# Forum Other Languages Romance languages French  Vouvoiment

## mrbelod

Bonjour,
J'ai r

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## translationsnmru

> Bonjour,
> J'ai r?cemment commenc? ? apprendre le russe et j'adore cette langue.  J'ai constat? que le vouvoiment existe en russe comme en francais.  Quelqu'un connait-il les origines du vouvoiment chez mes amis les russes?

 Sorry for answering in English, but I can express myself much easier in English than in French (I can read French easily enough, but writing in it is a different thing). I hope that you, being a Canadian, will have no problems understanding a reply English  :: . 
Anyway, _vouvoiment_ came to Russia after Peter the Great's reforms, when foreign languages (including French) became fashionable amonge Russian nobles. Before that, people always used "ты" when addressing one person and "вы" when addressing 2 or more persons. A peasant would say "ты" to a tsar, and that wouldn't be considered impolite—it was the only possible form of address.  By the way, among lower classes. which were not affected by the foreign influence, this change took place much later.

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## mrbelod

> Originally Posted by mrbelod  Bonjour,
> J'ai r?cemment commenc? ? apprendre le russe et j'adore cette langue.  J'ai constat? que le vouvoiment existe en russe comme en francais.  Quelqu'un connait-il les origines du vouvoiment chez mes amis les russes?   Sorry for answering in English, but I can express myself much easier in English than in French (I can read French easily enough, but writing in it is a different thing). I hope that you, being a Canadian, will have no problems understanding a reply English . 
> Anyway, _vouvoiment_ came to Russia after Peter the Great's reforms, when foreign languages (including French) became fashionable amonge Russian nobles. Before that, people always used "ты" when addressing one person and "вы" when addressing 2 or more persons. A peasant would say "ты" to a tsar, and that wouldn't be considered impolite—it was the only possible form of address.  By the way, among lower classes. which were not affected by the foreign influence, this change took place much later.

 Спасибо за это очень детальное объяснение (corrigez mon russe si n

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## Pravit

> Anyway, _vouvoiment_ came to Russia after Peter the Great's reforms, when foreign languages (including French) became fashionable amonge Russian nobles. Before that, people always used "ты" when addressing one person and "вы" when addressing 2 or more persons. A peasant would say "ты" to a tsar, and that wouldn't be considered impolite—it was the only possible form of address.  By the way, among lower classes. which were not affected by the foreign influence, this change took place much later.

   ::  Wow! I never knew that! I'll file it in to the other stuff I've learned while browsing this forum.  
Now, excuse my French, but this is indeed the French forum, and I'd like to practice. I'm too lazy to type accents over letters. 
A propos, est-ce qu'on vouvoyait toujours au francais, ou y-a-t'il une histoire sembable?

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## mrbelod

> Wow! I never knew that! I'll file it in to the other stuff I've learned while browsing this forum.  
> Now, excuse my French, but this is indeed the French forum, and I'd like to practice. I'm too lazy to type accents over letters. 
> A propos, est-ce qu'on vouvoyait toujours au francais, ou y-a-t'il une histoire sembable?

 Oui le vouvoiment existe toujours en francais.  Il est plus pr

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## translationsnmru

Thanks for your reply, but I think Pravit used "toujours" in the sense of "always": he wanted to ask if people always said "vous" in French.  ::  
Pravit, I don't know the answer, but I know that this usage existed in French as early as XV century. You can find examples of it in Francois Villon's poems.

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## translationsnmru

Just found this: 
"Dame, je vos en cri merci." (Tristan et Iseut by Beroul,  XII century) 
Another one, earlier still: 
" A tant i vint la reine Bramimunde.
«Jo vos aim mult, sire,» dist ele al cunte,   " 
XI century!

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## Jasper May

Excuse me? Ele dist that to whom?  ::

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## translationsnmru

> Excuse me? Ele dist that to whom?

 Honni soit qui mal y panse!  :P  
To count  ::

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## monichka

Hello, 
I am from Mexico City and we also have in Spanish "le vouvoiment" it is a very important matter, because it might be very unpolite if you don

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## Артемида

> Anyway, _vouvoiment_ came to Russia after Peter the Great's reforms

 ....cette information n'est pas correcte.....les russes ont commenc&eacute; utiliser "vous" m&ecirc;me encore en 11&egrave;me siecle, la grece avait une grande influence &agrave; Russie et en Grece on deja utilisait "vous" en ce temps, et les russes ont desid&eacute; r&eacute;p&eacute;ter apres eux  ::

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## translationsnmru

[quote=Артемида] 

> Anyway, _vouvoiment_ came to Russia after Peter the Great's reforms

 ....cette information n'est pas correcte.....les russes ont commenc&eacute; utiliser "vous" m&ecirc;me encore en 11&egrave;me siecle, la grece avait une grande influence &agrave; Russie et en Grece on deja utilisait "vous" en ce temps, et les russes ont desid&eacute; r&eacute;p&eacute;ter apres eux  :: [/quote:5p0ylqp1] 
Very interesting piece of info if it is correct. Can you provide any facts to support this statement?

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## Артемида

> Very interesting piece of info if it is correct. Can you provide any facts to support this statement?

 malheuresement je ne peux pas donner les sites ou l'autre information confirmant mon message...tu es oblige de me croire car j'ai entendu cela a la radio...

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## translationsnmru

[quote=Артемида] 

> Very interesting piece of info if it is correct. Can you provide any facts to support this statement?

 malheuresement je ne peux pas donner les sites ou l'autre information confirmant mon message...tu es oblige de me croire car j'ai entendu cela a la radio...[/quote:1sxo9lsw] 
I am afraid that is not good enough for me, since I heard a lot of blatantly incorrect info on the radio. It is a fact that in many historical documents (letters and reports) I read people _tutoyent_ their addressees, including the tsar. Of course, it is still possible that vouvoiment occured from time to time, but it wasn't widely spread.

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## brett

C'est theme forum il est tres interessant pour moi.J'ai denine toujour que le vouvoiment etais parce que le riche et puissant utilisaient 'tu' a la paysan, et la paysan dois utiliser 'vous' a la riche.Mes amis francais me ont dit que 'tu' est l'un utiliser avec tout les jeunes.J'amene sense a la commun quand est-ce que je recontre quelque'un.Si que il semble amiable et flexible, j'utilise 'tu'.Comme loin, comme bien.Je ne suis pas une fervent de vousvoiment, a moins que il'est un situation cultural ou les deux personne ont l'esprit d'egalite.
Un question a cote; dans mon sentence premiere, est-il en neccesite ou non, que j'ai le 'il' a
"C'est theme forum il est tres interessant pour moi."

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## Ludovic

> C'est theme forum il est tres interessant pour moi.J'ai denine toujour que le vouvoiment etais parce que le riche et puissant utilisaient 'tu' a la paysan, et la paysan dois utiliser 'vous' a la riche.Mes amis francais me ont dit que 'tu' est l'un utiliser avec tout les jeunes.J'amene sense a la commun quand est-ce que je recontre quelque'un.Si que il semble amiable et flexible, j'utilise 'tu'.Comme loin, comme bien.Je ne suis pas une fervent de vousvoiment, a moins que il'est un situation cultural ou les deux personne ont l'esprit d'egalite.
> Un question a cote; dans mon sentence premiere, est-il en neccesite ou non, que j'ai le 'il' a
> "C'est theme forum il est tres interessant pour moi."

 Salut Brett,
Il conviendrait mieux de dire : 
Le th

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