Thread: "politics" and "policy" - what's the difference?

can't really make head or tail of the difference between these two words...

can anyone help me out? a reply with a few examples will be very much appreciated

Generally a policy is a course of action (eg. company policy - политика компании), and politics is everything which has to do with parties, state structure, etc.

Например, "Jane enjoys reading about politics." versus "Jane does not like her company's policy regarding vacation days."

thanks, it seems to be clearer now.

by the way if there's a date written somewhere (e.g.: November 5) what's the most natural way to pronounce it?

i think THE FIFTH OF NOVEMBER and NOVEMBER THE FIFTH both sound alright
will NOVEMBER FIFTH do? or is it incorrect? and what's the best variant?

Originally Posted by moo-cow

by the way if there's a date written somewhere (e.g.: November 5) what's the most natural way to pronounce it?

i think THE FIFTH OF NOVEMBER and NOVEMBER THE FIFTH both sound alright
will NOVEMBER FIFTH do? or is it incorrect? and what's the best variant?

Both of those are acceptable but formal. This way is more common: November Fifth

paulb
thanks a lot

a few more questions if no one minds

1. should the predicate be in the plural or in the singular in the following sentence:
"Devoting your spare time to going in for sports, physical training is / are essential"

2. which version is correct:

"I have never learnt to read or write"
or
"I have never learnt to read or to write"

3. "I meant to have given you five shillings this morning for a Christmas-box, Sam. I'll give it you this afternoon, Sam."

i came across this sentence somewhere on the Net and couldn't understand whether the part in bold is grammatical or not. the point is that all my english-english explanatory dictionaries say that you can only say "give somebody something" or "give something to somebody". so is this sentence actually acceptable or not? if yes, is this kind of structure used very often?

4. "Some grammarians maintain that in sentences of this type we ..."

will it be a mistake to put the definite article here? (in the sentences)

5. "... such a one as that."

we need to put a here, don't we? i think we do, but the whole phrase sounds kind of strange to me, so i decided to ask about it...

6. "She does nothing but make scenes from morning till night."

don't we have to add the inflection s here?

7. if there's a sentence with a few homogeneous subjects expressed by infinitives should the form of the predicate be singular or plural?

8. in Russian punctuation rules are of huge importance. it really gets on my nerves to see a comma misplaced or missed when reading a text in Russian. do punctuation rules in English matter so much as in Russian? i've been learning English for quite a while now, both at school and at university, but i know nothing of punctuation, primarily, i guess, because teachers don't take the trouble of explaining these rules. so are they simply not that important or... or what?

9. is there any difference between unconsciously and subconsciously?

eg.: i did it unconsciously / subconsciously.

10. which variant of the following two do you find more correct? if both, what's the variant which is used more often?

"There is an enormous number of words and expressions ..."
"There are an enormous number of words and expressions"

11. a little dialogue:

(1) - this is a good book.
(2) - this is also a good book.
(3) - i liked the first one better / i liked the first better.

in the third line of the little dialogue above - do we need to put one or not? i might be wrong, but i think that you've got to put one because it sort of substitutes the noun there.

and in sentences like "i'm not the first you've been engaged to" we don't put one, because there's no noun for it to substitute - am i right or not? i always get confused in cases like these, so i need someone to kind of confirm or reject my little hypothesis

thanks in advance to those who'll be so kind as to answer my questions!

Warning: I am not a grammar expert, just a native speaker, so I could be technically wrong on all these questions.

"Devoting your spare time to going in for sports, physical training is / are essential"

"to going in for sports" doesn't sound right. How about: "Devoting your spare time to sports and physical training is essential"

"I have never learnt to read or write"
or
"I have never learnt to read or to write"

I never learned to read or write

3. "I meant to have given you five shillings this morning for a Christmas-box, Sam. I'll give it you this afternoon, Sam."

i came across this sentence somewhere on the Net and couldn't understand whether the part in bold is grammatical or not. the point is that all my english-english explanatory dictionaries say that you can only say "give somebody something" or "give something to somebody". so is this sentence actually acceptable or not? if yes, is this kind of structure used very often?

I sound like something out of Dickens or turn of the century writing.

4. "Some grammarians maintain that in sentences of this type we ..."
will it be a mistake to put the definite article here? (in the sentences)

Using "in the sentences" does not sound right.

5. "... such a one as that."

we need to put a here, don't we? i think we do, but the whole phrase sounds kind of strange to me, so i decided to ask about it...

Got more context?

6. "She does nothing but make scenes from morning till night."

don't we have to add the inflection s here?

7. if there's a sentence with a few homogeneous subjects expressed by infinitives should the form of the predicate be singular or plural?

Congrats, you know more about English grammar than me

8. in Russian punctuation rules are of huge importance. it really gets on my nerves to see a comma misplaced or missed when reading a text in Russian. do punctuation rules in English matter so much as in Russian? i've been learning English for quite a while now, both at school and at university, but i know nothing of punctuation, primarily, i guess, because teachers don't take the trouble of explaining these rules. so are they simply not that important or... or what?

It all depends on who you are communicating with. A highly educated English scholar will have punctuation down, but some random guy on the internet (like myself) may not follow all the rules. I will say that Russian punctuation, specifically commas, are really frustrating for me. I'm used to them being used in English to mark a place to pause your speech, but in Russian a lot of times it seems that people just plow right through the commas when reading (e.g. ignore them and read straight through).

9. is there any difference between unconsciously and subconsciously?

eg.: i did it unconsciously / subconsciously.

I think of "unconsciously" as being unconscious, e.g. asleep, in a coma, etc. So using "sub" in your sentence makes more sense to me.

10. which variant of the following two do you find more correct? if both, what's the variant which is used more often?

"There is an enormous number of words and expressions ..."
"There are an enormous number of words and expressions"

11. a little dialogue:

(1) - this is a good book.
(2) - this is also a good book.
(3) - i liked the first one better / i liked the first better.

in the third line of the little dialogue above - do we need to put one or not?

and in sentences like "i'm not the first you've been engaged to" we don't put one, because there's no noun for it to substitute - am i right or not?

But there is a noun, "I'm not the first (person/man/women) you've been engaged to"

Originally Posted by moo-cow

6. "She does nothing but make scenes from morning till night."

don't we have to add the inflection s here?

No, the sentence is fine as it is. Make, not makes.

Originally Posted by moo-cow

7. if there's a sentence with a few homogeneous subjects expressed by infinitives should the form of the predicate be singular or plural?

If you are talking about sentences like "To speak, to write, and to read are all essential skills," then the verb should be in plural. However, a similar sentence with gerunds instead of infinitives ("Speaking, writing, and reading") would sound much better, IMO.

thanks for the replies guys
now i'd like to englarge a little bit on my last post...

1.

5. "... such a one as that."
we need to put a here, don't we? i think we do, but the whole phrase sounds kind of strange to me, so i decided to ask about it...

Got more context?

yes, here it is:
I would sooner die here, at your feet than see you married to such a one as that.

so is it ok with a?

2.
concerning punctuation rules - i'm more interested whether an average English-speaker observes (or at least tries to observe) them in everyday formal writing (e.g.: when making up a contract).

3.
"There is an enormous number of words and expressions ..."
will remember, but is the variant with are totally incorrect?

4.

But there is a noun, "I'm not the first (person/man/women) you've been engaged to"

so do you mean it's obligatory to say "the first one" here as well?
i'm asking because i saw this sentence in a Mark Twain book or somewhere and, as far as i remember, it was without one there

5.

If you are talking about sentences like "To speak, to write, and to read are all essential skills," then the verb should be in plural. However, a similar sentence with gerunds instead of infinitives ("Speaking, writing, and reading") would sound much better, IMO.

that was exactly what i meant, thanks again.

Like the other guys said, I'm not a grammar expert, but this is just my opinion on everything.

yes, here it is:
I would sooner die here, at your feet than see you married to such a one as that.

so is it ok with a?

Technically, I don't think anything is inherently wrong with this, although the phrasing is very over the top. A better way to say it would be: "I would sooner die here, at your feet, than see you married to one such as that/she/he".

2.
concerning punctuation rules - i'm more interested whether an average English-speaker observes (or at least tries to observe) them in everyday formal writing (e.g.: when making up a contract).

Yes, punctuation is generally observed, and definitely in formal writing such as essays for school, resumes, etc. However, some punctuation (like the semicolon for instance) is often misused or not used at all. But commas, periods, colons and the like are important, and native speakers may come across as uneducated if they are used improperly in writing (especially in things like your example of the contract). Hope that clears it up.

3.
"There is an enormous number of words and expressions ..."
will remember, but is the variant with are totally incorrect?

Honestly, in informal speech, nobody would ever correct you whether you used "are" or "is" here. Not 100% sure on what the truly correct verb is, but I believe "are" is correct grammatically because here, you need a plural verb as both "words" and "expressions" are plural.

4.
so do you mean it's obligatory to say "the first one" here as well?
i'm asking because i saw this sentence in a Mark Twain book or somewhere and, as far as i remember, it was without one there

Saying "the first one" is more common, but you don't need to add "one". Just "the first" is fine as well, albeit a bit more formal.

brandonp
thanks a lot!
think i understand everything now

one last thing
i made a short recording (mp3) to pratise my English pronunciation.
can anyone please listen to it and say whether it's generally all right or not?
the file is just one and a half MB so it won't take you long to download it.
here's the link:
http://www.zshare.net/download/59083952e31572cc/

Originally Posted by noheat

Warning: I am not a grammar expert, just a native speaker, so I could be technically wrong on all these questions.

"to going in for sports" doesn't sound right. How about: "Devoting your spare time to sports and physical training is essential"

noheat...

Just like you, I am a native speaker and not an expert; yet, I am wondering why you went with "is" and not "are" for the above sentance. As there are two items "sports" AND "physical training" would this not then be a plural sentance and require the "are" and not an "is"???


moo-cow....

"I have never learnt to read or write"
or
"I have never learnt to read or to write"

I rememebered this expression from reading Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice and pulled a copy off my shelf...

If I have wounded your sister's feelings, it was unknowingly done; and though the motives which governed me may to you very natuarlly appear insufficient, I have not yet learnt to condemn them. - Chapter 43

I also remember from the movie, yet not the book the line…

If I had ever learnt, I should've been a great proficient.

As P&P was first "appeared" in Great Britain in 1813, that might be why the term is a little out of date.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Originally Posted by noheat

"to going in for sports" doesn't sound right. How about: "Devoting your spare time to sports and physical training is essential"

noheat...

Just like you, I am a native speaker and not an expert; yet, I am wondering why you went with "is" and not "are" for the above sentance. As there are two items "sports" AND "physical training" would this not then be a plural sentance and require the "are" and not an "is"???

The verb "is" agrees with "devoting," not with "sports and physical training." "Devoting your time" is a gerund phrase acting as the (singular) subject of the sentence. (Devoting = gerund/subject; your time = direct object; to sports and physical training = indirect object.) Or more simply:

"Devoting your time [to anything] is important."
vs.
"Sports and physical training are important."

moo-cow

Your pronunciation is great! There are only two things I noticed on my first listen. "Transferred" is stressed on the first syllable, rather than the second. The "u" is "buffet" is pronounced with an "uh" sound rather than an "oo" sound. In other words, a short rather than a long "u" sound. But other than that, the rest was great. If anyone else wants to give it a listen though to try and catch anything I missed, please do.

Originally Posted by moo-cow

i made a short recording (mp3) to pratise my English pronunciation.
can anyone please listen to it and say whether it's generally all right or not?

It's excellent! Some very small things: "emPLOYees" and "TRANSferred." And just be aware, when you said "whole office," the OH in "whole" sounded a little like EH, which is getting close to "hell office"

In general? Quite good.

Ah yes, I meant to mention the pronunciation of "whole" as well. Although, from the sounds of it, hell office may have also been an accurate description as well.

TRANSferred

My dictionaries insist that the verb is "transFER", as opposed to the noun "TRANSfer".
What's the catch?

When the word is in noun form, the stress is always on the first syllable. As far as the present tense verb goes, the stress can change depending on the context it is being used in. The more common usage of the word will still have the stress on the first syllable. For example, if you were to say: "I am going to transfer you to another department", the stress would be TRANSfer.

I can only think of one instance where I would put the stress on the second syllable, and that would be if I were to say something like: "I would like to transfer this bit of knowledge to you". In this case, I would say transFER. Although, this is definitely not a common stress pattern, and I'm really not sure of the difference in semantics here.

thank you all for listening to my recording and correcting my mistakes!
will try to work hard on my pronunciation to polish it up