Thread: Sochi 2014 - Olympic Winter Games (official site)

I've noticed that there is essentially a "soviet" attitude to criticism of Russia on this site. Critics are accused of being informed by the biased western media. The absurd "Foreign Agent" tag is symptomatic of this paranoia. It shows that some in Russia still have a foot in the past. This is a shame because you can't move forward properly like this.

In fact, I get most of my information about Russia from the Russian media and from meeting Russians.

I invite you to ask yourselves this question: if the Magnitsky scandal had never happened, if there had been no Magnitsky Law in the US, would Russia have still banned Americans from adopting Russian children? In my view, no. The ban was a direct riposte to the Americans - it was cold-war "tit-for-tat". It logically follows from this that the motive for passing a new Russian law which directly affects (and in my opinion, negatively affects) the lives of thousands of Russian children has nothing to do with childcare or improving their prospects: it was passed solely because a country far away passed a law which itself had nothing to do with childcare. This is irresponsible and very very sad, because the only real victims in this are the Russian orphans.

Originally Posted by edvalais

In fact, I get most of my information about Russia from the Russian media and from meeting Russians.

Russian media is also biased. But that's beside the point. I don't even care how or why this law about 'foreign agents' was effected. To my personal opinion this blocks the outside propaganda messages and if it works - fine. What IS propaganda? It's an appeal to emotions of not very bright people. Thinking and smart people will see through the propaganda and know its value, but we have stupid people here too. When they are said 'This HONESTY, Inc Ogranization's experts proven that Russian government is very-very bad' - well that's one message. And another one 'This Foreitn Agent 'Honesty, Inc' Organization's experts proven ...." - that's quite another one.
I insist that the Russian government should have the only and monopolized right of brainwashing its own population. No one else should be allowed. (I'm not joking, I'm dead serious)

Originally Posted by edvalais

I invite you to ask yourselves this question: if the Magnitsky scandal had never happened, if there had been no Magnitsky Law in the US, would Russia have still banned Americans from adopting Russian children? In my view, no. The ban was a direct riposte to the Americans - it was cold-war "tit-for-tat". It logically follows from this that the motive for passing a new Russian law which directly affects (and in my opinion, negatively affects) the lives of thousands of Russian children has nothing to do with childcare or improving their prospects: it was passed solely because a country far away passed a law which itself had nothing to do with childcare. This is irresponsible and very very sad, because the only real victims in this are the Russian orphans.

That's one point of view. The ban was a direct riposte to the Americans indeed, so what? You sound as if there was something bad in it.
As for the 'horrors of a Russian orphanage' - that's still remains questionable is it so hellish being an orphan in Russia and is it so good being an adopted by a couple of foreigners.
And again, even if this was not intended, the number of domestic adoptions has increased since the ban. That's good.

Originally Posted by Ramil

The ban was a direct riposte to the Americans indeed, so what? You sound as if there was something bad in it.

Yes, there is "something bad in it". If a parliament passes a law which affects orphans, I'd like to think that the primary motive is to improve their lives. The only motive here was symbolic - to attack a very small group of Americans. It is an indication of the type of people who sit in the Duma that they were quite prepared to use Russian orphans - some of them handicapped - as pawns in their silly game.

Getting back to the Olympics, I wonder what the long-term impact will be? What perception will remain of your country? Here in Switzerland it has very much focused people's minds on the central role played by Putin. The night before the opening ceremony there was a documentary on Swiss television which discussed his supposedly vast fortune. For many of the Swiss I speak to, Putin and Russia are synonymous. If, as some people claim, Putin is corrupt, what does that say about the country he runs? The answer I get on this site from Russians is a shrug of the shoulders: "So what? What if billions of dollars have been wasted in bribes on the Olympics? What if handicapped Russian orphans have to stay in the orphanage? мне наплевать!"

I'll start from the end of your message:

Originally Posted by edvalais

What if handicapped Russian orphans have to stay in the orphanage? мне наплевать!

More or less that's true, I don't give a @#$! about starving children in Africa, dying wild nature and other terrible things. Well, when I hear somebody tells me about it I'll agree 'How awful! What a shame! Tsk, tsk, tsk..." but that's about all I would do. I found out that many people in the world try to look like they do care (you, for example - how exactly corrupted Putin poisons your existence?)

Originally Posted by edvalais

Yes, there is "something bad in it". If a parliament passes a law which affects orphans, I'd like to think that the primary motive is to improve their lives. The only motive here was symbolic - to attack a very small group of Americans. It is an indication of the type of people who sit in the Duma that they were quite prepared to use Russian orphans - some of them handicapped - as pawns in their silly game.

Well... First, the law about orphans should have been passed long ago (that's my opinion). Second, if the Duma found it convenient to pass this law AND to attack some group of Americans - I don't care either. Third, and the most important: there is a common misconception about Putin's being an absolute monarch here. That's not true. Despite his seemingly authoritarian style of government, quite often the domestic affairs are decided (much to my disappointment) not by him but by the government officials and the Duma. Generally, our Duma is not overly bright and sometimes passes laws that are either not going to work or simply self-contradictory. Russia is NOT Putin and Putin is NOT Russia. Relax.

Originally Posted by edvalais

Getting back to the Olympics, I wonder what the long-term impact will be? What perception will remain of your country?

Oh, they will soon forget about the Olympics. I'm sure Putin will do something more terrible to talk about.

Originally Posted by edvalais

Here in Switzerland it has very much focused people's minds on the central role played by Putin. The night before the opening ceremony there was a documentary on Swiss television which discussed his supposedly vast fortune. For many of the Swiss I speak to, Putin and Russia are synonymous.

What? The Swiss do care about Russia? They saw one 40 min. biased documentary and dare to judge? Come on! That reaction is the same as mine (tsk, tsk, tsk). People DO NOT care about anything outside their house/street/town/country.

Originally Posted by edvalais

What if billions of dollars have been wasted in bribes on the Olympics?

I watched a documentary stating that many of the IOC officials in the past were former Nazis. I read in a newspaper that the bribes at the Olympic bid of 1988 were as astronomical as they supposedly were in Sochi. Same with Nogano, Albertville, Salt Lake city, etc.

Besides, let's speak about facts. We don't know how big were the bribes, we don't even know if they were actually paid. We know that the Russian government has spent about 50 billion dollars during the last 7 years to prepare the site for the Olympics. They didn't include the bribes in the budget or did they? And what YOUR interest in those amounts? Envious that you're not the member of the IOC?

Originally Posted by Ramil

I don't give a @#$! about starving children in Africa, dying wild nature and other terrible things.

Let's be positive: what DO you give a @#$! about? Money? Sex? Having the latest iPhone?

Originally Posted by edvalais

Let's be positive: what DO you give a @#$! about? Money? Sex? Having the latest iPhone?

Let's say the continued well being of me and my family.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Let's say the continued well being of me and my family.

So you don't quite perform the full Russian striptease - you leave something on...

Originally Posted by edvalais

I've noticed that there is essentially a "soviet" attitude to criticism of Russia on this site. Critics are accused of being informed by the biased western media. The absurd "Foreign Agent" tag is symptomatic of this paranoia. It shows that some in Russia still have a foot in the past. This is a shame because you can't move forward properly like this.

We all have a foot in the past, because history is inseparable. Actually I also have question: what do you put into the meaning of the word "Soviet"?
Because today it can have many meanings to many people. To some people it may mean dark past that should be forsaken, to some other people it may mean nostalgia, and to some it may mean neither of it but a legacy they have the right to claim and not be hesitant of it.

Originally Posted by edvalais

I invite you to ask yourselves this question: if the Magnitsky scandal had never happened, if there had been no Magnitsky Law in the US, would Russia have still banned Americans from adopting Russian children?

In my humble opinion it would be done sooner or later. Scandals about Russian orphans being abused by their American adopters had begun long before Magnitsky Law was issued. The latter happened to serve a reason to even out American reaction to Dima Yakovlev Law. The thing I dislike about that is that both these laws gear the names of of two dead people who personally had nothing to do with that.
One more thing, we didn't only ban foreign adoptions but also copied the option to ban certain American officials.

Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

One more thing, we didn't only ban foreign adoptions but also copied the option to ban certain American officials.

Again, another purely symbolic gesture. The American officials will just shake their heads and smile - whereas the Russian chinovniki/judges/police/politicians etc who stole enormous sums of money via the "Magnitsky" fraud and hid it away in the States, in bank accounts and property near to where their children study, will no longer have access to all of that. THAT is why they were so furious at the Magnitsky Law.

Originally Posted by edvalais

Again, another purely symbolic gesture. The American officials will just shake their heads and smile - whereas the Russian chinovniki/judges/police/politicians etc who stole enormous sums of money via the "Magnitsky" fraud and hid it away in the States, in bank accounts and property near to where their children study, will no longer have access to all of that. THAT is why they were so furious at the Magnitsky Law.

I agree. Also, we've all seen Yanukovich's retinue quietly disappeared on its own in an hour after the "asset freezed and visa bans" were declared to be introduced by the EU.