# Forum About Russia Society  Sexuality

## krwright13

So, here in the U.S. there has been a lot of controversy about sexuality... Whether it be acceptance, equal rights, gay-marriage, etc. I was just curious. How is this topic, or how are homosexuals, treated in Russia and other slavic areas?

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## Demonic_Duck

As far as my gay Russian friend in Moscow tells me, very badly, apparently there's very little acceptance, and there are a lot of thugs in Moscow who would attack someone for being gay. (He's still in the closet for that exact reason.) 
I have no idea to what extent that's true, and I don't know about the rest of Russia.

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## krwright13

I've heard that it's pretty frowned upon in the cities and that's why I ask. I also hear there are certain streets that are common grounds for gay people to meet, and gay clubs, but nothing too abstract to be noticed.

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## it-ogo

Society tends to be tolerant to the very fact of someone being gay, but intolerant to gay publicity. Homosexuality is considered to be a deformity, but not a crime. Public propaganda of homosexuality is definitely not welcome. One can not get any special privileges (like quotas) for being gay.

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## krwright13

That's pretty intense! Kind of upsetting (just based off of how much more open minded americans are -not saying everyone is open minded though-)

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## Ramil

There're plenty of them in show-business or fashion industry. There are bars, clubs, etc. Gays are not openly discriminated, but ignored by the majority and generally, nobody cares about whom you sleep with. It is a personal matter, after all, and not to be brought to people's attention. Gay marriages are not legal, well, this doesn't mean two gays can't live together, etc, but legally, they're not bound by any legal obligations (matters concerning inheritance, for example). There's a family legislation in Russia which explicitly states that marriage is a social union of a man and a woman. Official church, though technically it is separated from the state, but nonetheless having a rather substantial support from the government, strongly opposes homosexuality.
Generally, if you're a gay and you don't wear some extravagant clothing nobody will even know it, right? Some gay mannerism might be noticed and cause a few eyebrows to raise, but that's about all of the reaction you'd get.

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## Demonic_Duck

> Society tends to be tolerant to the very fact of someone being gay, but intolerant to gay publicity. Homosexuality is considered to be a deformity, but not a crime. Public propaganda of homosexuality is definitely not welcome. One can not get any special privileges (like quotas) for being gay.

 The whole idea of affirmative action doesn't sit well with me, because it shouldn't be needed. So I don't think anyone should have "special privileges" for their sexuality, or for any reason other than their own merit. 
The problem with people being "intolerant to gay publicity", as you put it, is that more often than not what this really translates into is that when they a straight couple kissing intensely on TV, they're perfectly fine with their kids watching it, and yet they see a gay couple doing so much as holding hands and they're suddenly "morally outraged". The other thing is how immensely paranoid some people can be - there are even some people who believe in some sort of a "homosexual agenda" where gay people are trying to turn us all into homos, which is plainly absurd. 
It genuinely boggles my mind how people can have any reaction other than "oh, OK then" to someone else's sexuality. The only time someone else's sexuality would bother me is if it was a girl I was interested in and she turned out to be a lesbian. (In which case I would say "whew! lucky escape there!" because all women are evil. But we'll leave that story for another time  :: )

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## Ramil

> The problem with people being "intolerant to gay publicity", as you put it, is that more often than not what this really translates into is that when they a straight couple kissing intensely on TV, they're perfectly fine with their kids watching it

 Yes, but what's wrong with a kid watching a straight couple kissing? The more the better I'd say.   

> The other thing is how immensely paranoid some people can be - there are even some people who believe in some sort of a "homosexual agenda" where gay people are trying to turn us all into homos, which is plainly absurd.

 I did say that somewhere, but I'll repeat -- nobody will succeed in turning you to homo if you're straight, but I object when children are told that being gay is 'being special' (all young people want to be special and sometimes they even invent things) or even 'being normal' (homosexuality is not, strictly speaking, normal). It is important that children are told that being straight is normal. They should be told that if a boy likes a girl it's normal, but when a boy likes a boy he might be... well, mistaken.   

> It genuinely boggles my mind how people can have any reaction other than "oh, OK then" to someone else's sexuality.

 I can only repeat -- if you don't plan to have sex with the person you speak with, is there really any need telling him or her about your sexual preferences or be interested in his (hers)?

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## bitpicker

> That's pretty intense! Kind of upsetting (just based off of how much more open minded americans are -not saying everyone is open minded though-)

 As an aside, from a Central European viewpoint it's interesting to see Americans described as open-minded in regard to sexuality (not talking about individuals here, of course, but society and government, media etc.). In our viewpoint it's probably difficult to find any place in the Western world which is more repressed in that regard.

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## it-ogo

> The only time someone else's sexuality would bother me is if it was a girl I was interested in and she turned out to be a lesbian. (In which case I would say "whew! lucky escape there!" because all women are evil. But we'll leave that story for another time )

 BTW in my feeling our society is more tolerant towards female homosexuality than towards male one. It is considered to be funny rather than ugly.  ::

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## Ramil

> BTW in my feeling our society is more tolerant towards female homosexuality than towards male one. It is considered to be funny rather than ugly.

 Right up to a point you face it IRL )))

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## chaika

>homosexuality is not, strictly speaking, normal 
I am left-handed, which also is not, strictly speaking, normal. I also have been gifted with languages. I am the only person I know who speaks more than one language. Guess I'm doubly abnormal.

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## Eric C.

> I did say that somewhere, but I'll repeat -- nobody will succeed in turning you to homo if you're straight, but I object when children are told that being gay is 'being special' (all young people want to be special and sometimes they even invent things) or even 'being normal' (homosexuality is not, strictly speaking, normal). It is important that children are told that being straight is normal. They should be told that if a boy likes a girl it's normal, but when a boy likes a boy he might be... well, mistaken.

 You doubt that the laws of nature are stronger than the perverted human mind?

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## E-learner

> BTW in my feeling our society is more tolerant towards female homosexuality than towards male one.

 One of my acquaintances, a male, once said, "I don't understand gays; but I perfectly understand lesbians -- their bodies are actually attractive."  ::

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## Eric C.

> One of my acquaintances, a male, once said, "I don't understand gays; but I perfectly understand lesbians -- their bodies are actually attractive."

 Yeah, and sometimes, I must say, their action can be really turning on. (that's why I really like bisexual females =)) )

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## Ramil

> You doubt that the laws of nature are stronger than the perverted human mind?

 Laws of nature are stronger. But nature dictates us to mate and produce offsprings. If 'nature' tells you otherwise then your genes have been marked 'defective' for future generations. Evolution does not need you.  ::

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## Eric C.

> Laws of nature are stronger. But nature dictates us to mate and produce offsprings.

 And what did I mean, to your mind? :/ 
I don't doubt I had no chance to get into the 'defective' way of thinking after viewing whatever number of 'gay pride movies', cuz I do believe the laws of nature (which hint me to search for a subject whose glands produce female sex hormones) are way stronger than the perverted human mind (which suggests that I consider each hole as a port to connect my device). That's it.

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## sperk

A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them.

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## Demonic_Duck

> BTW in my feeling our society is more tolerant towards female homosexuality than towards male one. It is considered to be funny rather than ugly.

 Biologically speaking, straight males should logically be more tolerant towards male homosexuality than female homosexuality. Male homosexuality takes males out of the gene-pool, which, from the point of view of a straight male, can only be a good thing. Female homosexuality, on the other hand, means there are less straight females to choose from when selecting a potential partner. (And vice-versa... straight females should be more tolerant towards lesbians than gay men. Again, I have generally found that the exact opposite is true - some women I have spoken to think that gay guys are "cute" but find lesbianism disgusting. I think the reason society _as a whole_ seems to find lesbianism more acceptable than male homosexuality is that men tend to be more aggressive and vocal in their homophobic beliefs.)   

> >homosexuality is not, strictly speaking, normal 
> I am left-handed, which also is not, strictly speaking, normal. I also have been gifted with languages. I am the only person I know who speaks more than one language. Guess I'm doubly abnormal.

 AAAH! FREEEAK! We should lock you up and put you in a cage and poke you with sticks!  ::

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## Lampada

> Laws of nature are stronger. But nature dictates us to mate and produce offsprings. If 'nature' tells you otherwise then your genes have been marked 'defective' for future generations. Evolution does not need you.

 Evolution created homosexuals to adapt and raise countless thousands of orphans.

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## it-ogo

> Biologically speaking, straight males should logically be more tolerant towards male homosexuality than female homosexuality. Male homosexuality takes males out of the gene-pool, which, from the point of view of a straight male, can only be a good thing. Female homosexuality, on the other hand, means there are less straight females to choose from when selecting a potential partner.

 Biologically speaking alpha male can take whichever female he likes without asking her opinion. And she takes it as a due. At least among primates this kind of behavior is typical. On the other hand she will not annoy him when he is not in mood, which is a positive side.  ::    

> Again, I have generally found that the exact opposite is true - some women I have spoken to think that gay guys are "cute" but find lesbianism disgusting. I think the reason society _as a whole_ seems to find lesbianism more acceptable than male homosexuality is that men tend to be more aggressive and vocal in their homophobic beliefs.)

 Agreed.    

> Evolution created homosexuals to adapt and raise countless thousands of orphans.

 Hmm... I doubt gut worms care much about orphans. But according to Darvinism they arose long before humans. 
There is another theory about homoSX, which agrees well with Occam's razor:
"Каждый может ошибиться, - сказал ежик, слезая с кактуса."

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## Justin2

I don't really understand why there is even a debate being made. It still really confuses me when I realize that there are people in the world who still "give a shit" about that sort of thing. I don't find it amusing or interesting at all...

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## Lampada

> I don't really understand why there is even a debate being made. It still really confuses me when I realize that there are people in the world who still "give a shit" about that sort of thing. I don't find it amusing or interesting at all...

 Yeah, right.  Like you do not have such people in your surrounding.

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## Crocodile

> You doubt that the laws of nature are stronger than the perverted human mind?

 Here's an interesting article I noticed today in the BBC: BBC - Earth - Are there any homosexual animals?   

> Only two species have been observed showing a same-sex preference for life, even when partners of the opposite sex are available. One is, of course, humans. The other is domestic sheep.

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## Lampada

*Animals In Love | Season 1 Episode 1 | Full Episode**Published on Feb 1, 2015 -* Animals In Love For centuries it was thought that animals did not share the same emotions as us but new science is starting to change that view.  *Liz Bonnin* sets out to explore the complex and diverse relationships that animals have and asks whether animals love.

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## Basil77

Typical attitude towards gays in Russia:

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## Petar Pan

Let's just say, Russia is still not ready for gay people...

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## Nikolya

I was in Vladimir a couple of weeks ago where I stayed in a hostel for three nights. One night I talked to two other guests, two Russian women from Moscow, both probably in their late 20s or early 30s. One had been in western Europe, and began talking about what she especially disliked about it: the fact that there are so many - openly - homosexual couples. This was followed by long monologues by both women about how awful геи (gays) really are, and how happy they were to live in Russia where there are not that many (their words).
Understandably, I quickly lost interest in speaking with them, and found another place in the hostel to sit. Ten minutes later the owner of the hostel walked up to me, and told me that he had overheard the conversation between me and the women. He seemed genuinely sorry and wanted to excuse his fellow Russians, explaining that the women were simple and did not know what they were talking about. I was happy to hear that the negative attitude towards homosexual people was not shared by all Russians - at least for a minute. However, I soon realised that he wanted to say sorry simply because I was not _supposed_ to hear what they had told me. "They don't meet many European people, they don't know that we can not say directly to European people that we hate homosexuals," and he then continued explaining that he, however, agrees totally with the women, and further described homosexuals as being some of the worst scum on earth. 
This is not meant to be generalisation - all Russian do not hate or dislike homosexuals. It is simply a funny story, albeit tragic and disturbing.

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## Lampada

> I was in Vladimir a couple of weeks ago where I stayed in a hostel for three nights. One night I talked to two other guests, two Russian women from Moscow, both probably in their late 20s or early 30s. One had been in western Europe, and began talking about what she especially disliked about it: the fact that there are so many - openly - homosexual couples. This was followed by long monologues by both women about how awful геи (gays) really are, and how happy they were to live in Russia where there are not that many (their words).
> Understandably, I quickly lost interest in speaking with them, and found another place in the hostel to sit. Ten minutes later the owner of the hostel walked up to me, and told me that he had overheard the conversation between me and the women. He seemed genuinely sorry and wanted to excuse his fellow Russians, explaining that the women were simple and did not know what they were talking about. I was happy to hear that the negative attitude towards homosexual people was not shared by all Russians - at least for a minute. However, I soon realised that he wanted to say sorry simply because I was not _supposed_ to hear what they had told me. "They don't meet many European people, they don't know that we can not say directly to European people that we hate homosexuals," and he then continued explaining that he, however, agrees totally with the women, and further described homosexuals as being some of the worst scum on earth. 
> This is not meant to be generalisation - all Russian do not hate or dislike homosexuals. It is simply a funny story, albeit tragic and disturbing.

 Sad, but such attitude of most people in Russia might change, eventually, after couple of generations from now.  And it's still could be better in the USA.

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## hrb264

Я из англии. Я бисексуал и я не люблю что путин думает об гомосексуализм. Но в России, гомосексуализм легальный. В другой страны наши политики любят, (Саудовской Арабия, украине,) для гомосексуалисты очень плохо, хуже чем в россии. Я думаю НАТО и Америка хотят война с Россия и в говорят об России и Путине больше чем в других страны.  
Извините для мой плохой русский язык!

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## Eric C.

> Я думаю НАТО и Америка хотят война с Россия и в говорят об России и Путине больше чем в других страны.

 Какие ваши доказательства???

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## alexsms

Что говорит гаишник на видео??? плохо слышно...

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## Throbert McGee

> "They don't meet many European people, they don't know that we can not say directly to European people that we hate homosexuals," and he then continued explaining that he, however, agrees totally with the women, and further described homosexuals as being some of the worst scum on earth.

 The quaint Pindostani custom of "tipping" can be useful for expressing неодобрение ("disapproval") in situations like that. E.g., if your bill comes to $19.95, you give the hostel-owner exactly $20, and then say, "Oh, but I absolutely insist that you keep the change -- *это тебе "бакшиш"* -- go buy yourself something nice, and have a WONDERFUL day!"  ::

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## Throbert McGee

Ещё тактики, при встрече с гомофобией от русских: 
1) Naive Absurdism: "Извините, добрый сэр, а мне чем-то странновато да удивительно, что у вас в России так враждебно обращаются с геями! Ведь в Америке известно ВСЕМ, что гомосексуалисты были изобретёны ВАШИМИ советскими технологами ещё в 1957 году, в целях того, чтобы подрывать основы западного общества, распространять безбожие, и при том ускорять погиб капитализма. Точно так же, как ЦРУ изобрело абстрактную живопись, чтобы отпугивать и деморализовать советских шпионов, и англичане изобрели сарказм, чтобы путать иностранцев."   _
(Excuse me, dear sir, but I find it somehow strange and surprising that people in Russia treat gays with such hostility! After all, it's universally known in America that homosexuals were invented by SOVIET scientists back in 1957, as part of a plan to undermine Western society, spread godlessness, and hasten the collapse of capitalism. Just as the CIA invented abstract painting to frighten and demoralize Soviet spies, and the British invented sarcasm in order to confuse foreigners.)_  
2) Implicit Appeal to Their Sense of Personal Shame and National Pride: "Ну, всё-таки, когда МОЙ БРАТ И ЕГО МУЖ посетили Россию два года назад, они просто влюбились в красоту страны, и очень сердечно рассказывали нам об очаровательном гостеприимстве русского народа."  _(Nevertheless, when MY BROTHER AND HIS HUSBAND visited Russia two years ago, they utterly fell in love with the country's beauty, and warmly described the charming hospitality of the Russian people.)_ 
3) Out-Chauvinize the Chauvinist: "Спасибо вам, за полезную информацию о российском обществе! Знаете, мой брат и его муж давно мечтают посетить Россию -- а я обязательно им посоветую, что вообще геям лучше бы в какую-либо страну *поболее вестернизированную*, типа Папуа Новая Гвинея, или Афганистан, к примеру."  _ (Thank you for the helpful information about Russian society! You know, my brother and his husband have long been dreaming about a visit to Russia, but I'll definitely advise them that gays are better off going to a country that's slightly more Westernized -- maybe someplace like, I dunno, Papua New Guinea, or Afghanistan.)_ ::

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## Throbert McGee

Turning to a more serious tone: Для ЛГБТ-Сообщества в США, сейчас наступает значительное пятидесятилетие. Четвёртого июля 1965 г. произошла первая в Америке "гей-манифестация", на площади в Филадельфии рядом с историчным домом, где раз подписали Декларацию Независимости. Участвовали лишь 20-30 активистов -- все одетые на офис, скромно и порядочно.  gaypioneers_1965.jpg 
Следует отметить, что в то время, "мужеложство" осталось уголовным преступлением во 49 штатах, за изключением Иллинойса. (В действительности, крайне редко сажали кого-нибудь в тюрьму, а самое существование этих запретов очень часто служило сомнительным предлогом для дискриминации против гомосексуалистов -- "Ведь они смеяются над законом" [анг. - "to be a *scofflaw*"]).   
Спустя четыре года, на улицах Нью-Йорка внезапно возникли так-наз. "Стоунвальские Бунты", в ответе на частое полийцейское издевательство над посетителями гей-баров. Сотни людей присоединились к беспорядкам, и в итоге арестовали несколько десятков. В следующом году, на годовшину бунта и тоже в Нью-Йорке, не меньше чем две тысячи геев участвовали в более или менее порядочный парад, под знаменем "Gay Pride." И вот теперь, в данный момент наш Верховный суд рассматривает вопрос: существует ли в самом деле какое-то "основное Конституцонное право" на однополый брак? 
Всё это получилось, за лишь полвека! Значит, едва удивительно, что в России народ боится "выпустить из бутылки гей-джина".

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## Alex80

> Всё это получилось, за лишь полвека! Значит, едва удивительно, что в России народ боится "выпустить из бутылки гей-джина".

 Джин уже выпущен. Кто-то, может быть, хочет этого не замечать, но в России уже давно этот джин выпущен и давно идёт этот же процесс.
Он как раз отстаёт на эти лет 50. Не более. Уголовного преследования уже давно нет. В эстраде много открытых и полуоткрытых геев. 
Закон о запрете пропаганды гомосексуализма *среди несовершеннолетних* в точности копирует Section 28 Британских 80-ых (да да, 30 лет отставания).
It is all the same and heads in the same direction.
Более того, я лично прогнозирую, что процесс пройдёт быстрее, т.к. есть примеры, на кого равняться.
И вот очень плохо, что в этих примерах есть негативные черты, когда де-факто получается, что у геев больше прав, чем у обычных людей - это вот как раз отталкивает. Поменьше бы ТАКИХ примеров.

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## Alex80

P.S.
А Путин... Путин тут заложник демократии. Он не может взять и разрешить всё в обществе, которое не готово. Это катастрофическая потеря голосов. С другой стороны, он уже никогда не вернёт уголовное преследование - это уже тоже недопустимо. Так что он балансирует. Как бы и гей-парад официально не разрешить, чтобы не развязать волну уличных конфликтов, и не подставить гей-сообщество под эдакий конкретный удар, что всех пришлось бы наказывать - нет нет нет. Надо тонко так, взять аналог Section 28, чтобы была формальная причина не допускать события, заручиться голосами и так далее. Но и паника, что закон будет применяться налево и направо - тоже из разряда преувеличений - цель тут другая. Не допустить перекосов.

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## Throbert McGee

> Джин уже выпущен.

 А мне кажется, что в России стараются изо всех сил чтобы запереть джина  пробкой, выбросить штопор, и наконец спрятать самую бутылку внутрь утки,  и её внутрь зайца, и того внутрь кованого сундука...   
But maybe  the expression "let the genie out of the bottle" has different meanings  in English and Russian? Говоря по-английски об отношении русского  обществе к гомосекскуализму, я мог бы смешать два выражения, вот так:  "The cat is already out of the bag, but the genie is still in the  bottle." "To let the cat out of the bag" = "раскрыть секрет"  (первоначально в смысле "раскрыть обман нечестного продавца" который  продал кому-н. резанного поросёнка, а незаметно в сумку всунул дохлую  кошку).  
However, I agree with Alex80's general points.

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## Alex80

> А мне кажется, что в России стараются изо всех сил чтобы запереть джина  пробкой, выбросить штопор, и наконец спрятать самую бутылку внутрь утки,  и её внутрь зайца, и того внутрь кованого сундука...

 Да нет, уже давно видно что именно что джинн выпущен - свершился перелом, когда официально и по закону явление перестало быть негативным. И уже не будет негативным. Всё. Общество рано или поздно поставлено перед фактом, что за избиение гея в подворотне придётся отвечать по закону. Полицейские в машине на видео выше уже не негодуют и гневаются, а смеются. Открытый гей вызвал не гнев, а смех. Дальше за смехом - пренебрежение, а дальше за пренебрежением - признание.
Процесс запущен.
А "Section 28" по российски что это такое - это формальная причина не допустить гей-парада. Там ключевая фраза "среди несовершеннолетних". В клубе со входом "18+" открыто признано - никто не запрещает, собсно уже понятно из самой формулировки - разрешает. Т.к. уличная демонстрация может вовлечь невольных зрителей-несовершеннолетних - то это отличный формальный повод.
Сколько уже закон существует? Повсеместных гонений на геев при этом не наблюдается. Да потому что не в этом цель.
А ведь на самом деле, если будет попытка провести гей-парад выйдут тысячи "недовольных" и начнут забрасывать камнями. А правительству это надо? А обществу, если разобраться? 
Да, придётся геям подождать в России с парадами. Но ведь не парады цель на самом деле. Цель - само признание. А процент активных гей-ненавистников снижается.

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## maxmixiv

Alex80
Да мы пытались уже это объяснить сто раз, но интуристы не понимают. Видимо, 30 лет форы - большой срок...

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## Eric C.

Maybe a little bit offtopic, but... Haven't you ever wondered why in the 21st century there are still countries that have anti-porn laws? I mean, "normal", "traditional" heterosexual porn. Check this out:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_by_region 
Apparently, no less than 2 dozen countries around the world make porn illegal. Now how can this ever be explained - like you cannot watch on a screen what you actually do every day? That's absurd. Now, I think I can make a guess - just look closer at those dark red countries. With very few exceptions, those are countries that don't really favor democracy or their people's well-being, but rather carry out tyrannies of one man, or a limited group of men. Obviously, those tyrants need total control over people, and a mechanism to prevent them from realizing that they're better off without the dictatorship. And as both Freud and Orwell wrote, sexuality is human's strongest instinct. So, control over people's sexuality gives them control over people, so they speak. Now, I may be right or wrong, but I think the "gay issues" in many countries have similar background.

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## Throbert McGee

Позвольте меня представить короткометражный "кукольный фильм", который я снял в прошлом году для YouTube. В самом начале, я слегка насмехаюсь над российским "Запретом", а в основном я смеюсь над "своими" -- именно, обидчивые геи-активисты, которые постоянно реагируют на всякую критику (либо разумную либо бестолковую) с типичной театральностью -- гнев, слёзы, и нарушения "Закона Годвина". Короче -- я смеюсь над тем, кому относится выражение "Don't be a Drama-Queen!"    
ЗЫ: English summary of what I tried to say in Russian -- I really meant to make fun of American gays, not Russians (even though the character "Volk the Dog" uses a few Russian words, which I may have gotten wrong!). So please don't get upset, прошу вас!

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## Throbert McGee

В ролике, у Взъерошенного Пса есть какой-то славянский акцент, и Кошка-Русалка говорит на довольно "ломаном" английском с японским акцентом. Значит, для иностранцев учащихся английского, не рекомендуется подражать нашим профессиональным куклам-актёрам, какие бы они ни плюшевые да хорошенькие! И вот текст устного диолога:  *DOG:* Привет, пиндосы! I am atheist homosexual! _[нараспев]_ Tra-la-la-la-la, penises taste like candy, and Jesus is a MYTH! Tra-la-la...  *CAT:* _[по-японски]_ "Ohai-yo gozaimasu!" I am fanatical born-again Christian! God destroy cities Sodom and Gomorrah, because they all homosexuals!  *ROBERT:* Hi, everybody, I'm Rob, and I like men in THAT way. Now, how do YOU think that Volk The Dog ought to respond to Mermaid Hello Kitty in this situation? Hmmm.... *
DOG:* _[громко рыдая]_ Is VERY mean of you to tell me, that God I don't believe in will send me to pretend  fires of non-existent Hell because I'm gay!  _[аудио из 1976 к/ф "Carrie": "They're all gonna laugh at you!"] _  *CAT:* _[с упрёком]_ Oh, stop! Stop be big cry-baby! You make ME look super-butch-macho!  _[NB: В англо-американском сленге, "butch" и "macho" означают одно и тоже -- "очень мужественный". Но "butch" давно принадлежит жаргону геев, и редко встречается в речи натуралов, хотя вообще понятно всем.]_  *DOG:* _[сопливым голосом]_ Also, is peoples like YOU who make "Эль-Гэ-Бэ-Тэ" teenagers listen all time stupid emo/goth music and cut themselves!  *DOG:* Hmmm, you know what I think, in my opinion? Maybe, if two angels who go to house of Lot were to take form of beautiful girls, and then Men of Sodom come and try to heterosexually gang-rape nice young ladies, then MAYBE, God would nuke Sodom anyways? _
[аудио из Моцарта, по-немецки: "Glory, fortune, joy, and fame!"]_   *CAT:* Interesting thought, maybe right. Here, please, take free pamphlet -- "Arigato!"  *DOG:* Oh, by the ways, I am NOT "гомосексуал" in for reals, but only on the television.  *CAT:* So how come you all the time lick OWN cock and balls _[нараспев]_ "all the way to happy ending"? I see!  *DOG:* What!? Да что за фигня, бл*дь!?  *DOG:* Because. I. Can.

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## Lampada

> Позвольте меня представить короткометражный "кукольный фильм", который я снял в прошлом году для YouTube. В самом начале, я слегка насмехаюсь над российским "Запретом", а в основном я смеюсь над "своими" -- именно, обидчивые геи-активисты, которые постоянно реагируют на всякую критику (либо разумную либо бестолковую) с типичной театральностью -- гнев, слёзы, и нарушения "Закона Годвина". Короче -- я смеюсь над тем, кому относится выражение "Don't be a Drama-Queen!" ...П

 _Позвольте мне представить _ После _В самом начале_ не нужна запятая. 
Мой вариант._  Я смеюсь над "своими", а именно: обидчивыми геями-активистами, которые постоянно, с типичной театральностью, остро реагируют на всякую критику (разумную ли, или бестолковую). Там что хотите:  и гнев, и слёзы, и даже нарушение закона Годвина. 
Короче, я смеюсь над теми, к кому относится..._

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## Lampada

> В ролике, у Взъерошенного Пса есть какой-то славянский акцент, и Кошка-Русалка говорит на довольно "ломаном" английском с японским акцентом. Значит, для иностранцев учащихся английского, не рекомендуется подражать нашим профессиональным куклам-актёрам, какие бы они ни плюшевые да хорошенькие! И вот текст устного диолога:  ...

 _для иностранцев, изучающих английский 
какими бы они ни были плюшевыми и хорошенькими_

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## Chemist12

> Apparently, no less than 2 dozen countries around the world make porn illegal. Now how can this ever be explained - like you cannot watch on a screen what you actually do every day? That's absurd. Now, I think I can make a guess - just look closer at those dark red countries. With very few exceptions, those are countries that don't really favor democracy or their people's well-being, but rather carry out tyrannies of one man, or a limited group of men. Obviously, those tyrants need total control over people, and a mechanism to prevent them from realizing that they're better off without the dictatorship. And as both Freud and Orwell wrote, sexuality is human's strongest instinct. So, control over people's sexuality gives them control over people, so they speak. Now, I may be right or wrong, but I think the "gay issues" in many countries have similar background.

 Err... a lot of those countries seem pretty religious (China being an obvious exception). Isn't a more likely explanation for the restrictions is that they believe porn is a sin? 
I seriously doubt there are many dictators worried that porn will lead to the people realizing that they are better off without a dictatorship. 
Exactly how would this work? So people would watch porn and then...? I don't understand your reasoning.

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## Lampada

> Err... a lot of those countries ...

 Привет, Chemist12!  Have you made any progress in your Russian?

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## Chemist12

Hi Lampada! 
I have not made to much progress with the language (I have made some). 
To be honest, learning languages is something I struggle a lot more with compared to other areas of study. 
However, while trying to learn Russian I became very interested in Russia as a place. So I have learned a lot about Russian politics and government. I find it really interesting. It is also the sort of thing I find quite natural to learn about.

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## Звездочёт

> Err... a lot of those countries seem pretty religious (China being an obvious exception). Isn't a more likely explanation for the restrictions is that they believe porn is a sin?  I seriously doubt there are many dictators worried that porn will lead to the people realizing that they are better off without a dictatorship.  Exactly how would this work? So people would watch porn and then...? I don't understand your reasoning.

 Heh, no. Dictators think that they know better, what is useful for people and country, they cultivate their ideas, and does not tolerate other opinions. So, if porn isn't part of their system of values, they prohibit it.

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## Chemist12

> Err... a lot of those countries seem pretty religious (China being an obvious exception). Isn't a more likely explanation for the restrictions is that they believe porn is a sin? 
> I seriously doubt there are many dictators worried that porn will lead to the people realizing that they are better off without a dictatorship. 
> Exactly how would this work? So people would watch porn and then...? I don't understand your reasoning.
> Heh, no. Dictators think that they know better, what is useful for people and country, they cultivate their ideas, and does not tolerate other opinions. So, if porn isn't part of their system of values, they prohibit it.

 Okay, that could very well be the reason. 
However, this does not explain Eric Cs view that the dictators prevent people from watching porn to stop them from overthrowing him or her.   

> So, control over people's sexuality gives them control over people, so they speak.

 How does control over porn (by banning it), prevent uprisings?

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## Eric C.

> Okay, that could very well be the reason. 
> However, this does not explain Eric Cs view that the dictators prevent people from watching porn to stop them from overthrowing him or her.   
> How does control over porn (by banning it), prevent uprisings?

 From what I've studied, tyrannies often rely on control of people's sexuality as a way of zombifying people. If they can tell everyone how/how often/with whom to f*ck, that will ultimately make ppl more "obedient", satisfied with any BS they're given, and less likely to ever consider strikes or uprisings. Typically, that sort of agenda includes a total ban on porn.

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## Звездочёт

> From what I've studied, tyrannies often rely on control of people's sexuality as a way of zombifying people.

 It's very common theory, however I don't believe in that. I think, dictators are not so clever, they are just people, who wish impose their world view and lifestyle on all people, and when someone follows by another way, dictators fly into a rage. So, it's not question of sexuality, it's question of control and power.

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## Звездочёт

> И уже не будет негативным. Всё. Общество рано или поздно поставлено перед фактом, что за избиение гея в подворотне придётся отвечать по закону. Полицейские в машине на видео выше *уже не негодуют* и гневаются, *а смеются*. Открытый гей вызвал *не гнев, а смех*. Дальше за смехом - пренебрежение, а дальше за пренебрежением - признание.
> Процесс запущен.

 Думаю, в этом есть зерно истины. Сегодня наткнулся в Ютубе на видео, вторая часть которого отчасти иллюстрирует сказанное Алексом80. Правда, из этого же видео ясно, насколько для русских гомосексуальные отношения всё ещё остаются чем-то экзотичным и диковинным.    
Кстати, этот ролик был снят после того, как та же группа провела другой эксперимент. Форум не позволяет публиковать в одном сообщении несколько видеороликов, поэтому дам просто ссылку: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgm3lb9JUU0, но там всё печальнее. Лично меня расстраивает поведение некоторых недовольных людей на улице. Можно, конечно, по-разному относиться к вещам нашей жизни, но всё-таки ТАКАЯ реакция, по моему мнению, недопустима. И после этого некоторые наши медийные "философы" уверяют, что Россия, якобы, может предложить миру некий образец высоко духовной цивилизации...   **Фейспалм** 13659715849388.jpg

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## RedFox

> Лично меня расстраивает поведение некоторых недовольных людей на улице.

 Поведение комментаторов на ютюбе, пишущих "Russians are animals." и "How do countries like this still exist?", ничем не отличается.

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## Звездочёт

> Поведение комментаторов на ютюбе, пишущих "Russians are animals." и "How do countries like this still exist?", ничем не отличается.

 Комментарии на Ютубе, да и вообще в социальных сетях  и блогах, никогда не отвечали высоким стандартам. По моему мнению им не стоит придавать слишком уж большого значения. И совсем другое дело безобразное поведение на улице, которое является уже откровенным хулиганством.

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## RedFox

В душе эти люди одинаковы. Просто дрессировка разная.

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## Звездочёт

> В душе эти люди одинаковы. Просто дрессировка разная.

   ::  Ну, может быть, Вы и правы.

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## Eric C.

> В душе эти люди одинаковы. Просто дрессировка разная.

 В душе очень многие люди следуют установившемуся паттерну поведения - поскорее закончить с мытьем, и выйти из душа. =))

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