pronunciation question - silent "t"
I decided to work on my pronunciation and got some podcasts and Cambridge's "Pronunciation in Use". And all I get for my efforts is confusion. :)
Native speakers on that tapes pronounce "t" very clearly in some words like 'often', 'restaurant', etc. while I always thought it shouldn't be pronounced there.
I was tempted to brush it off as a 'British thing' but
a) these are training tapes and presumedly they are to demonstrate standart pronunciation,
b) on a podcast both Englishman and American said 'often' (with 'T').
I'm not going to change my habbits (yet :)) and to say it the same way but WHAT'S GOING ON? I'm just curious. Is that an accent or it's common?
Re: pronunciation question - silent "t"
Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
I decided to work on my pronunciation and got some podcasts and Cambridge's "Pronunciation in Use". And all I get for my efforts is confusion. :)
Native speakers on that tapes pronounce "t" very clearly in some words like 'often', 'restaurant', etc. while I always thought it shouldn't be pronounced there.
I was tempted to brush it off as a 'British thing' but
a) these are training tapes and presumedly they are to demonstrate standart pronunciation,
b) on a podcast both Englishman and American said 'often' (with 'T').
I'm not going to change my habbits (yet :)) and to say it the same way but WHAT'S GOING ON? I'm just curious. Is that an accent or it's common?
Much depends on whether you want to sound like a wealthy British person... or an Australian sheep-herder... or an American/Canadian attorney. :wink:
This is a regional difference in pronounciation... please remember that there are essentially 15+ pronounciation styles and dialects in English.
"Often"... in the Midwest U.S. the "t" (after the "f") is not pronounced... if you pronounce it you will sound as a wealthy "dandy" from eastern America, Boston or British... you will sound much more natural (in America/Canada) if you pronounce it as "ofen". Please trust me on this. Don't pronounce the "t".
"Restaurant"... I'm not sure which "t" you're referring to? I assume the second "t"... pronounce both "t" 's... otherwise it is possible that you will sound uneducated.
There are Southern U.S. dialects that soften the last "t". This may be what you're hearing.
If you're not from the South don't drop or try to soften that last "t"... it will not sound normal if you don't have a natural Southern accent.
I wish I could produce "wave" files on this forum for examples, from my own speech.
Use the Cambridge files, if you have no other option... but if you want to have British pronounciation, try to get BBC... if you want American/Canadian pronounciation, try to get CNN, Fox, or Voice of America.
I'll dig up some American/Canadian .wav files for you, from good sources.
P.S. "habbit" should be "habit" :wink:
Re: pronunciation question - silent "t"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
"Restaurant"... I'm not sure which "t" you're referring to? I assume the second "t"... pronounce both "t" 's... otherwise it is possible that you will sound uneducated.
She means that Soviet dictionaries (Muller etc) insist that is should be pronounced as rest-RONG, approximating the French pronunciation. That's how they taught us to pronounce it when I was a schoolkid. Many schoolbooks and and English dictionaries published in Russia are so out of date that it isn't even funny. I can't even remember when I opened my copy of Muller... or, in fact, if I still have it - I find it that useless.
Re: pronunciation question - silent "t"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
[...]
"Restaurant"... I'm not sure which "t" you're referring to? I assume the second "t"... pronounce both "t" 's... otherwise it is possible that you will sound uneducated.
[...]
P.S. "habbit" should be "habit" :wink:
Thank you, Dobry.
Both T's in 'restaurant'? Not one? I wonder now how many other usless things my school teacher taught me. :)
And yeah, I often write "habit" as "habbit". Probably have something to do with "hobbits". :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by translations.nm.ru
I can't even remember when I opened my copy of Muller... or, in fact, if I still have it - I find it that useless.
I haven't used mine for years too. Actually I don't think Muller is so bad, it's just too big, I prefer electronic ones (Lingvo).
Re: pronunciation question - silent "t"
Quote:
Originally Posted by translations.nm.ru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
"Restaurant"... I'm not sure which "t" you're referring to? I assume the second "t"... pronounce both "t" 's... otherwise it is possible that you will sound uneducated.
She means that Soviet dictionaries (Muller etc) insist that is should be pronounced as rest-RONG, approximating the French pronunciation. That's how they taught us to pronounce it when I was a schoolkid. Many schoolbooks and and English dictionaries published in Russia are so out of date that it isn't even funny. I can't even remember when I opened my copy of Muller... or, in fact, if I still have it - I find it
that useless.
Wow... I didn't know! :o
Re: pronunciation question - silent "t"
Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
I decided to work on my pronunciation and got some podcasts and Cambridge's "Pronunciation in Use". And all I get for my efforts is confusion. :)
Native speakers on that tapes pronounce "t" very clearly in some words like 'often', 'restaurant', etc. while I always thought it shouldn't be pronounced there.
I was tempted to brush it off as a 'British thing' but
a) these are training tapes and presumedly they are to demonstrate standart pronunciation,
b) on a podcast both Englishman and American said 'often' (with 'T').
I'm not going to change my habbits (yet :)) and to say it the same way but WHAT'S GOING ON? I'm just curious. Is that an accent or it's common?
То, что сказал Добры хорошо, но я бы сказал, что не надо волноваться о том, как ты произносишь эти слова. Ныне английский язык отличается в такой большой степени, что никто не заметит, использовал ли ты один или другой вариант.
Re: pronunciation question - silent "t"
Quote:
Originally Posted by basurero
, но я бы сказал, что не надо волноваться о том, как ты произносишь эти слова. Ныне английский язык отличается в такой большой степени, что никто не заметит, использовал ли ты один или другой вариант.
Basurero, I disagree. One word, misunderstood... can destroy a business deal. Please, let us talk more about American business hiring... Consider it a game... you may prove this American wrong. :wink:
I respect you very much... but in Western Business, words... each word... becomes very important. gRomoZeka's language will be judged by those people who are deciding to hire her, or work with her. Her English has a good chance of a job or contract.
gRomoZeka... if you have a pro-translator to work for you, then great... otherwise I feel like you have a team of translators and linguists to help you translate and 'sell' your thoughts ideas, and words to Westerners.
I'm here for you, as I'm to help Basurero and a few other people, if they want help. You have a team helping you.
:)
Please no worries... all manifestations will be consisdered legititamate and real...and kind,
Re: pronunciation question - silent "t"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
I'm here for you, as I'm to help Basurero and a few other people, if they want help. You have a team helping you.
:)
Спасибо, Dobry, ты очень добр. :wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeo
I say "ofTen." Im not weird, and no one thinks I speak sub standard or unhirable english. In a lot of words that have two Ts in a row, a lot of people will say them in a way that completely ignores them. Instead of kit-ten, they say ki-en. It sounds more...I dont know, natural than to hear a forced "kit-ten" where both Ts are pronounced and prominent. Its just an interesting thing with pronounciation and what english speakers (in my region of america, atleast, I cant speak for other english regions or countries) are used to hearing. But thats an example (although different from your question) of different but legitmate pronounciations.
It's very interesting, Zeo. I think little things like that are important, but you hardly can learn them from books.