Thread: Russian Oligarchs

Hanna, your opinion is very accurate, I can only make one or two small remarks.
First. You say, private property was not allowed in the USSR before the so-called "glasnost'" period. It's not completely true. The thing is, the communistic ideology distinguished two different kinds of properties that Western people call "private". The one that was forbidden was called in Russian "частная собственность на средства производства" which means "private property on the means of production" and it was recognized as to be the source of exploitation of a human being by another human being. The other, called in Russian "личная собственность граждан", was allowed and it included such things as cars, small plots of land with a little cottage called "dachas", flats in the houses built by cooperatives and so on. But all the factories, plants and other enterprises where many people worked were all in the state property.
The second remark is, we never lived under "communistic regime". Even Stalin never called the Soviet regime "communistic". We were building communism but we have never lived in a communistic society. Stalin called the Soviet society "socialism", Brezhnev decided that in the time of the late 70s we built a "developed socialism". Gorbachev tried to build so-called "socialism with a human face" whatever that means, but nobody of the Soviet leaders was crazy enough to describe the Soviet reality contemporary to them as "communism" with maybe an exception of a short period of the civil war in 1918-1921 when it was "war communism", but you of course understand, that that kind of communism was not the aim of the communist party. The real communism was declared as a remote future aim almost unattainable like The Kingdom of heaven in Christianity.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Hanna, your opinion is very accurate, I can only make one or two small remarks.
First. You say, private property was not allowed in the USSR before the so-called "glasnost'" period. It's not completely true. The thing is, the communistic ideology distinguished two different kinds of properties that Western people call "private". The one that was forbidden was called in Russian "частная собственность на средства производства" which means "private property on the means of production" and it was recognized as to be the source of exploitation of a human being by another human being. The other, called in Russian "личная собственность граждан", was allowed and it included such things as cars, small plots of land with a little cottage called "dachas", flats in the houses built by cooperatives and so on. But all the factories, plants and other enterprises where many people worked were all in the state property.
The second remark is, we never lived under "communistic regime". Even Stalin never called the Soviet regime "communistic". We were building communism but we have never lived in a communistic society. Stalin called the Soviet society "socialism", Brezhnev decided that in the time of the late 70s we built a "developed socialism". Gorbachev tried to build so-called "socialism with a human face" whatever that means, but nobody of the Soviet leaders was crazy enough to describe the Soviet reality contemporary to them as "communism" with maybe an exception of a short period of the civil war in 1918-1921 when it was "war communism", but you of course understand, that that kind of communism was not the aim of the communist party. The real communism was declared as a remote future aim almost unattainable like The Kingdom of heaven in Christianity.

Thanks for the explanation. I knew some of what you said - it's just hard to keep the terminology perfect Private property was too broad a term.

I guess it's "means of production" that wasn't allowed, but limited private property for personal use was ok. That's what I should have said!

One thing occurred to me; what about inheritance in Soviet times? For example, if somebody lived in a nice flat or had a dacha or owned a nice car: could their children or other relatives inherit?

And what about in the 1990s when they started giving back land to the original owners in some parts of Eastern Europe? Did that happen at all in Russia?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Thanks for the explanation. I knew some of what you said - it's just hard to keep the terminology perfect Private property was too broad a term.

One thing occurred to me; what about inheritance in Soviet times? For example, if somebody lived in a nice flat or had a dacha or owned a nice car: could their children or other relatives inherit?

And what about in the 1990s when they started giving back land to the original owners in some parts of Eastern Europe? Did that happen at all in Russia?

First. Yes, there was inheritance in the USSR. In the early years of the Soviet power there was a limit on the cost of property that could be inherited. This limit was canceled in 1926. The rules of inheritance changed few times during the Soviet period, mainly towards widening of the rights of testators and their heirs, simplification of the procedure of inheritance. The last edition for the inheritance law was made in the 60s and this law was in act till 2002. You can read about the history of inheritance in the Soviet Union here 6.
Second. No, there was no such thing as giving back the properties of the pre-Soviet owners. There was a lot of talk about it but the state didn't do anything as far as I know.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

First. Yes, there was inheritance in the USSR. In the early years of the Soviet power there was a limit on the cost of property that could be inherited. This limit was canceled in 1926. The rules of inheritance changed few times during the Soviet period, mainly towards widening of the rights of testators and their heirs, simplification of the procedure of inheritance. The last edition for the inheritance law was made in the 60s and this law was in act till 2002. You can read about the history of inheritance in the Soviet Union here 6.
Second. No, there was no such thing as giving back the properties of the pre-Soviet owners. There was a lot of talk about it but the state didn't do anything as far as I know.

Thanks for explaining all that!
What about taxes then? Did people pay taxes in the USSR, or were the "taxes" already taken off the salary before the employee recieved it?
Were there things like VAT? (value added tax)

And who decided the prices, and what was the pricing based on? Based on my limited experience from there, most things were very, very cheap - and I was a kid/teenager so did not come with a lot of money. A few things on the other hand seemed disproportionately expensive. So what were the Soviet prices actually based on? Or perhaps, in a truly socialist economy it didn't actually matter very much what things cost? But there must have been some logic to what prices they set, even if I didn't notice what it could have been.

Belarus has some remnants of this system left, although I think most of it is gone. But if you go into a department store there, you can find a Belarussian swimming costume for $10, perfectly nice one. On the next rack, one from another nearby country, nothing special but costing $100 despite being of identical quality, material and cut. Unless there was a really compelling reason not to, you'd be a fool not to buy the first swimming costume... Obviously $10 cannot be the real price, at the very most it could be material + labour with no profit margin. Probably not even that. But who set the price that low... I bought such a bargain swimming costume and am very pleased with it, used it recently. Also, in Belarus they sell gorgeous icecream for 0.30 EUR. A similar but less tasty icecream in the UK costs 3-4 EUR at least.

Sorry Antonio, I can't write something this complicated in Russian. I actually wrote my long response, because I just assumed you wanted a response in English. If you preferred a response in Russian, lots of people here could have written something much better than me. Apologies, I didn't spot that you mentioned it...

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Правду хочешь?
We are awaken, but confused. *Putin in fact is on good terms with oligarchs*, and any person who does not concede with social injustice publicly, is immediately discredited ("сам он ворюга!")

At least, you know that part.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Hanna, your opinion is very accurate, .

Except, it's not accurate.

I would simplify it in English like this: there's a lot of *clans* in Russia and various oligarchs align themselves accordingly and yes, there was some falling out for some but Putin exiled a few for appearances and hey, with competing clans, sometimes one group decides to cut ties or edge you out. There's still a ton of oligarchs in Russia and many have a lot of influence and power. $$$$$?!? Obviously, some are very good at being accomodating and cooperative. Anyway, I don't anticipate too many receptive replies but imho, many of the replies were not too accurate if not very specific.