# Forum About Russia Travel and Tourism  Skinheads

## Pravit

Sorry to bring this topic up, but I just had to ask: How safe would it be for a Chinese(or other person of East Asian descent) to travel around Moscow or St. Petersburg? What about an Asian studying at a university there? It's probably not really a serious problem, but it's a bit of a concern for me. And if I'm seen walking with a white girl? Also, do you think skinheads will have generally died out within 5-10 years from now, or become more numerous?

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## JJ

> Sorry to bring this topic up, but I just had to ask: How safe would it be for a Chinese(or other person of East Asian descent) to travel around Moscow or St. Petersburg? What about an Asian studying at a university there?

 I think it is not more dangerous than in another big cities. Don't you know that there are some hundred thousand Chinies live in Moscow? But IMHO, if I were you I'll prefer Piter, it is more beautiful, the people more friendly there than in Moscow and a cost of living there is a little bit cheaper.

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## BD

But Moscow is the real CAPITAL!

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## Jasper May

Didn't you ask this some months ago as well? You're too race-concious, you are.   ::

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## joysof

There have been a couple of high-profile murders recently - one of a Tajik girl in  Petersburg, the other of an Afghan asylum-seeker here in Moscow - which appear to have been both racially-motivated and carried out by skinheads. Whilst not wishing to be a scaremongering Western propagandist or owt, I remain convinced that Russia has more of a problem with racial violence than exists in EU Europe or the United States. 
I have an acquaintance, a Chinese student at the Friendship University, who has had some difficulties, including being chased back to his общежитие by a gang of yobs. That said, this is a very racially-diverse city and such problems seem to be more exception than rule. Furthermore, you'd have much more trouble with Caucasian features than with East Asian, I imagine. 
This topic, however, has been done to death here.

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## joysof

Oh, but here are some skinheads you just want to hug:  http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2 ... 1/003.html   ::  .

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## Jasper May

Righteous goal, utterly wrong means I'd say... But still rather lovely.  ::

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## Pravit

> Didn't you ask this some months ago as well? You're too race-concious, you are.

 Yeah, but the only answer I got was Dogboy telling me how the father of his Russian friend looks Vietnamese. And that the Russian ESL teacher looks Chinese. Asian-looking people is nice but doesn't really tell me how situations are NOW in Russia... Jasper, if you were Chinese, I bet you would be a little concerned about going to Moscow too... 
If I hang around well-populated areas in daytime or early evening and stay away from 'seedy' areas, I should be fine, right? I was thinking about maybe studying there for a while but I don't like the idea of skinheads hanging around dorms for international students... 
About those other skinheads, heh, very huggable indeed.

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## scotcher

I don't imagine Moscow or St Petersburg are _significantly_ more dangerous for an East Asian than any other big city is for anyone who might stand out a bit there. That isn't to say that they are 100% safe of course, but neither would you be 100% safe in London, or Edinburgh, or Paris, or Sydney, or anywhere else. Hell, I doubt you are 100% safe where you are just now  ::   There are xenophobes and racists everywhere. 
I can say that during my visits to Russia I have not once seen a gang of skinheads (that's not to say they don't exist, just that I've never seen any), but I have seen plenty of people who are obviously not ethnic Russians. The first time I visited Moscow a large percentage of the guests in the hotel I stayed in were Japanese, for example, and I know my wife's former college in Ivanovo has a large number of Chinese exchange students.  
I accept, however, that I perhaps don't have your perspective, given that I don't really stand out while I am there and am in very little danger of being pegged as a foreigner unless I open my mouth. 
I don't suggest that you don't worry about it, just that you needn't worry about it any more or less than any person off to a foreign land should worry about their safety as a matter of common sense, ie, remember all the things your mum told you when you were growing up (don't trust strangers, safety in numbers, etc etc etc).

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## JB

Last summer I lived in the dorm for foreign students (mostly Asian) and there was never any problem with violence or people hanging around trying to bother the students.  But the Asians were more likely to be harrassed by the Russians who worked there if rules were broken. They also had to pay a lot more bribes than the anglos.

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## Pravit

Scotcher and JB, thanks for your posts. I knew I shouldn't really have worried about it, I think that it's just hyped up in the media too much. At any rate, if I seriously plan on studying in Russia sometime, I won't let skinheads deter me.  
About where I am now, you are right, although our town is kind of small(70,000) so I feel fairly safe here. When I go to Bangkok later this summer I will feel safer  ::  Interesting, do we have racist youth gangs in Asia? I think not. We just have many people trying to pick your pocket and con you...  ::

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## scotcher

I believe Japan has a small sub-culture of racist gangs who have been known to target foreigners, most especially the large Brazilian ex-pat community in the big industrial cities, but I have no idea how prevalent it is. It could, of course, be a very small problem indeed, but in a country with such low levels of personal crime and assaults anything like that is going to gather a disproportionate amount of attention. Thinking about it, it's actually quite surprising that such an insular nation doesn't have a larger problem, especially given it's reasonably recent history. 
Or maybe it is just us bloody Europeans afterall  ::

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## Pravit

Oh, come on, someone gets beat up in Japan and it's national news   ::   I'm not very familiar with that country though. In Thailand there is much more crime and so on, as it's not quite as developed as Japan, but I don't really think they have racist youth gangs over there. Well, most of those gangs are super nationalist, right? It's kind of hard to be nationalist about Thailand...  ::   What about in Ukraine? I'd also doubt they have that problem very much.

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## VendingMachine

> Last summer I lived in the dorm for foreign students (mostly Asian) and there was never any problem with violence or people hanging around trying to bother the students.  But the Asians were more likely to be harrassed by the Russians who worked there if rules were broken. They also had to pay a lot more bribes than the anglos.

 What sorta bribes are you talking about? Whom to? How much?

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## drew881

maybe with the dorm people and lock out times.  Or of course with cops harassing them.

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## drew881

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2 ... 8/003.html 
heres a story for you pravit, although it happened in volgograd. Still pretty scarry though

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## JB

You are correct drew. If you get back to the dorm past lock out, forget your proposk, want to bring a friend in after hours or without a proposk,  these all require having a "cigarette" with a guard away from the security cameras.

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## Линдзи

And, of course, when the police stop you in the street and find that "your documents aren't in order," that requires some, ahem, "paying of fines."    ::

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## Pravit

VendingMachine certainly wouldn't make me pay any "extra fines" if I was walking around St. Petersburg, right?   ::   
About that story: Ouch. Has anything similar ever happened in the Vietnamese markets in Moscow? 
I suppose it could be worse, at least I don't look like someone from the Caucusus...kind of sucks that this has to be a concern though.

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## bad manners

> And, of course, when the police stop you in the street and find that "your documents aren't in order," that requires some, ahem, "paying of fines."

 Ever tried to be stubborn asking "что же именно не в порядке? Да, я с удовольствием проследую в отделение, где с удовольствем подпишу протокол"? Of course that does not work when your papers are really not in order, but you sounded as if they were in order.

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## bad manners

> VendingMachine certainly wouldn't make me pay any "extra fines" if I was walking around St. Petersburg, right?

 I'm here right now, no extra fines so far.   

> I suppose it could be worse, at least I don't look like someone from the Caucusus...kind of sucks that this has to be a concern though.

 I really doubt this is a valid concern. Yesterday, I was walking around with a friend of mine, and he has this habit of drinking beer while having a walk after a tiresome working day. So we go in the nearest ларёк, to buy some beer for him, and we see there a couple of skinhead-looking guys, then a Caucasian-looking guy with a Russian-looking bird come in. You'd expect the skinheads to get a heart attack upon seeing that nauseating picture, yet they did not seem to care. Nor did the guy display any kind of concern. Then I saw this Кавказ bar (or restaurant) by the corner of Итальянская и Караванная (very centrally located, for those who do not know) -- and I could not see any traces of fires or thrashing that such an enterprise should have given what we're being told about "Russian nationalism". I know this is all anecdotal evidence, but the opposite is anecdotal evidence, too.

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## Pravit

> [quote:mhz7zr1e]I suppose it could be worse, at least I don't look like someone from the Caucusus...kind of sucks that this has to be a concern though.

 I really doubt this is a valid concern. Yesterday, I was walking around with a friend of mine, and he has this habit of drinking beer while having a walk after a tiresome working day. So we go in the nearest ларёк, to buy some beer for him, and we see there a couple of skinhead-looking guys, then a Caucasian-looking guy with a Russian-looking bird come in. You'd expect the skinheads to get a heart attack upon seeing that nauseating picture, yet they did not seem to care. Nor did the guy display any kind of concern. Then I saw this Кавказ bar (or restaurant) by the corner of Итальянская и Караванная (very centrally located, for those who do not know) -- and I could not see any traces of fires or thrashing that such an enterprise should have given what we're being told about "Russian nationalism". I know this is all anecdotal evidence, but the opposite is anecdotal evidence, too.[/quote:mhz7zr1e]
Yeah, you're probably right, there's nothing much to worry about. I'm probably more likely to be mugged than harassed by skinheads...

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## drew881

bad manners, cops will know your documents are in order, they know everything's fine, the reality of the situation is that if they really want money, and they have your passport in their hands, how are you going to get it back.  You cant just snatch it up and walk away.  NOw that being said, just because you havent had it happen to you, doesnt mean that it doesnt happen.  I had it happen once, simply for walknig out of a train station, and a cop felt like trying to get some money from me.  Now if talking to him for 45 minutes isnt enough of saying my documents are fine, i dont know what is.   In another situation, a cop just wanted to talk to me and ask why i wasnt registered in a given city, but i explained to him that i was just passing through and wasnt staying for longer than three days....not much of a problem.   
Spending 6 months in petersburg, I never walked around with my passport, and maybe sometimes with a spravka, but most of the time,  i felt fine walking around with a student bilet or nothing at all.   But in moscow, its more necessary to walk around with your passport because they are more concerned over security,  Moscow is a bigger target since its a political center and has had a few bombings and incidents over the last few years.

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## JB

Young males, Russian or foreign, seem to be popular targets for the police.  Especially after dark. I've never seen girls or women get stopped. Except when they are young and cute and then the cops are more friendly than threatening.

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## bad manners

> bad manners, cops will know your documents are in order, they know everything's fine

 If everybody knows everything is fine, then just wait till they have enough of your polite resistance, and be on your way. I realize that the cops try to present the case as if they will never let you go, but they do in fact care a lot more about their wasted time than you do about yours. 
But if you just shell out some dough, you create a positive feedback loop. Think about that. I'm not siding with the cops here, I know many of them are swine, I'm saying that this submission does not pay back.   

> In another situation, a cop just wanted to talk to me and ask why i wasnt registered in a given city, but i explained to him that i was just passing through and wasnt staying for longer than three days....not much of a problem.

 See? If you behave like a person who knows his rights, they cannot do anything to you.     

> Spending 6 months in petersburg, I never walked around with my passport, and maybe sometimes with a spravka, but most of the time,  i felt fine walking around with a student bilet or nothing at all.

 You're violating the law by doing so. Foreigners must be in possession of valid travel documents at all times.

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## Gollandski Yozh

[quote=bad manners] 

> And, of course, when the police stop you in the street and find that "your documents aren't in order," that requires some, ahem, "paying of fines."

 Ever tried to be stubborn asking "что же именно не в порядке? Да, я с удовольствием проследую в отделение, где с удовольствем подпишу протокол"? Of course that does not work when your papers are really not in order, but you sounded as if they were in order.[/quote:1qnywtxv] 
Some French citizens were beaten up quite badly in a St. Petersburg police station a year or two ago. Regardless of the fact if their docus were in order or not, that's just a criminal offense.

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## VendingMachine

[quote=Gollandski Yozh][quote="bad manners":1j66acb7] 

> And, of course, when the police stop you in the street and find that "your documents aren't in order," that requires some, ahem, "paying of fines."

 Ever tried to be stubborn asking "что же именно не в порядке? Да, я с удовольствием проследую в отделение, где с удовольствем подпишу протокол"? Of course that does not work when your papers are really not in order, but you sounded as if they were in order.[/quote:1j66acb7] 
Some French citizens were beaten up quite badly in a St. Petersburg police station a year or two ago. Regardless of the fact if their docus were in order or not, that's just a criminal offense.[/quote:1j66acb7]Oh? Cops aren't alowed to protect themselves against drunken pricks who lash out at them with sharpened screw drivers and knuckledusters? The punks had been gagging for it and got their just desserts and the law-abiding citizens said thank you our dear militsia for taking such scum off our streets.

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## VendingMachine

Take your rose-coloured spectacles off, guys, beatings at police stations take place in all countries - I know folks who have been subjected to brutal beatings at copshops in Madrid, London, Newcastle, Copenhagen, Oslo...this is an open list. Bent coppers and sadists in police uniform exist everywhere.  
As bad manners said, why don't you guys try putting your foot down for once? As for bribes at hostels, this is even more rediculous. You people are so naive and gullible... When I was a student I'd go to halls to shag girls and all and I'd often hear the security man shout "с тебя конъяк!" - do you seriously think I ever gave him anything? You see, many of the things you think people say in earnest is really said in jest even with a poker face - I don't know, perhaps you have to be Russian to understand it, it could be that just knowing the language is really not enough, but this is how it is, all this bribe extortion talk is pure bollocks. I'm dead serious folks, this is how it really is - but being a foreigner you misinterpret it and as bad manners rightly pointed out create a positive feedback loop. To put this bluntly, blame yourselves for paying bribes - no one's asking you too, just be firm and ignore this 'bribe talk' - in 99.9% of cases it's nothing but a somewhat surreal kind of humour.  
P.S. Of course they shouldn't use this type of banter on you but for some reason they all assume that you will understand, I suppose it's the same thing as with them thinking that you would understand Russian if they just spoke louder, but that deserves another topic....

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## scotcher

Yeah of course, absolutely, there's no bribery, corruption or extorsion of any kind in Russia other than that reported by foreigners who don't realise it's all just a joke. 
Yep, uhuh, definately.

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## JB

So VM, does that mean all my Russian friends are going to get their money back? Let's see, they look Russian, speak the native language fluently, and live in Moscow.  So I guess paying bribes is just a figment of their immagination  ::  .

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## Gollandski Yozh

[quote=VendingMachine][quote=Gollandski Yozh] 

> Originally Posted by "Линдзи":37f0djuo  And, of course, when the police stop you in the street and find that "your documents aren't in order," that requires some, ahem, "paying of fines."      Ever tried to be stubborn asking "что же именно не в порядке? Да, я с удовольствием проследую в отделение, где с удовольствем подпишу протокол"? Of course that does not work when your papers are really not in order, but you sounded as if they were in order.

 Some French citizens were beaten up quite badly in a St. Petersburg police station a year or two ago. Regardless of the fact if their docus were in order or not, that's just a criminal offense.[/quote:37f0djuo]Oh? Cops aren't alowed to protect themselves against drunken pricks who lash out at them with sharpened screw drivers and knuckledusters? The punks had been gagging for it and got their just desserts and the law-abiding citizens said thank you our dear militsia for taking such scum off our streets.[/quote:37f0djuo]   ::   
These were French emplyees of a French company in St. Pete. Just going about their business, NOT being drunk, NOT armed with screw drivers.  
Besides, there is a BIG difference between protecting yourself and beating someone to a pulp.

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## VendingMachine

> So VM, does that mean all my Russian friends are going to get their money back? Let's see, they look Russian, speak the native language fluently, and live in Moscow.  So I guess paying bribes is just a figment of their immagination  .

 No, no, look, you didn't understand. Unfortunately some of my fellow countrymen are not very clever people and they think that paying bribes is the only way to get things done. As bad manners said in one of his posts this creates a positive feedback loop - don't offer bribes, ignore the bastards. Believe me, you don't have to pay bribes to get things done - 99.9% of those who do would pay them everywhere and all the time and in all countries. More often then not _they offer bribes themselves_. It's in their blood as well as their heads - I would say the problem in this country is not with the extortion of bribes but with this stupid culture of paying bribes. I know this sounds rediculous, but this is how it really is, believe me, I have more insight into this having dealt with some 'extortion cases' professionally. 
By the way, what kind of bribes did they pay? Under what circumstances? How much?  
@Scotcher - don't be such a pompous ass, of course Russia, like any country in the world, has its share of people who extort bribes, we also have other scum such as serial killers, rapists, terrorists. Big smegging deal. This whole planet reeks of crime. And as a tourist you're more vulnerable. When a cabbie shortchanges me in London and then a girl behind a check-in counter at Stansted Airport tries to make me pay for my luggage cos it's 'overweight' althgough I have a special document from the BA's boss which alows me to carry 20 kilos more than what is normally alowed because I'm carrying stuff for an official deligation and it's being paid for by a third party, how should I react? What should I say? I don't say anything, I know that scum is omnipresent - doesn't matter where on this planet you are, scum will always get you in the end.

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## bad manners

> These were French emplyees of a French company in St. Pete.

 Indeedy. A French employee can never be drunk. By definition, I should guess. A reality check: even seen the F-Men when they're outta their daily "ampluamoh"?   

> Just going about their business, NOT being drunk, NOT armed with screw drivers.

 According to the employees, I'm guessing agaian. I'm also guessing that the cops may be saying something entirely different. But whom should the bright Йож trust? You bet, _never_ the Russian cops.    

> Besides, there is a BIG difference between protecting yourself and beating someone to a pulp.

 Wait till somebody pokes you in your belly or your eye with a screwdriver, then tell us what you did to the guy.

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## VendingMachine

[quote=Gollandski Yozh][quote=VendingMachine][quote="Gollandski Yozh":1446d509] 

> Originally Posted by "Линдзи":1446d509  And, of course, when the police stop you in the street and find that "your documents aren't in order," that requires some, ahem, "paying of fines."      Ever tried to be stubborn asking "что же именно не в порядке? Да, я с удовольствием проследую в отделение, где с удовольствем подпишу протокол"? Of course that does not work when your papers are really not in order, but you sounded as if they were in order.

 Some French citizens were beaten up quite badly in a St. Petersburg police station a year or two ago. Regardless of the fact if their docus were in order or not, that's just a criminal offense.[/quote:1446d509]Oh? Cops aren't alowed to protect themselves against drunken pricks who lash out at them with sharpened screw drivers and knuckledusters? The punks had been gagging for it and got their just desserts and the law-abiding citizens said thank you our dear militsia for taking such scum off our streets.[/quote:1446d509]   ::   
These were French emplyees of a French company in St. Pete. Just going about their business, NOT being drunk, NOT armed with screw drivers.  
Besides, there is a BIG difference between protecting yourself and beating someone to a pulp.[/quote:1446d509]I'm afraid you were misinformed. Yes they were imployes of a French company and this business they were going about was a criminal one and connected with drugs and child pornography. Please, Yozh, you'll only make a fool of yourself - I know this case like the back of my hand - I was once on the force, you know.

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## Gollandski Yozh

> Just going about their business, NOT being drunk, NOT armed with screw drivers.
> 			
> 		  According to the employees, I'm guessing agaian. I'm also guessing that the cops may be saying something entirely different. But whom should the bright Йож trust? You bet, _never_ the Russian cops.

 WTF are you talking about? It never happens, you're telling me? It happens in the US, why not in Russia? Where did you read it never happens in the Netherlands or something? I _never_ said that.  
This is a really stupid way of reasoning. "He is bad." "Well, _you_ are too!" Does that make the first person any less bad?!?   ::     

> [quote:15droqi5]Besides, there is a BIG difference between protecting yourself and beating someone to a pulp.

 Wait till somebody pokes you in your belly or your eye with a screwdriver, then tell us what you did to the guy.[/quote:15droqi5] 
A policeman, more than any other, has to follow the law. If the law doesn't give him the right to kick someone's teeth in, he can't do that. Defending oneself and disarming an attacker is not the same as taking revenge afterwards. In a civilised nation, the judge punishes, not the police.

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## Gollandski Yozh

> I'm afraid you were misinformed. Yes they were imployes of a French company and this business they were going about was a criminal one and connected with drugs and child pornography. Please, Yozh, you'll only make a fool of yourself - I know this case like the back of my hand - I was once on the force, you know.

 Connected with drugs and child pornography? So what (even if it's true)? They were _suspects_. The police _arrests_ people. The judge _punishes_ them. And _corporal_ punishment is not a possibility under Russian law, so...

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## bad manners

> WTF are you talking about? It never happens, you're telling me? It happens in the US, why not in Russia? Where did you read it never happens in the Netherlands or something? I _never_ said that.

 Where was I saying "it never happens"? I said that your representation of the case was ridiculous. What the hell does it have to do with their being French or whatever? If you had said "the Russian cops do nasty things to innocent people" without specifying their nationality, you knew you would have been asked for a proof. But mix in their Frenchness, and presto, that should somehow eliminate "gimme the proof" phrase. Why? What do you know about the case except what is told by the "innocent victims" themselves? You know, my friend, it always goes that way with criminals: they are ever so ready to claim their innocence and abuse of power by authorities. 
And, after all, if that happens in every country as you seem to be implying now, then why mention it at all, as if it were something Russian specific? The Russians like abusing the French? You should move outta Holland, then, since apparently that cannabis smoke all around you is degrading your intelligence.   

> A policeman, more than any other, has to follow the law. If the law doesn't give him the right to kick someone's teeth in, he can't do that. Defending oneself and disarming an attacker is not the same as taking revenge afterwards. In a civilised nation, the judge punishes, not the police.

 Oh puhleeze. I know that in Holland a policeman is a like a baby unable to do much against the criminals he's after, but that is only in Holland, so "Holland" does not equal "a civilised nation". You should actually have a look once at how the French police deals with the criminals -- oh wait, it might too much for you.

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## Gollandski Yozh

> You should move outta Holland, then, since apparently that cannabis smoke all around you is degrading your intelligence.

  

> Oh puhleeze. I know that in Holland a policeman is a like a baby unable to do much against the criminals he's after, but that is only in Holland, so "Holland" does not equal "a civilised nation". You should actually have a look once at how the French police deals with the criminals -- oh wait, it might too much for you.

 Is it really that difficult for you to discuss about a subject without these childish "the Netherlands are a nation constantly high on weet" stuff...   ::   
If you have something intelligent to say, I'll react. This post, however, is too far out of my way. I'd have to go down all the way to its level and that's not what I'm looking for on a forum.  
If I want a fight, I'll go to the nearest pub and tell the biggest guy there his mom is a whore.   ::

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by VendingMachine  I'm afraid you were misinformed. Yes they were imployes of a French company and this business they were going about was a criminal one and connected with drugs and child pornography. Please, Yozh, you'll only make a fool of yourself - I know this case like the back of my hand - I was once on the force, you know.   Connected with drugs and child pornography? So what (even if it's true)? They were _suspects_. The police _arrests_ people. The judge _punishes_ them. And _corporal_ punishment is not a possibility under Russian law, so...

 My dear sir, when a hardened criminal refuses to put his hands up and surrender, although he has been given a warning, but threatens to attack the officers and members of the public, the correct way of handling the situation is to throw the bastard on his stomach and handcuff his hands behind his back and if he gets a few bruises while this is happening to him, so what? And if he tries playing silly buggers down at the station and attacks officers there I think it's only right that they put up a stiff resistance too. You will be shocked to find out that this is exactly what happens in all countries where the police are not a joke.

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## Gollandski Yozh

> Originally Posted by Gollandski Yozh        Originally Posted by VendingMachine  I'm afraid you were misinformed. Yes they were imployes of a French company and this business they were going about was a criminal one and connected with drugs and child pornography. Please, Yozh, you'll only make a fool of yourself - I know this case like the back of my hand - I was once on the force, you know.   Connected with drugs and child pornography? So what (even if it's true)? They were _suspects_. The police _arrests_ people. The judge _punishes_ them. And _corporal_ punishment is not a possibility under Russian law, so...   My dear sir, when a hardened criminal refuses to put his hands up and surrender, although he has been given a warning, but threatens to attack the officers and members of the public, the correct way of handling the situation is to throw the bastard on his stomach and handcuff his hands behind his back and if he gets a few bruises while this is happening to him, so what? And if he tries playing silly buggers down at the station and attacks officers there I think it's only right that they put up a stiff resistance too. You will be shocked to find out that this is exactly what happens in all countries where the police are not a joke.

 So, since you "know this case like the back of your hand" (biiiiig   ::  ), are you telling me those French attacked the poor, defenseless keepers of order in the city on the Neva? They had it coming to them? Threathened to cut their throats? Export French cheese to Russia? Exactly what was their crime?

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## Pravit

> I was once on the force, you know.

 What? I thought you were still a cop!

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## VendingMachine

I told you that - drug trafficking and child porn. They were part of a network. That's all you need to know and that's all I'm saying - I lost a friend in a closely related case (there were several parallel cases related to this one) - he was an _operativnik_ and he was deadly wounded in a shoot-out with the scum while shielding a woman who had been passing by and got cought in the crossfire.

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by VendingMachine  I was once on the force, you know.   What? I thought you were still a cop!

 I retired. I have a share in a business, we trade in aquarium fish.

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## bad manners

[quote=Gollandski Yozh] 

> You should move outta Holland, then, since apparently that cannabis smoke all around you is degrading your intelligence.

  

> Oh puhleeze. I know that in Holland a policeman is a like a baby unable to do much against the criminals he's after, but that is only in Holland, so "Holland" does not equal "a civilised nation". You should actually have a look once at how the French police deals with the criminals -- oh wait, it might too much for you.

 Is it really that difficult for you to discuss about a subject without these childish "the Netherlands are a nation constantly high on weet" stuff...   :: [/quote:1rb7g20v]
Righty. Ignore a paragraph of text because it is a reductio ad absurdum of your false logic, and point your finger at the hypothesis as to why all your logic is so baloney, because it is not comfortable for you. Waaaay to go.   

> If you have something intelligent to say, I'll react

 I did, but you, characteristically, chose not to.   

> If I want a fight, I'll go to the nearest pub and tell the biggest guy there his mom is a whore.

 Do you actually need to say that where you are?

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## Gollandski Yozh

> If I want a fight, I'll go to the nearest pub and tell the biggest guy there his mom is a whore.     Do you actually need to say that where you are?

 You mean to tell me that where you're from that's self evident?   ::

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## bad manners

> You mean to tell me that where you're from that's self evident?

 Yep, where I'm from it is quite self-evident that Йож needn't mention that equally self-evident thing about his compatriots.

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## Gollandski Yozh

[quote=bad manners] 

> You mean to tell me that where you're from that's self evident?

 Yep, where I'm from it is quite self-evident that Йож needn't mention that equally self-evident thing about his compatriots.[/quote:2060o9fx]   ::

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## boisebret

How nice for you, to consider Moscow Russia....instead of Moscow Idaho USA!!  (I only say this, because of some of the idiots from the north end of my state!) 
Enjoy, let me know how it goes, etc. 
Bret

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