Неназываемый

There is a character called "Неназываемый" in some books of a popular Russian fantasy writer Nick Perumov (ok, his books haven't got much literary value, but do we always need in literary value? ;)). And there was a discussion on Perumov's official site, how to translate this name properly. People suggested variants "Unnamed" and "Nameless", but the author said the former means "неназванный" and the latter means "лишенный имени". Perumov himself suggested an awkward construction "He, who has no name".

But what about words "Uncallable" and "Unnameable"? OK, they are my own inventions, and I don't know whether they are correct, but if they are, I think, they are closer to the Russian name than the other variants. What do you think about it?

P.S. As usual, I also hope you will correct my mistakes :) Here are the places where I'm extremely unsure:

his books haven't got much literary value
I've been told Americans like simple "have", but British like "have got", so I've decided to try to use "have got" and see, what will happen :)

But what about words "Uncallable" and "Unnameable"?
I feel bad because of lack of an auxilary verb here...

It doesn't mean I'm sure in other places :) Especially, articles is one of my weakest subjects :)

"Haven't Got": If you say/write this, everyone will understand you, but it's technically not correct. The "proper" way to say it would be "his books don't have much literary value."

"Uncallable": Unfortunatly, I speak only 1 or two words of Russian, so I can't translate the name exactly, but I'll do my best with the english provided. Uncallable makes it look like the character doesn't own a telephone. While the english phrase "I am called [name]" is correct, you would never use "uncallable" in this context

"Unnameable": I suppose this could work, but seems awkward.

As for Perumov's answer, "He who has no name" (I think the comma was a mistake) is just a formal version of unnamed, and is neither awkward nor incorrect.

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Originally Posted by pranki

his books haven't got much literary value

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Sounds ok, but I would say:
"His books do not have much literary value."

IMHO: "haven't got" sounds uneducated and informal. But many people say this, including me, when amongst friends.

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Originally Posted by pranki

But what about words "Uncallable" and "Unnameable"?

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But what about the words "Uncallable" and "Unnameable"?


Anyway, back to the subject.
I think "Неназываемый" means "not named" or "unnamed" or "nameless".

"unnameable" means "cannot be named"
"uncallable" means "cannot be called"

Both of these sound unnatural because anything can be named or called.

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Originally Posted by kwatts59

But what about the words "Uncallable" and "Unnameable"?

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And what about an auxilary verb? I've been taught every question must contain an auxilary verb, but I really don't know which one is needed here and where :oops:

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Anyway, back to the subject.
I think "Неназываемый" means "not named" or "unnamed" or "nameless".

"unnameable" means "cannot be named"
"uncallable" means "cannot be called"

Both of these sound unnatural because anything can be named or called.

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In the books "Неназываемый" is exactly the creature which no one can name :) Don't forget, they're fantasy books.

My point of view:
Неназываемый -- a creature which no one can name.
Неназванный -- a creature which wasn't named.
Лишенный имени -- a creature which has been deprived of name.
Perumov said неназванный = unnamed and лишенный имени = nameless...

If it's a terrible creature, that may work. In the "Harry Potter" book series, the main villan is usually called "he who must not be named."

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Originally Posted by Doc Faustus

If it's a terrible creature, that may work. In the "Harry Potter" book series, the main villan is usually called "he who must not be named."

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Yeah, it's a terrible creature not from our Universe blah-blah-blah :)

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Originally Posted by pranki

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Originally Posted by kwatts59

But what about the words "Uncallable" and "Unnameable"?

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And what about an auxilary verb? I've been taught every question must contain an auxilary verb, but I really don't know which one is needed here and where :oops:

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Not every question requires an auxilary verb.

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Originally Posted by pranki

In the books "Неназываемый" is exactly the creature which no one can name :) Don't forget, they're fantasy books.

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Well, if it is just fantasy, then I guess "unnameable" is probably ok.

"uncallable" sounds really weird to me


Edit: I did a google search on the phrase "What about the" and I got 15 million hits.

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Originally Posted by kwatts59

Edit: I did a google search on the phrase "What about the" and I got 15 million hits.

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OK, but you (native speakers) sometimes do simplifications in the spoken language, for example miss auxilary verbs. I thought it's exactly the same case.
Sometimes you even write an affirmative sentence, then put a question mark at the end and imply that it's a question :)

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Originally Posted by pranki

My point of view:
Неназываемый -- a creature which no one can name.
Неназванный -- a creature which wasn't named.
Лишенный имени -- a creature which has been deprived of name.
Perumov said неназванный = unnamed and лишенный имени = nameless...

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неназванный = unnamed is correct (a creature who has not been named (like a new species hasn't been named))
лишенный имени - Nameless is correct in the context that he had a name, and some one took it away. He remains nameless (a stretch of fantasy is needed :) But the analogy to titleless is clear)
Неназываемый - A creature who no one can name.

Maybe "the Unnamable", I think that is the closest! But that gives a feeling that no one dares to say his name....

Is it a person who has no name or a "thing" (creature, monster, etc.)?

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Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Is it a person who has no name or a "thing" (creature, monster, etc.)?

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"Thing".

Well, then "He, who has no name" does not fit. A monster/creature usually is not referred to as "he", but as "it". Unless he is personified, then you treat him as a person.

So if it is a "thing" my best bet would be: "Unnamable"

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Originally Posted by kwatts59

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Originally Posted by pranki

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Originally Posted by kwatts59

But what about the words "Uncallable" and "Unnameable"?

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And what about an auxilary verb? I've been taught every question must contain an auxilary verb, but I really don't know which one is needed here and where :oops:

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Not every question requires an auxilary verb.

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Pranki - in your sentence, there is no verb at all - therefore you can't possibly use an auxiliary verb.
The auxiliary verb is like.... ehm...... a "helping tool" to convert the verb of an affirmative sentence into that of a question, and yes, in correct English, you'd always need that - in a sentence that has a verb in the first place :wink:

F.ex.:
But what about the words "Uncallable" and "Unnameable"? - no verb
BUT:
I think about the words "Uncallable" and "Unnameable" - main verb: "think"
But what do you think about the words "Uncallable" and "Unnameable"? - main verb "think, aux verb "do"



Also, don't think for a minute that native speakers always speak correctly.... far from it :lol:
BTW, your English is very good - be proud of yourself! If my Russian were <s>half</s> one fifth as good as your English, I'd be well chuffed... :wink:


BY

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Originally Posted by BabaYaga

BTW, your English is very good - be proud of yourself! If my Russian were <s>half</s> one fifth as good as your English, I'd be well chuffed... :wink:

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You, of course, flatter me :oops:

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Originally Posted by pranki

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Originally Posted by BabaYaga

BTW, your English is very good - be proud of yourself! If my Russian were <s>half</s> one fifth as good as your English, I'd be well chuffed... :wink:

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You, of course, flatter me :oops:

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No no! Your language is really very good!

PS: can you lend me 50 bucks?

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PS: can you lend me 50 bucks?

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What for? :o You wanna buy sth?

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

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PS: can you lend me 50 bucks?

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What for? :o You wanna buy sth?

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Yeah. By the way, your English is very very good too.

Could you lend me 50 bucks too?

Thanks for praising my English but that won't help you get 50 bucks! :lol:
BTW, if I were you I'd probably ask for 100 bucks!

BabaYaga, where in Europe do you live? I have a clue - GB. Have I guessed correctly? :?:

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

Thanks for praising my English but that won't help you get 50 bucks! :lol:

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Then your English suck!
Lol

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BTW, if I were you I'd probably ask for 100 bucks!

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Don't take offense I valued your English at 50 bucks, I just had more chances to get 50 bucks than 100 :)

Maybe it'll work with pranki.

*LOL* netsurfer - go for Euros, man - they're worth more! :lol:


ReD - you're almost right...... but no, I don't live in GB. My sister is English though, does that count? :lol:
I live in the heart of Euroland ( :roll: ) - Brussels. That's why I have never posted on the "what's you're native language" thread: I'm one of these people who grew up between cultures and therefore belongs everywhere and nowhere at the same time.....
But you're right in that my English is GB rather than US :wink:
Sometimes with a hint of Irish even....... hehe, don't ask.....


Pranki - ladies my age don't go gallivanting around cyberspace flattering young men at will! :o :lol:
I just have the habit of saying honestly what I think....:wink: And your English really is much better than you seem to think yourself.


Actually, I'm always impressed by the language-learning abilities that Russians - in general - seem to have. It must be because you guys start out with a language that is so difficult, that you find it easier than us to pick up a new one.....
I think... :?:


BY

BabaYaga thanks for the tip :)