Thread: Hi from JoeBirmingham, USA - OLD BEAKER ??

It seems off they would have selected this cup. The figures on the cup don't look asian. ??

Originally Posted by JoeBirmingham

It seems off they would have selected this cup. The figures on the cup don't look asian. ??

Well, think of it from the point-of-view of a foreign tourist (or in this case, a long-term resident foreigner who was getting ready to pack up and leave because the Communists had taken over).

If you were visiting Nigeria, for example, you wouldn't buy a souvenir cup with images of Chinese people on the Great Wall; you'd want a cup with images of elephants and/or black people in traditional African tribal costumes, to show "folks back home" what Nigeria looks like.

P.S. I would guess that the figures on the cup are intended to be bogatyri -- that is, semi-legendary, larger-than-life knights of medieval Russian folklore. Check out the picture at the wikipedia article and compare it to the guys on your cup! Needless to say, there were never any bogatyri in Vladivostok (which, as I said, was Chinese-dominated until the second half of the 19th century).

So this is just a little bit like putting Robin Hood and his Merry Men on a souvenir cup from Canada -- yes, Canada was settled by English people, and Robin Hood himself was English. But Mr. Hood supposedly lived during the reign of Richard the Lionhearted, who died almost 300 years before Columbus reached the Americas! Historically, Vladivostok had as much to do with the bogatyri as Canada had to do with Robin Hood (namely, nothing). But souvenirs like this are about national pride and cultural symbolism, not about historic accuracy.

Good point. But since this was a gift between fellow countrymen it seems odd. You have been a great help. With your kind assistance I have gleaned enought information to list the cup on ebay. If you have a minute (and are interested) you might want to check me for accuracy. Also, I gave you a information byline. Shortcut Antique Sterling 1926 RUSSIAN BEAKER CUP Japanese Gift - eBay (item 180694332357 end time Jul-17-11 18:34:09 PDT)

Also, a friend of my sister wrote me and suggested "the first line of Russian that your friend sites below (HA DOBRYIU .....) means “to the beloved memory of the regiment of Daito (name of leader), followed by the names of his warriors." What do you think? Thanks, JoeBirmingham

P.S. That map in my previous post is from the wikipedia article on the Russo-Japanese War, and the reddish areas represent what was historically "Manchuria."

The Trans-Siberian Railroad passed through the city of Harbin (in the dark-red area) on its way to Vladivostok, and Japan offered to let Russia keep "Northern Manchuria" as far south as Harbin (thus preserving Russian rail access to Vladivostok), if Russia were willing to let Japan have all of "Southern Manchuria" (including the Dalian peninsula, and Port Arthur). Oh, and the Japanese also wanted the entire Korean peninsula, too.

However, Vladivostok's harbor freezes in the winter, while the Port Arthur harbor is usable year-round -- so the Russians had no interest in Japan's "peaceful partition of Manchuria."

And so, in the face of such unreasonable stubbornness from the Russian side, the peace-loving Japanese had no choice but to launch a sneak attack on the Russian Navy at Port Arthur.

(American historians today might say that Port Arthur was a "beta test" version of Pearl Harbor, while Russian historians might say that Pearl Harbor was "Port Arthur 2.0")

Wow, great information. You must have a genuine interest in history. I will pas this on to the rest of the group helping me translate the cup's inscription. I have received some great interest to the cup via ebay. They are probably family members who know their ancestors were in the area. I may eventually get some of the story from them also. I will let you know. Thanks, again. Joe

Oh, thanks for the byline on ebay, and good luck with the auction!

By the way, after looking at the actual photo of the engraving, and doing a few minutes of Googling, I can say with confidence that ALL the names are Japanese. In your top post on this thread, you had made a couple typos in the Russian -- so that "Kondo" came out as "Kodo", which is a Japanese word, but is not used as a family name. But when I did Google searches with the corrected spellings, it turned out that they're all common Japanese surnames.

So you might want to edit the spellings on your ebay listing: "From Hayashi, Yakushiji, Iwahashi, Nakayama, Arisaka, and Kondo".

if the Chinese called it ... "big disgusting slimy warty sea-cock", nobody would eat it.

Actually, this isn't true.

У китайцев привычно есть трепанг ИМЕННО ПОТОМУ, ЧТО он похож на большой ху фаллос. Значит, по принципу "симпатической магии", он считается полезно для мужского полового здоровья. В двух словах -- "морская Виагра"!

(Chinese people eat sea-cucumber PRECISELY BECAUSE it looks like a big phallus. So, by the principle of "sympathetic magic", it's considered beneficial for male sexual health. In two words: "sea Viagra"!)

Китайские друзья дали мне понять, что в природной состоянии, "морской огурец" не имеет никакого вкуса -- поэтому, в азиятских кухнях, чаще всего потовят его в остром соусе. Я лишь раз попробовал трепанг в китайском ресторане, и соус был очень вкусен -- остро-сладкий, с чесноком. Однако сам трепанг был чуть-чуть "слизистым" на язычке.

(Chinese friends have led me to believe that in its natural state, sea-cucumber has almost no flavor -- therefore, in Asian cuisines, it's usually cooked in a spicy sauce. I've tried "trepang" only once in a Chinese restaurant, and the sauce was delicious -- hot-and-sweet, with garlic. But the sea-cucumber itself was a little bit slimy on the tongue.)