Thread: who or whom

I

You use "whom" when referring to "who" as a direct or indirect object.

With whom would you like to speak?
To whom did you give that?
Whom did you see yesterday?

But no onereally says it unless they are either really educated, a dork, or being formal.

Yeah, I have to admit I never use it. But if you're going to use it, at least use it correctly!

Originally Posted by Pravit

You use "whom" when referring to "who" as a direct or indirect object.

With whom would you like to speak?
To whom did you give that?
Whom did you see yesterday?

But this is how normal people would say these.

Who would you like to speak to (with).
Who did you give that to?
Who did you see yesterday?

DDT is right на всё сто!

Spoken "whom" is for butlers. Otherwise that word is strictly for ink (or whatever) on paper.

Actually, I think it's historically related to "him", "them" and "us'n".

But don't quote me on that, Pravit!

Man, guys, I use "whom" just about as often as you do. But joysof might have a bone to pick with that...

Even when I know for sure where to use whom, I'm still to embarrased to use it. So, maybe you should be too. If you want a diploma in English Literature, learn it. If you want to succeed socially, don't.

EDIT: I honestly have to say that the next post by Scotcher is something I agree with. My advice above is empty sentiment, really. The truth is, I do know it to be my own short-coming if I don't have the courage to use language correctly purely on the basis of not sounding dorky. So, I retract my previous comments. If you say 'whom' with natural and unpretentious expression, you'll pull it off well. I personally use "I am" instead of "I'm", "I would" instead if "I'd", and it comes off well because I do it without caring about its uncoolness. Being a non-English speaker means you actually won't have developed the aversion to the word whom, so you're more likely to sound natural when you say it. When I learn other languages, I deliberately use correct speech even though it's not done by the natives. And it is an enjoyable quirk for me, and the speakers of the language actually tend to think it's cute when I do so, anyway. The bottom line is, if you are being casual with your language, whom isn't a word you would use. But, if you don't mind sounding unique, and don't mind risking sounding dorky, then why not use it. :EDIT CLOSED.

But for the record, at the end of sentences whom is almost always the officially correct form. Because , English doesn't really allow for finishing a sentence with a personal pronoun, does it? (Or whatever 'I', 'we', and 'they' are called). Which makes me suspicious of the apparent validity of saying "It is for you and I", as opposed to "It is for you and me".

I'm sorry, but you lot are talking an absolutely grade-A pile of crap. Just because you and your buds don't use your own language properly between yourselves doesn't mean you should be advising foreign learners to learn it wrongly too. There are plenty of contexts where lazy use of 'who' when you mean 'whom' will stick out like a sore thumb, especially in written English, and there are (or should be) very few contexts where using it correctly will sound unnatural.

The fact that you believe using your language correctly can sound 'dorky' says more about you and your circle of aquaintances that it says about the language itself.

Terribly sorry about that Mister Scocher Sir but we just naturally figured that they wanted to learn English so they could hang out with us Cool Kats. I reckon you must have thought it pretty presumptuous of me to think that these English learners would have a better time with me and the chicks from the neighborhood (WHO by the way, don’t even care to know how to spell the word “diaphragm”, as long as they work) out at the swimming pool watching our “buds” belly flop off the diving board while hanging onto a Bud Light than attending a board meeting in the Ancient Manuscripts Department down at the Library of London with your lot.

DDT, the WHO there is perfectly correct, even by joysof and scotcher's standards.

ahh ya tak skuchayu pa-Library-of-London-е ...

Originally Posted by Pravit

DDT, the WHO there is perfectly correct, even by joysof and scotcher's standards.

I spelled Bud Lite wrong though! (which all goes to prove that good breeding is hard to shake)

I remember there were a lot of topics on esl.about.com and other language sites dedicated to the disappearing usage of whom and some people there even talked about creating a movement for saving "whom". As far as I can remember the debates were very heated there.

Really? I can't see getting too heated over this. That would be silly!

As far as I remember Otto and joysof had a similar discussion at MR a while ago. The only thing I remember of it was joysof saying something like "playing pin the tail on the pedant."

He's funny, that joysof.