Thread: work for americans in Russia - prestigious-->humble

Basil77, I guess the topicstarter doesn't mean the luxury property, I was serching for a flat about a year and a half ago and it was about 18-20k for a 1-room flat conviently located near the МКАД (Moscow ring road) - Tushinskaya/Shukinskaya/Mitino subway stations. I guess the same price will be for the flats in the place like Lyublino, though I don't like the southern part of the city at all. Those in the area of Prospect Mira were a bit more expensive and and for 35-40k it was possible to find a 2-room flat , that is about 1150$

The only problam is that we don't earn enough to ren flats even for 800$ a month

Originally Posted by Hoax

Basil77, I guess the topicstarter doesn't mean the luxury property, I was serching for a flat about a year and a half ago and it was about 18-20k for a 1-room flat conviently located near the МКАД (Moscow ring road) - Tushinskaya/Shukinskaya/Mitino subway stations. I guess the same price will be for the flats in the place like Lyublino, though I don't like the southern part of the city at all. Those in the area of Prospect Mira were a bit more expensive and and for 35-40k it was possible to find a 2-room flat , that is about 1150$

The only problam is that we don't earn enough to ren flats even for 800$ a month

The question was about "clean and renovated" flat with 2 beedrooms and a livingtoom. The closest analog I can think of is трёшка в доме бизнесс-класса с хорошим ремонтом и мебелью. So I posted the prices for such type of flat. The flats you described are usually located in very ugly houses wich halls and elevators are covered with graffity and piss, garbage near house's front doors etc. Flats for rent in such houses usually has very ugly if any furniture, very dirty and with cocroaches.

Originally Posted by Basil77

I still stand that average renting price in Moscow for a decent 3-rooms flat would be no less than $1700 a month. A friend of mine inherited 2-rooms flat in Kuzminki from his grandmother (it's an ordinary flat in a panel house buit in early 80s) and he leases it for 50 000 roubles (about $ 1600) a month. He says there isn't a problem at all to find a customer for such a price.

Thanks for your super-informative posts!

This would be an absolutely acceptable rent for me, on my current London salary. No problem, I could be more.
However, I doubt I'd get the salary I'm getting now, if I was a Russian person doing this job in Moscow! So it's not really comparable. Probably, I'd get about half and then I that rent would be a stretch.

What is included? Heating, Water, electricity, gas? Any taxes for just living?

I took a 1 bedroom flat after returning to London. I really don't like this building, and the plumbing is terrible. There is a mobile phone mast on the roof, very bad for health.
But I'm saving money and at least I am in one of the best areas of town. It sounds like Moscow is worse than London, but probably not by much.

I often compare with Sweden, and Sweden has the same Wild West situation with rental flats that Moscow seems to have. People get/got rental contracts from the state but there isn't enough supply so the system is corrupt.

The housing styles in Sweden are much more similar to Russia than the UK, but the equivalent of "Khrustevska" are a bit better quality, I think. Not much though. They had a plan to build 1 million flats in 5 years, and the result is quantity over quality. Only immigrants and very poor people live there now.

I stayed in a flat of the post war Stalin era when I visited Minsk. 2 rooms, good sized and high ceilings, facing the street. It wasn't a grand building, but it was very nice indeed. If I could live like that in London I'd absolutely love it. I probably could afford a mortgage for a similar type of flat in Stockholm, but never in London. Very good location too, next to the Peace monument. Definitely no noise from the neighbours and it had been fully renovated to an excellent standard. I think it had original parquet floor. No fireplaces. The plumbing was good too.

You entered the house from a nice yard behind the building, with a little park, playground etc. But for such a nice building it had an very ugly front door (painted steel) and the stairs were spartan and quite ugly. Not vandalised, just ugly. I have no idea how the owner got hold of the flat, and I am pretty sure he charged me at least double the real rent for staying there. The other inhabitants were locals, but at least half the cars parked outside had German or Russian license plates. No idea what the deal was with that.

I have a positive view of Russia as a place to live - if you have money! And also Belarus and to a lesser degree Ukraine (saw a lot of poverty there). However, these are terrible places to be poor! What if something happened....
I think it would be really scary to live somewhere that has literally NO social security and people are totally dependent on friends and family if something happens. I don't know what the exact healthcare situation is.
Moscow property prices will probably continue to go up, up, up!

Originally Posted by Basil77

The question was about "clean and renovated" flat with 2 beedrooms and a livingtoom. The closest analog I can think of is трёшка в доме бизнесс-класса с хорошим ремонтом и мебелью. So I posted the prices for such type of flat. The flats you described are usually located in very ugly houses wich halls and elevators are covered with graffity and piss, garbage near house's front doors etc. Flats for rent in such houses usually has very ugly if any furniture, very dirty and with cocroaches.

Something should be done. People who have to live in buildings like that may end up being depressed or becoming alcoholics. It's disgusting. It's anti-social behaviour. I am all in favour for really hard punishments for people who vandalize public property.

As for me, if I ever lived in Russia, it probably wouldn't be in Moscow -- it just doesn't really attract me.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Something should be done. People who have to live in buildings like that may end up being depressed or becoming alcoholics. It's disgusting. It's anti-social behaviour. I am all in favour for really hard punishments for people who vandalize public property.

Majority(at least half) of Russian population lives in places like that. It is really favorable for philosophical thoughts, maybe that's what's called "Russian soul"

You hit bullseye about depression and alcoholism. I just remembered a joke from Soviet time about alcoholism

Наш папа - трансформатор
220 получает, 127 отдает,
А на остальное гудит!

Originally Posted by Hanna

As for me, if I ever lived in Russia, it probably wouldn't be in Moscow -- it just doesn't really attract me.

Moscow is the only place in Russia where you can get somewhat acceptable living conditions
In other places people survive, not live: buying new clothes is considered a big deal, a car is a luxury object, you need to retrench everything for a year to afford somewhat decent vacation, most people cannot afford to buy a house, to buy a flat you need two persons working full time (salary of one person is not enough to cover mortgage), etc.


If I'm not mistaken average salary of a well educated person working in Moscow is around $2000 per month(after taxes), however if you go away from Moscow to other regions, the salary will drop to $300-$1200, depending on the place. Food and clothes cost about the same as in Moscow, the only difference is real estate prices
Marriage is often a way to survive (because both people work)
You can do the math

Most Russians don't give a damn about "free will", "human rights", "spying government" and other stuff like that, their minds occupied by more down-to-earth problems like what to eat today, how to pay your bills, how to make lives of your kids a little easier and brighter
I don't think you'll like to live there, Hanna, you are from another planet called "European civilization". China would probably understand Russia better than Europe.

PS:
In other thread I said that you should move to Russia because they don't care about your fingerprints and I see you considering it. That was a joke, Hanna.
To give you a straight answer on this: Hell no f-ing way you should move to Russia or even consider it. Count your blessings and thank Christ, Buddha, Allah and Ganesha that you don't live in Russia this time.

PPS:
I really hope that Russia will be better in time, because I really miss Russian culture, language and my friends but that probably won't happen in my lifetime, sorry for the sorrow post

Originally Posted by Doomer

Majority(at least half) of Russian population lives in places like that. It is really favorable for philosophical thoughts, maybe that's what's called "Russian soul"

Moscow is the only place in Russia where you can get somewhat acceptable living conditions
In other places people survive, not live: buying new clothes is considered a big deal, a car is a luxury object, you need to retrench everything for a year to afford somewhat decent vacation, most people cannot afford to buy a house, to buy a flat you need two persons working full time (salary of one person is not enough to cover mortgage), etc.


If I'm not mistaken average salary of a well educated person working in Moscow is around $2000 per month(after taxes), however if you go away from Moscow to other regions, the salary will drop to $300-$1200, depending on the place. Food and clothes cost about the same as in Moscow, the only difference is real estate prices
Marriage is often a way to survive (because both people work)
You can do the math

Most Russians don't give a damn about "free will", "human rights", "spying government" and other stuff like that, their minds occupied by more down-to-earth problems like what to eat today, how to pay your bills, how to make lives of your kids a little easier and brighter
I don't think you'll like to live there, Hanna, you are from another planet called "European civilization". China would probably understand Russia better than Europe.

You're right man, leftists can understand what sh*tty life feels like for others, but not for themselves.

Originally Posted by Doomer

I don't think you'll like to live there, Hanna, you are from another planet called "European civilization". China would probably understand Russia better than Europe.

PS:
In other thread I said that you should move to Russia because they don't care about your fingerprints and I see you considering it. That was a joke, Hanna.
To give you a straight answer on this: Hell no f-ing way you should move to Russia or even consider it. Count your blessings and thank Christ, Buddha, Allah and Ganesha that you don't live in Russia this time.

PPS:
I really hope that Russia will be better in time, because I really miss Russian culture, language and my friends but that probably won't happen in my lifetime, sorry for the sorrow post

I take your point on this Doomer. Yeah, I certainly would not want to live in Russia on a teacher's salary, or a some average administrators salary. I realise Western Europe is better off in this respect. I don't necessarily want to live there at all, but I wouldn 't rule it out either. It's got some qualities that I like; climate, nature, people (well, some..), and cool with such a big country. St Petersburg is less than an hour by plane from where I grew up, but like 5 times bigger or something like that.

I have no idea what to make of the current government in Russia. How democratic they are, or aren't... and whether this matters a lot or not. How corrupt they are or aren't (seems to me, probably "a lot) and what their vision for the future is.

Here is why I think there might be hope for the future though:
Russia is very rich in natural assets and has a well educated population. If people can be convinced to stay in the country, if corruption can be reduced and if foreign companies are not allowed to exploit natural assets without re-investing locally (as happens in Africa etc) then the prognosis should be good. Another 10-15 years maybe.
Also, Russia isn't living above its means in the same way as Western Europe is. The debt could backfire on us any time. There are more potential Greeces, and they are in a worse shape than Russia right now.

Since Putin will probably stay in office for another 8 years, I hope he uses that time to really clamp down on corruption and stop anti-social behaviour.