# Forum Learning Russian Language Pronunciation, Speech & Accent  bl

## SashaT

O.K.  I have all of the cyrillic alphabet down besides two letters: bl and the one that looks like a W with a tail.  
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bl 
I everywhere I go it says that this sounds like the i in big or a combo of it and the i in some other word.  I live in a town in the Norhtern part of the U.S. where words sre pronounced much differently than other places, so someof these word sound nothing alike to me.  The i in big makes sense to me, can I pronounce it like this and still be pronouncing it properly?
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W with a tail 
Everywhere I go says this sounds like a combination of a sh and a ch sound.  Is this like like the last sound in Porsche?
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Muchly appreciated guys.

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## TATY

> O.K.  I have all of the cyrillic alphabet down besides two letters: bl and the one that looks like a W with a tail.  
> ===============================================
> bl 
> I everywhere I go it says that this sounds like the i in big or a combo of it and the i in some other word.  I live in a town in the Norhtern part of the U.S. where words sre pronounced much differently than other places, so someof these word sound nothing alike to me.  The i in big makes sense to me, can I pronounce it like this and still be pronouncing it properly?
> ===============================================
> W with a tail 
> Everywhere I go says this sounds like a combination of a sh and a ch sound.  Is this like like the last sound in Porsche?
> =============================================== 
> Muchly appreciated guys.

 There are about 1000 threads about this. 
But to put it simply. Neither sounds exist in English. bI is harder to pronounce. It's best just to listen, and try and make the sound. 
Neither Ш nor Щ is the same as the English sh sound.
And Щ is TRANSLITERATED as shch, but has no english Ch sound in it.
Ш is always hard, and is pronounced the lower jaw pushed slighty forward. bI is also pronounced with the jaw in the same position. 
If you put your mouth in the position to pronounce Ш and try and say И you make Ы. But that won't hekp you much, since you can't make a proper Ш yet. 
Щ is always soft. When you pronounce it your mouth should be wider, almost like you are smiling. For Ш your mouth should be more closed. 
At the beginners' level, the best thing you can do to make Ш and Щ sound different is to note the following:
Since Ш is always hard, and Щ is always soft,  
шя is pronounced ша
шё is pronounced шо
ши is pronounced шы
шю is pronounced шу
ше is pronounced шэ
шь is pronounced ш 
ща is pronounced щя
щэ is pronounced ще
що is pronounced щё
щу is pronounced щю
щы is pronounced щи

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## fantom605

Everything I have heard makes the ы sound like a mix of "oo" and "ee"
 -Fantom

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## chaika

If you're American,
say "dick" and pull your mouth apart horizontally a little more.

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## Rtyom

Very interesting to say "dick" this way.   ::   What a nice word you have chosen for that!   ::  I myself tried to say it using the recommendations, but it sounds neither proper nor natural. Try saying [ы] in the position of [и] with the bulk of the tongue lifted a bit.

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## TATY

I can pronounce Ы after most letters. But I still have trouble saying the sound by itseld. Like when you say the letter name. And after R.

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## Friendy

> But I still have trouble saying the sound by itseld.

 That's not easy even for Russians.  ::   Probably the reason why words don't begin with it.

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## Rtyom

Oh, there are surnames of the Tartar, or may be of another nationality, I do not know for sure, beginning with Ы. 
Ысманов, for example.

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## TATY

> Oh, there are surnames of the Tartar, or may be of another nationality, I do not know for sure, beginning with Ы. 
> Ысманов, for example.

 Hmm, but I don't think the sound Ы exists in the Tatar language, and the symbol Ы is just used to represent another i sound.

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## TATY

> Originally Posted by TATY   But I still have trouble saying the sound by itseld.   That's not easy even for Russians.   Probably the reason why words don't begin with it.

 So, in English schools when they teach kids English they have those posters of the alphabet with each letter of the alphabet on them, then a word that it being with. Like A = Apple, B = Ball, C = Cat. 
What do they do for Ы in Russian.

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## Rtyom

> Originally Posted by Rtyom  Oh, there are surnames of the Tartar, or may be of another nationality, I do not know for sure, beginning with Ы. 
> Ысманов, for example.   Hmm, but I don't think the sound Ы exists in the Tatar language, and the symbol Ы is just used to represent another i sound.

 Yes, you are right, but did you think of us practicing those unwonted names?

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## Rtyom

> Originally Posted by Friendy        Originally Posted by TATY   But I still have trouble saying the sound by itseld.   That's not easy even for Russians.   Probably the reason why words don't begin with it.   So, in English schools when they teach kids English they have those posters of the alphabet with each letter of the alphabet on them, then a word that it being with. Like A = Apple, B = Ball, C = Cat. 
> What do they do for Ы in Russian.

 In our schools we have the same. In defiance of expectations there are no pictures for the letters Ъ, Ы, Ь. They are just written "bare", if it can be said so. Actually, Ъ and Ь are not letters; they are signs.

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## pisces

It's not hard at all to pronounce Ы by itself for native Russian speakers. Just as easy as О or И. However no Russian word starts with Ы.
In Romanian, for an instance, there are many words starting with

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## Nixer

> That's not easy even for Russians.  Probably the reason why words don't begin with it.

 Для меня есдинственная разница между "ы" и "и" - только в том, что "и" смягчает предыдущую согласную, а "ы" - нет. Соответственно, нет необходимости начинать слова с буквы "ы".

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## Zhenya

You have to listen and repeat!

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## Darobat

Слушайте ему здесь.

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## Nixer

I am native Russian speaker.

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## Rtyom

> Слушайте ему здесь.

 It sounds like a noise of some electric mechanism. 
"Слушайте ему"? Может быть, "его"?

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## mp510

> If you're American,
> say "dick" and pull your mouth apart horizontally a little more.

 Works good. Thanks. 
bl only appears after other letters. All russian books make that pretty clear (at least the ones i have).

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## Ядерное лицо

> So, in English schools when they teach kids English they have those posters of the alphabet with each letter of the alphabet on them, then a word that it being with. Like A = Apple, B = Ball, C = Cat. 
> What do they do for Ы in Russian.

 They have the same problem we have: X = ? 
In most of the posters/banners/books that I can recall off the top of my head, X is always described as "X as in foX". There are few English words that begins with X, and I think that young children would have a hard time understanding what is meant by xenon, xylem, xylene, xerox, xiphoid or xenophobia. Possibly the only other way out is to use Xmas as an example.

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## kwatts59

> Originally Posted by TATY  So, in English schools when they teach kids English they have those posters of the alphabet with each letter of the alphabet on them, then a word that it being with. Like A = Apple, B = Ball, C = Cat. 
> What do they do for Ы in Russian.   They have the same problem we have: X = ? 
> In most of the posters/banners/books that I can recall off the top of my head, X is always described as "X as in foX". There are few English words that begins with X, and I think that young children would have a hard time understanding what is meant by xenon, xylem, xylene, xerox, xiphoid or xenophobia. Possibly the only other way out is to use Xmas as an example.

 Xylophone
X-ray

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## Rtyom

Лицо, Xmas reads "Christmas", am I right? In this case, your example doesn't work.

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## laxxy

> Xylophone
> X-ray

 Isn't it [zilofon]?

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## Remyisme

> Oh, there are surnames of the Tartar, or may be of another nationality, I do not know for sure, beginning with Ы. 
> Ысманов, for example.

 
I wouldn't say that it's a good example, that word *"Ысманов"* first of all, if it's a last name of someone, than it's not Russian, only the ending here is Russian, but the root of the word and the letter *Ы* in the beginning of it, tell us that it's not a Russian word, which means that the man with this last name either not a Russain man, or has non Russian, Tatarian, as you say or other nationality, roots. This word, is also uncomforable to pronounce, because of the letter *Ы* in the beggining. There are no words in Russian that start with this letter, the more correct way to pronounce it on Russian way would be, to exchange the letter *Ы* on letter *И*, that way it will sound more pleasent to the ear and will be easier to pronounce.    

> bl only appears after other letters. All russian books make that pretty clear (at least the ones i have).

 that's right, *Ы* only appears in the middle of a word, for example in words like: *быть, пыль, мыть, выть, мыло, мысль* or a lot of times in the end of a word, when there's plural number for example in the words like: *машины, телевизоры, шнуры, костры*. also in words: *ты* and *мы*. it also can come after the first letter sometimes. 
Also, you should pay attantion, that sometimes there are some words that are pronounced like they have the letter *Ы* in them but in reality they are written with the letter *И*, the words like:  *шило, жизнь, шина* will sound like *шыло, жызнь, шына*, but this is not the correct writing of them, there is a rule in Russian grammar that says:  *ЖИ ШИ пиши с И* 
but I believe you all who learn from the books know that.

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## Pioner

I do not think that last name Ысманов exists, but everything is possible. Усманов - quite common muslim last name.

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## Pioner

> Originally Posted by Ядерное лицо        Originally Posted by TATY  So, in English schools when they teach kids English they have those posters of the alphabet with each letter of the alphabet on them, then a word that it being with. Like A = Apple, B = Ball, C = Cat. 
> What do they do for Ы in Russian.   They have the same problem we have: X = ? 
> In most of the posters/banners/books that I can recall off the top of my head, X is always described as "X as in foX". There are few English words that begins with X, and I think that young children would have a hard time understanding what is meant by xenon, xylem, xylene, xerox, xiphoid or xenophobia. Possibly the only other way out is to use Xmas as an example.   Xylophone
> X-ray

 "Children Xning" sing next to the school.

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## kalinka_vinnie

Xing is not a word, it stands for crossing... Same as Xmas (christmas) 
X can mean so many things!

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## VendingMachine

I sometimes pronounce _яичница_ as _ыышница_ or _ыычница_ as a joke (there are some dialects where they do it for real!). No problem with ы at the start of a word.

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## Rtyom

> I do not think that last name Ысманов exists, but everything is possible. Усманов - quite common muslim last name.

 There is a person in my city with such a surname!

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## Darobat

> Originally Posted by kwatts59  Xylophone
> X-ray   Isn't it [zilofon]?

 No, its ["zaIl@f_hon] 
It may be pronounced with a z, but it still starts with X.

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## TATY

Yeh, the whole point of those charts is not just pronunciation. So what the X in Xylophone is pronounced as Z. The word still starts with an X.
Therefore X is for Xylophone. 
I bought one of those Russian kids' alphabet posters in Russia. 
They put the hard sign and soft sign in the same square with no word for them. However this isn't really very wise, since the hard sign and soft sign do not appear next to each other in the alphabet.

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## Тостер

Sorry to resurect a dead post, but I recently heard ы in a song pronounced "wee". It was the word Вы and they pronounced it "Vwee".

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## Friendy

> Sorry to resurect a dead post, but I recently heard ы in a song pronounced "wee". It was the word Вы and they pronounced it "Vwee".

  Probably they just pronounced "В" as "vw"  ::   Actually it seems they often throw in some meaningless sounds in songs, sometimes for rhythm, sometimes for emotional effects maybe.

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