# Forum Other Languages Slavic languages Ukrainian  Привіт всім

## Gogniat

Я б хотів сказати що я трошки знаю українську мову.  Якщо хтось тут хотів б листуватися українською мовою тоді скажіть мені. Літом я жив у Львові три місяці. На жаль  я  вже забуваю все що я вивчив.  Мій дід українець але ми рідко бачимося і я лиш маю декілька можливостеи розмовляти українською мовою.

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## Pravit

Привіт Gogniat 
Відкіля ти? И чому ти вивчаєш українську мову? Я теж трошки знаю цю мову. Може бути колись вівчу.

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Я вчуся у Нью Йорку. Літом я грав в регбі  у Львові. Крім того я маю українське походження.  Звідки ти знаєш українську мову? Чи ти студент російсьскої мови? Я теж трошки знаю російську, але ліпше розмовляю українською.

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## Pravit

Боже, больше писать на украинском не могу. А по-моему, ты довольно хорошо пишешь на украинском и наверное тоже на русском. Я не знаю украинский язык, просто у меня русско-украинский словарь есть, и пользуюсь им чтобы писать сообщении на ломаном украинском  ::  Да, можно сказать, я вроде бы "студент" русского языка.  
А где наш Новичок? Ведь это он хотел украинский форум, а теперь им не пользуется.

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Privit Kvitka!  ::  (Izvinni, ya ustal. Prosto shuchu) 
Ne perezhivai moi drug. Poslednee vremya ya mnogo rabotal. Kogda u menya budet vihodnoi, ya vernus'!  
I am glad that there are indeed some people that speak some degree of Ukrainian. Next week, I should have a lot more time to study Ukrainskij yazik.

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## Pravit

Ну як ти вивчаєш український, книгами що-ли? Ти якось був на Україне?

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## Евгения Белякова

Что такое "чи"?

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## Pravit

"Чи" что-то вроде "ли".

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## Евгения Белякова

понятно  ::

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## TATY

> Ну як ти вивчаєш український, книгами що-ли? Ти якось був на Україне?

 В Україне
and whats the difference between В Україне and В Українi

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## JJ

TATY, all ukrainians know the great ukrainian poet Taras Grigor'evich Shevchenko. He wrote exactly "на Вкраїні", look here http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/4747/shevch.html You can disturb Russian if you want but by Ukrainian rules it would be "на Украине". "В  Украине" sounds wierd like if I say to you"You live on London", I guess it clear what I mean but sentence is totally incorrect.

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## TATY

> TATY, all ukrainians know the great ukrainian poet Taras Grigor'evich Shevchenko. He wrote exactly "на Вкраїні", look here http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/4747/shevch.html You can disturb Russian if you want but by Ukrainian rules it would be "на Украине". "В  Украине" sounds wierd like if I say to you"You live on London", I guess it clear what I mean but sentence is totally incorrect.

 In my book Ukrainian A Complete Course for Beginners, it says says в Українi.

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## JJ

So, Taras Shevchenko lies to Ukrainians for about 160 years... BTW, in the most English-Russian dictionaries printed in Russia I don't know why but the word "canteen" means "столовая" - a dinner. Should I use it like you are useing the form "в Украине" and try to argue about with native speakers?

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## TATY

> So, Taras Shevchenko lies to Ukrainians for about 160 years... BTW, in the most English-Russian dictionaries printed in Russia I don't know why but the word "canteen" means "столовая" - a dinner. Should I use it like you are useing the form "в Украине" and try to argue about with native speakers?

 Taras Shevchenko wrote that ages and ages ago. Languages change. The fact that he used the alternate spelling of Ukraine reflects that. No-one writes Вкраїні anymore, even though it sounds the same as the regular spelling Україні. I was in a langauge shop, and looked in a different book and it definately said В.

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## JJ

I have no more reasonable arguments for you. You've saw some books with misspelling in the language shop and it is more convincing for you than naitive-speakers experience. Ok, go on studeing languages this way, but remember a good Russian proverb "на заборе написано "х#й", а  там дрова лежат".

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## TATY

> I have no more reasonable arguments for you. You've saw some books with misspelling in the language shop and it is more convincing for you than naitive-speakers experience. Ok, go on studeing languages this way, but remember a good Russian proverb "на заборе написано "х#й", а  там дрова лежат".

 I dont think two books by two different people will have the same mistake made consistantly through them.

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## waxwing

> BTW, in the most English-Russian dictionaries printed in Russia I don't know why but the word "canteen" means "столовая" - a dinner.

 You mean 'diner', I think.
But I don't get the point - what are you trying to say? Canteen does mean столовая, although canteen in this sense is a bit old fashioned ... but then again, I think столовая is a bit old fashioned too, right?
(Scratching head..)

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## Gogniat

Native speakers usually would not say на Вкраїні. Україна now a days is pretty much always Україна even if it is the first word of a sentence, unless the person writing something very literary, like Shevchenko was.  You can also say for prepositional case either на Україні or в Україні it doesn't really matter and you will hear both used by Ukrainian speakers, at least in Lviv. Some people think в Україні is better now that Ukraine is independent, but it's not that big of a deal what you say.

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## JJ

> But I don't get the point - what are you trying to say?

 The point is the same argumentation - "In my book Ukrainian A Complete Course for Beginners, it says в Українi."(TATY)/"The most English-Russian dictionaries in Russia say that canteen = столовая" (me). Both statements are right but they lead to the wrong conclusions "в Украине" is right/ Столовая means canteen.

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## waxwing

But, as I explained above, I believe canteen is not a bad translation for столовая .. you obviously disagree .. можно объяснить?

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## JJ

Waxwing but столовая is not an old-fashioned word, it is widely used now.

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## waxwing

Right. I can accept that. If I was American, I would agree that diner is a pretty good translation.
Here's the thing- canteen is very much an _institutional_ word, if you understand that. I think the main places that have canteens are schools and Universities. There is no small eating place on the street, a private business, that would call itself a "canteen". And I do know that in Russia that such places _do_ exist, so I think I understand your point. 
But, скажи, какая разница между "кафе" и "столовой"?

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## DenisM

> Right. I can accept that. If I was American, I would agree that diner is a pretty good translation.
> Here's the thing- canteen is very much an _institutional_ word, if you understand that. I think the main places that have canteens are schools and Universities. There is no small eating place on the street, a private business, that would call itself a "canteen". And I do know that in Russia that such places _do_ exist, so I think I understand your point. 
> But, скажи, какая разница между "кафе" и "столовой"?

 "кафе" - it's more like a small restaurant
"столовая" is _usually_ located at places where large number of people are learning, working etc and _usually_ have a fixed set of meals for each particular weekday. So it's like a "take it or leave it" kind of place. And столовая is _usually_ open for breakfast/lunch only unlike "кафе".

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## waxwing

Well yes, that's exactly as I remember it from the places I saw and ate in, and that was exactly the point I was trying to make. 
столовая has the connotation of _usually_ being an _institutional_ eatery - and that's exactly why IMHO canteen is the best translation despite its significant flaw that all of us have outlined (so I won't write it again..).
.. а JJ ещё не согласен?

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## Pravit

I speak AmE and I think "cafeteria" would probably be the best translation of it for us. A "cafeteria", in the strictest sense of the word, is a place that offerse one or two meals every day; you don't have much of a selection besides what they decide to cook that day. An example would be Luby's Cafeteria. But it is usually used to talk about a dining hall for a school or workplace. Although they both involve pushing a tray around and getting food, cafeterias and all-you-can-eat buffets are usually never mixed up; a place like Golden Corral might offer the exact same food every day, but a wide selection thereof. And although this isn't true for all cafeterias, most of them involve service people who give food to you, as opposed to buffets where you (usually) get the food yourself.

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## TATY

Anyways. I say В.

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## The_lamb

Привіт! Я б теж хотіла листуватися українською, та здаеться не дуже багато тут людей хто був би зацікавлен чи знав цю мову. Все ж таки буду сподіватися що хтось відгукнеться.

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