# Forum About Russia Culture and History  drinking

## BJ

Is there an age at which it is legal to drink in Russia? Does it vary according to where you are drinking? House, restaurant etc?

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## Старик

It's the same in Russia as in any other country:
If babies don't drink beginning at the first day of their life they will die.
Therefore the minimum age at which it is legal to drink is zero.

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## translationsnmru

> Is there an age at which it is legal to drink in Russia? Does it vary according to where you are drinking? House, restaurant etc?

 Unless they have changed something recently, it is 18, at least you can't buy alcohol legally until you are 18. Of course, most kids  get to know the taste of alcohol much earlier than that. I don't think that drinking at home is considered a criminal offence for a kid, but if authorities find out that an adult gives or sells alcohol to minors or enourages them to drink, he may have serious problems.

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## BJ

Ha ha Old Man!  ::  
I wonder why Georgia has no age restriction on alcohol consumption. Does anyone know why they decided this after the split?

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## JB

Beer is not considerd alcohol and kids can but it at any kiosk or magazine. The beer companies are now fighting a new bill that will outlaw beer comercials on TV between 0700-2200, and any beer advertising on sports events. The beer consumption for teens is rising and the lawmakers think limiting advertising will stop this trend.

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## astarz41

I think in reality you can pretty much buy alcohol at any age. 12 year olds can probably get it at a kiosk where the seller only cares about selling the product. Hey, I used to go out to the store and get bread, juice and a pack of cigarettes for my grandpa and no one said a word and I was like 10. And if you at least look remotly old enough you can get it at cafes and restaurants. I did and I wasn't 18....   ::   Alot of kids usually get a sip of champagne at New Years or other celebrations. It's not really a big deal as far as I remember.

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## translationsnmru

> I think in reality you can pretty much buy alcohol at any age. 12 year olds can probably get it at a kiosk where the seller only cares about selling the product. Hey, I used to go out to the store and get bread, juice and a pack of cigarettes for my grandpa and no one said a word and I was like 10. And if you at least look remotly old enough you can get it at cafes and restaurants. I did and I wasn't 18....    Alot of kids usually get a sip of champagne at New Years or other celebrations. It's not really a big deal as far as I remember.

 That's right, and it's always been like this. Long ago, when I was a schoolboy during  Brezhnev's rule, I bought my first bottle of wine at 16, I think. Or was it 15?

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## 44 Canon

LOL. You guys are thilly.
 So, how does the average Russian 12 year old act after homework every night?: 
"I....can't...make..it...toooo.....myy...BEER!....  ............BRRING..it....to..MEEEEeeeeee!"

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## JB

I frequently see groups of 12 year olds on the street or in the parks drinking beer and smoking. I don't think they are too worried about their homework.

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## Tambakis

Then thats not too different than in the US. If you know where to go, you can get alcohol and cigarettes. Some places still have those old cigarette machines. Anyone can go up and get some. I don't think you'll see a group of twelve-year-olds drinking and smoking on the street. And I'm pretty sure they won't let a 12-yr-old buy a beer ( I could be wrong, in fact I probably am wrong) but, in 8th-9th grade I heard of certain places that would sell to kids.

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## smithnweson

no one sells to 12 year olds, I'm in my 20's and I still get carded, we are very strict over here.

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## Dogboy182

my friend just turned 18, he started buying ciggs just so he could get carded.... but no one has carded him yet.

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## DDT

I have lived in several countries and I would have to say that the US is the most uptight about cigarrettes and alcohol that I have come accross. I grew up in Australia and by the time I was 16 I was having a beer in the local pubs with everyone else. By the time I was 15 I had finnished school and had a job, on a cattle station. And so was most of the kids who I went to school with. Over here if you are 15 or 16 and not in school they call you a drop-out and think you are a "runnaway". And heaven forbid if you have a drink and you are under 21, Oh.. call the SWAT team....get the womenfolk off the streets and close the curtains.

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## Bratan_usa

do russian people like to drink:  ice tea, or sweetened tea???

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## JB

hot tea, lots of sugar, lemon slices in sugar, or honey and lemon for a sore throat

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## JB

ooops! forgot about hot tea with jam  ::

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## TiaraNEug

JB, Where in L.A. do you live?!? Unless you were talking about in Russia....I have -sadly- lived in L.A. almost all my life and I have yet to see 12 year olds drinking and smoking in parking lots...Not even in Compton...Unless you were joking...in which case I take the whole first half of this post back. 
Part of the reason why we are so strict over here is because people are stupid. More often than not, people don't drink responsibly. We have these laws because we messed things up from the gate. We had more freedom, and people pissed all over it. In other countries it isn't such a big deal to be ridiculously drunk all the time-other cultures handle themselves better.

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## BJ

JB, does it matter what type of jam?

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## луговой лютик

> JB, does it matter what type of jam?

 I can tell you that it's mostly raspberry jam

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## JB

Jam: in the summer we pick lots of different berries (can't remember the Russian names but have never seen these in America)from the dacha and make fresh (not cooked) jam with just sugar. We also have jumbo jars of смородина (cooked) jam which our uncle makes by the truckload every summer. We like rasberry jam in our tea but never buy it as we are inundated with the homemade jam, which is also delicious in tea (and over ice cream, over fresh fruit, and just plain spoonfuls for desert!) 
Tiara, When in The US, I live near San Marino where alchohol is not even legal in the restaurants much less on the street. But when I am in Moscow I, along with everyone else, enjoy having a beer or wine cooler while strolling through the park on a warm summer day. But this may soon come to an end. Yesterday, in Russian news, I saw that a new law is being proposed that will outlaw drinking beer in public. This includes metros, parks, sidewlks etc.  The article did not address if this would apply to all the little drink stands with a sitting area in the parks.  ::

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## TiaraNEug

Did they say why? And is this all of Russia, or certain places? I would assume the whole country, right? That is unfortunate since I have not made it to Russia yet and have not been able to experience drinking in the park like this...  ::

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## JB

These new laws will apply to the whole country, but I have no idea if they will be enforced outside of the major cities. A new law was just passed that makes it illegal to show beer commercials on tv between 7am -10pm and part 2 of the law will restrict what is depicted in beer commercials. This is all being done by the government to combat the rise in teenage drinking and problems related to alchohol. 
But I don't know how the public will react when the weather warms and we can't relax with a beer on the park bench. Even if the sale and consumption of beer in the outdoor cafes is allowed, I think the majority of the people will be angry. Beer and food at those cafes is 2-3X the price in the stores and many people bring their own beer and a picnic to enjoy on a blanket under a tree.

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## TiaraNEug

> A new law was just passed that makes it illegal to show beer commercials on tv between 7am -10pm and part 2 of the law will restrict what is depicted in beer commercials. This is all being done by the government to combat the rise in teenage drinking and problems related to alchohol.

 Wow. Things aren't even that insane here. Restricting commercials? Come on now. 
Isn't there a possibility of teen drinking getting worse with all these new laws? I know underage drinkers who do it simply because they are not supposed to. As soon as you tell someone 'you absolutely cannot do this.' What do you think is going to happen? Some decisions aren't very well thought out by governments-including our own. As far as the law goes, what happens to people who get caught or don't follow them? Like, what is/are the punishment(s)?

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## JB

The proposed law on drinking in public is still a proposal, so far no idea on what penalty will be. As far as the tv ads go the tv stations are pretty careful not to violate the law and risk getting shut down. 
And I can't imagine how these laws will curb underage drinking. So far there doesn't seem to be any enforcement of a legal drinking age and hey, it's Russia. It's not easy to make a living and who's going to ask for ID if there are no serious penalties for selling to underage customers? Some parents send their kids to the corner store to get bread and a bottle of beer for dinner, so it's not unusual like it would be here. When I was in the Far East we'd send the kids down to the corner beer kiosk with a few rubles and a big jar to get fresh beer for lunch.

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## VendingMachine

> hot tea, lots of sugar, lemon slices in sugar, or honey and lemon for a sore throat

 There we go again - your ignorance is sure compensated by your imagination. "Russian tea" - tea with lemon - is a stupid Western stereotype - I've never seen anyone drink their tea with "lemon slices in sugar". Most people don't put any sugar in their tea - what the hell for, it spoils the taste. It's you, crazy Westerners, who wear your teeth on your key chain, it's you, who drink your tea with sugar.

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## VendingMachine

> Yesterday, in Russian news, I saw that a new law is being proposed that will outlaw drinking beer in public. This includes metros, parks, sidewlks etc.

 It is and has always been illegal to drink (just about anything, including juices unless you're sipping it throw a straw) on the metro, so they can't possibly be passing a law on that cos it's already there. Get your facts straight.  
P.S. I'll be keeping an eye on you, JB, and exposing your every lying attempt.

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## scotcher

Have you come off your medication too early again VM?

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## VendingMachine

> When I was in the Far East we'd send the kids down to the corner beer kiosk with a few rubles and a big jar to get fresh beer for lunch.

 Thereby setting us all an excellent example in parenting. Bravo, JB, encore!

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## JB

Well VM I guess when I was in St. Petersburg I should have taken you up on that "charming" invitation you sent to my message box (darn I can't find the barfing smiley). We could have gone to tea so you could demonstrate for me how Russians don't put sugar (or sweetened lemons) in their tea.  ::  
Now if you can just convince all of my Russian relatives and guests to stop pouring so much sugar in their tea I could save a few rubles and have more room in my pantry!
And I don't remember seeing people drinking beer on the St Peterburg metro but in Moscow it is a daily ritual (along with riders kicking the empty bottles that roll around the car).
And as for parenting, I don't tell people of other cultures how to raise their kids in their own country.

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## VendingMachine

> ...and hey, it's Russia

 I've got a feeling you're trying to insinuate something...   

> And as for parenting, I don't tell people of other cultures how to raise their kids in their own country

 Course you don't - show me an idiot who'd listen to a cowgirl. You _are_ a cowgirl, aren't you? (Don't disappoint me, I'm counting on your being a cowgirl.) 
You know, the first time I saw Americans drink tea I almost fainted - the amount of sugar your people put in their tea is unbelievable. But then, most Americans die of cardiovascular deseases...

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## DDT

You should see how much sugar Itatians shovel into one shot of esspresso on their noon break!

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## JB

Of course I'm a cowgirl  ::   http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/ ... -11NOV.jpg

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## DDT

I hope that is'nt rubber you have wrapped on your horn there JB.

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## JB

rubber?

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## DDT

Oh, I thought  you would know! Cowboys across America started taking rubber from an old innertube and wrapping strips around the horns on their saddles, years and years ago. This gives their ropes (lariets) grip just like rodeo cowboys and team ropers. 
However this practice is severely frowned upon in buckaroo circles in Northern Califonia, Oregon, Nevada and Southern Idaho. These places hold to the original Spanish tradition of doing things and would never put rubber on their saddle horns. To do so would be a disgrace. Many times I have seen and heard a "buckaroo boss" tell some new guy, who is about to throw his saddle on a horse, "Before you ride for this outfit you had better cut the rubber of that horn". I even worked for a guy that made us all cut our back cinchas off too. Our horns are wrapped with "mule hide", it is really just crome tanned and split cowhide. It is white or grey, perhaps it is on your saddle in the photo, it is hard to see. Since it looks like you are carrying what looks to be a short, braided rawhide reata it should be safe to assume that you do not have a rubber wrapped horn. If you did, that reata would probably break the first time you roped a cow with it. 
   Anyway I am glad to see that you have the good sense and judgement to be a cowgirl!  And a very pretty one too, I might add!

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## JB

The saddle is an antique working saddle that was retired many years ago and brought out only for shows. All the appointments, including my dress, are exact reproductions of the rodeo equipment of a 1912 cowgirl. I was riding in the Salinas Rodeo with 3 friends (a matched group of 4). The only problem was matching the horses.  The rodeo lasts 4 days and even though our horses matched on the 1st day, every day one of us had to get a new mount. The combination of screaming crowds, balloons and cannon fire (don't ask) was hard on the poor pony's nerves!

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## VendingMachine

> Of course I'm a cowgirl   http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/ ... -11NOV.jpg

 Thanks for the photo, JB. Could you clear something up for me, please? That graceful creature in the foreground is a horse and the big fat boletus growing on its back and trying to look like a person wearing a hat is you, right? Or is it the other way round? From what I've heard horses are lovely critters...

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## JB

No silly, I'm the horse.  ::

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## TiaraNEug

::  I leave for a weekend and this thread is no longer about drinking, but rather...horses. Nice.  ::

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## JB

We can go back to drinking. But then it's always so tempting to follow VM off topic. 
 Well here's how to make those sweet lemon slices that nobody in Russia really has with tea.......
Slice a whole lemon into very thin circles, then layer the slices with lots sugar in a glass jar or covered dish. Put in the fridge and after 2 days or so the lemon juice melts the sugar and makes a syrup. You can add sugar every day until the syrup is thick and the sugar no longer melts. Serve the slices in the syrup with tea.

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## VendingMachine

Vomitization... Why put anything in your tea? How can you enjoy the taste of your darjeeling (insert your favourite kind of brew here) if it's been interfered with in the most ghastly of fasions?

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## DDT

Well I dare say, I have heard older refined ladies and gentlemen, who were English, remark, "that it is "uncivillized" for one to drink their tea without milk and only barbarians would do so"..........That's why I drink my tea with a whole cow full of milk and two spades full of sugar, mate. Sos' no one will suspect my convict ancestors.

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## VendingMachine

> Well I dare say, I have heard older refined ladies and gentlemen, who were English, remark, "that it is "uncivillized" for one to drink their tea without milk and only barbarians would do so"..........That's why I drink my tea with a whole cow full of milk and two spades full of sugar, mate. Sos' no one will suspect my convict ancestors.

 A chap can learn to talk posh, but a chap can never fully disguise his barbarian tea drinking habit. All right, old boy? Or should I say _mite_?

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## translationsnmru

Granted, our VM's behaviour on this boards is often just trolling, pure and simple, but still there are some points on which I totally agree with him, and this sugar in tea issue is one of them. Sugar kills the tea, period!   ::

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## bad manners

Sugar kills anything. It also kills the taste of bad tea. So does milk. And lemon. If for whatever reason someone wants to drink bad tea, then the taste has to be obfuscated with sugar, milk, lemon, you name it. (Isn't it easier not to add bad tea to that mix in the first place? I always wonder.) 
The taste of good tea needn't be obfuscated. But if one is accustomed to drinking bad tea (which includes all those disgusting sugar/milk/lemon chores), that will manifest itself even with good tea. In fact, that person will not even be able to tell good tea from bad tea.

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## scotcher

You people sure do take your tea-drinking seriously.

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## JB

These arguments all sound quite Brittish to me. In America we are serious about coffee!

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## bad manners

> These arguments all sound quite Brittish to me. In America we are serious about coffee!

 How can you be serious about something you've never tasted?

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## JB

I've never tasted? Please explain. Perhaps coffee is grown where you live?

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## Dogboy182

How can you be serious about something that sucks ?(tea)

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## DDT

> I've never tasted? Please explain. Perhaps coffee is grown where you live?

 I think BadManners is referring to the weak coffee that Americans drink.

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## VendingMachine

> These arguments all sound quite Brittish to me. In America we are serious about coffee!

 Coffee? You don't drink coffee, you drink liquid mud. 
P.S. JB, I'm inviting you to go for a cuppa. If you ever happen to be passing through St Pete, I'd really like to meet up with you and give you a little introduction into our superior tea drinking practice, for it appears you have been grossly misinformed about Russia and its people.

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## JB

Good Heavens! VM,exactly where were you drinking coffee in the US? Hopefully not one of those HWY 66 greasy spoons! 
As for the tea party, once again I will ignore your invitations.  ::

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## VendingMachine

> Good Heavens! VM,exactly where were you drinking coffee in the US?

 In the most reputable of American households.   

> As for the tea party, once again I will ignore your invitations.

 Did you really think I was inviting you in earnest? I was meerly paying tribute to formality. God, how little you actually know about Russia... Remember this - an invitation from a Russian expressed in that kind of form is not an invitation, but a warning that you should stay away from him. Ignorant cowgirl, you.

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## Kamion

> Coffee? You don't drink coffee, you drink liquid mud.

 prejudice and sweeping statements by *the* anti-prejudice pleader. Double standard?

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## JB

Exactly where is the location of and who occupies this "reputable American household?"

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## bad manners

JB, would you describe the basic ingredients, processes and equipment that are used in the US to make what you call "coffee"?

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## TiaraNEug

How come it can't be that Americans make coffee one way and that's the way some people like it, and other countries, cultures, etc. make their coffee a different way and that's the way they like it?

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## joysof

Because, Tiara, the harmony of compromise does not for entertainment make.

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## bad manners

Here is an example: I can take an apple and then "make it" by doing nothing and then eat it. If the apple was good, I am going to enjoy it. Now, I can take an apple and "make it" by chopping it into oblivion and then mixing it with shit -- no, I am not going to eat that. I am not going to eat that even if it was originally good. I am not going to eat that even if you add a pound of sugar and put _that_ in a half-gallon container "to go".

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## JB

Apples? Interesting analogy  ::  .
As for coffee in America the ingredients and preparation depend on what kind of coffee you want to drink. Also depends on what part of the country and what ethnic neighborhood you are in. People from all over the world live here and they brought their coffee habits with them.
So there is no such thing as "American" coffee. If you don't like a cup of coffee at one cafe, go to another. In Los Angeles we have the choice of French, Armenian, Turkish, Greek, South American, Cuban, Mexican, Russian, German, etc, all on the same street! The people who brew these coffees are doing it exactly as they did in their home country and they are 100% American. So which type of coffee do you want to know about?

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## TiaraNEug

Forgive me, Joysof, as I am still new around here.   ::  
Part of me has to agree with JB. I live in LA too, and he's tellin the truth. Though, I really can't stand the taste of coffee period, so my opinion may not be very valid at this point. I shall sit back, remain quiet, and let you guys duke it out. May the best man come to his senses and realize how ridiculous this debate is...

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## DDT

American coffee can still be found in every cafe in small town America, starting with Stans Dough-nuts in Westwood, California, to Cape Cod. And especially on route 66. You've just got to get out of those big cities you are in, they are only a fraction of America. There are still plenty of places that serve their coffee to you whether you want it or not and have the waitress come around every 3 minutes with a pot, to keep your cup full. Yep, still places left where the waitress will probably have a half smoked cigarette hanging out of her mouth as she pours your coffee, too!! You gotta love that American custom of the bottomless cup of coffee. Maybe they don't drink their coffee very strong in America, but they sure do drink a lot of it. From 5 in the morning untill they go to bed at night. Burn in hell Starbucks!

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## JB

best French coffee in Los Angeles can be found in Westwood, little French bakery near UCLA (fresh, dark, strong coffee with cream) 
P.S.  Tiara, я она   ::  .

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## TiaraNEug

Извините, JB. You know, I think I knew that. I don't know why I wrote that.   ::  
I still don't like coffee though.   ::  But are you talking about the Champaigne Bakery?

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## VendingMachine

JB, just don't go telling us that French coffee brewed in LA tastes the same as in France. Tasted both myself. Nothing in common.

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## DDT

> JB, just don't go telling us that French coffee brewed in LA tastes the same as in France. Tasted both myself. Nothing in common.

 Interesting point. If this French cafe JB is talking about is anything like the other cafes in Westwood, I can only assume that their coffee is not the same as real Fench coffee. When the first of the coffee shops opened up in Westwood I was excited thinking that I would then finally be able to get a capuccino. Not so! They don't know how to make one. Oh, they will swear that they make them but what they think is a capuccino is not worth drinking. I think I may have actually had a good one in New York once but that's it. I don't even ask for them anymore.
    But to be fair to the lovely cowgirl, I don't know of this French Cafe..........But I do know that you can get a good shot of Makers Mark Whisky at The Hamlet Gardens.

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## VendingMachine

> But I do know that you can get a good shot of Makers Mark Whisky at The Hamlet Gardens.

 Well, I wouldn't know anything about _that_ - I've been teatotal all my life. Let the alc... erm... experts decide.

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## JB

Can't remember the name of the bakery, it is on the corner of Gayley Ave at the entrance to UCLA parking lot 32.
Does the coffee taste the same as in France? I haven't been to France but the family that owns the cafe (and prepares all the food) is from France and claims their food is the same as in France.
DDT, you had coffee in ALL the cafes and resturants in Westwood? Wow! That must have taken you a long time! I gather you were a student at UCLA?

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## bad manners

> Apples? Interesting analogy  .
> As for coffee in America the ingredients and preparation depend on what kind of coffee you want to drink. Also depends on what part of the country and what ethnic neighborhood you are in. People from all over the world live here and they brought their coffee habits with them.
> So there is no such thing as "American" coffee. If you don't like a cup of coffee at one cafe, go to another. In Los Angeles we have the choice of French, Armenian, Turkish, Greek, South American, Cuban, Mexican, Russian, German, etc, all on the same street! The people who brew these coffees are doing it exactly as they did in their home country and they are 100% American. So which type of coffee do you want to know about?

 There is just one "coffee" that is 100% American. And this is what I've been talking about. This is the liquid that you consume at home, usually at breakfast. Or it is what you grab on your way to work. The liquid that is served at "OK" restaurants at lunch time has about the same quality. So, would you describe what it takes to "make" that liquid?

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## DDT

No JB, I did not even realise that UCLA was in Westwood when I first lived there. It began to dawn on me, what kind of neighorhood I had moved into, about the time people would stand on their balconies at midnight (every night) and howl at the moon. And yes I had coffee everywhere there. I was  well known  there by locals.

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## JB

Sorry to disappoint you bad manners, but there is not "just one" coffee or type of coffee served in American homes. If you didn't like the coffee you were served you should have driven to one of the many coffee specialty stands or cafes and bought what you wanted. Or you could have gone to the local department store or gourmet cooking store and bought the machine that would brew what you wanted and make the coffee yourself. Don't know where to find your favorite ingredients? Get on the phone (or web) and look up thousands of stores where you can buy exactly what you want. No stores in your area? Buy online and have it sent to you next day express.

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## bad manners

JB, are you unable to read? I am not talking coffee stands or cafes (I might, but that would be a digression). I am not talking about gourmet stores either. I am talking about what Joe Six Pack consumes from a pint mug. 
Hint: real coffee is consumed from small cups, about the size of vodka shot glasses. Tell us how many American homes have these cups. Have you ever owned one?

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## JB

For some reason you seem quite determined to convince people that everyone in the US consumes some sort of national coffee that we all seem to know the receipe for. I have no idea who you are referring to as "Joe Six Pack". (Of course I probably don't associate with the same type of people that you do and this is a reference to one of your crowd)
And since you don't seem to know the correct name of those coffee cups "about the size of vodka shot glasses" I won't make any guesses as to what you mean.
My home coffee brewing equipment includes a Krups coffee grinder, a Bodum French Coffee Press, a Turkish Coffee Cezve, and various sizes and shapes of cups including DEMITASSE cups. My friends and associates also have the same and many have espresso and cappucino machines.

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## VendingMachine

> My home coffee brewing equipment includes a Krups coffee grinder, a Bodum French Coffee Press, a Turkish Coffee Cezve, and various sizes and shapes of cups including DEMITASSE cups. My friends and associates also have the same and many have espresso and cappucino machines.

 Don't ever mention that to a Russian, they'll simply die laughing at you. It's not just bare necessities, you've got basicaly nothing that can be used to brew COFFEE. With such a narrow selection of utensils that are available to the average American coffee fan it's no surprise that you can't brew jack sh*t. Russians who really care about the quality of their coffee use a much wider selection of cooking utensils and kitchen gizmos.

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## bad manners

A half gallon demitasse? 
Do you also have a large box of sand with your cezve? Or is it electrically operated? 
Give me a break.

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## VendingMachine

Summing up:
we have established that Americans don't drink proper coffee. Also, JB is probably doing this now:  :: . And we're doing this:   ::

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## Friendy

As far as I know true coffee fans don't acknowledge instant coffee. I'm not sure that I heard of it but I think the same refers to various coffee drinks (кофейные напитки) that were quite common in Soviet shops (at least during a certain period). And instant coffee is consumed all over the world so I don't see why Americans should be accused of consuming “improper coffee” more than others. Sorry, friends, but my impression is that it's just another attempt to "show" that "simple-minded Americans" are inferior to “refined and complicated Europeans”. 
Btw, those who were acquainted with “Essential English” by C.E. Eckersley could have come to a conclusion that foreigners dislike English coffee  ::  .
As for demitasse, it can't be half gallon by definition:  http://www.bartleby.com/61/28/D0122800.html

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## bad manners

Friendy, I realise that few people in this world drink real coffee. In my book, both the Russians and the Americans rate low. The Russians rate low because of the instant coffee. The Americans rate low because of their half gallon "demitasses". The nations that rate high are the Greeks and the Turks. 
P.S. I am not biased, I drink almost no coffee myself.

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## JB

Friendly, ignore these 2 who think they are "experts" on coffee.
I am very happy that the coffee culture in Russia is quickly catching up to the American obsession with coffee. In Moscow I find a wonderful assortment of coffee and brewing equipment in the stores. Here are just 2 of many websites that give a lot of info on coffee in Russia...... www.coffeenews.ru   and www.coffeetea.ru  
And there are now so many coffee cafes! Coffee Bean (also very popular in America), Кофе Хауз, Мока Лока, Шоколадница, and many more.
So people who want good coffee can have it in both America and Russia.   ::

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## bad manners

> So people who want good coffee can have it in both America and Russia.

 "Can have" was never questioned. "Would have" is a different story. Entirely.

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## JB

since you don't drink coffee bad manners, how do you know what is or isn't good coffee?

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## bad manners

I said _almost_. Because it is hard to have good coffee routinely. Machine-made coffee is not good for my taste, and making it manually takes a lot of skill, skill that I do not possess (because of this circular problem). So drinking coffee means, for me, an expedition to one of the few coffee shops that make good coffee. I do not think it is different for most of the Americans. But since they drink "coffee" by the gallon, many times a day, that should indicate something about its quality. 
The situation in Greece and Turkey is different because good coffee is made just about everywhere.

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## JB

Who told you Americans drink coffee "by the gallon, many times a day?"

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## VendingMachine

> ... it's just another attempt to "show" that "simple-minded Americans" are inferior to “refined and complicated Europeans”.

 Inferior? Now, that's the term only and idiot would use. No, no, no. It would be absurd to claim that. But what can I say, we just happen to love their funny little ways, don't we, Friendy? It must be a lot of fun for some - sitting on their roost in cowboy clobber drinking demigalons of coffee by the tasse and educating the dirty peasants in rural Russia about labour saving devices invented by blue-eyed and fair-haired once vikings but now just yokels in the land of stinking herring and polar bears.

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## JB

For all of you who want to look and act like REAL Americans (or should I say VM's fantasy of all Americans) go to www.cowboy.com 
And to drink coffee just like an American go to www.arbucklecoffeetraders.com    But you need to put on a ten gallon hat and call all your friends "Buckeroo" every time you drink a cup of cowboy joe.   ::   ::   ::

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## VendingMachine

> For all of you who want to look and act like REAL Americans (or should I say VM's fantasy of all Americans) go to www.cowboy.com

 My fantasy of all Americans? I don't have fantasies about Americans. I don't have fantasies about individual Americans to say nothing about the whole population of the US. It is _you_ who has fantasies. You think that the whole world has fantasies about you and your fellow countrymen. Well, we don't. Besides, I don't want to look or act like "real" Americans. I don't even want to act or look like "unreal" Americans. I look like a million $$$, I act like the most prolific casanova that's ever lived, what else would a chap want? JB, please make your point or they might think you cannot think straight when I'm around.

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## JB

VM, you are such an old sleeze.  You spend so much time trying to convince us that you really are a "hot stud" with the under 25 crowd. But you are completely out of it when it comes to fashion and trends that everyone younger than middle age is into. Before you make your next clueless post, get out of your apartment and take a walk in the city center. American style is everywhere in St Petersburg and in Moscow.

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## VendingMachine

> VM, you are such an old sleeze.  You spend so much time trying to convince us that you really are a "hot stud" with the under 25 crowd.

 That's because you obviously have a bad case of Alzheimers and need to be reminded of this simple truth every now and then.   

> But you are completely out of it when it comes to fashion and trends that everyone younger than middle age is into.

 Wrong. I'm very much into it. Thing is, we have different perceptions of fashion. To you fashion is being on the same wavelength with the sheeple, to me it's about demonstrating my individuality.   

> Before you make your next clueless post, get out of your apartment and take a walk in the city center. American style is everywhere in St Petersburg and in Moscow.

 Oh really? How can you be so sure it's not the other way round - St Pete and Moscow style has finally reached your shores?

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## bad manners

> American style is everywhere in St Petersburg and in Moscow.

 Last time I checked, I could not see three hundred kilogram piles of stale fat in wheelchairs chewing a double cheeseburger (eleventh for the day, flushed with 0% fat cholesterol free organically grown coke) anywhere in Moscow or Saint Petersburg. That’s probably why I cannot see XXXX…L T-shirts and pants that would make a bark envy. And what is left of the American style with these two quintessential pieces removed? Baseball caps?

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## JB

Well now we know that bad manners doesn't live anywhere near Moscow, or maybe doesn't go anywhere near teenagers. Baseball caps and McDonalds are on every corner.  OH WAIT! I'm American and don't know ANYTHING about Russia! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/ ... 200065.jpg

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## bad manners

What's so American about the lads in the picture? 
I take it you do go near the kind of teenagers I pictured in my previous post. I am glad I am not near you.

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## Линдзи

> What's so American about the lads in the picture? 
> I take it you do go near the kind of teenagers I pictured in my previous post. I am glad I am not near you.

 Well, I'm pretty sure that blue jeans, hoodies that say "SBZ," and baseball caps are not, in fact, traditional Russian garb.

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## bad manners

Like I said, baseball caps are all that remains of the "American Style". Blue jeans can hardly be considered "American Style" these days. And if you go nitpicking, I shall mention the city of Nimes and fustian of Genoa branded as "jean". 
And what of SBZ?

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## Евгения Белякова

Were jeans originally American? I think of jeans as American style, though many people in different countries wear them too.

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## VendingMachine

> Well, I'm pretty sure that blue jeans, hoodies that say "SBZ," and baseball caps are not, in fact, traditional Russian garb.

 Sure there're not. Russian style is _kosovorotka_, _kirzachi_, _vatnik_ and _ushanker_. Kids have always worn jeans, hoodies (which we call _kenguru_ by the way) and baseball caps, even when I was their age. American style my @rse! Yet another proof that you know ...k all about Russia.

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## VendingMachine

Here's a photo of me from 1990.  
In 1991 American fashion was officially welcomed into the country and we started to dress differently.

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## VendingMachine

> Well, I'm pretty sure that blue jeans, hoodies that say "SBZ," and baseball caps are not, in fact, traditional Russian garb.

 And are they traditional American garb? Did Fenimore Cooper characters sport baseball caps? I'm pretty sure they didn't.

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## JB

In 1873 Levi Strauss invented blue jeans in California.

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## VendingMachine

> In 1873 Levi Strauss invented blue jeans in California.

 Levi Strauss, right... Has it ever occurred to you that 'levi strauss' is the Russian for 'left ostrich'? Next time you decide to tell a fib, plan it out better.  
P.S. So, how does it feel, having to go  ::  for the second time this week? Yippeeee!  ::

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## Friendy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeans

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## TiaraNEug

Maybe now VM is doing this too...  ::  
Thanks, Friendy.

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## bad manners

> In 1873 Levi Strauss invented blue jeans in California.

 And 126 years after, when Algore invented the Internet, did that happen in California, too?

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## chaika

VendingMachine and bad manners-- 
What is going on? Either you two guys drink too much and bring it all here, or you are just plain antisocial. Give it a rest.  
I suppose you think you are contributing something useful to us learners -- but I'm getting nothing. What do you imagine you are contributing to this site, anyway? Why are you bothering to spend your time here? You must want something, but what is it?  
I do not like reading your posts the way you speak nastily to people, and I would like you guys to settle down and converse in a less confrontative way. I'm sure you both have a lot that I could learn, but you rarely show me any of it. I'm looking forward to some language insights from you guys. 
C уважением, 
Давид
Американец.

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## BlackMage

VM, jeans seriously were invented by Levi Strauss in California during the gold rush there.  His name is pronounced Leev-eye, and whether or not they were simultaneously created elsewhere I do not know.

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## VendingMachine

> Maybe now VM is doing this too...  
> Thanks, Friendy.

 Oh? Since when is a wikipedia article considered to be a proof of anything? Those people will stop at nothing and setting up a web page is easier than falling off a log. (BTW, log files can also be fabricated)   

> I do not like reading your posts the way you speak nastily to people, and I would like you guys to settle down and converse in a less confrontative way.

 Mr Chaika, sir, I would like you to kindly refrain from telling me what I should and what I shouldn't do. No one's forcing you to read our discussions, let alone participate in them. May I remind you that this isn't exactly a language learning thread - in this thread we talk about the Russian history and culture. The good ol' if you can't stand the heat, get the .... out of the kitchen rule applies here.   

> I'm sure you both have a lot that I could learn, but you rarely show me any of it. I'm looking forward to some language insights from you guys.

 I suggest you seek for that kind of knowledge in appropriate threads.

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## VendingMachine

> VM, jeans seriously were invented by Levi Strauss in California during the gold rush there.  His name is pronounced Leev-eye, and whether or not they were simultaneously created elsewhere I do not know.

 Well, they may have fooled you, but they didn't fool me - I can pronounce левый when I see it written down, thank you very much. I don't care where jeans were "invented", all I know is that since левый was invented in Russia, jeans most certainly are a Russian invention. And here's even more proof jeans were invented in Russia by a Russian - guess what the Russian for jeans is? _Джинсы_! Джинсы, ladies and gentlemen! You shamelessly borrowed (well, more like stole) the word from our language. What they did invent in the US is _cowboy pants_ - ковбойские портки in Russian or _cowboybukser_ in Danish. Is it my fault that you apparently can't tell jeans from cowboy pants?

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## waxwing

Absolutely correct. Hence the well known (to linguists) and unique triple-false plural 'jeansies'.

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## Friendy

> Oh? Since when is a wikipedia article considered to be a proof of anything?

 You don't like our sources? No problem. We have others, more reputable  ::  and what's more they are Russian:  http://www.megabook.ru/bes_98/encyclop. ... 1%FB#srch0

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by VendingMachine  Oh? Since when is a wikipedia article considered to be a proof of anything?   You don't like our sources? No problem. We have others, more reputable  and what's more they are Russian:  http://www.megabook.ru/bes_98/encyclop. ... 1%FB#srch0

 Nothing will ever prevent certain people with some extra cash on their hands from bending the truth to satisfy their vanity. They buy newspapers to brainwash entire nations - what's paying a hacker to change a few words on a webpage for them? I bet they use banknotes of higher denomination to wipe their butts in the loo than what they paid the megabook's sysadmin for his silence.  
Friendy, I always thought you were one of _us_, rather than one of _them_. I'm very disappointed, Friendy, I really am.

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## Friendy

> Friendy, I always thought you were one of _us_, rather than one of _them_. I'm very disappointed, Friendy, I really am.

 I'm really sorry for disappointing you but I've always been one of _myself_.

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## JB

::   Friendly I would like to invite you for coffee (I think this thread was originally about drinking) when I return to Moscow!

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## bad manners

Would anyone explain how jeans were seriously invented in America if that highly reputable wikipedia says: 
[i]Jeans were *invented* in Genoa, Italy when that city was an independent Republic, and a naval power. The first jeans were made for the Genoese Navy because it required an all-purpose pant for its sailors that could be worn wet or dry, and whose legs could easily be rolled-up to wear swabbing the deck and for swimming. These jeans would be laundered by dragging them in large mesh nets behind the ship, and the sea water would bleach them white. The first denim came from (french:de) N

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## VendingMachine

> Friendly I would like to invite you for coffee (I think this thread was originally about drinking) when I return to Moscow!

 Remember what I was saying about people with money always getting what they want only a few posts away? I only hope Friendy, that she bribes you with something respectable...  
P.S. Any chance of JB visiting St Pete with her world famous nautical buffet?

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## Friendy

> Friendly I would like to invite you for coffee (I think this thread was originally about drinking) when I return to Moscow!

 Thank you heartily, JB  :: , but unfortunately I'm one of those people who don't like coffee.

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## Линдзи

> Originally Posted by VendingMachine  Friendy, I always thought you were one of _us_, rather than one of _them_. I'm very disappointed, Friendy, I really am.   I'm really sorry for disappointing you but I've always been one of _myself_.

 Friendy, I like your style.

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## Friendy

Thank you, Линдзи.  ::

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## VendingMachine

_Krugovaya poruka_...  ::   ::   ::

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## JB

::

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## TiaraNEug

> In 1873 Levi Strauss invented *blue* jeans in California.

 She said blue jeans-which is correct. VM, you can look it up anywhere you want. Almost any document will say the same thing. So there are a million little hackers going around changing history becauuuuse....they have nothing better to do? Mmm. I don't think so. You've got to give Americans a little more credit. For such an old man, you are not very wise. Personally, I don't think you have any idea how ignorant you sound. All you are doing is coming up with ridiculous excuses why you are right and taking us all back to the days of elementary school. Honestly, someone your age really ought to grow up.

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## bad manners

Sigh. So what exactly did they invent? The way trousers (pants for you Rightpondians) are made and look like? Nonsense. Denim? Of course not. _Blue_ denim? Doubt it. And I prefer black denim anyway. 
Really, the only thing I can think of is rivets.

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## JB

and another version of history; http://www.levistrauss.com/about/history/denim.htm

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## Friendy

Thank you for that link, JB. The deeper we go into the history of anything the more nuances we see and the more we realize how inaccurate any simplification would be and it’s only natural.   ::  And probably the reason Levi Strauss is often credited as the inventor is because his jeans were the closest to what we have today.

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## bad manners

And? That account says: 
1. Denim is not an American invention.
2. Jeans (the fabric) is not an American invention.
3. Denim garment, apparently including trousers (pants), is not an American invention.
4. Riveted pockets are an American invention.
5. The popularity of denim garment is originally an American phenomenon. 
Of these, only item #5 is of relevance for JB's statement. But it only justifies using the word "invention" in its archaic sense, not in the sense "creation".

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by JB  In 1873 Levi Strauss invented *blue* jeans in California.   She said blue jeans-which is correct. VM, you can look it up anywhere you want. Almost any document will say the same thing. So there are a million little hackers going around changing history becauuuuse....they have nothing better to do? Mmm. I don't think so. You've got to give Americans a little more credit. For such an old man, you are not very wise. Personally, I don't think you have any idea how ignorant you sound. All you are doing is coming up with ridiculous excuses why you are right and taking us all back to the days of elementary school. Honestly, someone your age really ought to grow up.

 One carefully positioned propaganda site is enough to make people re-write their history books. 
It looks like this discussion is spiralling towards yet another offtopic, therefore I'm leaving it. 
P.S. How dare you call me old. I'm not old, in fact I look much younger than most of my American friends. Actually, you're talking to an expert in chercher la femme here, son.

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## TiaraNEug

If saying that you are old is all someone has to say to get you to leave.... 
BTW-you are not old, and I am a guy....right.  ::

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