About the three different names...

In Russian I've read that there is the first name, father's name and surname. I was wondering if one of the last two can be used as a sort of second first name.
I'm probably not making sense, here, In English The first name and middle name is usually chosen from either names the parents like or family members or something but those two names are basically open for anything and the last name is always the family name.
Does this happen in Russian, where there is more than one 'open' name, or is it always original name, father's name, family name?
Thank you!

Given name, Patronymic, Surname

Say Васильий Пупкин has a son. He wants to name his son Иван.
Иван Васильевич Пупкин

Or maybe he has a daughter. He wants to name her Ольга.
Ольга Васильевна Пупкинa

If you're ever talking to your elder or superior you refer to him/her by name and patronymic (имя очество)

So you'd call him Иван Васильевич. Or, for short, Иван Василыч (sp?).

never use the second name alone, if used, always use it after the first name. You have five options:

1: just first name Ivan
2: First name and second Ivan Ivanovich
3: just last name Mr. Kalashnikov
4: just first and last name. Ivan Kalashnikov
5: All three: Ivan Ivanovich Kalashnikov

Isn't it Василий (without the ь)?

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Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

never use the second name alone, if used, always use it after the first name. You have five options:

1: just first name Ivan
2: First name and second Ivan Ivanovich
3: just last name Mr. Kalashnikov
4: just first and last name. Ivan Kalashnikov
5: All three: Ivan Ivanovich Kalashnikov

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Well there is a story by Chekhov called Ionych, in which the character is known by his patronymic. I think I read at the time that was a common thing to do.

Maybe it's not a modern thing to do, but it's best not to use the word "never", vinnie, unless you are 100% sure on the facts.

Better to say "to my knowledge you don't use just the second name." :P

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Originally Posted by TATY

Isn't it Василий (without the ь)?

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It's one of those new-age spellings. His parents didn't want him to just be another Вася Пупкин.

I think we need a sticky thread for this forum that explains the "nameology" of Russian. Not that people would actually pay any attention to it...

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Originally Posted by BlackMage

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Originally Posted by TATY

Isn't it Василий (without the ь)?

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It's one of those new-age spellings. His parents didn't want him to just be another Вася Пупкин.

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I did a good search for your spelling and there were a number of hits, but maybe they are all typos.

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Originally Posted by TATY

I did a good search for your spelling and there were a number of hits, but maybe they are all typos.

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Yes, I know I typoed. However, I'm trying to get out of it by making up a story.

You know, I was 100% on my facts... but I guess even then you can be wrong! :wink:

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Originally Posted by TATY

Well there is a story by Chekhov called Ionych, in which the character is known by his patronymic. I think I read at the time that was a common thing to do.

Maybe it's not a modern thing to do, but it's best not to use the word "never", vinnie, unless you are 100% sure on the facts.

Better to say "to my knowledge you don't use just the second name." :P

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Well, using patronymic name standalone implies familiar form of address to a person. So, it is ued only in colloquial speech. It can be also friendly when it's your friend you want to address to in fun or mockingly.

- Петрович, мы тебя уже заждались.

- А не позвать ли нам ещё и Саныча? (Саныч = very short form of Александрович)

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Originally Posted by Rtyom

(Саныч = very short form of Александрович)

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Сан Саныч and Пал Палыч were friends in an old textbook I saw once.

I wonder what they were doing. :)

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Originally Posted by Rtyom

I wonder what they were doing. :)

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водку пили.

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Originally Posted by BlackMage

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Originally Posted by Rtyom

I wonder what they were doing. :)

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водку пили.

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So thought I. :lol:

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Originally Posted by BlackMage

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Originally Posted by Rtyom

I wonder what they were doing. :)

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водку пили.

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Then there must have been one more guy.

The reader was the third.

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Originally Posted by Rtyom

The reader was the third.

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Сан Саныч, Пал Палыч and БлэскМэйдж Давидыч are all best friends.

Василий => Васильевич => colloquial form Василич
Павел => Павлович => coll. Палыч
Иван => Ивановна => coll. Иванна - but not all can be shortened this way., eg. Дмитриевна => Дмитри[в]на

BlackMage: you are БлэкМэйдж

BlackMage, is that character from an original Nintendo game?
I recall him from my childhood memories... hm... but I cannot remember which game. Either Final Fantasy, or there was another one-- perhaps it was the latter.

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Василий => Васильевич => colloquial form Василич

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hehe, thank you all! I'm much more clear on the names now. It's amazing how much culture and and history you learn throug hlearnign a language, makes sense but still!

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Originally Posted by detail

BlackMage: you are БлэкМэйдж

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Actually he's Дим Димыч.