Could somebody please translate it into russian?
(Daughter is telling her father about what her mother told her)
- At first she told me you were dead. Then she said you might as well be.
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Could somebody please translate it into russian?
(Daughter is telling her father about what her mother told her)
- At first she told me you were dead. Then she said you might as well be.
It seems to me that the second "you" refers to the daughter.
Сначала она сказала что ты умер. Потом она сказала что я (=дочь) тоже могу умереть.
An interesting dilemma, by the way, if you choose "I" it's not evident if it refers to the mother or to the daughter, if you choose "you" - to the daughter or to the father. Of course, it's also direct/indirect speech thing.
That doesn't look quite right.
This one is tricky.
Friendy, I understand your suggestion that the second you might refer to the daughter, but I suspect you're wrong.
What's more, I can't understand how могу умереть can be 'might as well be dead'. Do you know the difference between 'might be dead' and 'might as well be dead'? It's rather difficult to explain.
I might try later. Much later :)
I assumed that "as well"="also" here since she was talking about the father's dearth.Quote:
Originally Posted by waxwing
:idea: могла бы умереть (=but somehow she managed to survive, for example the conversation is about a catastrophe) :?:
Yes, I thought so. That's not right. 'might as well be X' is a special phrase, here 'as well' is not with the meaning 'also'.
'Y might as well be X' ~ Y can be treated as X because, functionally, Y behaves like X.
Like I said, difficult to explain :?
I'll tell you what I think mum said in English and someone can tell us what that might be in Russian :)Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
The second 'you' refers to the father. So, the mother is very angry with the father.
The mother said to her daugther, "Your father is dead".
A moment later the mother said, "Well, if he isn't dead, he will by the time I get my hands on him. He's a lazy, good for nothing, loafer - when I get my hands on him he'll wish he was dead!"
The mother said to her daugther, "Your father is dead".
A moment later she said, "Well, if he isn't dead, it will be the same thing after I see him!"
The course I was on was sooooo easy that the certificate I got might as well be used as toilet paper.
The story was so difficult to understand that it might as well have been written in Russian.
I can't imagine that any of this helps....in fact I'm beginning to feel really faint, I'm starting to lose it, my grip on life is slipping, heeeellllllpppppppp it's getting so bad, I may as well be dead!!!!!
Сначала она сказала мне что ты умер. Потом она сказала что может быть ты будешь мёртв, потому что когда она найдёт тебя, она ударит ногой твою задницу.Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
Just an idea..... :o
Yes, I know that. Usually it's translated as "с тем же (с таким же) успехом" (in the examples Mike gave it fits perfectly) but I don't think this translation can be applied in our case.Quote:
Originally Posted by waxwing
I love mathematical explanations, thanks. :) Probably the difficulty here(so that the usual translation cannot be applied) is that the difference between X and Y is not so evident ("dead" is everywhere :) ).Quote:
'Y might as well be X' ~ Y can be treated as X because, functionally, Y behaves like X.
Thank you, Mike. Then it can be expresses, for example, with the following variants:Quote:
Originally Posted by майк
Сначала она сказала мне, что ты умер. Потом она сказала, что если ты не умер, то скоро это вполне может случиться. (if you are not dead soon you might be)
or
Сначала она сказала мне, что ты умер. Потом она сказала, что так было бы лучше для тебя. (it would be better for you(father) to be dead)
I also thought at first that there's something too complicated. Then I thought it as well might be like:
Она сказала, что ты умер. Ну, или всё равно что умер.
Oh, I didn't think it'll be so complex and didn't expect that it will be such a big discussion about it.
Thanks to all of you and specially майк for good examples, but there's another point (like Propp said): her mother doesn't care whether her father is dead or not. What do you think about it?
PS: I've been waiting for waxwing till he gets his explanations but it's improper for me to keep the silence any more.
PPS: may be it can help, this is the whole dialog:
Code:f Hey. Angela?
- You Roy?
f Yeah. So you're 14?
- Yep. So when did you get out?
f What?
- Of prison.
f I've never been in prison. Did your mom tell you that?
- At first she told me you were dead. Then she said you might as well be.
f I'm not dead. I'm in antiques.
- Yeah, that's what the doctor said on the phone. When he said that, Mom started to laugh.
Now we're talking. Nothing like a bit of context to, well :-) put it in context :lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
This is a small slice of a family story. The father is not living with the daughter. The daughter lives with her mother. The father has not been living at home to help the mother bring up their daughter: to help the mother look after the daughter over the past 14 years. "Then she said you might as well be" (dead) - The mother explains to her daughter that there would be no difference if her father were dead.
There are two main alternatives. In my previous answer I focussed on the sarcastic - the mother was saying, in effect, something like, "he will wish he was dead". In fact, the real context makes it clear that the mother is saying that the father "has been so useless that it would not make any difference if he was dead".
We cannot tell whether the mother cares about Angela's father or not. We just know that she thinks that he has been so useless over the years that it would make no difference if he was dead - I guess that means that she probably doesn't care about him. We'll have to ask the mother :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
"I'm in antiques" means that the father buys and sells antiques.
The last bit about the mum laughing on the phone is probably because the father was a thief and therefore, in his particular case, "to be in antiques" means that the father was (or is) a burglar (a criminal, a thief, who steals valuables from other people's houses).
Thanks for raising this one. It is really interesting to try to understand context and the use of words - fascinating stuff. I hope this helps - probably not. Keep asking for more confusion :o :!: :o
Now, I can explain everything about the doctor, but I have to run.....
LOL
майк, you're cool, dude!
Yes, the father didn't live with them but he didn't know that he had a daughter.
So it was their first meeting.
And you guessed right, he was a criminal, a cheater.
PS: I'm looking forward to a story about the doctor :)
That means that Propp's variant is perfect. :thumbs:Quote:
Originally Posted by майк
"What is this thing called love" .... What does it mean? - trickier than you think guys! tee hee.....Quote:
Could somebody please translate it into russian?
Let me have a try: "И что за штука, эта любовь" But that was an intuitive translation (and most likely it's not the only variant, depending on the context, intonation etc but I don't have time now), with explanation the things are much harder... maybe laterQuote:
Originally Posted by майк
Looks like it's just you and me Friendy :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Friendy
"What is this thing called love" is my favourite example of the problem of context and mutual understanding:
(1) "What is this thing called love" - Here is a deeply philosophical question about the meaning of love.
(2) "What is this thing called love" - a trivial request to find out what something is called. "Love" is being used here, as it often is the UK, to 'name' another person. As in: -
>In a cafe to a female waitress: "Alright Love ....I'll have a cuppa tea if that's okay".
>Lady shopkeeper talking to child buying sweets: "That'll be twenty pence then Love".
>Husband to Wife: "Leave the washing up, Love! I'll do it later" - You don't hear this one too often ;-)
Hope that wasn't too boring :lol:
"Love is more than just a game for two..." ("LOVE" song by Nat King Cole)Quote:
Originally Posted by майк
Just come to mind for some reason... :roll:
About the case (2): shouldnt' there be a comma before "love"?
Yep - You need a comma, context and cultural awareness to get to grips with that one :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
Typo: I notice, alexei, that you've got a errant apostrophe in shouldn't.
Without this comma it looks like an unfair trick! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by майк
Sure. Thanks.Quote:
Typo: I notice, alexei, that you've got a errant apostrophe in shouldn't.
There's a story in Russian where a king (or a judge, don't remember) writes a verdict:
"Казнить нельзя помиловать"
Here, one comma costs a human life.
@alexei: Да, ты прав! - Извини! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
Я люблю этот. Это намного лучше чем мой пример, потому что, не нужно использовать слово "love" разговорно!Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
Not to stray too far off topic, but is this quote from the movie Matchstick Men?
Exactly!
He didn't! - have a daughter I mean :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
Actually Roy was a "Con artist, a Flim Flam Man, a Matchstick Man"Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
Hey, watch this space, I'm gonna write it, right away - honest :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
Ok, let's say "He thought he has a daughter" what was the same to him because he believed that he has a daughter :)Quote:
Originally Posted by майк
Hm...Quote:
Actually Roy was a "Con artist, a Flim Flam Man, a Matchstick Man"Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
cheat: to trick or deceive someone so that they do not get or keep something they have a right to have
con artist: someone who tricks or deceives people in order to get money from them
Is there any difference?
You're late, it makes no sense now :wink:Quote:
Hey, watch this space, I'm gonna write it, right away - honest :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
Not really any big difference - you're not wrong :wink: but a few points: -Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
(1) In the film Roy actually said, "I'm a Con artist, a Flim Flam Man, a Matchstick Man...". He, amusingly, stresses the word artist to distinguish himself from an ordinary Con Man!
(2) You will rarely, if ever, hear the expressions 'Flim Flam Man' or 'Matchstick Man' in England.
(3) In England I hear the use of the word 'cheat', rather than 'cheater': "He's a cheat"; "She was a good player but she was a cheat"!
(4) The word 'cheat' is most often used for lower levels of criminal deception and behaviour. Children cheat playing games; Students cheat in their exams; and wives cheat on their husbands - (I don't mean, all children, and all students, and all wives, all the time!!!) - and old people are cheated out of their pension money by a con man or a fraudster - sometimes these fraudsters are apparently respectful Directors of apparently thriving businesses.
(5) I've no idea how this works in America, or any other English speaking part of the universe, but hope it's of some interest.
Damn :twisted:Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei
майк, thanks for this excursion into england and criminal cultures. It was really interesting! :)