once!"_  

> *Warning: Never pronounce the word "Colonel" like the do in this series, it's part of the comedy....*

 [video:1grmgytp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh-QtNN5Xiw[/video:1grmgytp] 
[video:1grmgytp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNStcseZMw0[/video:1grmgytp]   British Political Humour
"Yes Minister!" and "House of Cards..."   *(Good for learning RP pronounciation!)* 
Catch phrase:_ "You might say so.... But I couldn't POSSIBLY comment... "_   *Super-evil politician Sir Francis Urquhart who coined the expression above..*[video:1grmgytp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tyex8KswZo[/video:1grmgytp] * Yes Minister! A "good" prime minister with evil advisors... 
The scheming Sir Humphreys explains Britain's European policy to the PM... * 
[video:1grmgytp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIXH3-A8zMI[/video:1grmgytp]  
ALL OF THIS IS AVAILABLE ON BITTORRENT, NO DOUBT.

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## rockzmom

> *What about American films in the USSR days, for you who remember it,  were you able to watch any?  *

  

> =) When I was a kid I saw films about Lassie and Flipper on Soviet Union TV. I remember "Stunts" (Каскадеры), "The Deep" (Бездна), "Convoy" (Конвой), "Hangar 18" (Ангар 1, "And Justice for All" (Правосудие для всех), "Mackenna's Gold" (Золото Маккены), "Cleopatra" (Клеопатра), "The Vikings" (Викинги), "Some like it Hot" (В джазе только девушки), "Tootsie" (Тутси), "Three Days Of The Condor" (Три дня кондора), "The Domino Principle" (Принцип домино), "The Great race" (Большие гонки) but the episode with gloomy hostile Russia has been cut out, I've seen whole film only several years ago

 *BappaBa*, you are showing your age now.   ::   What an interesting assortment of films. Of the films you have listed, I have seen about half of them.  
The Deep and one you didn't list "Jaws" I was not allowed to see beacuse I was a swimmer and my grandfather thought they would frighten me too much and I would not want to swim any more, so he made me promise NEVER to read the book or see the movie. To this day I have not broken that promise!!!  
"Three Days of the Condor" OMG, how I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED, that movie. I am not certain now if I saw it what I would think of it. I remember that one of the reasons I liked it soooo much was part of it took place near where I lived. So, that was neat for me as a "kid" to hear and see places that I knew. I also thought it was a interesting that they got the area code for Chevy Chase as 202 when very few people knew/know that there were/are ANY phone numbers in Maryland with a 202 area code, almost all of them were 301. As Chevy Chase is on the line that divides Maryland and Washington, DC, there were just a few houses that had the 202 area codes to them (202 is for Washington, DC and now Maryland has more than one area code). The other part was how he could just do EVERYTHING! Maybe he was the prototype for MacGyver?? 
I never read the book though, did you? It was because of Condor though that I DID read the book The Cuckoo's Egg. Have you read that one? I might swing this over to the Book thread... 
Convoy, hehehe.. I saw this one too. My parents had CB radios in their cars and we had one in the house too! I still remember our call numbers after all these years. 
Tootsie, I had the girls watch that one last summer. They were LAUGHING!!!   

> One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (полёт над гнездом кукушки, так кажется он у нас назывался)
> O Lucky Man! (О, СЧАСТЛИВЧИК!) The songs in it by Alan Price were what made the film very popular among the young.
> Sla Forst Freddy!/Бей первым, Фредди! Don’t remember what it was about other that it was a comedy, there was a guy with a big retractable knife attached to his hand and that we, as kids, laughed our as**s out over it.
> A Stitch In Time (Приключения Питкина в больнице) A stupid comedy it must have been, but kids loved it too.

 *Alex*, Cuckoo's Nest... Jack is a very interesting man as well as actor. I saw Cuckoo when it came out and I remember in high school going to see "The Shining" and actually screaming in the theater.  I also saw Chinatown as soon as it came out on DVD. I remember being impressed with that one as well. 
A Stitch in Time... At first the girls and I thought you meant the Kim Possible Movie which is a stupic cartoon comedy that the kids love.   ::    *Johanna*, about the "Beam me up" line... just to expand on it for a sec. When it is used now, it means sarcastically to "get me out (insert your favorite curse word or string of curse words here) of here." There are bumper stickers, signs and stuff that have an added part so that the entire thing is now  

> "Beam me up Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here."

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## Basil77

> *What about American films in the USSR days, for you who remember it,  were you able to watch any?  *

 I remember watching these American movies in a cinema theatre during 1984-88: "Spartak", "Star Wars episode 4" (almost 1/3 was cut out for some reason, when I watched it later on video I was impressed how much scenes I hadn't seen before) , "It's a mad,mad,mad,mad world". I'm sure there were some others, but I can remeber only these three.

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## Hanna

Star Wars IV.... That's really the first one, right?   *You watched that one in the USSR?!  *  What about the sequels? Well after reading the latest posts I am beginning to think that this censorship that the USSR supposedly engaged in was mostly hype! Were there any program / film that you were aware of and wanted to watch but couldn't?  
If you could watch Star Wars and those other films, then you didn't really miss a whole lot of GOOD 1980s Western popular culture!  At least not much more than what I "missed" in Sweden!   The fact you didn't grew up with Disney and Dallas is probably just healthy. There were some good blockbusters like "Dirty Dancing", "Top Gun" and James Bond... Other than that, no big loss by the sound of things..  
It sounds like you got some worthwhile US films after seeing Rockzmoms comment. (I forgot that I HAVE in fact seen "One flew over the Cuckoo's nest.) 
The reason they cut Star Wars may not have been anything political - it was seriously cut in Sweden too. I think it was just very violent. As a result the uncut version became very sought after.  I don't remember what the difference was.  
I guess you missed out on the opportunity to be able to go to the videostore and rent a trashy horror film (about a psychopath killer or something like that) and watch it with friends... I'm not sure that was very culturally enrichening though!

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## Hanna

There is one cultural phenomenon that is VERY American which I enjoyed a lot and which has entered popular culture. The Muppet Show.  
The reason I thought about this is because there is an expression_ "Dont' be such a muppet!" or "he's a real muppet"_ which is quite popular in English. We kept using it at work until it emerged that neither the Serbian nor the Indian colleagues had any idea what a "Muppet" was... But they had started usin the expression anyway. Being a muppet means being a bit comical, irritating and stupid but not necessarily nasty. 
[video:n3uks95x]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y89zLBcKlfs[/video:n3uks95x]  *Speaking of which....*  I read that there was some kind of Russian puppet show which was a political parody and got banned in MODERN times!  What was that about? What was the show called, are there any clips? Maybe I got mixed up, but I THINK that's what I read.....

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## rockzmom

> There is one cultural phenomenon that is VERY American which I enjoyed a lot and which has entered popular culture. The Muppet Show.  
> The reason I thought about this is because there is an expression_ "Dont' be such a muppet!" or "he's a real muppet"_ which is quite popular in English.

 How interesting because I have never heard those expressions and Maryland is the home of Jim Henson and The Muppets. I wonder if it is a British thing as the shows were filmed over there??? 
So, Johanna, what do you think of the Swedish Chef? All of the videos on YouTube of Swedish Chef seem to be of very poor quality   ::  
[video:33ey25ka]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbs64GvGgPU[/video:33ey25ka] 
For all you Coldplay fans, here is a great fan made video of The Muppets.
[video:33ey25ka]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phyg_uIPQII[/video:33ey25ka]

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## alexB

I think the forum, at least the Russian part of it, owes Rokzmom much more credit for her Flying Cranes review. I give her my personal thumbs up and acting on behalf of the most of Russians a virtual Golden Palm for best review.  ::

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## Basil77

> Star Wars IV.... That's really the first one, right?

 Yep.  

> *You watched that one in the USSR?!  *  What about the sequels?

 As far as I remember, it was in 1986, the very beginning of so-called "Perestroyka". I saw the sequels on video several years later.   

> Well after reading the latest posts I am beginning to think that this censorship that the USSR supposedly engaged in was mostly hype! Were there any program / film that you were aware of and wanted to watch but couldn't?

 I was a kid at that time, and loved American cartoons, especially "Tom&Jerry", but there was only one opportunity to watch it - on a VHR. And it was a very rare thing in the middle of 80s in USSR. One of my father's friends had a video recorder at home (he was a diplomat or something) and I was able to watch VHR  only if we went visiting that family.  

> If you could watch Star Wars and those other films, then you didn't really miss a whole lot of GOOD 1980s Western popular culture!  At least not much more than what I "missed" in Sweden!   The fact you didn't grew up with Disney and Dallas is probably just healthy. There were some good blockbusters like "Dirty Dancing", "Top Gun" and James Bond... Other than that, no big loss by the sound of things..

 I'v also just remembered that I watched "Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade" on video when I was very little, about 5 or 6 y.o., but it was dubbed in Spanish  ::  . A boy, who showed me this film spoke Spanish fluently (he was a son of that diplomat and they brought this tape from Mexico), so he was doing translation.  

> The reason they cut Star Wars may not have been anything political - it was seriously cut in Sweden too. I think it was just very violent. As a result the uncut version became very sought after.  I don't remember what the difference was.

 I strongly suppose that there was another reason - a very bad quality of the copy (the tape broke a couple of times during the seance)  ::  .

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## CoffeeCup

> .. Maryland is the home of Jim Henson and The Muppets ...

 The Muppets have bypassed me someway. But I remember and love his Fraggle Rock. This show was aired in Russia in the middle of 80's. The only things I was grief of were the Doozers' constructions which Fraggles ate a lot. But when in some episode I'd known that the Doozers liked Fraggles' eating their constructions I realized that there is a harmony in the world.  
Sprocket was adorable.

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## Оля

I believe "The Magnificent Seven" was a very popular American movie in the USSR...
Also probably Hitchcock movies...

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## Hanna

@Rockzmom --- haha Swedish chef!!! Needless to say he's not speaking a word of Swedish and many people in Sweden thought the character was irritating. But I think he's cool! I was VERY young when this was on though. I probably only liked it because the figures are cute. 
And Fraggle Rock was AWESOME, particularly the talking rubbish heap... ! I had no idea you watched so much US programs in the USSR.   
Swedish sounds like this, below (extreme Stockholm accent) from "Karlsson on the Roof". Josefina, a Swedish girl who blogs from Russia explained in her blog that Karlsoon is quite popular in Russia and has his own cartoon (which she says is awesome.)  
This is an old film from the 1970s. Karlsson is a figure by Astrid Lindgren a Swedish woman who also wrote Pippi Longstocking and lots of other childrens books. 
[video:1z3wua6i]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5NdqvsLEgs[/video:1z3wua6i]
[video:1z3wua6i]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjUMZvLvzLQ[/video:1z3wua6i]

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## translationsnmru

> Josefina, a Swedish girl who blogs from Russia explained in her blog that Karlsoon is quite popular in Russia and has his own cartoon (which she says is awesome.)

 Karlsson is _extremely_ popular in Russia, much more so than Pippi - probably due to the cartoons  :: .

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## Hanna

AWESOME!!! 
What a top class cartoon! Super funny and they've really captured the spirit although with a Russian twist I think. How nice of the poster to put English subs on the Youtube video! 
I love it!!!   ::   ::   ::

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by Johanna  Josefina, a Swedish girl who blogs from Russia explained in her blog that Karlsoon is quite popular in Russia and has his own cartoon (which she says is awesome.)   Karlsson is _extremely_ popular in Russia, much more so than Pippi - probably due to the cartoons .

 I think it is the other way around here. I have never heard of Karlsson-on-the-Roof, yet Pippi... I even have one of those books on our bookselves behind me as I type! The cartoon looks very cute though. I wonder why it never caught on here in the States? Oh, wait a minute, I see on Wiki here what that answer might be...   

> His antics earned him the ire of some traditional educators and parents, who believed that Karlsson might incite young children to disobey authority and mistrust and fear babysitters. The books were accordingly banned in some libraries and schools in North America.

 Gotta love censorship. Ya know, the poor kids might disobey authority and fear their babysitters...oh my!   ::

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## Hanna

> His antics earned him the ire of some traditional educators and parents, who believed that Karlsson might incite young children to disobey authority and mistrust and fear babysitters. The books were accordingly banned in some libraries and schools in North America.
> 			
> 		  Gotta love censorship. Ya know, the poor kids might disobey authority and fear their babysitters...oh my!

 Yeah, that's very silly!  *Well, Pippi herself was probably an Anarchist* (she refused to go to school and to move to an orphanage even though she had no parents... There was also an argument by  people with extreme socialist views that Pippi was promoting capitalism, since a lot of the plot was focussed on her sack of gold coins which she refuses to share with others.. Plus she is violating Health and Safety regulations when she's climbing around in trees and on rooftops!! 
But all of this is what made her cool!  I think Pippi turned several generations of kids into semi-anarchists... The author was well known for being a Social Democrat though and she often spoke on 1 May and similar. She was practically a cult figure in Sweden and she had a lot of public influence which she didn't hesitate to use. She was tremendously rich but she kept living in a state allocated flat until she died a few years ago.. Pippi and Karlsson were only two out of hundreds of characters. She was a real genius of childrens' litterature. 
Perhaps somebody remembers this film which was made by a Russian director I think?
Astrid Lindgren wrote this book too. 
[video:1pwv33ho]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAMK56brdls[/video:1pwv33ho]

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## translationsnmru

> Perhaps somebody remembers this film which was made by a Russian director I think?
> Astrid Lindgren wrote this book too.

 I remember when it was aired in the Soviet Union in late 1980s, but I didn't watch it (well, maybe a part of one of the episodes). I haven't read the book either.
You might be interested to know that there was a Soviet film about Kalle as well. There was also a film about Rasmus, but for the life of me, I can't recall if it was a Soviet film or a dubbed foreign production.

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## rockzmom

... as the topic of what is a "war" film seems to still be a bit of a mystery and it has spilled over to another thread, I want to bring some of the posts back over to this one so if someone comes here, they have the chance to read parts of the posts and understand what is meant when we are talking about "war" film as a genre.  
If anyone still has questions or comments about this, please chime in! 
And to most of you who I believe currently follow both threads, please forgive me for these double posting.   

> ...Also, I'd like to say some words about Russian Great Patriotic War films... 
> Mostly, foreigners who saw some of those films say they are too "depressive". That's what I hate. 
> But....... What do you want a film about war to be???? A comedy? A romance? A detective? I don't understand people who don't like to see war on the screen, who feel boring or "depressive" seeing that, and who don't want to watch things which can "upset" them; who don't want to weep over anything but a milksoppy love story or a lapdog's or a kitten's death! They don't want to understand that there were real people who lived and died at war, and it did not look like an adventure, or like a story about one person, or two persons, a man and a woman, where people around didn't matter.
> I HATE the film "The English Patient" where the main character is presented like a big hero who accomplishes "feats" in the name of "love". Listen, *he gave secret maps to fascists*!!! Having got those maps, fascists captured a city, took many prisoners, tortured people, cut off their fingers!!!...
> The only opinion about that film I came across on the internet was "this is a great film about true love"... F*ck it!!!!! It looks like western viewers really have no idea about true feats. A true feat is to save a thousand people and not one person, even if that one is your beloved and those thousand are nobodies to you.
> Moreover, the hero in "The English Patient" sacrificed a thousand of human lives for only a *chance* of saving the woman. That makes his action even more disgusting. Why do people like this film? For me, it's just a beautiful snivel in a beautiful wrapping. 
> Here are some Russian forceful war films I'd recommend to watch:  _Проверка на дорогах
> Офицеры
> Летят журавли
> ...

  

> ...Olya made a wonderful posting about "war' movies and I also commented on them in the BIG catch all movie thread. I want to throw this out to everyone and see what you all think. Of the few "war" movies  I have watched, to me they are "dramas" set in a "war time" not a film about a "war" or a film which 90% of it is with soldiers and takes place on a battle field.  
> SO, using the example of "The Cranes are Flying" I would never consider this a "war" film and if I am looking for a film to watch off of this list, I would probably skip over this film because, well... as Olya has correctly stated, I would not want to watch a movie which would upset me too much (unless I really was in the mood). On the flip side, if I were a real war buff and selected this film because I saw it was a "war" film on the list, I would probably be disappointed. 
> That leaves us in a dilemma. How can we categorize these films so people will "want" to watch them and not be mislead and also stay true to "Russians" and how they view and know the films?  
> Right now, Johanna only has one category for each film. On the BIG movie thread, I have more than one for some of them. Once again using the example of "The Cranes are Flying," I have this one listed as (Drama/Romance/War), how does this sit with all of you? Johanna, how would you feel about having more than one category for some of the films? 
> Does anyone else have a better or other solution to this?

   

> ...But, you know... it's not something political about the western and Russian ideas of WWII movies. It's just another human point of view. In Russian cinema, it's always a story about people, about a human nature, a war _drama_. In American/Western cinema, it's always an _action movie_, an _adventure_, where facts and events are more important than people. I don't like it, and I find it wrong.        Originally Posted by rockzmom  Of the few "war" movies  I have watched, to me they are "dramas" set in a "war time" not a film about a "war" or a film which 90% of it is with soldiers and takes place on a battle field.  
> SO, using the example of "The Cranes are Flying" I would never consider this a "war" film   I have already said that before, in other thread, and have said that just in this very post above, and I don't know why, but I'd like to repeat it again.   Russian WWII films are dramas, not action movies, so let's call them "war dramas" henceforth and unto ages of ages.

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## Оля

Okay, has anyone here seen "The English Patient"?   ::

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## rockzmom

> Okay, has anyone here seen "The English Patient"?

 hehehee... Amazingly, I have not. That year I was prego and going out to the movies was not high on my list. I have always wanted to see it, yet for some reason I just never got around to it. *ALSO*, I did not know what the storyline was about until your posting!  
So, this film, it won 9 Oscars (Best Actress in a Supporting Role, Best Art Direction-Set Decoration, Best Cinematography, Best Costume Design, Best Director, Best Film Editing, Best Music, Original Dramatic Score, Best Picture, Best Sound) and another 41 awards. 
I do find it interesting after reading your comments that it did NOT win the Oscar for Best Screenplay (Sling Blade did).  
So Olya, let me ask you this (and I ask with sincerity) ... story line aside... what about the rest of the movie? The things that it won Oscars for, did you find those at all to help the film have any redeeming value or was the storyline so upsetting for you that it would not matter how good everything else was, it was too distracting for you? 
The reason I ask, I know that there are times when even one piece of dialogue (maybe it is not right for the character or would not have been said at the time the story took place), one wrong continuity, or some other little distraction... can ruin an otherwise fantastic film for people. So if this is the case, if the story line itself (or the main character) was such a distraction for you, even with the rest of the film being the cream of the crop, 50 awards, is it a film you would never recommend on any level? 
Just wondering, 'cus ya know, I am the curious type when it comes to this stuff.  ::

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## Оля

> So Olya, let me ask you this (and I ask with sincerity) ... story line aside... what about the rest of the movie? The things that it won Oscars for, did you find those at all to help the film have any redeeming value or was the storyline so upsetting for you that it would not matter how good everything else was, it was too distracting for you? 
> The reason I ask, I know that there are times when even one piece of dialogue (maybe it is not right for the character or would not have been said at the time the story took place), one wrong continuity, or some other little distraction... can ruin an otherwise fantastic film for people. So if this is the case, if the story line itself (or the main character) was such a distraction for you, even with the rest of the film being the cream of the crop, 50 awards, is it a film you would never recommend on any level? 
> Just wondering, 'cus ya know, I am the curious type when it comes to this stuff.

 To be honest, I don't remember the film very well, and I don't remember the whole plot in details, even. But I remember very well all my impressions about this film. I can tell you that I didn't like the acting AT ALL (I don't remember supporting roles, though). The story line told us that the man and the woman loved... no, LOVED each other. I didn't see that at all. I only saw vain attempts to imitate love. All those "love" things in the film were boring to me.
I must add, however, that we Russian viewers are used to a very high level of acting we saw in our films (I think many Russians even don't realize that). So an acting which won Oscar could look just very pale and even just bad from Russian dainty point of view. To be quite honest, I see _really good acting_ (in my opinion) in foreign films _very rarely_. At best, acting in foreign films is just "okay" to me.
P.S. If you are interested, the only foreing actor who convinced me that he can play not worse, and even better than some Russian actors, was Alan Rickman.

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## sperk

I don't know if this has been  posted but it's a list of all the Russian films that have been translated into English on subtitry.ru (subtitles.ru). The movies are listed in Russian.  http://subtitry.ru/subtitles/native/

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## BappaBa

> To be quite honest, I see _really good acting_ (in my opinion) in foreign films _very rarely_. At best, acting in foreign films is just "okay" to me.

 Оля, +500 от меня =)

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## Оля

> Оля, +500 от меня =)

 Ну слава богу, я не одна, а то я иногда думаю - вдруг это у меня какая-нибудь ксенофобия вперемешку с оголтелым патрио-национализмом.   ::

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## BappaBa

> Originally Posted by BappaBa  Оля, +500 от меня =)   Ну слава богу, я не одна, а то я иногда думаю - вдруг это у меня какая-нибудь ксенофобия в перемешку с оголтелым патрио-национализмом.

 Ты знаешь, последний пример: пару дней назад посмотрел Taxi Driver, столько про этот фильм читал и слышал разговоров... Чуть ли не одна из самых лучших ролей Де Ниро. Абсолютно бестолковый фильм, имхо, а Де Ниро, вообще, одинаковый в любом фильме. Имхо, опять же... =)

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## rockzmom

Just so there is NO misunderstanding... the following comes under the definition of HUMOR  ::     

> ...umm, to be quite honest, umm, I think all non-Russian actors and non-Russian films, umm, well SUCK. Yes, the screenplays, the cinematography, the special effects, the soundtracks, costumes, editing, even the animals (your Lassie can't even begin to compare to our Sharik)... it all just frankly can't hold a candle to the good old USSR films. Those my friends were AMAZING actors and PHENOMENAL stories.  
> Well of course I do make an exception for anything with Alan Rickman (even Die Hard).... Oh and umm, I better not forget ...Rockzmom's daughters too...

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## Оля

> ...umm, to be quite honest, umm, I think all non-Russian actors and non-Russian films, umm, well SUCK.

 Well, actually, *to be honest*, I don't think so. I really like and even love some foreign films. As for Alan Rickman and "Die Hard", I don't think his acting in that film is something special. First of all, I meant his role in "The Perfume".
But! Okay, to make things a bit clearer. What is the main thing in Russian cinema (which actually comes from Russian theatre): as Stanislavsky said, "*жизнь человеческого духа*" (don't know how this classical phrase sounds in English; my attempt is, "the human soul's life"). No any screenplay, costumes, landscape views, soundtracks, or any other thing that could help if actors play badly. Human is THE MAIN. That's all. How, tell me please, can special effects be more important than the human soul's life? They can't.
The western cinema... is just different. The main thing is a plot. Action. Special effects, maybe. If the worst comes to the worst, a popcorn. It doesn't mean that all Western cinema SUCK. It's just that when I watch a good Western / American film, I... get pleasure of another kind. I enjoy the plot (like in "Catch Me If You Can"), or a geniusly created atmosphere (like in "Vertigo") and good acting (yes, it does happen in those films, too   ::  ). But, then again, they very rarely touch my soul deeply , make me cry. The one I can recall right now is "The Pianist" (a war film, again...). Also, there are a lot of American movies which I find senseless (it's not just "*I* find", really; it's just alien to us Russians, mostly, at least; well, let's rather say "to Russian art", it's fairer). There are a lot of "horror movies" which only make a viewer to feel horror, and nothing more. I've just watched one of such, "White Single Female". A lot of murders. I pity no one. It's not because I am hard-hearted, it's just because the director's goal was other. Just to frighten. What should I learn from this film? I learned nothing. Probably someone tells me, "You should learn that there are crazy people in the world one should be careful with". Sorry, but for me, it's not the art's goal (and cinema, for me, should be [close to] art). And the film I mentioned is not the worst movie of that kind at all. There are much worse ones.
I also can say that movies of that sort can only provoke fear, disgust, ...well, also prudence in life, maybe.   ::  They really can only "upset" a viewer and nothing more. But those war dramas I've spoken so much already before, even if they "upset", they provoke *catharsis and compassion*. That's what I want to feel having watched a movie. Not disgust or fear. Don't give me special effects, leave them for kids, or for cartoons. Give me true feelings, make me better, so that I could watch a movie and say "I must become kinder", "I want to love people", or ask myself, "What am I living for?", or something. So, what I mean - I, too, like Rockzmom, don't want to watch movies that just upset me, show me some loathsome picture and nothing more. 
As for movies about "crazy people", I want to tell you something. In МХАТ (Moscow Art Theatre School), students have to make exercises called "etudes" (to show, to play someone/something, to show a short dumb scene from its/his/her life where some event happens). First, it should be a thing (a ball, a table, a photocamera, whatever). Then an animal. Then a human. But every its/his/her action should be "inwardly reasonable". That is, if you are a cupboard, you can't just be swinging your doors hither and thither, without any reason, just so. You should have some inward reason. For instance, "I'm swinging my doors because I want more dishes to stay into me, so I want to tell people in this way to put more dishes into me, meaning come on guys, here, bring the plates in here, quickly". But bad students usually, showing some "swinging cupboard" say: "It's swinging its doors because it's crazy". So, what I mean. I mean that in all those movies where acts some crazy-person-who-murders-everyone-just-because-he's-crazy, the director tells us viewers, "There is no inward reason. He just is crazy. He just was unhappy in childhood. Watch this movie, there is a lot of blood, you'll like it". No, sorry, your etude is bad. I want to pity someone, even if you don't show me blood.

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## Hanna

Thanks Sperk for the subtitle link!  
Olya (and others) there are some Vietnam (war) films that you might enjoy - they are a good insight into American views of the world, I think, and some of them are VERY good in my opinion. The people in the film are common people who get caught up in a political war and have their lives messed up. I don't think the film directors much agree with the objectives of that war, so it's definitely no glorification of this very tragic war. The films do not show the point of view of the Vietnamese of course, just the American experience. However I have been in Vietnam and they are very proud there of their "victory" (as they see it).   The Youtube display functionality seems to be broken!  ::  Shame! I love linking to Youtube as you  might have noticed!  
"THE DEER HUNTER" tribute (with it's famous theme sonata, Cavatina)
[video:2iy6wriw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3s5LjyFl18[/video:2iy6wriw] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3s5LjyFl18 
DEER HUNTER:   A super crazy review from American radio!    ::  --- Is this normal US radio?!?
[video:2iy6wriw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnUfwEr1PF4[/video:2iy6wriw] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnUfwEr1PF4 
FULL METAL JACKET: 
[video:2iy6wriw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSQ2WRoqOCA[/video:2iy6wriw] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSQ2WRoqOCA 
GOOD MORNING VIETNAM:
[video:2iy6wriw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgvY4dlAiGU[/video:2iy6wriw] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgvY4dlAiGU 
HAIR - the classic hippie musical: 
[video:2iy6wriw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhNrqc6yvTU[/video:2iy6wriw] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhNrqc6yvTU
.

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## Zubr

So basically Оля what you do is watch horror movies and American blockbusters, find them bad for some reason (poor acting or whatever comes to mind) or, to the best, entertaining, and then you go on about "foreign films" and "western cinema" -- are you serious?
Would you find it fair if I picked some Russian pop band and, based on this, went on criticizing popular Russian music?
In other words, I think you should call things by their name. Hollywoodian cinema is not "foreign films". And you should not judge a whole genre by the worse movies which belong to it. There are actually some good horror movies, why don't you watch Jack Clayton's "The Innocents" (1961) for example? I've watched it a dozen times and the little boy's verses still make me chill.

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  So Olya, let me ask you this (and I ask with sincerity) ... story line aside... what about the rest of the movie? The things that it won Oscars for, did you find those at all to help the film have any redeeming value or was the storyline so upsetting for you that it would not matter how good everything else was, it was too distracting for you? 
> The reason I ask, I know that there are times when even one piece of dialogue (maybe it is not right for the character or would not have been said at the time the story took place), one wrong continuity, or some other little distraction... can ruin an otherwise fantastic film for people. So if this is the case, if the story line itself (or the main character) was such a distraction for you, even with the rest of the film being the cream of the crop, 50 awards, is it a film you would never recommend on any level? 
> Just wondering, 'cus ya know, I am the curious type when it comes to this stuff.    To be honest, I don't remember the film very well, and I don't remember the whole plot in details, even. But I remember very well all my impressions about this film. I can tell you that I didn't like the acting AT ALL (I don't remember supporting roles, though). The story line told us that the man and the woman loved... no, LOVED each other. I didn't see that at all. I only saw vain attempts to imitate love. All those "love" things in the film were boring to me.
> I must add, however, that we Russian viewers are used to a very high level of acting we saw in our films (I think many Russians even don't realize that). So an acting which won Oscar could look just very pale and even just bad from Russian dainty point of view. To be quite honest, I see _really good acting_ (in my opinion) in foreign films _very rarely_. At best, acting in foreign films is just "okay" to me.
> P.S. If you are interested, the only foreing actor who convinced me that he can play not worse, and even better than some Russian actors, was Alan Rickman.

 Olya! I have now watched "The English Patient" and I must admit... YOU ARE CORRECT!   ::   
This movie is not so great. I had not missed much by not watching it all these years. I could have happily not watched it my entire life and been just fine. I do belive that the awards the film won for, were valid. The "artistic" part of the movie was very nice and the music that went with it was lovely; however.... the acting and script, for me, were just so-so. And, if you had not told me in advance what it was about, I would have been lost and would have had to rewatch the entire thing to understand it and I'm not certain it was worth doing so.  
Maybe back 13 years ago, it was a BIG gottcha ending, but it just did not do that for me. In all honesty, if he loved her that much, he would have fought harder for her. He could have carried her (she only had a broken ankle) or explained more to the people what had happened and why he needed help.  
The only scene that really got me was the one with Kip detonating the bomb and the tanks driving over the bridge. 
Also, I was retelling your posting to my daughter about how a man killed all these people to rescue his one love, and she finished your sentence for you by saying "Oh and of course, we think that is oh, so romantic. We don't care about all the other people who had wives."

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## Оля

> So basically Оля what you do is watch horror movies and American blockbusters, find them bad for some reason (poor acting or whatever comes to mind) or, to the best, entertaining, and then you go on about "foreign films" and "western cinema" -- are you serious?

 Zubr, please read my post more carefully - I didn't say that all western cinema is bad. I wrote quite the opposite.   

> Would you find it fair if I picked some Russian pop band and, based on this, went on criticizing popular Russian music?

 Well, you know, basically, even good pop music doesn't have the same value as,... say, more serious music. I am not a very musical person, so I'd prefer not to talk much about music. However, even if I do admit that there is really good pop misic, I will never say that it touchs me as much as [let's write here "the music I really love", because the question is too extensive].   

> And you should not judge a whole genre by the worse movies which belong to it.

 As far as I understand, the film I mentioned, "White Single Female" does not belong to the the worst movies of that genre at all. Then again, I, too, don't think so. My point actually was that I don't see any "high" sense even in good horror movies, generally. I'm not talking about genius films, like "Vertigo", because genius things are genius things.   

> I've watched it a dozen times and the little boy's verses still make me chill.

 I haven't seen this film, probably I'll watch it. But you obviously missed my point. As I said, chill is not the first thing I want to feel when watching a movie. What I meant, is that in the most of foreign movies, I feel lack of something what would touch my best feelings deeply in my heart. Sorry for my slobbery English here, can't express it better. 
P.S. You are French, so I suppose you know the film "Deux Hommes Dans La Ville"?.. That's a film which excited me a lot, for example.

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## rockzmom

All... 
I think it goes back to an older posting I wrote. What is the purpose of cinema or any art form? Is it to entertain, to teach, to unite?  
Each art has its own purpose and each person has their own unique experience that they bring to the art and will take away from the art. 
Is a Peanuts cartoon any less worthy than a Degas? Should Scooby Doo be looked down upon because it is in the same genre as Film, Film, Film? Should we never make a horror film like Texas Chainsaw Massacre because all it does is scare people and has no redeeming value? There are many people out there who watch movies just to enjoy them. They watch them purely for the fun of them, the entertainment. They don't care about the inept scripts, inaccurate settings or any other of the millions of things which are technically wrong with the film. They are there simply to enjoy and have an hour or so to escape. And I admit to this... upon occassion you can find me reading trashy novels or watching "stupid worthless" tv  shows   ::   
But then again, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

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## Hanna

> upon occassion you can find me reading trashy novels or watching "stupid worthless" tv shows

 Ditto (=me too). Every now and then something populistic and very simplified is all you have mental energy for... There is definitely room for such entertainment.  
HOWEVER -- When I look around me I think there is a bit too much of the type of culture that appeals to the lowest common denominator. One of the good things about "state TV" is that it tries to educate people and raise the intellectual level in the country. Watching without commercials is much nicer.  I grew up with such a regime and I don't regret it although certain phenomenons got a "cool" status as "forbidden fruit", like TV commercials and certain types of programming - how silly that seems now.  
It's sad in a way that there are people who spend half their time in front of the TV / video but don't know anything about art, litterature, theatre, political issues or history.... But they could tell you the colour of the underwear of the contestants in Big Brother or the names of Victoria Beckhams kids...  
I'm in two minds about it --- in extreme moments I think all junk entertainment should be banned... But the next day I find myself reading the Daily Mail or watching "Britain's got talent" (but I draw the line at Big Brother!!!)  
I think the internet and broadband is changing everything though, and things will never go back to how they were. Because of the internet there is complete freedom of choice - People can watch more or less whatever they want, whenever they want.... so you can choose to widen your horizons or indulge in unlimited amounts of junk....

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## Оля

> In all honesty, if he loved her that much, he would have fought harder for her. He could have carried her (she only had a broken ankle) or explained more to the people what had happened and why he needed help.

 Yes! That's exactly what I think and what I was thinking when watching the movie! Why didn't he carry her, I couldn't understand that! Leaving her in that cave was just sheer lunacy. I think if I were in a similar situation, even I, a woman - I would never leave my man there; I would drag him, after all.

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## Оля

> All... 
> I think it goes back to an older posting I wrote. What is the purpose of cinema or any art form? Is it to entertain, to teach, to unite?  
> Each art has its own purpose and each person has their own unique experience that they bring to the art and will take away from the art.

 Art should elevate, ennoble man. It's well-known. That's its goal. That's not quite true that each art has its own purpose. The general purpose is common. Art should provoke best feelings. That's the way it was in all epochs. The ancient Greeks went to the theatre in order to experience the catharsis. People never created artworks for provoking hate, fear, or disgust. 
Another question is if cinema should be art or not. For me, it should.
As for stupid TV shows and stupid/bad movies – I watch them sometimes, too. Everyone watches them, one way or another. But why can't I say that some disposable one-time film I've watched is worse than other film, a good one? Why should we start politically correct talking like "but why are films made for?" There are films made for making money and watched for killing time, but those films are not art, that's all. Let's call things by their right names.

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## rockzmom

> Art begins when one person, with the object of joining another or others to himself in one and the samefeeling, expresses that feeling by certain external indications. To take the simplest example: a boy, having experienced, let us say, fear on encountering a wolf, relates that encounter; and, in order to evoke in others the feeling he has experienced, describes himself, his condition before the encounter, the surroundings, the woods, his own light heartedness, and then the wolf's appearance, its movements, the distance between himself and the wolf, etc. All this, if only the boy, when telling the story, again experiences the feelings he had lived through and infects the hearers and compels them to feel what the narrator had experienced is art. If even the boy had not seen a wolf but had frequently been afraid of one, and if, wishing to evoke in others the fear he had felt, he invented an encounter with a wolf and recounted it so as to make his hearers share the feelings he experienced when he feared the world, that also would be art. And just in the same way it is art if a man, having experienced either the fear of suffering or the attraction of enjoyment (whether in reality or inimagination) expresses these feelings on canvas or in marble so that others are infected by them. And it is also art if a man feels or imagines to himself feelings of delight, gladness, sorrow, despair, courage, or despondency and the transition from one to another of these feelings, and expresses these feelings by sounds so that the hearers are infected by them and experience them as they were experienced by the composer.

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## Оля

Firstly, at Tolstoy's times, there was no cinema. Or, to be more precise, the cinema that existed then already, he didn't consider as art. I think if he could find out that people in the XXth century would make movies like "Children of the Corn", he would turn over in his grave. 
But okay, let's talk about his quote. Listen, do you think the boy wants to earn money when he narrates his story?  :: 
I even don't think that he wants to frighten the listeners. Well, maybe, sometimes, if he tells such a story to his friends, he does. But I don't think that's what Tolstoy meant, because when you tells a story just to frighten the listeners, you don't feel true fear yourself, and there is no complete sincerity in your story. What the Tolstoy's boy wants, is _to share_ his adventure with others (not to frighten them), or to free himself from his fear, or the both. And he doesn't actually think what happens in hearts of the listeners. He's occupied with his own emotions, and that's right, that's when a true sincere story comes out. A boy would be sincere to the limit. His main goal is to share his experience, his emotions, his fear with others. If he narrates badly, not sincerely, you will feel falsity and will not be imbued with his story, you will not pity him. Even if the story is not true, he should tell it sincerely, and only in this case we'll believe him. 
But when a director starts to shot a movie, it's not that simple. Do you really think a script writer always really wants to share with us his fear of some crazy man who deceives and murders people, and that's the true script writer's goal?
However, a film is always made by many people, and many people can't act, think, and respire like one person. It happens rarely even when the film is good. Only a genius director can make many people to act like one person and infect them all with a common idea.
The other main thing is that all those people who are making the movie earn money by doing that. I am sorry, but we can't compare all those people making their money with one boy who really simply wants to tell us a story, even if he only invented it.

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## sperk

> Firstly, at Tolstoy's times, there was no cinema.

 Thank God. I think that's why literature is dead, everyone wants their book turned into a movie.

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## translationsnmru

Apropos of the purpose of art:  

> "I know this much, is all," Franny said. "If you are a poet, you do something beautiful. I mean, you're supposed to _leave_ something beautiful after your get off the page and everything. The ones you are talking about don't leave a single, solitary thing beautiful. All that maybe the slightly better ones do is sort of get inside your head and leave _some_thing there, but just because they _do_, just because they know how to leave _some_thing, it doesn't have to be a poem, for _heaven_'s sake. It maybe just some kind of terribly fascinating, syntaxy droppings—excuse the expression." 
> J.D. Salinger, _Franny_

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## rockzmom

> First[s:1uipvpnk]ly[/s:1uipvpnk], at Tolstoy's times, there was no cinema. Or, to be more precise, the cinema that existed then already, he didn't consider it as art. 
> I even don't think that he wants to frighten the listeners. (I think it should be ... _"I don't even think"_... but I am not certain as both sound odd to me.) 
> But I don't think that's what Tolstoy meant, because when you tell[s:1uipvpnk]s[/s:1uipvpnk] a story just to frighten the listeners....  
> If he narrates badly, not sincerely, you will feel falsity and will not be imbued (okay, I had to look this word up, and it means: influenced as if by dyeing or to inspire, or influence thoroughly "the spirit that imbudes the new constitution" is that what you were going for?) with his story, you will not pity him.  
> But when a director starts to shoot a movie, it's not that simple. Do you really think a script writer always really wants to share with us his fear of some crazy man who deceives and murders people, and that's the true script writer's goal?
> However, a film is always made by many people, and many people can't act, think, and [s:1uipvpnk]respire[/s:1uipvpnk] breathe like one person. It happens rarely even when the film is good. Only a genius director can make many people [s:1uipvpnk]to[/s:1uipvpnk] act like one person and infect them all with a common idea. (Olya, _infect_- very interesting word choice here! I never would have thought of that!)

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## Оля

> Originally Posted by Оля  First[s:47h7ri0p]ly[/s:47h7ri0p], at Tolstoy's times, there was no cinema.

 I meant "first*ly*" ("first of all").

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## E-learner

> Originally Posted by Оля  I even don't think that he wants to frighten the listeners. (I think it should be ... _"I don't even think"_... but I am not certain as both sound odd to me.)

 "I don't think that he even wants to frighten the listeners."
Is this any better?

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## rockzmom

[quote=Оля] 

> Originally Posted by "Оля":2bhzc6gw  First[s:2bhzc6gw]ly[/s:2bhzc6gw], at Tolstoy's times, there was no cinema.

 I meant "first*ly*" ("first of all").[/quote:2bhzc6gw] 
I know dearest one... go check out the English thread..

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## rockzmom

[quote=E-learner] 

> Originally Posted by "Оля":3ak1r93n  I even don't think that he wants to frighten the listeners. (I think it should be ... _"I don't even think"_... but I am not certain as both sound odd to me.)

 "I don't think that he even wants to frighten the listeners."
Is this any better?[/quote:3ak1r93n] 
Oh yes, much better e-Learner!  
I believe, from learning so much since being on this forum, you can even remove the "that" from the sentence. (I now notice how much I use the word "that" in my writing.) 
"I don't think even he wants to frighten the listeners" or would it be "I don't think even he wants to frighten his listeners" ??? 
I really must try not to correct English when my head hurts!

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## CoffeeCup

There was said a lot for how the Russian movies (art, theater's acting, music, etc.) are fantastic and incredible with respect to all the foreign arts. I would say a few words about what bores me in the Russian art. There are two things: First one is "totalitarianism" and second one is "aspiration to compassion". 
"Totalitarianism" – there is nothing related to our government's ruling of art. To take the simplest example: a person admired some artwork of a master. He thought that this artwork is the best. After that he started to neglect all the other artworks by all the other masters. As a result we have the mainstream in art. This mainstream is polished with each new artwork. But there are now any new waves in the art. The art has become conservative and does not give us any new impressions or feelings. The art is perfect but dead. Period. The art of movie can't be used only in one Stanislavsky's way of human soul. When you are listening to music which is without lyrics or seeing a painting full of sunflowers is the human soul the only thing you are looking for in these artworks? NO. Movie is also an art and can be used for the same purposes as music and paintings: to give new impressions or feelings and these impressions are not obligated to be connected to some human soul.
I love the line:  

> "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

 "Aspiration to compassion" – very frequently some people mix two things "love" and "compassions" (or "feeling pity for smth"). If a person suffers a lot you regret of it and feel compassion to that person. The more suffering – the more compassion. After some time you start to think you love this person just for the compassion you feel. Here the simple formula emerges for making your art be loved: Make you main character suffering as much as possible and people will feel compassion and love your character. If people love your character they love your art. IT SUCKS.  

> they provoke catharsis and compassion. That's what I want to feel having watched a movie.

  

> I HATE the film "The English Patient" ... in the name of "love". Listen, he gave secret maps to fascists!!! Having got those maps, fascists captured a city...

 Maybe it is really bad to sacrifice a city for saving only your beloved. But back to the movie "The cranes are flying": Listen, Veronika betrayed her beloved for nothing. What if Boris would survive and meet Veronika married another man??? It's disgusting. The more disgust is pushed in to the story the more compassion some people feel. I hate this movie. This is the worst Russian movie.

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## rockzmom

> "The cranes are flying"...I hate this movie. This is the worst Russian movie.

 CoffeeCup... Please, would you expand on this one? I ask of you the same types of questions I asked Olya. What are the reasons for you not liking this movie as you know how much I did enjoy this film.  
I actually agree with you about Veronika's character faults, she was a b@tch for leaving Boris. Yet that was the setup for the rest of the movie and allowed the actors to show how well they can actually act. Watching her torment and inner strugle and how well she portrayed those emotions on the screen, the deepth of her despair, her self loathing at what she had done. Uncle Fyodor's struggle with liking Veronika, yet trying to remain loyal to his on flesh and blood. These actors and the script writing for this movie, IMHO, were right on the money. They were realistic. Now, her jumping ship so quickly... that I did not exactly understand and it might have to do with the translation from Russian to English, yet I let that one slide. Otherwise, the rest of the movie worked and covered a number of taboo issues and did so rather amazingly. Had a film in Russia ever talk about dodging the draft before?  
So, now PLEASE let me know your thoughts... was it the story that turned you off? That Veronkia betrayed Boris? Or was it much more than that?   

> there is nothing related to our government's ruling of art.

 This is an excellent point. I tend to forget this. How did it all work back then. Did the government fund everything? Were aspiring actors given training and never had to worry about where their next meal came from? Or what did happen to actors, directors and scriptwriters if the film did poorly in the box office or if leaders were not pleased with the final product? How was a film made if a scriptwriter had a script that he/she wanted to make and it was not say "approved material" was there a black market film business? Forgive me if my questions sound stupid or naive... I just honestly have no frame of reference for this. I only know about the history of American cinema and the big Hollywood studios and contract players and how United Artists all came about. 
So, please, help educate me once again.   ::

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## Оля

> When you are listening to music which is without lyrics or seeing a painting full of sunflowers is the human soul the only thing you are looking for in these artworks? NO. Movie is also an art and can be used for the same purposes as music and paintings: to give new impressions or feelings and these impressions are not obligated to be connected to some human soul.

 There is an oxymoron here: _impressions and feelings_ ARE connected to human soul by their very definition.
Then again, music with lyrics or without touches your _soul_, not your heels or stomach.   

> Listen, Veronika betrayed her beloved for nothing. What if Boris would survive and meet Veronika married another man??? It's disgusting. The more disgust is pushed in to the story the more compassion some people feel. I hate this movie. This is the worst Russian movie.

 Obviously you never watched this movie carefully. Boris's brother _violated_ her, didn't he? I don't remember the plot very well now, so Rockzmom please tell us if it was so.* The morals at those times were so that a girl could not act in another way in a situation like that. She _had_ to marry him. However, I don't think that the whole film is about compassion for Veronika only. I rather feel compassion for Boris... And for all people who had beloved and lost them in war. 
*I've just re-watched that scene. He did.

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## CoffeeCup

> So, now PLEASE let me know your thoughts... was it the story that turned you off? That Veronkia betrayed Boris? Or was it much more than that?

 Three things make me to dislike this movie.
First: silly and fake idea of the story. This dark spot gives the shadow to the whole movie.
Second: Veronika had no backbone whatsoever.
Third: the plot only aim is mental suffering and compassion. I don't see any difference if there was a maniac physically torturing a chained and strapped victim all the movie long. The only difference is that the victim would wish to escape while Veronica doesn't.   

> So, please, help educate me once again.

 I am not an expert in the Russian movie history. Everything below is just a common sense.  

> Did the government fund everything?

 The government did fund everything. Not every movie, but EVERYTHING. The government was the only monopoly which managed money all over the USSR. Of course, there was some selection what a movie to fund what not to fund.  

> Were aspiring actors given training and never had to worry about where their next meal came from?

 Yes, and not only actors. Everyone was condemned to education and then to work. Even if someone did nothing he had some work and some salary. Of course, if someone did his work better he had better chances to get better work and better salary.  

> Or what did happen to actors, directors and scriptwriters if the film did poorly in the box office?

 Nothing happened. If the government gave money for a movie and did not get any profit in the box office, the government just covered the expenses by selling more missiles or fight planes to some third world countries.   ::    

> ... or if leaders were not pleased with the final product?

 They were exiled to Siberia (he-he-he).  ::  
Actually, you can imagine any big corporation leader disliking the results of his employee.  

> How was a film made if a scriptwriter had a script that he/she wanted to make and it was not say "approved material" was there a black market film business?

 There was only one monopoly which was able to fund the movie. So the scriptwriter had to correct his script if he really wanted to make the movie.

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## Hanna

Coffeecup, your responses were very funny and interesting! 
My understanding is that one of the reasons USSR cinema was able to make some artistically outstanding films was that profit-making (appealing to the largest possible audience) was not a factor that they had to worry much about. Economically I think it did not matter much to the director or the actors if the film was seen by 5 million people or 20 million... I think they were just paid a regular salary regardless. But those who were considered outstanding in their field were rewarded with things like nice houses and better consumer goods than what regular people had access to.  *The result of the lack of commericalism meant that they could focus more on artistic quality and less about creating a block-buster.* 
My impression (not sure what Russian people think about this) is that from the 1960s and forward there was no serious requirement of ideological content of the film as long as the film did not outright critisize the government. But several USSR films that I have seen have plenty of hints at problems with the government, or they are making political statements that are placed in a sci-fi or historical context (to circumvent censorship.) Large parts of the world, including many capitalist countries had (and still have) restrictions against outright criticism towards the government, so it's not really that unusual. 
But nobody would have tried to make an outright government-critical film and they wouldn't have recieved funding for it.

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## rockzmom

*WARNING… Spoil Alert... "The Cranes are Flying" …Spoil Alert…WARNING*   ::  I know..."OMG it's a wall of English text...Rockzmom has lost her frickin' mind!"   ::  
It will be good practice for y'all. Get yourself a cup of coffee or tea, and relax.   ::      

> Three things make me to dislike this movie.
> First: silly and fake idea of the story.

 This response surprises me. The first part of the story, we have the romance of Boris and Veronkia and then Boris signing up to go to war. He leaves his best girl behind and asks her to wait for him. This all seems very plausible to me.  
Then we have Veronkia's parents dying in a scenario which seems very possible, so I can buy that one.  
Next we have Veronkia getting married to Boris' cousin (Mark) who has always loved her and apparently took advantage of her (raped) and she had no choice but to marry him. What she should have done was ratted him out. Why, I don't know but she didn't. Her decision to marry him is a paradox. Yet, I could still buy this as it was a war time, she just lost her parents, and she was scared and in those days a woman was probably thought of as "dirty" or somehow wrong if that happened to her and she was not mentally all there, blah, blah, blah. And how would she explain not being a virgin any longer to Boris once he came home from the war? 
Now, the little boy scene... that was one of the ones I had a little trouble with. The expression in the industry is “jumping the shark” and it means when the plot just gets to absurd. I could see her wanting to end her life after all of this... She hates herself for what she has done, what has happened to her and she has become…but the whole little boy wandering into the street exactly at the same time and her never really looking for his parents. That is a bit much for me to swallow. 
Moving on, we have her husband (who we now know is a jerk) possibly two-timing on her and taking her most treasured possession in the world (besides her virginity), which of course was not in the apartment and blown to bits, because she took it with her to the air raid shelter. This (along with seeing him at the party) of course sends her over the edge and back to reality (finally, thank you) and gives her back the backbone you saw was missing...I can see all this happening as well.  
I can also see the whole Mark buying his way out of the Army as we now know he is a real slime ball. 
I also accept the ending with Uncle Fyodor siding with and taking Veronika over Mark as he really did like her all along and now he has proof his schmuck of a nephew really is a loser. This allows Fyodor to finally take Veronika back into the family. 
And there you have it, a fairly realistic story line. If you just take out the little boy scene, the rest of it really does work and is very plausible.  (are ya wavering yet coffeecup?)   
Have you ever heard of the Fighting Sullivan Brothers? I don't think the younger generation of Americans have so I am not certain how many foreigners know this story. I only know it because of my dad. 
(he still has this poster)   
The Sullivan’s were five brothers who all enlisted in the Navy for WWII on the ONE condition that they all serve together. Now normally the Navy separated siblings, but in this case, tragically they did not and all five of them were killed in action. 
Now, if you saw a movie with a plot about 5 brothers all enlisting and demanding to serve together and the Navy just turning a blind eye and actually letting them and THEN, and THEN...they all die within 8 days of each other...if you saw that movie without knowing the story line really happened in true life, it would seem pretty fake and silly (kind of jumping the shark), wouldn't it?? And it might just ruin the entire movie for you because it just turned you off and no matter how good everything else was in the film, you could not suspend disbelief and forget that there was a movie screen in front of you. 
So that plot compared to Cranes??? Cranes seems pretty resonable, no?  (come on coffeecup, your thinkin' I'm a little right now, ain't cha?)    

> Second: Veronika had no backbone whatsoever.

 What about Anna from, The Lady with the Dog? That was a character without a backbone! Both characters felt guilt about cheating on their man, yet I did not feel anything from Anna's character. Anyway, throughout the film, Veronika has to fight her way to see Boris. There are three times that she does this. She is actually fighting a sea of people, swimming upstream, against the flow to find HER man! As if all odds are against her. It is a foreshadowing of things to come of course. Yet, she never gives up, this chick has moxie, she just loses it for a while. (come on coffeecup, come on over to the dark side. It's okay, I have cream puffs waiting for ya.)    

> Third: the plot only aim is mental suffering and compassion. I don't see any difference if there was a maniac physically torturing a chained and strapped victim all the movie long. The only difference is that the victim would wish to escape while Veronica doesn't.

 I think there are two times she does want to escape. Once when she tries to kill herself and once when she tries to leave him but Uncle Fyodor stops her. And, IMHO, the plot is also about how people deal with their feelings during difficult times.  
Boris chose to enlist in the Army and serve his country even though he was young and could get out of serving while his cousin did just the opposite, he bought his way out. Was Mark against the war on principles? No, he just did not want to fight. Yet Boris, he wanted to serve. These are two very different character traits.  
The film also showed a female doctor and made the reference to if she had been born a man (at least in the English subtitles it says that). In any case, it was interesting to me that they showed a female surgeon, Irina. Back then in the U.S., how many films had female surgeons? They were showing only female nurses.  
Also, Uncle Fyodor had great depth as a character and the plot surrounding him and how he handled the situation of both his son and his nephew. He had lost his son to the war and now finds out his nephew had paid not to be drafted, would he be thankful or upset? This is a pivotal point. The character could have gone either way.  
So this movie is really a study and reflection of human nature and how we as humans (notice I am not saying Russians) deal with life. HOWEVER, this film offers so much more. To me, this film has a depth to it “artistically” and I know that this is a hot topic right now. What is artistic? When I saw this film, I saw so much more than light on transparent celluloid. I saw all the art forms working as one to make magic. And with the exception of the little boy scene, to suspend disbelief. I was brought into their world. They were no longer two dimensional flickering images. They became real to me.  (Game, set, match.) 
I'm tired now.

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## rockzmom

Okay... after that longggg posting...time for some fun! American TV style.  
This was on last night and it was one of the best episodic shows I have seen in YEARS! The show is called "Glee" and it is brand new. From start to finish this episode was (as Johanna would say) BRILLIANT!   ::   
I found the opening clip (it is cut a little short so you miss the dad's comments) and a clip from towards the end of the show. I have no idea how long they will stay up on Youtube. I also have a link so you can watch the entire episode if you want. As it is only the 4th show in the series, I think you should be able to just watch it without much trouble. 
IMPORTANT! NOW if you have NOT seen "Beyoncé - Single Ladies (Put A Ring On It)"
music video, you NEED to watch that FIRST to really appreciate all the humor. 
Beyoncé - Single Ladies (Put A Ring On It) - watch first if you have not seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mVEGfH4s5g 
Glee - Single Ladies Opening of the show (quality not so great, but only one up right now) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHTuWtJY1Ww 
Glee - Single Ladies (Football Team Dance) 09/23/09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U-Qz8yzxVQ 
Glee SE0104 full episode http://www.quicktvonline.com/2009/09/glee-s01e04.html

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## Оля

> Her decision to marry him is a paradox.

 Guys, it's not a paradox. It's a paradox only for a modern man who doesn't care a hang that women, and especially innocent girls, can't act and see things the same way as men do; and that there were times when people had different morals. Also, such a man can't understand that if you've just experienced a bombing, are half-conscious, and a man takes you in his arms and carries you somewhere - if you're an innocent girl, all that DOES NOT yet mean to you WHAT he's going to do with you now! ESPECIALLY at those times.   

> Yet, I could still buy this as it was a war time, she just lost her parents, and she was scared and in those days a woman was probably thought of as "dirty" or somehow wrong if that happened to her and she was not mentally all there, blah, blah, blah. And how would she explain not being a virgin any longer to Boris once he came home from the war?

 That's a very good explanation, Rockzmom, and especially the latter; it was actually her main reason, I think.   

> and her never really looking for his parents.

 Oh, Rockzmom, if you only knew how many kids were getting lost then! They just were not able to say where are they from and what is their surname and the parents' names, so how could one look the parents then? Then again, there was no Internet or TV there, so the search would not be something easy. And finally, I think she did try to find his parents; but it is soooo obvious that the director doesn't show that in the film.

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## Basil77

> If the government gave money for a movie and did not get any profit in the box office, the government just covered the expenses by selling more missiles or fight planes to some third world countries.

 You forgot to mention how these "sellings" were occured: USSR gave to some third world countries that equipment, but the money for those deals USSR never got. And modern Russia just canceled majority of this debts. Just guess who was paying in result. (И извини, конечно, Кофечашко, но если ты действительно так считаешь (что Советское правительство наживалось за счёт продажи оружия на странах третьего мира), то ты дурачок, ну а  в противном случае ты просто ...)

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  Her decision to marry him is a paradox.   Guys, it's not a paradox.

 Maybe I should have stated a "moral paradox" or an "ethical dilemma?" 
Example: the conflict between a moral injunction and a duty that cannot be fulfilled without violating that injunction. For example, take the situation of a parent with children who must be fed (the duty), but cannot afford to do so without stealing, which would be wrong (the injunction). Such a conflict between two maxims is normally resolved through weakening one or the other of them: the need for survival is greater than the need to abide by the law. 
In the case of the movie, Veronika has been raped by Mark. She is in love with Boris and is to marry him (the duty), yet she has the shame of what has happened to her (the injucntion). Can she really marry the man that just raped her ? Can she face Boris again knowing he will find out she is no longer a virgin? Can she face Boris' family knowing that she has betrayed Boris and married Mark? Can she face them if she tells them what Mark has done? She is in a no win situation. She has a need for survival.

----------


## CoffeeCup

> ... Just guess who was paying in result. (И извини, конечно, Кофечашко, но если ты действительно так считаешь (что Советское правительство наживалось за счёт продажи оружия на странах третьего мира), то ты дурачок, ну а  в противном случае ты просто ...)

 Мне очень жаль, что я задел Ваши чувства, уважаемый Базиль. Я не знал, что на форуме есть люди, которые из своих личных средств финансировали всю советскую военную промышленность, и их может сильно ранить тот факт, что страны, в которых людям нечего есть, до сих пор не выплатили им дивиденды. В следующий раз, когда мне захочется пошутить я буду использовать в качестве объекта шутки только медведей и балалайки. Надеюсь Вы не были руководителем совхоза по разведению медведей или школы обучения медведей игре на балалайках.

----------


## rockzmom

I can honestly say... I have never seen any of these movies!!!   *Worst of the Worst*
Counting down the worst reviewed movies of the last 10 years
(if you want to learn more about these movies here is the link http://www.rottentomatoes.com/guides/wo ... the_worst/) 
100	Whiteout (2009)	
99	Glitter (2001)	
98	Cheaper by the Dozen 2 (2005)	
97	Boat Trip (2003)	
96	All About Steve (2009)	
95	Lost Souls (2000)	
94	The New Guy (2002)	
93	A Sound of Thunder (2005)	
92	Babylon A.D. (200 ::  
91	Surviving Christmas (2004)	
90	Dragonfly (2002)	
89	Basic Instinct 2 (2006)	
88	Kaena: The Prophecy (2004)	
87	Testosterone (2003)	
86	Pavilion of Women (2001)	
85	Larry the Cable Guy: Health Inspector (2006)	
84	Thr3e (2007)	
83	Doogal (2006)	
82	Supercross: The Movie (2005)	
81	Extreme Ops (2002)	
80	Big Momma's House 2 (2006)	
79	The Adventures of Pluto Nash (2002)	
78	Deck the Halls (2006)	
77	Date Movie (2006)	
76	Johnson Family Vacation (2004)	
75	Son of the Mask (2005)	
74	Envy (2004)	
73	Gigli (2003)	
72	Broken Bridges (2006)	
71	College (200 ::  
70	New Best Friend (2002)	
69	The Cookout (2004)	
68	Yu-Gi-Oh: The Movie (2004)	
67	The Hottie & the Nottie (200 ::  
66	The Fog (2005)	
65	Swept Away (2002)	
64	Corky Romano (2001)	
63	Yours, Mine, & Ours (2005)	
62	Serving Sara (2002)	
61	Good Luck Chuck (2007)	
60	The Perfect Man (2005)	
59	88 Minutes (200 ::  
58	Christmas with the Kranks (2004)	
57	Godsend (2004)	
56	Because I Said So (2007)	
55	The Celestine Prophecy (2006)	
54	Harry And Max (2005)	
53	Modigliani (2005)	
52	The Bridge of San Luis Rey (2005)	
51	Fascination (2005)	
50	Dirty Love (2005)	
49	In the Name of the King: A Dungeon Siege Tale (200 ::  
48	BloodRayne (2006)	
47	Soul Survivors (2001)	
46	Material Girls (2006)	
45	My Baby's Daddy (2004)	
44	Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li (2009)	
43	Darkness (2003)	
42	House of the Dead (2003)	
41	Zoom (2006)	
40	Down to You (2000)	
39	Miss March (2009)	
38	Happily N'Ever After (2007)	
37	Code Name: The Cleaner (2007)	
36	The Whole Ten Yards (2004)	
35	Deal (200 ::  
34	The Haunting of Molly Hartley (200 ::  
33	Delta Farce (2007)	
32	Deuces Wild (2002)	
31	The Covenant (2006)	
30	Fear Dot Com (2002)	
29	Bless the Child (2000)	
28	Rollerball (2002)	
27	Battlefield Earth (2000)	
26	Kickin' It Old Skool (2007)	
25	Meet the Spartans (200 ::  
24	Texas Rangers (2001)	
23	The In Crowd (2000)	
22	Disaster Movie (200 ::  
21	Epic Movie (2007)	
20	Crossover (2006)	
19	Half Past Dead (2002)	
18	The Master of Disguise (2002)	
17	Twisted (2004)	
16	Daddy Day Camp (2007)	
15	Alone in the Dark (2005)	
14	Beyond a Reasonable Doubt (2009)	
13	Constellation (2007)	
12	Killing Me Softly (2002)	
11	Merci Docteur Rey! (2002)	
10	Witless Protection (200 ::  
9	Redline (2007)	
8	3 Strikes (2000)	
7	Strange Wilderness (200 ::  
6	Superbabies: Baby Geniuses 2 (2004)	
5	National Lampoon's Gold Diggers (2004)	
4	King's Ransom (2005)	
3	Pinocchio (2002)	
2	One Missed Call (200 ::  
1	Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever (2002)

----------


## Hanna

> if you only knew how many kids were getting lost then! They just were not able to say where are they from and what is their surname and the parents' names, so how could one look the parents then?

 That is such a tragic result of the war! I am so grateful my country was not affected -- but it took in lots of orphans whose parents could not be located. Probably USSR was the worst affected country, but Germany and many other countries also had lots of lost children.  
I remember a very touching Russian film about a group of Russian WW2 orphans who lived with a Moslem couple, don't remember the name of the film unfortunately, but it was good.  From Germany there is "*Suchkind 312*" _(Lost Child 312 - loose translation)_ which has been made into a film twice. A woman is on a refugee train and loses her daughter while she leaves the train to get some milk. The train leaves without her and in the chaos of the war, nothing can be done to re-unite them.  These stories really caught my imagination as a child. All so tragic and actually, most of these children are still alive! Here are some such stories:   *Suchkind 312* --- A German heart-wrenching classic about a mother and daughter who got separated during the last months of the war.   *"They called her Leni"* True story about a 1950s German girl who discovered that she was really Czechoslovakian, and went there.    *Kyra and Shurik* - True story about a nurse who adopts an orphan called Shurik during the siege of Leningrad. Both starve and freeze due to the blockade...     *"Hitlerjunge Salomon"* aka Europa, Europa..  A horrible TRUE story about a Jewish orphan boy who first fights with the Red Army, then gets adopted by a German couple who sends him to a Nazi boarding school. The man is still alive and lives in Israel.   
EDIT -- I found the Russian film I was talking about earlier. *"You are not an orphan"*. But no subs unfortunately..

----------


## Zubr

Смею посоветовать вам фильм _Долгие проводы_. Я про фильмы не умею говорить, особенно на языках не моих, итак просто перепишу его synopsis, вот:  

> Саша был смыслом всей ее жизни. Теперь, когда сын подрос, у нее появилось больше свободного времени - и она позволяла чуткому Николаю Сергеевичу ухаживать за собой. После летней поездки сына к отцу, она стала замечать в Саше перемены. Тайком прочитав письмо его отца, поняла, что сын хочет уехать. Ей не хватило мудрости для правильного поведения и понимания не своей жизни. А Саша оказался тоньше и сильнее матери. Поняв, что мать страдает, он отказался от своего решения.

 Можно посмотреть отрывок из фильма сюда: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no1jzz05tvI 
(Кстати, «она позволяла чуткому Николаю Сергеевичу ухаживать за собой» звучит очень странно для меня, а для русских нормально?)

----------


## Звездочёт

> Смею посоветовать вам фильм _Долгие проводы_. Я про фильмы не умею говорить, особенно на языках не моих, итак просто перепишу его синопсис (краткое описание/содержание, аннотацию), вот: <...> Можно посмотреть отрывок из фильма [s:29h892v8]сюда[/s:29h892v8] здесь: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no1jzz05tvI 
> (Кстати, «она позволяла чуткому Николаю Сергеевичу ухаживать за собой» звучит очень странно для меня, а для русских нормально?)

 1)
Несовершенный вид: _можно посмотреть здесь/там_, _ходить здесь/там_
Совершенный вид: _обязательно посмотрите сюда/туда_, _пойти туда/сюда_ 
2)
Фраза нормальная. А что в ней смущает?

----------


## Звездочёт

> Саша был смыслом всей ее жизни. Теперь, когда сын подрос, у нее появилось больше свободного времени - и она позволяла чуткому Николаю Сергеевичу ухаживать за собой. После летней поездки сына к отцу, она стала замечать в Саше перемены. Тайком прочитав письмо его отца, поняла, что сын хочет уехать. Ей не хватило мудрости для правильного поведения и понимания не своей жизни. А Саша оказался тоньше и сильнее матери. Поняв, что мать страдает, он отказался от своего решения.

 The main idea of the film is monstrous for me. A mother is a life, and a death, is a death for an individuality will.

----------


## Zubr

> 2)
> Фраза нормальная. А что в ней смущает?

 Кажется, в ней местоимение _собой_ указывает не на мать, а на Николая Сергеевича.

----------


## Звездочёт

Аааа.  :: 
С точки зрения грамматика ты, вообще-то, прав. Хотя из-за контекста я эту ошибку не заметил, и вряд ли кто из носителей (если только он не очень щепетилен) заметит.

----------


## Lampada

> ...(Кстати, «она позволяла чуткому Николаю Сергеевичу ухаживать за собой» звучит очень странно для меня, а для русских нормально?)

 Если бы местоимение _собой_ указывало не на мать, а на Николая Сергеевича, то фраза звучала бы так:  _она позволяла ...Николаю Сергеевичу ухаживать за самим собой_.

----------


## Звездочёт

> Если бы местоимение _собой_ указывало не на мать, а на Николая Сергеевича, то фраза звучала бы так:  _она позволяла ...Николаю Сергеевичу ухаживать за самим собой_.

 Ммм... думаю, это не обязательно. Просто выражение распространено, и глагол "ухаживать" в таком контексте применим обычно к женщине. Поэтому ясно, о чём идёт речь.

----------


## Оля

> Хотя из-за контекста я эту ошибку не заметил, и вряд ли кто из носителей (если только он не очень щепетилен) заметит.

 Я не вижу тут ошибки. "*Она* позволяла ухаживать *за собой*". Совершенно нормальная фраза. С точки зрения грамматики она не ошибочная, а двусмысленная. Но с точки зрения контекста тут никакой двусмысленности нет.

----------


## rockzmom

I met Kenny Johnson YEARS ago when I first started to study film in LA. His son, David, attended the same college I was at and we were in several classes together. At that time, Kenny was filming his TV mini-series "V" and it was the first location set I "remember" being on. Interestingly enough, there is a remake of "V" coming out this year on ABC yet he has nothing to do with that remake as the studios own the TV series rights!  
For all of you SciFi buffs, he will be in Moscow in a week!   http://www.kennethjohnson.us/Classes.html (English)  

> http://www.cinemotion.ru/cinemotion/main_article_cont
> Кеннет Джонсон — создатель, сценарист, продюсер и режиссер таких сериалов, как «Невероятный Халк» и «V», римейк которого выходит в этом сезоне на одном из главных каналов США — «ABC». Кеннет неоднократно был номинирован на различные премии, в том числе на Премию Гильдии Сценаристов. В 1996 году он получил награду журнала «Sci-fi Universe» за многочисленные достижения (Lifetime Achievement Award). 
> 29 октября. Кеннет Джонсон.  «Создание пилотного эпизода. Как рождаются сериалы»
> Мы предлагаем вам уникальную возможность лично встретиться с автором, работавшим более чем над 10 сериалами. 
> Вы сможете узнать: 
> В чем специфика сценария пилотного эпизода?
> Как написать сценарий пилотного эпизода так, чтобы заинтересовать продюсеров и каналы?
> Как представить персонажей и ввести в пилотный эпизод завязки будущих сюжетов?
> Какие идеи имеют потенциал развития на протяжении нескольких сезонов?
> ...

----------


## CoffeeCup

Let's talk a little bit about Russians invasion to Hollywood. Couple-three days ago I was in a store and saw a DVD box from which an unshaved man wearing a horn-rimmed glasses fixed with a tape looked at me holding tightly in his hands a guitar and a sword. My mind was flashed with the memory of the movie I've seen ten yeas ago. I grabbed the DVD straightaway and put myself into the stream of the movie entitled "Six-String Samurai".    

> Six-String Samurai is a post-apocalyptic kung-fu-rock & roll road movie depicting America where guitar-slinging swordsmen wage battle to succeed a recently deceased Elvis as the king of Lost Vegas.

 Even though the movie start point is the fact that a Russian nuclear bomb made the US to be a desert and during some scenes the main character defeated the Red Army, these points are just the screenplay features which I am sure were not intended to put a black spot on Russia but to put the main character in more troubles than one can expect. 
So, if the Red Army is not the Russian invasion to Hollywood I am talking about, what else in the movie the Russian invasion is? It is the music! The entire movie is accompanied with the music by the Russian based band "Red Elvises". You even can see them in the movie: the guys with "nice shoes". 
Some fun stuff: Red Elvises being Russian speak English in the movie's scenes while the actors for Red Army general and lieutenants being non-Russian speak Russian with remarkable accent.

----------


## rockzmom

The power of good acting, of an audience, and a big screen. 
Last night, I attended a film festival and was reminded of a few things. 
First, I was reminded that sometimes you really need to see a movie in a movie theater WITH people to properly experience and appreciate the film. To have people around you sniveling and crying. To hear them laughing through their tears. Or muttering “that little slut” at the same time you are thinking it. 
Secondly, I witnessed firsthand how good acting can save a movie. Last night I witnessed something amazing. During one of the screenings a film which started off really poorly, bad sound, bad camera work and even some really poor casting (two adult siblings … one was Hispanic and the other was Black... the audience actually laughed at that one)… and yet… part way through this film… magic happened. The audience, who was ready to rip this film apart, fell in love with this film and was actually crying at the end and it was all due to the acting. 
I have seen this particular film before, yet never with a large audience and never on a large screen. So for me this experience of seeing it with people was new and very interesting. It actually changed my perception of this film. I now understand WHY this film does so well in festivals. Before, last night I just could not for the life of me understand why it had won awards. Technically, the film is a train wreck (I should be fair and say it is by a first time director).  The acting I always thought was fairly good, yet I had no idea it sucked people in SO much that it help people to forgive all the negative things. During all the other films screened last night, there was NO audience reaction and yet with this film, there was right from the start (as I mentioned they laughed at the bad casting) and then when the main star came on, she drew the audience in and made them care about her and forget all about the bad technical work and focus on her. Her body language. Her lines. Her. And the audience fell for her hook line and sinker. I would not have believed it if I had not seen and heard it with my own eyes. People laughing out loud at all the right moments in the film and then crying at the end and then finally trying to laugh through their tears when she delivered perfectly two final witty lines. 
This actress saved this film and now after seeing this film WITH and audience and in a big theater, I finally understand WHY it does so well. 
Finally, it makes me wonder about other films we have been discussing.  Would I change my mind about them if I had seen them in a theater with an audience???   ::

----------


## starrysky

> To be honest, I don't remember the film very well, and I don't remember the whole plot in details, even. But I remember very well all my impressions about this film. I can tell you that I didn't like the acting AT ALL

 Well, I havent' yet read the whole thread but already found lots to comment on.  
First of all, I agree with Оля about "The Cranes Are Flying". I'd heard so much about it before I finally watched it and I was a bit disappointed. With the acting. It seemed WAY too theatrical. At the very beginning of the film when Veronika and Boris are running around Moscow and later when Veronika slaps Mark in the face - it seemed overacted. The camera work was interesting, of course. And it's not to say there were no redeeming moments in the film. I did like some parts of it. Just wouldn't call it a favourite. I might yet change my opinion if ever I get to rewatch it - but I'm not sure that's likely to happen.     

> To be quite honest, I see _really good acting_ (in my opinion) in foreign films _very rarely_. At best, acting in foreign films is just "okay" to me.

 Oh, I find lots of good acting in foreign films. I'm a fan of period drama, so I consider some of the BBC adaptations of English classics absolutely fabulous. I'm a huge fan of *"North and South"* (2004 - not to be confused with the film about American Civil War), *"Pride and Prejudice"* (1995), *"Wives and Daughters"*, *"Sense and Sensibility"* (1995), *"Wuthering Heights"* (1992), *"Jeeves and Wooster"*. If that's not good acting, I don't know what is. So thanks to watching those I now know quite a lot of fantastic British actors, like Michael Gambon, Richard Armitage, Emma Thompson, Justine Waddell, Ralph Fiennes, Hugh Laurie... And I _love_ Rowan Atkinson, he's a great comedian - *"The Thin Blue Line"* tv-series was hilarious.  
Turning to American cinema, "Titanic" and "Gladiator" are the first movies that spring to my mind as having great acting - still find myself crying every time I watch Rose being lowered in the life-boat and looking at Jack. Kate Winslet is a fantastic actress, as is Leo DiCaprio, though I've only seen him in "Titanic" and *"Catch Me If You Can"*, which I liked very much as well. Oh, and *"Some Like It Hot"* is a splendid comedy - Marilyn Monroe may not have been much of an actress, but the male leads are hilarious. Watched it recently with English subtitles, wouldn't have understood anything otherwise. 
And I just _love_ "Gilmore Girls", "The O.C." and "Friends". Some very good acting and script-writing going on there.    
The one thing that the Western filmmakers know is how to structure the story and make it enjoyable and entertaining. Think Disney - "Beauty and the Beast", "The Little Mermaid", "The Lion King", "The Sleeping Beauty"... And I'm not talking about the sequels to these animated pictures here, as I haven't seen them and don't think it's a very good idea. Those movies are not only about stunning visuals and beautiful music. Some very good thinking went into creating the plots. Well, Andersen's "Little Mermaid" got rather er... butchered is not a good word, but I can't think of any other right now. I love both stories. Andersen's is lyrical and poetical, Disney's - pure fun and entertainment.  
Not that the Russians don't know how to make a good story or write a fabulous script. Quite the contrary. But it wasn't made into a sort of ABC of how a story should be written. Perhaps it's a good thing, I don't know. But when I watch our "War and Peace" (the old film), for example, it strikes me that some scenes were a bit too long, or some shots weren't all that interesting - when Andrei Bolkonski is talking to his wife Lise at the beginning there aren't even any close-ups and it's such an important scene, establishing their relationship and everything. And who could possibly resist shooting as many close-ups of Anastasia Vertinskaya as possible, as she's so gorgeous? The modern adaptation with Clemence Poesy tried to address some of the issues of the book - to flesh out characters which were very vague and one-dimensional in the book, like Ellen and Anatole, to provide motivation for Natasha agreeing to elope with Anatole. I rather enjoyed some of these changes but the thing is, they managed to utterly destroy Natasha's character in the process. Clemence Poesy is very nice, but she's not Natasha, while Tatiana Samoilova is. Oops, sorry to go on about "War and Peace" - I'm sure most of the folks here haven't seen in ages, if at all. I've only recently read the book and watched three adaptations. I felt like such a punk not having read such a famous piece of literature. Didn't manage to do it in school - seemed way too boring, though I was quite a bookworm and swallowed "Anna Karenina" and "Quiet Flows The Don", which is the same length as "War and Peace". 
So, to come back to the Russian cinema - I also agree about other films that have been mentioned here, such as "The Thief". I enjoyed it quite a bit the first time I saw it but I'm not planning to re-watch it again. It's too depressing. 
Well, I guess I'll be back to you later when I've read the entire thread.

----------


## starrysky

> Finally, it makes me wonder about other films we have been discussing.  Would I change my mind about them if I had seen them in a theater with an audience???

 That's an interesting question. One thing that the theatre does is that it sucks you into the film, makes you sit through the whole of it and pay attention (I don't know how people manage to fall asleep in the cinema - even if the film is very boring, the sound is so loud). When you watch something on tv, if you don't like it from the start, you'll switch off directly, thus not giving it a chance, perhaps. 
I've had an interesting experience with the Lord of the Rings movie, The Return of the King. I first watched it in the cinema and didn't like it - the sound of the battles was too loud, the battles themselves scared me out of my wits, besides I haven't seen The Two Towers, so didn't understand the plot properly, and I suspect I was falling ill because I returned from the cinema with a temperature. Watching this movie on dvd at home, after having seen the second part, was a completely different experience.

----------


## Оля

> First of all, I agree with Оля about "The Cranes Are Flying". I'd heard so much about it before I finally watched it and I was a bit disappointed. With the acting. It seemed WAY too theatrical...

 I didn't write anything like that about "The Cranes Are Flying". I like this film. The quotation you made was about other film, "The English Patient".

----------


## starrysky

> Originally Posted by starrysky  First of all, I agree with Оля about "The Cranes Are Flying". I'd heard so much about it before I finally watched it and I was a bit disappointed. With the acting. It seemed WAY too theatrical...   I didn't write anything like that about "The Cranes Are Flying". I like this film. The quotation you made was about other film, "The English Patient".

 Sorry, got everything confused.   ::  I'd never say that I hate or even dislike "The Cranes Are Flying". I liked it when I watched it and couldn't help crying in some parts - this movie is certainly very emotionally-affecting and the emotions are portrayed very strongly. But two things put me off a little. First of all, when I sat down to watch it I expected it to be a film about war and self-sacrifice and it turned out there was hardly any war and no self-sacrifice. It's more about relationships, human frailty and the society which doesn't forgive mistakes. 
The second thing that bothered me was Samoilova's acting at the beginning. Especially the way she keeps repeating "Нет! Нет!" in the rape scene, it seemed very unnatural. Couldn't she start crying or something, instead? I'd feel more sympathy for her in that case. I certainly think that the whole scene is a bit more complicated than simple "rape". She does bear some blame. Did she absolutely _have_ to marry Mark, when he is obviously such a scoundrel? Well, she might not have known it then and after the bombing she had no one left to turn to, except him and his parents. The thing is, imo, she didn't really have to marry him. It's not the 19th century when the morals were that strict, it's 1940s. Such prejudices might have been left in villages at that time but hardly in Moscow. The Soviet woman was a mistress of her fate in this respect. I guess it's the eternal question of how much imporatnce the circumstances have over us and how much power and free-will we have to resist them. I suppose I partly agree with *CoffeeCup* here in not being overly in love with Veronika as a character. Oh God, I'm acting the part of the "unforgiving society" here   ::  I do sympathise with her. The sure thing is that this film is thought-provoking.   ::   ::   
Those are my favourite war films (in bold)   

> Here are some Russian forceful war films I'd recommend to watch: 
> Проверка на дорогах *Офицеры*
> Летят журавли *Баллада о солдате*
> Восхождение (very forceful)
> Судьба человека *А зори здесь тихие*
> Расскажи мне о себе (the only one which is not very famous, but it touched me a lot)
> Иваново детство

 I'd add _"Звезда"_ (2002), _"В бой идут одни старики"_ and _"Гусарская баллада"_ (love the humour and the songs   ::  )
"Судьба человека" is a very good and touching movie just not a personal favourite. The others I haven't seen yet.
And here's a link to a thread about favourite war films on my local forum (though it includes foreign films as well) http://forum.academ.org/index.php?sh...2&st=0&start=0

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## CoffeeCup

> The power ... a big screen.

 A big screen, yeah, it changes a lot. 
First, it allows us to feel some sort of participating in the action. If you are delighted with the action of a movie and feel hunger for being a part of it, you should certainly go over the movie again on the big screen. 
Second, if the movie aim is not only to tell us a story through the characters talking, but also to give us some more specific impressions or feelings the big screen is the only way to get the full scent of these impressions.  
Third, of course, the landscape views are filmed only for the big screen. 
I am ultimately sure that these movies are the best when on the big screen:
- At Home among Strangers, Stranger at home
- Kin-dza-dza
- Solaris

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## CoffeeCup

> ... an unshaved man wearing a horn-rimmed glasses fixed with a tape looked at me holding tightly in his hands a guitar and a sword.
> ...   "Six-String Samurai"

 By the way, surfing the web I've found out that many people find the filming process, scenes' landscape, the movie line and the sci-fi world of the "Six-String Samurai" being close in some way to that of the "Kin-dza-dza".   ::

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## Оля

> I'd add _"Звезда"_ (2002)

 I know it's considered as a good movie, but I didn't like it. First of all, I didn't like acting. Igor Petrenko is too young or maybe not enough talanted, but he didn't convince me he was a person from 1930-1940 years. His eyes... They looked like he's just playing a role, not living in the USSR, being at war... I can't explain it better.   

> The Soviet woman was a mistress of her fate in this respect

 *Woman*, indeed. 
Also, I suppose you didn't live in those years. How could you know that marrying a man without being virgin was okay?

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## starrysky

> I know it's considered as a good movie, but I didn't like it. First of all, I didn't like acting. Igor Petrenko is too young or maybe not enough talanted, but he didn't convince me he was a person from 1930-1940 years. His eyes... They looked like he's just playing a role, not living in the USSR, being at war... I can't explain it better.

 Oh I agree about the poor acting. Petrenko - as hansome as he is   ::  - didn't seem to have done all that much on this movie - though perhaps that's just the role. And _the girl_ was, frankly, horrible (in terms of acting, natuarally). But for me there are three things that redeem the flaws of this film: 1) the beautiful music, 2) the heart-rending end - I cried my eyes out - when he keeps saying "Земля, земля, я звезда" and Vorobyshek dies, and then she answers, and the Germans are getting closer...     ::   and at the very end when the soldiers are shown going to Poland or somewhere and it's said that only 1 in a 100 of them is going to come back... it's awful... 3) some of the other guys played very well - for example, Анатолий Гущин, who played рядовой Быков - there's a moment when they're nearing his native village and he sees that it was burnt and some people were hanged - there's just such a look on his face - indescribably sad. I'd give him a prize just for that one look. 
I did hate it when they had to kill the first German they captured. Poor guy. Wars should never, ever happen.    

> Also, I suppose you didn't live in those years. How could you know that marrying a man without being virgin was okay?

 You're right, I suppose it's possible that she had no other choice. It's very difficult to struggle with life. I can't talk, anyway, as have no backbone whatsoever myself. Плыву по течению.

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## Оля

> Oh I agree about the poor acting. Petrenko - as hansome as he is   - didn't seem to have done all that much on this movie - though perhaps that's just the role.

 Oh, come on, the role was a great scope for showing good acting! An actor could only dream about such a profound role. Especially a Russian actor, I mean how much this war means for us, even nowadays.   

> And _the girl_ was, frankly, horrible (in terms of acting, natuarally).

 To be honest, I don't remember any girl there.   ::     

> But for me there are three things that redeem the flaws of this film: 1) the beautiful music, 2) the heart-rending end - I cried my eyes out - when he keeps saying "Земля, земля, я звезда" and Vorobyshek dies, and then she answers, and the Germans are creeping nearer...   and at the very end when the soldiers are shown going to Poland or somewhere and it's said that only 1 in a 100 of them is going to come back... it's awful... 3) some of the other guys played very well - for example, Анатолий Гущин, who played рядовой Быков - there's a moment when they're nearing his native village and he sees that it was burnt and some people were hanged - there's just such a look on his face - indescribably sad. I'd give him a prize for just that one look.

 Well, to me, a film is good only if everything is good in it, not only one or two episodes. As for other actors' acting, I don't remember it well, but I'm sure if there was anything extraordinary, I wouldn't have forgotten it. I remember that the film in general left me cold, but yes, the last scene touched me.   

> I did hate it when they had to kill the first German they captured. Poor guy.

 The one from the hospital? I dimly remember it, and I liked this episode. I don't mean I liked that they killed him. It was awful.

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## rockzmom

starrysky  to the thread and MR! 
Wow, your English is good. Ususally I try to correct the English posting of non-natives. Would you like me to make edits on your postings as well? Example:   

> Sorry, I got everything confused.  I[s:23ve98nt]&#39;d[/s:23ve98nt] never [s:23ve98nt]say[/s:23ve98nt] said that I hated or even disliked "The Cranes Are Flying".

 Just remember one thing, when you are posting to me, I am the one who does NOT know any Russian   ::    
Now as to your thoughts about "Cranes" and the rape scene and how life might have been back then. Thankfully, I have never had this experience, yet from the way it is portrayed in the news and in films/tv even today, it seems as this is one of the most horrific things to happen to a person AND each person reacts differently to the experience and situation.  
And then you have the dirty stigma of rape. Many women never admit to being raped because of exactly what you said, _"She does bear some blame."_ I guess you would also say it takes "two to tango":   

> Maryland lawmakers and children's advocates joined yesterday in criticizing a Montgomery County judge who said an 11-year-old girl was partly to blame for a 23-year-old man sexually molesting her because the girl invited him into her bedroom and "it takes two to tango."  
> Del. Cheryl C. Kagan (D-Montgomery) called Circuit Court Judge Durke G. Thompson's comments "an outrage" and said the state legislature's Women's Caucus plans to look into his handling of the case.  
> "It's clearly been a while since Durke Thompson has been in the company of 11-year-old girls; he doesn't realize how young and vulnerable they are," Kagan said. "His remark was ill-advised, naive and just dreadfully unfortunate

 ... and Director Roman Polanski is innocent as well? 
Did you know that currently in France,  the cost of hymenoplasty is actually reimbursed by the state in cases of rape or trauma?? That is how import being a virgin still is TODAY to many people. 
So, in the case of our poor Veronika... she had lost her parents. The man she THOUGHT was her friend and best friend of her fiancee, is now attacking her. The bombs are going off all around her... which is probably causing flash backs about her parents and making her also think about Boris and how is HE doing right then. The dust settles and she is left with what??? NOTHING. Her job and the piece of scum of the earth who loves her or so he says. AND what if, what if... she might be pregnant now??? How would she explain that one to everyone if she did not get married??? 
And yet, you also have the case here in the States of 115 girls in one high school who are pregnant! If that was going on back then, maybe our Veronika would have had other options? http://cbs2chicago.com/local/Robeson...2.1251642.html

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## starrysky

> Oh, come on, the role was a great scope for showing good acting! An actor could only dream about such a profound role. Especially a Russian actor, I mean how much this war means for us, even nowadays.

 Well, yes, seeing how this is the leading role, he could've done more with his facial expressions and all that stuff... I read the book by Kazakevich after watching the movie to understand the character better, and he is supposed to be very reserved, but, hey, that's no excuse.   ::     

> The one from the hospital? I dimly remember it, and I liked this episode. I don't mean I liked that they killed him. It was awful.

 Yes, him. He said he wasn't a Nazi... I felt awfully sorry for him. 
Thanks for the welcome, *rockzmom*.   ::   Do feel free to correct me - I'd be grateful. You know, it's so frustrating, I've been learning English, oh for so long now, and I still make lots of mistakes - have to constantly edit myself as always notice some mistake or other. This is partly because I'm always in a bit of a hurry when I post, partly because I lack practice - I read and listen a lot, but rarely get to speak English. So that's why I'm registered here and on a couple other English boards - to talk to all you guys and not lose the knack entirely.   

> I guess you would also say it takes "two to tango":

 Eh... We have a much ruder saying here - something along the lines "If the b..ch doesn't want it, the dog won't do it." Very rude. Certainly, it's outrageous to use something like this as an excuse for child-molesters! And I don't think it applies in Veronika's case. I see the rape scene as somewhat ambiguous because she could've shown a bit more fight, but it was rape all right. When I said that she does bear some responsibility for her unhappy situation, I meant her marrying Mark - no one forced her to do that except the circumstances. Which, it would seem, were difficult enough.

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## rockzmom

Quick change of topic here..... 
One of the short documentaries I saw at the Film Festival was "She Should Have Gone to the Moon."  I had never heard about this period of time in U.S. history or about Jerri Truhill. The film is funny, informative and very eye opening about an event not that long ago. Most of all it is inspirational to females. The only boring part is the part where they have the singer! OMG please shut her up!!! I also thought they should have mentioned Valentina Tereshkova & Svetlana Savitskaya...however... she really does stress that she wanted to be a "pilot" and they talk about Eileen M. Collins, the first woman to pilot NASA space shuttle. 
IMDb link http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1146163/ 
Link to 8 minute trailer on MegaVideo http://www.megavideo.com/?v=G8H9L72G 
Summary of film:
She Should Have Gone to the Moon presents a uniquely personal chapter in the history of the space race. It tells the astonishing story of the pilot and pioneer, Jerri Truhill, who was trained in 1961, as part of NASA's top secret Mercury 13 programme, to become on of the First Lady Astronauts. The documentary is a lyrical journey propelled by childhood aspirations, shattered dreams and a lifelong battle against female sterotypes and male prejudice. In the film, the tough talking and sharp witted Jerri Truhill looks back at her compelling life via a phone call with the filmmaker. This conversation becomes the catalyst for the director's imagining of key events in Truhill's potent narrative and inspires a journey to meet the heroine in Texas. Along the way the filmmaker places herself in Truhill's story, first wandering across the surreal landscape of White Sands and then suspended in zero gravity inside a water tank. Included are staged scenes, dreamt-up moments from Truhill's story, which evoke the popular melodrama of 1950s American cinema. These fictional moments bridge the gaps of time and distance between the filmmaker and her subject. Their stylised and dreamlike quality is counterpointed by shots from both Truhill's and NASA's film archive. The various strands produce the film's heady timeline, as they circle through real and imagined spaces, past and present.

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## rockzmom

I received an email that this month, The National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C. is showcasing films by Joseph Losey (1909-1984).  
Born in Wisconsin 100 years ago, Joseph Losey (1909-1984) made his mark in American cinema as the insightful outsider who distilled his style in exile, in London, England. A selection of Losey's rarely screened early work from the late 1940s through the 1960s, along with his three Harold Pinter partnerships, is included in this series.  
I located a two of the films online that they will be showing during this showcase:  The Servant is Harold Pinter's 1963 film adaptation of the 1948 novel by Robin Maugham. A British production directed by Joseph Losey, it stars Dirk Bogarde, Sarah Miles, Wendy Craig, and James Fox. 
The Servant is a tightly-constructed psychological dramatic film about the relationships among the four central characters examining issues relating to class, servitude, and the ennui of the upper classes.
(1963, 35mm, 112 minutes) 
link to watch  The Servant online  Accident 
Accident is Harold Pinter's 1967 dramatic film adaptation of the 1965 novel by Nicholas Mosley. Directed by Joseph Losey, it is the second of three collaborations between Pinter and Losey, the others being The Servant (1963) and The Go-Between (1970). At the 1967 Cannes Film Festival it won the award for Grand Prix Spécial du Jury. It is the debut film of actor Michael York.
(1967, 35mm, 105 minutes)  
link to watch Accident online. 
I looked, yet could not quickly locate a copy of "The Go-Between." If someone locates a copy, please post the link for it. Thanks.

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## rockzmom

I know, I know... double postings are a no-no... HOWEVER.... it just seems so WRONG not to repost this wonderful masterpiece about The Very Same Munchhausen which Vbar wrote and to also add the links... so that someone digging through this very long thread might come across it and say "WOW! I want to watch this movie!" and then be able to!!!  ::   
“The Very Same Munchhausen” (Тот самый Мюнхгаузен, Tot samyy Myunkhgauzen) 1979
(Comedy/Fantasy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Very_Same_Munchhausen 
Movie in Russian ONLY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiDHFbJZm9E ТОТ САМЫЙ МЮНХГАУЗЕН (1979) 1 1/7 
English Subtitles http://www.divxsubtitles.net/page_subti ... p?ID=65464 
OR http://narod.ru/disk/9511150000/Tot%20S ... D.srt.html http://narod.ru/disk/9511195000/Tot%20S ... D.srt.html 
For those of you who want to learn more about the "poem" (some would say the book) Orlando Furioso
Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Furioso
The poem translated into English http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/orlando-furioso-canto-1/   

> Some months ago (31st or 32nd of May) I saw a beautiful film directed by Mark Zakharov. 
> I was so impressed by this film that I gave a copy to a colleague of mine -- I have become a sort of  Italian ambassador for Soviet films among my colleagues. 
> There followed an interesting debate which I’d like to share.  
> The _Very Same Munchhausen_ is a film rich in humorous scenes and dialogues, perhaps with satirical allusions to contemporary events, but it is above all a story about a man who, despite Martha’s love, feels alone and misunderstood. Or rather, it is a story of man who, despite his love for Martha, fails to understand and accept his society, his city, his world.  
> In Ludovico Ariosto’s _Orlando Furioso_, it is said that all things that are lost on Earth could be found on the Moon. The Baron knows that on the Moon there exists the intelligence of many humans who on Earth are considered wise and sensible. This is perhaps the reason why the Baron wishes to go to the Moon (or rather, to return there). Reading these remarks, you could ask me the same question put to Ariosto: Ludovico, wherever have you found such rubbish? 
> - _Messer Lodovico, dove trovaste mai tante coglionerie?_ Господин Лодовико, где ты нашел такой вздор? 
> I believe that certain films, like certain poems or novels, are like dreams. And dreams always conceal a riddle which in turn conceals a desire, or its opposite, a fear. Like dreams, this film is made of desire and fear, of misleading and absurd perspectives, where each thing hides in itself another thing. We could say, to borrow some words from Calvino: The pleasure you derive from a film depends on the answer it gives to your question... or on the question the film asks you and to which it compels you to respond.  
> The Baron’s final embrace of Martha is a beautiful and tender gesture: with his arms and hands he cradles her head and presses it to his chest. It’s as if he wished to carry away with him her eyes, her mouth, her brain, and give her a little of his heart before travelling to the moon in search of something he could not find in his city. One could comment on the Baron’s final farewell to his city with the help of Calvino’s ever relevant words:
> “My dear citizens, _the inferno of the living is not something that will be. If there is one, it is what is already here, the inferno that we inhabit everyday, that we form by being together. There are two ways to not suffer it. The first is easy for many: accept the inferno and become such a part of it that you no longer see it._ (Baron, join us. Join us, baron. Господин барон, присоединяйтесь. Присоединяйтесь к нам, барон). _The second is risky and demands constant attention and apprehension: seek out and learn to recognize who and what, in the midst of the inferno, are not inferno—then make them endure, and give them space._ 
> ...

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## sperk

I saw this movie Deja Vu and thought it was really funny. The lead actor was very good. Those soviet movies have really  good set designs. English subs available at http://notabenoid.com/book/4097/13375/  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097253/ http://www.kinopoisk.ru/level/1/film/44394/

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## starrysky

"The very same Munchhausen" is one of my father's favourite films. Yankovsky is great in it and I like him in this film much more than I do in others. I first saw him in the "Militia Sergeant", an adaptation of the book by Lazutin which was a bestseller in the 50-60s, where he played a bad guy.  
In "Munchhausen", his character is likeable, if _somewhat_ quirky (khm, khm, more like very quirky), and he has a _moustache_. In other movies (at least those that I've seen) Yankovsky plays "baddies" and has no face growth.   ::   And of course, "Munchhausen" also has Churikova, who is fabulous, as always, and Yarmolnik who is terribly funny.  
I liked "Militia Sergeant" ("Сержант милиции") well enough, both the film and the book, and remember them fondly, even if I wouldn't call then a "must-see" and "must-read". I think, the film can be found at http://getmovies.ru here http://www.getmovies.ru/search.aspx?...86%D0%B8%D0%B8. 
The book is here http://www.lib.ru/PRIKL/LAZUTIN/serjant_milicii.txt  
Also, not meaning to change the focus but what about films from countries other than Russia, USA or UK? Do you guys watch them and do you have any favourites? I am by no means a cinema buff, in fact, I'm quite ashamed not to have seen any Fellini or Kusturiсa. Oh well, I'll get round to it yet, I suppose. French cinema is quite well-known and loved in Russia. And Indian as well. "Seeta aur Geeta" was a huge hit in the USSR. I've only seen about 3 Indian films, but I really like them - they're so vivid and colourful - a feast for the eyes. My favourites are *"Main Hoon Na"* (I'm Here) and *"Devdas"*. I also love some Chinese films, like *"The Hero"* and *"The House of Flying Daggers"*. They are just so beautiful and special, although totally different from Indian cinema, because they're tragic. Indian films usually have a happy end. I suppose I should post some reviews but I'm not sure I'm quite up to it, especially time-wise.

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## Hanna

*"Top 50 Cult Films Ever"* according to "Entertainment" magazine (US).  
But actually, I have only see three films on this list: The "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" , "Akira" and "Bladerunner". Should I be worried?  ::   
How many have you seen?     

> 1.  This Is Spinal Tap (1984)
>       "It's such a fine line between stupid...and clever."
>       "He died in a tragic gardening accident... Authorities said... it's best to leave it... unsolved." 
>    2. The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975)
>       "Hi, my name is Brad Majors..." (Asshole!) "...this is my fiancee, Janet Weiss." (Slut!) 
>    3. Freaks (1932)
>       "Gobble gobble, gobble gobble... We accept her... One of us, one of us..." 
>    4. Harold and Maude (1971)
>       Harold: "You sure have a way with people."
> ...

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## Hanna

> Also, not meaning to change the focus but what about films from countries other than Russia, USA or UK? Do you guys watch them and do you have any favourites? I am by no means a cinema buff, in fact, I'm quite ashamed not to have seen any Fellini or Kusturiсa. Oh well, I'll get round to it yet, I suppose. French cinema is quite well-known and loved in Russia. And Indian as well. "Seeta aur Geeta" was a huge hit in the USSR. I've only seen about 3 Indian films, but I really like them - they're so vivid and colourful - a feast for the eyes. My favourites are *"Main Hoon Na"* (I'm Here) and *"Devdas"*. I also love some Chinese films, like *"The Hero"* and *"The House of Flying Daggers"*. They are just so beautiful and special, although totally different from Indian cinema, because they're tragic. Indian films usually have a happy end. I suppose I should post some reviews but I'm not sure I'm quite up to it, especially time-wise.

 Excellent point Starrysky! 
I have to admit I don't know too much about films other than American/British,  Scandinavian, German... and maybe something about Russian and Japanese.  
Interesting to hear that French film is so popular in Russia. What is the reason, do you think?  
The last French film I saw was many months ago: "L'ecole - Innocence" a filmitisation of a book called "Minehaha" by Frank Wedekind. Very surreal, sweet and quite good. The book left a lot of room for improvisation and many points are never made clear.. The film draw some conclusions of its own in order to make the film more focused. (There is a very cheezy Italian filmatation of the same book - I didn't  like that at all. )

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## rockzmom

> *"Top 50 Cult Films Ever"* according to "Entertainment" magazine (US). 
> How many have you seen?  
> 1.  This Is Spinal Tap (1984)
>        2. The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975)
>        9. Blade Runner
>        10. The Shawshank Redemption (1994)
>        25. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (1971)

 We were just talking about Rocky Horror *THIS* week as one of older daughter's teachers was playing Time Warp in class and NONE of the students EXCEPT her knew the song! It is a great song and classic cult movie. I am a BAD, BAD, BAD mom as my kids have seen this movie as I OWN a VHS copy of it and the LP from the movie!!! (My girls are also fans of George Carlin! they love his Class Clown LP).  
I actually remember PMing with Lt. Columbo about Rocky Horror and asking him if he thought anyone on this forum would know about Rocky Horror or not. It is soooo funny because so many famous actors were in that movie... Tim Curry, Susan Sarandon, and Barry Bostwick. 
Anyway, here is a clip from The Drew Carey Show that has BOTH Rocky Horor AND Priscilla Queen of the Desert.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ZU5TJlbMU

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## Hanna

Rockzmom - I know British people know the "Rocky Horror Show"... I remember it because the name is memorable. But I have never seen it and I don't know what it's about.  But it's probably not known outside of the English speaking world though...  
Speaking about "cult" horror movies - I can't believe there's been a remake of "Children of the Corn"!  (an old-ish series of horror films with some very spooky religious kids)  Just saw it in a magazine today. 
I only know this series because an American girl I used to know brought several parts of it over to Sweden and everyone was hooked. LOL!!  After you've seen a couple of films from that series you'll never want to walk across a corn field again as long as you live.... !    
The other horror film series I remember is all those Italian ones by Dario Argentos. Class!  And oh yes, the "Omen" series. 
All about   ::   ::   ::   ::   ::   ::

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## devochka

Speaking about French cinema, has anyone here seen 'Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am%C3%A9lie)? It's one of my favorite movies, and the music is great too. I like French movies. I would also recommend 'Un long dimanche de fiançailles' (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344510/) and 'La tourneuse de pages' (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487503/). 
And do I have to be ashamed I haven't seen any of those cult movies?

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## rockzmom

French films... I believe mentioned before that I really liked the film Diva from 1981. I do own the DVD of this movie. 
Here is the subway chase scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oQQBtXr6YQ 
and here is the Aria scene with - Wilhelmenia Wiggins Fernandez http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hsmoo97CVA 
For those of you who want to know what she is singing about... here is what it says in the notes:  

> Fernandez sings the aria "Ebben? Ne andrò lontana", from Act I of Catalani's opera "La Wally." The piece is a haunting reverie on the theme of traveling alone and far from home. Catalani died in 1893 of consumption at the age of 39, only a year after the triumphant premiere of "La Wally" at La Scala.  
> This performance plays a prominent role in the 1981 French romantic thriller, "Diva" - and is an excerpt from the DVD. Roger Ebert, film critic for the Chicago Sun Times, rates the movie 5 stars out of 5. 
> This was one of the most frequently "favorited" videos on BestArts.  
> The opera, based on a German novel, has a libretto by the young Luigi Illica, who went on to collaborate on the texts for "La Boheme," "Tosca" and "Madama Butterfly." It tells of a wild, headstrong Swiss mountain girl who loves one local huntsman and is loved by another. Eventually she wins her true love, the pair embraces high in the Alps, an avalanche entombs the hero and she leaps after him to her snowy death.

 ------------  

> And do I have to be ashamed I haven't seen any of those cult movies?

 Actually I was surprised that Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory & The Shawshank Redemption were on that list. Both of those IMHO are good films. 
Here is a great scene from Shawshank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAJ2skOJvdY

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## starrysky

> But actually, I have only see three films on this list: The "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" , "Akira" and "Bladerunner". Should I be worried?

 I've only seen "The Shawshank Redemption" from that list and it's a great movie, very well-known and loved here - I often see it on people's TOP lists, as well as "The Green Mile". But I would never watch the "Texas Chainsaw Massacre", no-no-no, I'm not into horror movies.   ::  I usually don't watch movies if I know there are some horrors in store - for that reason I'm not sure I'm ever going to see "Taras Bulba", which is a screen adaptation of Gogol's famous novel, "The Passion of the Christ", "Andrei Rublev"...    

> Interesting to hear that French film is so popular in Russia. What is the reason, do you think?

 Maybe it's because we've always had good relationships with France... and looked up to it as the paragon of culture, history and civilization. I mean, in the 19th century Russian nobility used to speak French among themselves and know it better than Russian, and I suspect even the Napoleon invasion didn't deter them from teaching it to their children.   ::  The French films that many Russians really love are those with famous French comedians, like Pierre Richard and Louis de Funes: 
"Le Jouet"
"Le Grand Blond avec une chaussure noire"
"Fantomas" (1964)
"Angelique" - which is a beautiful period drama, a screen version of the series of novels by Anne and Serge Golon about the time of Louis XIV. Here are some photos from the film http://michelemercier.ru/foto/7  
All those films I know and love from childhood, although they are quite old. I think people really liked them in the Soviet Union because a) they were a window into the West and therefore something exotic and curious, b) they're very beautiful in terms of costumes, sets, locations, etc, "Angelique" actually caused quite a bit of scandal in the USSR, because of Michele Mercier's naked back  ::  c) they're just great remarkable movies.  
As for Italian cinema - well, everyone knows it too. Many great names there - Fellini, Sophia Loren, Marcello Mastroianni...   

> And oh yes, the "Omen" series.

 Yes I remember that one. Must be one of the few horror films I ever saw, it wasn't so very scary, not graphic at least, as far as I remember.    

> Speaking about French cinema, has anyone here seen 'Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain'

 I think it's also many people's fave. It's a nice film, very original.

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## Иван

I think that following link will be interesting for those who are interested in USSR culture/history http://www.cccp-tv.ru. This site about the USSR television and contains TV program bank of those days. It is opened not long ago. Unfortunly it is all in Russian.

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## rockzmom

> I think that the following link will be interesting for those who are interested in USSR culture/history http://www.cccp-tv.ru. This site is about [s:2opw7xpl]the[/s:2opw7xpl] USSR television and contains a ton of TV programs [s:2opw7xpl]bank of[/s:2opw7xpl] from those days. It [s:2opw7xpl]is[/s:2opw7xpl] opened not long ago. Unfortunately (for Rockzmom or others just learning Russian) it is all in Russian. (For others it will be great to help you learn/practice Russian and learn about Russia!)

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## CoffeeCup

> "Top 50 Cult Films Ever" according to "Entertainment" magazine (US).
> How many have you seen? 
> 10. The Shawshank Redemption (1994)
> 16. The Warriors (1979)
> 18. Hard-Boiled (1992)

 Hard-Boiled. This film is actually in my personal cult movie list but I did not expect this film ever to be in US top cult list. I watched it once again just about a month ago. After this movie the director John Woo moved to Hollywood and we, spectators, got fantastic action films such as: Hard target, Broken Arrow, Windtalkers, Face off, Paycheck (The last one is my favorite). 
The Warriors. I’ve seen it by occasion this year some time ago. Some TV channel aired a series of cult US movies along with the “Godfather”. 
I wonder why the film “Leon: The Professional” by Luc Besson is not in the list? In the thread about translation for a video project Ник made a short video where the main character was a killer. I have not seen his video before the translation proposal and did not know that the killer was a maniac. So I supposed that the killer was some sort of a contract killer. In this way some lines I proposed where a compilation of what Leon said.   

> You take the shorter knife to come closer to your aim. You like to foretaste the prey's aroma.

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## CoffeeCup

> Speaking about French cinema, has anyone here seen 'Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain'

 This movie was aired in Russia many times. It is a really cute movie with quite an original idea. I believe that this movie deserves to be in the cult movie's list.

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## devochka

What would be an accurate description of a cult movie?

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## CoffeeCup

My attempt to describe the term of a cult movie. 
The movie which was made not only within a specific cultural or social cross-section (or subculture) but the movie which makes the viewer to see the surrounding World from inside the specific subculture. In other words the viewer feel himself to be a part of this subculture.

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## devochka

Hmm, thanks Coffeecup for your definition. You see, I was a bit reluctant to say "Amélie Poulain" was a cult movie because it is so widely known and popular. In my mind, a cult movie has a bit of a negative connotation. But thinking about it, it actually could qualify as a cult movie.  
PS: I like your signature   ::  .

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## Hanna

Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain is definitely a fantastic film. 
But I am not sure that I think it's a cult movie. I think a film has to be a bit "weird" and unusual to be a cult movie...  (Amélie Poulain is just cute)..  Sex and murder helps a lot... Also strange philosophies or religion. Good soundtrack.  It should bring about some nostalgia in people when they talk about it. Also it has to be quite old and a bit cheezy. 
I think that CoffeeCup's description is good.  
I am trying to think of some European cult movies... I am not so good with movies...  
But here are some..  
English: The Wicker Man... English original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FdV-O8o7ok 
Yugoslavian: Sweet Movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsMLbCkzcGQ
Italian: Suspiria: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlww8Yk2ASY
German: Christiane F.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4vY1V8qSTc
German: Goodbye Lenin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJb4efZcFUM
Spanish: Hable con ella http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNdzcTZUW54
Iceland: Korpen flyger  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnY0KMUVQao 
Nothing French comes to mind right now actually. But there must be something French that everybody has seen, that's cheezy, old and weird.... *But what?*  *@devochka* - I can't think of anything from Belgium other than *the Smurfs and Tintin!* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aaA6IsvN6c I think it's cult because people remember it from their childhood and because they have some wacky political/sexual associations.. apparently. *
Not sure what's a Russian cult movie.  I think "Brat" and "Mimino" are close to the mark though...(?) Maybe "Stalker" (?)*

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## CoffeeCup

> PS: I like your signature  .

 Thank You!   ::     

> In my mind, a cult movie has a bit of a negative connotation.

  

> Actually I was surprised that Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory & The Shawshank Redemption were on that list. Both of those IMHO are good films.

  

> Sex and murder helps a lot...

  I never thought that a cult movie may be considered as a bad movie only. Of course it is more easy to create a new fictional cultural cross-section using sex and murders. But to find a beauty subcultural point in ordinary life is an art, and so is "Amélie Poulain". It is interesting to know what our movie expert *rockzmom* think of it and the term of a cult movie? 
Back to Russian cult movies: "Брат" ("Brother") - yes this is the cult movie from the top of the top list.[/*:m:1lb74fba]"Mimino" - no, it's a good movie but I can't see anything related to a cult.[/*:m:1lb74fba]"Stalker" - it is not so easy to make a choice here. The book, the original story by Strugatsky Bros. is really suitable to be marked as a cult book. But the movie is quite different. On the other hand after the PC game "S.T.A.L.K.E.R" was released the name "Stalker" itself became a sort of cult.[/*:m:1lb74fba]
Here are some items from my Russian cult movie list: Асса (imdb link)[/*:m:1lb74fba]Игла (imdb link)[/*:m:1lb74fba]
Back to French cult movies: I've already mentioned "Leon", I would like to add "Subway" also by Luc Besson (wiki link). 
Finally to German cult movies: my choice is "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" (wiki link).

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## Ramil

Has anybody watched Tsar? I'd like to hear your impressions, should I go to the cinema or just wait for the torrent release?   
Here's the trailer. http://video.yandex.ru/users/film-trailers/view/409

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## Hanna

Ace choices Coffeecup!  
"Boomer?" It had a bit of a cult feel to it.
Anything with "Rasputin" would automatically have potential for cult... Because he is a bit of a cult figure in popular imagination...  but I have never seen a film with/about him... 
Also, anything about kossacks... 
The thing about French films is that they tend to be so "chic" and stylish that you can't really call them "cult".... I have seen "Leon" but I don't remember the plot very well.

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## rockzmom

> It would be interesting to know what our movie expert *rockzmom* thinks of it and the term of a cult movie?

 Sorry... I have been feeling up to posting too much... 
Okay, my thoughts on what a cult film is.... 
I think a good example is Rocky Horror Picture Show and I can speak about that one as I have seen it in the movie theater and can explain it better. 
First, what is a cult movie? It is any movie which has a large devoted specific fan base. And in that sentence is the key word...fan... short for fanatic, a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal. The people who like these films and go to see these movies don't go just once or twice, they go 100 times! I have a cousin who has seen Rocky Horror more than 200 times! I also believe it is "usually" a film that is not that great of a movie to begin with. Usually the topics of the films are the reasons they stay off the main charts. Rocky Horror is a musical that parodies science fiction and pornography films. It is not your main stream type of film! John Waters, a director from Baltimore, has a number of cult films. Pink Flamingo is one of his and the original Hair Spray, and Cry Baby (with a VERY young Johnny Depp) were his too. His films are just way out there and do not appeal to a mass audience but have a BIG fan base. 
Now, back to Rocky Horror.... This film is a very funny film but if you were to watch it a home by yourself, oh my... you would just not have the same experience and would probably turn it off and think I have just lost my mind or I have taken way too much medication for liking this film.   ::   
In the movie theater, people dress up in costumes and bring props. They spray water (when it is raining in the movie), throw toast and rice (during the wedding scene of course) and snap rubber gloves (you'll have to guess why and when). They talk back to the screen and answer questions from the characters. It is all interactive. People get up and dance (they "do" the Time Warp dance that I posted the link for).  It is a total experience, not just a movie.  
Rocky Horror is also the longest-running theatrical release in film history, 34 years! I saw it the first time probably around 1979-80 as my sister who is older took me to see it. Now, I have only seen it in a movie theater a few times, but the music from the show and the Time Warp & Sweet Transvestite scenes are classic "cult" scenes and used in other TV show and movies. 
Which leads me to my next point about a cult film....A cult movie is one that I feel is somehow used over and over again in other films or TV shows as an inside joke and Rocky Horror has been used countless times in other things: 
Family Guy: They have done a number of episodes mentioning Rocky Horror. There is a Family Guy episode entitled Dammit Janet. In the episode, PTV, Peter, Stewie and Brian are dancing in transvestite’s outfits, for about 2 seconds.... and then there is this little clip ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js-Fji8KhaQ 
Cold Case did an episode where they were looking for a murder that happened that was connected to Rocky Horror in the 1970's and Barry Bostwick played the killer. The ending of the show is really good as the used some of the songs from the movie and scenes from a theater showing the movie and then used similar fonts for the credits.... here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0_mytY4P-4 
The Simpsons: (just for you alex!) The Dr. is dressed in Frank garb and is seen standing outside a theater -  (p.s. not from my computer, I just found the photo online) 
Rocky Horror is mentioned on Gilmore Girls:  Lorelei and Rory made plans to go to "Rocky Horror." Lorelei says she's Magenta, and Rory's usually Janet. And of course she tried to get Luke to dress up as Frank. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goU8TKht4NA 
Rocky Horror has been spoofed on Whose Line is it Anyway?  Wayne Brady has to do a song about a coffee grinder and he does "let's grind some coffee again!” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSa3EFCn-14 
There are many more… but you get the idea... a cult film is much more than the film itself... it takes over and spreads into other things. Many times you may not understand the references made until someone explains them to you and then you go "Ohhhh" and start to notice them all over the place. 
So, whatcha think?? Do you understand why I DON'T understand Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory & The Shawshank Redemption being on the list? These two movies just don't seem to ME, to fit this type of movie.

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## starrysky

> Not sure what's a Russian cult movie.  I think "Brat" and "Mimino" are close to the mark though...(?) Maybe "Stalker" (?)

 Er... Haven't seen any of those.   ::  But "Brat" is def a cult movie. I've heard SO much about it. 
Wikipedia can always be relied on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_movie:    

> A *cult film* (also known as a cult movie/picture or a cult classic) is a film that has acquired a highly devoted but specific group of fans.[1] Often, cult movies have failed to achieve fame outside of the small fanbases; however, there have been exceptions that have managed to gain fame among mainstream audiences. Many cult movies have gone on to transcend their original cult status and have become recognized as classics; others are of the "so bad it's good" variety and are destined to remain in obscurity. Cult films often become the source of a thriving, obsessive, and elaborate subculture of fandom, hence the analogy to cults. However, not every film with a rabid fanbase is necessarily a cult film. Usually, cult films have limited but very special, noted appeal. Cult films are often known to be eccentric and do not follow traditional standards of mainstream cinema and usually explore topics not considered in any way mainstream—yet there are examples that are relatively normal. They are often considered controversial because they step outside standard narrative and technical conventions known.[2]

 *Art film / Art house film* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_film   

> An art film (also called “art cinema”, “art movie”" or “art house film”) is typically a serious, noncommercial, independently made film or a foreign language film that may have these qualities, but may have been made by a major company in its home territory and achieved popular success. It may thus be aimed at a niche audience, rather than a mass audience,[1] or the use of subtitles in foreign language films may limit audience appeal.

 Not sure about this one. Take the Disney animation, for example. It's mainstream, but it _is_ art! I personally think that any film/book, that is made/written not purely for commercial reasons but to express the author's views on life, is art.    
It so happened that while I studied foreign languages at my uni, we (meaning me and my fellow-students) thought it imporatant to go to the festivals of British and French cinema that took place every year in Novosibirsk. Well, I gotta tell you, by the end of 5 years of going I figured art cinema is not for me. I enjoyed only one film I saw - British *"Pure"* and it's about a 10-year-old boy whose mother is a drug addict. I really liked it because I know what it's like to have a close relative addicted to drugs. A very poignant, heart-rending film. But that was the only one. The others... euh... Well, I remember one French film about a women's prison. They'd show a prison ward walking down a corridor for 5 bl..dy minutes! Or somebody just sitting and staring blankly in front of them. And it would be their legs that are shown for another 5 minutes. I honestly didn't see the point. Perhaps it's because I've never been to jail otherwise I might've enjoyed the "reality" of it or something.   ::     

> Because he is a bit of a cult figure in popular imagination...

 I've got a feeling that he's "cult" or in any way popular/enigmatic only in the West. I'm in no way fascinated by him...    

> Back to French cult movies: I've already mentioned "Leon"

 Oh, yes, I'd definitely call "Leon" cult... It has that feel to it... And has anyone seen "Taxi" by Luc Besson? That's one hoot of a movie. My favourite is the third part.   ::

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## rockzmom

> Has anybody watched Tsar? I'd like to hear your impressions, should I go to the cinema or just wait for the torrent release? 
> Here's the trailer. http://video.yandex.ru/users/film-trailers/view/409

 Ramil, you posted a link with English subtitles!!! Thank you!!! 
Okay, from what I have read about the film, I would recommend to you that you watch it on a big screen. If you want to see the blood and guts and battle in larger than life, it appears the acting is good and the scenes are very realistic and the cinematography is excellent as well. So, if this is what you are into, the film deserve to be seen on the large screen.    

> http://www.variety.com/index.asp?lay...117940285&cs=1
> Less lugubrious than his previous movie, "The Island," but still laden with Russian brooding and violence, Pavel Lungin's "Tsar" is a brief peep into Ivan the Terrible's heart of darkness via a conflict between the regent and the head of the church. Terrific lead perfs by Pyotr Mamonov and Oleg Yankovsky keep the movie rolling along after a slow start, interspersed with gripping, bloody action. But despite handsome production values and rich, atmospheric lensing by Clint Eastwood regular Tom Stern, this is a heavy meal to digest outside the fest arena.

  

> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...03973965.story
> Bottom Line: A spectacular Russian retelling of the Ivan the Terrible story....writes Deborah Young in the Hollywood Reporter. "Still, this new Russian film is a rich-looking historical epic set in 16th century Moscow...Tom Stern's cinematography, majestic in the outdoor scenes of the Russian countryside, timidly imitates the extreme camera angles and disquieting, stylized architecture of Eisenstein's two "Ivan the Terrible" classics released in 1944 and 1958. Sergei Ivanov's striking production design, paired with the gorgeous costumes designed by Natalia Dzudenko and Yekaterina Dyminskaya and Yuri Krassazin's epic score, give the film a stamp of great quality

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## Basil77

> Bottom Line: A spectacular Russian retelling of the Ivan the Terrible story

 I want to write a couple of thoughts about common English translation of Ivan IV's folk title, "Ivan the Terrible". I think it's completely unproper. "Иван Грозный" and "Иван Ужасный" means absolutely different. I remember some old computer games in English where was a joke: "Ivan the Terrible was called so because he wasn't very handsome". The author of the joke was thinking that he laughs at stupid Russians who called their tsar so, but he only laughed at stupid translator, and I'm not sure the jerk was Russian. About the image of Ivan IV in the cinema - my favorite is by Yuriy Yakovlev, the best Tsar Ivan ever!   ::   ::

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## starrysky

> I want to write a couple of thoughts about common English translation of Ivan IV's folk title, "Ivan the Terrible". I think it's completely unproper. "Иван Грозный" and "Иван Ужасный" means absolutely different. I remember some old computer games in English where was a joke: "Ivan the Terrible was called so because he wasn't very handsome". The author of the joke was thinking that he laughs at stupid Russians who called their tsar so, but he only laughed at stupid translator, and I'm not sure the jerk was Russian. About the image of Ivan IV in the cinema - my favorite is by Yuriy Yakovlev, the best Tsar Ivan ever!

 Yeah, a more accurate translation would be "Ivan the Formidable". Wiki quote again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_terrible (god, I _am_ addicted to wikipedia   ::  )   

> The English word terrible is usually used to translate the Russian word grozny in Ivan's nickname, but the modern English usage of terrible, with a pejorative connotation of bad or evil, does not precisely represent the intended meaning. Grozny's meaning is closer to the original usage of terrible—inspiring fear or terror, dangerous (as in Old English in one's danger), formidable, threatening, or awesome. Perhaps a translation closer to the intended sense would be Ivan the Fearsome, or Ivan the Formidable.

 I'll only watch this movie if someone reassures me that there is not too much blood and gore in it, too realistically depicted. 
And yes, Yakovlev is the best Ivan the Terrible!   ::

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## devochka

> *@devochka* - I can't think of anything from Belgium other than *the Smurfs and Tintin!* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aaA6IsvN6c I think it's cult because people remember it from their childhood and because they have some wacky political/sexual associations.. apparently.

 There were definitely political connotations in Tintin. Tintin's first adventure takes him to the Soviet Union and the story is basically a parody on the USSR. 
But political/sexual connotations in the Smurfs? Maybe sexual because Smurfette is the only girl in the village?

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## rockzmom

Okay, so I got this email today about a commercial they are shooting in New York for Eclipse Gum and it is to be shown in RUSSIA ONLY!!! 
Here is the information I have about it. You all need to let us know if you see it and/or post a copy of it if you can find it once it airs!!   

> You all rock with your first-look submission. Here's the official release with all the deets. IF YOU ALREADY SUBMITTED I HAVE IT! Dont resubmit is just floods my email. 
> NEW ROLE ADDED for Indian Princess! Check it out.  
> NOTE: This is additional casting for the Eclipse Gum Non-Union casting. If you have ALREADY ATTENDED AN AUDITION AT ANOTHER CASTING COMPANY THIS PAST WEEK, please do not submit. If you had SUBMITTED but did NOT attend the casting, you're welcome to submit. 
> Also, this may not be for you but you may definitely KNOW someone who this is perfect for. Feel free to pass along submission instructions to them. This goes for people outside the 'biz' too. The Mom character specifically... 
> See below... 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> NEW CASTING FOR ECLIPSE
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> TYPE: Non-SAG Commercial (SAG Eligible and Fi-Core Ok to submit)
> ...

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## Hanna

> Originally Posted by Johanna  *@devochka* - I can't think of anything from Belgium other than *the Smurfs and Tintin!* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aaA6IsvN6c I think it's cult because people remember it from their childhood and because they have some wacky political/sexual associations.. apparently.   There were definitely political connotations in Tintin. 
> But political/sexual connotations in the Smurfs? Maybe sexual because Smurfette is the only girl in the village?

 Haha, no actually, it was the other way around:  
Tintin was "sexual" because apparently people felt there must be "something going on" between Tintin and the Captain. Not sure why, and I had no idea about that until I learnt about it in Thailand. Many people were walking around with Tintin t-shirts, bags etc. I asked about it and was told that it was a "signal" that they were men looking for male company....  ::   ::   ::   
The Smurfs was "political": Old Smurf  ::   (the one with the Red hat) was a "Communist" (lol!) "Proof": He wore a red hat and talked a lot about sharing things, working together and "all smurfs being equal.... "   
The reason I "know" this was because the Red (socialist/communist) movement in Sweden used him for their "Vote Yes to EU" campaign among their members. All the "red" people (apart from the leaders) were originally against EU membership, and they were the majority in the country. So unless they changed their minds, we could not enter the EU. The red leadership knew that this was a problem.  
Old Smurf was apparently a well known Belgian (EU/Brussels) and jokingly known as "Communist" so he was perfect as a pro-EU mascot for them... )  They made a cartoon where the Old Smurf explains from a socialist perspective, that EU is in fact quite good... etc.  
People in the student movement wore a very funny T-shirts with Old Smurf against an EU flag, quoting Marx.

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## devochka

Really? Oh my... You know, people often try and explain the meaning of the author and the message of a certain book (or artwork in general). I always wonder, what does the author think of those explanations?

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## Cupcake

I was wondering if anyone knew of some good russian shows for kids and teenagers. I don't know all that much about russian television, I know Папины дочки, РАНЕТКИ, Конечно... t.A.T.u. Поднебесная и экспедиция. Can someone post some other interesting shows?

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## Wowik

> ...russian shows for kids ...

 Спокойной ночи, малыши!   ::

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## starrysky

> I was wondering if anyone knew of some good russian shows for kids and teenagers. I don't know all that much about russian television, I know Папины дочки, РАНЕТКИ, Конечно... t.A.T.u. Поднебесная и экспедиция. Can someone post some other interesting shows?

 *"Смешарики"/Smeshariki*. I think it's aimed at pre-school children, but I like it even though I'm an adult.   ::   It's got this somewhat grown-up humour and a gentle sad philosophical atmosphere (Во как загнула!) *Eralash* is a show consisting of short humourous episodes - mostly for children from 7 to 12, I'd guess. And I don't know any good shows for teens.   ::  I haven't seen Ранетки or Папины  дочки, though I know they're popular. 
On a different note, I've watched today my first Tarkovsky film - _Ivan's Childhood/Иваново детство_. Good movie. It's a war drama set during WWII (the Great Patriotic War). Ivan is a twelve year old boy whose mother and sister were killed by the Nazis. Apparently, he'd lived some time with partisans, then he was sort of adopted by an odinary military unit where he now goes on different reconnaissance missions. He insists that as a child it's easier for him to go unnoticed than a big grown-up man, but the adults want to sent him away from the front. Ivan is determined to stay at the front and not be sent away to the safety of a military school.  
I'd like to read the novel that this film is based on - "Ivan" by Bogolubov. Though I have to say I have seen children act better. For example, 10-year-old Harry Eden in the movie *"Pure"* which I think I already mentioned here somewhere. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0308772/  
(don't know what Keira is doing in the foreground since she plays a relatively small role of a junkie waitress)

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## CoffeeCup

There were many posts by rockzmom about the movie "Twilight". The last Sunday, just before the sequel release, the first movie was aired in Russia. It became a sort of tradition in Russia for a sequel release to air on TV the preceding movie. It is assumed that seeing the first movie the people would come to theaters to see the sequel. So was the "Twilight" for the last Sunday. I found out this movie to be very cute romantic story. I adore the forest and the landscape scenes. And, of course, the baseball scene. Actually I knew nothing about this movie and story before, and what a funny thing, when I saw the announcement for the "Twilight" on the TV channel during the week before airing I thought that the boy is werewolf not the vampire. One more thing that I found to be clever is the fact that there are no scenes with the vampire's teeth (if I did not miss some) it makes the movie to be more romantic. Only one point I would improve (and this point I see in many US movies): the bad characters, villains. The villains are showed as fools. Frightful, savage, terrible but fools. I believe that if the villains were not the fools they would be essentially more frightful, savage and terrible and the viewers would get more realistic scaring impressions.

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## rockzmom

> There were many posts by rockzmom about the movie "Twilight". [s:1no5ltbc]The last[/s:1no5ltbc] This past Sunday, just before the sequel is released, the first movie was aired in Russia. It has become a sort of tradition in Russia before a sequel is to be released to air on TV the preceding movie. It is assumed that seeing the [s:1no5ltbc]first[/s:1no5ltbc] previous movie [s:1no5ltbc]the[/s:1no5ltbc] people [s:1no5ltbc]would[/s:1no5ltbc] will come to theaters to see the sequel or next installment. So was the reason for "Twilight" [s:1no5ltbc]for the[/s:1no5ltbc]being aired last Sunday.  
> I found [s:1no5ltbc]out[/s:1no5ltbc] this movie to be a very cute romantic story. I adored the forest and the landscape scenes. And, of course, the baseball scene. Actually I knew nothing about this movie and story before, and what a funny thing, when I saw the announcement for the "Twilight" on the TV channel during the week before airing I thought that the boy [s:1no5ltbc]is[/s:1no5ltbc] was a werewolf not [s:1no5ltbc]the[/s:1no5ltbc] a vampire. One more thing that I found to be clever is the fact that there are no scenes with the vampire's teeth (if I did not miss some) and it makes the movie to be more romantic. Only one point I would improve (and this point I see in many US movies): the bad characters, villains. The villains are showed as fools. Frightful, savage, and terrible, but fools. I believe that if the villains were not made out to be [s:1no5ltbc]the[/s:1no5ltbc] fools they would be essentially more frightful, savage and terrible and the viewers would get more realistic scar[s:1no5ltbc]ing[/s:1no5ltbc]y impressions.

 coffeecup... I find it very interesting that Russia shows the previous movie on air for FREE!! That is really a great marketing tool. I mentioned it to my daughters and they also agreed. In the story, there will be some werewolves as well!  
As for the first movie, it is interesting to note that many people did not like the director, Catherine Hardwicke. She was really in a very hard situation. A female director, small budget and a blockbuster novel to make into a movie. She was "fired" from the franchise and yet.. Twilight was the biggest opening ever for a female director AND Twilight was the highest-grossing movie by a female director.  
Catherine's next big movie is also going to be from a series of Young Adult books and ones both of my daughters REALLY love...Maximum Ride by James Patterson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum...ilm_adaptation

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## rockzmom

An intersting article from Monday's Wall Street Journal about the business of movies, "angels"  and the film Precious   

> angel = An individual who invests his or her own money in a private company, which is typically a startup. An angel investor is not an employee or member of a bank, venture capital firm or other financial institution that normally makes such investments.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx-3jYJkUWQ Trailer for the movie   

> *Novice Film 'Angels' Took Leap of Faith With 'Precious'*  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 68260.html
> By LAUREN A. E. SCHUKER  
> "Precious," a raw movie about an obese black teen growing up in an abusive Harlem household, got off the ground with some unlikely angels: A wealthy Denver couple new to the film business.  
> The surprise success of the movie marks a vindication for Sarah Siegel-Magness and her husband, Gary Magness, a pair of novice film investors who put up roughly $12 million to finance a project that wouldn't appeal to Hollywood studios. 
> "No way, no studio would make a film about an overweight black girl," says "Precious" director Lee Daniels, who produced "Monster's Ball," which won Halle Berry an Oscar. 
> The 36-year-old Ms. Siegel-Magness runs her own clothing company called So Low, which began with an underwear line for low-rise jeans. Her parents started the tea company Celestial Seasonings, where she worked growing up. Mr. Magness, 55, whose parents began the cable company Tele-Communications Inc. that later merged with AT&T, is a cattle rancher and oversees an investment group. 
> Their foray into film financing and producing wasn't part of a carefully planned strategy. "When I began to get outside counseling from Hollywood about what we had done, people were mortified," remembers Ms. Siegel-Magness. "They told us we should have instead invested in this or that fund to make 11 different movies, that we were crazy for financing an African-American movie about incest," she says. 
> In today's cash-starved Hollywood, where the billions Wall Street poured into Hollywood between 2004 and 2008 have dried up, individual "angel" investors like the Magnesses are more crucial than ever—and one of the only ways that gritty, independent films like "Precious" ever live to see the silver screen. 
> "Liquidity has dried up in a big way, and those big financing deals are gone for the moment, says Premila Hoon, who previously ran film financing at Société Générale and now has her own boutique film investment advisory firm, Entertainment Capital Advisors. "I think we will see more angel investors, and they will be a little smarter about risk." 
> ...

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## Lampada

> ..."We were totally captivated by *Lee* from the moment he sat down," says Ms. Siegel-Magness." At one point while they were talking Mariah Carey walked by, and Mr. Daniels pulled her into the conversation. "It was the best little trick," says Ms. Siegel-Magness. ..."

 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/magaz ... wanted=all *The Audacity of ‘Precious’*   * By LYNN HIRSCHBERG*
Published:  October 21, 2009    _Lee Daniels, left, is the director of "Precious." At right, Mo' Nique, generally known for stand-up, takes on a tough role in the movie._   *I.* 
At the Cannes International Film Festival in May, in the loud, chaotic bar at the Martinez Hotel, Lee Daniels seemed, as he often does, both ecstatic and nervous. He jumped, he slumped, his mood changing from giddy to anxious. He was the only black man in the crowded bar, a fact that he mentioned and then brushed away. He was dressed unremarkably in a loose, untucked shirt and slouchy khaki pants, but his hair, an electric corona of six-inch fusilli-like spirals, demanded notice. Although Daniels will be 50 this year, he has the bouncy, mercurial energy of a child. The previous night, at the gala screening of his movie “Precious,” which he directed and helped produce, he greeted the audience by saying, “I’m a little homo, I’m a little Euro and I’m a little ghetto.” The crowd cheered. 
Daniels knows what he’s selling: his films combine street-smart bravado with an art-house sensibility. “Precious,” the harrowing story of a 350-pound illiterate teenage girl who is pregnant for the second time by her father and horribly abused by her mother, is shot in an almost-documentary style interspersed with fantasy sequences. (It opens Nov. 6.) Like most independent films, it is character-driven, and at its heart is a spirit of understanding. When Precious’s plight lands her in a special school, she blossoms: the audience’s initial rejection of Precious, even repulsion at the sight of her, slowly gives way to a kind of identification. 
At Cannes, the film received a 15-minute standing ovation. “They wouldn’t stop clapping,” Daniels told me as he gulped a vodka. “I’m a director — after six minutes, I’m saying, please sit down. But I’m also a producer, so I’m thinking, what’s the record? Can we break the record for the longest standing ovation at the festival?” 
Just a few months before its premiere at Cannes, “Precious” won three awards at the Sundance Film Festival, including a special jury prize for Mo’Nique, who plays Precious’s monstrous mother. Graphic as the film is, it is less so than “Push,” the 1996 novel on which it is based. Written by an African-American poet and writer known as Sapphire, “Push” relied on intentionally misspelled, broken and slangy English to convey Precious’s sense of despair and rage. The novel mixes poems by Precious with sexually extreme scenes, like those in which she is forced to perform oral sex on her mother. It is almost relentlessly bleak: when Precious discovers she is H.I.V.-positive, she is certain of her imminent death. Daniels’s movie, by contrast, offers a greater sense of possibility. He doesn’t ignore her disease, hardships or struggles, but he also liberates her from them. Precious is a stand-in for anyone — black, white, male, female — who has ever been devalued or underestimated.  
Yet the movie is not neutral on the subject of race and the prejudices that swirl around it, even in the supposedly postracial age of Obama. “ ‘Precious’ is so not Obama,” Daniels said. “ ‘Precious’ is so not P.C. What I learned from doing the film is that even though I am black, I’m prejudiced. I’m prejudiced against people who are darker than me. When I was young, I went to a church where the lighter-skinned you were, the closer you sat to the altar. Anybody that’s heavy like Precious — I thought they were dirty and not very smart. Making this movie changed my heart. I’ll never look at a fat girl walking down the street the same way again.” 
For some audiences, that may not be reason enough to make a movie that risks reinforcing old stereotypes. It’s a criticism Daniels has heard before. “As African-Americans, we are in an interesting place,” Daniels said. “Obama’s the president, and we want to aspire to that. But part of aspiring is disassociating from the face of Precious. To be honest, I was embarrassed to show this movie at Cannes. I didn’t want to exploit black people. And I wasn’t sure I wanted white French people to see our world.” He paused. “But because of Obama, it’s now O.K. to be black. I can share that voice. I don’t have to lie. I’m proud of where I come from. And I wear it like a shield. ‘Precious’ is part of that.” 
Before he could untangle this thought, Daniels was interrupted by Thierry Frémaux, the director of the Cannes Film Festival, who had been sitting in a corner booth. “I love your movie,” he said. “It’s a beautiful movie.” Frémaux put out his hand to shake. “C’est incroyable!”  
As Frémaux darted away, Daniels looked stunned, then gleeful, then serious. “I am so used to having two faces,” he said, as if to explain his theatrical shifts in mood. “A face that I had for black America and a face for white America. When Obama became president, I lost both faces. Now I only have one face. But old habits die hard, and sometimes I can’t remember who I’m supposed to be.”  *II.* 
AS A PRODUCER, Daniels had been to Cannes before. In 2004, he took “The Woodsman,” starring Kevin Bacon as a convicted sex offender, to the festival and received a respectful if guarded reception. He came to Cannes with a track record for controversial material: in 2001, he produced “Monster’s Ball,” a melodrama about bigotry and interracial love in the South. Halle Berry won an Oscar for her portrayal of a waitress who falls for a white prison guard, not knowing he helped execute her husband. Initially, Berry was considered too glamorous for the role, but Daniels fought for her. He’s known for his inventive casting: in “Monster’s Ball,” Sean Combs plays a murderer on death row; in “The Woodsman,” the hip-hop artist Mos Def is a parole officer; and in “Precious,” Mariah Carey is unrecognizable as a welfare caseworker, while Lenny Kravitz convincingly portrays a nurse. Perhaps his most inspired idea was casting Mo’Nique, known for her bawdy stand-up comedy, as Precious’s mother.  
Daniels not only dreamed up casting, developed scripts and attached directors for the films he produced but, lacking backing from a major studio, also had to find financing. Because of the kind of subject matter he’s attracted to, that wasn’t easy. “In my early days, I loved the challenge,” he said as we sat in the Martinez bar in Cannes. “Even now, I don’t think twice about raising money. It’s no different than a drug deal. People have trouble getting movies made, but how many people could go out and steal for their families? You go in, you go gangster, you get what you’ve got to get and go on to the next. It’s just another hustle.”  
Like the Jewish immigrants who created the movie business in Hollywood, Daniels has the will and the perspective of an outsider. “All the barriers were in Lee’s way,” explains Bob Berney, now the C.E.O. of Apparition, who bought and distributed “The Woodsman” for Newmarket. “No one was helping him. And whatever he’s seen or has happened to him in his life, it has motivated him. He’s not afraid to say, You’re not listening to me because of what I look like and who I am and you’re wrong.”  
After producing two films, Daniels quickly became frustrated with not having complete control of his movies. “I kind of co-directed ‘Monster’s Ball,’ ” Daniels told me as he ordered another drink (the actual director was Marc Forster). “I gave Halle her line readings. I knew how to do that: you tap into people’s souls.” Daniels leaned forward. “I was tired of producing because, at the end of the day, I was tired of creating monster movie-star directors. I was stuck with, How am I going to find my next $2 million to make my next movie and they’re walking away to jobs that pay them $2 million. I thought, How do I get my voice across? I wanted to direct.”  
Daniels, who grew up in a rough southwest Philadelphia neighborhood, wanted to make a movie that melded his history with the lush, operatic intensity of Pedro Almodóvar or Wong Kar-wai. The first film he directed, “Shadowboxer,” which he also produced, has a loony premise: a hit man (played by Cuba Gooding Jr.) is having an affair with his dying stepmother (Helen Mirren, pre-“The Queen” ), and together they are raising a child. It’s violent, sexually explicit and very strange. “ ‘Shadowboxer’ is purple, and I love purple,” Mirren told me when I called her in Los Angeles to speak about Daniels. “But that’s Lee. We met in the most unusual way. One day, I was walking on Houston Street in Manhattan and because there were a lot of holes in the road, I was looking down at my feet. I got a tap on the shoulder, and I jumped. This mad-looking man with wild dreadlocks says, ‘I love you and I have a movie I want you to do.’ I thought, this is a complete madman, I’ll never hear from this person again. Ninety-nine percent of the people who approach you this way are living in a fantasy world. But Lee, due to his charm and belief, makes his fantasies real. He doesn’t hear ‘no.’ ”  
“ ‘Shadowboxer’ was based on my life,” Daniels told me, as a man began playing show tunes on the piano. “I knew killers. My uncle, who took care of me, murdered people, and yet he took care of me too. People who have gone to jail for murder are also human. Black people are not all saints.”  *III.* 
A MONTH AFTER Cannes, Daniels was back in Manhattan in his 11th-floor loftlike apartment near Madison Square Garden. “This is where I raised money for ‘Precious,’ ” he said. Daniels, dressed in black, lay sprawled on a plum-colored sectional sofa; on a low, white table in front of him were piles of scripts and stacks of photographs from “Precious.” A Roller Disco pinball machine stood next to a baby grand piano, and a large TV screen dominated one side of the room. Although he had a separate office in the same building, Daniels’s apartment seemed more like a lavish hotel suite than a home.  
“These are my girls!” he said, picking up a photo showing Gabourey Sidibe, who plays Precious, with Mo’Nique, Paula Patton, who plays the teacher who changes Precious’s life, and Mariah Carey. “Mariah is everything we’re not supposed to love and yet, we absolutely love her,” Daniels said, staring at the photo. “She’s crazy — look at her! She would throw herself under the train for you, as long as her hair was perfect.” Daniels laughed. “I made this movie for my girls. People read so much into ‘Precious.’ But at the end, it’s just this girl, and she’s trying to live. I know this chick. You know her. But we just choose not to know her.”  
Daniels read “Push” when it was first published. “I slept with the book under my pillow for three months,” he said now. “At first, Sapphire wouldn’t sell me the rights. She said she had many suitors after her for the material. Then, she saw ‘Shadowboxer,’ and she cried in my arms. Critics didn’t like ‘Shadowboxer,’ but a lot of African-Americans understood it. And Sapphire saw it and trusted me with her baby.”  
As the script was being written, Daniels began to figure out the financing of the movie. “Getting Sapphire’s permission was only half the challenge,” Daniels explained. “ ‘Shadowboxer’ hadn’t done so well, so I found myself back at Square 1. It was very, very hard to get financing for ‘Precious.’ All the studios said no. They didn’t want to make a film about a 350-pound black girl who is abused. Everybody kept saying no. My whole life was no. It was just a bunch of nos.”  
Eventually, Daniels found independent financing. “Lee is brilliant at finding investors,” Mirren said. “On ‘Shadowboxer,’ he found this rich man in Philadelphia who paid for the movie, God bless him.” For “Precious,” Daniels raised the initial $8 million (the budget eventually grew to about $10 million) from Sarah Siegel-Magness and Gary Magness, who live in Denver. Both are successful entrepreneurs and have family money — her parents founded Celestial Seasonings, and his father started the cable giant TCI — and had worked with Daniels before. They agreed that “Precious” was worth the risk. “At the end of the day, I’m a promoter,” Daniels said now. “But I also let the work speak for itself.” 
Once he had the money, he needed the girl. “I couldn’t call Hollywood and say, ‘Send over all your 300-pound black girls,’ ” Daniels explained. “They’d laugh.” To find Precious, Daniels and Billy Hopkins, a casting director (and Daniels’s ex-boyfriend and the co-parent of their 13-year-old twins, Clara and Liam), held open casting calls. They went to McDonald’s and Macy’s; they visited cities like Detroit and Chicago; and they advertised in college and high-school newspapers. Daniels saw 500 girls, including one of his nieces. Ten finalists, none of whom had ever acted before, were put through an aspiring-thespian “boot camp.” “It was kind of like ‘American Idol,’ ” Daniels said. “But I still wasn’t happy. We were weeks away from filming, and I still hadn’t found Precious.”  
Gabourey Sidibe (pronounced SIH-deh-bay), who is 26, knew about the movie from her mother, Alice Tan Ridley, an R&B singer who often performs in the Times Square subway station (near the entrance to the R train). Ridley had been approached about auditioning for the role of Mary, Precious’s monster of a mother. “She didn’t think she could play Mary,” Sidibe told me. “But she thought I should audition. She always thinks I can do anything. I did fit the physical requirements, and I finally decided to go read for Billy Hopkins. Afterward, he didn’t speak for 30 seconds. Later, I met with Lee, and he said, ‘I want you to be in my movie.’ The first audition was Monday, and on Wednesday, my life changed.”  
Unlike Precious, Sidibe is well spoken and cheerful. “I’m not her,” Sidibe said emphatically. “But, when I was 14 or 15, I saw myself in a different way. Back then, I envied a life that I’d made up in my mind. I broke free of that unhappiness and I decided to change — I was going to be happy with myself. No matter what I look like, no matter what people think.” Daniels realized that Sidibe’s attitude was crucial to playing Precious. “My sister was an obese crack addict,” Daniels said. “She had a chicken wing in one hand and a crack pipe in the other, and yet she had a line of white men waiting for her. People make assumptions about fat people that are wrong, and like my sister, Gabby is comfortable in her body. She may be in a state of denial or on a higher plane than the rest of us, but either way, she breaks your heart in the movie.”  
Daniels has said all this before — to journalists, to investors, to anyone he thinks needs convincing of Precious’s appeal. Like much of Daniels’s patter, it sounds both rehearsed and contradictory. But it’s also colorful and strangely persuasive — as long as you don’t listen too closely. Daniels is always convincing someone of something, and like any good salesman, he knows that selling is not just about the truth. “He’s not dishonest,” Bob Berney told me. “But Lee does what he thinks he has to do.”  
Before Sidibe was cast, Daniels phoned Mo’Nique and told her he had a part for her that was “going to mess up your career. You are going to lose your world, your audience, your standing in the BET community.” Mo'nique was not fazed. “I did not hesitate!” she exclaimed on a warm day in September in New York City. “I said to Lee, if you want me to play this demon, I am there.” I met Mo’Nique and her ever-present entourage — bodyguard, assistant, full-time videographer who records her every move from the moment she leaves her house in Atlanta to when she returns at night — at the City Crab & Seafood Company on Park Avenue South. It was her choice. Mo’Nique, who was dressed in a tight black cocktail dress and high heels, entered the restaurant as if it were a premiere. Although she is deliberately elusive — since Sundance Mo’Nique has not attended a single festival showing of “Precious,” including Cannes, Toronto and the New York Film Festival — when she shows up (in this case, nearly an hour late) she has the radiance of the sun. “She’s got magic,” Helen Mirren told me. “During ‘Shadowboxer,’ Mo’Nique was a great inspiration to me. Casting her is classic Lee — he loves the true outsider. Not the fake Hollywood outsider, like Brad Pitt or someone. Mo’Nique is part of the world he came from, and in his movies, he manages to make that outsider world universal.” 
Although Mo’Nique’s performance as Precious’s mother has generated talk of an Oscar, Daniels has heard complaints from the black community about the image her character pro­jects. “They see the film as negative to black women,” Daniels said. “Black women are the pillar of the family. Black men have left, and how dare I stab at the one thing that’s helped. So I told Mo’Nique, ‘They’re going to hate you for this movie.’ She said, ‘Let them hate me.’ ”  
Mo’Nique wasn’t in town to talk about “Precious.” She recently signed a multimillion-dollar deal with BET (Black Entertainment Television) to do a nightly 11 p.m. talk show, and she had back-to-back interviews for five days to promote it. Although there have been published reports that she will not support “Precious” by going to film festivals unless she’s paid a steep fee, Mo’Nique seems unequivocally devoted to Daniels. They met at a Los Angeles party in 2002 after “Monster’s Ball,” and Daniels recalls hearing that Mo’Nique was among those who complained about the casting of Halle Berry, asking: “Why did you cast that skinny light-skinned girl in your movie?” (Mo’Nique denies having made that remark.) A year later, Daniels offered Mo’Nique a role in “Shadowboxer.” “My part was written as a size 0 white woman with big breasts,” Mo’Nique told me over lunch, after requesting three orders of jumbo buffalo shrimp to go. “And Lee gave that role to me, a 260-pound black woman with little breasts. What I dig about Lee Daniels is he’s fearless. He tells his truth. So when he called and asked me to play this demon, I said: ‘Sign me up, sugar. Sign me up.’ ” 
In part, Mo’Nique was intrigued by the role of Mary Jones because, she says, she was abused by a brother when she was a young girl. The abuse supposedly began when Mo’Nique was 7 and continued for four years. “We wanted people to see the illness,” Mo’Nique explained. “Lee said, be a monster. And my brother was that monster to me. When Lee said, ‘Action,’ that’s who I became.” 
Like Mo’Nique, Daniels, too, says that he was a victim of abuse, that he was beaten by his father, a policeman. “He wanted Lenny to be tough,” Daniels’s Aunt Dot, who is his father’s sister, told me. “Leonardo is Lee’s given name, and we all call him Lenny. I think Lenny was gay from the time he was a baby, and his father saw him walking and acting real feminine, and he wanted Lenny to be tough. He tried to get him into boxing. He was verbally cruel. He cracked the whip.” 
According to Daniels, it didn’t stop there. “He regularly beat me,” Daniels said. “One time, I put on my mom’s red patent-leather high heels, and he beat me. I knew he loved me, but he thought I wouldn’t survive as a black gay guy.” When Daniels was 15, his father was shot and killed. “We were just starting to be friends,” Daniels said. “He died the way he lived — tragically.” 
Daniels’s father was killed in 1975, when three armed men walked into a southwest Philadelphia bar where he had gone for a drink after work and started robbing the patrons. When they saw his father's badge, they shot him. “He was a hero in that moment,” Daniels told me. “But I knew a different man. It’s taken me a long time to forgive him. He wanted me to be a man who’s strong and could attack the world, so what does that say? That beating a kid is good? Being told you’re nothing makes you what you are? My father could have been sent to jail for what he did to me, but he also made me tough. I never give up. Never ever ever. I hope that doesn’t justify his behavior.”  *IV.* 
BY THE TIME Daniels moved to Los Angeles in 1980, he had changed his name to Lee. “I should have been a casualty, honey,” he told me one afternoon this fall over rib-eye steak and lobster cocktail at his haunt, the Staghorn Steakhouse restaurant on the edge of the garment district, conveniently located on the ground floor of his apartment building. “How did I get out of where I was raised? When my father died, I started shoplifting and my brother became a drug dealer. The ghetto is a place of war. And where we have come with Obama being president is the complete opposite of where I’m from. One of my brothers — there are five of us, and I’m the oldest — has spent most of his adult life, off and on, in jail. And he now has a job. I had the gift for talk, but I could have been him. The story could have gone that way.” Daniels paused. “I came to L.A. with $7 to my name. I knew instinctively that the hustle was on.”  
As always, Daniels is weaving a cinematic tale of his youth. According to Aunt Dot, he didn’t live in the ghetto, and his brother spent only about five years in jail. But things weren’t easy, and he definitely wanted out. After attending Lindenwood University in Missouri, Daniels dropped out before his junior year and moved West with the idea of becoming a screenwriter. To support himself, he took a job as a receptionist in a nursing agency. By 1980, he had opened his own home-health-care-services company. “The man he had a relationship with died,” Aunt Dot told me, filling in the blanks that Daniels intentionally kept in his life story. “And he left Lenny money. He used that money to start his business. But even then, Lenny was reaching for the stars. He was always wanting to get into movies.” Daniels maintains that he inherited only a small amount of money and that his business was already thriving. In 1983, he sold it and went to work as a casting agent and then a manager. “An early client was Nastassja Kinski,” Daniels said. “I was always good: If you sign with me, baby, I’ll get you a paycheck. But I got tired of holding purses on the red carpet. I was creating actors, but I was stifling myself.” He had read a script for one of his clients, a white actor named Wes Bentley, called “Monster’s Ball,” and he decided to raise the money and produce it. “Just like that,” Daniels recalled. “I had a 90-day option to raise the money for ‘Monster’s Ball,’ and on the 90th day, I had the money.” 
This mix of fearlessness, determination and salesmanship has fueled Daniels’s career. “Lee is right in your face,” explains Bob Berney, with admiration. “And to some people, he’s scary. Not to me, but I still felt I had to say yes to him. Look at who he got to pay for ‘Precious’ — you can’t imagine a more improbable, impossible thing. They’re a lovely suburban couple. I’m sure they’d never have reached this level of success in the film business so quickly without Lee.” 
When I first met Daniels in 2004, we had lunch in the meeting hall of the United House of Prayer for All People, near his former office in Harlem. He moved to New York nine years earlier, and he was living half in Harlem, half on the Upper West Side, with Billy Hopkins and their two kids. Daniels’s children were born to a brother and his girlfriend. “The babies were left on Lenny’s mother’s doorstep,” Aunt Dot recalled. “And she called social services to come get them. But Lenny stepped in. Those babies are now his and Billy’s.” This year, Daniels and Hopkins broke up and now share custody — the kids now spend four days a week on the Upper West Side with Hopkins and three days with Daniels and his boyfriend, Andy Sforzini, an actuary at Prudential Life Insurance. “They’ve been to more bar mitzvahs than they’ve been to church,” Daniels told me. “They’re these black kids living around these Upper West Side Jews. They’ve read ‘Anne Frank’ a hundred times, and they’ve never read ‘Roots.’ ” When I asked if the kids see their biological father, Daniels said: “No. My brother hates that I’m raising his kids. He’s so humiliated by the fact that I’m gay that he won’t look me in the eye.” 
About his sexuality, Daniels is both defiant and deliberately provocative. “I’d prefer to be bisexual,” he told me at the Staghorn. “But I don’t think any woman is going to accept me being with a man. I had to choose. And I did. But there’s a deep connection with me and women. They listen to me. I understand them better than I understand men.”  
“Shadowboxer,” released in 2006, was an attempt to fuse Daniels’s past with his present — the film tried to combine the machismo of his upbringing with a gay sensibility. “It was an anarchic shoot,” Mirren recalled enthusiastically. “Lee was learning on the set. He loved the designer Vivienne Westwood, and he told me, ‘You’re going to wear Vivienne Westwood!’ I said, ‘Why would a contract killer living in Philly wear Vivienne Westwood?’ But the why was irrelevant.”  
While he was editing “Shadowboxer,” Daniels, who was living on 17th Street at the time, went for a run by the piers on the West Side. He felt a little ping in his chest. The pain increased, and by the time he arrived at his office in Harlem, he had to lie down. His assistant persuaded him to go to the doctor, who immediately realized Daniels was having a heart attack. “I’d been using a lot of cocaine. I’m embarrassed to say this, but I had to learn to bring down my bravado. When you’re finding yourself in the world, you start blinging and dinging and dingdingdang dang, and next thing you know, you’re in the hospital.”  
He said that the heart attack changed him, that it was part of the reason he felt he had to make “Precious.” Unlike “Shadowboxer,” “Precious” is a world without glitz, glamour — or, for the most part, men. Daniels convinced his actresses to leave their vanity behind. “I asked Mo’Nique to grow a couple of pimples,” Daniels recalled. “And I asked her not to shave under her arms, and she went there for me.” Mariah Carey’s role was originally offered to Helen Mirren, who had scheduling conflicts. Carey and Daniels are close friends — he calls her Kitten, and she calls him Cotton — and he offered her the part on the condition that she show up at the set alone (no entourage) in a taxi (no limo) and freshly scrubbed (no makeup). “People say to me, ‘You are so ugly in this movie,’ and I take that as a compliment,” Carey told me. “During the filming, I tried to sneak some blush, but Lee caught me. He rubbed my cheek and said, ‘Take that off.’ I said, ‘But Precious is wearing makeup!’ ” 
When Daniels wanted a fantasy sequence to be a Vogue photo shoot starring Precious and the magazine's editor at large, André Leon Talley, Talley looked at a clip of Sidibe from the movie and declined. Daniels fired some crew members halfway through production (“They weren’t listening to me, and I said, don’t let this hair fool you, give me what I want”), and the production ran out of money twice. Carey helped out by singing at Daniels’s house to dazzle potential investors. “I would do anything for Lee,” she said. “He can strip you down, homely you out, and you trust him, because he’s after the truth. He can drive you crazy, but what interesting person doesn’t drive you crazy?”   *V.* 
WHEN DANIELS WAS getting up to accept the Audience Award at the Sundance Film Festival in January, his cellphone rang, and it was Oprah Winfrey. She was calling to tell him that she had seen “Precious,” that the movie “split her open” and that she wanted to put her might behind the film. “I said, ‘I’m accepting an award right now,’ ” Daniels recalled. “She said, ‘Then why are you answering your phone?’ ”  
After winning three awards, “Precious” was finally bought by a distributor. “I had shown the movie in L.A. to my manager, and he didn’t respond positively,” Daniels said. “My manager, who is white, said, ‘I’m sorry, but I don’t think anybody is going to see this movie.’ That man is no longer my manager.”  
Daniels paused. It was late September, we were back at the Staghorn and he had just returned from the Toronto Film Festival, where “Precious” won the audience prize, traditionally an indicator of awards and box-office glory (last year, the winner was “Slumdog Millionaire”). In a week, “Precious” would be the centerpiece selection at the New York Film Festival.  
“I decided I should cut my hair,” Daniels said, running his hand over his closely cropped head. The dreadlocks were gone. Daniels no longer looks like a wild child, but older, more sober. “I’m in another place right now,” he said. “I realize I don’t have to sing a song or dance a dance just to make my dream come true. I’ve got Oprah!” 
Winfrey’s involvement with “Precious” was encouraged by Tyler Perry, perhaps the most successful African-American in the movie business, who joined her as an executive producer. The subject matter of the film resonated with both of them: Winfrey has spoken often about the sexual abuse she suffered as a young girl, and earlier this month, Perry described being mercilessly beaten by his father. With two of the biggest forces in black entertainment involved, Lionsgate bought “Precious” for $5.5 million. They might have wanted to keep Perry happy: in the last four years, Lionsgate, which distributes Tyler Perry’s films, has sold more than $400 million in tickets. Perry’s movies, which are rooted in comedy but have dramatic elements, are mostly about successful, largely middle-class black women with the same issues as their white counterparts: wayward men, complex marriages, difficult children. 
“My mom loves Tyler Perry’s movies,” Daniels said. “She prefers his films to mine. Tyler is the polar opposite from me as a filmmaker. His work speaks to people who want to live in that Huxtable/Cosby world. We’ve had such a difficult time as a race of people, why not live in Tyler Perry’s world?” Daniels ordered his usual steak. “Whether you’re white, black or anything else, it’s hard to look truth in the face,” Daniels continued. “And, thank God, Tyler Perry was man enough to acknowledge the truth of ‘Precious’ and embrace it. There’s only one African-American success story in movies, and that’s Tyler Perry. I want to bring my DNA into that machine so I can make some money.”  
Daniels seemed to be joking, but he did not laugh. “You know,” he said finally, “I didn’t think Obama was going to win. My kids called me a racist. They said, ‘You’re out of touch.’ ” And then I met Obama at an event in Santa Barbara. He was with Michelle. And Michelle! She is sexy. When I met Obama, I realized I’d been prejudiced by years of feeling unworthy. And that’s the message of ‘Precious.’ My world is dark, but the light is coming on.”  *VI.* 
AT THE NEW YORK Film Festival, Daniels was nervous. With the exception of Mo’Nique, who decided to stay in Atlanta, his entire cast was there. Sidibe was resplendent in a long purple gown with a plunging neckline, and Lenny Kravitz, who was living in Paris at the time, headed to New York on the Queen Mary and attended the Saturday-night screening at Alice Tully Hall. Daniels’s next film is likely to be “Iced,” the story of a crack-addicted, Harvard-educated lawyer, starring Kravitz. “Lee has made himself a part of my life,” Kravitz told me. “After we met a few years ago, he visited me on tour. He rode the bus. And then, when I was back in New York, he started coming over for dinner all the time. This summer, he was staying with my cousins in the Bahamas, finishing a script. He has become part of my family.”  
Around his cast, Daniels was ebullient. But earlier in the day, at a news conference following a screening of the movie, he was restrained and self-conscious. The questions were not particularly compelling, but Daniels, dressed in a three-piece suit, answered as if he were on a diplomatic mission. It was as if he had been coached to treat “Precious” as an Important Film With Major Intentions. His answers were polite, careful and flat. Finally, one journalist asked him if he was trying to cast an overly harsh light on inner-city life. “I always look for that gray area,” Daniels said, sounding like his old dreadlocked self. “Even the most evil person was somebody’s baby at one time. And that’s where life is lived. I’ve never been that comfortable with black and white.”    _Lynn Hirschberg is editor at large for the magazine._

----------


## rockzmom

I also located the script for Precious if anyone is interested... This is when it was still called "Push" as it was adapted from the book of the same name by Sapphire.  http://www.lionsgateawards.com/docs/script_precious.pdf 
The article Lampada posted is interesting to read. It really does shed light on the movie business and the racisim within the business and within the "races" themselves. Maybe it is why movies like these, the ones that are painful to watch, the ones that cost the least to make, the shortest to time to make, the main characters are not known to us...are sometimes the best for us to watch.

----------


## gRomoZeka

The last movie I watched was a Swedish film '*Låt den rätte komma in*' (200 :: . It's *"Впусти меня"* ('Let me in') in Russian and *'Let the Right One In'* in English. 
I won't be retelling the plot as it appears to be a rather acclaimed and famous movie (I stumbled on it by pure chance, though), and you can read everything in details here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_the_Right_One_In_(film) 
I'll just mention that this is a story of friendship/love between two lonely 12 yrs olds, one of whom is harbouring a dark secret, and another has serious problems with the classmates (..or serious problems. Period). Even though the movie is vampire related, it feels suprisingly real.  
I was amazed at first how similar Sweden is to the USSR. The clothes, cars, all the tiny little details, even people and yards to some extent - everything reminded me of the old Soviet films from 25-35 yrs ago. Wow... But after watching half a movie I checked wikipedia and found out (somewhat to my disappointment  :: ) that the story takes place in the early 80's.  ::   So kudos to directors for recreating this time so well! 
Just a few snapshots to show you what I meant:  
The way everything seemed so familiar (winter yard in the twilight, weird metal contruptions that are supposedly remains of the playground, etc.) added to the feeling that it's strange, but possible. That it can be happening in the nearby house/yard, in fact. 
Despite of all the gore and bulling it's a quiet, melancholic  movie. It put me into philosophical mood. Is everything that is done in the name of love can be justified? If the answer is "No" (as it seems to be), does it mean that the "real love" is not necessarily a good thing? What is better: to love a monster or to be alone? Is Oscar one little sick boy, or maybe to the contrary he's a better person than many, more compassionate and forgiving? 
I can't say that I loooved this movie, but I really enjoyed it and I recommend it to anyone, who's not too squirmish and who doesn't mind slow-paced stories.   *An official trailer is here:* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICp4g9p_rgo
I think that it gives a slightly wrong impression and looks more like a "Boo!" kind of horror movie than the film is. Probably because they packed all the 'exciting' moments into less than 2 minutes.. It does become more brutal and dark toward the end, but still.. 
Has anyone else seen it (or has read a book)? What do you think?

----------


## Hanna

Oh I haven't seen or heard of the film, despite being Swedish... But I live in England right now, I guess I missed it. I'll check it out, it seems very good.  Thanks for the review!  In England you hardly ever hear of films that are not in English - people aren't interested.   _But you are right that there are some similarities between Sweden and Russia. The climate is a big similarity and the way people look.  Plus after 90 years of Social Democracy (more or less) there is a lot of things that you'd probably recognise from USSR era (I mean good things).  
I know the area that the film was made in - a suburb South of Stockholm which was built as part of an old programme that the government had to build one million flats in 10 years. Would be fun to watch a film from there._

----------


## rockzmom

Okay, you may have noticed I have not been posting as much (and then again you may not have). My headaches of late have just been a bit much for me and trying to write in proper English on top of that, well...  
Anyway... I thought for a second that I might have taken too much medication when I heard the plot for this movie from the Syfy channel, "Beyond Sherwood Forest." When I checked it out, I found a review online which is much better than anything I could write right now! 
Of course, I do plan on watching this once I feel up to it. I mean come on... Dragons and Vampires with Robin Hood... can't miss that! You can find the DVD version of this out on the Web already. 
BTW, if anyone did watch it (cough, Alex, cough)... please let us know your thoughts! 
So here is the trailer... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIgsSRvI5fc 
And here is the very good review...  
ENJOY!   

> *Beyond Sherwood Forest: The Fantasy of Robin Hood?*  http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=...=blog&id=58380 
> Syfy’s weekly original movies are generally good for two things: 
> 1) Mansquito.
> 2) Saying, “Sure, this is bad, but it’s no Mansquito.” 
> However, even SyFy’s single-minded quest to make the worst movies ever hit a snag this weekend, when they presented Beyond Sherwood Forest. It’s Robin Hood, with a dragon, and it should have been awful. 
> Shockingly, it wasn’t. Don’t get me wrong, it was no great shakes either, but it was just as entertaining as any episode of the recent BBC series. Better, it felt like there was a certain amount of tongue-in-cheek self-awareness of the trappings of the legend. (The blatant Prince of Thieves moment above is followed by the slow-motion path of the arrow...which bounces harmlessly off the dragon as Robin looks on, dismayed. Reader, I cracked up.) 
> So, if even SyFy can make a decent Robin Hood flick, that begs the question: what makes a legend tamper-proof? 
> The easy answer to the first question is that no legend is tamper-proof; Prince of Thieves beat the Robin Hood legend to a bloody pulp fifteen years ago. However, unlike other legends that have been buried by bad movie adaptations (Dear Greek Myths: so sorry about Troy), Robin Hood seems to survive all the spoofs and TV series that can be thrown at it, and Beyond Sherwood Forest is no exception. 
> See, Julian Sands is creepy. (Well, also his character is, but that’s incidental.) He kills Robin’s father and chases Robin into the woods, where little Robin grows into a comely outlaw whose Sanctuary contract must have had a rider that begins, “Sooooo, we do these weekly movies...” 
> ...

----------


## rockzmom

THE WOMEN FILM CRITICS CIRCLE AWARDS 2009 
I have actually managed to watch a few of these while lying around here... 
I've seen: Julie & Julia, Precious, Grey Gardens, & Up.  
Has anyone one else seen any of these films?  
BEST MOVIE ABOUT WOMEN
*TIE
Coco Before Chanel
My One And Only 
BEST MOVIE BY A WOMAN
Julie & Julia: Nora Ephron 
BEST WOMAN STORYTELLER [Screenwriting Award]
Sunshine Cleaning: Megan Holley 
BEST ACTRESS
Abbie Cornish: Bright Star 
BEST ACTOR
Ben Foster: The Messenger 
BEST YOUNG ACTRESS
Sidibe Gabourey: Precious 
BEST COMEDIC ACTRESS
Meryl Streep: Julie & Julia 
BEST FOREIGN FILM BY OR ABOUT WOMEN
Seraphine 
BEST FEMALE IMAGES IN A MOVIE
American Violet
Amreeka
The Baader Meinhof Complex
Inglourious Basterds
Lemon Tree
The Messenger
My Sister's Keeper
Sweet Crude 
BEST THEATRICALLY UNRELEASED MOVIE BY OR ABOUT WOMEN [Includes films
released on DVD or TV, or screened at film festivals, in recognition of the
limited opportunities available for films by and about women on screen]
Grey Gardens 
BEST EQUALITY OF THE SEXES
Julie & Julia 
BEST ANIMATED FEMALE
Princess And The Frog: Anika Noni Rose as Tiana 
BEST FAMILY FILM 
Up  
LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD: Gertrude Berg [Posthumous]: Yoo-Hoo Mrs.
Goldberg: Aviva Kempner, director 
ACTING AND ACTIVISM: Emma Thompson - For her work on and off screen against
sex trafficking 
*ADRIENNE SHELLY AWARD: For a film that most passionately opposes violence
against women:
Precious 
*JOSEPHINE BAKER AWARD: For best expressing the woman of color experience in
America
American Violet 
*KAREN MORLEY AWARD: For best exemplifying a woman's place in history or
society, and a courageous search for identity
An Education 
COURAGE IN ACTING [Taking on unconventional roles that radically redefine
the images of women on screen]
Isabella Rossellini: Green Porno 
THE INVISIBLE WOMAN AWARD [Supporting performance by a woman whose
exceptional impact on the film dramatically, socially or historically, has
been ignored]
Olivia Williams: An Education 
BEST DOCUMENTARIES BY WOMEN: 
GROUNDBREAKER: The Beaches of Agnès, Agnès Varda 
ABOVE AND BEYOND: American Casino, Leslie Cockburn 
COURAGE IN FILMMAKING: Tattooed Under Fire, Nancy Schiesari

----------


## rockzmom

WARNING! Johanna, you will NOT approve of the ending!  ::   
However, this is a VERY clever little short. After you watch it the first time, go back and pause it at the :50 second mark so you can read the scrolling breaking news.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFK_XuVqsCQ

----------


## Waterlaz

> WARNING! Johanna, you will NOT approve of the ending!   
> However, this is a VERY clever little short. After you watch it the first time, go back and pause it at the :50 second mark so you can read the scrolling breaking news.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFK_XuVqsCQ

 Ha! This is brilliant.

----------


## Basil77

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFK_XuVqsCQ   Ha! This is brilliant.

 Yeah, I like it too!   ::

----------


## starrysky

> ACTING AND ACTIVISM: Emma Thompson - For her work on and off screen against
> sex trafficking

 I love Emma Thompson! I've recently read her "Diaries" about "Sense and Sensibility" -- she comes across as a very funny, witty, and intelligent person.  
Haven't seen any of those movies, though. I think I'd like to watch "Coco before Chanel". If anyone _has_ seen it, do share your impressions!

----------


## Hanna

Shocking video Rockzmom!!! I am horrified!   ::   ::  
So un-PC!  Perhaps DDT and Dogboy made it...  
That lamp could have been re-educated... It probably came from a bad factory and was not fully responsible for how things turned out...    ::  
======================================
About the female-centred films   ::   ::   ::  
100% interesting post.  
Would you believe it - I haven't seen a SINGLE ON of those films. I have Grey Gardens on my hard drive but haven't watched it.  
I will definitely watch out for those.  
And I agree with Starrysky that Coco C. is a very interesting person. There was a time when I practically worshipped her, but no longer... 
Also agree that Emma Thompson is an allround excellent person. I'm pretty sure she's got a degree in... English I think, from Oxford or Cambridge. She's much more than a pretty face (in fact, I think she's 45 or so by now).  I admire her a lot. Another English actress who is cool is definitely Kate Winslet.

----------


## Zombie Acorn

Are there any popular tv shows that are shown online with english subtitles?  All of these older youtube vids have been taken down due to term violations.

----------


## rockzmom

> Are there any popular tv shows that are shown online with english subtitles?  All of these older youtube vids have been taken down due to term violations.

 Zombie Acorn.. Welcome to MR!
I had not realized that some of the videos were no longer valid! 
As for your question... hmmmm.. I am not the best person to answer that as English is my native language. HOWEVER, I think it might be best to download the TV show of choice and then the subtitles and match them up together. That is what we tend to do with the Russian films   ::   
As for what TV shows.. I have often recommended Gilmore Girls as a very good show as it uses "real" American English and it is how people really speak. One on top of the other in half spoken, run on sentences. They also have a number of references to pop culture with music, film and books. One can learn a great deal besides English from watching this series. Also, the scripts for these are available online so you can read everything. 
I know that House, M.D. is another one that is very well acted and has a great script. 
Anyone else have suggestions?

----------


## rockzmom

Wow!!! We are doing pretty well here on our "little" thread. The nominations are out for the Golden Globes and look at how many of them we HAVE been posting about over the last year!!   _Please feel free to post comments about any of these nominations or ones that you thought should have been nominated but were not._ 
Best Motion Picture - Drama
Avatar
The Hurt Locker
Inglourious Basterds
Precious: Based On The Novel Push By Sapphire
Up In The Air 
Best Performance by an Actress in a Motion Picture - Drama
Emily Blunt – The Young Victoria
Sandra Bullock – The Blind Side
Helen Mirren – The Last Station
Carey Mulligan – An Education
Gabourey Sidibe – Precious: Based On The Novel Push By Sapphire 
Best Performance by an Actor in a Motion Picture - DramaJ
Jeff Bridges – Crazy Heart
George Clooney – Up In The Air
Colin Firth – A Single Man
Morgan Freeman – Invictus
Tobey Maguire – Brothers 
Best Motion Picture - Musical Or Comedy
(500) Days Of Summer
The Hangover
It's Complicated
Julie & Julia
Nine 
Best Performance by an Actress in a Motion Picture - Musical or Comedy
Sandra Bullock – The Proposal
Marion Cotillard – Nine
Julia Roberts – Duplicity
Meryl Streep – It's Complicated
Meryl Streep – Julie & Julia 
Best Performance by an Actor in a Motion Picture - Musical Or Comedy
Matt Damon – The Informant!
Daniel Day-Lewis – Nine
Robert Downey Jr. – Sherlock Holmes
Joseph Gordon-Levitt – (500) Days Of Summer
Michael Stuhlbarg – A Serious Man 
Best Performance by an Actress In A Supporting Role in a Motion Picture
Penélope Cruz – Nine
Vera Farmiga – Up In The Air
Anna Kendrick – Up In The Air
Mo'nique – Precious: Based On The Novel Push By Sapphire
Julianne Moore – A Single Man 
Best Performance by an Actor In A Supporting Role in a Motion Picture
Matt Damon – Invictus
Woody Harrelson – The Messenger
Christopher Plummer – The Last Station
Stanley Tucci – The Lovely Bones
Christoph Waltz – Inglourious Basterds 
Best Animated Feature Film
Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs
Coraline
Fantastic Mr. Fox
The Princess And The Frog
Up 
Best Foreign Language Film
Baaria (Italy)
Broken Embraces (Spain)
The Maid (La Nana) (Chile)
A Prophet (Un Prophete) (France)
The White Ribbon (Das Weisse Band - Eine Deutsche Kindergeschichte) (Germany) 
Best Director - Motion Picture
Kathryn Bigelow – The Hurt Locker
James Cameron – Avatar
Clint Eastwood – Invictus
Jason Reitman – Up In The Air
Quentin Tarantino – Inglourious Basterds 
Best Screenplay - Motion Picture
District 9
The Hurt Locker
Inglourious Basterds
It's Complicated
Up In The Air 
Best Original Score - Motion Picture
Up
The Informant!
Avatar
A Single Man
Where The Wild Things Are 
Best Original Song - Motion Picture
"Cinema Italiano" – Nine
"I See You" – Avatar
"I Want To Come Home" – Everybody's Fine
"The Weary Kind (Theme From Crazy Heart)" – Crazy Heart
"Winter" – Brothers 
Best Television Series - Drama
Big Love 
Dexter 
House 
Mad Men
True Blood  
Best Performance by an Actress In A Television Series - Drama
Glenn Close – Damages 
January Jones – Mad Men 
Julianna Margulies – The Good Wife 
Anna Paquin – True Blood 
Kyra Sedgwick – The Closer 
Best Performance by an Actor In A Television Series - Drama
Simon Baker – The Mentalist
Michael C. Hall – Dexter
Jon Hamm – Mad Men
Hugh Laurie – House 
Bill Paxton – Big Love 
Best Television Series - Musical Or Comedy
30 Rock
Entourage 
Glee
Modern Family
The Office 
Best Performance by an Actress In A Television Series - Musical Or Comedy
Toni Collette – United States Of Tara
Courteney Cox – Cougar Town
Edie Falco – Nurse Jackie
Tina Fey – 30 Rock 
Lea Michele – Glee 
Best Performance by an Actor In A Television Series - Musical Or Comedy
Alec Baldwin – 30 Rock
Steve Carell – The Office
David Duchovny – Californication
Thomas Jane – Hung 
Matthew Morrison – Glee 
Best Mini-Series Or Motion Picture Made for Television
Georgia O'Keeffe
Grey Gardens
Into The Storm 
Little Dorrit
Taking Chance  
Best Performance by an Actress In A Mini-series or Motion Picture Made for Television
Joan Allen – Georgia O'Keeffe 
Drew Barrymore – Grey Gardens
Jessica Lange – Grey Gardens 
Anna Paquin – The Courageous Heart Of Irena
Sigourney Weaver – Prayers For Bobby  
Best Performance by an Actor in a Mini-Series or Motion Picture Made for Television
Kevin Bacon – Taking Chance 
Kenneth Branagh – Wallander: One Step Behind 
Chiwetel Ejiofor – Endgame 
Brendan Gleeson – Into The Storm 
Jeremy Irons – Georgia O'Keeffe  
Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role in a Series, Mini-Series or Motion Picture Made for Television
Jane Adams – Hung 
Rose Byrne – Damages
Jane Lynch – Glee 
Janet McTeer – Into The Storm 
Chlo Sevigny – Big Love  
Best Performance by an Actor in a Supporting Role in a Series, Mini-Series or Motion Picture Made for Television
Michael Emerson – Lost 
Neil Patrick Harris – How I Met Your Mother 
William Hurt – Damages 
John Lithgow – Dexter 
Jeremy Piven – Entourage

----------


## Zombie Acorn

> Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn  Are there any popular tv shows that are shown online with english subtitles?  All of these older youtube vids have been taken down due to term violations.   Zombie Acorn.. Welcome to MR!
> I had not realized that some of the videos were no longer valid! 
> As for your question... hmmmm.. I am not the best person to answer that as English is my native language. HOWEVER, I think it might be best to download the TV show of choice and then the subtitles and match them up together. That is what we tend to do with the Russian films    
> As for what TV shows.. I have often recommended Gilmore Girls as a very good show as it uses "real" American English and it is how people really speak. One on top of the other in half spoken, run on sentences. They also have a number of references to pop culture with music, film and books. One can learn a great deal besides English from watching this series. Also, the scripts for these are available online so you can read everything. 
> I know that House, M.D. is another one that is very well acted and has a great script. 
> Anyone else have suggestions?

 English is my native language also, which is why I am clueless about finding good Russian shows  ::  (I see now that I wasn't very clear in my initial posting). 
I have just started learning Russian and am now just trying to build a basic Russian vocabulary, not sure what TV shows are popular in Russia or if TV in Russia is anything like what we have in the US.

----------


## rockzmom

> English is my native language also, which is why I am clueless about finding good Russian shows  (I see now that I wasn't very clear in my initial posting). 
> I have just started learning Russian and am now just trying to build a basic Russian vocabulary, not sure what TV shows are popular in Russia or if TV in Russia is anything like what we have in the US.

 Ahhhhh.   ::  too funny, sorry about that. Let's try again shall we?
Way back on page 13, I had posted a listing of RUSSIAN movies and cartoons and such... most of which have ENGLISH subtitles. I just did a quick check of those and only one had a bad link and I fond a new link for that one. As it is WAY back on page 13, I guess I should repost it here for new comers to the thread like you! 
The cartoons are not like the ones we have here in the US, the are VERY well done and you might want to start with those. If I remember correctly, there was a thread about subtitles not too long ago and most Russian shows do not have subtitles (if I am wrong, someone please jump in here and correct me).  We also have a music thread and Playlist on YouTube which has a number of Russian songs. In the thread we have most of the lyrics. That might assist you in picking up a few words AND Lampada posts a great number of songs in Russian with their lyrics as well. 
Now, back to watching things on YouTube, there is one user there who has a Channel, http://www.youtube.com/user/birubirFilms, there you can easily find many Russian films with English subtitles.   ==================================================  =  *Master Russian Film List* UPDATED as of DECEMBER 16, 2009  
Below is a list of RUSSIAN films & CARTOONS/ANIMATED FILMS! (at the bottom after the films) and current links!  If you want me to add a film (or I missed one), please let me know and provide a link for me (one with English subtitles would of course be VERY nice). Unless otherwise noted, the links provided all have ENGLISH subtitles. 
If you find any broken links, errors, or better links, please let me know! 
Alphabetical order (English)*   *"12"* (razgnevannyh muzhchin), 2007
 (Crime/Drama/Thriller) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_(film)
(This film is based off of an American play and the 1957 American film "12 Angry Men")  http://www.mininova.org/tor/1964056%...0DVD%20quality   *“17 Moments of Spring”*, (Семнадцать мгновений весны), 1973 
( Adventure/Drama/War/Spy/History)   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevente...ents_of_Spring 
Summary that might help if you have never read the book http://www.sovlit.com/spies/17moments.html 
Theme song http://download.sovmusic.ru/m/mgnoven.mp3 (thanks starrysky)  
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links: 
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/8573042000/17_M...rt_01.avi.html 
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/8564013000/17_M...rt_02.avi.html
Part 3: http://narod.ru/disk/8565491000/17_M...rt_03.avi.html
Part 4: http://narod.ru/disk/8568356000/17_M...rt_04.avi.html
Part 5: http://narod.ru/disk/8570771000/17_M...rt_05.avi.html
Part 6: http://narod.ru/disk/8560804000/17_M...rt_06.avi.html
Part 7: http://narod.ru/disk/8654589000/17_M...rt_07.avi.html
Part 8: http://narod.ru/disk/8656399000/17_M...rt_08.avi.html
Part 9: http://narod.ru/disk/8659038000/17_M...rt_09.avi.html
Part 10: http://narod.ru/disk/8661156000/17_M...rt_10.avi.html
Part 11: http://narod.ru/disk/8664119000/17_M...rt_11.avi.html
Part 12: http://narod.ru/disk/8653012000/17_M...rt_12.avi.html 
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy.
Part 1 file size 701 mb
Part 2 file size 677 mb
Part 3 file size 496 mb
Part 4 file size 700 mb
Part 5 file size 656 mb
Part 6 file size 486 mb
Part 7 file size 535 mb
Part 8 file size 466 mb
Part 9 file size 688 mb
Part 10 file size 468 mb
Part 11 file size 493 mb
Part 12 file size 522 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s43d3XGbbF4 (English Subtitles) Part 1/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VL0mLBN4VU (English Subtitles) Part 2/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPhl_28JbbY (English Subtitles) Part 3/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EcC6tUJtNo (English Subtitles) Part 4/12 (1/ :: . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK7A4EKkwcU (English Subtitles) Part 5/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS67-nhX4xI (English Subtitles) Part 6/12 (1/ :: . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpxh3JYzWhY (English Subtitles) Part 7/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsuABKZC2fo (English Subtitles) Part 8/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRLgcQBnv5I (English Subtitles) Part 9/12 (1/ :: . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eihx_XPj9pM (English Subtitles) Part 10/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiBAakG6qsg (English Subtitles) Part 11/12 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKJPGC4h7tY (English Subtitles) Part 12/12 (1/7).   *"An Usual Wonder"* aka "An Ordinary Miracle", (Обыкновенное чудо, Obyknovennoye chudo), 1978 (Comedy/Fantasy/Musical/Romance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Ordi...le_(1978_film) 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links: 
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/7490213000/Usua...art-1.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/7495214000/Usua...art-2.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 545 mb, Part 2 file size 561 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV_wnsa86kg (English Subtitles) Part 1 of 2 (1/ :: . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OFTCxTAbv4 (English Subtitles) Part 2 of 2 (1/7).   *“Anna Karenina”*, (Анна Каренина), 1967 
(Drama/Romance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina_(1967_film)  
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links:
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/9399847000/Anna...art-1.avi.html 
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/9402574000/Anna...art-2.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 780 mb, Part 2 file size 693 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlcgRFRbE_A (English subtitles). Part 1/2 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlzzngOLudE (English subtitles) Part 2/2 (1/6).   *"Battleship Potemkin"*,( Броненосец «Потёмкин», Bronyenosyets Potyomkin), 1925
(Drama/History/War) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battleship_Potemkin 
Two ways to watch online! http://vodpod.com/watch/49049-battle...in-1hr-12-mins
OR
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPXAXP0Zl-s
Part 2:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBz-5ltUbnM    *"Beware of the Car"*, (Береги́сь автомоби́ля) 1966 
(Comedy/Crime/Romance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beware_of_the_Car 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/10590138000/Bew..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 622 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ShikJjPu6g Part 1/9   *Burnt by the Sun*, (Утомлённые солнцем), 1994
(Drama)
(A sequel has been announced and is due to be released in 2010) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnt_by_the_Sun  *Awards*
Winner, Oscar (Academy Award), Best Foreign Language Film 1994.
Winner, Grand Prize, Cannes Film Festival 1994 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/12909988000/Bur..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 1.66 gb:. 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maiSAdCN1DQ  Part 1/14   *“Charodey" or "Sorcerers" or "Magicians”*, (Чародеи), 1982 
(Family) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charodey  http://torrents.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1288203
(could not find English subtitles though...)   *"Day Watch"*, (Дневной дозор, Dnevnoi dozor), 2006
(Action/Fantasy/Horror/Thriller) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_Watch
(This film is the second of four, loosely based on the novels by Sergei Lukyanenko)  http://movie25.com/day-watch_669.html   *“Formula of Love”*, (Формула любви), 1984
(Romantic Comedy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_of_Love_(film)  http://www.memocast.com/mediadetails.aspx?id=25932   *“Gentlemen of Fortune”*, (джентльмены удачи), 1972
(Comedy/Crime/Drama/Mystery/Romance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen_of_Fortune 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/7332007000/Gent..._subs.avi.html 
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 947 mb. 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBaslOFO6Ow (English subtitles). Part 1 of 9   *"Heart of a Dog"*, (Собачье сердце, Sobachye serdtse), 1988
(Drama/Sci-Fi) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_a_Dog  *Awards*
Winner, Prix Italia for Fiction, for the 1989 Prix Italia Awards (Italy) 
THREE WAYS TO WATCH!!!
Part 1: http://www.guba.com/watch/3000012924...78d56532c5010a
Part 2: http://www.guba.com/watch/3000013241...d6e248a8bb11fe 
English Subtitles: http://www.divxtitles.com/subtitles/...Heart_of_a_dog http://english.getsub.org/english-su...of-a-dog-18693  
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links:
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/8698665000/Hear...art_2.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/8700504000/Hear...art_1.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 619 mb, Part 2 file size 619 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEuzB9zomn0 (English Subtitles) Part 1 of 2 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toVkNXDDyQU (English Subtitles) Part 2 of 2 (1/7).   *“Hello, I’m Your Aunt!”*, (Здравствуйте, я ваша тётя!), 1975
(Musical Comedy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello,_I'm_Your_Aunt! 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/4176019000/Hell..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy.
The file size 617 mb. 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkrF4swOnOU   (English Subtitles). Part 1 of 10   *"Irony of Fate"*, (Ирония судьбы, или С лёгким паром) 1975
(Romantic Comedy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_of_Fate 
(This film is traditionally broadcast in Russia and some other former Soviet republics every New Year's Eve) 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link:
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/13720593000/The...art-1.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/13717599000/The...art-2.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 1.35 gb, Part 2 file size 1.14 gb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rg3OC6XJY0 Part 1/2 (1/10) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRgLerlnjmo Part 2/2 (1/ ::    *"Ivan Vasilievich Changes Occupation"*, (Иван Васильевич меняет профессию) 1973
(Action/Adventure/Comedy/Sci-Fi) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Va..._to_the_Future 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/12231502000/Iva..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 1.11 gb. 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQnwOVo7xes Part 1/9   *"Kidnapping, Caucasian Style"* or "Prisoner of the Caucasus", or "Shurik's New Adventures", (Кавказская пленница, или Новые приключения Шурика, Kavkazskaya plennitsa, ili Novie priklucheniya Shurika), 1967
(Action/Adventure/Comedy/Music/Romance)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapp...aucasian_Style 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link:  http://narod.ru/disk/7333230000/Kavk..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 532 mb. 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC9zASOCUI0 (English subtitles). Part 1 of 8   *"Kin-dza-dza!"*, (Кин-дза-дза!), 1986
(Sci-Fi/Comedy/Drama) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin-dza-dza!  http://rapidlinks.ru/link/?lnk=13024
And watch it with these subtitles http://www.divxsubtitles.net/page_su...n.php?ID=99972   *"Night Watch"*, (Ночной дозор, Nochnoy dozor), 2004
(Action/Fantasy/Horror/Thriller)
(This film is the first of four, loosely based on the novels by Sergei Lukyanenko) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_W...s.avi.html</a>
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 803 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6MWS0Xqokk (English Subtitles) Part 1 of 10.   *"The Diamond Arm"*, (Бриллиантовая рука), 1968: 
(Action/Adventure/Comedy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Arm 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link:  http://narod.ru/disk/7326997000/Bril..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 650 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjxjkYTcqRw (English subtitles). Part 1 of 10.  
(please note, when I first watched online, it had a very bad Russian soundtrack, not certain if it has been fixed)   *"The Hounds of the Baskervilles"*, (Приключения Шерлока Холмса и доктора Ватсона: Собака Баскервилей), 1981
(Crime/Mystery) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hou...es_(1981_film) 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links:  
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/4358781000/Houn...art_1.avi.html 
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/4358782000/Houn...art_2.avi.html  
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 408 mb, Part 2 file size 393 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwR-sW2sN5w(English Subtitles) Part 1/2 (1/7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV0oUI-Ytv0  (English Subtitles) Part 2/2 (1/7).   *"The Lady with the Little Dog"*, (Дама с собачкой, Dama s sobachkoy), 1960
(Drama/Romance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lad...the_Dog_(film)  *Awards*
Winner Diploma of Merit, Foreign Actor (Aleksey Batalov) at the 1962 Jussi Awards (Finland) 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/8820502000/Lady..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 969 mb  
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EtFg4yJVJc (English Subtitles) Part 1/8   *"The Master and Margarita"*, (Мастер и Маргарита), 2005
(NOTE: This is the 10 part mini-series from 2005, below there is the information and link for Yuri Kara's Version )
(Drama/Mystery/Romance/Thriller) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mas...05_miniseries)  
Music from this 2005 series: http://www.tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158401 (this link has 8 songs including the main introduction song) http://mp3forum.com.ua/showtopic81183.html (this link has the full 2 disk CD from the series)  *THIS IS THE MINI SERIES (Bortko's version) Below is the link for Yuri Kara's Version* 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links: 
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/3892370000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/3892715000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 3: http://narod.ru/disk/3893441000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 4: http://narod.ru/disk/3893631000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 5: http://narod.ru/disk/3900056000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 6: http://narod.ru/disk/3918570000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 7: http://narod.ru/disk/3934994000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 8: http://narod.ru/disk/3935347000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 9: http://narod.ru/disk/3935673000/Mast..._subs.avi.html
Part 10: http://narod.ru/disk/3935860000/Mast..._subs.avi.html  
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy.
Part 1 file size 267 mb.
Part 2 file size 297 mb.
Part 3 file size 299 mb
Part 4 file size 214 mb
Part 5 file size 214 mb
Part 6 file size 255 mb
Part 7 file size 269 mb
Part 8 file size 243 mb
Part 9 file size 346 mb
Part 10 file size 202 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT:  http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...6621C6BE790253 Playlist 50 parts  *"The Master and Margarita"*, (Мастер и Маргарита) (NOTE: THIS IS FOR Yuri Kara' VERSION)
(Drama/Mystery/Romance/Thriller) http://www.masterandmargarita.eu/en/...karagered.html 
You can download this video at:  http://www.tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23399 (In Russian ONLY ...have not found English subtitles for this yet)  
"*The Meeting Place Cannot Be Changed*" (Место встречи изменить нельзя, Mesto vstrechi izmenit nelzya), 1979
(Adventure, Crime, Mystery, Action)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mee...not_Be_Changed 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy. 
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links: 
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/8035702000/Meet...art-1.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/8036856000/Meet...art-2.avi.html
Part 3: http://narod.ru/disk/8037731000/Meet...art-3.avi.html
Part 4: http://narod.ru/disk/8038736000/Meet...art-4.avi.html
Part 5: http://narod.ru/disk/8034737000/Meet...art-5.avi.html 
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy.
Part 1 file size 577 mb
Part 2 file size 661 mb
Part 3 file size 555 mb
Part 4 file size 572 mb
Part 5 file size 681 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImeK_EUu314 (English Subtitles) Part 1 of 5   *“The Return”*, (Возвращение), 2003
(Drama) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_(2003_film)  *Awards*
Nominated, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 2004 Golden Globes (Hollywood Foreign Press Association)
Winner, 'CinemAvvenire' Award (Best Film), Golden Lion, Luigi De Laurentiis Award, SIGNIS Award, and Sergio Trasatti Award, at the 2003 Venice Film Festival 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/5475378000/The_..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 897 mb  
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faK4pLJxx4k (English Subtitles)  Part 1 of 10   *“The Stroll”*, (Прогулка Progulka), 2003 
(Drama/Romance) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372478/ 
Found a poor copy of it online in Russian and then found English subtitles for it:
movie: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...69710602626284
English subtitles: http://www.allsubs.org//search-subtitle/progulka+/10 
Here is a review from someone in Moscow that was posted on Amazon  http://www.amazon.com/The-Stroll-Pro...dp/B0002FCJQ6:   *"The Thief"* (Вор, Vor), 1997
(Drama) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thief_(1997_film)  *Awards*
Nominated, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1998 Oscars (Academy Awards, USA)
Nominated, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1998 Golden Globes (Hollywood Foreign Press Association)
Winner, Best Actor (Vladimir Mashkov), Best Actress (Yekaterina Rednikova), Best Director (Pavel Chukhraj), Best Film
& Best Music at the 1998 Nika Awards (Russia)
Winner, Prize of the International Youth Jury, The President of the Italian Senate's Gold Medal, and UNICEF Award, at the 1997 Venice Film Festival
Winner, Best Young Performer in a Foreign Film (Misha Philipchuk), at the 1998 Young Artist Awards (Los Angeles, Ca)  
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/10070192000/Thi..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 658 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJboCGxMxEk (English Subtitles) Part 1/9   *“The Very Same Munchhausen”* (Тот самый Мюнхгаузен, Tot samyy Myunkhgauzen)  1979
(Comedy/Fantasy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Very_Same_Munchhausen 
WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj82II0EAks Part 1/14  *"Volkodav (Wolfhound)"*, (Волкодав), 2006/2007
(Fantasy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkoda...nd_Clan_(film)
torrent only   *"War and Peace"*, (Война и мир, Voyna i mir), 1968
(Drama/ History/Romance/War) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_and...281968_film%29  *Awards*
Winner, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1969 Oscars (Academy Awards, USA)
Winner, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1968 Golden Globes (Hollywood Foreign Press Association)
Winner, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1968 New York Film Critics Circle Awards
Winner, Best Foreign Language Film, at the 1968 National Board of Review Awards, USA  
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following links:
Part 1 'Andrei Bolkonsky': http://narod.ru/disk/6895046000/War_...art-1.avi.html
Part 2 'Natasha Rostova': http://narod.ru/disk/6936056000/War_...art-2.avi.html
Part 3 '1812': http://narod.ru/disk/6939877000/War_...art-3.avi.html
Part 4 'Pierre Bezukhov': http://narod.ru/disk/6946055000/War_...art-4.avi.html 
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 1.15 gb ,Part 2 file size 782 mb, Part 3 file size 652 mb, Part 4 file size 772 mb  
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihV-ZJ-GAA (English Subtitles) Part 1/4 (1/14). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGtmdHOXjg (English subtitles). Part 2/4 (1/9). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scgLxPHHdR4 (English subtitles). Part 3/4 (1/ :: . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsD6lsCpPQg (English subtitles). Part 4/4 (1/9).   *"White Sun of the Desert"* , (Beloe Solntse Pustyni/Белое солнце пустыни), 1969 
(action/Adventure/Comedy/Drama/War/Western) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Sun_of_the_Desert 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link: http://narod.ru/disk/9221552000/Whit..._subs.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. The file size 697 mb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDEpRLPbSGM   *CARTOONS/ANIMATED Short Films!*  *“Film Film Film!”*  (Фильм, Фильм, Фильм), 1968
Animated Short Film by Fyodor Khitruk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film,_Film,_Film  *Awards*
- Grand Prize in Colombo, Sri Lanka 1973
- Official Selection of Tampere, Finland 1970
- Official Selection New York, USA 1969 
WATCH ONLINE AT: 
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfwm7bMTKCM
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moQkOXrLoqU   *"Once Upon a Dog",* (Once Upon a Time There Lived a Dog), (Жил-Был Пёс), 1982
Animated Short Film (more cartoonish) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_Upon_a_Dog 
WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A64rHrDJ3NE   *"Three from Buttermilk Village"*, (Three from Prostokvashino), (Трое из Простоквашино, Troye iz Prostokvashino)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostokvashino 
WATCH ONLINE AT:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOebKn_WhI0
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hnPSSnS1g0
Part 3: (coming soon) ???   *"Winnie the Pooh"* 
WATCH ONLINE AT:
Episode 1: Adventures of Winnie the Pooh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqdiEUp6s4E
Episode 2: Winnie Pooh Goes Visiting (Vinni Puh Idet v Gosti) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qam9JBk5Oig
Episode 3: Winnie Pooh and the day of Concerns 
part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73uIn56G1YE
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtVVRuy1T9c  
*updated December 16, 2009 
added links for:
Beware of Car
Ivan Vasilievich Changes Occupation
The Irony of Fate
The Very Same Munchhausen

----------


## Hanna

::   ::  *Rockzmom you are amazing!*  ::   ::   
I have wanted to see some of these films with subs, but I don't know how to find subs other than the standard subtitle sites, and they don't have a lot of Russian subs.
This is amazing.  
Btw, I have come to the conclusion that the best way to learn from a film is definitely to watch it several times. Ideally first with subs in a language you fully understand. Then again with Russian subs to.  
It is interesting to watch films in this way - the third time you watch a film you start noticing all sorts of interesting details.

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## Zombie Acorn

Great! Thanks for all of the links!   ::

----------


## rockzmom

> *Rockzmom you are amazing!*    
> I have wanted to see some of these films with subs, but I don't know how to find subs other than the standard subtitle sites, and they don't have a lot of Russian subs.
> This is amazing.

 Johanna.... 
Make certain that if you have not yet done so... you watch "Irony of Fate" between now and New Years! I plan on watching this one again!!   ::   
"Irony of Fate", (Ирония судьбы, или С лёгким паром) 1975
(Romantic Comedy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_of_Fate 
(This film is traditionally broadcast in Russia and some other former Soviet republics every New Year's Eve) 
You can download this video (avi-file with English subtitles, DivX or XViD, 25 fps) from Russian Yandex-server. It's very easy.
How to download a movie:
1. Enter the following link:
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/13720593000/The_Ir ... 1.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/13717599000/The_Ir ... 2.avi.html
2. Enter the numbers placed in the window over the green button.
3. Press the green button "СКАЧАТЬ".
4. A page will open with the link starting with http//. Press the link.
Notes: If you don't want to install Yandex Bar, please remove the sign from the control box (into the yellow background). Yandex Bar performs a function for downloading without using control numbers, i.e. next time, if you want to download any file from Yandex-server, you’ll get the download link without entering control numbers.
5 A window will open. Choose "Save".
6. Download the movie.
7. Enjoy. Part 1 file size 1.35 gb, Part 2 file size 1.14 gb 
OR WATCH ONLINE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rg3OC6XJY0 Part 1/2 (1/10) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRgLerlnjmo Part 2/2 (1/ ::

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## Basil77

"12 месяцев" ("Twelve months"), a beautiful New Year children fairytale written by S. Marshak, I liked this cartoon a lot in my childhood: 
part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq0hUk2yKr8
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4om61vEuLU
part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz1heLLKJIk
part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLmNrYR4Hwc
part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1M7HuqLJo8 
I'v found an anime version of this tale on youtube recently and was amaized watching it, it's even more close to the original book than the Soviet version!   ::   
part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=602Ez2VoJ4I
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9K5Ukjdl8 
part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiCfZ5u285Q
part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk6960oRC7E
part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDniFgF-vpY
part 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE8GVuemQ-g

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## Hanna

> watch "Irony of Fate" between now and New Years! I plan on watching this one again!!

 Wow, thank you soooo much! Last time I saw that film was probably in the early 90s or something like that. I will watch it, for sure. I am going to find some Russian subtitles too, if I can, and expand my vocabulary a bit.  
For learners:  _I have come to the conclusion that you can learn a lot by first watching the films with English subs, and then with Russian subs... Guaranteed to teach you at least a few new words. I recently watched an old Russian film in this way called "Gentlemen of Fortune". Class film and incidentally several characters speak quite slowly most of the time, and use very basic vocabulary.  With Russian subtitles I was able to understand a lot of what was said._

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## rockzmom

I think, maybe, well yes.. I am finally getting around to watching "The Meeting Place Cannot/Should Not Be Changed" ... I know, me with the memory issues picks these hard things to watch. Well, I get to stop and start and watch it over and over until I figure it out and as I can watch them whenever I want and in bed and then ... I can ask you all for help if I still don't understand... it all works out ...right???  ::   
Anyway, rightaway because I still have not learned anything besides what, Спасибо and пока, I am having some problems... will someone help me? 
The opening song, in "general" what it is about?
What does the sign at :21 seconds say?
What does the big sign  at 1:12 seconds say?
Room 13, they zoom in yet don't translate what the room is for at 3:07... so what is that Office?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImeK_EUu314 
thanks! or Спасибо!

----------


## Ramil

> I think, maybe, well yes.. I am finally getting around to watching "The Meeting Place Cannot/Should Not Be Changed"

 Great. It's a rare case when the movie is much better than the book.   

> The opening song, in "general" what it is about?

 We stormed the city of Orel and marched through the city and we read the name of the last street. It has the name of Bryansk. Thus our next destination is Bryansk. Then we stormed Bryansk and marched through the city and read the name of the last street it was named after Minsk... then we stormed to Minsk and the last street was named after the city of Brest... then we stormed Brest and the last street was named after Lublin, then Warsaw, then Berlin.  http://9may.ru/songs/m1597 http://9may.ru/songs_store/naberlin.mp3  
What does the sign at :21 seconds say?  
Glory to the victorious warrior.   

> What does the big sign  at 1:12 seconds say?

 It reads: We have won.   

> Room 13, they zoom in yet don't translate what the room is for at 3:07... so what is that Office?

 Gangsters fighting department. G. Zheglov

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## rockzmom

Thank you! Ramil!  ::   
I am just amazed by the ice cream sandwich maker thingy at 8:50.... has anyone actually seen one in person? Is it still in use today?

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## Ramil

> Thank you! Ramil!   
> I am just amazed by the ice cream sandwich maker thingy at 8:50.... has anyone actually seen one in person? Is it still in use today?

 At first I thought you were asking about the icecream itself. It's been very popular in Soviet times although I keep seeing it even novadays occasionally. It's not really a sandwich, just two thin wafers and a brick of icecream between them.   
Of course those ones in my childhood vere tastier.  ::  
What concerns the 'maker thingy' - I don't think it is used now. There are sanitary regulations for one thing and besides, it's cheaper to do such 'sandwiches' at the factory.

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  Thank you! Ramil!   
> I am just amazed by the ice cream sandwich maker thingy at 8:50.... has anyone actually seen one in person? Is it still in use today?   At first I thought you were asking about the icecream itself. It's been very popular in Soviet times although I keep seeing it even novadays occasionally. It's not really a sandwich, just two thin wafers and a brick of icecream between them.

 Ahhh... we call them "ice cream sandwiches" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream_sandwich  

> Ice cream sandwiches are frozen desserts composed of a layer of ice cream of any variety "sandwiched" between two cookies or slices of cake

 They now come with cookies too, but they just never seem to be as good as the old fashioned ones!

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## rockzmom

hehehe...as it is Christmas Eve here in the States... take a break from the traditional "It's A Wonderful Life" and enjoy "The Worst Noel" with Al Bundy and his family! http://www.megavideo.com/?v=928VTNYX 
Here is the script if you need it or want it: http://www.albundy.net/marriedaniac/...ipt/0813t.html

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## Basil77

> The opening song, in "general" what it is about?

 That's not an opening song, Rockzmom. It's just a background song, it plays from a street radio loudspeaker. 
BTW, Merry Gregorian Christmas to everyone!

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  The opening song, in "general" what it is about?   That's not an opening song, Rokzmom. It's just a background song, it plays from a street radio loudspeaker. 
> BTW, Merry Gregorian Christmas to everyone!

 Basil, thanks for clarifying.... ----------------------
Okay folks there is one major advantage to not being able to sleep at nights... watching the shows on TV! And this one goes hand-in-hand with Married with Children! 
We've talked about 3rd Rock From the Sun before, so if any of you newbies don't know about this show, please go back in this thread and learn about it first before watching this episode, trust me it will help! 
The Solomons experience their first Christmas. Merry Watching!  ::  
part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gsNNcCpUws
part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CgHUO8ANk4
part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ffLNyBJ2W0

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## rockzmom

okay, next question about "The Meeting Place Cannot/Should Not Be Changed" ...  
what is the book at 3:33? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkT1TUcRIk
Note to anyone who might want to make subtitles... please include these little types of details!  
Also, I know I have asked questions before about the habit of cigarette smokers when I was watching "Seventeen Moments of Spring"... I see that detective Gleb Zheglov (who I am really liking BTW) has a habit of blowing into the ends of his cigarettes. Why does he do this?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6WIkIkMlZc start watching at 5:08 and then he takes out another cigarette and does it again. He has a habit of this throughout the episode so far that I have watched. And once again, as I have never smoked, I don't understand why one would do this.

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## gRomoZeka

He's reading "Криминалистика" ("Criminalistics") - a textbook on forensic science, investigation and interrogation techniques, etc. 
As I'm not a smoker myself, I'm not sure about cigarettes (BTW, I think he smokes "papirosy" - cigarettes without filter). But I've heard that it has something to do with the quality of tobacco filling in Soviet cigarettes. It was either too dense, or maybe vice versa. You had to knead it a little, and to blow into it.

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## gRomoZeka

ADDED: Aha! I've found an explanation on the other forum. They do it to blow away the fractions of tobacco, that happen to be in the "filter end" of the cigarette (and since there's no actual filter in 'papirosy', just a holllow paper tube, they can be unpleasant)

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## Basil77

> I see that detective Gleb Zheglov (who I am really liking BTW)

 If you haven't like him for some reasons, you should imideatily stop watching these series. IMHO if there wasn't Vysоtsky it would be an ordinary crime fiction movie.
About blowing into papyrosses... Sorry, I can't help you with any helpful hints, although beeing a rather heavy cigarette smoker I can't imagine why they were blowing into... Although I had seen this many times in my childhood, and even was wondering, like "why adults are blowing into the paryroses?", I still don't know for what purpose that is done for?

----------


## studyr

> what is the book at 3:33? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkT1TUcRIk
> Note to anyone who might want to make subtitles... please include these little types of details!

 The book is "Криминалистика"="Criminalistics  ". I'm agree with birubirFilms that it's not important.   

> Also, I know I have asked questions before about the habit of cigarette smokers when I was watching "Seventeen Moments of Spring"... I see that detective Gleb Zheglov (who I am really liking BTW) has a habit of blowing into the ends of his cigarettes. Why does he do this?

 Gleb was smoking papirosa (cigarette with a cardboard holder). Tobacco crumbs can get to a smoker's mouth. To avoid that smokers blow or knock them out and deform cardboard holder    

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6WIkIkMlZc start watching at 5:08 and then he takes out another cigarette and does it again. He has a habit of this throughout the episode so far that I have watched. And once again, as I have never smoked, I don't understand why one would do this.

 He was so distressed, angry, irritated that he just blown tobacco off from his cigarette. You can see it at 5:28

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## devochka

Merry Christmas everyone!
С Рождеством!  
Rockzmom, now I want to watch Al Bundy and 3rd Rock from the Sun! Too bad I'm at work (and hardly... uhm hard at work...) so I'll have to have some patience. Thanks for the links!

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## Hanna

*      Originally Posted by devochka  Merry Christmas everyone!
С Рождеством!   * From me too!  _Wow it's so hard to imagine Christmas being a regular day in Russia! In my country we celebrate for 3 days in a row.... But on the other hand, that saves you the super commercialistic and rather tacky build-up to Christmas.._ 
Yesterday when I was at the Swedish Church here in London, I ran into some Finnish people I know. I mentioned that i had partly used my break from work to study Russian, and we started to talk about Russian TV.   
Somebody mentioned a series she had watched a bit of, called *«Колдовская любовь»*. I thought sounded good, so when I got home, I found it online and watched a couple of episodes.  
From my perspective it was interesting to see the Russian countryside as it looks today, just as much as the plot.   
Unfortunately I simply couldn't understand enough to really appreciate the plot --- I was only able to understand the very basics.   *Has anyone seen this series?*

----------


## Lampada

> *      Originally Posted by devochka  Merry Christmas everyone!
> С Рождеством!   * From me too! 
> Somebody mentioned a series she had watched a bit of, called *«Колдовская любовь»*. I thought sounded good, so when I got home, I found it online and watched a couple of episodes. 
> From my perspective it was interesting to see the Russian countryside as it looks today, just as much as the plot.  
> Unfortunately I simply couldn't understand enough to really appreciate the plot --- I was only able to understand the very basics.  *Has anyone seen this series?*

 Merry Christmas (to those who celebrate it)! 
I loved "Колдовская любовь".  viewtopic.php?f=23&t=16126
I haven't watched the second season of it yet.  I'll try to find it on-line.

----------


## gRomoZeka

*7 невест ефрейтора Збруева / (SEVEN BRIDES OF CORPORAL ZBRUEV), 1971* 
I found this movie very funny when I watched it the first time, and I wanted to rewatch it since then. It still amazes me that the censors actually authorised such a script in 1971. There are no anti-Soviet sentiments, of course, but the image of the "Soviet soldier" in this movie is not what you can expect. The "proper" protagonist (especially if he/she is a Soviet soldier  ::  ) should have been helpful, modest, brave, honest etc., etc., and usually if the protagonist deviated too far from this image it was looked upon by the authorities. It doesn't mean that all the characters in Soviet movies were poster children (far from it) , but you get the idea. 
What do we have here? An ordinary guy and an exemplary soldier whose face was on the cover of the "Skilled Warrior" magazine, decides to meet his 7 (seven!) penpals (read 'mail brides') to choose one and only. He's not slimy or indecent, but he's flirty in his clumsy country way (he flirts with ALL the female characters) and naively full of himself, though not disgustingly so (and we later see that he does have many hidden talents). 
Just some stray thoughts:  *1. CUBAN CIGARS*
The first laugh I had was in the beginning, when Zbruev (a showoff that he is) buys CUBAN SIGARS (40 kopecks a piece) in an ordinary train. The cigars were always viewed as something "foreign" (a nesecassary atribute of cartoonish imperialists) and it was beyond weird, that they sold them in shabby train vagons like that.   _- Do you have a last year issue of "Skilled Warrior"?
- We don't sell rubbish.
- Your loss._    *2.THE DANCE*
Upon seeing "Pulp Fiction" I was sure for a long time that Tarantino "borrowed" the dance that V.Vega and Mia performed from that movie!! It's an scene when Zbruev buggs a haughty conductor until she agrees to teach him how to dance.  _- What dance is popular among the civilians now?
- "The Leg". It means 'a leg' in English.
- Is it any good?
- It's modern._  
Now I see that their dances differ more than I thought, but some funny moments are the same. Like when they take off their shoes for some reason, and make weird hand moves.  ::   *3. BRIDES* 
a) *A stranger.* 
Zbruev was so busy dancing "The leg" that he missed his station, and they've never met.   
b) *A naive student.* _"OMG! Why has he come?"_ Awkward...    *[VIDEO]"Zbruev!"* *watch at 3:20*  ::  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqb4aTKIhmI 
c) *A famous actress* who promptly asks him to do various housework.   
d) A gushing and oh-so-romantic *librarian*, who immediately makes wedding plans.   _"I'm always dreaming, dreaming! Tell me, do you want to fly away sometimes ? Does it happen to you?"
"... Aha.. Often."_  *[VIDEO] "What happened?"* *9:06-9:30* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMHIMoNXEfo 
e) *A komsomol activist.* 
Zbruev is impressed!  
Unfortunately, she has a husband and was writing to Zbruev as a part of her work "on establishing connections with army". 
f) A nice *village girl*, who's perfect, but she tells him off when she learns that she's not the only one.  
g) *** SPOILERS ***
A man! Seriously.  _"That was me who wrote to you"_   
4. Also do not miss *SCARY BABOOSHKAS.* Hilarious! *5:50-6:00* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM4HnyqvToY 
5. And I love these *guys* who appear out of the blue throughout the film! They remind me of singing mice from "Babe".   ::   *5:45* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMHIMoNXEfo 
That's all.  I hope you enjoyed it.  ::

----------


## Hanna

The film seems pretty charming and a bit of a bit of a "time machine trip" back in time... Did you happen to notice if there were any subtitles? 
I think I will look for it and add it to my growing collection of Russian films on my hard drive. Bittorrent is a great thing....  
I don't know if I'm imagining, but in the older films the actors seem to speak both slower and more clearly. They are even using simpler words. Strange, but that's how it seems to me!

----------


## Hanna

> I loved "Колдовская любовь".  viewtopic.php?f=23&t=16126
> I haven't watched the second season of it yet.  I'll try to find it on-line.

 The plot is about witchcraft in a rural village in Russia, during more or less present time, i.e. 2008. 
I really like the series. Good plot, and  it's unbelievable how much Russia has in common with Scandinavia in terms of nature, building styles and some traditions. I have to admit that the village from the series looks very old-fashioned to me though. I wonder what it's like in the winter when it gets cold.   
Sadly, I can only understand about 25% of what is said. So I don't know what's happening! I don't understand what the mysterious doll was from the first episode, or what the villagers said about the milk that had turned black. I couldn't understand why Zhenia's mother was ill (there was definitely something mysterious about her illness). 
EDIT - I noticed an English mistake! Lamps, you wrote: _Merry Christmas (to those who celebrates it)! _ There should not be an "s" on celebrate. I think it's because "those" = "they" = plural = no "s".....

----------


## gRomoZeka

> I don't know if I'm imagining, but in the older films the actors seem to speak both slower and more clearly.

 I agree.They really cared about enunciation during Soviet times.   

> Did you happen to notice if there were any subtitles?

 Only in Russian: http://subtitry.ru/subtitles/294275252/

----------


## alexB

> hehehe...as it is Christmas Eve here in the States... take a break from the traditional "It's A Wonderful Life" and enjoy "The Worst Noel" with Al Bundy and his family! http://www.megavideo.com/?v=928VTNYX 
> Here is the script if you need it or want it: http://www.albundy.net/marriedaniac/...ipt/0813t.html

 “Where have I heard that voice?” was the question I couldn’t answer for a while after hearing the lady utter a few words. I’m not familiar with the characters, don’t know her name yet but I knew at once that I heard the voice somewhere. But then it struck me,  ::  *Turanga Leela * from *Futurama*, that’s where, right? It can’t be otherwise, I know.

----------


## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  hehehe...as it is Christmas Eve here in the States... take a break from the traditional "It's A Wonderful Life" and enjoy "The Worst Noel" with Al Bundy and his family! http://www.megavideo.com/?v=928VTNYX 
> Here is the script if you need it or want it: http://www.albundy.net/marriedaniac/...ipt/0813t.html   “Where have I heard that voice?” was the question I couldn’t answer for a while after hearing the lady utter a few words. I’m not familiar with the characters, don’t know her name yet but I knew at once that I heard the voice somewhere. But then it struck me,  *Turanga Leela * from *Futurama*, that’s where, right? It can’t be otherwise, I know.

 You have an great ear there Alex! Yes, that is Katey Sagal and she has been in a ton of stuff http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005408/  
And her father, Boris Sagal http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0755963/ , was a Director and Producer and was born in  Dnepropetrovsk, Russia (now Ukraine).

----------


## CoffeeCup

> 2.THE DANCE
> Upon seeing "Pulp Fiction" I was sure for a long time that Tarantino "borrowed" the dance that V.Vega and Mia performed from that movie!! It's an scene when Zbruev buggs a haughty conductor until she agrees to teach him how to dance. 
> Now I see that their dances differ more than I thought, but some funny moments are the same. Like when they take off their shoes for some reason, and make weird hand moves.

 Every time when I saw the Pulp Fiction's dance I did always had a feeling like I should know very well where this dance came from. But I always confessed that this dance was performed in such a cute and fantastic way that it catches a viewer from the very first frame and this gives the viewer such a feeling. But today gRomoZeka has dug the real origin out why we do think that this dance looks really familiar to us.   ::

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  Note to anyone who might want to make subtitles... please include these little types of details!    I[s:1d2rbbej]&#39;m[/s:1d2rbbej] agree with birubirFilms that it's not important.

 Oh studyr... you are so wrong on this one and here is why... 
In this film, the director not only shows these "clues" or little details of information just in passing by, noooooo, he then pushes the camera in on them and holds the frame. He WANTS to make certain the viewer has time to read the information, the office name, the book title, the posters, banners and so on. If it were not important, he would have done as he did with the magazine later on and just not show the cover and only show the character reading it or holding it.  
So, if it was that important that the director has gone to such length, it is important that the information be translated into English or whatever language the subtitles are. The viewer NEEDS this information or at least should be able to have it just as the director wanted it.  
When a film is edited, it has to flow and as this was for TV it had to be a certain length too. Imagine how much time could have been saved or how the movie could have been without the close-ups, and yet... the director still kept those scenes... they were important to him for some reason. He fought to have them left in and so, when doing subtitles, that same care should be taken to honor that and make the nonRussian viewer have as much as possible the same feel and experience as a Russian viewer.

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## studyr

> In this film, the director not only shows these "clues" or little details of information just in passing by, noooooo, he then pushes the camera in on them and holds the frame. He WANTS to make certain the viewer has time to read the information, the office name, the book title, the posters, banners and so on. If it were not important, he would have done as he did with the magazine later on and just not show the cover and only show the character reading it or holding it.

 Sharapov just intended to refresh his knowledge of criminalistics. What an important information can be produced out of it?   

> The Solomons experience their first Christmas. Merry Watching!  
> part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gsNNcCpUws
> part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CgHUO8ANk4
> part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ffLNyBJ2W0

 Recently, I watched "500 days of summer". It's funny to see little Tommy again.

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## gRomoZeka

> Sharapov just intended to refresh his knowledge of criminalistics. What an important information can be produced out of it?

 The title of the book cannot be unimportant, if it was demonstrated to us in such a purposeful manner. 
The possible implications are:
a) He tries to educate himself
b) He relies on book knowledge more than Zeglov, who relies on his experience and street smarts. 
So it's probably one more detail that emphasizes the contrast between two main characters. Their difference is a significant part of the series, if I remember correctly.

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## rockzmom

This morning, one of the TV folks used the quote "Slowly I turn, step by step, inch by inch" and then he said, "I bet most of you don't even remember that one." I realized he was right and asked my family and none of them knew the phrase. 
It is funny because all you have to do is type "slowly i t" in Google and it comes up! 
Here are 3 versions  
Three Stooges http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yJBhzMWJCc 
Abbott & Costello  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr6VBg1SiYI 
I Love Lucy starts at 2:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIhptklh53U

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## rockzmom

The girls are watching Looney Tunes, I think Pepé Le Pew, and I hear the line, "You do know how to whistle don't you?" 
Of course they have NO CLUE where that comes from... one of the best scenes in all movie history....  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gFpoXYAm0o

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## gRomoZeka

_[not a real review, but my impressions. And I'd like to hear what you think about this movie and series in general]_ 
I've just watched *"Terminator Salvation"*, and I liked it. Liked it a lot. First I was completely unspoiled, because I even didn't know they released it yet (yes, someone needs to bring me up to date), and it was a very pleasant surprise to see Christian Bale as John Connor. He's a great actor, and he alone makes half the film. Second, I could care less about seing more Terminators or Schwarzenegger or whatever, and had no expectations about the plot. I guess it helped, because (and I'm repeating myself) I liked that movie a lot. The casting and the romatic line were probably made with female audience in mind, and it worked for me. Not sure about you, guys. I've heard, T4 was not received well. )))) 
But really.. Handsome taciturn guys in artfully shredded clunky uniforms, gritty postapocalyptic atmosphere, road chases (hello, Mad Max), fights and resistance that actually looked like resistance (unlike sad longfaced mutants in *"Equilibrium"*)- what not to like? It reminded me popular action movies from my childhood (*"Cyborg"*, anyone?). Even an obligatory "cute kid" was not annoying, and supporting cast was not bad either. The young guy who played Connor's father shined in the *"Hearts in Atlantis"*, and it was nice to see him again (did you know that he's Russian and was born in St.Pete?).  
The only thing that could be better is the ending. I'm not talking about ressurecting a certain character or changing it altogether, but it could have been played better. The transplantation in the middle of the desert without even bothering about blood types and such was the most unrealistic part of the movie. What's even worse it felt rushed, we were not given even a couple of minutes to contemplate what had happened. Other than that - a great movie in it's genre.  
Did you like it? 
PS.   ::

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## Hanna

No, I haven't watched this Terminator film and I am not sure I even watched the originals. Well maybe one of them, the one where Sarah Connor got locked into a mental hospital. _Hasta la vista baby!_  
Haven't seen the Cyborg film from 1989 either!   
But I did watch the recent series "Terminator, Sarah Connor Chronicles". It was good because it was partly from the point of view of Sarah and a female terminator who was "good". But the series got cancelled after only one or two seasons. This seems to happen to all TV series that I like. I wish they go back to making series that run for 10 years... Or why not 20 years like English "Coronation Street" and "East Enders". Unfortunately those are very boring though.  
And have of course seen Cheburashka. Apart from the Russian original, there was also a spin-off series that ran for a decade, at least, which was actually produced in Sweden. A sort of a "chat show"/"documentary" for kids, hosted by  Gena and Cheburashska. Cult.

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## gRomoZeka

> No, I haven't watched this Terminator film and I am not sure I even watched the originals. Well maybe one of them, the one where Sarah Connor got locked into a mental hospital. _Hasta la vista baby!_  
> Haven't seen the Cyborg film from 1989 either!

 It's from 1984.  ::  I'm not a huge fan of the 'Terminator' franchise, but this film (Terminator 1) holds special significance for me. It was the first 'real' American movie I have ever seen. By 'real' I mean a contemporary and unapproved by censors movie, that people watched on VHS (they were called "видеофильмы", or "видики"). The movie itself was so different from anything that was showed in Soviet theatres, that we were overwhelmed, and for the first 20 or so minutes we were just gaping (and thought that Terminator and the guy, who came to save Sarah are the same person, only in different clothes)  ::  
Also by pure coincidence in a few scenes, when an answering machine was used, they showed an iguana, and I thought for some time that it was a talking iguana who had been trained to receive calls... I was like "Mom, do they realy have lizards like that in America, or it's just a sci-fi?"  ::  Seems like a different world now.  

> But the series got cancelled after only one or two seasons. This seems to happen to all TV series that I like. I wish they go back to making series that run for 10 years...

 Oh, it's a pity. ( That happened to me too. I liked a TV show about a talking toddler, and it got cancelled after 13 episodes. To add insult to injury, every person, with whom I tried to share my grief, laughed at me. Yeah, it was about a talking toddler, so what?  It was good.  ::   ::   

> And have of course seen Cheburashka. Apart from the Russian original, there was also a spin-off series that ran for a decade, at least, which was actually produced in Sweden. A sort of a "chat show"/"documentary" for kids, hosted by  Gena and Cheburashska. Cult.

 That's the most cool and strange thing I've heard about Sweden yet! Did they look _exactly_ like cartoon Gena and Cheburashka?

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## Ramil

> thought that Terminator and the guy, who came to save Sarah are the same person, only in different clothes

 No wonder considering the quality of the pirated recordings of that time. (Usually such tapes were dubbed from a copy from a copy from a copy ...  and the end result was an assortment of multicolored stripes with some vague picture behind them).

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## rockzmom

Okay everyone! A PM came my way about a Russian Film and English subtitles for it...does anyone have the answer? Has anyone seen this movie?    

> I'm looking for the English subtitles of a movie, called Musulmanin or Мусульманин (1995), directed by Vladimir Khotinenko. I searched the databases of most of the subtitle websites, including the ones in your posts. But I couldn't find it, even the DVD comes without English subtitles. 
> Do you know if there's English subtitles for this movie? Or do you know someone from this forum, who can help me to find the subtitles?..
> Also, if you have seen the movie I'd like to hear some comments about it...*(not spoilers  )*

 I found the IMDb page for the movie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113878/

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## Hanna

Actually most Russian films don't seem to have subtitles.  
Additionally, when you search for the subs there are lots of different possibilities for how the Russian title is translated or transliterated into a European langauge or a Latin letters.  
Quite often it is not transliterated in the English way but in some other way. For some films there are different English titles.   *The main subtitle sites online are allsubs.com subsearch.org subscene.com and opensubtitles.org. *  
If he speaks any other European languages it might be possible to find subs in alternative languages but not in English. He can also check if there are Russian subtitles - it might be easiser to follow if he sees the word written down.    
If he can't find it there with any of the possible spellings, then it probably doesn't exist.

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## Hanna

> That's the most cool and strange thing I've heard about Sweden yet! Did they look _exactly_ like cartoon Gena and Cheburashka?

 Yeah, I think so.. Part of the "story" for the show was that the puppets had travelled from Moscow to Sweden (train, ferry etc). It was explained that they had previously lived in Russia and had all the adventures shown in the Russian cartoon. They also returned to Russia a few times to do "news stories" about kindergartens, playgrounds, fun fairs etc. 
I think this show became so loved by children because of the great interaction between the dolls (Cheburashka was small and VERY stupid, Gena big and very kind & patient.)  It looked like this:   
Based on what I remember seeing back then, the USSR was probably not a bad place to grow up in at all - it certainly looked great in this show at any rate. So many impressive special facilities for children!

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## starrysky

> Okay everyone! A PM came my way about a Russian Film and English subtitles for it...does anyone have the answer? Has anyone seen this movie?

 I've not seen this film but I looked it up and it looks like a good movie... I'd really like to see it. Evgeny Mironov played the main role and he's considered a very talented actor. It's not available on dvd right now, unfortunately, or I would've bought it. It's about a Russian soldier who spent 7 years in Afghanistan as a prisoner of war. An Afghan peasant saved him when he was led to be executed, in consequence of which this young man converted to Islam. However, when he finally returns to his native village, people don't understand him.    
source http://emironov.ru/ 
source http://www.e-mironov.narod.ru/movie/mus/mus-foto.htm 
I've found Russian subs on http://subs.com.ru. They look quite easy so I suppose I could translate it but it would take a lot of time -- a month at least, because I've got a lot of work. So I'm not promising but with time on my hands I could be a good Samaritan.   ::   Send me a PM.

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## studyr

> I've found Russian subs on http://subs.com.ru. They look quite easy so I suppose I could translate it but it would take a lot of time -- a month at least, because I've got a lot of work. So I'm not promising but with time on my hands I could be a good Samaritan.    Send me a PM.

 You can open a new translation at http://notabenoid.com/  so that others could join it.

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## rockzmom

Okay, so some of you have noticed and PM's me that I have been away again for a while.. those darn headaches of mine!!! But as a result of my just hanging around in bed.. I drift in and out and watch lots of movies! DVDs are wondeful to stop and start and rewind! I have no ablility to read these days, so books are out the window for now and the movies have filled there place. 
Now I just need to find the time to write up the reviews! Or at least short thumbs up thumbs down. It might be easier if anyone has a question about any of these to just ask me for I have no idea when I might get the mental state to write reviews. 
So here is the list:
Alice (Syfy Version of Alice in Wonderland) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1461312/
An Education http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1174732/
Avatar (but remember, not in the theater) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/
The Blind Side http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0878804/
Coco Before Channel or Coco avant Chanel http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1035736/
Fantastic Mr. Fox http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0432283/
Good Hair http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1213585/
Inglourious Basterds http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361748/
Invictus http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1057500/
Julie & Julia  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1135503/
Meeting Place Should not Be Changed http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078655/
Precious http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0929632/
The Proposal http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1041829/
Robin Williams: Weapons of Self Destruction http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1560169/
Sherlock Holmes http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0988045/
Twilight New Moon http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1259571/
Up in the Air http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1193138/
Where the Wild Things Are http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386117/

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## Оля

> Meeting Place Should not Be Changed

 Did you like it?   ::

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## Hanna

The film about the guy who becomes a Moslem seems very good. I would like to see it. I guess there were no subtitles then?  
If anyone is interested in Central Asia region, check out a film called "Chimp" "Maimil" from 2001. Slightly existentialistic film from Kyrgistan. It's about a guy who is drifting around before joining the army and about his reflections on the world around him. 90% in Russian and 10% in Kyrgiz. I thought it was pretty cool and funny. I came across it completely by chance and decided to watch it because I am a bit fascinated by Central Asia. The film is available on the "AsianDVDClub" torrent site.

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  Meeting Place Should not Be Changed   Did you like it?

 Now, let's see.. I watched that one just about a month ago... I can't believe I forgot to post about it! I will have to sit myself down and write a proper review as it is a Russian series (bad girl!). However until then, *YES, YES, YES!!! I liked it very much*. I would have enjoyed watching that series for years. It is a shame they could not have some how made a t.v. series from that short miniseries. I could just imagine coming home once a week to turn that on and watch it! What a joy to look forward to after an awful day at work or school!   ::  Johanna, have you watched it yet? I don't want to give anything away if you have not. I will be careful and put a spoiler alert in my review.

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## ac220

> somehow made a t.v. series from that short miniseries.

 Well, there almost wasn't such thing as "TV series" in Western sense of the word on the Soviet TV. They tended to view such things as very long movies, rather than a category in itself.  
The only non-animated exception I can think of is "Следствие Ведут ЗнаТоКи" but even that show  wasn't quite  something one would call "TV series" nowadays.  
And, to be frank... Seing what they did in the sequels( :: , I'm glad no one tried to make a real series from this. 
( ::  I won't even name them. As far as I'm concerned, the sequels never happened. Of course, it's in part because they take place decades later, so no post-war Moscow, no Zheglov and (although he was in the books series were based on)  SPOILER on the "meeting": no _General_ Sharapov, who was replaced by a "generic general." Heck, there goes half the best lines from the books. Why Mosfilm, WHY? And that heavily implied sex  scene. That never happened in the books FOR A REASON, not because Vayner brothers were prudes. And speaking of that, where is the "Your gun? In a handbag? How... Weird. Women shall not carry guns in their handbags. No, not that, no one should need a gun ever!" moment? /Says a cop to his partner, whom he secretly loves. Or does he? We're never told, unlike the movies. And sorry for me not remembering and translating the lines exactly. / Actors are overacting as if they're on the stage, not on the movie set all the time. Or they don't act at all.  
Ok. Must. Stop. Ranting. It's just that such a good movie had such an uninspired sequels...

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## Hanna

rockzmom, you are very considerate, thanks! Actually I don't think I have seen that film ("Meeting place...")But I would like to, because it's been mentioned several times here. I'll watch out for the spoiler alert.   
I downloaded a whole bunch of classic Russian films a few months back, but then I "parked" them and decided to watch more contemporary films instead; films that show present day Russia. Unfortunately those are more difficult for a learner to watch and only rarely have subtitles.  
The older films are really good for learners because the actors speak much more clearly and it's much easier to understand what's being said. I even wonder if they choose simpler words on purpose - there is such a big difference.  
Speaking about series: I think the USSR cinema did "miniseries" though.  I definitely remember a few running on Swedish TV. The one that immediately comes to mind is "Siberiada" which I did not like at the time but wouldn't mind rewatching at some point in the future.    *A site I visited yesterday linked to this interesting BBC story about Russian cinema. Would you agree with the commnents made?   http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8470156.stm*

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## Оля

> I even wonder if they choose simpler words on purpose

 Of course they don't.

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## BappaBa

> *A site I visited yesterday linked to this interesting BBC story about Russian cinema. Would you agree with the commnents made?  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8470156.stm*

 Imho, there's no "fresh blood" in Russian cinema now. Too many today's directors are children of the known parents: Bondarchuk, Konchalovky, Todorovsky, Yankovsky, German... There's no room for ordinary people like Shukshin and many others famous soviet talents.

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## studyr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz0qh0GHrW0 
At 03:14-03:19, is he alluding to Lewinsky?

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## rockzmom

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz0qh0GHrW0 
> At 03:14-03:19, is he alluding to Lewinsky?

 Actually, Monica was an "intern." Congressional "pages" have also been known to end up having sexual relations with members of Congress. A "page" though is a minor (a high school student) and an "intern" is usually a college student. 
here is information about a recent page scandal ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Foley_scandal 
I didn't know this was on YouTube!! Let me know if you have any more questions! This was filmed not far from me. I've been in that theatre before.

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## alexB

Just saw *Groundhog’s Day* on TV, once more of God only knows how many times and it never fails to amaze me. Bill Murray is brilliant. _Call me Bronco.
One adult and…two adults, I guess. 
My father was a piano mover._

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## rockzmom

> Just saw *Groundhog’s Day* on TV, once more of God only knows how many times and it never fails to amaze me. Bill Murray is brilliant. _Call me Bronco.
> One adult and…two adults, I guess. 
> My father was a piano mover._

 Ya know, I was going to have the girls watch that movie this year! So they actually showed it IN Russia on TV on Groundhog's Day?? Too Funny!  
Poor Phil, you get yourself pulled out of a stump by some drunk men   ::  with a bunch of drunk hillbillies   ::  and a gazzillion tv lights in your eyes and see what you think about life???   ::  Then after that, you spend the rest of the year in a glass box in a library on display!

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## Ramil

So, has anyone happen to watch it already? What are the impressions? 
Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jysji45PKgA

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## Hanna

> So, has anyone happen to watch it already?

 Can you summarise the theme of the film?I don't quite understand.  It seems ok. 
Afghanistan is clearly "the new Vietnam" for film makers; in the 1980s some good Vietnam films were made, now the turn has come to Afghanistan.. I think it's terrible that foreign countries have been meddling there since the 19th century... They should be left alone to develop at their own pace... I read of British soldiers who have died there almost every day in the papers... Meaningless deaths.

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## Ramil

It's not about that. This film is based on a true story, unfortunately there are little info about this incident in English, but here's what I've found: 
On 3 August 1995, a MiG-19S fighter operated by the Taliban government intercepted an Il-76TD operated by the Russian airline Airstan and forced it to land in Kandahar. Taliban officials were annoyed at Russian backing of anti-Taliban Afghan forces and wanted to use the crew as hostages for the return of Taliban members believed to be held by the Russians. The Russian government negotiated to no effect; a scheme to perform a commando raid to free the hostages was dismissed as impractical. 
However, the crew was resourceful enough to rescue themselves. They managed to talk their captors into giving them access to the Il-76TD in order to keep it in flightworthy condition, and on 16 August 1996, after over a year in captivity, they made a run for it, taking off with three of their guards along with them, and flying at low level to Iran with a huge cloud of dust in the aircraft's wake. Fighters were scrambled to intercept, but the pilots assumed that the aircraft was heading north to Russia and failed to stop the escape. 
Here's the Wikipedia article about that in Russian.

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## Hanna

My word, that's quite a story. I'd definitely like to see that....

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## studyr

There is another story, it was filmatised as Peshawar Waltz, which you can download from http://depositfiles.com/files/tuecrvnnh (English subtitles).

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## Lampada

> There is another story, it was filmatised as Peshawar Waltz, which you can download from http://depositfiles.com/files/tuecrvnnh (English subtitles).

 viewtopic.php?f=61&t=8996&p=224188&hilit=%D0%9F%D0  %B5%D1%88%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BC%2C+%  D0%B2+%D0%9F%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D  0%BD%D0%B5#p224188

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## starrysky

"Kandagar" looks like a decent movie (and I like Mashkov and Alexandre Golubev, they were both in "Liquidation") but I don't want to see it on big screen -- people getting beaten and tortured and what-not.   ::   
I'm lost to all serious cinema at the moment anyway, as I've been watching lots of Bollywood. Hindi cinema used to be shown quite a lot in the Soviet Union as we had (and have) good relationships with India and it found its audience.
My fave so far is *Kuch Kuch Hota Hai*. An incredibly moving and heart-warming film, full of love, romance, humour, kindness, and great music.  ::  Any one else seen it? Shahrukh Khan and Kajol are the most famous romantic pair of Bollywood (in movies, not in real life).

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## Hanna

I used to follow Bollywood up until about four years ago when I started getting an overdose of India at work. Suddenly I got completely "allergic" to anything Indian because it reminded me of my incredibly stressful work situation which I wanted to forget about as soon as I left there. Worked with lots of Indians (IT outsourcing) 
But I agree with you that the films are entertaining, the plots engaging and the music is fun. Some of it is (at least used to be) incredibly silly, like insane co-incidences and people who are either too sugary nice or pure evil (not enough nuance in the characters).  
Bollywood is quite big in England because of the huge numbers of people from an Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi background who live here. (Known as "Asians") Bollywood is often shown at cinema and many white people enjoy it every now and then.  
I have a feeling Indian cinema is become a bit more artistic and less kitsch. What do you think?

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## Ramil

> Worked with lots of Indians (IT outsourcing)

   ::   ::   ::  
Hindu code?  

```
bool b;
...
if (b.ToString().length < 5){...}
```

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## alexB

> Some of it is (at least used to be) incredibly silly, like insane co-incidences and people who are either too sugary nice or pure evil (not enough nuance in the characters).

 You can’t do without twins, one of whom is lost in his/her babyhood, accidently slipping out of his/her mother’s hands and off the bridge into the foaming brine, when she habitually kicks her foot against a splinter, while running away from her evil uncle Raj, only later to be found by a Gipsy and raised into a feisty rapscallion who’s going to inevitably reunite with his/her meek and obedient sibling and revenge, this time both of them, their mothers tears (no need to remind you that since the moment the child perishes his/her mother’s day starts with crying her eyes out year in year out), childhood hardships and lost profit for the unlucky one.))

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## Hanna

> You can’t do without twins, one of whom is lost in his/her babyhood, accidently slipping out of his/her mother’s hands and off the bridge into the foaming brine, when she habitually kicks her foot against a splinter

 Yeah exactly! Shameless escapism!   ::    

> Originally Posted by Johanna  Worked with lots of Indians (IT outsourcing)       
> Hindu code?  
> 
> ```
> bool b;
> ...
> if (b.ToString().length < 5){...}
> ```

 Hmm... Yeah... 
SOME of them are pretty good but too many are NOT.... And consultancies in general are shameless in that they have no reservation about taking a someone straight out of university, who can barely make himself understood in English and pass him off as a "senior technical analyst" or something like that. 
Don't get me started on all this...    ::   
Plus there is a BIG cultural difference and this sometimes creates fairly frustrating situations particularly when everyone is working under extreme time pressure andf financial pressure.  
N_ot to mention the fact that the whole principle of outsourcing to low-cost countries is not really in line with my principles -- although it's worth noting that their "low" salaries still give them an excellent lifestyle in India -- better in many ways than an equivalent person in Europe. But the truth is, if not for the price, in most cases they would not have been used._

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## Ramil

> ... (no need to remind you that since the moment the child perishes his/her mother’s day starts with crying her eyes out year in year out), childhood hardships and lost profit for the unlucky one.))

 Needless to mention that medieval European literature too is very abundant with plots like that.

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## starrysky

> I have a feeling Indian cinema is become a bit more artistic and less kitsch. What do you think?

  

> Originally Posted by Johanna   Some of it is (at least used to be) incredibly silly, like insane co-incidences and people who are either too sugary nice or pure evil (not enough nuance in the characters).    You can’t do without twins, one of whom is lost in his/her babyhood, accidently slipping out of his/her mother’s hands and off the bridge into the foaming brine, when she habitually kicks her foot against a splinter, while running away from her evil uncle Raj, only later to be found by a Gipsy and raised into a feisty rapscallion who’s going to inevitably reunite with his/her meek and obedient sibling and revenge, this time both of them, their mothers tears (no need to remind you that since the moment the child perishes his/her mother’s day starts with crying her eyes out year in year out), childhood hardships and lost profit for the unlucky one.))

 That's Seeta and Geeta. Is that the only one you've seen? It's an old movie, Bollywood changed quite a bit since then.   ::  But I suspect men shouldn't bother with Hindi movies at all, for the most part. There seems to be a lot of cynicism, narrow-mindedness, and prejudice towards Hindi movies which is a sad thing -- they are not all bad, you know. Among the heaps of crap there are gems. The things that I like about Indian cinema are its beautiful, vibrant colours, traditions and culture, music and dances. All those things absent from the Russian cinema.  
There are now a lot of different Hindi movies, more seriously-minded and so on, like "Swades", which explores the problem of "brain drain", which India faces and which is very topical for Russia as well -- a lot of intelligent, educated people leave the country in search of greener pastures. Bollywood no longer makes only traditional "masala" movies which included all genres mixed into one -- melodrama, comedy, action. In this respect it's moving more towards Hollywood and not everyone likes this. Though modern Indian films are definitely less boring compared to the older ones.   

> Shameless escapism!

 Yeah, who doesn't like a bit of escapism?   ::  I'd say Hindi movies are about celebrating life and having fun.

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## rockzmom

Has anyone heard of or seen "The Music Lesson"??  http://www.greenboxfilms.com/documentaries.html There is a trailer on this site  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1329409/   

> Synopsis: The Music Lesson tells the story of two groups of young people from extraordinarily different backgrounds as they use the power of music to discover each other's worlds. 
> Ten classically trained students from the Boston Youth Symphony Orchestra traveled across the world for a life-changing cultural exchange with a group of students from Laikipia, Kenya, whose tribal elders have passed down the tradition of singing, dancing, and playing music for centuries.

 The Kenyan teacher/percussionist featured in the film and I believe the director will be visiting some of the schools in our area this week and showing the film and then doing a Q&A afterwards. We are going to be able to see it tomorrow.

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## gRomoZeka

I'm watching *"Spartacus: Blood and Sand"* right now. I have not expected it to be any good , but I must admit that I like it!
It's like a little brother to "ROME": more brash and garish, but cute in it's own way. 
What leaves you speechless almost from the first minutes is literally gallons of blood spurting from even the tiniest cut when men are fighting. Some people are unhappy about this because it's too cartoonish. I personally think that it's a bow to the aesthetics of the original comic book (though I have not seen it). After all no one got indignant that people in "City of Sin" were "black & white, right? These moments are very graphic, in the sense that sometimes it looks like a picture from a book, which was an intentional effect, in my opinion. 
There are also a lot of sex charged scenes (including homosexual intercourse and frontal nudity). So this show is definitely not for the young and/or squeamish. 
That aside, the acting is surprisingly good, Spartacus is likable and intense, villains are two-dimesional and there's even a descent plot emerging after 3rd episode or so (more complicated and interesting, than just "Spartacus is fighting on arena").  ::  There are intrigues, fights, romantics and even some tragic events. 
I highly recommend it if:
1) you liked "Gladiator" or "Rome"
2) you are ok with graphic sex and violence 
3) you do not expect historical truth from a show based on a comic book
4) you have sense of humor  It might also be a good idea to watch at least two episodes before you give up on it. ))) 
Official site with trailers to every episode: http://www.starz.com/originals/spartacus

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## Оля

Кто-нибудь видел фильм "Ничего личного" (2007)?

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## gRomoZeka

Ты имеешь в виду 'Duplicity'? (2009)

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## Оля

> Ты имеешь в виду 'Duplicity'? (2009)

 Нет, наш, русский фильм режиссера Ларисы Садиловой. Он 2007 года.

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## rockzmom

Form the Music thread... 
This 1989 Oscar and a Golden Globe winning song is from one of my favorite movies, Working Girl and the song is Let the River Run by Carly Simon. I could re-watch Working Girl almost any day and this version of the song is the one I like the most.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv-0mmVnxPA   

> Great film! I couldn’t help but see it after your passionate introduction. As usual no one has ever heard about it in the video stores, nothing but junk with guns, monsters and stupid car chases there. So I found it on MEGAVIDEO in a not so great resolution, but liked it, regardless.  The song too. Don’t remember seeing Melanie Griffith anywhere before, but here she was nice, I mean beautiful.   I dare not look for what she is like now, for _time can make fools of us all_.

 So... as I said on the music thread, I would post over here why it is that Working Girl http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096463/  is one of my favorite films.  
A lot of it has to do with the fact that I was living in New York when this film came out in 1988 and the film takes place in New York. If you ever wanted to know about what it was like to live in this area of the world during that period... this is the film to watch. The writers, actors and director nailed this one. All the mannerisms and stereotypes are dead-on perfect! The hair too! OMG yes, women in NY and New Jersey wore their hair like that, the higher the better! Today, the sneakers have been traded in for flip-flops. Why on earth they wear flip-flops on the dirty NY streets to work is beyond me! 
The next reason I like this film so much is it is the so correct as to the office politics and reminds me that I am not alone in my experiences with those things. It always give me hope when things at work happen. You see what happens to Tess and you feel for her and you can relate to her because you have been in her shoes! And it is always nice to think (even though you know it is only a movie) that someone has it worse than you. 
Next, it give me hope. I used to watch this movie to give me confidence right before starting a new job or a promotion. Silly, I know, but it is that kind of a film for me... the David and Goliath of the work place. 
Finally, I love the cinematography. The ending shot is amazing and worth waiting for every time! 
So there you have it... my sappy reasons for liking this film. And yes, I own a DVD of it!

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## Оля

> this[/url] thread]Ты по телевизору их смотришь? (Там это всё вырезается)

 Вчера или позавчера я действительно видела по телеку современный (200 ::  российский фильм, в котором была куча мата (он запикивался и заглушался, но всё было понятно), причем совершенно непонятно, зачем он там был. Все эти фразы можно было бы сказать и обычным языком, и у персонажей не было никакого особенного эмоционального накала, когда они их произносили. Фильм назывался "Тот, кто гасит свет". Закос под типичный американский детектив-ужастик, с очень хорошими известными российскими актерами. Куча несуразностей и неправды, в духе "12" Михалкова, плюс издевательский монтаж (куча склеек, "рваные" кадры и т.д.). Меня, кстати, посетила мысль, что посмотри этот фильм американский зритель, фильм бы ему очень понравился. 
Кто-нибудь смотрел?..

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## Hanna

Something about war films that I remembered when I wrote in another thread. It belongs here, I think.  
==================================== 
My opinion (newly founded) is also that the old Russian (Soviet) war films that I have seen recently are better (in my view) than the American ones because they focus on the regular people affected by the war, and they do not over-dramatise events.  
Hollywood films always focus on some specific action and liberally change the historical facts for maximum effect. Plus make all the good people American and great looking...  For me, all this is cliche-ish and not interesting.  
I had never seen a Russian war film until recently,  but now I am glad that I have -- they really give a new perspective. Too bad they were not spread more outside Russia before! A lot of Europeans (like Brits) only knew the American view of the war.   
Some good films about the War that I've seen multiple times because they've run on TV:   *"Heimat"* which is an epic German chronicle that takes place partly during those years. There is a cool sub-plot about a man who walks from Siberia (he was taken prisoner) back to Germany.  
Also, the eternal *"Heroes of the Telemark"* which I've seen on TV about a million times in Sweden. (But they changed most of the Norwegians to Americans and Brits if I remember correctly.)   Films I've seen on cinema: *Pearl Harbour* was a pretty good American war film, I thought.  
"*Hitlerjunge Salomon*" (German) was very good too and allegedly based on the true (completely bizarre) life of somebody who is still alive. There is plenty of bad Russian in the film.   And lately: 
I *REALLY* liked "*А зори здесь тихие*"  and "*Stirlitz*" and have watched a few other ones but missed a lot due to bad or no subs. More on this some other time. *Kukushka* was the first (very good!) film I have seen about the events in Finland (the winter war and ww2). There is a Finnish film called Talvisota (Vinterkriget) about this, from 1990.

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## starrysky

One of the greatest war movies ever is probably "Ballad of a Soldier/Баллада о солдате" (1959). It's a beautiful, heart-breaking film. And it's not difficult to understand at all, as there don't seem to be any specifically "Russian" references -- it's cross-cultural and mostly about the acting and visuals rather than dialogue, politics, etc. There are no battles in the film (except a little piece of action at the beginning). Highly recommended.   ::   
On imdb.com -- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052600/      
I've recently seen *Dil Se (From the Heart)* (199 :: , which is a very unusual Hindi film. Very realistic, grim and gloomy, both in terms of photography and its subject matter. It's about separatism or, more precisely, about the love of a journalist for a terrorist girl. I didn't even know India had problems with separatists. Can't say I really like this film (I generally prefer something more kind, feel-good, eye-candy, humorous) but it was quite interesting and very well acted. Very artistically done and the music is gorgeous. The "Chaiyya, Chaiyya" song was apparently very popular in the UK. Every time I hear it, I go slightly crazy as it's extremely... er, dunno what the English would be for "зажигательный".  ::  It was shot on a moving train. Here it is -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfit3lK_xHs  
The film was a box office failure in India (as such films generally tend to be there) but a success overseas. And it was the first Indian film to enter the top 10 in the United Kingdom box office charts. 
Dil Se at imdb.com -- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0164538/

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## Crocodile

> Every time I hear it, I go slightly crazy as it's extremely... er, dunno what the English would be for "зажигательный".

 Would "inspiring" do fine in this sense?

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## starrysky

> Would "inspiring" do fine in this sense?

 Hmmm... perhaps.   ::

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## Crocodile

> Originally Posted by Crocodile  Would "inspiring" do fine in this sense?   Hmmm... perhaps.

 The issue here is that you can say "зажигательный" only about a very specific type of dance. But "inspiring" can be used in a more generic sense. Like, you can't say that the Swan Lake ballet was "зажигательный", right?

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## it-ogo

> Like, you can't say that the Swan Lake ballet was "зажигательный", right?

 It was completely "разрывной".

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## gRomoZeka

> Originally Posted by Crocodile   Like, you can't say that the Swan Lake ballet was "зажигательный", right?   It was completely "разрывной".

   ::  
Как насчет зажигательный = stirring ?

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## starrysky

> Как насчет зажигательный = stirring ?

 I was also thinking of "rousing" but I don't like it somehow... It seems that this word is ultimately untranslatable. That is to say, you can translate it but something will be lost. Or else I don't know English well enough to pick an ideal equivalent. Maybe someone who is a native speaker will chip in. "Зажигательный" means "which sets smth on fire". In other contexts it can be translated as "incendiary, inflammatory." 
P.S. I've also recently re-watched "The Dawns Here Are Quiet", for the fourth time, I think, and I don't remember if I mentioned it anywhere earlier but it's the one Russian film where Russian is spoken mostly with an accent -- the Northern one, "оканье" -- "гОвОри", "мОлОкО", etc. To tell the truth, I rather dislike it, though you do get used to it after a while. Since the action takes place somewhere in Carelia, it's quite natural. I don't know if people in those regions still have this accent. Also, the language for somebody learning Russian is quite difficult -- "слега" (which can be translated as a "stick"; I only ever saw this word used in the book this film is based on), "не гоношись", "Лизавета Батьковна", "на миру и смерть красна", "мал золотник да дорог" and others. I htink I like the books a bit better, though. Here is the book online -- http://militera.lib.ru/prose/russian/vasilyev1/01.html.

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## rockzmom

On the Learn English thread http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...p?f=29&t=20727 I spoke about the movie Stand and Deliver, as yesterday an amazing educator and person, Jaime Escalante died.  
If you have not seen this movie, it really is an uplifting and inspirational film and I highly recommend it (I do own this DVD). 
I found a link to the film on StageVu http://stagevu.com/video/vebaqxoeixdg.

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## Hanna

> "Ballad of a Soldier/Баллада о солдате" (1959)

 Yes, I want to see it --- but what's a love film when you have no love (romantic) in your life...!!?  Makes me feel lonely! Even though my lack of romance is completely voluntary, it is nevertheless still a bit lonely.  _
(Don't want to get involved because I don't plan to stay in London and I had a terrible heartbreak a while back. Not fully recovered.)_ 
I have a strong feeling that if I watch Баллада о солдате I'll feel as if I can't manage without a man (which is exactly what I am doing...) 
"Dawns here are quiet" is more about friendship camaraderie etc... No romance other than fragments of the memories of the heroines.

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## rockzmom

> "Ballad of a Soldier/Баллада о солдате" (1959)
> 			
> 		  Yes, I want to see it --- but what's a love film when you have no love (romantic) in your life...!!?  Makes me feel lonely! Even though my lack of romance is completely voluntary, it is nevertheless still a bit lonely.  _
> (Don't want to get involved because I don't plan to stay in London and I had a terrible heartbreak a while back. Not fully recovered.)_ 
> I have a strong feeling that if I watch Баллада о солдате I'll feel as if I can't manage without a man (which is exactly what I am doing...) 
> "Dawns here are quiet" is more about friendship camaraderie etc... No romance other than fragments of the memories of the heroines.

 Johanna! Woman! There are times everyone feels that they can't manage without other people... it is what makes us human... but your life should not be defined by a man or lack of a man. No man (or woman) should determine for you where you live or how you live. If you want to live in London or in a hut on a remote island... that should be YOUR choice... and if by chance you are lucky enough in life to meet a man who wants to share that life with you, then great.  
This is the trouble I have with the "Hollywood" idea of romance and marriage. Marriage is WORK people!!! Romance, if you want it, make it happen. Your partner will not always put rose petals all over your bed and light candles and remember your birthday or anniversary! If you want that, you might need do that yourself or TELL them that you want that.  
Now I admit, I do LOVE a good chick flick even though I think they set the expectation for people WAY too high... so Johanna, watch the movie with a pint of ice cream and know... *YOUR LIFE HAS VALUE. YOUR LIFE HAS MEANING. With or without a man.*  (BTW, I would give the same speech to a guy, just change the pronouns 
around!) 
And I fully expect DDT to come along and post something dreadful about my post! So, go on...Bring it on!

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## devochka

I wholeheartedly concur Rockzmom. Of course we do not *need* a man (or woman) to be happy. But still, it's nice to have someone to be happy with.  
And I looooooove chick flicks. Especially with a pint of ice-cream   ::  .  
BTW, has anyone noticed Birubir's channel on youtube is down?

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## Basil77

> BTW, has anyone noticed Birubir's channel on youtube is down?

 What a shame.  ::  Probably another result of RAS' dirty work.

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## Hanna

Rockzmom, devochka; thanks for the moral support!  What you say is true!   ::   ::

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## Seraph

> Как насчет зажигательный = stirring ?

 How 'bout "exhilarating"? 
translation of зажигательный as inflammatory, might not be idiomatic.

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## Seraph

No movies to add, but have been reading Gogol. 
And Kuznetsov's Babi Yar (his updated version).  Almost had a heart attack, several times.   
Books are (almost) always better than movies.   
Is there a thread for books here?  I haven't looked, but now I will...

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## starrysky

> How 'bout "exhilarating"?

 Yeah, great idea! Thanks!    

> Is there a thread for books here? I haven't looked, but now I will...

 There is, there is. Do come over there and tell us more about "Baby Yar". Haven't heard about this book. Only I'm afraid I'm quite done with reading horrible stuff on WWII...

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## Seraph

> Originally Posted by Seraph  Is there a thread for books here? I haven't looked, but now I will...   There is, there is.

 Я ищу книги нить ...

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## LuxDefensor

Try to look for it here http://masterrussian.net/mforum/viewforum.php?f=19

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## CoffeeCup

> Originally Posted by starrysky        Originally Posted by Seraph  Is there a thread for books here? I haven't looked, but now I will...   There is, there is.   Я ищу книги нить ...

 I suppose that starrysky referred to the thread Literature Talk: Russian & Non -Discuss/Review/Q&As.

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## starrysky

Okaaaay, I just continue escaping from reality,   ::   that is, watching Bollywood, and have now seen quite a lot of movies. I have only a few favourites because, frankly, it's very rarely that I like a Bolly film entirely. Most often, it's just some moments or the music that I like. But those films that I do love, I love passionately.   ::   Have become quite a Bolly-maniac though I don't think I'll ever take it as far as some people go and make it to the South Indian cinema. Can't really post normal reviews for all my favourites so I'll just copy-paste my post from another forum listing them and my impressions on some of the films (the first three are mainstream and were very popular while the others are more unusual, art films (Dil Se and Asoka especially):  *Main Hoon Na* (it's a masala movie -- lots of genres mixed into one but it's also quite unique. I have a very soft spot for it because it was my first modern Hindi movie; and anyway I still think it's one great, fun, feelgood solid entertainment. It's a sort of self-parody -- spoofing a lot of Bollywood stereotypes but it also stands on its own as a story. Humour is definitely one of the things I like so much about it.)  *Kuch Kuch Hota Hai* (KKHH) (a love story/melodrama. Liked it the first time round, LOVED it on repeat viewing. My first film with Shahrukh Khan and Kajol -- aah, the chemistry)  *Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge* (DDLJ) (love it. It's just a classic. The first half is incredibly romantic and invariably lifts my mood. Can't help chuckling at many scenes even though I've seen the film three times already. I've noticed that I watch it with a silly smile on my face.)  *Asoka*. SUCH a beautiful, artistic film. SO disappointed it wasn't more successful. Beats me. Didn't think I would like it at all -- since it's got Kareena Kapoor in the leading role (more on that later), and I don't watch that type of period films anyway -- from really ancient times when people went about barely dressed -- because it usually includes lots of violence, battle scenes, and heads and limbs flying in all directions. I was strong enough to see Gladiator on big screen when I was about 16 and though it made a huge impression, I've had enough violence to last me a lifetime. No "Troy" or "Alexander" after that. Especially since those were clearly made because of "Gladiator"'s success. Anyway, Russell Crow is one thing, and Brad Pitt is quite another. If that makes sense, lol.  
The thing that got me about Asoka is that it's such a tragic, poignant story, based on real life too. Shahrukh is just amazing. He managed to portray Asoka's journey really well. And Kareena did very well in all the tragic scenes towards the end. And the music. "Roshni Se" is so incredibly romantic and tragic.   *Dil Se* -- little by little it really grew on me. I now think this film's got some of the most romantic scenes ever... It was shot by the same cinematographer as Asoka -- Santosh Sivan. What a great man, I've become somewhat of a fan.  *Devdas* -- never thought I'd ever call it a fave but I've rewatched it recently looking closely at the acting and it finally got me. This one also has some of the most romantic/beautiful moments in any film I've ever seen. And the ending is heart-rending. Beautifully shot but horrible. Aishwarya is very beautiful in "Devdas" to the point of almost outshining poor Shahrukh though it's one of his best roles -- the rebellious alcoholic Devdas. 
That's it. Those are the films that I think are almost without fault. I expected a lot of _Kal Ho Naa Ho, Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham_, and _Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna_ but those were a bit disappointing. I enjoyed them all right, cried my eyes out at K3G  (don't think I've ever cried so much at any film), but there were a lot of things I didn't like. Like Kareena's character Poo in K3G -- she almost ruined the second half of the film for me! Kajol's character was also very over-the-top in the beginning. Didn't like the songs either (except for Suraj Hua Maddham and Yeh Ladka Hai Allah). 
Kal Ho Naa Ho -- too much silliness, too many silly characters for me... But also cried my heart out in the end.  
Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna -- loved the songs (Mitwa, KANK, Tumhi Dekho Naa -- beautiful, beautiful, beautiful), thought some of the jokes were funny (Black Beast), didn't like Amitabh's character (why the need for so many stupid call girls? And that stupid party, with Rock 'N Roll Soniye song). Think it would be better if the scenes with him were cut and those that didn't make it into the film (like Dev spraying Maya with ketchup) were left. Looooved the love-making scene.   
All right, that's it for now. The crappiest movie I've seen so far was Karan Arjun (fight-song-fight-song...). "Koyla" made by the same team is a bit more watchable (poor Shahrukh's character, Shankar, though -- quite unbearable to see him beaten so much). 
Also saw some films that don't star SRK:  *Rang De Basanti* (very good, powerful movie and no songs/dances, too. But it didn't become a fave as it's a bit too depressing)
Vivah (boring, imho) 
Rang De Basanti  
Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge        
Kajol is such a beauty  
But personality-wise I like Rani Mukerji more  
Devdas          
Main Hoon Na    
Asoka        
Kuch Kuch Hota Hai

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## Seraph

A hint of a possibility of an intuition of a feeling of a realization of an insight has blossomed that this might have something to do with your avatar.  Just a little.

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## starrysky

> A hint of a possibility of an intuition of a feeling of a realization of an insight has blossomed that this might have something to do with your avatar.  Just a little.

 Nay, nay, you're wrong there. It has nothing to do with my avatar whatsoever.   ::   
On a different note, saw in the news today that *"Burnt By The Sun-2" has been premiered*. Is anyone planning to go see it? I'm in two minds. On the one hand, Mikhalkov knows how to make good movies and "Burnt By The Sun" was a very powerful film, on the other... Well, a sequel to such a film sounds so lame. Like a sequel to "Titanic."    
"Burnt by the Sun 2 (Russian: Утомлённые солнцем 2, translit. Utomlyonnye solntsem 2) is an upcoming Russian drama film directed by and starring Nikita Mikhalkov. It is scheduled to compete for the Palme d'Or at the 2010 Cannes Film Festival.[1] It is the sequel to Mikhalkov's 1994 film Burnt by the Sun." 
Directed by Nikita Mikhalkov 
Produced by Nikita Mikhalkov 
Written by Nikita Mikhalkov
Rustam Ibragimbekov
Vladimir Moiseyenko
Aleksandr Novototsky 
Starring Nikita Mikhalkov 
Cinematography Vladislav Opelyants 
Editing by Svetolik Zajc 
Release date(s) 22 April 2010 
Country Russia 
Language Russian  
Discussion in Russian http://forum.kinomania.ru/showthread.php?t=22334 
An article about the film in "Izvestia" http://www.izvestia.ru/culture/article3133168/

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## it-ogo

> On the one hand, Mikhalkov [s:l29vc1qv]knows[/s:l29vc1qv] knew how to make good movies

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## starrysky

> Originally Posted by starrysky   On the one hand, Mikhalkov [s:1dzmuuze]knows[/s:1dzmuuze] knew how to make good movies

 Then it's "used to know".   ::  
I dunno... I liked "The Barber of Siberia" all right though it _was_ a bit of a mess but a touching film nonetheless. And I haven't seen "12".

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## silicium

Listen!! Movies seem to be an excellent thing to discuss)) They are   ::  
But.. What about our cartoons?? Has anyone discussed it here?.. I love them so much.. There so many outstanding cartoons! Pieces of art)))   ::

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## silicium

> I'm in two minds. On the one hand, Mikhalkov knows how to make good movies and "Burnt By The Sun" was a very powerful film, on the other... Well, a sequel to such a film sounds so lame. Like a sequel to "Titanic."

 http://art-sluza.info/2010/04/12/mihalkov2010/
There's a good interview of Mikhalkov where he explains why he decided to make this movie. My opinion has changed and now I wanna watch "Утомлённые-2"ю

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## E-learner

> What about our cartoons?? Has anyone discussed it here?

 They definitely have. But there is nothing to prevent you from starting it all over again.  ::

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## E-learner

And while I'm here. 
I want to warn you against watching "The Hills Have Eyes" (2006 one, I haven't seen the original). It's a horror movie with more than plenty of gore, with a ridiculous premise, it's unbelievably clichéd, to the point of looking like a parody, but without even a modicum of humor. It's pathetic.
What horrified me about this movie was not the movie itself (about which I was merely disgusted), but an overwhelming abundance of ecstatic reviews on the IMDb site. I mean, I've seen a lot of movies, horror movies included, I didn't like, but I could always understand why some people might like them, but those people from the site are beyond my comprehension. I hate to think that there are so many almost accomplished maniacs around.
Sorry, if somebody here have seen and liked it.  ::

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## gRomoZeka

> I want to warn you against watching "The Hills Have Eyes" (2006 one, I haven't seen the original).

 I've seen both, but the only reason I remember that I watched them at all is a silly title, and a comment I've read at my local forum: _I hope that toilet bowls don't have eyes, or it would be really awkward"_.  ::  It was more memorable than the film itself.  
If I remember correctly it's one of those movies that deal with maniacal mutant families in deserts? Honestly I can't imagine how someone can like one better than the others, they are all the same. But you got me interested, *E-learner*. I'll probably watch it again when I'm in a masochistic mood, to see what's all the fuss is about.  ::

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## starrysky

> There's a good interview of Mikhalkov where he explains why he decided to make this movie. My opinion has changed and now I wanna watch "Утомлённые-2"ю

 Yeah... That's why I'm in two minds about it. It might be worth watching after all. But it is still a bit ridiculous. I thought it was all quite unambiguous at the end of the first film that Mitya committed suicide and Kotov was shot. Of course, some people survived the "Great Purge" of 1937 like Marshal Rokossovsky but still... it's ridiculous. 
Going slightly offtopic but poor Rokossovky.   ::  Read an interview with some veterans a few days ago in a local paper -- soldiers really loved him.     

> Rokossovsky held senior commands until 1937, when he became caught up in Joseph Stalin's Great Purge and accused of "connections with foreign intelligence". His association with the cutting edge methods of Marshal Tukhachevsky may have been the real cause of his conflict with more traditional officers such as Semyon Budenny who still favored cavalry tactics, and whose policy disagreements with Tukhachesvky triggered the Great Purge of the Red Army that resulted in the execution of the latter, among many others. Rokossovsky, however, survived. 
> After interrogations that included torture resulting in nine missing teeth, three cracked ribs, the removal of his fingernails, and three mock shooting ceremonies, he was sent to the Kresty Prison in Leningrad, where he remained until March 1940, when he was released by Lev Gurshman. Some suggest he was released because there was a need for experienced officers to staff the large army needed for a pre-emptive Soviet strike against Germany,[3] while others will note that full mobilization could also serve a defensive purpose, and was likely in the context of general war mobilization by the other European powers, regardless of intent.

  

> But.. What about our cartoons?? Has anyone discussed it here?.. I love them so much.. There so many outstanding cartoons! Pieces of art)))

 I agree. I luuuurve cartoons too... Ours, Disney classics... Can't help having this deep emotional connection to them. And I don't think it's just nostalgia -- lots of work and talent went into making them. If I remember correctly there are links somewhere at the beginning of this thread for the Karlsson cartoons with subs...    *Winnie-the-Pooh*    *Трое из Простоквашино/Troye iz Prostokvashino/Three from Buttermilk Village*   *Малыш и Карлсон/Malysh and Karlsson/Little Boy and Karlsson*   *Карлсон вернулся/Karlsson Vernulsya/Karlsson Returns*  
I just loooove Freken Bok! She is a hilarious "домомучительница". Brilliantly voiced by Faina Ranevskaya.       
A funny caricature on Valeria Novodvorskaya as Freken Bok http://s49.radikal.ru/i124/0908/78/fcacb39af63c.jpg  *Муми-тролль: Шляпа волшебника/Mumi-troll (Moomin-Troll): Shlyapa volshebnika/Magician's Hat*  
That one is a series of three cartoons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shlyapa_Volshebnika       *Большой Ух* -- love that one! "Мы медузы, мы медузы... Мы похожи на арбузы"      *Русалочка/The Little mermaid*   *Домовенок Кузя*  -- also a great cartoon, with a lot of funny quotes. The Baba-Yaga character is marvellous.  quotes in wikipedia1 quotes in wikipedia2      *Дядюшка Ау*   
OK, I think that's about enough pics... I do get carried away sometimes. But there are A LOT of great cartoons. *sigh*   ::

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## E-learner

> it's one of those movies that deal with maniacal mutant families in deserts? Honestly I can't imagine how someone can like one better than the others, they are all the same.

 Well, I'm afraid (or should I say "glad"?  ::  ) that I haven't seen many of that particular kind, as I try to stay away from them. And I didn't expect this one to be like that. 
I fell into a psychological trap, you see. I was watching "Outnumbered", about which I read recently on this forum and which turned out to be the best comedy I've seen for years, and there was this line there, said by a father to his little daughter: "You watched _The Hills Have Eyes_ and didn't sleep for six months. And when we drove to Bristol you said the Cotswolds stared at you." And somehow I got the impression that this should be something mysterious, spooky and possibly even fun for an adult to watch.   ::     

> Honestly I can't imagine how someone can like one better than the others, they are all the same.

 The more graphic is smashing or biting off of heads, burning people alive and the like -- the better, I suppose. 
The horror movie I really enjoyed was "Tremors". The sequels were not bad too. But of course it was more fun than horror.

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## alexB

> The horror movie I really enjoyed was "Tremors". The sequels were not bad too. But of course it was more fun than horror.

 You mean the one about the earthworms that can crawl underground with speeds way over the official overground limit?)))

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## E-learner

> You mean the one about the earthworms that can crawl underground with speeds way over the official overground limit?)))

 Yeah, them graboids! Terrifying creatures, weren't they?   ::  
My favorite scene from the movie -- "graboid breaking into the wrong rec room": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y_6H617 ... re=related

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## Hanna

On Starrysky's Bollywood post, I just have to say: 
Agree that it is exotic and escapist in the extreme... 
The costumes and music are very funky!!  
I probably would like Bollywood films if not for the fact that I get such massive overdose of all things Indian at work (work with outsourcers) 
There is such a big cultural gap at times, and it can be REALLY hard and to handle when you are stressed and under pressure... 
Northern European + Indian = culture clash....   ::   
I handle it, but once I get home I don't even want to think of India, let a lone watch a film from there...  
How terribly politically incorrect, huh?    ::   :: 
I like my British-Indian colleagues though, but that's a bit different.

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## Hanna

> Originally Posted by silicium  What about our cartoons?? Has anyone discussed it here?   They definitely have. But there is nothing to prevent you from starting it all over again.

 Doesn't the word "cartoon" mean drawn figures (animations?) like Donald Duck etc? Or does the word simply refer to childrens' TV programs?  
Anyway; I remember watching lots of different Russian animated films on TV as a kid and they were great; cute figures and nice plots. Can't remember a single title, unfortunately. But they were a bit like films; long with a plot. Good quality. 
I thought this comical one was Russian..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqbbf7EvvXA0 (Professor Balthazar) but I checked it on Youtube and actually, it was Yugoslavian. Absolute cult though; did anyone else watch it when they grew up? 
Dr Snuggles - which was German or Dutch, I think; very funky series for kids... another cult...  
And Barbapappas!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax8nJqh2P2o

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## starrysky

> There is such a big cultural gap at times, and it can be REALLY hard and to handle when you are stressed and under pressure... 
> Northern European + Indian = culture clash....

 This is rather interesting, actually. I'd like to know the details about that cultural gap, since I'm interested in the Indian culture but it's not the place to discuss it... I've so far been irritated only by the treatment of women, widows especially, but I think the situation improved a lot in the last decades.    

> Doesn't the word "cartoon" mean drawn figures (animations?) like Donald Duck etc?

 I'm not really sure about how to use this word. As I understand it, the first meaning is what we call "карикатура/caricature" (i.e., a funny picture in a newspaper). But it can also mean "animated film." I sort of settled for calling Disney full-length animation, like "Beauty and the Beast", "animated film" and using "cartoon" for short stuff. But perhaps it's better to just say "animated film."   
From the wiki: 
Cartoon--  

> The modern meaning refers to both humorous illustrations in print and animated films.

 P.S. The one thing I *do* hold against Indians is that two of my favourite films -- Asoka and Dil Se -- were flops in India. I just can't get it, they're so beautiful. But not in traditional, rainbow-garish Bollywood style. It's poetry expressed through visuals (I'm not even into poetry). If that makes sense. No, actually, I can understand about Dil Se, as I didn't love it at first sight either -- it was so different and unexpected. I'm reading a thread on Dil Se right now on another forum... And I totally don't know if this will be of use to anyone but here's   the best post on Dil Se I ever read (the first one)  a site about the film explaining how it's about the 7 shades of love

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## Hanna

What language(s) do they speak in these films?  
The English accent of people from India is very distinct and even those who speak English as a second "native" language make a LOT of serious grammatical errors when they speak.   
The English that they speak is almost a separate "dialect" of English -- it has SO many speakers and is actually used in India, between many Indians - I was surprised to learn that. That accent is very hard to understand at first. Over the last few years I have got used to it.   
Sometimes after hours of meetings with people who speak like this, I almost end up using some typically "Indian" grammar/expressions myself!  
I know that my Indian colleagues speak a complicated mix of languages between them (Hindi, Gujurati, Punjabi etc), depending on which part of the country they come from. I can not tell the difference between these languages. Have no idea what language the Bollywood films are in.

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## Seraph

Hinglish!  I think that's what they call the mix of HIndi and English expressions.
Distinctly melodious.

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## starrysky

> What language(s) do they speak in these films?

 Bollywood films are in Hindi, I think. Plus, English/Hinglish.  ::  I agree that it's a strange form of English. In terms of accent it seems close to Russian (they have the same [r]. Grr, I can't pronounce it properly, I've got "French" [r]; also the same [h], including the Ukrainian version).   
There's also this South Indian cinema (in Tamil, Telugu, and other languages), which is a whole other story but I don't think I'll ever go to these... I've a feeling they can only be downloaded on the net since no one distributes them in Russia and I just prefer buying dvds. I think at least with Hindi films we are lucky here that they are dubbed.   ::   I usually quite like the way it's done. For example, Vladimir Konkin who played Sharapov in "The Meeting Place Cannot Be Changed" lended his voice to many characters played by Shahrukh Khan and did it quite well, I should say. I read that for some people reading subtitles is just an insurmountable task so apparently some Americans totally rule out foreign films because of this. 
I'm learning Hindi through the songs.  ::  It's a lot of fun because words get repeated. There are so many synonyms for "love" -- pyar, ishq, mohabbat, prem, and they all seem almost complete synonyms, not like "infatuation," "passion," etc. But perhaps it's just my insufficient knowledge. I like the language, somehow it looks really easy.

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## E-learner

> Originally Posted by E-learner        Originally Posted by silicium  What about our cartoons?? Has anyone discussed it here?   They definitely have. But there is nothing to prevent you from starting it all over again.    Doesn't the word "cartoon" mean drawn figures (animations?) like Donald Duck etc?

 Yes, it does. And cartoons were being discussed in this very thread. For example: http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...winnie#p212590

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## rockzmom

starrysky... I love your new sig! my older daughter is a BIG fan of Alice or as she first learned it "Alicia en el Pais de las Maravillas" I think she likes this one the most as when you see Alice in real life, she is a real person and you can speak with her and not some big costume. She has always been afraid of those costume people! Never would go up to them, still won't! 
If you want to hear/watch it in Spanish... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HazDa7923tk part 1/10

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## sperk

"Burnt by the Sun-2 (Утомленные солнцем)" is coming soon.
Influenced by Saving Private Ryan. Going to be much different from the original. 
Rus/ http://www.1tv.ru/news/other/152868
Eng/ http://english.ruvr.ru/2010/04/22/6766592.html

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## BappaBa

> "Burnt by the Sun-2 (Утомленные солнцем)" is coming soon.

 Вчера была премьера.
Михалков получит люл*е*й со всех сторон:
- от либералов просто так, за то, что умеет жить при любой власти;
- от коммунистов за Сталина;
- от историков за СМЕРШ и шрафбаты в 41-м
=)

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## starrysky

> If you want to hear/watch it in Spanish...

 Thanks, rockzmom.   ::     

> Вчера была премьера.

 ВарраВа, tell us at least if you liked it or not?

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## BappaBa

> ВарраВа, tell us at least if you liked it or not?

 Мне, нет. Я нормально отношусь к Михалкову, и помню, что после кучи помоечных фильмов о репрессиях в конце 80-х и начале 90-х, он снял действительно серьезное кино "УС-1", имхо. А здесь какая-то мешанина из всего. Михалков сам говорил, что новый фильм рассчитан на мОлодежь/пОдростоков, к-рые ничего о ВОВ не знают; мне все это _режет глаз_, я все-таки что-то читал... =)
Upd: Да, еще, очень впечатлительным: в фильме матюги, кишки, кости, малька сексу...

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## starrysky

> Мне, нет. Я нормально отношусь к Михалкову, и помню, что после кучи помоечных фильмов о репрессиях в конце 80-х и начале 90-х, он снял действительно серьезное кино "УС-1", имхо. А здесь какая-то мешанина из всего. Михалков сам говорил, что новый фильм рассчитан на мОлодежь/пОдростоков, к-рые ничего о ВОВ не знают; мне все это _режет глаз_, я все-таки что-то читал... =)
> Upd: Да, еще, очень впечатлительным: в фильме матюги, кишки, кости, малька сексу...

 Во, спасибо за отзыв! Значит не пойду смотреть. Я так уже подумывала, что на большом экране мне будет не очень приятно все это лицезреть во всей красе... Когда-то я смотрела и "Спасти рядового Райана" в кино, а щас как-то осторожней стала... Не знаю, не тянет. Может потом посмотрю, когда на двд выйдет.  
Sorry, rockzmom, for the Russian break (I automatically switch to Russian when replying to something in Russian) -- we are just discussing the sequel to "Burnt By The Sun", which ВарраВа at least wasn't much impressed with. And since I rather trust his opinion, I don't think I'm gonna watch it now... Unless someone chips in and says it's absolutely a masterpiece.   
Some of favourite Bolly songs:
"Roshni Se" from "Asoka" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYIItfHdQ6U  
Raat Ka Nasha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcucW...eature=related 
O Re Kanchi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StO9U...eature=related 
From "Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna" (beautifully shot in NY):
Mitwa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTsLz...eature=related 
Tumhi Dekho Naa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFw7o...eature=related 
Lyrics and translation can be found for example at bollywhat.com -- http://bollywhat.com/lyrics/asok_lyr.html (for Asoka)

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## Basil77

> Upd: Да, еще, очень впечатлительным: в фильме матюги,..., малька сексу...

 Это ещё ничего...  

> ...кишки, кости...

 А вот это не люблю, значит точно не пойду смотреть.  ::  Имхо излишняя натуралистичность хороша только в порнофильмах.   ::

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## Hanna

Starrysky might be a Bollywood fan... but I am a sci-fi fan!   ::   
I could hardly believe my ears when I heard that there had been a remake of "V" !!!
Some people might remember it from the mid 1980s? I was vaguely aware that the series existed, but not allowed to watch it, by my parents.. lol. I think it was the only sci-fi series that ran on Swedish TV for the entire 1980s. It holds a special place for me, because of that.  
The new series is along the same line as the original: Large space ships hover over all major cities of the world and the alien "Visitors"  at first seem friendly and nice... but of course, that is not the full truth...  ::   They have a secret agenda (not revealed yet....) and they are not as human as they look   ::  .  
One of the nice things about this, which is unusual for sci-fi, is that several of the interesting roles are filled by women. Both the alien leader and one of the lead resistance fighters are women -- making it a bit more easy to get involved.  
It's not exactly a a serious film, but entertaining if you like sci-fi! Can be downloaded from just about anywhere...   *Original V series*   *New V series*

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## starrysky

I am a bit of a sci-fi fan as well.   ::   Especially like those books/films that deal with space-travel. Though I've only ever read "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (haven't seen the film) and enjoyed it quite a bit because of all the humour, then some Azimov's short stories,  and Larry Niven's "Ringworld Engeneers". And I've seen "Star Wars", of course. The V series looks interesting. I mean, whether it's spacesuits, or corsets and cravats, or colorful saris -- it all works for me.   ::   
The strange thing about Russian cinema at the moment, is that there are no films made on "ordinary" topics. Like simple human feelings. Like "Office Romance". Soviet cinema used to be all about "ordinary people". No, now it must be about war (not in the Soviet tradition but in the modern gory interpretation) or crime or fantasy thrillers (like "Nigth Watch" or "Wolfhound"). That's why I've turned to BBC adaptations of English classics and to Hindi movies. 
My favourites among period dramas are "Pride and Prejudice" (1995) (well, I guess everyone knows about that one...), "North and South" (2004) (with Richard Armitage/Daniela Denby-Ashe), which is a screen adaptation of Elizabeth Gaskell's novel, and "Wives And Daughters" (1999). Wonderful cast, great performances, fantastic music -- love everything about them. "North and South" was HUGE in Great Britain and it made Richard Armitage into the next Colin Firth.   http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/northandsouth/  North and South on imdb  Wives and Daughters on imdb

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## Hanna

> The strange thing about Russian cinema at the moment, is that there are no films made on "ordinary" topics. Like simple human feelings. Like "Office Romance". Soviet cinema used to be all about "ordinary people". No, now it must be about war (not in the Soviet tradition but in the modern gory interpretation) or crime or fantasy thrillers (like "Nigth Watch" or "Wolfhound"). That's why I've turned to BBC adaptations of English classics and to Hindi movies.

 Interesting comment about the direction of Russian cinema.... 
My biggest problem with Russian cinema is finding Russian films with subtitles!  A lot of the modern films and TV that I want to watch, haven't got them; or the available subs are only in languages that I can't understand, like Bulgarian or Polish.  
It's a shame if Russian cinema is losing the good artistic quality from the past, and losing touch with "reality". I guess commercialism means they can't follow any strictly artistic, ideological or other views they might hold anymore.. And can only produce what they are sure will be commercially successful, which means art and content may need to be compromised.  
The reason BBC can make adaptations of these old books etc is that they are supported by the mandatory licence fees that everyone in the UK has to pay. That funds what the BBC does --  plus I think they sell their content on to other countries.  
The licence fee is about £150 (USD 200) per household, per year. If you don't pay it, they send angry letters every month at least... and say they will come and "inspect" whether you have a TV or not.  
In principle most people agree with paying for the BBC because they know they get higher quality content than what they would get with purely commercial TV.  
But it would be smarter to simply assume that everyone has a TV and slam it on the tax bill --- people just get annoyed with all the hassle and grief from the TV licence bill and a lot of people dodge the fee.

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## CoffeeCup

> The reason BBC can make adaptations of these old books etc is that they are supported by *the mandatory licence fees that everyone in the UK has to pay*. That funds what the BBC does -- plus I think they sell their content on to other countries. 
> The licence fee is about £150 (USD 200) per household, per year. If you don't pay it, they send angry letters every month at least... and say *they will come and "inspect" whether you have a TV or not*.

 Does the UK have the fee for air??? People who don't like the BBC and don't watch it have to pay the fee only because their TV *CAN* get the BBC airing signal?

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## Ramil

Утомлённые солнцем 2, рецензия.
(многа букафф) 
Часть 1 
По словам Никиты Сергеевича, его новый фильм «Утомлённые солнцем 2» снимался «в противовес» фильму Спилберга «Спасение рядового Райана». Никита Сергеевич посмотрел американскую поделку в Париже и был серьёзно удивлён: с чего бы это французы уверены в том, что войну выиграли американцы?  
Причина возмущения неясна. Как-то так получилось, что Францию от немецких оккупантов освободили именно американцы. А вот советские войска французы в глаза не видели. При демократии французам и американцам вовсе не обязательно знать о том, кто и как воевал в России. Идеологически верно знать только то, что показывают по демократическому телевидению. А там показывают только про успехи США. Ну да ладно. Берлин всё равно взяли мы.  
Судя по всему, государство надеялось получить качественно снятый фильм патриотической направленности, создание которого и поручили заслуженному мастеру отечественного кино – Никите Сергеевичу Михалкову. Получив по одним сведениям 42 миллиона долларов, по другим все 50, восемь долгих лет Никита Сергеевич снимал эпохалку. Наш, и в первую очередь свой, ответ бездуховному Голливуду. Кстати, у пошлого голливудского блокбастера бюджет ненамного больше, 70 миллионов долларов. На многочисленных презентациях Никита Сергеевич лично рассказывал о невиданных масштабах съёмок горящего моста и бомбёжки дырявыми ложками, неизменно подчёркивая, что «все деньги на экране, ни копейки не украли».  
По ходу съёмок Никита Сергеевич многажды рассказывал о титанической подготовительной работе, предшествовавшей фильму. Дескать, отсмотрены многие километры кинохроники, прочитаны миллионы страниц воспоминаний и документов. Надо понимать, не только им лично, но и творческим коллективом в целом. Подчёркивал, что читали не только общеизвестное, но и ранее недоступное.  
Знаете ли вы, говорил Никита Сергеевич, что немецкую форму задизайнил Хуго Босс? А ведь эта форма составляет 20 процентов боевых успехов вермахта! И монокли у них, говорит, были не просто так — через них было очень удобно смотреть на унтерменшей. К сожалению, Никита Сергеевич ничего не сказал о том, кто задизайнил советскую военную форму, в которой наши солдаты взяли Берлин и разгромили нацистов. Хотя совковая форма, безусловно, была навязана Сталиным и только мешала.  
Не совсем ясно, зачем для постановки художественного фильма углубляться в документы? Всем интересующимся давно очевидно, что этого не следует делать даже при съёмках документальных фильмов. Вот, к примеру, Алексей Пивоваров с канала НТВ старательно изучил документы, в том числе — доселе невиданные, а потом снял сугубо документальный фильм про Ржев, переврав и оплевав всё, что сумел.  
Зачем говорить о какой-то документальности применительно к художественному фильму? Конечно, чтобы донести до зрителя Правду. Граждане России обожают фильмы исторического плана о родной стране. И если в рекламе говорится о том, что фильм имеет документальную основу — приток зрителя обеспечен. Достаточно вспомнить рекламные лозунги недавних шедевров «Сволочи» и «9 рота». Заявив, что «фильм основан на реальных событиях», автор немедленно вызывает у зрителей доверие. Ну а потом, само собой, может снимать что угодно – как и положено творцу. А когда начнут ловить на лжи – рассказывать, что и не собирался делать ничего «исторического», а про реальные события говорил просто так. Именно это говорили и создатели «Сволочей», и создатели «9 роты». Именно это будет говорить после премьеры Никита Михалков.  
И вот 17 апреля 2010 года состоялась долгожданная премьера – сразу в тридцати городах. В Москве, к сожалению, не на Красной площади, как планировали изначально, а всего лишь во Дворце съездов. Будем откровенны: увиденное потрясло многих. Конечно, определенные подозрения внушал уже постер, как будто выбранный на конкурсе скандальных фотожаб, но реального размаха эпического полотна невозможно представить даже по нему. Учитывая резко отрицательное отношение отечественного зрителя к отечественным же фильмам, вряд ли кто-то пойдёт в кино. Поэтому кратко излагаю сюжет. Сделать это непросто, ибо воспроизвести лихие монтажные решения не способен.  
Тем, кто не видел первой серии, кратко поясняю: главного героя фильма, комдива Котова, в первой серии расстреляли, а главный злодей самоликвидировался. Во второй серии они чудесным образом оживают, и с этого мощного сюжетного хода начинается эпопея «Предстояние».  
Итак, в гости к расстрелянному в прошлой серии главному герою приезжает лично Сталин, в компании с Берией, Буденным и Ворошиловым. Сталин с нечистой, мерзкой кожей, отвратительно рябой — первое подтверждение сугубой документальности. Желание глумиться над внешним обликом — оно показательно. Гнусный Сталин рассуждает о том, как мама кормила его хлебом с маслом, политым вареньем. Остальные персонажи лакейски-угодливо хихикают. Особенно талантливо это делает жена персонажа Михалкова — ажно привзвизгивает и подпрыгивает от восторга. Вот это лакейски-угодливое хихиканье выполнено на крепкую пятёрку — Никита Сергеевич как представитель древнего дворянского рода знает, как должны вести себя лакеи.  
В кадр заносят торт с шоколадным портретом Сталина. Товарищ Сталин предлагает съесть товарища Сталина и берёт со стола нож. Странно, конечно, что не вынимает финку из сапога, но в ответ на предложение гостя Никита Сергеевич хватает его за затылок и суёт прыщавой нечистой рожей в торт. Надо понимать, таким образом Никита Сергеевич демонстрирует своё отношение к власти, каковую с удовольствием тычет рожей в торт. Судя по данным отношениям, героя Михалкова не зря посадили и очень странно, что не расстреляли. Ибо это тоже вполне в духе понимания психологии лакея, который вчера умело прислуживал, а сегодня над вчерашним хозяином глумится. Увы, макание Сталина рожей в торт оказывается сном и персонаж Михалкова с воем просыпается в лагере. Особую пикантность данной сцене придаёт наличие трёх сталинских премий у отца создателя этого замечательного эпизода.  
Итак, ткнув Сталина рожей в торт, отважный комдив Котов внезапно просыпается в лагере. Повествование в фильме постоянно перескакивает из довоенного прошлого в военный сорок третий, из сорок третьего – в сорок первый, и так без конца. После примерно пятого прыжка во времени это начинает раздражать, ибо сюжет и так нескладный, а тут ещё такое.  
Кстати, из фильма неясно, за что же этот замечательный человек сидит? Военный, генерал – за что? Может, как участник заговора Тухачевского? Может, хотел Родину немцам продать, да не успел? Неясно.  
В лагерь прикатывает НКВД, руководитель которого объявляет подъём и сортирует заключённых: уголовников — на плац, политических — в сарай лесопилки. Сообщает Котову, что ему политическую статью заменили на уголовную. Сообщает всем, что началась война и заключённые будут этапированы пешим ходом. После чего отдаёт команду расстрелять политических внутри лесопилки из пулемётов. Поражает продуманность действий кровавых упырей: лагерь расположен не на Колыме, а возле западной границы, конвой не боится нападения толпы заключённых, руководители конвоя ведут себя как конченые идиоты — сплошь яркие проявления историчности и документальности. Умный среди этого сброда, понятно, только сам Михалков. Умного комдива Котова умело оттеняет сельский дебил-уголовник в исполнении актёра Дмитрия Дюжева.

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## Ramil

Часть 2 
И тут на лагерь налетают немецкие самолёты. Ещё один точный исторический штрих: нацистам было не до блицкрига, они не бомбили аэродромы и колонны транспорта, они уничтожали советских заключённых. Не знаю, что за бомбы они бросали, но только убили всех без остатка. Спаслись только Михалков и руководимый им Дюжев — паркур-style.  
Данная сцена, очевидно, с точки зрения режиссёра символизирует Советский Союз на момент начала войны: палачи и жертвы, уголовники и придурки, причём придурки в основном почему-то нерусские. Впрочем, нормальных людей в фильме практически нет. Даже пионеры оказываются детьми врагов народа или стукачами, пионервожатые — братьями врагов народа или – о ужас!!! – сотрудниками НКВД. Особняком от тупого быдла представлена семья Котова-Михалкова в полном составе, но об этом чуть ниже.  
Никита Сергеевич рассказывал о том, что в его новом фильме даже в минутных эпизодах снимались только великие актёры. Например, задают вопрос уголовному авторитету в исполнении Валентина Гафта – а что это за статья такая? Карикатурный Гафт умело выпучивает глаза, листает перед собой воображаемый кодекс, немного тупит, а потом рассказывает – про что статья. Исключительно правдивое и характерное поведение для уголовника, который лет двадцать ничем кроме обсуждения статей с соседями по нарам не занимался и знает статьи УК лучше любого адвоката. Мастер эпизода!  
Тут надо остановиться на актёрской игре в целом. Качественную актёрскую игру в фильме демонстрируют трое: Меньшиков, Миронов и Маковецкий. Все остальные с разной степенью успешности имитируют Никиту Сергеевича: неразборчиво бормочут, взвизгивают, подвывают, таращат глаза, хихикают. Смотреть на это, мягко говоря, странно.  
Далее включается «сюжет из будущего», где два упыря – Сталин и Берия, безжалостно допрашивают сотрудника НКВД Меньшикова. Нестриженый до гнусной патлатости Меньшиков поражает интеллектом и выдержкой ничуть не меньше идиотов из НКВД в лагере. Сразу видно, аристократ. Сталин корчит страшные рожи, жутко зыркает исподлобья и внешним обликом больше всего напоминает Носферату из фильма режиссёра Мурнау. Ну, только что не ездит по кабинету как Гэри Олдмэн в роли Дракулы, а так похож неотличимо. Именно так, надо понимать, по мнению режиссёра выглядят руководители, именно этим занимаются в рабочее время.  
Товарищ полковник мертвеет от ужаса, постоянно вскакивает по стойке смирно, смотрит перед собой и ведёт себя на допросе как советский интеллигент. Каковым, судя по фразам «Как я должен отвечать: как чекист или как человек?», при таком звании и является. Это, надо понимать, правда характера. Упырь Сталин даёт команду аристократичному Меньшикову разыскать комдива Котова.  
Меньшиков едет в пионерский лагерь "имени Павлика Морозова", где расхаживает в чёрном плаще и в чёрных сапожищах чисто Дарт Вейдер – только что имперский марш не играет да не пыхтит страшно. А в пионерлагере тупые дети совков отрекаются от своих родителей — врагов народа и пишут друг на друга доносы. Не отрекается только репрессированная дочка репрессированного Михалкова, которая переехала из лагеря для членов семьи изменников Родины в пионерский лагерь и трудится там пионервожатой. Это особенно яркий пример документалистики происходящего — вся страна в лагерях, но особо толковые дети врагов народа руководят детским коммунистическим движением. Конечно, дочка не поддаётся на уговоры упырей-большевиков. И там, где гордая девочка только плачет, герой актёра Панина буквально обоссывается от ужаса.  
Это, кстати, весьма показательно. Дочка в фильме не хочет отрекаться от папы. Мало ли, что власти не нравится мой папа? Ведь он мой папа, я не буду от него отрекаться. Потому что так нельзя. И в то же время нам всем сегодня предлагают отречься от наших отцов и дедов. Несмотря на то, что они наши отцы и деды. Натуральная шизофрения.  
Снова возвращаемся в 1941 и видим отступление войск и бегущих граждан от наступающих немцев. На мосту какой-то очевидно ненормальный замполит пытается остановить отступление, под мостом бездушные сапёры закладывают заряды. Офицер, пытающийся остановить бегство войск, показан полным идиотом – толковые солдаты немедленно дают ему по морде и скидывают с моста. Это ж надо такое удумать — требовать от людей сражаться! Мордатые солдаты-дезертиры, оседлав грузовичок, орут вылезшему из воды офицеру: да ты чё говоришь такое, ты немцев видел?! И убивают офицера, чтобы не мешал бежать дальше. Это тоже свидетельство документальности: идиотские требования выполнять воинский долг и животный инстинкт сохранить свою шкуру.  
Злые сапёры — тоже предельно тупые, потому что начальник русский, а подчинённый нерусский (сидит под мостом и смотрит под юбки бегущим русским бабам). Начальник перекрывает движение по мосту, в споре с отступающими нечаянно машет флажком, а тупая чурка тут же подрывает мост с людьми. На берег выезжают немецкие танки с мега-штандартами, установленными на танках как паруса. Чисто Warhammer. Офицер Мерзликин тут же бросает грузовик с ранеными и прыгает в воду. Следом за ним бросается в реку офицер-сапёр. Вдвоём они присоединяются к Михалкову и Дюжеву, проплывающим мимо на бревне.  
Кстати, Котов снабжен железной рукой со встроенным в железный палец секретным ножом — чисто терминатор. А оперчасть в лагере, значит, не в курсе, что заключённый с холодным оружием бегает. Вот она, правда жизни.  
Далее тёплая компания оказывается, как нетрудно догадаться, в штрафбате, которых в сорок первом не было (см. Историческая правда). Штрафбат сидит в чистом поле в траншее. Не в ячейках, как тогда было принято, а в траншее. Ни слева, ни справа никого нет. Оружия в штрафбате тоже нет – очевидно, так эффективнее всего держится оборона на ответственном участке. Поперёк окопа стоит неизвестно откуда взявшаяся пушка ЗиС-3. Это сейчас президента Польши Качиньского можно отвезти на кладбище на лафете пушки Завода имени Сталина. А в 1941 таких пушек ещё не было.  
Руководит штрафным сбродом актёр Миронов, отчаянно хамящий личному составу, сморкающийся в ладонь и умело вытирающий сопли об шинели несогласных. Под руководством этого военного личный состав окружает окоп спинками от кроватей – очевидно, против танков. Судя по всему, штрафбат закрывает направление особо страшного удара, ибо ни оружия у них нет, ни других подразделений с флангов.  
На усиление штрафбата прибывают кремлёвские курсанты – при полном параде, с оружием. Бывалый военный Миронов в присутствии личного состава немедленно обливает помоями капитана, командира курсантов. Хамство в адрес старшего по званию вызвало одобрительный смех в зале. Кто ж не обрадуется, когда командира публично унизили? Правда, в советских уставах было прописано, что даже сержанта нельзя отчитывать при солдатах. Но тут ведь офицеры, да и зритель откликается живо.  
Курсанты запрыгивают в окоп, где народ уже как шпроты в банке – очевидно, чтобы при попадании снаряда или гранаты за раз убивало побольше. Поперёк окопа – пушка, чтобы стреляющие по ней танки тоже убивали побольше. Каждый занимается своим делом: кремлёвские курсанты из числа детей расстрелянных мулл молятся аллаху, другие мечутся по окопам, третьи зачарованно слушают байки Котова.  
Танки, само собой, приезжают с другой стороны – окоп вырыли не туда. Навстречу танкам выбегает курсант – он решил, что это советские танки. Из люка одного из танков вылезает немец, бросает грузину шоколадку с Гитлером на обёртке, и жестами просит отойти. Глупый курсант пытается остановить фашистский танк, тыча в него штыком. Штык застревает, курсант падает под танк, курсанта размазывает по земле гусеницей. Начинается бой – адская стрельба в тумане и дыму. Пушка метким выстрелом подбивает танк, другой танк метким выстрелом подбивает пушку. Вместе с пушкой уничтожено столпившееся вокруг пушки командование. Немецкие танки носятся над окопом, пропустив окоп между гусениц и ведя пулемётный огонь по бестолковым русским. Никита Сергеевич мечется по позиции чисто ниндзя, работая по немцам лопатой и пистолетом – что тут скажешь, генерал. Только танком и смогли его угомонить. Через пару минут после начала боя всё застилает дым, ничего не видно – «Рядовой Райан» отдыхает. Отчётливо видно – бюджет потрачен не зря.  
Далее показывают поле боя: из-за куч трупов не видно земли, кругом горят танки. Только что не было даже винтовок, не говоря про гранаты, а тут вдруг подбитые танки. Возле пушки подбирает вывалившиеся кишки Миронов. Тяжело раненный командир сокрушается по поводу того, что мальчиков призывного возраста посылают на убой, проклинает Сталина и собравшихся в Кремле идиотов. На премьере в Кремлёвском дворце это прозвучало крайне актуально. Что характерно, сострадания не вызвал ни один персонаж.  
На втором часу просмотра наступило лёгкое отупение от увлекательности происходящего. Но расслабляться было рано — впереди ещё два часа исторической правды. На экране какой-то порт, где полным ходом идёт эвакуация: раненых и детей грузят на баржу. Тяжёлых тут же относят в трюм (очевидно, там воздух лучше), трюм наглухо закрывают железными люками. Детей сопровождает дочка главного героя, Надя Котова. Рядом на небольшой пароходик грузят партийный архив и барахло некой блатной дамы, вперемешку с гипсовыми бюстами Сталина.  
В открытом море к барже подлетают немецкие самолеты. Компьютерные модели самолётов сделаны неважно, в массе компьютерных игр сделано лучше. Фашистские лётчики, только что умело и безжалостно уничтожавшие беженцев и заключённых, внезапно вспоминают про какую-то конвенцию. Очевидно, ту самую, в строгом соответствии с которой сжигали людей вместе с деревнями и миллионами уничтожали в концлагерях.  
Конвенция – дело серьёзное, но один из стрелков решает в шутку на баржу насрать, и предлагает пилоту спикировать. Это интересный момент: ведь пилот обычно офицер, а стрелок – солдат. Но уже открывается «фонарь», изготовившийся к дефекации стрелок высовывает за борт самолёта голую жопу.

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## Ramil

Часть 3 
Невольно возникает вопрос: кто-нибудь из создателей фильма пробовал посрать за борт самолёта, летящего со скоростью хотя бы 400 километров в час? Ну или хотя бы плюнуть в окно машины, идущей 100 километров в час? Представляют ли создатели, что на скорости 400 километров в час произойдёт с говном, как его размажет и куда оно улетит? Жаль, режиссёр нам этого не показал – думаю, ветеранам было бы интересно.  
Естественно, на советском корабле царит бардак, не все тупые совки сдали оружие, некий раненый достаёт ракетницу и метко убивает немца, проносящегося над баржей с голой жопой. Пилот впадает в ярость и на бреющем сносит капитану баржи башку колесом. Командир немецкого звена, поджидающего когда солдат-стрелок просрётся на баржу, внезапно принимает решение: теперь мы всех их должны уничтожить! И приказывает потопить судно. Несчастные фашисты просто вынуждены проявить необходимую жестокость из-за дикой выходки советских варваров. Пулемётные очереди по раненым и детям, бомбы на палубу, баржа пополам, в запертом трюме бьются тонущие раненые. В сцене утопления баржи режиссёр Михалков ловко даёт достойный ответ не только Спилбергу, но и Камерону с его дурацким блокбастером «Титаник».  
В живых остаются только дочь Котова и актёр Гармаш. Оба барахтаются в воде возле морской мины, ухватившись за «рога». Актёр Гармаш, по фильму лишившийся ног солдат, сообщает пионервожатой: я, говорит, священник! А давай-ка я тебя покрещу! Поступок, мягко говоря, странный, ибо крещение – акт осознанный, к нему надо серьёзно готовиться и уж как минимум требуется верить в бога. Но Гармашу на это плевать – он по-быстрому крестит Надю, суёт ей под нос свой крест – целуй! Ошарашенная натиском девушка целует крест, в зале раздаются жидкие, тут же затухшие аплодисменты.  
После крещения удача героини резко возрастает: бог рушит в море и топит немецкий самолёт, который намеревался цинично добить героиню. Польза от крещения налицо! К сожалению, ничего не сказано о том, был ли немецкий пилот христианином? Может, у него папа был пастором? Это придало бы сцене ещё больше пикантности.  
Пока Надя после стремительного крещения приходила в себя, священник Гармаш уплыл в чистое море, в строгом соответствии с христианскими заповедями покончив с собой. Многие думают, что самоубийство – тяжкий грех, полное отрицание воли божьей. Но Гармашу виднее. Вдалеке мимо девушки Нади проплывает пароходик с партархивом, и не замечает ни её, ни мину. А немецкая мина вывозит её на берег – надо думать, по воле божьей, ведь Надя теперь крещёная. Девушка Надя говорит немецкой мине: спасибо тебе, мина! Спасла ты меня! Крепко целует мину и вылезает на берег. А немецкая мина уплывает в море, где немедленно взрывает пароходик с коммунистическим партархивом, попутно уничтожая нехристей-матросов.  
Тема религии раскрыта великолепно. Вера персонажей выражается в пылкой зачитке самодельных молитв и нечеловеческом везении уверовавших, которое почему-то обязательно приносит смерть всему живому вокруг. Оказался Котов в лагере — всех заключённых и охрану убивают. Приплыл к мосту — мост взрывают вместе с людьми, самолёты и танки расстреливают колонну беженцев. Живёт его дочь в пионерлагере — все дети и персонал гибнут на барже, она спасается. Зашла в деревню — убивают случайно забредших в эту деревню немцев, а всех жителей, включая детей, сжигают в сарае. Выживают только те, кто согласен слепо служить главному герою Котову. Никакой помощи ближним, вроде советов по обороне от опытного генерала, ни единой попытки спасти из воды хотя бы одного ребенка, Котов с семейством не предпринимают.  
У бывшего комдива Котова в фильме две задачи: радоваться нападению фашистов на Родину (он так и говорит: война – наше единственное спасение) и отчаянно дурковать, радуясь очередному «спасению». Но в христианской мифологии явления подобного рода не есть признак вмешательства божественной силы или подвигов истинно верующего. Скорее наоборот – это явные признаки деятельности конкурирующей организации, чей рекламный слоган звучит так: я часть той силы, что вечно хочет зла и вечно совершает благо. И никакие иконы, чудесным образом сияющие в разнесённой бомбой церкви, мёртвых не оживят.  
Правильный пример верующего продемонстрирован как раз в фильме «Спасение рядового Райана», где истово молящийся снайпер не забывает валить без промаха фашистов. И гибнет в бою не завывая молитвы, а спасая войсковых товарищей.  
Не удивлюсь, если во второй части нам покажут известный сюжет о том, как служители культа забрались в самолёт и облетели Москву, высунув в открытую дверь икону. Почему, собственно, войска Гитлера и не смогли нашу Москву взять. А вот Гитлер был тупой, он не догадался облететь Берлин, высунув икону в дверь. Потому-то мы Берлин и взяли. А героизм и отвага наших бойцов не при чём.  
Далее через деревню проходит немецкая колонна. Трое немецких велосипедистов остаются набрать воды. Один солдат изымает у местных цыган лошадь с повозкой – для немецких военных нужд. Цыгане, конечно, тут же принимаются бренчать на гитарах, петь, плясать и скакать, надеясь задобрить европейца. Немцу это не нравится и он расстреливает назойливых цыган из автомата, технично добивая раненых. Самый просвещённый европеец (в очках) не выдерживает такого и в истерике мчится на велике прочь. Хозяйственный фашист решает прогуляться по деревне. Третий член команды не знает, за кем бежать. В немецкой армии, нагнувшей всю Европу, царят дисциплина и боевая выучка.  
Тут в деревню непонятно откуда телепортируется крещёная Надя. Её замечает и за ней крадётся жрущий наши яблоки фашист. Надя в сарай – он шасть за ней. И тишина. В поисках товарища в сарай заходит второй фашист – и снова тишина. Тут возвращается впечатлительный очкарик и предлагает не ссориться из-за каких-то цыган. Однако уже поздно, войсковые товарищи жестоко заколоты вилами. Европеец в ужасе бежит за подмогой. Что характерно, немцы не делают в фильме ничего плохого. Всё плохое от немцев – только в ответ на некорректные действия тупых совков.  
Выясняется, что Наде помогла некая барышня, до этого изнасилованная фашистами. Барышня здраво предлагает Наде бежать, но той интересно посмотреть, что фашисты сотворят с деревенскими, которых уже сгоняют к сараю? Когда становится ясно, что в наказание за двух убитых солдат сейчас порешат всю деревню, Надя рвётся «помочь». Спасительница объясняет, что деревенских, включая детей и женщин, немцы сожгут за дело, потому что они не защитили её от насильников и не открывали Наде, когда она стучалась в ставни. Далее барышня пояснила, что раз они с Надей крещёные, то бог хочет их спасти, а остальных, стало быть, сжечь, потому что они нехристи и так надо. Истерики, рыдания и вопли в духе легендарной русской актёрской школы прилагаются.  
Интересны два заключительных эпизода мега-картины. В первом матёрый штрафбатовец Котов бежит по полю за упущенным «языком», а тот прячется от него в церкви. Котов тоже забегает в церковь и случайно находит сумку с фамилией дочери. Тут же забыв про немца, садится разбирать сумку и обнюхивать содержимое. Как с такими боевыми навыками удалось пережить гражданскую и дотянуть до сорок третьего — загадка. От коварного немца с костылём в руках Котова спасает не то бог, не то люфтваффе, экипаж которого отчаянно выпихивает из самолёта застрявшую авиабомбу аккурат над церковью. Бомба килограмм на 250 пробивает купол и чудесным образом повисает на люстре, а немец и Котов спасаются бегством. «Винсент, это было чудо!» Бомба взрывается, а на развалинах церкви сияет неповреждённая бомбой икона. На этой сцене не хлопали даже присутствовавшие на сеансе священнослужители. Восторженный пережитым немец учит Котова, что связывать руки пленным надо за спиной и хихикает, когда комдив по-отечески порет его, шалуна такого, ремешком. Что они вытворяли дальше – увы, осталось непонятно.  
В финале показывают санитарку Надю, которая ищет раненых и находит обожжённого танкиста. Внезапно обгоревший танкист говорит Наде: покажи сиськи! В зале раздался радостный смех. Очевидно, по замыслу создателей это трагический момент, но пришедшая молодёжь над этим делом будет ржать повсеместно. Надя соглашается и на лютом морозе обнажает торс. Зритель видит сиськи со спины Нади, восхищённый танкист умирает. Не хватает только залихватской песни Чижа со словами «И молодая не узнает, каков танкиста был конец». Где-то далеко в окопе сидит Михалков. Конец фильма. Дорогие зрители, вас ждёт вторая часть – «Цитадель». Там, наверно, кроме «покажи сиськи» будет и «выпей йаду», и «убей себя ап стену».  
По итогам ответ «Рядовому Райану» не получился. Не получился даже ответ отдельным сценам из фильма Спилберга, вроде эпической высадки на Омаха-бич. Ни 50 миллионов долларов бюджета, ни восьми лет работы над фильмом не хватило. Получилась отечественная версия «Бесславных ублюдков». Как и фильм Тарантино, фильм Михалкова не имеет никакого отношения к реальным событиям. Как и у Тарантино, все персонажи ведут себя и разговаривают как режиссёр, он же автор сценария. Только у Тарантино есть внятный сюжет, нормальный монтаж, гениальный Кристофер Вальц и звезда Брэд Питт. В нашем же случае — бессвязный набор короткометражек, бестолковая актёрская игра да никакой сценарий. Кстати, фильм Тарантино дороже ровно на гонорар Питта, на 20 миллионов долларов. Чего-то Квентин в кино не понимает.  
Никита Сергеевич сперва говорил, что кино у него историческое, а потом начал говорить, что кино для молодёжи. Ветераны, говорит, вряд ли поймут, а вот молодёжь будет знать, что такое война. Оно, конечно, интересно, но молодёжь подобное вообще не смотрит – снято плохо, компьютерные эффекты никакие, смонтировано скучно, смотреть неинтересно. О каких сборах может идти речь? Остаётся только рассказывать, что «сборы – это не главное».  
Почему получилось так? Наверно, потому, что у фильма не было толкового продюсера, который смотрит строгим глазом и руководит созданием. В результате Никита Сергеевич снял то, что хотел, и так, как хотел. Он так видит. Что получилось – можно сходить посмотреть.  
Какие задачи стояли перед данным фильмом? Судя по всему, задача была ровно одна: десакрализация памяти о Великой Отечественной войне. Вы считаете, что ваши предки одержали великую победу? Да нет же, поглядите – они метались как скоты, они боялись всего на свете, дрожа от ужаса в грязи и в говне. Великая война, в которой победила наша некогда могучая держава? О чём вы – просто бог так захотел, и те, кто молился, победили, а остальных убил НКВД. Командование? Да не было никакого командования – вы же видите, в фильме нет даже ни одного замполита. Говно ваша война, и предки ваши – говно.  
Нуждается ли наша страна в таком кино про войну? При нынешнем руководстве – безусловно, именно в таком и нуждается. Министерство Правды прилагает чудовищные усилия и тратит гигантские деньги на поливание нашей истории дерьмом. Могут ли наши режиссёры снимать хорошее кино? Давно уже очевидно, что не могут. До недавнего времени разве что Никита Михалков в нашем кино вздымался как утёс среди моря вяло плещущегося говна. И вот – финал.  
Если нам нужны хорошие фильмы про войну, надо приглашать режиссёров из-за границы. Например, позвать того же Пола Верхувена. Снимать умеет, берёт недорого. Ну, приглашаем же мы тренеров для футболистов? Так и тут: надо позвать сценаристов, надо позвать режиссёров. Даже актёров можно позвать, западные актёры играют в среднем значительно лучше наших. Поставить задачу, и получится нормальное кино, ибо режиссёры с запада обучены делать то, что у них просят сделать. А не реализовывать свои фантазии за счёт налогоплательщиков. А на такое дешевле пригласить Ллойда Кауфмана из студии Troma, у него трэш получается не хуже.   *И ты спросишь: так смотреть или не смотреть?  
Если ты либеральная гнида, ненавидишь своих предков и считаешь, что немцев завалили трупами – беги бегом, это твой фильм.  
Если же уважаешь своих предков, отдавших жизни за Родину – мой тебе совет, не ходи. *

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## LuxDefensor

мощно задвинул, внушает

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## Ramil

> мощно задвинул, внушает

 [s:1k11zlyg]Если что - текст не мой. Авторство, к сожалению, утеряно. Думаю, несложно найти оригинал.[/s:1k11zlyg] 
Автор Дмитрий Пучков, ака Гоблин. 
Оригинал: http://oper.ru/news/read.php?t=1051606225

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## Basil77

Судя по другим отзывам, которые я читал, и по интервью самого Михалкова с рассказом о том, как снимали фильм, показанному по ТВ, если автор рецензии и сгустил краски, то не сильно. Желание смотреть сею эпопею данное ревью отбило окончательно.

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## BappaBa

http://the-mockturtle.livejournal.com/
Посмотрела Михалкова. "Мама, мы в аду. Мы в аду, мама". 
В процессе просмотра в голове крутились какие-то не то раешники, не то подражания Бродскому:    

> ...Входит Котов. Он томится. Он от голода лоснится. Он на западной границе, в представительстве ГУЛАГА. Кровожадные гэбисты, падкие на извращенья, в политическом хищенье обвинили бедолагу. Им в Сибири не сидится, им к Европе чтоб поближе, чтобы видно было с вышек чуть не Эйфелеву башню. Котов гадов не боится, смело драпает по крышам. Гордый Юнкерс взмыл повыше и спикировал отважно, сокращая населенье. Взрывы. Вопли. Затемненье.  
> Входит Дюжев. Он контужен. По сюжету он не нужен.  
> Входят воины штрафбата. Им оружия не надо, им саперную лопату выдают одну на роту. Командиры-идиоты поредевшие останки шлют на парусные танки непременно в штыковую, чтобы удаль боевую показать проклятым фрицам (тем, культурным, очень стыдно). Дальше ни хрена не видно, видимо, пришлось делиться многотысячным бюджетом - без ущерба для сюжета, всех и так давно убило. Взрывы. Вопли. Очень мило.  
> Входит катер вместе с Надей (сколько Надя папе платит?), что, отметим, очень кстати: Наде хорошо за двадцать, значит, будет раздеваться. Зритель замер в предвкушенье, ожидая искушенья сиськами врага народа. Вот немецкие пилоты переходят на сниженье, открывают бомболюки (входит жопа, крупным планом), и парят над капитаном, провоцируют, подлюги, хоть оно и неудобно. Капитан, взревев утробно, сделал ложное движенье. Взрывы. Вопли. Продолженье.  
> Входит мина. Всем ховаться. Мине хочется взорваться, но плывет, куда деваться: режиссер уж больно строгий. Входит Гармаш. Он безногий. Гармашу неловко тоже. Он с духовностью на роже крестит мину вместе с Надей, и, решив, что с Нади хватит, тонет с явным облегченьем. Окрыленная крещеньем, мина волевым решеньем топит баржу с партактивом. Взрывы. Вопли. Как красиво. 
> Входит Сталин вместе с тортом (шоколадным, вот же гнида). У него рябая морда, Ворошилов и Буденный. У МихАлкова Никиты зубы сводит от обиды, он кипит, прямой и гордый, каннским солнцем утомленный. Он борец в седьмом колене супротив советской власти и ее дурацких премий Ленинского комсомола. Он встает, мятежный гений, и виновнику несчастий, вереща от наслажденья, телом крепок, духом молод, - о, как сладок миг расплаты! - мажет морду шоколадом. Это сказка, очевидно. Взрывы. Вопли. Как обидно. 
> Входят разные актеры и друг друга убивают. Входят глупые саперы и кого-нибудь взрывают. Входят головы и ноги и другие части тела, их дизайнеры умело разбросали вдоль дороги, чтоб никто не думал в зале жрать попкорн, на это глядя. Все идут, куда послали. Дальше всех послали Надю. Входит Митя в роли гада, нестерпимо инфернален. Всех, кто скрыл в анкете брата, расстреляет лично Сталин, а кого не расстреляет – доведет до энуреза. Входит Котов, щеголяя металлическим протезом. В подтверждение названья, солнце всходит и заходит. Входят табором цыгане и немедленно выходят. Бравый вермахт входит с помпой, полный нравственных метаний. Входит ядерная бомба на немецком ероплане. Входят сиськи! На экране суета и мельтешенье. Взрывы. Вопли. Продолженье.

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## LuxDefensor

::  
Это пять!  ::   ::   ::

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## starrysky

> Утомлённые солнцем 2, рецензия.
> (многа букафф)

 Ржачный отзыв. Остатки сомнений по поводу того смотреть или нет почти совсем улетучились...   ::     

> The licence fee is about £150 (USD 200) per household, per year. If you don't pay it, they send angry letters every month at least... and say they will come and "inspect" whether you have a TV or not.

 Ha-ha, this is funny. Or maybe not, really. So this is how they manage to make such good quality stuff...

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## Crocodile

Зачот!   ::  
PS.  

> Если ты либеральная гнида, ненавидишь своих предков и считаешь, что немцев завалили трупами – беги бегом, это твой фильм.

 Входят гниды либеральны. Их и к месту и не к месту приплетают, однозначно. Видно оченно ужасны, и кусаются отменно. Среди ночи вылезают руки их из честных граждан. В патриотов садят яйца, там растут и вылезают, отвратительно гримася. Страхи. Ужас. Кетчуп с мясом.

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## starrysky

Oh God, I saw such a great film yesterday that I can't keep me mouth shut about it.   ::  Even though I'm most likely the only person here interested in Bollywood.   *Chalte Chalte* (starring Shahrukh Khan and Rani Mukherji)     
Yes, it's another Bollywood movie, it has a very cheesy, god-awful beginning (about 10 minutes) but then it becomes a perfect (for me) blend of romance and realism. The first part is really romantic, while in the second is more drama than anything. This film is a bit unusual for Bollywood because it's not a happily-ever-after fairytale, where the film ends with the lovers getting married. Chalte Chalte explores problems that couples face after marriage. What I liked about it was the great chemistry between SRK and Rani, wonderful music and how small, simple, unpretentious, and sweet it was (when compared to more famous, larger-than-life "Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham", "Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna", etc.) Great acting, tight script, wasn't bored for one minute. Was so rooting for the couple to be happy that got really emotional. And the thing is, I really didn't expect this film to touch me quite so much, having read some rather lukewarm reviews. The main complaint some people seem to have with this film is "It's too real life, I get enough of this at home, I watch Bollywood for the escapist and fairy-tale quality of it." Well, I've always been a fan of realism (social, lol). And even as a fan of Harry Potter, it was precisely the realism of emotions portrayed that I've always liked best... So it's exactly my cup of chai, that film is.

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## rockzmom

starrysky... did you watch the film New York? It's not your typical Bollywood movie.  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1328634/  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_(film) 
I started to watch it MONTHS ago and the copy I had was not a great version so I never finished and just never got back to obtaining a better copy... now you are making me want to get back to that one.

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## starrysky

No, I've not seen that one yet though I heard it's supposedly quite good...

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## Hanna

> Does the UK have the fee for air??? People who don't like the BBC and don't watch it have to pay the fee only because their TV *CAN* get the BBC airing signal?

 Yup... We pay... then everyone around the world downloads it off the net..   ::   ::  
I stopped watching TV about a year ago, but I am still liable to pay it. 
If you own a TV you must pay it.  Even though I use mine as a computer monitor and have terrible terrestial reception, so am forced to get cable TV! They don't accept the argument that you don't watch the BBC.  
All of Scandinavia has the same policy; not sure about elsewhere in Europe. Personally I think it's ridiculous - they ought to just slam it on the taxes and assume that everyone has a TV.   *The positive side is:*
It pays for quality content as opposed to commercial junk...
Serious documentaries, historical dramas and other type of content that is not commercially profitable. 
State TV does not need to have commercials which gives a MUCH better viewing experience and protects children and vulnerable people from ads.
But the system is very annoying and there is an element of state TV pushing various agendas, which as a citizen and license payer you may not be interested in paying for..  
The enforcement agency is quite aggressive, they have equipment to check whether people are watching or not.. And all purchases of TVs are reported to them. But still, a lot of people don't pay.  
Here are some typical forms about it:  *
TV licence:*    *Tracking down the license dodgers....*  *
Threatening letters....*   *
Someone wrote to them and said that he explicitly ban the inspectors from his property.*   
The inspectors mostly just catch young people or people who don't know the law though. 
Although they are very aggressive, they have no legal right to enter peoples' houses if you exlpicitly tell them they can't. However, it affects your credit rating if you live somewhere that doesn't have a license. So a lot of people pay to make sure their credit rating isn't affected. 
Someone let them in to the "corridor" while I was living in student flat, at university, in Stockholm. A lot of people had a TV, and opened the door to their room because they had not expected an inspector. The inspectors saw their TVs immediately, without even entering the room, so they got fined something massive and were very upset. I had no license either, but luckily I wasn't home at the time.  *Does Russia / Ukraine have anything like this, or is everything financed by ads?*

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## rockzmom

> Starrysky might be a Bollywood fan... but I am a sci-fi fan!    
> I could hardly believe my ears when I heard that there had been a remake of "V" !!!
> Some people might remember it from the mid 1980s? I was vaguely aware that the series existed, but not allowed to watch it, by my parents.. lol. I think it was the only sci-fi series that ran on Swedish TV for the entire 1980s. It holds a special place for me, because of that.

 johanna & strarrysky... 
I missed your posting about "V"
If you go back in this thread to Sun Oct 11, 2009, I wrote about how Ken Johnson the original creator of V was going to be in Russia!  
Johanna.... Interesting how your mom would not let you watch "V".. and there I was on the set of it!!! 
I watched the first episode of the new series, but have not seen any more of it. Not because I did not like it... just time, health and other issues...

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## starrysky

Urgh, those letters look nasty.    

> Does Russia / Ukraine have anything like this, or is everything financed by ads?

 Hmmm... I think we do pay but indirectly. Since the central channels are supposedly "pro-government," I s'pose they might be getting some money from it. Then, you know this new film by Mikhalkov that everyone is so displeased with -- he was given $50 mlns or something to do it. I think I even read complaints somewhere on the net on that score.

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## Crocodile

> Personally I think it's ridiculous - they ought to just slam it on the taxes and assume that everyone has a TV.

 So, you mean the working guys should pay for everyone having their TVs?

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## Hanna

> Originally Posted by Johanna  Personally I think it's ridiculous - they ought to just slam it on the taxes and assume that everyone has a TV.   So, you mean the working guys should pay for everyone having their TVs?

 Yes; everyone who pays tax.  
I support state TV because it is better than commercial TV. Compare BBC news with Sky...  
And it's free of ads, which is good. State TV broadcast good quality domestic and foreign programming with no ads.  
But to run state TV they need money and there are really only two options in a market economy: 1) Licence fee  2) get the money from taxes.  
I am saying that I think it's better to take it from taxes than the insane license system.

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## CoffeeCup

> So, you mean the working guys should pay for everyone having their TVs?

 Working guys always pay social taxes for everyone having medical care and for incapable and handicapped persons to support their life.
The point is quite different for me. If I pay taxes and these taxes are used for a state TV. I, as a tax payer, can write angry letters if I don't like what I see with this TV (not sure if these letters will have any effect at all, but I have the right to write it). But what I see with license fee looks as the TV channel has no any responsibility for its products because the viewers will pay for it anyway.

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## Crocodile

> Working guys always pay social taxes for everyone having medical care and for incapable and handicapped persons to support their life.

 That's true. So, do we deem the TV ownership as essential as the medical care?   ::     

> If I pay taxes and these taxes are used for a state TV. I, as a tax payer, can write angry letters if I don't like what I see with this TV (not sure if these letters will have any effect at all, but I have the right to write it). But what I see with license fee looks as the TV channel has no any responsibility for its products because the viewers will pay for it anyway.

 I'm pretty sure the angry letters will have no effect in either case. The only way a media could be affected is through another [competing] media. And the state TV is fully controlled by the state officials, so if you don't like the content of the state TV, write angry letters to your regional MP whose office might at least be interested in replying to you.   ::   
PS. Whoa! I can make any thread political, can't I? "The rest is silence."   ::

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## rockzmom

> PS. Whoa! I can make any thread political, can't I? "The rest is silence."

 Yes, Croc.. you are   ::  "The man! A God among men! You rock! You rule..... we worship your amazing brain power and witty skills (actually, I do!)."   ::

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## Crocodile

rockzmom, you got me all blushing. There isn't so much brain power, really.   ::   ::

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## quartz

Finally I found the Movies thread! I was looking for it in "Culture" part of the forum  
I love Soviet movies, but I occassionally need a break from people randomly breaking out into song.   ::   
A movie that doesn't seem to be mentioned and that I just watched the other night -- "Mechanic Gavrilov's Beloved Woman" (Любимая женщина механика Гаврилова) (1981) -- has the great Lyudmila Gurchenko and no random singing! A great little "day-in-the-life-of" movie about a middle-aged woman that is about to get married, but the groom doesn't show up. The only let-down was the finale -- it added some melodrama to the "slice of life" feel. Not sure if there are English subtitles, but if there are and you enjoy slice-of-life dramas, check this movie out.
Directed by Pyotr Todorovsky, whom you might know as the director of "Interdevotchka" (see it, if you haven't yet!!).

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## Hanna

*I saw Sex and the City 2 (the movie).* 
Work offered tickets to the London premiere and I felt I had to go because one particular colleague was incredibly keen for the two of us to go together.   *To sum it up: This film was terrible!*  
It had next to no plot apart from the girls going to the Abu Dhabi.
Most of the film was about**: 
1) How incredibly luxurious everything was in the UAE... (while tons of third world people are working there as domestic servants -- discussed in the film with a very flimsy and arrogant view...) 
2) How "frigid" the people in the UAE are... (apparently you have to cover up just a tiny bit and can not make out in public places -- big deal!!!) 
3) Carrie meets Aidan (old fling) while there and kisses him. Gets bad conscience and calls up "Big" (her husband) and tells him about it. Big gets a bit upset but ends up insisting that Carrie wears a super elegant wedding ring as a "punishment" (previously she had refused to wear a wedding ring).  
That's essentially the whole plot. The stereotypes about the Middle east are just one tiny step from those old films where a European put some shoecream in his face and pretended to be a "negroe".  It was incredibly silly. These women should definitely stay in New York!  
Not even the fashion was that great in my view or maybe I am not fully up to date with the latest fashion.... 
I give the film 2 out of 5.  
The only thing that makes the film worth watching is "Big" who is attractive and cool and played by a good actor.  
If anyone wants to watch it, I suggest they wait and get a pirated copy online; it isn't worth the price of a cinema ticket by far!  _
Incidentally at this premier they were checking all large bags for camcorders, would you believe!!!!_

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## quartz

SatC is so wrong on so many levels. 
Although, I assume this latest installment would have great medicinal value as a soporific.    

> _
> Incidentally at this premier they were checking all large bags for camcorders, would you believe!!!!_

 Oh no, one of my pet peeves -- premier vs. premiere   _Premier_ in the sense of "first, earliest" is an adjective; the noun _premier_ means prime minister  _Premiere_ (noun) means first performance 
I see this use of "premier" in the media more and more and it makes me weep   ::

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## bitpicker

> All of Scandinavia has the same policy; not sure about elsewhere in Europe. Personally I think it's ridiculous - they ought to just slam it on the taxes and assume that everyone has a TV.

 Germany has it as well. There are a first and second channel, as well as various regional third channels, all of which are financed by a fee which you have to pay if you own at least one TV set. Radio stations are paid out of that as well, you only pay for them specifically though if you have no TV. Anyone other than a private household has to pay for each device (radio, TV). I actually once overheard a man from the organization which collects that fee in a computer shop who asked the owner not only to pay the fee for the TV he used to demo console games, but also for each TV-capable graphics card in the shop, even those on the shelves. 
There is discussion of a 'head fee' which is supposed to cover all media use, to a certain extent even copying stuff, but I don't see it succeed. 
Robin

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## Hanna

> Originally Posted by Johanna  All of Scandinavia has the same policy; not sure about elsewhere in Europe. Personally I think it's ridiculous - they ought to just slam it on the taxes and assume that everyone has a TV.   Germany has it as well. There are a first and second channel, as well as various regional third channels, all of which are financed by a fee which you have to pay if you own at least one TV set.

 One more thing on this theme... I am FURIOUS because there was this great archive of recorded films of Swedish films on an ftp server... Basically the owner recorded practically every film that ran on Swedish state TV for about 12 years.  
His project had been that he transferred all of it to digital and shared with Swedish film geeks. The benefit was that some of the films were very rare and they all had hard coded subs in Swedish.  
The server was ordered by country and year and he had a whole section of Russian speaking films, at least one film I would like to watch but which I know has no subs available online.   *His argument was "Me and everyone else who watches these films were license payers at the time when they ran on TV, therefore it was legal to record them and share them with "friends" via invitation!* 
The site had no glossy interface just ftp archive and he made no money from it and didn't even ask for donations.  
But he had shared some material that was copyrighted, and the copyright holders did not agree with his view on the licensing covering for the viewing cost. *The police raided his house and took his servers.*  
Not only is this a TERRIBLE thing to happen to a nice public spirited man who went to enormous lengths of trouble to record and transfer the films, but me (stupid   ::  ) had not thought to download more than about 3 films from his Russian section.  
Most of these films are not available with any subs at all, and were "rare" films. It's hard enough to find any decent Swedish subs for Russian films, I have to get the English subs and it's only a fraction of the Russian films that even have subs at all. He had at least a hundred Russian films.  
To be honest I had planned to download a bunch of the films and upload them to swetorrents of pirate bay.. but I didn't get around to it. Now this man will have to pay a massive fine and probably won't dare take the site up again. He did not have quite the coolness of the Pirate Bay and was not out to make a political statement.  
This project was very cool -- he had all sorts of very rare films not only from Russia but across Europe, and they ruined it just because he was so stupid as to share some Hollywood films.

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## starrysky

> *I saw Sex and the City 2 (the movie).*

 Was the first movie good? 
I had similar reaction to the "Shopaholic" film -- totally hated it. I liked the book -- it was quite funny and ironic and reading it in English probably added to its interest but the film I thought was awful... Well, maybe not awful but so different from the book -- the whole set-up changed to New York instead of London... Wrong lead actor...  
I've never also seen a single episode of Sex and the City. I mean, why would I watch a series about four _women_? lol I'm not into women. And these actresses didn't seem very interesting look-wise. I dunno... Just not natural. I adored "Friends", though. And some other stuff like "The O.C." and "Gilmore Girls", of which I've seen only one or two seasons. It's been such a long time since I've seen any American stuff, actually, be it a film or a sitcom.

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## Hanna

> Originally Posted by Johanna  *I saw Sex and the City 2 (the movie).*   Was the first movie good?

 I have seen most of the episodes of the TV series. (yeah... admit...   :: )  
It is TERRIBLY materialistic, decadent etc but also fun and entertaining. 
But it's a bit like ice cream which tastes good at first but is not real food and can be sickening in large quantities...  
The point is that the four women have quite different personalities and priorities in life. And different fashion sense. You could argue they are all quite messed up and very loose too.... There is a big theme about the different types of guys they date. They sleep with a new guy in almost every episode.  
The other point is to show off a lot of fashion, particularly shoes... A lot of women I knew got pretty stressed out about feeling that they ought to have clothes by the same designers as Carrie in the series. Many womens magazines here in the UK ran a feature on the fashion featured in the latest episode.  *
I never saw the first film* because frankly that series had its' time and a film just seemed silly. The conclusion of the series left it exactly where it should end and no further spin on the story was needed.

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## starrysky

> I have seen most of the episodes of the TV series. (yeah... admit...  )
> It is TERRIBLY materialistic, decadent etc but also fun and entertaining.

 Nothing wrong about it.   ::   Since I haven't seen a single episode and can't judge I can readily believe it's entertaining. But yeah, materialistic is not something I enjoy first and foremost... Though you could say "Shopaholic" was quite materialistic and yet fun.   

> They sleep with a new guy in almost every episode.

 That's... nice.   ::  But I suppose they are still searching for "true love" all the time.    

> The other point is to show off a lot of fashion, particularly shoes... A lot of women I knew got pretty stressed out about feeling that they ought to have clothes by the same designers as Carrie in the series. Many womens magazines here in the UK ran a feature on the fashion featured in the latest episode.

 Ouch. 
Johanna, you've totally freaked me out with your new nickname!   ::  I thought we've got a new member with a similar name!

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## Hanna

_I just realised that I have been sharing some opinions and even professional comments... The net (and the world) can be very small and I don't want anything I say here to haunt me at a later date. It's particularly complicated for work really, that's all._ This is a nickname for my regular name, but I don't use it in England. 
Hope it doesn't sound strange or something in Russian?

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## quartz

> _I just realised that I have been sharing some opinions and even professional comments... The net (and the world) can be very small and I don't want anything I say here to haunt me at a later date. It's particularly complicated for work really, that's all._ This is a nickname for my regular name, but I don't use it in England. 
> Hope it doesn't sound strange or something in Russian?

 
Is this because of my PM ??

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## Hanna

_No, no! It was silly of me to sign up with my own name, hardly anyone is stupid enough to do that. Some people don't even want to say where they live. That said, those who i consider to be friends here already know my real name and I'd be more than happy to meet up with any of them in real life... But it's quite a different thing if some colleague or friend happened to stumble in on this forum and thought "hey I know her, I can't believe she is saying xyz". I just seriously dissed my job and even their hospitality gifts (movie premiere tickets and such... ) _

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## quartz

> _No, no! It was silly of me to sign up with my own name, hardly anyone is stupid enough to do that. Some people don't even want to say where they live. That said, those who i consider to be friends here already know my real name and I'd be more than happy to meet up with any of them in real life... But it's quite a different thing if some colleague or friend happened to stumble in on this forum and thought "hey I know her, I can't believe she is saying xyz". I just seriously dissed my job and even their hospitality gifts (movie premiere tickets and such... ) _

 I totally understand that. I never disclose much about myself online (I dont even have social networks accounts) as in my field (academia) things you say might haunt you for a long time and will hurt your job prospects. 
I guess it was a coincidence (my PM and your name switch).

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## rockzmom

Too funny Spanish with Russian subtitles!!! I can't win!!! http://www.megavideo.com/?d=2MMYXGNN  ::

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## Hanna

I saw a great show which I want to recommend to sci-fi fans:  
"Caprica" 
It's a spinoff of "Battlestar Galactica" and very cleverly done in my view. It raises some issues which are relevant at present, but set them in the future, on the planet "Caprica" prior to the events that are shown in "Battlestar Galactica".   
It shows the birth of artificial intelligence in form of the Cylons; what motivates the creation of them.. and it features a sort of alternative online world, like a 3D/holographic internet, and the teen culture that springs up around it.   *Basically if you like sci-fi, you'll enjoy this series!* 
Women will like it,  because some of the most interesting characters are female.  
I think it was made by a channel called "Syfy"  (USA) - In Europe it's showing on the Scifi channel and of course, available to download. Recommended.

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## Hanna

An obscure review:  I saw a Swedish TV film by SVT (state TV) called "Ryska dörren" (The Russian door). This film had some funny moments, but on the whole, I give it only 1 star out of 5.   ::  
Allegedly it is based on a true story.  
Trailer:http://www.framestation.se/drd.swf   
The film is from last year, but it is supposed to take place in 1990 or perhaps 1989. The plot is that a Swedish man from the North is a bus driver on a long distance coach from Kiruna (Sweden) to Murmansk (Russia/USSR). During his stopover in Murmansk he meets a Russian woman (guide/interpreter) whom he falls in love with. However her mother is suspicious towards him, because he is a foreigner. The guide lives with her son, at her mothers' place.  
The bus driver learns that the guides' mother needs to replace the front door to her flat, but is having trouble finding a replacement and getting it installed. He makes a promise to her that he will deliver a first-class door to her, and install it himself (so that she will realise that he is a good person...)  
However the delivery of the door gets delayed due to bureacracy in Sweden, Finland and Russia (this bit is quite funny). In order to meet all the necessary bureacratic requirements, he has no choice but to make the door himself, from scratch.  
Meanwhile the alcoholic and corrupt manager of the bus company fires the bus driver, and he is no longer able to travel to Murmansk due to travel restrictions of the time - it requires a special permission.  
In order to be able to get back there, only one option exists, he needs to get on a workers' cultural exchange. For this, he first needs to get involved in a local socialist organisation. He is not a serious socialist, but fakes it... (this part is also funny, particularly a scene where some USSR citizens visit Sweden on an exchange going the other way.)  
The bus drivers' efforts at getting on the cultural exchange pays off. He ends up actually smuggling the door with him into Russia, while on the cultural exchange... 
Against all odds, with plenty of drama, he is able to deliver and install the door, and that's the end of the film. 
The topic of the film is a bit strange to say the least. Two things seriously irritated me about it: 
1) The bus driver could only speak very rudimentary Russian and frequently switches to English when he can't find the words in Russian.  
2) How could there have been a coach to Murmansk while the USSR existed..! And who precisely would have used it??  
3) The bus driver has a totally lame personality. Why would the smart and pretty Russian guide fall for him?!  Makes little sense.  
All and all, this film was interesting insight into how people lived in Northern Sweden and in Murmansk in the 1980s. 
The extreme boozing culture in all three countries is realistic for sure... All the scenes from Murmansk were filmed there, so far as I could tell.

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## E-learner

> 3) The bus driver has a totally lame personality. Why would the smart and pretty Russian guide fall for him?!  Makes little sense.

 Russian proverb: "Любовь зла - полюбишь и козла".

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## Basil77

I have a question to Hanna here, tell me, please, does he speaks real Swedish or just rubbish?  http://video.mail.ru/mail/aitova077/803/809.html

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## Hanna

It's rubbish!!  ::   
Well actually, it is some "German" words, basically says "I am sent by the Swedish king...", then mostly nonsense, or maybe my German is not the best... What's the name of this film? I have seen it ages ago (198x) and remember thinking how silly it was that in all of Russia they couldn't find anyone who could say a few simple sentences in Swedish... Replacing our beautiful language for mock German??!!   ::  But it happens in American films to...  _Plus, can we have that area back please?   Didn't *really* mean to declare war on Russia.. it was just a misunderstanding...._   Is Kemsk the Russian name for the area that Vyborg is in?

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## translationsnmru

> Is Kemsk the Russian name for the area that Vyborg is in?

 No, the city of Kem (Kemi in Finnish) is located almost on the shores of the White See, and Vyborg, on the shores of the Gulf of Finland. Vyborg belonged to Sweden once, but I am not sure about Kem (I know that the lands around Kem were raided and ravaged by Swedish troops at one point, but I am not sure if they managed to keep the area for long)

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## Hanna

Oh ok.. Gosh you really know your history! Sweden actually built that castle there in Vyborg; it was a big deal in school history, because it's located at a strategically important point -- whoever holds it controls the whole area.  
I am a bit hazy on exactly what happened around that time, but to sum it up; Sweden declared war on Russia because it wanted some lands somewhere in Western Russia. And because the king at the time was about 18 years old and really wanted to fight Russia... (there is a very famous poem about that..) 
But Russia won the war and took Finland and part of the Baltic states from Sweden. Can't remember the exact details.  
EDIT: I just checked this... Apparently Russia took 1/3 of Sweden's entire territory at the time!! This was 1809.  
All this is considered a great tragedy in Sweden, although some people also say it's good, because we haven't really been in any major wars since then, which has been good for the country.  
I read in Swedish papers that there is a recent Russian film about the major RU-SE battle that took place 100 years before that.  (Narva)  *We should stick to playing icehockey with Russia, I think..........*

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## gRomoZeka

> It's rubbish!!  
> [...]
>  I have seen it ages ago (198x) and remember thinking how silly it was that in all of Russia they couldn't find anyone who could say a few simple sentences in Swedish... Replacing our beautiful language for mock German??!!   But it happens in American films to...

 It's a (slapstick) comedy, so they probably did not even try to be authentic.  ::  I won't be surprised if they have invented this gibberish purely for comic effect. Цигель, цигель, ай-лю-лю. ))

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## quartz

> I read in Swedish papers that there is a recent Russian film about the major RU-SE battle that took place 100 years before that.  (Narva)

 I'm guessing it's The Sovereign's Servant (English title) or Слуга государев. Swedish wikipedia lol 
I've been meaning to see this for a while. Is it any good, anyone? I heard it was pretty bad.

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## Basil77

> I read in Swedish papers that there is a recent Russian film about the major RU-SE battle that took place 100 years before that.  (Narva)

 I didn't watched the film but reviews says it's rather bad so I haven't a big desire to watch it. If you want a really good stuff about Geart Northern War from the Russian point of view I highly reccomend you to read the epic novel by Alexey Tolstoy "Peter I". It's one of my favorite books and I read it about 10 times.  ::   The last part of it describes early years of Northern War, including big chapters about Karl XII, his court and even his everyday life. The novel was translated in English in case you feel it's hard for you yet to go though this really BIG thing in Russian. The book was "filmatised" several times, but I didn't exactly liked the films comparing to the book.

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## Hanna

Wow, thanks for the tip!
I am so impressed by the history skills of many people on this forum, including you...   *
I did not actually know about this book, but now I'm really intrigued.* It's got to be exceptional if you have read it that many times...  _(edit, the book is available in Swedish actually, but hasn't been reprinted for a while. The title is Tsar Peter. Interesting author -- he writes both scifi and historical novels!)_ 
Also I did not know that this war was called "Great Northern" in Russia.  
Frankly, I have always wondered why Karl XII is considered a hero king. He should NOT have attacked Russia... I don't know the details of this precisely. Sweden had a great position in Northern Europe and I don't think Russia was even interested in challenging that. *So why did he declare war? I really don't know.*  But because of his greed and bad judgment everything was lost.  *
There was practically a personality cult* around this king for a while.. Nowadays extreme nationalists, skinheads, nazis etc absolutely revere him still... Don't get why... Just because there are some cheezy poems about someone does not make him great. 
Sweden has had some great kings, but in my view he was NOT one of them and I really don't understand the big deal about somebody who lost an empire through bad judgment.  
pointing towards his doom...

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## Ramil

> Frankly, I have always wondered why Karl XII is considered a hero king. He should NOT have attacked Russia... I don't know the details of this precisely. Sweden had a great position in Northern Europe and I don't think Russia was even interested in challenging that. [b]So why did he declare war?

 Baltic Sea. That's the reason. Peter was trying very hard to establish a foothold on its banks. If you look at the map of the Scandinavian peninsula you'll see that the only naval trade route was from Archangelsk which meant moving in the extreme north around the peninsula to mainland Europe. Russia had no ports in the Baltic sea and Sweden ruled these waters. Karl XII was trying to ban Peter's access to the Baltic Sea in this war. St. Petersburg is Russia's 'window' to Europe exactly because of that - the shortest naval way to Europe starts there.

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## Полуношник

> What's the name of this film? I have seen it ages ago (198x) and remember thinking how silly it was that in all of Russia they couldn't find anyone who could say a few simple sentences in Swedish... Replacing our beautiful language for mock German??!!   ?

 It's "Иван Васильевич меняет профессию".  
The whole story was a dream of Shurik, an amateur physicists injured during an experiment. The Ambassador couldn't speak Swedish because Shurik could not do it, apparently.  ::

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## Hanna

Oh yes, thanks! That film is on the top one hundred in the thread "Greatest hits of Russian cinema". There are so many Russian films I'd like to watch but I decided to start with newer films.

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## Hanna

> Baltic Sea. That's the reason. Peter was trying very hard to establish a foothold on its banks. If you look at the map of the Scandinavian peninsula you'll see that the only naval trade route was from Archangelsk which meant moving in the extreme north around the peninsula to mainland Europe. Russia had no ports in the Baltic sea and Sweden ruled these waters. Karl XII was trying to ban Peter's access to the Baltic Sea in this war. St. Petersburg is Russia's 'window' to Europe exactly because of that - the shortest naval way to Europe starts there.

 Oh yeah, I definitely knew that about Arkangelsk, and I know that Russia has had problems with access to the the Atlantic etc. Did not know that Karl XII tried to prevent access or what he hoped to gain from that.  
So was that the first time Russia got ports on the Baltic Sea then? 
I think Russia also got some more land on the Baltic after the Winter War with Finland.  
From todays' perspective it's seems crazy that Sweden could fight a country like Russia, and during the USSR period it seemed even more absurd.   
I think the kings got overly confident because they had a few lucky victories; Russia might have been involved in more than one war at the same time, hence stretched..  plus Sweden happened to have an unusually well organised army the time. But they should have realised that this could never be sustained! 
I remember vividly from school history the teacher explaining that it is literally impossible to win any extended war with Russia because of the "scorched earth method" and that Russia has got used to accepting very large numbers of casualties while at war.  
It seems like Russia is being attacked, not the attacker in most of the wars that it has been involved in, that I know about. Do you agree or am I mistaken?   
Not sure how many real examples there are of this "scorched earth" technique actually being used but I have heard about it many times.  
Perhaps I should watch a war film that is NOT about WW2 but some earlier era. Any good ones?

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## quartz

> Perhaps I should watch a war film that is NOT about WW2 but some earlier era. Any good ones?

 if you mean about "scorched earth method", anything about the War of 1812 
"War and Peace" by Sergei Bodnarchuk ?

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## Basil77

> Not sure how many real examples there are of this "scorched earth" technique actually being used but I have heard about it many times.

 Sorry, but all these talks about "scorched earth" technique, "general winter", "endless piles of cannon fodder" are just plain loser's propaganda bullsh!t. How this "theory" fits for example for Battle of Rymnik when count Suvorov attacked almost 70000 (100000 by other sources) fortified(!) Turkish army with only 10000 Russian troops and 15000 allied Austrians and reached flawless victory? There are many other examples. 
<Back to the topic>
First part of Poltava battle scene from "Слуга государев":  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24gQKRF9aJ0

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## Ramil

> Oh yeah, I definitely knew that about Arkangelsk, and I know that Russia has had problems with access to the the Atlantic etc. Did not know that Karl XII tried to prevent access or what he hoped to gain from that.  
> So was that the first time Russia got ports on the Baltic Sea then?

 Yes, Russia had no ports there prior to Peter.  

> I think Russia also got some more land on the Baltic after the Winter War with Finland.

 Yes it did but it was a rather small patch of land.   

> From todays' perspective it's seems crazy that Sweden could fight a country like Russia, and during the USSR period it seemed even more absurd.

 Russia was weak at that point and even though it had a lot of land its control over the territory was only nominal in some places. Sweden could cut a lot of northern territories in this war.    

> I remember vividly from school history the teacher explaining that it is literally impossible to win any extended war with Russia because of the "scorched earth method" and that Russia has got used to accepting very large numbers of casualties while at war.

 What it takes to win a war? If you're going to conquer all the land it will prove very difficult with a country as big as Russia, but if your goal is to capture only some key territories and crush the opposing army it can be possible. You are victorious if you have achieved your goals, that's all.   

> It seems like Russia is being attacked, not the attacker in most of the wars that it has been involved in, that I know about. Do you agree or am I mistaken?

 Russia had some wars where it was an attacker (well, theoretically, it conquered Siberia, Caucasus, Crimea, parts of Finland, Poland and a great deal of Middle Asia). There wouldn't have been so much land if there weren't any conquests.   

> Not sure how many real examples there are of this "scorched earth" technique actually being used but I have heard about it many times.

 There are few. The most illustrative one is Napoleon's invasion of 1812. He took Moscow without fight but soon he realized that he had nothing to feed the army with. It was a disaster. He brought a huge army in Russia but not very many of them made it home. Most of them died not in a fight but from hunger, cold, diseases, etc.   

> Perhaps I should watch a war film that is NOT about WW2 but some earlier era. Any good ones?

 There is a great mini-series called 'Россия Молодая' (Young Russia). http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081924/
It's very well made and I like it very much. If you're interested in Russian history you must watch it. You 'feel' the epoch and you live with its characters when watching it.

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## quartz

> Originally Posted by Hanna  Not sure how many real examples there are of this "scorched earth" technique actually being used but I have heard about it many times.   Sorry, but all this talk_ about "scorched earth" technique, "general winter", "endless piles of cannon fodder" is just plain loser's propaganda bullsh!t. How does this "theory" fit_, for example, for the Battle of Rymnik when count Suvorov attacked almost 70000 (100000 by other sources) fortified(!) Turkish army with only 10000 Russian troops and 15000 allied Austrians and achieved flawless victory? There are many other examples.

 Scorched earth technique is not something unique to wars in Russia. It was used as a strategy by many armies in many different wars.  It's not really a theory but a military strategy where _either_ the attackers (advancing) or the defenders (retreating) destroy all the resources in their way. It's not unique to Russia and isn't a comment on the Russian military (cap)abilities.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched_earth

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## Crocodile

> if you mean about "scorched earth method", anything about the War of 1812

 What I vaguely recall about the War of 1812 is that the Russians did not technically scorched their own territory. It was done by the French as they advanced and required provision. What the Russian Army had done was to force the French Army to retreat back over the same route as they came, so they couldn't find any more provision during the winter. Also, the local partisans definitely made the army supply more challenging as they constantly harassed the supply caravans. As to the severe winter, it was equally severe for both armies, so it can't be held responsible for losing or winning the war.

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## quartz

> Originally Posted by quartz  if you mean about "scorched earth method", anything about the War of 1812   What I vaguely recall about the War of 1812 is that the Russians did not technically scorched their own territory. It was done by the French as they advanced and required provision. What the Russian Army had done was to force the French Army to retreat back over the same route as they came, so they couldn't find any more provision during the winter. Also, the local partisans definitely made the army supply more challenging as they constantly harassed the supply caravans. As to the severe winter, it was equally severe for both armies, so it can't be held responsible for losing or winning the war.

 All very true, Crocodile. 
But scorched earth tactic is used not only by the attacking army but also by the retreating army. Forcing retreat through the same route -- one lacking provisions -- is also part of the same strategy.  
Regardless of this (military history is not of particular interest to me sadly) Bondarchuk's movie should be part of required viewing. It's a great film.

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## quartz

For anyone interested in (film) history and/or musicals, I highly recommend a curious little movie called _Die Frau meiner Träume_ (_Girl of my Dreams_; _Девушка моей мечты_). I was just rewatching it yet again and it's a really interesting film. It's made by UFA (Germany's main film studio) in 1944 starring Marika Rökk, a popular film star of the Nazy Germany. This movie was part of the war spoils taken by the Soviet troops (they took many films) and was screened throughout the Soviet Union as a "trophy film". It became incredibly popular. 
Nazi propaganda relied on completely different methods and assumptions than Soviet propaganda -- it was more psychological and relied on glamour, escapism, and eroticism. The life of this Aryan fantasy in the Soviet Union has always fascinated me. It's also a great musical for a fan of musicals.  
Available in Russian dubbing on selected websites   ::   But avoid the ones where they dubbed over the songs with some woman translating the lyrics in a very bored voice. OMG.  :fool"

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## Lampada

> For anyone interested in (film) history and/or musicals, I highly recommend a curious little movie called _Die Frau meiner Träume_ (_Girl of my Dreams_; _Девушка моей мечты_).

 1.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKVQ4q9Nhmo
2.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sngSLyltQgU
3.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ni2fbuKUAw
4.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHVLIjz8E3o
5.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTPte6Oa-Ic
6.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcsgR3fIBDM
7.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUnuZM24v4Q

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## quartz

> Originally Posted by quartz  For anyone interested in (film) history and/or musicals, I highly recommend a curious little movie called _Die Frau meiner Träume_ (_Girl of my Dreams_; _Девушка моей мечты_).   1.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKVQ4q9Nhmo
> 2.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sngSLyltQgU
> 3.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ni2fbuKUAw
> 4.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHVLIjz8E3o
> 5.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTPte6Oa-Ic
> 6.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcsgR3fIBDM
> 7.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUnuZM24v4Q

 Yes that's the one to avoid. Someone speaking over Marika Rökk's singing! Travesty!  ::

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## Basil77

In der Nacht ist der Mensch nicht gern' alleine,
Denn die Liebe im hellen Mondenscheine,
Ist das schönste, sie wissen was ich meine,
Einesteils und andrerseits und außerdem.
Denn der Mensch braucht ein kleines bißchen Liebe,
Grade sie ist im großen Weltgetriebe
Für das Herz wohl das schönste aller Triebe,
Einesteils und andrerseits und außerdem. 
Как там говорил Копелян? "Штирлиц смотрел её уже в шестой раз, он ненавидел эту картину" ?  ::

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## quartz

> Как там говорил Копелян? "Штирлиц смотрел её уже в шестой раз, он ненавидел эту картину" ?

 What does Stirlitz know about good movies anyway!?    ::

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## Vadim Mo

> What does Stirlitz know about good movies anyway!?

 Soviet intelligence agent knows everything!

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## quartz

> Originally Posted by quartz  
> What does Stirlitz know about good movies anyway!?      Soviet intelligence agent knows everything!

 o yeah? they had special training in musical appreciation at the KGB school?

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## Vadim Mo

> Originally Posted by Vadim Mo  
> Soviet intelligence agent knows everything!   o yeah? they had special training in musical appreciation at the KGB school?

 I am sorry but it is our Military Secret!   ::

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## Basil77

By the way, I've made a little search in the net about this movie ("Die Frau meiner Träume" with Marika Rökk) and have found an interesting fact about this film and it's appearance in the "17 moments of spring". First, Shtirlitz couldn't watch this film at a Third Reich cinema because it's was made in the late 1944 and just wasn't snown in nazi Geramny before it's defeat. It was shown at Soviet cinema theaters as a trophy movie in 1945. And secondly, when the "17 momets of spring" was colorized lately, in the episode when Shtirlitz watch the "Die Frau meiner Träume" the picture on screen remains black and white although the original movie ("Frau" of course) was made in *color(!)*.   ::

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## quartz

> By the way, I've made a little search on the net about this movie ("Die Frau meiner Träume" with Marika Rökk) and have found an interesting fact about this film and its appearance in the "17 Moments of Spring". First, Shtirlitz couldn't watch this film at a Third Reich cinema because it_ was made in the late 1944 and just wasn't snown in Nazi Geramny before its defeat. It was shown in Soviet cinemas [s:36bdail2]theaters[/s:36bdail2] as a trophy movie in 1945. And secondly, when the "17 Momets of Spring" was colorized [s:36bdail2]lately[/s:36bdail2] recently, in the episode where Shtirlitz watches [s:36bdail2]the[/s:36bdail2] "Die Frau meiner Träume", the picture on the screen remains black and white although the original movie ("Frau" of course) was made in *color(!)*.

 There are many historical inaccuracies in the series, so the 1st doesn't surprise me.
But the second is pretty bad. I also looked up the colorized version, after someone told me that this series was colorized (HOW HORRIBLE!). I thought it looked very very bad. I didn't watch that particular scene that you describe, Basil, but I read about it. Sounds funny. 
BTW in what episode is Stirlitz at the cinema? I'd like to see this colorized scene and I don't remember the details of the plot very well.

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## Hanna

Haha... Well, when I watched "Stirlitz" I saw a "Konsum" shop (East German [DDR] food shop). There was something else as well which was very typical East Germany which I have forgotten now. But Konsum is easy to remember for me; we have shops called that in Sweden too, and I know that they started AFTER the war, so they could not by any logic appear during the period when Stirlitz is in Germany... 
(But I am totally hopeless - I always ruin the viewing experience for myself by getting distracted by things like that in films! People always get fed up with me because I mention it when I watching films with others)  And on a footnoote, I absolutely can't get the subtitles to work with the colour version of Stirlitz... Don't know if they've cut or added scenes or something, but it just doesn't work...  It only works with the b/w version... Did anyone have the same problem? I really need the subs, the conversation in that series is too complicated for me to understand without subs right now. 
And I have never heard of Marika Rökk!   ::

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## Basil77

> after someone told me that this series was colorized (HOW HORRIBLE!)

 Полностью согласен! Кстати, quartz, ты видела эту пародию на раскрашенного Штирлица? Я хохотал до слёз!!!:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfUo2DKoLWA 
"Они превратили Третий Рейх в Союзмультфильм!"   ::   ::   ::     

> Haha... Well, when I watched "Stirlitz"...

 Originally I remember myself noticing this mistake when I watched the series for the first time (I was about 12 back then): 
When Kate is boarding the train in Switzerland(!) there is a typical lettering on the coach in Russian "мест [number]", it is written on every coach of Russian passenger trains even now and means how many places for passengers there.

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## quartz

> Originally Posted by quartz  after someone told me that this series was colorized (HOW HORRIBLE!)   Полностью согласен! Кстати, quartz, ты видела эту пародию на раскрашенного Штирлица? Я хохотал до слёз!!!:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfUo2DKoLWA 
> "Они превратили Третий Рейх в Союзмультфильм!"

 До этого не смотрела. Очень смешно. Спасибо за ссылку  ::  
"Но в следующий раз, прежде чем что-то красить, потренеруйтесь, для начала, на кошках"    ::   
Вспомнилась сцена в фильме "Стиляги", в которой Фрэд красит собаку в ванне, а отец говорит ему, перестань издеваться над животным. И над культовыми сериалами издеваться не надо.   ::     ::

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## Vadim Mo

> "Но в следующий раз, прежде чем что-то красить, потренеруйтесь, для начала, на кошках"

 А ты знаешь, из какого фильма эта цитата про кошек?   ::

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## quartz

> Originally Posted by quartz  
> "Но в следующий раз, прежде чем что-то красить, потренеруйтесь, для начала, на кошках"       А ты знаешь, из какого фильма эта цитата про кошек?

 как не знать? это "советский фильм 101" 
"Кто не работает, тот ест. Учись, студент."   ::

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## rockzmom

New film topic! Long ago, when most of you were not even a thought about in your parent's minds... there was a movie called The Gumball Rally. This movie came out the same year as the first Cannonball movie. These movies are about car races from one coast of the U.S. to the other. 
I remember this film from my youth (yup, I am that old) and there is ONE very good line from it (well maybe more) that if you are of my generation, you STILL know it and upon occasion will say it when you are in the car. 
First rule of Italian driving! Say it with me people!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjGXn249Fc0 
I bring this all up because of a story in the news this week: http://wot.motortrend.com/6658222/mi...rip/index.html 
Gumball Rally on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gumball_Rally 
Gumball Rally the movie in English http://stagevu.com/video/wojlibtfhndc

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## Hanna

> First rule of Italian driving! Say it with me people!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjGXn249Fc0

 I wish they could stlll apply that rule now,then I could get my licence there. Unfortunately Italy is subject to EUs driving test regulations.  
The only people who drive like that are those who got their licences BEFORE the new tests were introduced. Everyone else drives like this:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YsdH...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wogpRazlu8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6oyvTZWhDM 
Some British instruction videos and "games" for driving. 
Note the irritating pretentious language used!!!

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## Vadim Mo

> как не знать? это "советский фильм 101" 
> "Кто не работает, тот ест. Учись, студент."

 You have passed the test!    ::

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## rockzmom

In honor of Father's Day here in the U.S.... one of the best TV theme songs! 
"Best Friend", written and performed by Harry Nilsson  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCF7Dnov8vA

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## Crocodile

> What does Stirlitz know about good movies anyway!?

 As I vaguely recollect it was because his undercover contact hasn't arrived and Shtirlitz was worried.   ::   
I think Sun Valley Serenade was beating Die Frau meiner Träume in popularity.   ::

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## CoffeeCup

> In honor of Father's Day here in the U.S.... one of the best TV theme songs!
> "Best Friend", written and performed by Harry Nilsson

 I've never heard this song before but immediately recognize it as something familiar. It is because of the "Puppy song" by Harry Nilsson which is the soundtrack for the "You've got mail" movie.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzDRY2h-nEg (video in this clip has nothing common with the movie).

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  In honor of Father's Day here in the U.S.... one of the best TV theme songs!
> "Best Friend", written and performed by Harry Nilsson   I've never heard this song before but immediately recognize it as something familiar. It is because of the "Puppy song" by Harry Nilsson which is the soundtrack for the "You've got mail" movie.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzDRY2h-nEg (video in this clip has nothing common with the movie).

 Very good!!! 
Harry is one of those people that you know his songs but not his name..  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmmwMx06Pg8  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Nilsson

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## quartz

> I think Sun Valley Serenade was beating Die Frau meiner Träume in popularity.

   ::  what?!

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## rockzmom

Well everyone... It seems like it has been forever since I have watched a non-American movie and posted about it. I just have not has the mental capacity to deal with subtitles or really "deep" hard to follow story lines.  
I recall trying to start up The Master and Margarita again and I rewatched the same three of four episodes and then I had to stop as it is too taxing... so I am turning to you the experts... What would be a good summer film for me to watch? Something that if I stop and start it would not be too hard to follow?   Starrysky, I know you love Indian films... maybe I could branch out and try one of your favorites?  Basil... I know you love the animations (as well our war film expert) & gRomoZeka... which animations haven't you posted that I could watch?

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## gRomoZeka

> ... which animations haven't you posted that I could watch?

 Have you seen these?   *Sherlock Holmes & Dr. Watson* (with Eng subs) RECOMMENDED.  ::   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HULUEK0PkbU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2emcWHVULE 
Here's a nice cartoon for kids about two naughty dogs: *Bobik visits Barbos (Бобик в гостях у Барбоса)* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp7zzFAQhzw  *About Sidorov Vova" (1985)* - I wonder do you find this funny?  ::  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JBUY8KtUIw 
And a classic cartoon: *The Snow Queen* (1957) in 7 parts (English subs) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg3pGB_Yfp8 (part 1) 
There are a lot of great Russian cartoons on youtube, but unfortunately they do not have English subs.
For example, there's a cartoon based on Russian medieval sagas about a young woman, who went to save her husband from captivity. I really liked it as a kid. You can enjoy a short video from this cartoon (to Mylene Farmer's "Sans Contrefacon") here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JplD-zHjfXA

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## rockzmom

> Originally Posted by rockzmom  ... which animations haven't you posted that I could watch?   Have you seen these?   *Sherlock Holmes & Dr. Watson* (with Eng subs) RECOMMENDED.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HULUEK0PkbU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2emcWHVULE 
> Here's a nice cartoon for kids about two naughty dogs: *Bobik visits Barbos (Бобик в гостях у Барбоса)* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp7zzFAQhzw  *About Sidorov Vova" (1985)* - I wonder do you find this funny?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JBUY8KtUIw 
> And a classic cartoon: *The Snow Queen* (1957) in 7 parts (English subs) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg3pGB_Yfp8 (part 1) 
> There are a lot of great Russian cartoons on youtube, but unfortunately they do not have English subs.
> For example, there's a cartoon based on Russian medieval sagas about a young woman, who went to save her husband from captivity. I really liked it as a kid. You can enjoy a short video from this cartoon (to Mylene Farmer's "Sans Contrefacon") here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JplD-zHjfXA

 THANK YOU!! I did not know that Sherlock Holmes & Dr. Watson came in an animation format! I have the movie version that Olya did the subs for and never got around to watching it.  
Has anyone seen this one, "The Cat Who Walked By Herself/ Кошка, которая гуляла сама по себе" from 1988
It came up on the list next to Sherlock and caught my eye. It is based on Rudyard Kipling's short story, The Cat that Walked by Himself. 
You can watch the entire film here with English subtitles: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...4486&hl=en-CA# 
Link on IMDb http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0997248/
Wiki Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cat...ked_by_Herself

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## gRomoZeka

> THANK YOU!! I did not know that Sherlock Holmes & Dr. Watson came in an animation format! I have the movie version that Olya did the subs for and never got around to watching it.

 You are welcome! I'm sure you'll enjoy the movie. My absolute favourite is "The Hound of the Baskervilles": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hound_ ... (1981_film)  

> Has anyone seen this one, "The Cat Who Walked By Herself/ Кошка, которая гуляла сама по себе" from 1988

 I've never heard of this version! Looks very artistic, but I'm much more used to the older one from 1968, which had been aired pretty often on TV. *"The Cat Who Walked By Himself/ Кот, который гулял сам по себе"* (no subs, but everything is pretty clear from the context) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0G0be9iwKw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otn-L9oUeeA  If you like Kipling here's a beautifully made cartoon "Rikki-Tikki-Tavi" (sadly, no subs). The colors are amazing, I especially like the scene during the rain in the first part.  *"Rikki-Tikki-Tavi" / Рики-тики-тави (1965)* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3FER9hOAJk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76us1bjTGCM 
And you definitely have to see *"Adventures of Mowgli"* if you have not seen it yet!!! It's epic!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_of_Mowgli
First part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mix_e7cQUhg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCkeABQlDcw
(all parts are available in the list to the right. Again, no subs, but it's worth watching at least for a couple of minutes for its great old style animation with a unique twist)

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## E-learner

*The Tale of Soldier Fedot*
The first part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYQwWwQV ... re=related 
The language is a huge part of it and I'm not sure how much of it was lost in translation, but they tried hard.

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## rockzmom

A side bar for one second here... This is a clip from the show that aired last night, So You Think You Can Dance 
Alex, is a trained and working Ballet dancer who this week has been paired up with Twitch who is a trained and working Hip-Hop dancer.  
Alex MUST learn the style of Hip-Hop for the very first time and then be judged on it. The result is an AMAZING piece of choreography that blends both Hip-Hop and Ballet and shows the depth of talent that Alex has and how quickly he can learn a completely different style of dance!!!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLbjKnv0ju4

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## CoffeeCup

> I just have not has the mental capacity to deal with subtitles or really "deep" hard to follow story lines.

  

> I have the movie version that Olya did the subs for and never got around to watching it.

 Undoubtedly it is the movie you should start watching immediately. Wiki link. Even though it is a detective stories it will not force you to follow hard the story line at all. All of us were talking that the episodes of "The Hound of the Baskervilles" are the best. It is true but to get all the joy of these two episodes you need to be introduced to the Holmes' fictional world which was built in this series. Be sure to start with the first episode "Acquaintance" which portrayed the main characters. The second episode "Bloody Inscription" introduces the "deductive reasoning" technique in the begin of the episode and also introduces Inspector Lestrade who is a pretty colorful character in this series. 
You can avoid the final episodes "The Twentieth Century Approaches" these are not as good as all the other episodes.

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## rockzmom

> All of us were talking [s0uwieqp]that[/s0uwieqp] about the episodes of "The Hound of the Baskervilles" and saying they are the best. It is true but to get all the joy of these two episodes you need to be introduced to [s0uwieqp]the[/s0uwieqp] Holmes' fictional world which was built in this series. Be sure to start with the first episode "Acquaintance" which portray[s0uwieqp]ed[/s0uwieqp]s the main characters. The second episode "Bloody Inscription" introduces the "deductive reasoning" technique in the begin of the episode and also introduces Inspector Lestrade who is a pretty colorful character in this series. 
> You can avoid the final episodes "The Twentieth Century Approaches" these are not as good as all the other episodes.

 Coffeecup, you are correct, I only have The Hounds... And I do recall how much everyone recommend this film, and YET... somehow I had no idea it was series!!!!   ::  Would someone be kind enough to look on the Russian Yandex-server for me to see if there are versions of the other films/series with English subtitles available for download?  ::   
Here are the links to the Hounds if it helps anyone to find the others... 
Part 1: http://narod.ru/disk/4358781000/Houn...art_1.avi.html
Part 2: http://narod.ru/disk/4358782000/Houn...art_2.avi.html

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## CoffeeCup

I've found the first episode "The Acquaintance" on youtube with English subs. 
It was divided in 7 parts. part 1 part 2 part 3 part 4 part 5 part 6 part 7 
FYI. To be sure that you will not miss some parts. Episode "The Acquaintance" contains two stories: the first one is the story how Holmes and Watson met each other and became partners; the second one is about a poor girl whose twin-sister was dead just before her sister's marriage and the girl was frightened of her own life.

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## CoffeeCup

I've found both first episode "The Acquaintance" and second "Bloody Inscription" together on youtube with English subs. 
there are 14 links part 1 part 2 part 3 part 4 part 5 part 6 part 7 part 8 part 9 part 10 part 11 part 12 part 13 part 14

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## starrysky

> Starrysky, I know you love Indian films... maybe I could branch out and try one of your favorites?

 *I've been engulfed by the dangerous underworld called Hindi cinema, so all my free time is consumed by it now.* 
Just noticed that this whole thread was moved and a subforum created... Good idea. 
Yeah, for half a year I've been watching mainly Hindi movies. I've now seen about, I dunno, 50 films. Not that much, really, but I am rather cautious when it comes to watching stuff.  *rockzmom*, you really shouldn't have asked! *groaning* How can I restrain myself from talking about my fave subject at the moment? There'll be no stopping me now!! 
My favourites remain practically the same: 
Favourite Hindi movies Part 1   ::    *1. Asoka* (2001; dir. Santosh Sivan)  
-- for SRK's performance, for the tragic story and for the visuals from Santosh Sivan... It's a treat 
I really strongly recommend this movie to anyone who thinks there's nothing original in Indian movies. It may seem a bit strange at first but this is one movie most bolly-fans practically worship... 
Check out these great fan videos, for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUNhKIjbDuA&NR=1  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_KD7...eature=related  Making of Asoka  asoka on rediff.com          *2. Kuch Kuch Hota Hai* (199 ::  Karan Johar's debut as a director and one of my all time favourites... It has colours, emotions, a lot of heart and sincerity...            *3. Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge* (1995; Aditya Chopra) -- a true classic from first-time director Aditya Chopra. This one has been on in Mumbai theatres for 15 years now.   ::  It's also one of only two Hindi movies that got a spot in the "1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die" book. It's a brilliant comedy in a lot of ways... and great music. The movie that catapulted Shahrukh Khan and Kajol to fame and made them into a legendary screen couple in India.                  *4. Main Hoon Na* (Farah Khan) -- this is a brilliant self-parody! I've loved this movie for a long time and never tire of it... It's all about the humour and irony and I love all the characters.                *5. Chalte Chalte* (2003; Aziz Mirza) -- already wrote about it too. 
Love Rani... Favourite Indian actress...

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## starrysky

Favourite Hindi movies Part 2   ::    *6. Josh* (2000) -- Bollywood remake of Westside Story.              *7. Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi* -- just a very nice, feelgood, heartfelt, beautiful movie. Exactly "my type" of film. Very nice music. Check out two songs from it: 
Tujhe Mein Rab Dikhta Hai 
Yaara Main Kya Karoon...  
(I See God In You, Dear, What Am I to Do?)   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ux-BqSBomE 
Haule Haule ("Little by little you'll love me") http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkPhLZ0Zpr8                  interesting review  *8. Devdas* (Sanjay Lila Bhansali)  *9. Dil Se* (1998; Mani Ratnam) -- well, I already wrote at length about it earlier... 
And there are a few others that I liked a lot (Yes Boss, Ram Jaane...) But maybe later... 
These are almost all mainstream movies, with Asoka and Dil Se being a bit of art-films. They are all qute entertaining but of course it depends on your taste. There are directors in Bollywood that make more serious, gloomy, original, whatever, movies, like Mani Ratnam, Ram Gopal Varma (Satya, Company), Anurag Kashyap (Black Friday, No Smoking) but the thing is, they are not "my" movies. Those are often about terrorists, Mumbai criminal underworld and things like that.    
Don't remember if I posted this before:  *BollyWHAT?'s Top Ten Films* http://www.bollywhat.com/rentalguide.html 
1. Kuch Kuch Hota Hai
2. Dil Se
3. Satya
4. Dilwale Dulhaniya Le Jayenge
5. 1942: A Love Story
6. Dil Chahta Hai
7. Zakhm
8. Lagaan
9. Satta
10. Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak 
There are too oldest film awards in India:  *Filmfare Awards* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filmfare_awards 
Filmfare Award for Best Movie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filmfare_Best_Film_Award 
and *National Film Awards* (this one is more "serious"; but those films that get this award are as a rule very obscure and hard-to-find) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Film_Awards 
National Film Award for Best Film http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa..._for_Best_Film 
------------------------- 
I've seen *My Name Is Khan* recently and thought it was great. In September it'll be released in theatres in Russia. Well, I'll write about it a bit later too.

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## starrysky

*"My Name is Khan" (2010)*    
I liked it quite a bit. I was actually very surprised that I liked it so much, because for some reason I was rather wary of this film.. But it turned out to be much better than I expected. Spectacular if not sulime in some aspects (acting, cinematography, music), and very entertaining on the whole. At least, it's way better than most of the stuff Bollywood churns out. As Nikhat Kazmi of The Times of India said, it's *"indubitably one of the most meaningful and moving films to be rolled out from the Bollywood mills in recent times."* 
The film is about *a Muslim with Asperger's syndrome* (Rizwan Khan) living in post 9/11 US... "My name is Khan and I'm not a terrorist" is his mantra. The film is not without flaws but it's got great performances from Shahrukh Khan, Kajol and supporting cast, great music and stunning cinematography. America looks really beautiful here. For all those who don't know, Shahrukh and Kajol are the legendary, most beloved couple in Hindi cinema, Han Solo and Princess Leia or Spencer Tracy and Katherine Hepburn of Hindi cinema, as someone put it. So this movie was a bit of a big deal because it has them reuniting after about 10 years.   *Shahrukh* -- well, prior to this, I've seen him in more than 30 other films, plus interviews. I had my doubts about Shahrukh playing an autist. Because he seems so far from being even an introvert. I know he's a really good actor but I was absolutely thrown by his performance here... Because I never saw "Shahrukh" in Rizwan. I totally believed in this character. Because of his condition, Rizwan is a very touching, endearing character. A lot like Forrest Gump. I don't know much about autism. I've seen "Rainman", of course, and we learned about it as part of psychology courses at my uni... As far as I can judge, it was great work on SRK's part. I've read comments from people who work with autists that it was spot-on.   *Kajol* is a fantastic actress. Very natural, very beautiful, very watchable, she is the only one who nearly succeeds in stealing the scene from Shahrukh. I can never take my eyes off her.  *Music*. The music is very modern but with national, Sufi motiffs. "Muslims in America" describes it best. It can be downloaded here. My favourite is Noor E Khuda. In fact, my favourite scenes in the movie are during this song -- Khan's journey through America.  *Director*. Karan Johar is one my favourite Indian directors (along with Santosh Sivan, Aditya Chopra, Farah Khan and Aziz Mirza). He's not the best director out there but I love him for the kind, warm and sincere person he is. I think his best film was Kuch Kuch Hota Hai, his debut, which he made when he was 25. In KKHH you can see that everything is from the heart, perhaps that's why it's been so popular. His other films -- Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham, Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna, Kal Ho Naa Ho (as a screenwriter) are interesting works and some of the few films that made me cry my heart out but they have maaaany flaws... Karan has been sort of blamed for making fluffy romances. Now, MNIK is quite different. It doesn't have any dance--song routines/item numbers. The songs are all in the background. The subject matter is quite serious but the film is not gloomy, it has some great humour. 
MNIK is human. Beautiful. Touching. Sincere. Heartfelt.  
All this can be said about other Johar's films as well.  *Cinematography* by Ravi Chandran is... well, fantastic.
Fave shots       
The first half of the movie is so good in terms of scripting, that it's a bit of a shock to see how it goes downhill in the second half... It is as if Karan sabotaged himself. But I have to say, this film is such an emotional rollercoaster that I didn't really care about the flaws toward the end. MNIK has been described as "Slumdog Millionaire" meets "Forrest Gump" meets "Rainman" but this creates a slightly negative image of ideas rehashed... whereas MNIK looks really fresh and interesting.  
It was released in the US in February and an abridged version (about 100 min) was released again in June ,if I'm not mistaken. In Russia, we'll see it in theatres in September but I don't think it's gonna make any collections, really, because of all the piracy.  
Oh God, I could go on and on and on about it, I'd better just stop.  Official website  MNIK on imdb  wiki article    A nice review by Charles R. Larson  another interesting review, only in French  nice fan video 
Some pics from MNIK                                                  
OK, that's enough about one film... Told ya, there'd be no stopping me.   ::  Hope I've not been too obnoxious...   ::  Please, don't kill me for the pics overload. It's just that I saw it recently and the impression is still very strong.

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## Lampada

Starrysky, dear!  Maybe we want to open a separate topic for foreigh movies?

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## gRomoZeka

> Starrysky, dear!  Maybe we want to open a separate topic for foreigh movies?

 +10000 
Или может быть лучше открыть свою тему про индийские фильмы.  ::

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## Basil77

А я послей вот этой старой пародии индийские фильмы смотреть вообще не могу - после нескольких минут просмотра пробивает на ха-ха.   ::  Правда, последним индийским фильмом, который я посмотрел от начала и до конца, был "Танцор диско" и смотрел я его, как сейчас помню, в совковом сельском клубе в Рязанской области году так эдак в 88.  ::

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## rockzmom

> OK, that's enough about one film... Told ya, there'd be no stopping me.     Hope I've not been too obnoxious...     Please, don't kill me for the pics overload.

   ::   ::   ::  starrysky!!! you made my day.... 105 degree heat here and my migraines are killing me and you have just made me feel soooo much better... thank you!   

> Originally Posted by Lampada  Starrysky, dear!  Maybe we want to open a separate topic for foreigh movies?   +10000 
> Или может быть лучше открыть свою тему про индийские фильмы.

 Lampada! I agree with you and gRomoZeka.  I think that this thread might be getting tooo large and hard to navigate. Maybe if we had different sub threads it would be easier? 
We could start with starrysky's amazing Hindi/Indian reviews that she has posted in this thread and make a Hindi/Indian sub thread that would be great! 
I guess the question would be where to have all of these in ONE central place so that everyone can find them easily? So no matter what films/tv you are looking for you would go to ONE central location and all the sub groups for discussion would be there. Does that make sense? 
So, like one for Animation with all the great things that gRomoZeka has, and Basil's War collection, one for Hindi/Indian, and make others as we need them but have them all under ONE umbrella. We can still have the catch all Russian reviews that Hanna started and this major beast of a thread as they both have a wealth of information with lots of links and people can just ask questions in this thread about ANY TV or FILM.... but it might be nice to have the genres broken out for people to be able to find a movie quickly that suits what they are specifically looking for. 
Thoughts? Counter ideas or suggestions? 
What do you think???

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## starrysky

> starrysky!!! you made my day.... 105 degree heat here and my migraines are killing me and you have just made me feel soooo much better... thank you!

 I always overdo things... Can't do anything about it.  ::  
So sorry about your migraines, rockzmom...   ::  I know what it's like. It's not your usual headache. I used to have them as a teen. It's been years since I've had a migraine though. *touch wood*   

> А я послей вот этой старой пародии индийские фильмы смотреть вообще не могу - после нескольких минут просмотра пробивает на ха-ха.  Правда, последним индийским фильмом, который я посмотрел от начала и до конца, был "Танцор диско" и смотрел я его, как сейчас помню, в совковом сельском клубе в Рязанской области году так эдак в 88.

 Забавная пародия.   ::  Я старых индийских фильмов немного видела, но они действительно были ужасненькие и удручают этими клише. В современных фильмах такого практически нет. Там даже женщин в сари уже редко увидишь.  
P.S. Я все-таки "Меня зовут Кхан" всем советую. Вроде отзывы хорошие и не только от индоманов. http://my-hit.ru/film/6980 Хоть и не без недостатков фильм...   

> Originally Posted by Lampada  Starrysky, dear!  Maybe we want to open a separate topic for foreigh movies?   +10000 
> Или может быть лучше открыть свою тему про индийские фильмы.

 Yeah, that's a good idea... Never thought about it! Those posts could be moved into a separate foreign movies thread or something. I mean, I also like *Chinese* films. *be prepared   ::  * Has anyone seen "House of Flying Daggers" and "Hero"? The most beautiful movies I've ever seen... The thing is, I sort of said everything I wanted to say at the moment, and Masterrusian is not a movie forum...

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## Seraph

I did not know where to put, and so I put Александр Петров 1, Александр Петров 2, Русалка, etc in Русские мультики на ютюбе. 
These and the other things I've been watching are really анимация, not мультики.  But I did not know where to put.

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## gRomoZeka

> I mean, I also like *Chinese* films. *be prepared   * Has anyone seen "House of Flying Daggers" and "Hero"? The most beautiful movies I've ever seen... The thing is, I sort of said everything I wanted to say at the moment, and Masterrusian is not a movie forum...

 I must admit, that I do not like Indian or Chinese movies too much. All this singing, dancing and flying put me off since I was a kid. ))) But these two films you mentioned I did watch!  *"House of Flying Daggers"* was visually stunning, and I enjoyed watching it (even more so because it was filmed in Ukraine), but it was a one-time film for me. The plot was almost non-existent, and I doubt I'll ever watch it again.  *"Hero"* on the other hand is one of the best movies in this genre in my opinion!!!   ::  Great idea, decent acting, amazing visual sequences - it's beautiful all around. I watched it more than once, and I made my friends watch it. That counts for something. )))

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## starrysky

> *"House of Flying Daggers"* was visually stunning, and I enjoyed watching it (even more so because it was filmed in Ukraine)

 I was really surprised to see a birch tree forest in it, and the snow, it felt so familiar at once (сразу показалось что-то родное   ::  ). And then I read in wiki that it was actually filmed in Ukraine! Yay! I knew it! Родина-мать.   ::  Хоть я и не с Украины, но я тут различий не делаю. Все равно сразу видны родные пейзажи. 
Regarding the script, I guess I'm a very visual sort of person, so I was so transfixed by the sheer beauty of it -- I didn't care so much about script inconsistencies, if there were some. Plus, it's so tragic in the end -- whenever I re-watch it, I feel this huge lump in my throat or just start crying... I'm rather emotional, yeah. Though I always thought that I'm a very reserved and calm sort of person. But I think Zhang Ziyi played it beautifully, she's an amazing actress, like her a lot... And then, there's this haunting music...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcXCq...eature=related It pretty much kills me, this music! 
another version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvcRQ...eature=related 
found it. It's called "Lovers" and it's sung by kathleen Battle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRWo8...eature=related 
"The Hero" is just another story altogether. Also fantastically beautiful AND intelligent. I don't compare these two movies in terms of which one is better because their subject matter is totally different. HFL is about love... And Hero is about, well, heroism!   ::     

> I must admit, that I do not like Indian or Chinese movies too much. All this singing, dancing and flying put me off since I was a kid.

 Hmmm... To me, music and dancing are just narrative conventions to which I got used and totally embraced... It wasn't that easy but in the end it really depends on the movie. Sometimes the music and dancing are great and fit very well into the story, sometimes not. For me, they are still much easier to accept than, for example, such ways of storytelling as ballet and opera.   ::  I probably just had unfortunate experiences with those but a) I don't like operatic voices, too powerful b) can never understand what they're singing and the whole story is sining c) it's really hard to get into the story when Tatyana and Onegin are both over 40 years old and weigh over 100 kg! 
Soviet films also have a lot of singing, like "Twelve chairs" or "Diamond Arm". Of course, we can actually understand those songs since they're in Russian. With Hindi movies, you lose a lot if you don't have subtitles for the song -- it may seem a bit boring because you don't understand the words but important stuff about characters is often revealed in songs. 
Singing in old Hindi movies is indeed not great... But when it comes to modern movies, music is sometimes the best part of a movie! For me it's become a huge bonus!  Great songs can't save the movie if it's bad but still they're something to look forward to. There was one film I saw recently, and the only thing I really liked about it was this one song --     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIXz1...eature=related 
I also adore this one, from Main Hoon Na, it always lifts me mood   ::  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy4Pz...eature=related 
Another song which I like though I haven't actually seen the movie itself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmGS4I0XNj4 
Fave dancing song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvgTM6gF6LM 
And fave sad one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oAAVWeIAF4 
Just fun songs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uPNwg4F9NU   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHVrIq6aaB8  ::

----------


## Seraph

Lampada has referenced  VelikayaRus's Channel (Youtube) in thread  Кинофильм "Вокзал для двоих" before.  But it is worth including again here, because VelikayaRus really has a very large collection of high quality movies/playlists, and other things.    VelikayaRus

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## Hanna

[s:byr6vq4r]Yeah I think this thread has become a monster. It&#39;s impossible to read the whole thread. It was entertaining at first, but now it&#39;s gone to far.[/s:byr6vq4r] 
(Edit: noticed that Rockzmom is changing the thread)  
I think it would be better to have a thread for *Asian (or Bollywood) films.* 
Shortly after I joined the forum, I started a separate thread about *Russian kino films ONLY*, because I wanted there to be something that was only about Russian films, no deviation into Hollywood films etc. I have made a few posts to that since..  
I wouldn't mind it if there was a separate thread for *Russian animated films* and maybe childrens films/series. Childrens material is good for learners because of simpler vocabulary.  
And why not one about TV series and entertainment programs from* Russian TV*?  
Ane maybe one about *the latest from Hollywood, and/or European films?*     

> My name is Khan...

 Ok, you have convinced me, at least!   ::   Next time I need some escape from my boring life in London, I will watch this film for sure!  
I like Indian music, but the films (at least as they used to be) are just too sugary and formulaic....   (perhaps not surprising, since I am a person who likes sci-fi films...) But right now I am trying to watch Russian films when I have a second; I just wish that more of the series/films I want to see had subtitles. 
PS - STARRYSKY, someone made a doll 4u!!  ::

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## rockzmom

Has anyone seen Inception? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/ 
If so, what are your thoughts about it? 
Also, did you recognize the character Arthur (the Point Man) as being the same guy... just all grown up now from when he was Tommy on 3rd Rock From the Sun?

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## rockzmom

Okay, for all you Twilight haters (and if you can take some good jokes, Twilight lovers) this movie seems to be too funny!   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZXPly6DDoM  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojO2TjA71Ws

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## Hanna

I just read that the film "Salt" is the most downloaded film on bittorrent right now.... Has anyone seen it in the cinema or elsewhere?  
I haven't seen it and right now I do not plan to... The plot is too silly..... Something about a woman (Angelina Jolie) who is a RUSSIAN SPY (in America).....  The plot is related to some kind of terrorist attack.  
If I was a Russian film director I'd make a kick-ass action move about Russian heroes saving the world from evil plotting CIA agents.... 
(Frankly that whole genre was ridiculous even when the cold war was still on and it's even more silly now!)  
Nevertheless, since this is a forum about Russian and Russian language; has anyone seen this and is it as silly as it seems?  
Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM9_l...eature=related

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## gRomoZeka

> I haven't seen it and right now I do not plan to... The plot is too silly..... Something about a woman (Angelina Jolie) who is a RUSSIAN SPY (in America).....  The plot is related to some kind of terrorist attack.

 I have not seen it either, but most people mention that anything Russian-related is shown with a high level of absurdity there (very stereotyped).  ::   
In a thread discussing this film someone posted a link to this parody to Holliwood view of Russia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUbC6xAOgHM  ::

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## Hanna

> In a thread discussing this film someone posted a link to this parody to Holliwood view of Russia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUbC6xAOgHM

 Very funny + true!!! Thanks!  *I'd be furious if my nationality got portrayed in that way!*  _
American and British teenagers may never have never met a Russian person... But they've seen about a 20 films or more of that type. So they'll get a seriously biased view... based on total nonsense! It's a bit disturbing._

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## ParsleyIsle

> Originally Posted by gRomoZeka  In a thread discussing this film someone posted a link to this parody to Holliwood view of Russia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUbC6xAOgHM

  

> Very funny + true!!! Thanks!

 Nice very nice can do nice and I wanna fly away to Mars.   
Against humor no exist weapons. 
Against pinch-bar no exist adequate answer. _Russian folk joke._

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## Hanna

Not to mention that lots of people believe that the "Borat" character actually IS from Kazakhstan, and that the film was made there....  
(Just because Sasha Barron-Cohen can't be fussed to actually open an atlas or an encycplaedia when selecting a setting for his films.) 
The film was apparently made in a gypsy village in Romania, and anyone can see that "Borat" doesn't look Central Asian at all.   
I started watching the film where Borat went to the US,  but it was so terrible that I couldn't bring myself to continue watching.    
PS - I think that ParsleyIsle above needs help with the translation of the Russian proverb....

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## Kudesnik

"Borat" is so stupid that it's sometimes funny. 
The proverb is "против лома нет приёма", I believe. It means that: 
either "There are no counter-arguments against brute force"
or "some complicated problems may be solved with a very direct and simple, rough method".

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## ParsleyIsle

> PS - I think that ParsleyIsle above needs help with the translation of the Russian proverb....

  

> Nice very nice can do nice...

 That terrible phrase I'm fished up from Spanish parapentos/paragliderman - Rodríguez. It's how I'm realized to myself is pretty quaint phrase.  _Против лома нет приема!_
Power and might always make right. (From WWW http://interpereter.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/sayings/) 
But seems like off-topic. 
"Borat" it is discovery for me.
Thanks for respond...   ::

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## rockzmom

> I have not seen it either, but most people mention that anything Russian-related is shown with a high level of absurdity there (very stereotyped).   
> In a thread discussing this film someone posted a link to this parody to Holliwood view of Russia: YouTube - Улицы разбитых фонарей в Голливуде

 Okay, so I haven't seen SALT yet either and I wasn't planning on it... maybe I should though.  
This whole "Hollywood" image of Russia and Russians goes back to why I joined this forum... I want Dmitri to be REAL not some joke of a Russian. My girls and I have learned soooooooo much already that their views have been irrefutably altered. No matter what they will be taught in school or see in films now, they will always question it. They have "met" all of you and know you. You are like their own Russian family. You each have a personality and view points that have helped them (and me) obtain a better understanding of what things are like and view points that they would never have been able to otherwise get. Oh my... look at me getting all mushy and philosophical here at the same time!

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## rockzmom

I struggled with where to post this one.. Practice English (British), Literature, Missing Olya, a new thread, or here under nonRussian Films... sigh... 
I watched a "brilliant" BBC production of Christopher Reid's narrative poem, The Song of Lunch. The story tells about a book editor who after 15 years meets his former love for a nostalgic lunch in a SoHo Italian restaurant. Starring Alan Rickman and Emma Thompson. 
The poem is very descriptive and Rickman does an amazing job of bringing it to life. It is about 50 minutes and is posted on YouTube. 
The start of the poem....  

> He leaves a message, a yellow sticky,
> on the dead black
> of his computer screen:
> gone to lunch. i may be some time.
> His colleagues won’t be seeing him
> for the rest of the afternoon.
> Rare joy of truancy, of bold escape
> from the trap of work!
> That heap of typescript can be left to dwell
> ...

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## oneplus

> Also, anyone one else who might have seen the American and Russian versions?  I am interested in learning your thoughts on these two films as I don’t know how many films are out there that fit this category (American and Russian versions of same film).

 My choise is "12 Angry Men"

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## CoffeeCup

> Question.... Are there IMAX movie theaters in Russia (or wherever you happen to live) and if so how many of them are there? What about regular 3D movie theaters?  I am asking because overall I think there are only about 400 IMAX total in the world; however, near me because of being close to Washington/Baltimore, there are seven of them.

 IMAX goes to Siberia. The first IMAX in Novosibirsk is announced to be opened next weekend. Tickets are available for booking. The first movie to be shown will be animation "Megamind".

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## Ramil

A great two movies I've just watched:

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## gRomoZeka

> Question.... Are there IMAX movie theaters in Russia (or wherever you happen to live) and if so how many of them are there? What about regular 3D movie theaters?

 We have only 2 IMAXes in Ukraine, though they promised to open the third one in a year. Regular 3D theatres are more common. We have at least three of them in my city.

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## Hanna

Ace video Rockzmom, I can really relate to that....   ::  
Wasn't familiar with this poet.

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## rockzmom

If you have not seen the movie The King's Speech, I highly recommend it. It is based upon a true story and 60 Minutes did a great piece about the back story and the making of the movie.

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## kamilion

I was actually slightly disappointed with The King's Speech! I thought it was a good movie, but in no way had I found it to be an Oscar-winning material. 
PS I can hardly recognize this place after not having been on here for a couple of months! It's nice to see some of the familiar nicknames here, though  ::  
Kamka

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## Lampada

> ... PS I can hardly recognize this place after not having been on here for a couple of months! It's nice to see some of the familiar nicknames here, though  
> Kamka

 Ой, здорово! Приветик, Камка!

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## kamilion

> Ой, здорово! Приветик, Камка!

   :: 
Как-то тихо здесь! Кажется, что немного людей посещает форум. Жаль! Помню ещё как некоторое время тому назад ежедневно было несколько десятков новых постов. Здесь что-то произошло, или просто форум "натуральной смертью" погиб?
Извиняюсь за мой русский, у меня сейчас очень редко есть шанс его употреблять и так мало-помалу забываю всё!
Надеюсь, что дело у Тебя хорошо!  ::

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## rockzmom

> I was actually slightly disappointed with The King's Speech! I thought it was a good movie, but in no way had I found it to be an Oscar-winning material. 
> PS I can hardly recognize this place after not having been on here for a couple of months! It's nice to see some of the familiar nicknames here, though  
> Kamka

 Kamka,
I'm sorry that you were "slightly disappointed" by the King's Speech. We've talked before how one can watch a film that has soooo much hype and then think "why?" This might have been the case for you. You read and hear so many great things about it in advance and then it is a let down for you. Sadly, it can never live up to the build up or expectation in your mind. 
I think the reason it won so many awards is from a technical point of view. The amount of work and research that went into this film and for Colin Firth to be able to portray Bertie really was remarkable. We are not talking special effects and CGI and all those other things that "Hollywood" has been putting out these last few years, we are talking about a great script, a compelling true story and amazing ACTING. The opening scene, when Bertie is giving his first speech you can feel his panic and shame. You suspend disbelief and you are back in history feeling what it must have been like for this poor man to have to speak in front of his country publicly when he could not do so without making a fool or joke of himself or having the nation feel pity for him. And this is all done by a man who in real life does not suffer from any speech difficulties. 
To be able to create that type of raw emotion and suck the viewers in so quickly, is why this film is so good. It went old school. Back to basics. It just told a story without any bells and whistles.

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## kamilion

> Kamka,
> I'm sorry that you were "slightly disappointed" by the King's Speech. We've talked before how one can watch a film that has soooo much hype and then think "why?" This might have been the case for you. You read and hear so many great things about it in advance and then it is a let down for you. Sadly, it can never live up to the build up or expectation in your mind. 
> I think the reason it won so many awards is from a technical point of view. The amount of work and research that went into this film and for Colin Firth to be able to portray Bertie really was remarkable. We are not talking special effects and CGI and all those other things that "Hollywood" has been putting out these last few years, we are talking about a great script, a compelling true story and amazing ACTING. The opening scene, when Bertie is giving his first speech you can feel his panic and shame. You suspend disbelief and you are back in history feeling what it must have been like for this poor man to have to speak in front of his country publicly when he could not do so without making a fool or joke of himself or having the nation feel pity for him. And this is all done by a man who in real life does not suffer from any speech difficulties. 
> To be able to create that type of raw emotion and suck the viewers in so quickly, is why this film is so good. It went old school. Back to basics. It just told a story without any bells and whistles.

 Colin Firth was, indeed, amazing, and his Oscar is well-deserved, in my opinion. Perhaps you're right and the hype is to blame for my being disappointed with the film, but I just didn't find the story too appealing. I mean, sure it was a good movie - I'm in no way trying to deny that, I just wouldn't see it as an Oscar-winning one.
I was also disappointed with the lack of nomination for "Blue Valentine". Have you seen it, by any chance? It' one of these stories that just gets stuck in your head for day and days, mostly because it's so real. Plus, the acting was brilliant, both Williams and Gosling did an excellent job!

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## Hanna

I was just watching a series called Family Guy for the first time. I know it's famous but I've just never seen it before. 
Why is the little boy speaking English with a phony sounding British accent even though his family is American?

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## alexB

> I was just watching a series called Family Guy for the first time. I know it's famous but I've just never seen it before. 
> Why is the little boy speaking English with a phony sounding British accent even though his family is American?

 Look at that.  British Accent vs American Accent [Funny] - YouTube   

> ... I know I look a bit frightening but at least I sound intelligent.

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## translationsnmru

> Why is the little boy speaking English with a phony sounding British accent even though his family is American?

 Maybe they are mocking the numerous Hollywood movies where the villains and mad scientists always seem to speak with foreign accents? Just a guess.

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## Hanna

> Maybe they are mocking the numerous Hollywood movies where the villains and mad scientists always seem to speak with foreign accents? Just a guess.

 Yes... maybe that's it... He is a bit "evil" though. 
It's kind of funny but not massively so...    

> "Welcome to Poland, a great country to invade, please take a queue number" 
> Lol

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## rockzmom

> Look at that.  British Accent vs American Accent [Funny] - YouTube

 Alexb!!!!!! Thanks for the video!!! ::  Our family was in need of a laugh tonight  ::

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## alexB

I’m glad that you were glad.  :: )
 This one will hopefully make you even gladder. Scotish Irish English American Eleven How you say eleven - YouTube
I didn’t make out everything the guys said (I wonder if you will) but they were hilarious anyway.

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## Hanna

This clip was not funny for me, because it was incorrect! 
Americans don't seem to be able to distinguish the MASSIVE difference between how educated and non-educated British people speak. In the video that Alex links to, they are only imitating the working class accent, but saying that the person sounds intelligent. They would not sound intelligent to ANY British people! Quite the opposite!  
Two people in Britain might grow up 500 metres (a few hundred yards) apart, and speak with completely different accents because they are from different types of backgrounds. One person will sound educated, intelligent and possibly posh. The other will sound like a blue collar worker. It's a very drastic difference.  
Apparently Americans, like the host in this show, can't tell the difference!  
If anyone is going to speak British English, then the best accent to imitate is that which you hear on BBC, or spoken by people like scientists.  
As an example, the character "Daphne" on Frasier, has a Northern working class accent. Yet Americans think she sounds "posh" and typically English. She definitely does NOT sound posh and her accent is typical only of Manchester.

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## rockzmom

> Americans don't seem to be able to distinguish the MASSIVE difference between how educated and non-educated British people speak. In the video that Alex links to, they are only imitating the working class accent, but saying that the person sounds intelligent.

 Hanna, Puleassssse... yes we can. It was a FUNNY bit. Americans just like the British or Australian sound, good or bad. You can have a person with a British accent in a commercial and us Americans will go out and buy the stupid product. Have the same commercial with an American from the deep South with a thick Southern drawl and the people up North will probably never buy the product because they will think THAT person is dumb as bricks. I've mentioned before that people in New York always thought less of our office here in Maryland because, we were IN Maryland (which to them is the "south" and a few of the employees had a touch of a southern accent). It didn't matter that our office had three people who passed a industry related senior exam certification and the New York office had none. We were the stupid ones.  
So, to Americans, just hearing a British/Australian accent makes them sound smart, doesn't matter how bad the accent is or well educated they might be or where they come from in the UK. We don't care.  
And most Americans of my generation or older do know of this video as well.

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## Hanna

Haha, to each his own!  
I guess it's along the same principles, that everyone believes that a slogan in English is much cooler than a slogan in Swedish/Norwegian/Danish...  
"I'm lovin' it!"

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## Doomer

Hanna you are too protective
The guy is a comedian and he makes fun of people and British accent sounds funny, even to some Russians including myself  :: 
The way he imitated Russian accent was funny too "just add 'y' between any two letters an you got it" but I can tell you that he's wrong by the same way he's wrong about British accent. I can tell a difference between imitated Russian accent and real Russian accent in at least 50% of occurances.
But the way he said it was funny - admit it  ::

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## alexB

*
Hanna*
Well, of course it’s up to you to decide if the clip is funny or not.
I just thought it had a straightforward answer to your question, had it not? 
“Here in America when it comes to the English we mistake accent with intellect.
We think they are all smart because no matter what they’re talking about they sound quite intelligent.”  
You said it yourself that according to Americans Daphne sounds posh, didn’t you?
The boy was meant to be smart, so they made him speak with a phony British accent.
And again, isn’t it funny already, even without him saying anything funny, for an American boy, whose parents are as American as apple pie, who having just barely been hatched is not supposed to talk at all, to talk with a British accent? I for one think it is.
You seem to be too serious talking of an unserious subject.

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## rockzmom

> I’m glad that you were glad. )
>  This one will hopefully make you even gladder. Scotish Irish English American Eleven How you say eleven - YouTube
> I didn’t make out everything the guys said (I wonder if you will) but they were hilarious anyway.

 Another winner Alex!!! You should start a thread of these!!!! Please!!! We do need to all just lighten up and laugh at ourselves (and others) and not be so politically correct all the time. At least with accents, we might be safe from really hurting someone's feelings??

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## Hanna

Alex, sorry my response was very grumpy and negative. There was no reason for me to go on a rant about that. It's not very important! And even if it was, one woman's rant about it is not going to change anything! Once again, sorry!   ::

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## alexB

*Jazz*,
you know, there’s no need to start the  new thread, you just try watching the British TV series *Only Fools and Horses*.  It’s like those blokes in a lift, only over and over again. I can’t say I totally get all the language, they say it’s Cockney,  let alone all the humor, but what little I do get is good enough to lure me into watching an occasional episode or two. I bet Hanna knows the series well. I wish I could have it on DVDs but it’s hardly feasible to get those with the English soundtrack.   *Hanna*, it’s okay. Sorry for making you sorry.  :: 
You mentioned Frasier the other day, does that mean you liked the show? It’s one of my favorite. Do you know that Kelsey Grammer staring as Dr. Frasier is the voice behind the Sideshow Bob from the Simpsons?

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## rockzmom

Has anyone watched the http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/index.html or read the book series Game of Throne  or the first book in the series titled Игра престолов_,_ Битва королей_,_ Буря мечей_,_ Пир стервятников by George R. R. Martin. ???  The tv series is up for 13 Emmy awards and the book series have won some awards as well.

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## translationsnmru

> Has anyone watched the http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/index.html or read the book series Game of Throne  or the first book in the series titled Игра престолов_,_ Битва королей_,_ Буря мечей_,_ Пир стервятников by George R. R. Martin. ???  The tv series is up for 13 Emmy awards and the book series have won some awards as well.

 I've read the all the books in the series (except for the one that has been published this year), but haven't watched any of the TV show episodes yet. I mean to, though. When I have time.

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## Doomer

> Has anyone watched the http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/index.html

 I did
I think it is awesome (definitely not for children though)
Can't wait to see next season 
The books are a little bit "too English" for me to understand completely  ::  But I hope I can enjoy them one day

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## it-ogo

I am a moderate fan of GRRM's "Game of Throne" saga an I am not going to watch any screen adaptation because I am afraid to be disappointed. I believe the saga is not filmable.

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## gRomoZeka

> I am a moderate fan of GRRM's "Game of Throne" saga an I am not going to watch any screen adaptation because I am afraid to be disappointed. I believe the saga is not filmable.

 I'm "a moderate fan" too (or at least I was years ago).  ::  I've seen only one episode of the TV series, and I could not watch any further (though I plan to do it later). I think it *could* have been impressive on screen, but some of the actors in current version are horribly miscasted. Especially John Snow. I'm afraid that he looks more like a teenage girl's dream, that a tough Notherman from the book.  ::   MV5BNDQ4MDEzMDE5OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTc0NTM0NQ@@._V1._SX640_SY427_.jpg 
 They also "aged" a few important characters without changing the plot. It makes some of their actions seem not so clever as they appear in the book (for example, little Bran was made 3 years older, but still acts and reacts like a 7 year old. Pity)
 Still, if you have not read the books you will almost certainly like it. Most people do. Go watch it!  ::

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## Hanna

Have never seen or heard about this one! Seems interesting, I'll check it out.

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## rockzmom

I had not heard of The Artist until word came out that it won The New York Film Critics Circle's Best Film Award and the director for Best Director.    

> The Artist (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia _The Artist is a 2011 French romance film directed by Michel Hazanavicius, starring Jean Dujardin and Bérénice Bejo. The story takes place in Hollywood between 1927 and 1932 and focuses on a declining male film star and a rising actress, as silent cinema grows out of fashion and is replaced by the talkies. The film is itself a silent film and in black-and-white. Dujardin won the Best Actor Award at the 2011 Cannes Film Festival, where the film premiered._

 It looks very good and interesting as it is silent...

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## CoffeeCup

Isn't the dog a fantastic actor? She perfectly predicts the guy's movements in this scene!  ::

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## rockzmom

I don't watch many TV series these days and when I do, I tend to end up watching them after they have aired... at my own pace. I had heard a lot of buzz about the new "Once Upon a Time" (by some of the people who wrote Lost yet I never saw a single episode of that one). I finally got to watch the pilot of Once Upon and enjoyed it very much so I watched some additional episodes. I must say it is a great change of pace from the usual medical / crime / law shows that are on. One of the more interesting things are the names for many characters are often coordinated with their fairy-tale counterpart.  
For example: Mary Margaret Blanchard (Snow White): Blanchard derives from the French word for white (blanc or blanche).Regina Mills (Evil Queen): Regina is a Late Latin feminine name meaning "Queen". Mills refers to the Greek word "Milo" meaning "apple" in modern Greek, which is in reference to the Queen poisoning Snow White with an apple.Mr. Gold (Rumpelstiltskin): Rumpelstiltskin spun straw into gold in his story.Ruby (Red Riding Hood): A ruby is a pink to blood-red colored gemstone.Ashley Boyd (Cinderella): Cinders precede ashes in the burning process. Boyd derives from the Gaelic word "buidhe" meaning yellow-haired.Mr. Glass (Mirror): Because another word for mirror is glass or looking glass. Also, his newspaper is called The Mirror.Archie Hopper (Jiminy Cricket): Crickets often hop to get around. Also, crickets are sometimes called hoppers.They also weave the fairy-tale story with modern-day and the fairy-tales are not the "Disney" ones that I grew up with. Rumpelstiltskin is amazingly played by Robert Carlyle. 
If you can watch Hulu... you can watch the videos online:  Once Upon a Time" (2011) - Episode list  
Here is the trailer

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## rockzmom

Another new show is a comedy called 2 Broke Girls and I caught about half an episode a few weeks back and finally got around to watching the pilot. The type of humor the show has is a real hit or miss with people, you are either gonna love it or hate it and it is also on the "raunchy" side.    

> "This comedy—which has made many TV critics Top 10 lists—is a taste test really. If raunchy and stereotypes aren't your thing, you will run away from it."

 The reason I am posting the clip that I am (couldn't find the full clip of it online so I uploaded one and it's a little bit longer so you could see a little bit more) is that the RUSSIANs are in this clip (at least you are not portrayed as Russian spies this time!) AND our ever popular "the" that we talk about here many times is also included. Finally, listen to the accents they have everyone use... Mr. Lee, Oleg the NY girls...  Watch Pilot Clip

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## translationsnmru

> I had heard a lot of buzz about the new "Once Upon a Time" (by some of the people who wrote Lost yet I never saw a single episode of that one). I finally got to watch the pilot of Once Upon and enjoyed it very much so I watched some additional episodes.

 Thanks for posting that. It sounds interesting, and I am definitely going to give it a try.   

> Another new show is a comedy called 2 Broke Girls and I caught about half an episode a few weeks back and finally got around to watching the pilot. The type of humor the show has is a real hit or miss with people, you are either gonna love it or hate it and it is also on the "raunchy" side.

 I watched the first two episodes soon after they were originally aired, and I neither liked nor hated it  :: . I guess it is just not my cup of tea. Maybe it would have grown up on me if I had continued watching it, as it happened with some other shows...

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## rockzmom

First time I've seen a video tribute to the year in movies! There are clips from 166 films, with 6 different songs in this sort of mashup. To see the complete list of clips and songs, click here 
Edit: CoffeeCup... I just noticed that one of the songs used is by Yeah Yeah Yeahs, the same group you posted about int he Music thread!!! I actually like all the songs the guy used in this clip! Best of both worlds for me  ::

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## rockzmom

Some of you know I have some health issues and I must say that going to a movie theater and watching a movie is something I sadly no longer enjoy because of these issues. However, I had promised my younger daughter that we would go and see Hugo when it came out and still it took us three weeks and I had to leave during part of it was it was in 3D and I just couldn't handle it. With all of that said... this movie was still worth every second of my feeling miserable.  
I posted back here that my daughter read the book _The Invention of Hugo Cabret_ when it first came out and as a girl who is NOT a reader, she was mesmerized by it. I also talked about how the book used the Georges Méliès film version of  “A Trip to the Moon” by Jules Verne. 
The movie of the book, Hugo, was made in 3D and directed by Martin Scorsese. From, the very start of the film, which forgoes the traditional opening credits, this film has a different feel than other  3D "children's" movies. (I looked online to see if I could find the opening segment and it's not posted anywhere. It's about 13 minutes long until you finally see the title of the film and then it goes right back into the film, no other credits.) It has a great story line and also teaches a little about the history of the film industry. I am most certainly going to watch this film again. I do recommend this one and if you can spare the money... to see it in 3D. 
This review probably says it better than I can Movie Review: HUGO 3D Is Joyous And Glorious| Badass Digest

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## Полуношник

Denny DeVito speaks Russian

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## rockzmom

> I had not heard of The Artist until word came out that it won The New York Film Critics Circle's Best Film Award and the director for Best Director.    
> It looks very good and interesting as it is silent...

 I was finally able to watch The Artist over the weekend and I can honestly say that it is everything the critics say it is and more. The film is like Hugo in that it transports you to another time and place and is not about blowing people or things up or special effects. It is first and foremost a story. The story is then told the old fashion way, through acting. They of course use music and props and are at times overly dramatic and they even cover that in the story line.  What I did not know was that in a few places you would actually hear the sound that is taking place in the movie. That was a great directorial decision.  
As there is not much dialogue in the film, I would expect it to be available in Russian very soon and even if you can't find a copy in Russian, you should be able to follow the story line very easily in English. I highly recommend this film, especially to folks who are "film" fans. If you studied film in school and were "forced" to watch silent movies, you will appreciate this even more. If you are a fan of the more modern films... ah... well, this one may not be your cup of tea then as no one gets killed and nothing gets blown up.

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## Lampada

*Starlet * Отличный фильм! Я думаю, что лучший фильм года.

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