# Forum Other Languages English for Russians - Изучаем английский язык Learn English - Грамматика, переводы, словарный запас  pronunciation question - silent "t"

## gRomoZeka

I decided to work on my pronunciation and got some podcasts and Cambridge's "Pronunciation in Use". And all I get for my efforts is confusion.   ::   
Native speakers on that tapes pronounce "t" very clearly in some words like 'often', 'restaurant', etc. while I always thought it shouldn't be pronounced there. 
I was tempted to brush it off as a 'British thing' but
a) these are training tapes and presumedly they are to demonstrate standart pronunciation,
b) on a podcast both Englishman _and_ American said 'often' (with 'T'). 
I'm not going to change my habbits (yet   :: ) and to say it the same way but WHAT'S GOING ON? I'm just curious.  Is that an accent or it's common?

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## VendingMachine

Why don't you just look it up in a dictionary? Any dictionary will show two possible pronunciations: ofTn and ofn.

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## gRomoZeka

> Why don't you just look it up in a dictionary? Any dictionary will show two possible pronunciations: ofTn and ofn.

 I looked it up in three different dictionaries. All gave only one possible pronunciation - /ofn/ and /restron'/.

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## VendingMachine

You shouldn't use Soviet dictionaries. Use British/American dictionaries like Oxford, Cambridge, Longman, Webster, etc. Or their online versions, like this one here, for instance: http://www.webster.com/dictionary/restaurant and http://www.webster.com/dictionary/often

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## gRomoZeka

> You shouldn't use Soviet dictionaries. Use British/American dictionaries like Oxford, Cambridge, Longman, Webster, etc. Or their online versions, like this one here, for instance: http://www.webster.com/dictionary/restaurant and http://www.webster.com/dictionary/often

 I do believe it's a possible pronouncation since I've heard it, no need to prove it.   ::  
I'm just interested is it common enough to put it on training tapes, is it more common in some areas, does that way of pronouncation tells smth about the person (in Russian when you here someone says 'четвер_ь_г' or 'маленьк_а_й' you can guess a probable age (definitely old   ::  ) and origin of the person). 
PS. BTW thanks for the link.

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## Dobry

> I decided to work on my pronunciation and got some podcasts and Cambridge's "Pronunciation in Use". And all I get for my efforts is confusion.    
> Native speakers on that tapes pronounce "t" very clearly in some words like 'often', 'restaurant', etc. while I always thought it shouldn't be pronounced there. 
> I was tempted to brush it off as a 'British thing' but
> a) these are training tapes and presumedly they are to demonstrate standart pronunciation,
> b) on a podcast both Englishman _and_ American said 'often' (with 'T'). 
> I'm not going to change my habbits (yet  ) and to say it the same way but WHAT'S GOING ON? I'm just curious.  Is that an accent or it's common?

 
Much depends on whether you want to sound like a wealthy British person... or an Australian sheep-herder... or an American/Canadian attorney.    ::   
This is a regional difference in pronounciation... please remember that there are essentially 15+ pronounciation styles and dialects in English. 
"Often"... in the Midwest U.S. the "t" (after the "f") is not pronounced... if you pronounce it you will sound as a wealthy "dandy" from eastern America, Boston or British... you will sound much more natural (in America/Canada) if you pronounce it as "_ofen_".  Please trust me on this.  Don't pronounce the "t". 
"Restaurant"... I'm not sure which "t" you're referring to?  I assume the second "t"... pronounce both "t" 's... otherwise it is possible that you will sound uneducated.   
There are Southern U.S. dialects that soften the last "t".  This may be what you're hearing. 
If you're not from the South don't drop or try to soften that last "t"... it will not sound normal if you don't have a natural Southern accent. 
I wish I could produce "wave" files on this forum for examples, from my own speech. 
Use the Cambridge files, if you have no other option... but if you want to have British pronounciation, try to get BBC... if you want American/Canadian pronounciation, try to get CNN, Fox, or Voice of America. 
I'll dig up some American/Canadian .wav files for you, from good sources.  
P.S.  "habbit" should be "habit"  ::

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## translationsnmru

> You shouldn't use Soviet dictionaries. Use British/American dictionaries like Oxford, Cambridge, Longman, Webster, etc.

 Exactly.

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## translationsnmru

> "Restaurant"... I'm not sure which "t" you're referring to?  I assume the second "t"... pronounce both "t" 's... otherwise it is possible that you will sound uneducated.

 She means that  Soviet dictionaries (Muller etc)  insist that is should be pronounced as rest-RONG, approximating the French pronunciation. That's how they taught us to pronounce it when I was a schoolkid. Many schoolbooks and and English dictionaries published in Russia are so out of date that it isn't even funny. I can't even remember when I opened my copy of Muller... or, in fact, if I still have it - I find it _that_ useless.

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## gRomoZeka

> [...]
> "Restaurant"... I'm not sure which "t" you're referring to?  I assume the second "t"... pronounce both "t" 's... otherwise it is possible that you will sound uneducated.  
> [...]
> P.S.  "habbit" should be "habit"

 Thank you, Dobry.  
Both T's in 'restaurant'? Not one? I wonder now how many other usless things my school teacher taught me.   ::  
And yeah, I often write "habit" as "habbit". Probably have something to do with "hobbits".   ::    

> I can't even remember when I opened my copy of Muller... or, in fact, if I still have it - I find it that useless.

 I haven't used mine for years too. Actually I don't think Muller is so bad, it's just too big, I prefer electronic ones (Lingvo).

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## Dobry

> Originally Posted by Dobry  "Restaurant"... I'm not sure which "t" you're referring to?  I assume the second "t"... pronounce both "t" 's... otherwise it is possible that you will sound uneducated.     She means that  Soviet dictionaries (Muller etc)  insist that is should be pronounced as rest-RONG, approximating the French pronunciation. That's how they taught us to pronounce it when I was a schoolkid. Many schoolbooks and and English dictionaries published in Russia are so out of date that it isn't even funny. I can't even remember when I opened my copy of Muller... or, in fact, if I still have it - I find it _that_ useless.

 Wow... I didn't know!     ::

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## basurero

> I decided to work on my pronunciation and got some podcasts and Cambridge's "Pronunciation in Use". And all I get for my efforts is confusion.    
> Native speakers on that tapes pronounce "t" very clearly in some words like 'often', 'restaurant', etc. while I always thought it shouldn't be pronounced there. 
> I was tempted to brush it off as a 'British thing' but
> a) these are training tapes and presumedly they are to demonstrate standart pronunciation,
> b) on a podcast both Englishman _and_ American said 'often' (with 'T'). 
> I'm not going to change my habbits (yet  ) and to say it the same way but WHAT'S GOING ON? I'm just curious.  Is that an accent or it's common?

 То, что сказал Добры хорошо, но я бы сказал, что не надо волноваться о том, как ты произносишь эти слова. Ныне английский язык отличается в такой большой степени, что никто не заметит, использовал ли ты один или другой вариант.

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## Dobry

> , но я бы сказал, что не надо волноваться о том, как ты произносишь эти слова. Ныне английский язык отличается в такой большой степени, что никто не заметит, использовал ли ты один или другой вариант.

 Basurero, I disagree.  One word, misunderstood... can destroy a business deal.  Please, let us talk more about American business hiring... Consider it a game... you may prove this American wrong.    ::   
I respect you very much... but in Western Business, words... each word... becomes very important.  gRomoZeka's language will be judged by those people who are deciding to hire her, or work with her.  Her English has a  good chance of a job or contract.   
gRomoZeka...  if you have a pro-translator to work for you, then great... otherwise I feel like you have a team of translators and linguists to help you translate and 'sell' your thoughts ideas, and words to Westerners.  
I'm here for you, as I'm to help Basurero and a few other people, if they want help.   You have a team helping you.   ::  
Please no worries... all manifestations will be consisdered legititamate and real...and kind,

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## Zeo

There are many words I can think of where this kind of thing happens. Not just with Ts, but Ill name them to make a point. 
Some people say "wolf" (with the L) and some people say "woof." Some people say "clothes" (with a soft TH) and some people say "close" (ignoring it all together). There are different ways to pronounce some of those things, but I think they are right either way. 
I say "ofTen." Im not weird, and no one thinks I speak sub standard or unhirable english. In a lot of words that have two Ts in a row, a lot of people will say them in a way that completely ignores them. Instead of kit-ten, they say ki-en. It sounds more...I dont know, natural than to hear a forced "kit-ten" where both Ts are pronounced and prominent. Its just an interesting thing with pronounciation and what english speakers (in my region of america, atleast, I cant speak for other english regions or countries) are used to hearing. But thats an example (although different from your question) of different but legitmate pronounciations.

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## gRomoZeka

> I'm here for you, as I'm to help Basurero and a few other people, if they want help.   You have a team helping you.

 Спасибо, Dobry, ты очень добр.   ::     

> I say "ofTen." Im not weird, and no one thinks I speak sub standard or unhirable english. In a lot of words that have two Ts in a row, a lot of people will say them in a way that completely ignores them. Instead of kit-ten, they say ki-en. It sounds more...I dont know, natural than to hear a forced "kit-ten" where both Ts are pronounced and prominent. Its just an interesting thing with pronounciation and what english speakers (in my region of america, atleast, I cant speak for other english regions or countries) are used to hearing. But thats an example (although different from your question) of different but legitmate pronounciations.

 It's very interesting, Zeo. I think little things like that are important, but you hardly can learn them from books.

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## charlestonian

*Don't be egerent - learn up sum new wods today*
An ongoing work please sends in your Southern/Redneck words to be encluded Dictionary@bubbaandclem.com   ::

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## Dobry

> *Don't be egerent - learn up sum new wods today*
> An ongoing work please sends in your Southern/Redneck words to be encluded Dictionary@bubbaandclem.com

   ::  !!!

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## chaika

glottal stop. 
Varying by region and even by word, the sound /t/ may or not be present in words. In my speech (midwest US - Chicago suburban to be exact) it's like this. Between vowels /t/ is replaced by /d/. (See ya lader alligader!) It is often (I don't pronounce it in this word) replaced by a glottal stop in final position. Let's represent da gloddal stop using da symbol " . 
Wha"? I hear you say. Where ja come up with the info ta make that sta"men"? In a restauran"? Gimme the faks strai". No need to sofen 'em up for me. I'm oudda here. I need a drink a wadder.... Ware'd tha" Dasani go .... 
=:^0

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## Dobry

> glottal stop. 
> Varying by region and even by word, the sound /t/ may or not be present in words. In my speech (midwest US - Chicago suburban to be exact) it's like this. Between vowels /t/ is replaced by /d/. (See ya lader alligader!) It is often (I don't pronounce it in this word) replaced by a glottal stop in final position. Let's represent da gloddal stop using da symbol " . 
> Wha"? I hear you say. Where ja come up with the info ta make that sta"men"? In a restauran"? Gimme the faks strai". No need to sofen 'em up for me. I'm oudda here. I need a drink a wadder.... Ware'd tha" Dasani go .... 
> =:^0

 Chaika, our Linguist is with us now.     ::   
I'm still pulling for the soft t's from the South... but Chaika, this is your show.    ::    Teach us, please, we need your help.

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## Joel

I almost always hear the T pronounced in the word "often"...hell, I can't think of a word where one doesn't say the T.  Although it could be because of where I'm from.  It sounds very strange to me without the T.  By the way, I am from western Illinois.

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## Dobry

> There are many words I can think of where this kind of thing happens. Not just with Ts, but Ill name them to make a point. 
> Some people say "wolf" (with the L) and some people say "woof." Some people say "clothes" (with a soft TH) and some people say "close" (ignoring it all together). There are different ways to pronounce some of those things, but I think they are right either way. 
> I say "ofTen." Im not weird, and no one thinks I speak sub standard or unhirable english. In a lot of words that have two Ts in a row, a lot of people will say them in a way that completely ignores them. Instead of kit-ten, they say ki-en. It sounds more...I dont know, natural than to hear a forced "kit-ten" where both Ts are pronounced and prominent. Its just an interesting thing with pronounciation and what english speakers (in my region of america, atleast, I cant speak for other english regions or countries) are used to hearing. But thats an example (although different from your question) of different but legitmate pronounciations.

 "OfTen" is _not_ weird... but it _can_ sound that you think you are better and more educated than the group you are with... especially in bars/pubs... there are many different pronounciations and dialects... and MUCH depends on your own dialect and pronounciation... if your pronounciation sounds natural, depending where you are.  "OfTen" for example is certainly O.K, and it is correct English... but there are locations in the U.S... certain urban areas... where pronouncing the "t" would be considered  "showy"... "ostentatious"... "Ivy League" ... i.e. you'd get a big whooping, possibly a fight.  Charlestonian and others (I hope    ::  )  will back me up on this. 
If you strengthen your "t"'s, and adjust your speech in certain urban areas of the U.S.... you will be asking for a fight... or worse. 
Me?  I would play safe and soften the "t". 
This is an important difference in my opinion, between British English, and Canadian/American English. 
Ultimate lesson... soften or strengthen your speech depending where you are.  Be true to yourself and your language... but use "street smarts" and be careful... don't try to sound like a Yank, when you're in the U.S., Europe, or in New Orleans... and don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.     ::   
Useful advice for street survival in the U.S.    
Similar advice for what I'm trying to say... "if you are in the woods... don't leave candy outside for the bears."  And... "when you're riding the Metro... don't leave your wallet hanging from your pocket." 
I'm trying to think of some Russian equivalents...  _My advice is the equivalent of advice of three, very close, Russian friends, from many years ago... "do not try to sound or be Russian... because you are not.  Be who you truly are.  We like you, for who you truly are."_

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## VendingMachine

> Ultimate lesson... soften or strengthen your speech depending where you are. Be true to yourself and your language... but use "street smarts" and be careful... don't try to sound like a Yank, when you're in the U.S., Europe, or in New Orleans... and don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.

 You're an idiot if you think that many chavs in Russia (or Western Europe for that matter) will tell by your accent in English that you're from Texas. If you get a whooping it won't be on account of your Texan accent, it will be on account of your American accent (for chavs with PhD in linguistics) or simply for sounding foreign (for 99.9999% of the chavs you might encounter). The world is much bigger than you think.

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## charlestonian

> Ultimate lesson... soften or strengthen your speech depending where you are. Be true to yourself and your language... but use "street smarts" and be careful... don't try to sound like a Yank, when you're in the U.S., Europe, or in New Orleans... and don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.
> 			
> 		  You're an idiot if you think that many chavs in Russia (or Western Europe for that matter) will tell by your accent in English that you're from Texas. If you get a whooping it won't be on account of your Texan accent, it will be on account of your American accent (for chavs with PhD in linguistics) or simply for sounding foreign (for 99.9999% of the chavs you might encounter). The world is much bigger than you think.

 What the hell is "chavs?"  ::

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## Dobry

> Ultimate lesson... soften or strengthen your speech depending where you are. Be true to yourself and your language... but use "street smarts" and be careful... don't try to sound like a Yank, when you're in the U.S., Europe, or in New Orleans... and don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.
> 			
> 		  You're an idiot if you think that many chavs in Russia (or Western Europe for that matter) will tell by your accent in English that you're from Texas. If you get a whooping it won't be on account of your Texan accent, it will be on account of your American accent (for chavs with PhD in linguistics) or simply for sounding foreign (for 99.9999% of the chavs you might encounter). The world is much bigger than you think.

 VM... 
You missed the point completely, and you're traveling on an off-topic tangent now... I said _nothing_ about English-speakers traveling or living in Russia.  I wrote specifically about living and working in the U.S. 
...this discussion forum is specifically _English for Russians_... I was addressing native Russians living, working, speaking in England, U.S, Canada, Australia, etc.... not Americans living, working and speaking in Russia.   
Anyway... the point is that even native English speakers need to be careful with English dialects in certain areas of the U.S.  If I sound harsh about certain areas of the U.S... I'm sorry... but it's for safety reasons, and common sense here. 
Enough said... I'm giving a solid here... if you want to get yourself into dangerous situations, here in the U.S...   ::

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## VendingMachine

For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav

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## VendingMachine

> I wrote specifically about living and working in the U.S. ....  I was addressing native Russians living, working, speaking in England, U.S, Canada, Australia, etc....

 That was only half of what you wrote.   

> I said _nothing_ about English-speakers traveling or living in Russia.... not Americans living, working and speaking in Russia.

 Oh really? Shall I rewind to the place where you were saying the following:  

> don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.

 Why would a Russian person want to sound like a Texan when in Russia/Europe? And if he/she does, why will it be worse than, say, sounding like someone from Chicago? No one in those parts (Russia/Europe) will see any frikkin difference other than the person sounds like an American (if their accent is THAT good).

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## Dobry

> Originally Posted by Dobry  I wrote specifically about living and working in the U.S. ....  I was addressing native Russians living, working, speaking in England, U.S, Canada, Australia, etc....   That was only half of what you wrote.        Originally Posted by Dobry  I said _nothing_ about English-speakers traveling or living in Russia.... not Americans living, working and speaking in Russia.   Oh really? Shall I rewind to the place where you were saying the following:    
> 			
> 				don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.
> 			
> 		  Why would a Russian person want to sound like a Texan when in Russia/Europe? And if he/she does, why will it be worse than, say, sounding like someone from Chicago? No one in those parts (Russia/Europe) will see any frikkin difference other than the person sounds like an American (if their accent is THAT good).

 I was referring to Americans, or anyone, trying to use a _false_ accent... this was my intent and meaning.   
VM... you've got a real chip on your shoulder... I don't know where it comes from or why it exists... anyway, please try to show respect toward other people.  
I've never called you an idiot... no person on this forum should ever be called an idiot.  We're all trying to learn from each other. 
Also, Charlestonian asked a legitimate question... you, instead of answering in a kind way, you chose to stab him.   
He asked an honest question... you stabbed him.  I don't understand your attitude... I don't understand your hate.

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## charlestonian

> For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav

 "For crying out loud" :: , this is a British expression ("*Chav* is a derogatory slang term in the *United Kingdom* which appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005[1][2"), and I have never heard it in the USA. Kill me.

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## Dobry

> Originally Posted by VendingMachine  For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav   "For crying out loud", this is a British expression ("*Chav* is a derogatory slang term in the *United Kingdom* which appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005[1][2"), and I have never heard it in the USA. Kill me.

  ::  
I've heard it only once or twice... in pubs.

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## charlestonian

> Ultimate lesson... soften or strengthen your speech depending where you are. Be true to yourself and your language... but use "street smarts" and be careful... don't try to sound like a Yank, when you're in the U.S., Europe, or in New Orleans... and don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.
> 			
> 		  You're an idiot if you think that many chavs in Russia (or Western Europe for that matter) will tell by your accent in English that you're from Texas. If you get a whooping it won't be on account of your Texan accent, it will be on account of your American accent (for chavs with PhD in linguistics) or simply for sounding foreign (for 99.9999% of the chavs you might encounter). The world is much bigger than you think.

 I think you owe Dobry an apology  ::

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by VendingMachine  For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav   "For crying out loud", this is a British expression ("*Chav* is a derogatory slang term in the *United Kingdom* which appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005[1][2"), and I have never heard it in the USA. Kill me.

 My for crying out loud was not about your not knowing the word "chav", it was in reference to the fact that you've got the Internet at your fingertips yet you couldn't be arsed (another British expression) to frikkin well use it! Anyone would've got the answer just like that but no, not our mister charlestonian, he's too lazy to use Google. 
PS On second thoughts, your avatar explains it.

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## charlestonian

> Originally Posted by charlestonian        Originally Posted by VendingMachine  For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav   "For crying out loud", this is a British expression ("*Chav* is a derogatory slang term in the *United Kingdom* which appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005[1][2"), and I have never heard it in the USA. Kill me.   My for crying out loud was not about your not knowing the word "chav", it was in reference to the fact that you've got the Internet at your fingertips yet you couldn't be arsed (another British expression) to frikkin well use it! Anyone would've got the answer just like that but no, not our mister charlestonian, he's too lazy to use Google. 
> PS On second thoughts, your avatar explains it.

 Your insults are absolutely uncalled for.

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## Vincent Tailors

When you encounter an unfamiliar word, just "wikipedia" it and you'll get a fine and deep explanation...

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## shadow1

> Originally Posted by VendingMachine        Originally Posted by charlestonian        Originally Posted by VendingMachine  For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav   "For crying out loud", this is a British expression ("*Chav* is a derogatory slang term in the *United Kingdom* which appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005[1][2"), and I have never heard it in the USA. Kill me.   My for crying out loud was not about your not knowing the word "chav", it was in reference to the fact that you've got the Internet at your fingertips yet you couldn't be arsed (another British expression) to frikkin well use it! Anyone would've got the answer just like that but no, not our mister charlestonian, he's too lazy to use Google. 
> PS On second thoughts, your avatar explains it.   Your insults are absolutely uncalled for.

 chav

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## Dobry

MasterAdmin, 
I think the question sits with you.   
Certain members of the forum are searching for creative ways to insult and hurt other forum members... the use of "chav" is the latest, and it is an insult in colloquial English. 
What is board policy?  Allow insults to pass freely between all the cultures that use these forums?  "Chav", in my opinion, is used specifically in this thread as an insult to cause a insultive reaction on the forum... and "Chav" is NOT being used for humor, NOR for education. 
Will these forums cease to become a method of learning languages, political/cultural/social debate... and instead devolve into name-calling and hate-driven insults among some of the members? 
Disagreement and debate, for education and learning are good... but there needs to be an element of intercultural moderation... and respect for each member.  "Chav" doesn't cut it, in my opinion.

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## Dobry

> chav

 Shadow1??  Are you wanting to join in the insults also?

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## VendingMachine

> Originally Posted by shadow1  chav   Shadow1??  Are you wanting to join in the insults also?

 (c)For crying out loud, Dobry, didn't you see that it was a link to Urban Dictionary? shadow1 gave you a link to this page - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chav&r=f It explains the meaning of "chav". OK, shadow1 was a bit late in providing a link to an explanation of the word chav, but you cannot blame him for that. I'm sure you noticed that the word "chav" in shadow1's post was in a funny colour - that made me think and instead of throwing a tantrum, I rolled my mouse pointer over it and discovered it was a link. Either you're still somewhat unversed in the ways the interface on this forum works or you're simply being mean towards shadow1. I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt.

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## scotcher

The idea that a Russian should tailor his pronunciation to the vagaries of the English dialect specific to his destination is quite ammusing, and it's one that keeps coming up, but I can assure you it would be totally pointless in 99% of situations.  
Not dropping the 't' in 'often' (or whatever other minor dialectical distinction you care to mention) isn't going to mark you as an outsider, your blindingly obvious thick foreign accent is! No-one is going to hear a non-local-standard pronunciation behind that! 
Even if your English pronunciation is 'perfect', at best you are going to sound like an English-speaker from some other part of the English-speaking world. 
Either way, at no point is anyone ever going to hold that 't' against you.

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## gRomoZeka

> The idea that a Russian should tailor his pronunciation to the vagaries of the English dialect specific to his destination is quite ammusing, and it's one that keeps coming up, but I can assure you it would be totally pointless in 99% of situations.  
> [...] 
> Either way, at no point is anyone ever going to hold that 't' against you.

 Glad to hear that.  
And thanks for staying ON TOPIC, *scotcher*!   ::

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## VendingMachine

Scotcher, that was the best post to come out of you for years. You hit the nail on the head.

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## Dobry

> Originally Posted by scotcher  The idea that a Russian should tailor his pronunciation to the vagaries of the English dialect specific to his destination is quite ammusing, and it's one that keeps coming up, but I can assure you it would be totally pointless in 99% of situations.  
> [...] 
> Either way, at no point is anyone ever going to hold that 't' against you.   Glad to hear that.  
> And thanks for staying ON TOPIC, *scotcher*!

 And I agree... this was my original point.  Don't try to tailor your English to the destination... but be aware there are dangers in certain dialects and usage, in certain areas of the English-speaking world.  Use "street smarts", "common sense".  
Use a word wrongly... wrong location... wrong pronounciation... in the wrong way or tone... can cause misunderderstandings, problems, and fights.  This happens all over the world.    ::   
Don't go trying to hug and show love to a polar bear with her cubs.    ::   
I've stopped, controlled, and calmed many barfights, all over the world, from these misunderstandings.  And I've never called anyone an 'idiot' in the process. 
I'm sorry, but this is a reality in multi-linguistic environments.    ::

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## Dobry

> chav

 Shadow1... 
Please accept my apology.  I saw the word, but did not notice that it was a hyperlink for a definition.  You were trying to teach.  
This was my mistake.  I'm sorry.

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## scotcher

> Use a word wrongly... wrong location... wrong pronounciation... in the wrong way or tone... can cause misunderderstandings, problems, and fights.  This happens all over the world.     
> I'm sorry, but this is a reality in a multi-linguistic environment.

 Can you describe an example where a foreigner using a slightly non-standard pronunciation of an English word could conceivably cause anything more than a very slight missunderstanding?

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## Dobry

> Originally Posted by Dobry  
> Use a word wrongly... wrong location... wrong pronounciation... in the wrong way or tone... can cause misunderderstandings, problems, and fights.  This happens all over the world.     
> I'm sorry, but this is a reality in a multi-linguistic environment.      Can you describe an example where a foreigner using a slightly non-standard pronunciation of an English word could conceivably cause anything more than a very slight missunderstanding?

 "Wanker" immediately comes to mind...  
Several drunk touring Americans, several drunk Scots, sitting in a Madrid pub... situation getting out of control... there was a football game... Liverpool/ Chelsea I remember... the Scots were trying to 'explain' football to the Yanks... the Yanks were getting insulted (drunk as they were), and misinterpreted several of the words... Scots got insulted... they all took it outside on a side street in Madrid, outside my local watering hole.   
English, all English, but in opposing dialects... nasty fight began... it took several of us, including 3 English teachers, to calm it down between the Scots and the Yanks.  A few bloody noses, cuts, and bruises nothing more serious.  But my best mate got hit and hurt.   
No reason for it.  No reason for any of the violence.  And it was all because of language misunderstandings.   
This is mild... but I've seen much worse, much of it caused by language misunderstanding.  I won't discuss them here.

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## VendingMachine

> "Wanker" immediately comes to mind...

 So what was the misunderstanding? If someone's calling you a wanker, your fist should rightfully and forcefully connect with that person's jaw. 
What you fail to realise, Dobry, is that what applies to situations that arise in conversations among native speakers doesn't apply to situations with language learners. In those cases it is blatantly obvious that the speaker is a foreigner . At worst he will embarrass himself. Besides, it isn't possible for a language learner to use "street smarts" as you chose to call them for he/she lacks the language confidence and proficiency as well as the phonetics of a native speaker that those "street smarts" require. His foreign accent/choice of words etc. will be sticking out like a sore thumb anyway. 
PS One might as well picture the following dialogue
between a French visiting student (FVS) and a Yorkshire Farmer called Giles (YFCG): 
FVS: Ow ofTen duss eet rain 'ere in zee summer?
YFCG: Say wha'?!
FVS: Ow ofTen duss eet...
YFCG: Wha'? Ya foockin toff of a posh, stoock oop foreign poof!

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## VendingMachine

Dobry, in case you didn't know, most Russians are nails and aren't afraid of getting into a pub brawl or two (the knuckledusters on my both hands are making it very hard for me to type, so please excuse my typoes). Yet somehow most of us have managed to enjoy our pints while speaking our broken English completely unaware of those mysterious "street smarts" and without getting into any sort of bother.

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## Dobry

> I don't search for fights... while you enjoy your fight, I will walk home with a good woman.

 This was a short-shot from me...  I'm not sure you know what it is to be in a serious fight... watch a friend die, or a friend dying.   I never want to wish this thought on anyone.  I'm sorry. 
Go in peace, VM.

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## scotcher

> "Wanker" immediately comes to mind...

 Are you offering an example, or calling me names?  ::    

> Several drunk touring Americans, several drunk Scots, sitting in a Madrid pub... situation getting out of control... there was a football game... Liverpool/ Chelsea I remember... the Scots were trying to 'explain' football to the Yanks... the Yanks were getting insulted (drunk as they were), and misinterpreted several of the words... Scots got insulted... they all took it outside on a side street in Madrid, outside my local watering hole.   
> English, all English, but in opposing dialects... nasty fight began... it took several of us, including 3 English teachers, to calm it down between the Scots and the Yanks.  A few bloody noses, cuts, and bruises nothing more serious.  But my best mate got hit and hurt.   
> No reason for it.  No reason for any of the violence.  And it was all because of language misunderstandings.

 I don't buy that it was because of a language misunderstanding. I'd say it had more to do with  
a) No-one likes a drunk Yank.
b) Drunk Scots like everyone _except_ drunk English and drunk Yanks, whom they despise.
c) Drunk people are violent and tribal.
b) Young male Brits seem to like to fight when they're abroad and drunk.
e) Nothing in the history of the universe has ever been more likely to start an argument than a European discussing football with an American. 
Now, I could believe that a language misunderstanding provided the initial spark than started the conflagration, but I doubt that it directly _caused_ it. With those ingredients, a 'square-go' was always going to be the unavoidable end result. 
What your anecdote actually tells us is that it is better to avoid groups of drunk people, Scots in particular, which may well me universally good advice, but has little to do with language.  ::    

> This is mild... but I've seen much worse, much of it caused by language misunderstanding.  I won't discuss them here.

 Then don't discuss them here, make one up instead. Invent a situation where a foreigner using a slightly non-local-standard pronunciation (the 't' in often, or the second 'i' in 'aluminium', the 'r' in 'world', etc etc) would cause any sort of discord, ruckus, or grave offence.

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## VendingMachine

> I'm not sure you know what it is to be in a serious fight...

 You think you're nails and have been in many fights, but the fact is you haven't been in any if you believe they start because of a foreigner failing to use "street smarts" on top of his thick foreign accent. _This_ is how fights start: 
A: Oi! Are you looking at me?
B: No, I wasn't...
A: What did you say?
B: I didn't say anything...
A: What, you f...in' starting?!

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## Dobry

> Originally Posted by Dobry  
> "Wanker" immediately comes to mind...   Are you offering an example, or calling me names?

   ::   Alcohol-fueled fights are often started by misunderstandings.  And yes, some of them that I was in were because of hate and anger.  Dialects were the excuse... but the wrong words were the "gasoline on the fire."

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## Dobry

> Originally Posted by Dobry  I'm not sure you know what it is to be in a serious fight...   You think you're nails and have been in many fights, but the fact is you haven't been in any if you believe they start because of a foreigner failing to use "street smarts" on top of his thick foreign accent. _This_ is how fights start: 
> A: Oi! Are you looking at me?
> B: No, I wasn't...
> A: What did you say?
> B: I didn't say anything...
> A: What, you f...in' starting?!

 You haven't lived in many places in the world, have you VM??   
Are you recommending don't use "street smarts", wherever you are in the world??  Now, you only want to argue. 
There are many places that I'm not welcome because I'm an American... and there were fights in some places only because I possess an American accent.  I'm not going to discuss my scars with you.  You don't know me... you don't know where I've been, and what I've seen. 
And no matter what I say, you will always disagree, you will always argue with me... even if I treat you with a mother's kindness.  So, again, bye.   ::

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## VendingMachine

> You haven't lived in many places in the world, have you VM??

 Actually, I have.   

> Are you recommending don't use "street smarts", wherever you are in the world??

 Yes, I am. I am recommending don't stuff your head with BS because as a language learner you will always be identified by your accent and your so-called "street smarts" require the fluency and command of a native speaker to roll off your tongue naturally. Stick to just learning the language the way thousands have done before.   

> There are many places that I'm not welcome because I'm an American... and there were fights in some places only because I possess an American accent.

 So why didn't you drop a "street smart" or two? I'm sure a streetwise expression in the local vernacular laced with your thick foreign accent would've done the trick, LOL.   

> And no matter what I say, you will always disagree, you will always argue with me...

 If you keep saying things I disagree with, I certainly will. Why am I agreeing with Scotcher?

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## Dobry

VM, 
I'm glad you and Scotcher agree... the stuff of friendships. 
I'm sorry that you and I disagree, and that you dislike me so much. 
Friendships are often born from disagreement and dislike.  These can be the most true. 
Anyway, if you are ever near my home... the door is open... there's food... you are always welcome... we can debate, discuss and argue... and you'll have a safe place to sleep.  Please don't take this lightly... it's sincere from the heart, and from respect.

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## scotcher

> Why am I agreeing with Scotcher?

 Only 'cos you can't logically argue with both me and Dobry at the same time, and you were arguing with him first. 
You gimboid.

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## VendingMachine

> Only 'cos you can't logically argue with both me and Dobry at the same time, and you were arguing with him first. 
> You gimboid.

 Logically? When did I care for logic? Goit.

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