# Forum Other Languages English for Russians - Изучаем английский язык Learn English - Грамматика, переводы, словарный запас  How do English natives recognize sex of Inet participants?

## mishau_

In Russian we can recognize sexes of internet forum visitors by names and nicks and also by the proper endings of verbs in the past tense and by the proper endings of ajectives. As for English forums, what bothers me a lot is that very often I can't recognize who I'm talking to, a woman or a man. So in what way do they usually find out wether they're talking to a girl or a guy?

----------


## gRomoZeka

That's the best thing about internet - anonymity. Sometimes I wish it was the same in runet.  ::

----------


## TATY

> So in what way do they usually find out wether they're talking to a girl or a guy?

 "So, by the way, are you a guy or a girl?" 
Simple.

----------


## mishau_

A direct question? That's a bit hard to understand.

----------


## charlestonian

> A direct question? That's a bit hard to understand.

 It's better to know from the beginning before it goes too far, esp. in chats.

----------


## Rtyom

Verbal behavior of men and women is always different.

----------


## mishau_

> Originally Posted by mishau_  A direct question? That's a bit hard to understand.   It's better to know from the beginning before it goes too far, esp. in chats.

 So I should ask all of the members, thats's kinda odd or?   ::

----------


## Indra

В русском тоже может быть такая проблема, тут вот моя любимая писательница рассказывает у себя на дайри - она играет в линейку, общается там в чате, и ей там сказали: "эх, жалко, что ты парень, а то бы я на тебе женился"  ::  при этом она никого сознательно в заблуждение не вводила  ::  ::

----------


## gRomoZeka

> It's better to know from the beginning before it goes too far, esp. in chats.

 Are you sure people will answer? I've seen quite a few English-speakers, who were very touchy about gender questions (who knows why). Can the asked user see it as a sexism?

----------


## charlestonian

> Originally Posted by charlestonian  It's better to know from the beginning before it goes too far, esp. in chats.   Are you sure people will answer? I've seen quite a few English-speakers, who were very touchy about gender questions (who knows why). Can the asked user see it as a sexism?

 Nope. Most people are pretty open about it. They don't want to be misled either.

----------


## Ramil

Sorry, couldn't resist:

----------


## charlestonian

> Sorry, couldn't resist:

 A good one!  ::   ::   ::

----------


## chaika

I have that problem until I switch to Russian and say something about myself in the past tense. 
У меня та же самая проблема пока не перехожу на русский и пишу что-то о себе в прошлом времени.

----------


## Ramil

> I have that problem until I switch to Russian and say something about myself in the past tense. 
> У меня та же самая проблема пока не перехожу на русский и пишу что-то о себе в прошлом времени.

 You must have picked your nick before you had learnt that chaika is feminine in Russian  ::

----------


## chaika

I won't tell Юрий Чайка you said that. 
Как бедный Юрий, Чайка - моя фамилия.

----------


## kalinka_vinnie

Why do you need to know the person's gender? If you need to say "him/her", just explain that you don't know the person's gender or make a guess. If they feel a need to correct you, then they will. Since it is a universal problem, they rarely get offended. Iamjames, for example doesn't seem offended that we mistake her for a guy all the time, does she?  ::

----------


## Ramil

> Why do you need to know the person's gender? If you need to say "him/her", just explain that you don't know the person's gender or make a guess. If they feel a need to correct you, then they will. Since it is a universal problem, they rarely get offended. Iamjames, for example doesn't seem offended that we mistake her for a guy all the time, does she?

 Your nick btw is also confusing to strangers  ::

----------


## kalinka_vinnie

Yeah, and for some reason people think that Vinnie can be a female name too... But I don't see the importance of knowing my gender... if one is confused and needs to know, a simple question will suffice   ::

----------


## charlestonian

> I won't tell Юрий Чайка you said that. 
> Как бедный Юрий, Чайка - моя фамилия.

 You ain't no Russian, are you?  ::

----------


## mishau_

Well, from what Russian linguists say, as Russian language requiters that each noun, each object have its own gender, we, Russian speakers, feel rather uncomfotable if we can't detect the gender or sex. Especially while speaking to a person. For English speakers, however, such a problem apparently matters less. Therefore, they communicate in a way that is different from ours. They start to chat with a preset idea that they do not know their new counterparts' sexes like we do not know about ages of new people who we start to chat with. So there's a behaviour pattern that can seem weird for us, but might be guite fine for English speakers. And I want to learn it.    

> Originally Posted by chaika  I won't tell Юрий Чайка you said that. 
> Как бедный Юрий, Чайка - моя фамилия.   You ain't no Russian, are you?

 Used to be?    

> Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie  Why do you need to know the person's gender? If you need to say "him/her", just explain that you don't know the person's gender or make a guess. If they feel a need to correct you, then they will. Since it is a universal problem, they rarely get offended. Iamjames, for example doesn't seem offended that we mistake her for a guy all the time, does she?    Your nick btw is also confusing to strangers

 Kalinka means small California (маленькая Калифорния)

----------


## DDT

> For English speakers, however, such a problem apparently matters less. Therefore, they communicate in a way that is different from ours. They start to chat with a preset idea that they do not know their new counterparts' sexes like we do not know about ages of new people who we start to chat with. So there's a behaviour pattern that can seem weird for us, but might be guite fine for English speakers. And I want to learn it.

 You should try "The Crocodile Dundee" method of telling the sex when talking to someone!!!

----------


## TATY

[quote=mishau_] 

> Originally Posted by "mishau_":2qi25ro8  A direct question? That's a bit hard to understand.   It's better to know from the beginning before it goes too far, esp. in chats.

 So I should ask all of the members, thats's kinda odd or?   :: [/quote:2qi25ro8] 
Do you really need to know? Does it matter?

----------


## kalinka_vinnie

> Well, from what Russian linguists say, as Russian language requires that each noun, each object has its own gender, we, Russian speakers, feel rather uncomfotable if we can't detect the gender or sex. Especially while speaking to a person. For English speakers, however, such a problem apparently matters less. Therefore, they communicate in a way that is different from ours. They start to chat with a preset idea that they do not know their new counterparts' gender like we do not know about ages of new people who we start to chat with. So there's a behaviour pattern that can seem weird for us, but might be quite fine for English speakers. And I want to learn it.

 Well, if you chat in Russian without using the past tense or describing yourself, you could get the same effect. But I see what you mean, I guess it does create a different cultural behavior pattern , and maybe explains some of the differences between Russia and the West?   

> Kalinka means small California (маленькая Калифорния)

 Really?   ::  First I have heard of that!   ::

----------


## Ramil

> Kalinka means small California (маленькая Калифорния)

 That's a novel approach  ::

----------


## Rtyom

> Originally Posted by chaika  I won't tell Юрий Чайка you said that. 
> Как бедный Юрий, Чайка - моя фамилия.   You ain't no Russian, are you?

 Did he mean his name is Seagull?

----------


## mishau_

> Well, from what Russian linguists say, as Russian language requires that each noun, each object has its own gender, we, Russian speakers, feel rather uncomfotable if we can't detect the gender or sex. Especially while speaking to a person. For English speakers, however, such a problem apparently matters less. Therefore, they communicate in a way that is different from ours. They start to chat with a preset idea that they do not know their new counterparts' gender like we do not know about ages of new people who we start to chat with. So there's a behaviour pattern that can seem weird for us, but might be quite fine for English speakers. And I want to learn it.

 has? Спасибо. Хотя, я вообще-то случайно пропустил should. Не люблю модальные глаголы.  - Russian requires that each noun, each object should have its own gender.  
Ну, тебе, кашна, виднее.    ::   
За очепятки тоже спасибо, у меня Firefox только по-русски умеет спелл-чекать.  Не получается 2 языка настроить.   ::

----------


## kalinka_vinnie

Можно так и так: 
Russian language requires that each object has a gender (лучше по-моему)
Russian language requires that each object should have a gender (можно)

----------


## charlestonian

> For English speakers, however, such a problem apparently matters less. Therefore, they communicate in a way that is different from ours. They start to chat with a preset idea that they do not know their new counterparts' sexes like we do not know about ages of new people who we start to chat with. So there's a behaviour pattern that can seem weird for us, but might be guite fine for English speakers. And I want to learn it.
> 			
> 		  You should try "The Crocodile Dundee" method of telling the sex when talking to someone!!!

 This is the best way  ::

----------


## mishau_

> Можно так и так: 
> Russian language requires that each object has a gender (лучше по-моему)
> Russian language requires that each object should have a gender (можно)

 Я очень часто встречаю конструкцию типа "justice requires that he be allowed to present his defense"  
be вместо is. очевидно could/should/would пропустили. Почему?

----------


## Ramil

Потому что английский юридический - это не нормальный английский. Там ещё не такие ужасы встречаются.

----------


## kalinka_vinnie

[quote=mishau_] 

> Можно так и так: 
> Russian language requires that each object has a gender (лучше по-моему)
> Russian language requires that each object should have a gender (можно)

 Я очень часто встречаю конструкцию типа "justice requires that he be allowed to present his defense"  
be вместо is. очевидно could/should/would пропустили. Почему?[/quote:27nlrffy] 
Потому что, это "future tense". он не сейчас защищается. А русский язык сейчас есть...   ::

----------


## TATY

[quote=kalinka_vinnie][quote="mishau_":35rfd0p2] 

> Можно так и так: 
> Russian language requires that each object has a gender (лучше по-моему)
> Russian language requires that each object should have a gender (можно)

 Я очень часто встречаю конструкцию типа "justice requires that he be allowed to present his defense"  
be вместо is. очевидно could/should/would пропустили. Почему?[/quote:35rfd0p2] 
Потому что, это "future tense". он не сейчас защищается. А русский язык сейчас есть...   :: [/quote:35rfd0p2] 
I don't think it's future tense, rather some kind of subjunctive.

----------


## chaika

My advanced educational background requires that I beg to differ with ya. After some verbs like "require" we use the subjunctive. Therefore,  
language requires that each object have a gender. 
This is correct grammar. Of course, undereducated persons will tromple all over the subjunctive mood, and I am на всё сто certain that you will find gazillions of trompled subjunctives on the net. The fact that you can only identify the subj. in the 3rd pers. sg. where it lacks the S does wonders to make certain we lose this mood soon. 
I have/I am
you have/you are
he/she/it has / is
we have /are
y'all have /are
they have /are 
that I have /be
that you have /be
that he/she/it have /be
that we have /be
that y'all have /be
that they have /be 
Unfortunately, even with all its irregularities, the first paradigm wins out in the ordinary speech of the lumpenproletariat.

----------


## mishau_

Ну значит я был где-то прав. Я позаимствовал эту форму из произведений про Перри Мейсона (американского адвоката). Думаю, язык, на котором адвокаты и прокуроры отстаивают свои позиции в суде нельзя отнести к разряду "lumpenproletariat"  ::

----------


## paulb

It is very common in English language internet forums for people to hide their sex. Many people think that only the words they type are important, not what sort of person they are. 
It is not easy to tell in a forum in English if the person is a man or a woman unless they make it clear. Sometimes in chat people will say "a/s/l?" That means they want to know: Age, Sex, and Location. Sometimes people will not respond to that though.

----------


## &lt;~A~&gt;

Another reason why is because in America theres a larger crime and murder rate than in Russia.....thats why most people don't like telling people on the internet what their gender is because if your a girl and tell a guy that is a murder.......one wrong mistake and tell to much about yourself....your dead.......they track you down and kill you....it's so dangerous that you have to be very aware of the people around you when your walking even anywhere alone or with a friend...it's on the news everyday that someone neither goes missing or is found dead somewhere..it's very sad..that's one of the reasons why I want to learn Russian and travel to Russia so me and my family can be safe....

----------


## Rtyom

> Another reason why is because in America theres a larger crime and murder rate than in Russia.....thats why most people don't like telling people on the internet what their gender is because if your a girl and tell a guy that is a murder.......one wrong mistake and tell to much about yourself....your dead.......they track you down and kill you....it's so dangerous that you have to be very aware of the people around you when your walking even anywhere alone or with a friend...it's on the news everyday that someone neither goes missing or is found dead somewhere..it's very sad..that's one of the reasons why I want to learn Russian and travel to Russia so me and my family can be safe....

 You're kidding, aren't you?   ::  What's up with all these murders? It feels like North America is the place of beyond where you are sentenced to get killed for no reason tomorrow. 
I think you're mistaken about Russia. Here you can have a blade under your ribs more often than a bullet in your head, and it happens as often as in America too.

----------


## doninphxaz

> After some verbs like "require" we use the subjunctive.

 Chaika is right about this.  The best version to my ear (if you actually want to use the word "require" and the conjunction "that") is 
The Russian language requires that each noun have a gender. 
That's what an educated native speaker might write.  But the subjunctive is dying out, and I expect most people would avoid it by rephrasing it somehow: 
In Russian each noun is required to have a gender 
In Russian each noun has to to have a gender
In Russian each noun has a gender 
The "has to have" form is the one that sounds most ordinary.

----------


## Ezri

> In Russian we can recognize sexes of internet forum visitors by names and nicks and also by the proper endings of verbs in the past tense and by the proper endings of ajectives. As for English forums, what bothers me a lot is that very often I can't recognize who I'm talking to, a woman or a man. So in what way do they usually find out wether they're talking to a girl or a guy?

 An interesting point.
Personally I find you can generally guess, but most of the time I will simply ask. It's nice to get the idea of a persons gender and general age and location, something humans have been used to knowing only since the advent of the WWW. 
By the way, I'm female, 35, Wales.   ::

----------


## Ezri

> Originally Posted by charlestonian  It's better to know from the beginning before it goes too far, esp. in chats.   Are you sure people will answer? I've seen quite a few English-speakers, who were very touchy about gender questions (who knows why). Can the asked user see it as a sexism?

 Ah, is it an english trait then? It used to be common to ask a/s/l? Ie, age/sex/location. But for some reason this quickly fell out of fashion and no one uses it anymore. personally i have no problem being asked and no desire to hide behind an opposite persona to retain annonimity. I really dont think anyone is out to get me.   ::

----------


## Ezri

> You're kidding, aren't you?   What's up with all these murders? It feels like North America is the place of beyond where you are sentenced to get killed for no reason tomorrow. 
> I think you're mistaken about Russia. Here you can have a blade under your ribs more often than a bullet in your head, and it happens as often as in America too.

 I have to agree. I know a woman who has traveled the world alone on her motorbike and encountered few problems. yet a person on even the most well trodden of tourist routes or on their own doorstep can become a victim of crime. 
To view another country as a utopia without crimes is dangerous and will be dissappointing. 
Statistically the best way to avoid crime is to remain in your own familiar country and live in a quiet area with a strong community spirit. But with the right attitude and a bit of luck there is no reason to avoid taking the risk for a good adventure.   ::

----------


## Rtyom

> By the way, I'm female, 35, Wales.

 Now North America is a forbidden place for you.   ::   ::

----------


## Grogs

> Originally Posted by mishau_  In Russian we can recognize sexes of internet forum visitors by names and nicks and also by the proper endings of verbs in the past tense and by the proper endings of ajectives. As for English forums, what bothers me a lot is that very often I can't recognize who I'm talking to, a woman or a man. So in what way do they usually find out wether they're talking to a girl or a guy?   An interesting point.
> Personally I find you can generally guess, but most of the time I will simply ask. It's nice to get the idea of a persons gender and general age and location, something humans have been used to knowing only since the advent of the WWW. 
> By the way, I'm female, 35, Wales.

 Well, I haven't been on the internet _quite_ that long   ::  but even when I started, most of the sites I visited tended to be filled with geeky guys, so if one of the posters was a girl, she tended to get *quite* a bit of attention.  Back when I used to play Everquest (an online Role Playing Game), my girlfriend always played male characters.  She said she just got bothered too much playing female characters.  Nowadays, I just assume everyone on the internet is a guy unless they tell me otherwise, or it's very obvious. 
And yeah, I imagine that Russia is similar to the US and most other countries when it comes to crime.  In the US at least, if you stay out of the bad neighborhoods and don't associate with criminals, your chances of being murdered are extremely small.

----------


## Zaya

> на все сто

   ::

----------


## Matroskin Kot

> Потому что английский юридический - это не нормальный английский. Там ещё не такие ужасы встречаются.

 Не только юридический, но, можно сказать, более формальный язык.  Но это тоже не обязательно -- я слышу такие конструкции время от времени даже в неформальной речи.  Это просто subjunctive. 
Хотя, всегда есть некоторые, кто неправильно используют "be", но это уже другой вопрос.  Это просто малограмматность.

----------


## gRomoZeka

> малограмотность.

 От слова "грамота", а не "грамматика".  ::  
Матроскин_кот, а ты давно учишь язык? У тебя неплохой слог.  ::  Хотелось бы мне так же хорошо говорить по-английски, как ты и многие другие здесь на форуме говорят по-русски...

----------


## Matroskin Kot

> Originally Posted by Matroskin Kot  малограмотность.   От слова "грамота", а не "грамматика".  
> Матроскин_кот, а ты давно учишь язык? У тебя неплохой слог.  Хотелось бы мне так же хорошо говорить по-английски, как ты и многие другие здесь на форуме говорят по-русски...

 Спасибо за поправку.  Это ирония какая-то.   ::   
Да, учу русский довольно давно -- 10 лет уже.  Я очень благодарен за комплимент.  Он ободряет.  Я часто нуждаюсь в ободрении потому что у меня практически не бывают возможности использовать язык, на учение которого я очень много пожертвовал.  К тому же, на данный момент я чувствую как от меня скользит умение в языке, особенно в устной речи.

----------


## Rtyom

[quote=Matroskin Kot] 

> Originally Posted by "Matroskin Kot":16yrxzab  малограмотность.   От слова "грамота", а не "грамматика".  
> Матроскин_кот, а ты давно учишь язык? У тебя неплохой слог.  Хотелось бы мне так же хорошо говорить по-английски, как ты и многие другие здесь на форуме говорят по-русски...

 Спасибо за поправку.  Это ирония какая-то.   ::   
Да, учу русский довольно давно -- 10 лет уже.  Я очень благодарен за комплимент.  Он ободряет.  Я часто нуждаюсь в ободрении, потому что у меня практически не бывают возможности использовать язык, на учение которого я очень много пожертвовал.  К тому же, в данный момент я чувствую как от меня ускользает умение говорить на русском. [/quote:16yrxzab] 
Эт ничего. Говоришь ты понятно.  ::

----------


## &lt;~A~&gt;

[quote] 

> You're kidding, aren't you?  :o What's up with all these murders? It feels like North America is the place of beyond where you are sentenced to get killed for no reason tomorrow. 
> I think you're mistaken about Russia. Here you can have a blade under your ribs more often than a bullet in your head, and it happens as often as in America too.

 
Is Russia really that bad??? :o

----------


## Ramil

[quote=<~A~>] 

> Originally Posted by <~A~>  You're kidding, aren't you?   What's up with all these murders? It feels like North America is the place of beyond where you are sentenced to get killed for no reason tomorrow. 
> I think you're mistaken about Russia. Here you can have a blade under your ribs more often than a bullet in your head, and it happens as often as in America too.   
> Is Russia really that bad???

 Not as quite bad as America but close  ::

----------


## &lt;~A~&gt;

Wow~So it's like that in Russia too then.....it seems like  North America is the worst Country their is...

----------


## Ezri

> Well, I haven't been on the internet _quite_ that long   .

 Hey neither have I.   ::  About 7 years for me and when I started the A/S/L question was already becoming 'unfashionable'. 
How sad your girlfriend had to play a man just to deflect unwanted attention. Thank heaven womens lib swiftly reached cyber space!   ::

----------


## Ezri

> Originally Posted by Ezri  By the way, I'm female, 35, Wales.     Now North America is a forbidden place for you.

 LOL. They couldnt catch me on my bike!   ::   ::

----------


## Ezri

> Wow~So it's like that in Russia too then.....it seems like  North America is the worst Country their is...

 It probably depends on which newspaper you read.   ::   ::   ::

----------


## DDT

> Another reason why is because in America theres a larger crime and murder rate than in Russia.....thats why most people don't like telling people on the internet what their gender is because if your a girl and tell a guy that is a murder.......one wrong mistake and tell to much about yourself....your dead.......they track you down and kill you....it's so dangerous that you have to be very aware of the people around you when your walking even anywhere alone or with a friend...it's on the news everyday that someone neither goes missing or is found dead somewhere..it's very sad..that's one of the reasons why I want to learn Russian and travel to Russia so me and my family can be safe....

 Actually, I read just recently, chart of the world's crime and murder rates. Russia was higher than USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map- ... r-rate.svg

----------


## gRomoZeka

> Actually, I read just recently, chart of the world's crime and murder rates. Russia was higher than USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map- ... r-rate.svg

 I don't completely agree. First, they made a note in this article: Homicide demographics are affected by the improvement of trauma care, leading to reduced lethality of violent assaults—*thus the homicide rate may also not necessarily indicate the overall level of societal violence*. 
Also, a couple of months ago I've read a report on violent crimes (I'm trying to find it again, but without any succes yet), and the Russia's murder rate (actual murders) was claimed to be rather high, but less than  in USA and Germany (I don't remember about other countries).
Does that mean they are lying in the wikipedia? Of course, not. 
But the difference in the results is caused by the approach, and usually all "unnatural" deaths are included in the murder rates, i.e. suicides, accidents victims, etc.  
And we know that healthcare system in Russia is not so good, and thousands of people are poisoned with cheap vodka every year, and die in autocrashes, etc., etc., and all this is added to the murder rate.   
It gives impression, that Russia swarms with bloodthirsty killers and is very dangerous, which is just not true, imho. Just another stereotype which came to life during the chaos of early 90s. 
PS. In the book "GENXPAT. The Young Professional’s Guide
to Making a Successful Life Abroad" (230 pages) the only phrase about Russia was: "_In a country like Russia, where the mafia is largely unchecked, you might have to ensure your personal safety with bodyguards and heavily secured accommodations_". Welcome!  ::

----------


## &lt;~A~&gt;

^+10 :D

----------


## Ramil

> Originally Posted by <~A~>  Wow~So it's like that in Russia too then.....it seems like  North America is the worst Country their is...   It probably depends on which newspaper you read.

  ::   ::  
I don't know whether it is a stereotype or not, but my impression about America is that there are too many maniacs around there, much much more than in any other country. It may be just the Russian news agencies but yes, I get this impression every time I hear about gunshots in universities, schools and offices, loose snipers, etc.
When I came to NY for the first time I was told not to enter certain districts and have a little cash with myself in case of a robbery (so that the robber doesn't get angry and kill you if you don't have any).
I don't now anything about actual crime rates, but generally, my stereotype is that there are very many crazy people in the US.

----------


## Ezri

> I don't know whether it is a stereotype or not, but my impression about America is that there are too many maniacs around there, much much more than in any other country. It may be just the Russian news agencies but yes, I get this impression every time I hear about gunshots in universities, schools and offices, loose snipers, etc.
> When I came to NY for the first time I was told not to enter certain districts and have a little cash with myself in case of a robbery (so that the robber doesn't get angry and kill you if you don't have any).
> I don't now anything about actual crime rates, but generally, my stereotype is that there are very many crazy people in the US.

 I take it you wernt attacked by a NY stereotype?   ::   
Thats the problem with stereotypes, they are invariably negative. 
Russia - vodka laced murderers.
US - rapists and drug pushers.
UK - drunks and knife wielding maniacs.
Most of the middle east - women haters.
Asia - serial killers and conmen.
Africa - lazy tribes with big knifes. 
Of course it's all interchangable and no where in the world is safe so really we should all be dead by now.   ::  
Of course we have to be cautious, mankind is a dangerous animal. But he no more dangerous just because he was born in another country and statistically you are more likely to be mugged, raped or murdered on your own doorstep than in unfamiliar territory.

----------


## Grogs

> Originally Posted by Ezri        Originally Posted by <~A~>  Wow~So it's like that in Russia too then.....it seems like  North America is the worst Country their is...   It probably depends on which newspaper you read.         
> I don't know whether it is a stereotype or not, but my impression about America is that there are too many maniacs around there, much much more than in any other country. It may be just the Russian news agencies but yes, I get this impression every time I hear about gunshots in universities, schools and offices, loose snipers, etc.
> When I came to NY for the first time I was told not to enter certain districts and have a little cash with myself in case of a robbery (so that the robber doesn't get angry and kill you if you don't have any).
> I don't now anything about actual crime rates, but generally, my stereotype is that there are very many crazy people in the US.

 Of course, it's a stereotype.  I was joking with one of my friends about the stereotype of a Russian worker the other day.  A stereotypical Russian worker would be building a nuclear bomb with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth and a bottle of vodka in his hand.   ::   
I don't think the US has more crazy people than any other country, it's just that our very loose gun laws allow our crazy people to do more harm.  For example, the Columbine or Virginia Tech shootings.  In a European country where guns are nearly impossible to come by, these incidents would have never happened.  If they had shown up with a knife, they would have been disarmed quickly and then they would have had the crap beaten out of them -- end of story, no massacre.  That said, though, that type of incident is still very, very rare.  I have never been the victim of a violent crime, not, to the best of my knowledge, have any of my friends.  I suspect that, like most countries, people who walk into the wrong neighborhood at night (or those that live there in the first place) account for a large percentage of the violent crimes.

----------


## DDT

You will be surprized when you look at at these. All is not as it seems. USA is not as bad as Australia in some things. Check the figures for rape and burglary.  http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_c ... per-capita http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... per-capita http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_r ... per-capita http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_a ... per-capita http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_b ... per-capita http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_c ... per-capita http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_r ... per-capita

----------

