On Gay Priests, Pope Francis Asks, ‘Who Am I to Judge?’
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/30/world/europe/pope-francis-gay-priests.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
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"...each one having his own views" Who cares? What matters is what the government decides to implement. I would even debate whether 'each' has their own view. Not the ones with ties to the party.
My point is the 'anti-gay' bill is really redundant when you note what kind of TV programming they put out. The suggestion that 'most Russians' ignore it or don't get swayed by the propaganda is really irrelevant to the point. Although, I am not disputing it at all and good for them. I didn't criticize Russians in those posts or say they were getting 'brainwashed' although I suggest it could be influencing a great number. Maybe people here like Hanna never talk to Russians outside this site but I do and I come across others. Take a look at facebook and vk pages and tell me they don't watch that stuff. A lot of the media is delivering 'western style' propaganda and considering the population, it only has to reach a proportion of the population.
However, my point wasn't even any of that. I was illustrating the hypocrisy of this theme and the 'fake' stance that the Government was taking. It's not a 'political split' as you put it. It's delivering two conflictory messages. It's a political ploy 101. Say two different things simultaneously. What I wanted to do is show to those sympathetic to Putin and 'support' the law, that he doesn't care about it at all. The TV programming proves it. Also, I don't care whether there's more private networks in Russia. These are probably operated and owned by Oligarchs and Elites that hold some power. They are probably in Putin's pocket or vice vera. It doesn't really matter.
Hanna made a comment that there's all kinds of various Rusisans, some are 'pro-West' etc. That is probably true but in being 'pro-West', they are being manipulated. It's on purpose. I am glad that many Russians are 'awake' to all this.
I understood "Interesting", and don't understand completely the remaining. What regime? What brainwashing? It was just small detail of whole picture "Life in modern Russia". It has nothing to do with politics. TV channels might think twice how to present the news, but all the other programmes are just for making money. The state does not care what is on TV.Quote:
Interesting. This is more confirmation of the hypocrisy and brainwashing by the Russian government (see Putin). Implement a bogus law and then promote the brainwashing and indoctrination via TV programming.
For the people here (probably Americans who might not know), this video is from Channel One Russia, which is owned, operated and controlled by the Government. There's also RTR which is another state-sponsored network (division) which televises the same drivel and 'left-wing' western style indoctrination.
More evidence about the two-faced, hypocritical Putin regime.
Surprisingly enough though, that today's TV bosses claim they are trying to please the audience, whereas soviet TV bosses did programmes of type they considered suitable. However, in USSR TV content was of great quality, now it is a total crap. Many people get along without TV set.
Ok, so for those of you who are very pro-gay, FINE. To each his own. Gay people have been through some hard times in the past and I can completely understand that some want to show their support. :-)
But honestly, Some countries take it too far. Here is an example, from TODAY'S paper (biggest paper in Sweden).
Header "The embassy in Moscow does not want to raise the gay pride banner"
Ambassaden i Moskva vill inte hissa prideflaggan - DN.SE
Summary of the story: a large national organisation was proposing that the Swedish embassy in Moscow should raise the HOMOSEXUAL rainbow flag, instead of the regular Swedish flag.
This would be to mark a protest against Russia's supposed discrimination of gay people.
Apparently the Swedish embassy in Kosovo (!?) had previously done this, because Kosovo too, apparently discriminates against gay people. So they want the Moscow embassy to do the same thing.
How ridiculous, rude, childish and unproductive is this idea?!
Fortunately the embassy staff in Moscow did not entertain this idea.
I can't believe that media even writes about it, but this "Russia-discriminates-against-gays" theme is a never-ending saga. They have yet to give a seriously disturbing example with actual testimony.
And if they MUST consider these types of manifestation, why not start in Saudi Arabia where they stone homosexuals to death!? Or perhaps Afghanistan, Kenya, Nigeria etc....
So I hope that this example illustrates that I some countries simply go too far in their pro-homosexuality agenda. They offend other countries and religions that don't appreciate this lifestyle. They should respect the law of the land in other countries and not imagine they know what's best for other countries.
Here we go again... How many times does it have to be said that it's people who decide what their lives will be, not some "culture" or "system" or "country"?! What kind of totalitarian fascist does one have to be to assume otherwise? Moderators, I hope you keep track of such intolerant statements here, and take appropriate measures...Quote:
They offend other countries and religions that don't appreciate this lifestyle. They should respect the law of the land in other countries and not imagine they know what's best for other countries.
I think your English skills are letting you down a bit Eric. I was referring to COUNTRIES not homosexual people, which seems to be how you understood the sentence.
My point is that it is a ridiculous notion for the Swedish embassy (representation of Sweden in Russia) to do a pro-homosexuality manifestation, by raising the rainbow flag. Russia's laws on homosexuality is an internal matter for Russia and it seems the majority support them.
If they did indeed do a manifestation like that in Kosovo it is quite shocking.
Likewise the death penalty in the USA is revolting to most people in Sweden. But nobody is proposing that the Swedish embassy in Washington D.C. should start doing manifestations against that. It would be both rude and meddling, not to mention the fact that neither the USA nor Russia could care less by any manifestations by a country the size of Sweden.
As incomprehensible as it is, Americans apparently support that, and it's their own country, so their business.
I too. Obviously, no important problems remained in your country.Quote:
I can't believe that media even writes about it
There are problems, allright. It's just that they choose to fill media with this kind of stuff. You literally can't open a paper in Sweden without reading about the latest politically correct ideas, i.e:
- Homosexuality is a great lifestyle (and anyone who doesn't agree is an discriminatory homophobe)
- "Multicultural society" is great, i.e. mass immigration from the MIddle East and Africa (and anyone who doesn't fully agree is a rasist)
- Feminism is the only way; everything should be exactly equal between men and women - they should behave and think exactly the same way (and anyone who doesn't agree is an anti-feminist bigot).
I'm sick and tired of being brainwashed about these ideas as soon as I open a Swedish paper.
I have no major issue with either of these things, but I don't like to get ideas stuffed down my throat and be forced to agree with the latest ideas or be labelled a reactive fascist.
The UK has somewhat better spread among media and their opinions. Not all papers have the exact same view on everything and I appreciate that a lot here.
I just read what's been typed down; if someone wants to doubt my reading skills, they're strongly advised to first take a look at their writing skills :-P
What I meant is, the "don't mess with other countries/don't tell other countries what to do, etc." attitude is utterly failing, as countries are nothing without people; and just because some people in some country prefer one particular lifestyle doesn't mean everyone who lives there will stick to it; now, if a country abuses its powers and tells PEOPLE what to do, or suppresses them in any possible way, that country should be told what to do, and it will (hopefully) eventually be told what to do, and forced to do so if needed; by all this, I don't mean the sexual orientation issue, or the feminism issue, or anything like that in particular, but the general concept of civil liberties and human rights; people don't serve countries, it's the other way around.
So answer this, which is the logical follow-on from your reasoning:
- Who is to say what values are right or wrong in any particular country or culture, if not the citizens of that country, or their government?
- On what authority should another country have the ultimate say? Biggest army? Most widespread culture? Most moral or religious country? Most ideologically pure country?
- Which country in your view is the ultimate authority on what's right or wrong for other countries?
- Which country should shut up and change their laws and culture to comply?
- Or are you saying that every country start issuing judgement on all other countries with different cultures or values to themselves?
(stupid question really, you never answer any direct questions so 100-1 you'll ignore this one, answer something entirely unrelated or make a personal insult towards me. Will give you ONE chance though, until I go back to ignoring you.)
Umm, seems to me that a certain Swede on this board was thoroughly happy to lecture OTHER COUNTRIES on how awful and backward it is to have just one official national language. (And the Latvians, as far as I know, weren't preparing to impose criminal fines on people who "promoted Russian to minors" -- they just didn't want to subsidize the Russian language.)Quote:
How ridiculous, rude, childish and unproductive is this idea?!
So I hope that this example illustrates that I some countries simply go too far in their pro-homosexuality agenda. They should respect the law of the land in other countries and not imagine they know what's best for other countries.
"Disturbing" to whom? Carrying a sign like this on a public street can now, in theory*, get you a 5000-ruble fine throughout Russia (Photo is a couple years old, and AFAIK, the guy -- activist Nikolai Alekseev -- already got the same fine under the St. Petersburg law. Though I understand that foreign sympathizers chipped in with money, and he didn't have to pay out of his own pocket, at least:Quote:
this "Russia-discriminates-against-gays" theme is a never-ending saga. They have yet to give a seriously disturbing example with actual testimony
http://static2.aif.ru/public/news/bi...b0e9.pskov.jpg
I'd imagine that Russian gays consider it "seriously disturbing" that saying the phrase Я нормальный человек where children might overhear you is now banned propaganda...
*P.S. However, I understand the point that no one knows whether the new law will be actively enforced, and I agree that the Swedish gesture was rather stupid, and that calls to "boycott Sochi" are insane overreactions. (I'd note that the US had laws against consensual sodomy until 2003, but the very reason that it took so long to strike down these laws is that they were practically never enforced -- which meant there was no "legal standing" to challenge them.)
1. This one's incorrect, because in civilized countries every person is entitled to having their own system of values that can be different as much as they like from what might be offered by the government, etc., as long as it's ok with the law;
2. A country can do that provided:
a) There's a real problem indeed in the country that's being decided on;
b) The country that decides is flawless in the matter it's taking a decision about;
c) The country that decides can reasonably ensure carrying out its decision on the offender country;
3. See items b) & c) of item #2
4. See item a) of item #2
5. See items ##2-4
Re Latvia: This is regional politics between two neighbouring areas with a very long and complex relationship and not a comparable situation. The Baltic states now want to be part of the Scandinavian/Nordic group of countries. I.e. they essentially want to be Scandis, like us in Scandinavia.
Fine, but if they want to join us, they should take similar view on not discriminating on the basis of language. We have a very long history of getting over language discrimination in Scandinavia and it was solved to everyone's satisfaction, more or less, about a hundred years ago.
If the Balts stop trying to be "Nordic" they can do what they like. I only object to them saying "we are like you", attempting to be part of the Nordic group and then engaging in language discrimination, which we reject. If they allied themselves with some other area, I would care considerably less.
Let's stick to the topic though, instead of attacking me personally and ignoring my questions. I'm not in the habit of digging up your old posts and launch a vendetta against you, because we have different opinions, so would you show me the same respect, please? Thanks.
P.P.S. At least this recent controversy produced an excellent one-liner:
Парадокс: Российский парламент запретил "пропаганду гомосексуализма", а в правительстве сидят одни п*доры!
Which you could politely translate as:
"It's ironic that the Russian Parliament has banned 'homosexual propaganda', since 99% of what the government does and says is so TOTALLY GAY."
Though more literally and vulgarly, сидят одни п*доры is better translated as "it's filled with nothing but c*cksuckers." (In US English slang, "c*cksucker" isn't always literal -- sometimes the meaning is more like паршивый козёл, without any reference at all to orientation.)
By the way, can anyone point me to political analyses IN RUSSIAN of what the real, practical effects of the recent "No Promo Homo" law might or not be? (Preferably by a legal expert who is neither a pro-gay nor an anti-gay activist -- much of the coverage I've seen in the US has had the tone of "the sky is falling!")
And I've found plenty of news stories in Russian, but none that offered good legal analysis of what the law's language ACTUALLY MEANS (perhaps because no one knows!), or predictions of how strictly the law will be enforced.
The US still has issues with sodomy. 13 States still have anti-sodomy laws and Louisiana is still trying to enforce theirs.
One State Is Still Enforcing Its Anti-Sodomy Law - Connor Simpson - The Atlantic Wire
And some States (including mine) use other methods to deal with the gay issue. They include beatings, bullying, and suicides. If you want to see what happened at the gay parade in Russia, just enroll in middle or high school in the USA. It gets really scary sometimes.
Ohio Bully Beating of Gay Student Caught on Cell Phone - ABC News
Anti-Gay Bullying: Does Silence = Death? | Oklahoma Observer
That first link is just one case but trust me, there's tons more and a lot of them never even get reported, period.
So maybe if it was illegal to have parades or even talk about being gay, then maybe a lot of kids would still be alive.
I mean, I don't care if somebody's gay and it's not a huge issue. They're just people like everybody else and a lot of them like metal and alternative rock so that's pretty cool. But there's way too many kids that aren't as tolerant as I am.
The point is, it's people that cause the real damage, not laws. And Russia probably doesn't have any more violence against gays (well, at school anyway) than America does. Gays will still be persecuted and even killed till the attitudes change and the laws can't change that. Only people can.
About the No Promo Homo thing. I thought that was just Tennessee. I haven't heard very much about it here so it must just be in the public schools?
Ummm.. This post was an accident. I made one post and somehow it posted twice. Sorry.
I can only suggest that fate of the law will be like many others: it will be forgotten in a few months.Quote:
practical effects of the recent "No Promo Homo" law might or not be?
I could only think of one practical use of this law: if you ban gay parades in Russia you would decrease raising numbers of broken jaws and ribs.
I mean what's the sacred point of gay parades anyway? I don't get it. I feel like these parades inhabited by exhibitionists rather than gays.
I also think that any public actions of sexual nature(including gay parades) are in fact sexual harassment to the society. And sexual harassment cannot be considered as acceptable, in my view.
I mean if you are a gay - fine. But don't stick your genitals to the faces of other people.
Go to Vegas, rent a place and stick it to the faces of people who give a damn. AEE does it, so should gay people do, if they so fond of their parades.
Я здесь в Чикаго ни на какие парады никогда не ходила и не пойду. Неинтересно. Если б мне не пришлось случайно увидеть фотографии с Mardi Gras, Key West или с Гей Pride парадов, не предствляла бы такое.
Так что, если не хочешь, никакие гениталии не увидишь.
А в детстве помню на русских пляжах все мужчины в малюсеньких плавках были. Вообще не смущало, вроде так и надо. Никто и не знал, что нужно возмущаться или пялиться. Чегой-то вдруг чьи-то гениталии стали диковинкой?
Вот первое, что нагугливось, всё напоказ и никого не волнует: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVXyeTczYUQ
^^^^^ What are you talking about?!? I'm not sure how it's done in Florida (or Chicago) but in Canada, the Government actually funds these parades! They obtain grants under the B.S. 'tourism' umbrella. Furthermore, the municipal government (whichever city it takes place in) closes off all encompassing roads so traffic must detour. This makes for a lot of inconvenience. Also, shops along the route are ****ed! So, you better not need to go through this area for any reason or you will witness the spectacle whether you want to or not. This is just wrong. Other organizations or groups don't get 'parades' or funding for it. If it is perceived as a 'right-wing' group, they won't ever get the right or funding for such a reason so this is about politics.
http://timenewsfeed.files.wordpress....0&h=320&crop=1I feel the same way. I would be just as much against prostitutes having a Prostitute Pride Parade, in vulgar outfits, half naked.... Or a Pedophilia Pride Parade, a Sadism parade or anyone flaunting their sexuality in the faces of other people, even if they are 100% straight and happily married. It's tasteless, vulgar and doesn't achieve anything constructive. Perhaps I'm just too conservative, but that's my view.
Ok, Russian gay people reading this.... since you can't march at home, you are apparently invited... This festival is going on right now, for a week.... You are not forgotten, lol... (this is silly....)
http://fotohost.kz/images/2013/08/01/913tQ.jpg
Some gay bar in Sweden making a manifestation:
PS - when I drink vodka I go for Russian vodka all the way! I boycott their boycott!!
In fact, I wouldn't mind a blueberry shot right now, after a stressful day at work.
http://www.alltomstockholm.se/incomi...JPEG-0BD88.jpg
I'm in London now, but last year, this time I was in Stockholm when the gay festival was on. It goes on for a week. They actually put gay pride flags on the buses and trams, in some flag-holders that they sometimes put the national flag in, on national holidays. This went on for a week. And inside the bus were ads for the Pride festival.
When I was in the metro, some ladies with vests saying "Local municipality" (looked like office workers from the local municipality) came on the train and handed out invitations for Pride week, saying "How are YOU celebrating the Pride festival?" blah, blah.. Implying that anyone who doesn't participate in this festival is some kind of reactionary! It's just too darn in-your-face....
I just thought "Leave me alone already!!!! I am not gay and I don't celebrate this nonsense! If they must have a Pride festival I'd prefer if they had it somewhere outside town.
All buses have gay flags for a week:
http://www.nordiskamuseet.se/sites/d....0051327_0.jpg
Is this suitable?
http://sverigesradio.se/diverse/appd...01_570_321.jpg
I wonder if gays can get a simplified visa to attend the parade in Sweden.
"Too conservative" is, perhaps, not quite the expression I would use.
On the other hand, we've finally found a topic on which Hanna is to the right of FOX News... :D
What's unsuitable about that? Babies love bright, primary colors; it stimulates their visual development.Quote:
Regarding "Pride Parades" -- what the Russian government claims to be prohibiting is THIS:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CijcaA9yq5...eparade263.jpg
But what the phrasing of the law in fact prohibits is THIS, too:
http://temp_thoughts_resize.s3.amazo...69e/blog44.jpg
A "homophile rights" march from the early 1960s -- in Philadelphia or NYC, I'm not sure which.
Is it actually necessary to ban the second example in order to prevent Russian society from going down the slippery slope to the first example?
P.S. I just noticed this:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Stockholm (a) the largest and most populated city in all of Scandanavia, and (b) the political capital for all citizens of Sweden, including the homosexual ones?Quote:
last year, this time I was in Stockholm when the gay festival was on. [...] If they must have a Pride festival I'd prefer if they had it somewhere outside town.
How incredibly STRANGE that they'd choose to have their Gayfest in Stockholm, of all places!
Говорит Бегемот: Хорошо, что наш уважаемый коллега Фагот просто был нормальным чёртом из ада, а не "faggot" в американском смысле -- а то российское правительство сожгло бы рукопись!
:roll:
And on a slightly related topic, recently here in the Washington DC region there's been a small controversy about a popular Mexican rock band called "Molotov" that will be performing in concert (somewhere in Maryland, just north of DC). Reason for the controversy: one of the their biggest hits is filled with Spanish words such as puto and maricón, both of which are approximately equivalent to "c*cksucker" or п*дор. For this reason, some gays have complained that the band is homophobic, and some politically-correct straights agree -- though, on the other hand, the band and its supporters say that the words are intended in the sense of "corrupt f*cking politicians*, and not in an anti-gay sense.
So, yet another example of "Do you mean fag as in homosexual, or fag as in Harley-Davidson biker?" (to quote South Park). Language is complicated! :D
P.S. If anyone's curious, puto is literally the masculine form of puta (бл*дь), while maricón is literally "Big Mary" (the suffix -on is an увеличительное in Spanish).
Just my opinion: people on that picture look weird.
It also confirms that exhibitionists thrive on gay parades
FYI: being a gay isn't considered a mental disorder but being exhibitionist is.
Considering that most gays are under constant psychological pressure from the majority it's no wonder that some gay people might have some mental problems.
Yeah, I think the "mental illness" thing kinda kills the issue. But it's not like they made it illegal for them to do stuff like that at home.
Anyway, those parades look kinda meh and even old Sum 41 tracks trump Molotov. Imo, the only thing Molotov is bashing is peoples ears with old classical rock, lol!
If I go to parade I want to see Transformers, Dementors, Dragons (and not like the ones at the Aussie show!), Thestrals, Linkin Park, and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwTv45OW5Yw
Then I'll call it a parade! :mrgreen:
I'm tired of all these recent gay discussions. It's not really a problem here at all. Nobody cares. For a change, here is a very good and funny video about some real problems in Russia and how our state TV blames USA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDjeAc6Mi3M
Талантливая песня. Значит, уже не коммунисты во всём виноваты ?
А я знал, с самого начала! :search: