Can you helo me?

Please, if you can, explain me some details about translations. :idea:

1.Недавно они были хорошими друзьями, но сейчас они видятся гораздо реже.

I translated it as:
Resently they were good friends, but they have seen much rare now.
But is it wrong? I was corrected:
Resently they used to be good friends but they have been meeting more and more seldom.

What sentence is more correct?

2.Мы знаем друг друга с тех пор, как учимся в одной группе.

What sentence is correct?
- We have known each other since we have studied in the same group.
or
- We have known each other since we have been studying in the same group.

Please explain me this!
Thank you. :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nuta

Please, if you can, explain me some details about translations.

1.Недавно они были хорошими друзьями, но сейчас они видятся гораздо реже.

---

'Not long ago [until recently] they were good friends, but now they see each other much more rarely.'

Quote:

---

2.Мы знаем друг друга с тех пор, как учимся в одной группе.

What sentence is correct?
- We have known each other since we have studied in the same group.
or
- We have known each other since we have been studying in the same group.

---

Your second sentence is perfect.

Thank you!
Why can't I say
We have known each other since we have studied in the same group
The action is in the present.
I understand when it is used Present Perfect Cont. with usual verbs, but the verb "to know" is a state verb, isn't it? Can we use Present Perfect with it?

I think you are slightly confused about the rule ..

Like this:

for stative/'state' verbs, we don't usually use the continuous aspect.
So for verbs like:
know, like
love, understand

we don't usually use the cts tenses:
present continuous, past continuous, future continuous
present perfect cts, past perfect cts, future perfect cts.

There are exceptions to this rule, but let's not get sidetracked.

As for your question about these sentences:
1. We have known each other since we have studied in the same group.
2. We have known each other since we have been studying in the same group.

It seems to me that this question is very difficult. I actually don't think either of these sentences are correct. Let me explain why.
I would prefer:
We have known each other [ever] since we started studying in the same group.

This is the normal way in which a native speaker would emphasise that the word 'since' is used for time purposes, and not for causal purposes (i.e. since meaning 'because of').
If, as I think, you want to use 'since' in the time sense, then what follows 'since' should be in the past simple.

On the other hand, if you want to use 'since' meaning 'because of', which I strongly doubt, then the first part of the sentence should be in present simple:
We know each other since we've been studying in the same group / We know each other since we study in the same group (other variants possible..)

By the way, in general, the choice between present perfect and present perfect continuous is very subtle, since it depends on whether you wish to emphasise completion or process.

e.g.:
1. I have painted the room (the painting is finished)
2. I have been painting the room (look! my shirt is covered with paint! - you don't know whether I've finished or not).

Hmm long .. I hope it helped a bit :)[/u]

Thank you very much!
Sometimes I think, that written language is very different of spoken language. Because sometimes we study such strange rules and constructions which are hard to understand and it's difficult to use them in the speech. I suppose, that not all the grammar rules are so useful in the speech.
But our Institute curriculum is constructed in the way that we should study everything and the teachers try to teach us as mucn as they can and they don't think if we'll use it or not.

And what a nonsense! :?
I have three English in the Institute - Practise of speech, Practise of grammar and Phonetics. And the thing that connects these subjects is that they are in English and about English. And our Phonetics is a striking thing! At first we had one teacher, whom we liked a lot and she told us interesting and useful things. Her lections were really interesting. Then she couldn't teach us and she was changed by another teacher.
When she began to teach us, we desided, that it wasn't English at all, because her pronounsation is rather strange for us. She began to tell us the rules which were differ from our previous teacher's rules.
Why? The same language, the same subject, but another teacher....... And another Phonetics too?
It's hart to understand. :roll:

Can you tell me, if Russians came to the UK or to The USA,can they understand the speech and will they be understood by the people? Or it is different things - English, that we study here and English that people speak there?

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh

Tomorrow I'll have my Phonetics lesson.......

And another question........
(Am I too noisy?) To tell the truth, when I began to write this post I wanted to write a little, but suddnly some questions arose in my mind and I didn't find the better idea than to write them.......
Sorry! :?

Well.......
I'd like to know if such idioms are used in English:
Noisy Parker
Sour grapes
To be in one's element
To be one's cup of tea?

There are a lot of idioms in English, but if everything is used?

Thank everybody, who read this and who answer my questions!
You are the best! :)

Thank you very much!
Sometimes I think, that written language is very different of spoken language. Because sometimes we study such strange rules and constructions which are hard to understand and it's difficult to use them in the speech. I suppose, that not all the grammar rules are so useful in the speech.
But our Institute curriculum is constructed in the way that we should study everything and the teachers try to teach us as mucn as they can and they don't think if we'll use it or not.

And what a nonsense! :?
I have three English in the Institute - Practise of speech, Practise of grammar and Phonetics. And the thing that connects these subjects is that they are in English and about English. And our Phonetics is a striking thing! At first we had one teacher, whom we liked a lot and she told us interesting and useful things. Her lections were really interesting. Then she couldn't teach us and she was changed by another teacher.
When she began to teach us, we desided, that it wasn't English at all, because her pronounsation is rather strange for us. She began to tell us the rules which were differ from our previous teacher's rules.
Why? The same language, the same subject, but another teacher....... And another Phonetics too?
It's hart to understand. :roll:

Can you tell me, if Russians came to the UK or to The USA,can they understand the speech and will they be understood by the people? Or it is different things - English, that we study here and English that people speak there?

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh

Tomorrow I'll have my Phonetics lesson.......

And another question........
(Am I too noisy?) To tell the truth, when I began to write this post I wanted to write a little, but suddnly some questions arose in my mind and I didn't find the better idea than to write them.......
Sorry! :?

Well.......
I'd like to know if such idioms are used in English:
Noisy Parker
Sour grapes
To be in one's element
To be one's cup of tea?

There are a lot of idioms in English, but if everything is used?

Thank everybody, who read this and who answer my questions!
You are the best! :)

Well, just a few more ideas:

1. Re: your concern about being understood and understanding in the UK/USA.
My only suggestion is this: if you don't have access to native speakers, you can at least watch movies in English. Real life is rarely as difficult as that (and in real life conversation, you can interact). If you can understand 80-90% of that, you should be fine in an English speaking country.

As to your own pronunciation etc., I don't know how we could make any general statement. If it makes you feel better, I have met many graduates here whose English is perfectly intelligible. In other words, their pronunciation, although clearly Russian, never obstructs communication. A few have a vocabulary that would rival the average 16 year old native speaker. A very, very few have only the slightest trace of an accent - but they are usually the ones who have spent a year or more abroad.

What are the main problems?
Idiom
Register
Collocation
oh and ..
Articles :twisted:

probably that's not a good list, it's just what came to mind.

2. The list of idioms you gave (I can only comment from the British perspective really):
Noisy Parker - should be nosy
this is quite old fashioned, and only British (I think?)
Sour grapes
yep it's used
To be in one's element
yep, it's used
To be one's cup of tea?
old fashioned, rarely used except in a slightly sarcastic way nowadays. Very British.

In general the problem with idioms is that by the time they make it to Russian textbooks, they are heavily out of date. I met a Polish student in London who was very frustrated after having learnt a whole book full of these things, only to realise on arrival that they were all nearly useless!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waxwing

It seems to me that this question is very difficult. I actually don't think either of these sentences are correct. Let me explain why.
I would prefer:
We have known each other [ever] since we started studying in the same group.

This is the normal way in which a native speaker would emphasise that the word 'since' is used for time purposes, and not for causal purposes (i.e. since meaning 'because of').
If, as I think, you want to use 'since' in the time sense, then what follows 'since' should be in the past simple.

---

You're talking style here, waxwing. Grammatically, there is nothing wrong with 'We have known each other since we have been studying in the same group.' It's inelegant at worst.

But in which sense do you take the word 'since'?

In the temporal sense. I quite agree that 'ever since' is better.

Well maybe I'm wrong, but I think if you look in any grammar book, it'll tell you that 'since' (temporal) should be followed by a phrase representing a definite point in the past. This can be either a date, time, or a phrase in the past simple.

I've known him since 1995.
I've known her since she visited us on my birthday.
The 'ever' is optional of course.
Here, "since 1995" answers the question "since when?". We can't use the present perfect to answer that question because that tense describes the indefinite past.

"I've known him since we have eaten breakfast together"

Well what the hey, I'm repeating myself. I said all this above so I won't continue.

What did I miss? <scratches puzzled head> :?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waxwing

What are the main problems?
Idiom
Register
Collocation
oh and ..
Articles :twisted:

---

Sorry for the off-topicness, but what are Register and Collocation?

As I think, Register is a word order in the sentense, when you list smth.
I know the rule, that it is important to follow spetial order in the description of age, hight and build, hair, face and complexion, eyes,clothes....
E.g. Describing hair: quality + length + texture + style + colour.
She has got long wavy brown hair.

Descrobing eyes: quality + size + shape + colour.
Lisa used to have beautiful green eyes.

BTW, Is it very important to follow this order?
I suppose, that your eyes won't change the colour if you say " grey deep-sat eyes" instesd of "deep-sat grey eyes"..... :?:

And Collocation is word combinations, may be phrasiological units.......? :?:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waxwing

Well maybe I'm wrong, but I think if you look in any grammar book, it'll tell you that 'since' (temporal) should be followed by a phrase representing a definite point in the past. This can be either a date, time, or a phrase in the past simple.

I've known him since 1995.
I've known her since she visited us on my birthday.
The 'ever' is optional of course.
Here, "since 1995" answers the question "since when?". We can't use the present perfect to answer that question because that tense describes the indefinite past.

"I've known him since we have eaten breakfast together"

Well what the hey, I'm repeating myself. I said all this above so I won't continue.

What did I miss? <scratches puzzled head> :?

---

As I understood, It isn't wrong to say "We have known each other since we have studied in the same group."?

According to me, that sentence is indeed wrong. Not slightly wrong, but absolutely wrong.
Joysof, apparently, doesn't agree.

As to register, I'm afraid you got that wrong Nuta. Register is best explained with examples. I want to write another post about this but I'll do it later.

I got confuses a bit with the sentenses.......... :cry:

I'll be watiting for your post about Register! :)
Thank you for help!

I'm not an expert, but I think that register means style of address when communicating, e.g.:

In a formal essay:

Studies showed that X was not in fact the case

In a personal letter:

They've shown that X isn't true.

Sorry, those examples aren't very good. No doubt someone with a larger brain will oblige soon.

BTW, the word you were thinking of when you descrbed register was syntax, I think.

OK. I know how to speak and write correctly, but I don't know a lot of grammatical terms such as "register" and "collocation." Now that I know what you're talking about, I agree that they can be hard to learn.

O.K. Thank you for the explanations!
Oddo, you say, that the word order in the sentesne, when you describe people's appearence is sintsx. And is it important to follow this word order.
As I wrote your eyes won't change the colour if you say " grey deep-sat eyes" instesd of "deep-sat grey eyes"..... :?: [/quote]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nuta

And is it important to follow this word order.

---

It depends what you mean by 'important'.
If you say 'a white beautiful house' instead of 'a beautiful white house', you will be understood. But it will sound very unnatural.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nuta

As I understood, It isn't wrong to say "We have known each other since we have studied in the same group."?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waxwing

According to me, that sentence is indeed wrong. Not slightly wrong, but absolutely wrong.
Joysof, apparently, doesn't agree.

---

Just to clarify, because confusion shortens lives:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joysof

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nuta

2.Мы знаем друг друга с тех пор, как учимся в одной группе.

What sentence is correct?
- We have known each other since we have studied in the same group.
or
- We have known each other since we have been studying in the same group.

---

Your second sentence is perfect.

---

''Second sentence..''.

Apologies for effectively misquoting you there joysof :oops:

If you go back to my original set of comments, you'll see I didn't like that second sentence either (again, in my opinion, it's not correct English). I've explained all this before, but as far as I'm concerned, it is not appropriate to use either present perfect or present perfect continuous after (temporal) since. If you want to use since in the causal sense, then .. well, one thing at a time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waxwing

Apologies for effectively misquoting you there joysof :oops:

---

You're forgiven. :)

Quote:

---

If you go back to my original set of comments, you'll see I didn't like that second sentence either (again, in my opinion, it's not correct English). I've explained all this before, but as far as I'm concerned, it is not appropriate to use either present perfect or present perfect continuous after (temporal) since.

---

I gladly defer. It sounded fine to me, but you're the one with the qualifications and I have never, in fact, studied English grammar. Relying on one's instincts with these things is perhaps not always enough.